A Roman helmet from insula Batavorum a.k.a the Netherlands

[Leon the Batavian]

Hello I am new to this forum but not new to RTW and EB. I like the mod allot and play it quiet often.
I developed a great fascination for ancient history and history in general over time from when I was little.

I used to have an old history book about Romans occupying the Netherlands and I was always fascinated by this helmet. Its more of Ceremonial helmet then it is a battle helmet by the looks of it.
In 1910 it was found in a Swamp near a place called Deurne in the Netherlands. Anyways I would just like to share it with you.

See picture.

[Ludens]

Welcome to EB, and welcome to the .Org. I hope you will enjoy your stay here.

[Genava]

It's a helmet dated of 319AD.
Re-enacted here:
http://www.armae.com/antiquite/Casqu..._de_Deurne.htm

The antiquity catalogue:
http://www.armae.com/Zenglish/greek_...uity_frame.htm

The "Herculiani" re-enacted this helmet but I can found the photo on their website... Only on this book:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...GL._SS500_.jpg

And on this photo of the group "Letavia" (but it's a Herculiani's member which carrying it):
http://storage.canalblog.com/11/00/246496/44582634.jpg

Some archeologic objects on the website of "Letavia":
http://letavia.canalblog.com/albums/...ues/index.html

[Leon the Batavian]

Thank you Ludens and thank you Genava. Some nice pictures there about this type of helmet.

Great website for history and a great game this is.

[Phalanx300]

http://www.romanarmy.net/batavianhelm.htm

Also a nice article on Batavian used helmets during the Roman time.

[Weebeast]

Cool pictures thanks for sharing.

I appreciate them enough buuuuut I'd be lying if i said I like 'em personally. They look very barbarian and not even in a Gaulish/Celtic way. I guess I'm just too old school. Either the design has meaning or has nothing at all. Look at the cheap McDonalds' plug on the first one!

[Fluvius Camillus]

Hi Leon,

Thank you for sharing, in our country also this came up in the news: recently there was also a roman road uncovered in the province of Limburg.

For us dutchmen 19-12-09:
http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/p..._in_limbu.html

If I translate that to English:

At excavations in Grubbenvorst, Limburg, parts of a road between Nijmegen (Noviomagus) and Maastricht (Mosa Trajectum) have been found.

Archeologists came across a broad road with stones. The Limburgian channel L1 reported that the road connected the Roman places of Blerick and Cuijk with each other.

The archeologic investigation is going on in the neighborhood of Raaieind, between the Maas river and the A67 (modern highway). A total of 140 testtrenches are being digged. In the future there has to come a harbor and a sand and gravel processingfacility.

~Fluvius

[Cyclops]

What a beautiful image in the OP. Golden objects speak loudly to my heart: when I studied Archaeology at Uni many of the staff members admitted to feeling the lure of gold too, even the ones studying stone age cultures (boy they must've been frustrated). One fellow was an Egyptologist, and told me that (in a certain way) one bit of gold was more thrilling than a ton of iron.

A mate of mine recently showed me an Athenian tetradrachm from about 480 BC, a small solid cookie of a coin. Just feeling the weight of it in my palm made me think of grimy oarsmen grinning in unlikely victory, of ambitious Themistocles and bounty of the mines, of too many things. It was like holding a pebble prised from the highway of history.

[Leon the Batavian]

Nice you all enjoying this topic. It is truly a nice piece of history dug up 100 years ago.

[DionCaesar]

It was found not 20 km from the place where I live :). I've seen the replica, and I too was fascinated by it. At first I thought it wasn't Roman, but I now discovered it came from the period after the peak of the Roman Empire.

[alexanderthegreater]

Nice helmet. I hope theres a batavian unit in EBII. Caesar mentioned them. Tacitus mentions their apparantly fine horsemanship. Batavian Cavalry? Apparantly the Batavi were part of the Chatti. Maybe recruitable in the chatti home province?
They also made a large contribution to the Roman army, since the poverty of their land meant that taxing them wouldnt be worth it.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Nice helmet. I hope theres a batavian unit in EBII. Caesar mentioned them. Tacitus mentions their apparantly fine horsemanship. Batavian Cavalry? Apparantly the Batavi were part of the Chatti. Maybe recruitable in the chatti home province?
They also made a large contribution to the Roman army, since the poverty of their land meant that taxing them wouldnt be worth it.

Soldiers & Ghosts by J.E. Lendon also mentions Batavians, where they are described as the strongest auxilliries in the Roman Imperial Army.

