Netherworld II [Concluded]

[Joooray]

But, how sure are we of YLC's claims that Double A and Andres have no roles. Surely they may simply have not done anything that night, and thus YLC's block would be rendered useless? Plus the recruiter only appeared later on. Perhaps they could not use their ability until a set point in the game? That would put Andres and Double A back into suspicion.

That's what I've been saying all along, but nobody listened to me. Now it will be decided amongst you two and I'm frankly not sure who to trust and who not at this point. One of you could be guilty, but if we are unlucky, you are indeed both innocent.

[naut]

Gah. I shall reveal if this makes it any easier. I am Pegasus. CCRunner's steed. I was tasked to protect our vigilante, but now he is gone I am essentially a named townie. YLC must have stopped me protecting CCRunner one night, thus seeing I had a role. If I was anything more he would surely have come after me to be voted, as he did with those he blocked and found to be killers.

If Joooray can indeed protect himself, then there may be another day phase, if we do not get the Mafia today and he kills tonight, there will be 3 people left. Joooray, a townie and the Mafia. So my understanding he would not be able to win yet.

[Andres]

Regardless of role, Joooray is innocent for the same reason I am: he didn't do a last minute vote switch last round.

That leaves Double A, Psychonaut and Sigurd.

We have YLC's list. As TinCow pointed out, the recruitment of YLC was in the write-up. There have been no other write-ups of recruitments, so it's pretty safe to assume that YLC was the only recruit in this game. Idem dito goes for me, btw.

That leaves Sigurd and Psychonaut. Out of those two, Pscychonaut seems the most scummy one, for the reasons I stated above (post #1243).

[naut]

Except I am pro-town. I'm a harmless winged pony, who likes nothing more than sugar cubes and apples.

Andres, why are you going after me so relentlessly? Is it because you have now realised that if both Joooray and myself are still alive you will no longer out-number the town next round. I'm sure it has occurred to you that tonight you will now have to use your kill on one of us to stand a chance against the town.

[Andres]

Except I am pro-town. I'm a harmless winged pony, who likes nothing more than sugar cubes and apples.

You claim to be a protector who can exclusively protect one player. And that one player got night killed...

It's not exactly convincing.

Andres, why are you going after me so relentlessly? Is it because you have now realised that if both Joooray and myself are still alive you will no longer out-number the town next round. I'm sure it has occurred to you that tonight you will now have to use your kill on one of us to stand a chance against the town.

No, it's because I think you're scum, for reasons stated before.

Your nonsensical role claim makes my suspicions even stronger.

[naut]

Gah. The town has lost, there is no way I'm going to get you to realise I am pro-town. In fact you probably are trying to lynch me for that exact reason. I tried my hardest. Good luck Joooray. Well played Andres/Sigurd/both of you.

I have a feeling Choatix was correct to assume that both are Mafia.

[Joooray]

Well, it will most probably either come down to a toss, or Double A shows up and make his choice.

[Andres]

Gah. The town has lost, there is no way I'm going to get you to realise I am pro-town. In fact you probably are trying to lynch me for that exact reason. I tried my hardest. Good luck Joooray. Well played Andres/Sigurd/both of you.

I have a feeling Choatix was correct to assume that both are Mafia.

Scummy, scummier, scummiest.

The role you claim seals it for me, Pscychonaut. You won't fool me.

Chaotix, the man who claims he could have revived two players? The last one who claimed such a role was TinCow in Netherworld I. It didn't do town much good to believe that.

I urge all townies to vote Psychonaut.

[Andres]

Well, it will most probably either come down to a toss, or Double A shows up and make his choice.

Or you could just change your vote to Psychonaut. Or do you have reasons to believe his role claim?

[Sigurd]

Gah. The town has lost, there is no way I'm going to get you to realise I am pro-town. In fact you probably are trying to lynch me for that exact reason. I tried my hardest. Good luck Joooray. Well played Andres/Sigurd/both of you.

I have a feeling Choatix was correct to assume that both are Mafia.

Well... you are wrong, at least on my part.

Personally, I think it is Joooray. And since there have been no new recruitment since YLC I doubt we are facing more than one killer.

But I am assuming here... The Mafia knows they have to mix lies with truth to play the psychology game with us as they have been doing the last rounds. The question is which are truths and which are lies.

I deduce that since the Mafia has been cracking hard on the YLC list of innocents, it could be the list is in fact genuine.
We have to make some assumptions to be able to filter out players.

Now we have two claims of pro-town roles in the very end game. Normally this should indicate that at least one is a fake.
We have the claimed innocents and the pro-town roles, which leaves only me ... a normal townie. The only thing I was sent by the host in this game was the information that the game had started.

We have a horse and a doctor who has been unlucky with his choice of protections.

