The Geert Wilders trial

[Fragony]

Funny, you missed out these quotes.



And you later started going:

No one is ignoring it, you are just painting it that only muslim youth are a problem while everyone else is the wiser.

You must get confused because I go in with a stretched leg, not my problem if that is what you read, I am used to lefties having a conversation with their dogma's when pavlov says DANCE.

[Beskar]

You must get confused because I go in with a stretched leg, not my problem if that is what you read, I am used to lefties having a conversation with their dogma's when pavlov says DANCE.

Funny you should say that, did the Bell at the Mosque just ring? You are salivating again.


Edit: Yes, probably a good idea to lock this topic.

[Fragony]

Funny you should say that, did the Bell at the Mosque just ring?

Only on friday and mosques don't have bells, I guess you have no idea what you are talking about.

edit: go Geertje, Halsema of the greens admittingly ain't too bad either https://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrij.../0/bUAwYBtK3W4

[The Wizard]

Well I have to agree with Beskar, first white kids can't do no wrong and it's only the non-whites, then when pressed suddenly only a portion of the immigrant kids are the problem and beating a mailman to death is an exception.

That's not going in with a stretched leg, that's just backing up and realizing you were wrong.

[Fragony]

Can't agree with someone on how other people think. Bringing up a very isolated case and presenting it as an argument is grasping at straws at best, I can bring you plenty statistics of how much more criminal muslim youth is, pick your country and I will deliver np, we all know that is a fact. There has never been a racist murder in the Netherlands, I would go so far that there aren't any serious racist incidents in the Netherlands at all. And yeah, I find it pretty hard to believe white kids ever gave you any trouble. Not for being jewish at least. Why don't you go all orthodox and take a stroll, I give you 10 minutes at best.

[Beskar]

I can bring you plenty statistics of how much more criminal muslim youth is, pick your country and I will deliver np, we all know that is a fact.

Apart from the balant obvious socio-economic divisions, you are now trying to argue they are some-how more criminal. Go to any council estate in the United Kingdom, and get swarmed by creamy white track-suit cladded youth. Funnily enough, even in basically 'all-white' areas, council estates (where the low-income working class/non-working class dwell) has significantly highest crime-rates around. Also, funnily enough, poor immigrants end up in these areas and assimilate into that culture. So any statistics would be like what racists use in America, where they pick all the 'black' people in the poor income ghetto's and compare them to suburban upper-middle class 'white' kids to say they have an evil gene.

I find it pretty hard to believe white kids ever gave you any trouble. Not for being jewish at least. Why don't you go all orthodox and take a stroll, I give you 10 minutes at best.

Wait... what does going orthodox jewish got to do anything?

[Fragony]

Wait... what does going orthodox jewish got to do anything?

Try it, you will love it

Apart from the balant obvious socio-economic assumtions, you are now trying to argue they are some-how more criminal

Fixed

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/20...s-role-in.html

Psychologist Nicolai Sennels concludes from talks with young suspects of light-crimes that young Muslims see themselves as victims and lack respect for society.

According to Nicolai Sennels there it too much talk and victimization of the individual and too little focus on cultural problems, when the Copenhagen Municipality deals with youth of Muslim background.

[Beskar]

Apart from the balant obvious socio-economic assumtions, you are now trying to argue they are some-how more criminal

Fixed

Apart from the fact it is spelled "assumption", you are actually incorrect, it is not an assumption, it is a fact. I can guarantee there are plenty of Sociology/related peer-reviewed journals on the matter. Your own ignorance doesn't mean something is incorrect.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I can bring you plenty statistics

Then do bring up some statistics. Here you go, Google is your friend and statistics prove Fragony is always right about everything:

More than half of young Dutch men with Moroccan backgrounds in Rotterdam have had problems with the police. Their Antillean, Surinamese and Turkish counterparts also figure highly in the latest report on crime in the city. Criminology professor Frank Bovenkerk calls his findings alarming, but in his farewell speech at Utrecht University said, “It’s not due to ethnic backgrounds”.

New crime statistics show an alarming overrepresentation of ethnic groups.

