Woohoo! Go, Scott Brown.

[Aemilius Paulus]

One more thing.... this is too funny... I just have to ask. Where are all of these right wing militias organizing and planning and such?

I live in the South. You know, the heart of militant right wing-ism... or so they say. We've got a place in Tennessee and one Alabama. You would think I'd see them out... marching... organizing... being all right wingy and evil... In the 11 years I've been here, not a sighting yet. I even drove through a Tea Party rally earlier in the year. Strangely, they all had hair on top of their heads and there was not a Swastika tatoo or a firearm to be seen! And in Alabama too! Crazy, I know.

So where are they? I might just like to join one.. sounds fun! You get to march around and play with guns and talk about how much you don't like Obama... right up my ally! Sure you can find them on the internet.. but you can find anything on the internet. I want to see these massive militia groups out organizing in my community!

Nice reductio ad absurdum... As a matter of fact, Alabama is not bad at all in this regard. Not according to both ADL and APLC (as well as their magazine, Intelligence Report, which monitors radical groups across the US).

As I said, even the StormFront members fit rather poorly into the stereotypes. And if they are smart, they will not wave around swastikas or such. Nor even their own site has swastikas on it. Maybe in it, but not on it. Militia movements exist, alright, and they are doing well nowadays. Their anti-government, anti-tax, anti-gun control platform is none too radical, and it appeals to most sensible Republicans. Now, the degree of weapons stockpiling and survivalist rubbish is off-putting, but that can be toned-down voluntarily to make a better presentation. Very few of the militia members will strut around saying 'I am a part of the militia movement'. It is not that simple, and nothing is black and white.

EDIT: Knowing that PanzerJaeger and Vuk are the most ardent conservatives here, to put it nicely, they are in a poor position to protest too much. Especially without offering any facts. I know at least some militias and Neo-Nazis are involved in the Tea party movement. It is only logical - and I already said the same would happen on the left side of the political spectrum. I have been on the actual Stormfront forums. I will link to the teabagger threads if you wish, where so many say they will attend, and debate on how to push their agenda. Gun shows, I read, used to be the prime recruiting places for such groups. Now the tea-party protests are proving to be the stuff of the dreams IRL to the far-right organisations. Wit all this, it is up to you to prove me wrong.

EDIT2:

AP, Lemur, do you have no low?

Call me low, I can take that, especially from my opponent, but I would tread more carefully by Lemur, as his contributions to the Backroom are immense, and his reputation is solid.

Really, you don't agree with someone so you resort to insinuating that they are racists?

When did I say that? Militias are not necessarily racist, and that is very rarely their main platform, or even their platform at all. They do not love the minorities, as a slight understatement, but they are not Stormfront or National Alliance. As for the Neo-Nazis, they want to take part in the movement, and they do so, but their influence is negligible compared to militias. I am sorry, Vuk, but how can you deny that at the very least some of the Tea party people are not far-right?

You two should work for MSNB. On second thought don't, you are probably too radical for them. :P

The first suggestion is fine. The second, I suggest you rescind :P. I am centre-left. You are, well, I do not need to say what you know yourself. I was a Republican when I came to the Backroom. But eventually I became disgruntled with their [close very intimate] ties to the Religious Right and left. McCain-Obama election was quite a tough choice for me, as I had more respect for Obama's ability, but at the same time more respect for McCain's platform. I sided with McCain, but then regretted that and switched to Obama, a few months after the election.

Nor is Lemur far-left, but that is up to him to answer - or not answer at all.






EDIT3: Somehow, I have the feeling neither of our smilies (:P) is sincere...

[PanzerJaeger]

I'm sorry. I really don't mean to be so flippant, but this all reads like a bad diary at the Kos.

First, Lemur subtly links the Tea Party movement with Stormfront, while leaving just enough wiggle room to escape such a charge if need be. Just for fun and giggles, mind you. Then comes the predictable hand wringing about those evil right wing militias who apparently have enormous political power and influence... leading to such completely ridiculous statements such as:

but the militia movements literally organised the teabaggers, so, or at least played a good part.

And, of course, when questioned about such a claim, we're left with vague claims of "I just know they are involved", "they're hiding amonst us!" and my personal favorite "Ive seen threads on Stormfront man, I've seen threads"!!

[Aemilius Paulus]

And, of course, when questioned about such a claim, we're left with vague claims of "I just know they are involved", "they're hiding amonst us!" and my personal favorite "Ive seen threads on Stormfront man, I've seen threads"!!

OK, I can retract the claim about the role of the militias, but you still have a large amount of the radical right among the teabaggers. Laugh all you want, but the Tea-Party activity on the Stormfront is considerable. I have to go no, but I will provide some links to those discussions later.

[Subotan]

AP, Lemur, do you have no low? Really, you don't agree with someone so you resort to insinuating that they are racists? You two should work for MSNB. On second thought don't, you are probably too radical for them. :P

So a reverse argument by association? The Tea Party movement is a mass right wing populist movement. It is highly likely that groups which thrive on right wing populism, such as white nationalists, Stormfront etc. are bound to target the Tea Party movement. Whether they have had any success, I have no idea, but there is certainly cause for concern, and sticking your fingers in your ears for political points is reckless.

[Centurion1]

QUOTE]Interesting. But the context matters. Very much so. For one, no-one denies or finds any shame in the fact that soul-food is one of the things representing the African American culture and community. Secondly, no comparisons to FOX in this case are valid. FOX has earned its reputation well, as did MSNBC. FOX is well-known for its uncomfortable relations with the minorities and the concept of multiculturalism. Even their prime figure - Bill O'Reilly is notorious for instances of intolerance too many to count by now.