Nice stalemate there guys... and yes Joooray is off the hook this round, as any of us as soon as we unvote, will break the tie.

[Andres]

Joooray is most definitely innocent...

[Sigurd]

Joooray is most definitely innocent...

How do you know for sure? Yes... Psychonaut is in trouble with his steed of CCRunner claim, who was a serial killer?.
I am just impressed with the voting deflection of Joooray, but that again can be attributed to his role and wanting to live another day to make a difference.
OR
He is the recruiter and have been doing other things these last nights.

[Joooray]

How do you know for sure? Yes... Psychonaut is in trouble with his steed of CCRunner claim, who was a serial killer?.

He was a vigilante, with an obligation to kill or at least that's what he claimed. If he hadn't killed, he would have turned in some kind of tragedy when being lynched.

Or you could just change your vote to Psychonaut. Or do you have reasons to believe his role claim?

Locking at the above, I have little not to believe him, there are a few weird roles in this game. Why not a role that has to be killed first in order to kill the one he is protecting.

The only weird thing is, that CCRunner was killed anyway, but that might be some kind of retaliation ability Beskar had because all of his children were killed.

[Andres]

He was a vigilante, with an obligation to kill or at least that's what he claimed. If he hadn't killed, he would have turned in some kind of tragedy when being lynched.

What's the difference between a "vigilante with the obligation to kill" and "a serial killer"?

Locking at the above, I have little not to believe him, there are a few weird roles in this game. Why not a role that has to be killed first in order to kill the one he is protecting.

The only weird thing is, that CCRunner was killed anyway, but that might be some kind of retaliation ability Beskar had because all of his children were killed.

Exactly. Why adding a protector to a serial killer if that protector is unable to protect?

I'm not buying his role claim.

[Andres]

How do you know for sure?

Just look at the previous round. No mafioso would have taken that risk. Joooray could have easily switched his vote to me to avoid the lynch. Regardless of role claims and speculations or what not, that is a strong argument in favour of Joooray's innocence.

It has to be Psychonaut.

[Beskar]

Joooray is innocent, but psychonaut's claim was just pure scum.

I am willing to accept the list's claim on Double A's innocence, as he hasn't really paid any attention to it.

I suspect Andres a lot, for his aggressive pressing of the list, even though it was given by a mafia, which just suggests his name was added on it, to make him look innocent.

Sigurd has been acting scummy for unknown reasons. Maybe he just felt like being scummy because he feels left out?

[Joooray]

What's the difference between a "vigilante with the obligation to kill" and "a serial killer"?

I thought of a serial killer as a killer who could not choose the target freely, like in pirate ship mafia. But you are right, both are serial killers.

Exactly. Why adding a protector to a serial killer if that protector is unable to protect?

I'm not buying his role claim.

As I said, he might have been able to protect, but in this concrete situation this was overwritten by a revenge mechanism, the leader of the first mafia group, Lamia, had. I don't entirely believe his claim, I just don't want it to be brushed over without thinking about it.

[Joooray]

Just look at the previous round. No mafioso would have taken that risk. Joooray could have easily switched his vote to me to avoid the lynch. Regardless of role claims and speculations or what not, that is a strong argument in favour of Joooray's innocence.

It has to be Psychonaut.

I just had a look at the messages TC send me during the night CCRunner was killed. YLC told TC back then that he will be using his ability (redirecting an order or something) on Psychonaut that night. Thus his claim he was unable to protect CCRunner might be true after all.

[Andres]

I just had a look at the messages TC send me during the night CCRunner was killed. YLC told TC back then that he will be using his ability (redirecting an order or something) on Psychonaut that night. Thus his claim he was unable to protect CCRunner might be true after all.

Assuming Psychonaut was able to protect CCRunner, how likely is it that a serial killer is pro-town?

In the Capo games, you have Lucas able to protect their Don. They also have the ability to kill.

[Sigurd]

I just had a look at the messages TC send me during the night CCRunner was killed. YLC told TC back then that he will be using his ability (redirecting an order or something) on Psychonaut that night. Thus his claim he was unable to protect CCRunner might be true after all.

Right... so this was a coordinated pro-town attack on the serial killer/Vigilante CCRunner?
You are either making the case look worse for yourself or undermining Psychonaut. Wanting to stay alive in the next round also it seems.

[Andres]

Wanting to stay alive in the next round also it seems.

That's not necessarily scummy behaviour. Certainly not when there are only 5 players left.

[Sigurd]

That's not necessarily scummy behaviour. Certainly not when there are only 5 players left.

What I meant was - He is trying to establish trust with the remainder players, so they won't lynch him in the next round.
His best chance is to lynch me this round and then blame all on Psychonaut in the next round. If he had stuck to his Psychonaut vote - he would have been in a tie.