An alarming overrepresentation then. What is the reflex of the political-academic class to this? Twofold, both of what Fragony argues: they get their knickers in a twist, and so, firstly, make the unsubstantiated reflexive claim that 'alarming overrepresentation of ethnic backgrounds is 'not due to ethnic backgrounds'. and secondly, they try to 'solve this problem' by finding means to ban registration of ethnicity in crime statistics:

Crime figures are normally compiled on a yearly basis. However, Professor Bovenkerk has looked at criminal behaviour spanning a number of years, between the ages of 18 and 24. His approach has resulted in an entirely different outcome. The professor linked information based on ethnicity to crime figures.
This is not permitted in the Netherlands, but the police department, youth care organisations and advisory groups in Rotterdam have been allowed to make the link, thanks to a special legal construction introduced in 2002.

[...]

There is resistance to Rotterdam’s policy of registering the ethnic background of ‘high-risk’ youth. The Aruban - Antillean organisation MAAPP, for example, criticises the practice. Chairman Raymond Labad says, “Ethnic registration has been banned since World War II.” His reference may be a bit charged, but his fear of discrimination and stigmatisation is clear.

In local Rotterdam as well as in national politics, ethnic registration is highly disputed. The minister responsible for integration, Eberhard van der Laan, feels “a principle discussion must take place based on constitutional and international agreements”. A national privacy ‘watchdog’ is looking at whether Rotterdam has actually broken the law.

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/fa...ighly-disputed


My master, for a reward, I demand another girl.

[Fragony]

Apart from the fact it is spelled "assumption", you are actually incorrect, it is not an assumption, it is a fact. I can guarantee there are plenty of Sociology/related peer-reviewed journals on the matter. Your own ignorance doesn't mean something is incorrect.

I can screw up pretty badly in 6, (7 if I flatter myself) languages how about you. Probably just one. I will probably beat you in that single one as well.

language, the last stand.

edit, thx Luigi



The bright side

[al Roumi]

An alarming overrepresentation then. What is the reflex of the political-academic class to this? Twofold, both of what Fragony argues: they get their knickers in a twist, and so, firstly, make the unsubstantiated reflexive claim that 'alarming overrepresentation of ethnic backgrounds is 'not due to ethnic backgrounds'. and secondly, they try to 'solve this problem' by finding means to ban registration of ethnicity in crime statistics.

What exactly are you saying Louis? That ethnic backgrounds are a deterministic factor in the overrepresentation in crime stats or that they are circumstantial?

I should imagine that any sane person, or one equipped with a minimum of rudimentary intelligence would find it hard not to agree with Beskar that it is social class and conditions which is the determining factor of a particular segment of society's presence in crime statistics. Except when it comes to Belgians, they are all theives.

[Fragony]

What exactly are you saying Louis? That ethnic backgrounds are a deterministic factor in the overrepresentation in crime stats or that they are circumstantial?

Of course they are circumstantial, the circumstances of Islam being a shield against equal treatment of all citizens.

theives <-- see Beskar, too easy

[al Roumi]

Of course they are circumstantial, the circumstances of Islam being a shield against equal treatment of all citizens.

theives <-- see Beskar, too easy

I should use the spell check too...

I don't really understand the second part of your sentence: "the circumstances of Islam being a shield against equal treatment of all citizens."

I meant circumstantial as in "not enough to prove anything", e.g. circumstantial evidence in a murder trial -as opposed to a good solid piece of evidence which clearly inciriminates the accused.

[Fragony]

I should use the spell check too...

I don't really understand the second part of your sentence: "the circumstances of Islam being a shield against equal treatment of all citizens."

I meant circumstantial as in "not enough to prove anything", e.g. circumstantial evidence in a murder trial -as opposed to a good solid piece of evidence which clearly inciriminates the accused.

I don't need a spell-checker.

It's pretty straightforward what I mean, the Islam has a special place.

[Ser Clegane]

Due to there being new advances in the trial, I will allow this thread to re-open, but I want everyone to understand the following conditions:

1) Moderators will take a zero tolerance policy to anything even close to racism and personal attacks on members.

2) The discussion must be limited to progress of the trial and the implications of it.

3) The discussion shall not touch on Wilders' personal background, unless it is relevant to the above discussion. This has already been discussed to death in this thread and is the reason for many of the borderline posts.

4) Any future locking of this thread will not be reversed, unless there is a very good reason for it.

So play nice everyone and have a good, clean discussion.

I do not think that condition 2) is still met and we are at least on the line to fail on condition 1)

Time to close this.

Thanks for the contributions