~Fluvius

[Phalanx300]

Well the Batavians are very latecomers so I think we have to stay with the Chatii as the best replacement.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Well the Batavians are very latecomers so I think we have to stay with the Chatii as the best replacement.

Yes but still, I don't think the Batavians were a bunch of wussies 200 years earlier, so they could still be in the timeframe, they are not ordered auxilliries yet.

~Fluvius

[Olaf The Great]

Soldiers & Ghosts by J.E. Lendon also mentions Batavians, where they are described as the strongest auxilliries in the Roman Imperial Army.

~Fluvius

I own this book, but never got around to reading it.

[Phalanx300]

Yes but still, I don't think the Batavians were a bunch of wussies 200 years earlier, so they could still be in the timeframe, they are not ordered auxilliries yet.

~Fluvius

My point was that the Batavians are part of the Chatii. They are Chatii. At that time frame it would be exactly the same units.

Though that also means that those Chatii war customs also went with the Batavians with possibly painting the hair red when going to war(perhaps to please Donar who also had an red beard and was the main god of the Batavians?). And that also combined with excellent horsemanship and the possiblity to cross rivers with their entire army.

Yes an deadly force.

[Leon the Batavian]

I will put my warpaint on just in case.

[Leon the Batavian]

Totally offtopic:

But I have to say this because in one way it annoys me to see such lack of historical knowledge. Its very weird to read so many replies and post like these when it comes to Roman Cohort vs Greek Phalanx discussions or similar things.

And I must say those Greek fanboys (no offense, I also like those factions, in fact I like all of the factions) are the least educated of all on history and what really happened.
I think that 300 movie really has a bad influence on youth and their knowledge on history. All they see is some loudmouth bodybuilders acting tough (a.k.a. Spartans) and they all think those were the only badasses from antiquity.

A typical reply from such a person I mentioned.

IOANNIS2 (2 years ago) Show Hide

the fact is that rman legions never beat greek phalanx in to a battle,yes finally we lost the war but the falangits (macadonians or greek colonies in italy) never suffered a defet from the legions to a close combat

I can understand when you are Greek you say things like this but come on history tells you something different.
Grass is green not blue. 1 + 1 = 2 not 3. And I know the replies like these are made by people who don't really know anything about real history. But there are too many of such replies.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted this but really what is wrong with some people talking history on whatever topic.

[Phalanx300]

Totally offtopic:

But I have to say this because in one way it annoys me to see such lack of historical knowledge. Its very weird to read so many replies and post like these when it comes to Roman Cohort vs Greek Phalanx discussions or similar things.

And I must say those Greek fanboys (no offense, I also like those factions, in fact I like all of the factions) are the least educated of all on history and what really happened.
I think that 300 movie really has a bad influence on youth and their knowledge on history. All they see is some loudmouth bodybuilders acting tough (a.k.a. Spartans) and they all think those were the only badasses from antiquity.

A typical reply from such a person I mentioned.

IOANNIS2 (2 years ago) Show Hide

the fact is that rman legions never beat greek phalanx in to a battle,yes finally we lost the war but the falangits (macadonians or greek colonies in italy) never suffered a defet from the legions to a close combat

I can understand when you are Greek you say things like this but come on history tells you something different.
Grass is green not blue. 1 + 1 = 2 not 3. And I know the replies like these are made by people who don't really know anything about real history. But there are too many of such replies.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted this but really what is wrong with some people talking history on whatever topic.

I gues you're posting in the wrong topic here?

[Leon the Batavian]

You could be right but I just dont want to pollute the forum that much with 10 of my posts....... I know its completely offtopic here.

[Phalanx300]

Well you can also see it differently, at least they are interested in History, either by Nationalism, movies or other things and will get to learn how it really is.

So yeah, I don't think 300 has an bad influence, since without it those same people wouldn't even be thinking about History.

[Leon the Batavian]

Thats one way of looking at it and I think its the right way. It gets them started to learn...... but I hope then they go the full length and really start at learning it all.

Nationalism isn't my cup of tea I see myself more as an world citizen and therefor I have a different approach on history. I think.
You can be proud of things but you should stick to the facts. Or at least .... is history really real ?

[Fluvius Camillus]

Well you can't take an example like that and put them as a stereotype for all Hellene fans. Romans and Hellenes both have uneducated screaming people. You can't take those as a representative for the whole group. I remember someone entering the discussion about Rome vs. Alexander the Great and he started screaming that the legion was invincible in every way, ruining the nice discussion that was going on.

Just like you I like every faction. And from my time on the forum here I can say that both sides are generally well educated on history.

[Leon the Batavian]

@ Fluvius that is also true both camps have people who read history the way they like to read it.

Too bad.