Knowing that Double A might not be around to put the deciding vote - He opted for a different solution - a tie between myself and Psychonaut. Had I not created the tie, I would have been lynched already. But he needs a culprit in the next round as well... and Psychonaut is the perfect choice.

[Joooray]

Assuming Psychonaut was able to protect CCRunner, how likely is it that a serial killer is pro-town?

In the Capo games, you have Lucas able to protect their Don. They also have the ability to kill.

He was neutral as far as I know and opted to work for TC. Of course there is always the possibility the protector turning evil after the death of his protégé, but that would imply a humanoid form of Pegasus that I'm not aware of.

BTW: What is your basis for protecting Sigurd that vigorously? Is it really only based on passed gaming experiences with him? Because that is not much of case in his favor.

Knowing that Double A might not be around to put the deciding vote - He opted for a different solution - a tie between myself and Psychonaut. Had I not created the tie, I would have been lynched already. But he needs a culprit in the next round as well... and Psychonaut is the perfect choice.

Unfortunately I'm not that good a mafia player.

Right... so this was a coordinated pro-town attack on the serial killer/Vigilante CCRunner?
You are either making the case look worse for yourself or undermining Psychonaut. Wanting to stay alive in the next round also it seems.

At that point Atheotes, YLC and CCRunner had revealed to TC. Atheotes claimed to be a vigilante with task to kill Hades and being the only one able to kill him. TC suspected YLC to be Hades. CCRunner claimed to be the vigilante riding the horse that attacked him before, he assumed TC would be protect and thus choose him as a target. TC arranged the following: Atheotes would target YLC, CCRunner would target Atheotes and YLC would target Psychonaut, as there was some question about his, because there was no kill by the guy with the shield and the sword night one when TC blocked Psychonaut. But this was due to CCRunner being on holiday during the first few turn.

Looking at this setup, Psycho might indeed been unable to protect CCRunner that night.

Just a quick question to Psychonaut: What's the name of the person riding you? Surely you have been told his name in your role PM.

[naut]

CCRunner was Bellerophon.

[Sigurd]

Unfortunately I'm not that good a mafia player.

You could have fooled me...

At that point Atheotes, YLC and CCRunner had revealed to TC. Atheotes claimed to be a vigilante with task to kill Hades and being the only one able to kill him. TC suspected YLC to be Hades. CCRunner claimed to be the vigilante riding the horse that attacked him before, he assumed TC would be protect and thus choose him as a target. TC arranged the following: Atheotes would target YLC, CCRunner would target Atheotes and YLC would target Psychonaut, as there was some question about his, because there was no kill by the guy with the shield and the sword night one when TC blocked Psychonaut. But this was due to CCRunner being on holiday during the first few turn.

I thought WE:D was killed by a man with a sword and shield in round 1? ...
checking... Yes a player with a lance and a shield. Discarding the lance and opted for a sword to do the actual kill.

I don't know... You seem to have been in the loop (informed minority).

[TinCow]

At that point Atheotes, YLC and CCRunner had revealed to TC. Atheotes claimed to be a vigilante with task to kill Hades and being the only one able to kill him. TC suspected YLC to be Hades. CCRunner claimed to be the vigilante riding the horse that attacked him before, he assumed TC would be protect and thus choose him as a target. TC arranged the following: Atheotes would target YLC, CCRunner would target Atheotes and YLC would target Psychonaut, as there was some question about his, because there was no kill by the guy with the shield and the sword night one when TC blocked Psychonaut. But this was due to CCRunner being on holiday during the first few turn.

Looking at this setup, Psycho might indeed been unable to protect CCRunner that night.

[Andres]

BTW: What is your basis for protecting Sigurd that vigorously? Is it really only based on passed gaming experiences with him? Because that is not much of case in his favor.

Because Psychonaut seems a better lynch.

Then again, it bothers me that he doesn't seem willing to let you go while it's pretty obvious you're innocent.

If it weren't for Psychonaut ridiculous role claim, I would switch my vote to Sigurd.

[Andres]

Was CCRunner pro-town or a serial killer (other mafia family?)

[TinCow]

Am I right in thinking that this round is over and we're just waiting on a 'khaan write-up?

Not being able to talk freely is killing me... this has been a good end game.

[Joooray]

I thought WE:D was killed by a man with a sword and shield in round 1? ...
checking... Yes a player with a lance and a shield. Discarding the lance and opted for a sword to do the actual kill.

I don't know... You seem to have been in the loop (informed minority).

That is true, but I can only repeat what CCRunner told TC via PM. I think it was suspected, that the W_E was killed by the person that later continued killing with the help of dead players.