Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
Just because Germany wasn't completely broken up into small little states does not mean that it did not have large territorial losses. It's overseas colonies were large and important, in Germany's eyes colonies gave it it's place under the sun. Once again, just because it wasn't the most unfair does make make it moderate or fair, as pointed out earlier the Germans agreed to an armistice and then were left out of the creation of a peace treaty, if the Germans had submitted to unconditional surrender as the Axis powers did in WWII it would not be the same but because they were in a position of weakness they had sign the peace treaty.
I don't really find this to be a persuasive argument for harshness considering that Britain, as a victorious power, and the victorious power which had been continuously actively fighting for the longest, lost most of our overseas territories after WW2, and the trading base that was the basis of our power. Germany were in no shape to significantly continue resistance by the time the armistice was agreed, and the subsequent treaty reflected their lack of power, just as Brest-Litovsk reflected Russia's lack of power to resist anything Germany might wish to impose on them. Such is war. The later rise of the Nazis was due to two factors. Firstly, the worldwide depression, whose cause had little to do with Versailles. Secondly, the myth that the German Army hadn't been beaten, but was sold out by the civilian government. This second point would have been argued whatever the terms of the treaty, simply because the Allies treated the Germans as the defeated (which they were), while the Germans deluded themselves that they hadn't been beaten.

From all the accounts I've read, the Germans in WW2 had a similar attitude, and if peace had been concluded while they were still in Belgium and Poland, they would have kept a grudge against the Allies, and looked to avenge their so-called defeat in the next war. This arrogance was only knocked out of them by taking the fight into Germany, and showing them they were indisputably the losers of the war.