You have to understand that when a person or a company has a long record of such things, it is closely scrutinised and cannot afford to do much. Such is the nature of life, and this is only fair. A person who is well-known for his/her acceptance of multiculturalism, for his/her tolerance, for the advocacy of the minority rights - such a person is allowed looser conduct. This is often instinctual at times. Everyone make mistakes, and the people who have a long history of such mistakes are the ones who get slammed on the wrists for making another such transgression.

FOX lost their credibility a long time ago, and it shows little signs of attempting to regain any of it. MSNBC is biased, notably so, but it more or less accurate and well, most Orgahs know what I mean when I say there is a difference between MSNBC and FOX.

[/QUOTE]

you have got to be ******** me. Name the event where FOX was racist. Because they have anti illegal immigration feelings. two of my aunts married mexicans and i dislike illegal immigration.

you are basically reading a little book of liberal ideology AP and its is very obvious. oyu can claim you are moderate and i believe you but you need to reread what you just said.

Have you been to a tea party rally. I have and i saw no swastika's or guns. Is disliking the president a crime. In fact i was with many of my fathers friends and their families. Yes that's right and we must all be scum of the earth for protesting.

Lemur that is total bull. That is a weak connection. hey guess what i get when i google barrack obama. I get links to the militant black panther websites. Do i think Obama is a black panther no because i dont make ridiculous assumptions about people.

And AP do not compare black civil rights to Gays. If you know many blacks resent this comparison. I think the way gays are treated is orrible in some cases but the plight of the African american and the Homosexual is far different as one prominent black comedian once said, "at least a gay can hide in the closet we just get blacker when we try."

And stop calling the tea party movements teabagging anyone associated with american slang knows how derogatory a term that is. I dont walk around insulting left organizations with derogatory terms.

Ermh, I thought you were more or less moderate... Whatever, he is indeed quite liberal for a GOP member. Which of his stances do you particularly oppose? Oh, and a shame it was that McCain had to run against Obama. Had he ran against some other Democrat, I would have voted for McCain instead, despite being a Democrat myself. Then again, the prospects of McCain handling the foreign policy frighten me...

I am on certain social issues he is not fiscally conservative enough for me.

Republicans are not known for their kindness towards blacks or minorities. Not since the Southern Strategy, and some instances before. Even the pride of the GOP achievements for the black cause, the emancipation of the slaves, was applied for practical reasons, applied to first only the Southern states, and was instituted by a racist, in the time when racism was becoming less and less acceptable in the ranks of the intellectual elite.

Do you want to take a **** on my face while your at it. Your telling me Democrats cultivate the minority vote for the love of minorities. That is a totally pragmatic decision and they do so to get minority votes. Look at the pot calling the kettle black.

As I said, even the StormFront members fit rather poorly into the stereotypes. And if they are smart, they will not wave around swastikas or such. Nor even their own site has swastikas on it. Maybe in it, but not on it. Militia movements exist, alright, and they are doing well nowadays. Their anti-government, anti-tax, anti-gun control platform is none too radical, and it appeals to most sensible Republicans. Now, the degree of weapons stockpiling and survivalist rubbish is off-putting, but that can be toned-down voluntarily to make a better presentation. Very few of the militia members will strut around saying 'I am a part of the militia movement'. It is not that simple, and nothing is black and white.

Teapartyers (i understood you said militias but if the militias are in charge of everything) are stockpiling weapons now. please give me the links to this. Is owning a shotgun for hunting stockpiling weapons then cause arrest me and throw me in jail. This barely deigns a response.

So a reverse argument by association? The Tea Party movement is a mass right wing populist movement. It is highly likely that groups which thrive on right wing populism, such as white nationalists, Stormfront etc. are bound to target the Tea Party movement. Whether they have had any success, I have no idea, but there is certainly cause for concern, and sticking your fingers in your ears for political points is reckless.

There are self avowed terrorists and other undesirables all over democrat politics.

And by the by Rush Limbaugh is not a membe rof the FOX News Team.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Keep things civil folks. Frequent use of *'d words is often a sign that you are getting a touch too passionate about an issue. Take a moment to re-read calmly before hitting send.

[Lemur]

What a frothy state I've whipped up with a simple Google search. Neato. Yes, it's true, you can put together whatever Google search you like and come up with interesting results (for example, "GOP old white men" scores me over 10 million linkies, so I win the internet). But the truth of the matter is that far-right separatist and white-supremacist groups are very happy about Glen Beck and the Tea Party. Whether they should view these developments in such a positive light is up for debate.

I would tread more carefully by Lemur, as his contributions to the Backroom are immense, and his reputation is solid.

Nonsense. The only thing of any significance that I've done in this forum was founding the News of the Weird thread. All else is chaff.

-edit-

Mr. Olbermann, you have a show to get ready for! What are you doing messing around on a gaming forum?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when wingnuts need to conflate me with a talking head on MSNBC, I'd rather be the lesbian. I'll let you take your own pick between Coulter, Limbaugh and Beck.

And it's a darn good thing there's no racism or race-baiting on the rightwing—that's purely an invention of socialist eco-terrorist progressives.

[Xiahou]

I'm surprised Lemur hadn't picked this one up yet....



Shocking, to say the least.