Departed Dethy Mafia II [Concluded]

**Sasaki Kojiro** · 03-09-2010, 15:52

Running through the possibilities, I think I was right and we should have just lynched from the start. The investigation thing was fun though.

I don't see anyway to legitimately determine who the mafia is based on investigations. Almost a 1/3 of them are going to be falsified.

**Methos** · 03-09-2010, 22:23

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I don't see anyway to legitimately determine who the mafia is based on investigations. Almost a 1/3 of them are going to be falsified.

Whoever the mafia is they've been paying attention to our discussion as well, so why not look for what is missing. Look at the victims and who they were supposed to investigate and/or who that would have helped had they're results been known.

**Double A** · 03-09-2010, 22:58

Alright, I got guilty results on Sasaki... I'm probably paranoid, since Sasaki or one of the dead guys is apparently the loony.

By the way, I'm normally at school from ~7am to ~3:30pm EST, which is why I didn't post until just now.

**Secura** · 03-09-2010, 23:11

Hmmm, that would make sense, Double A. I had actually believed that I might have been the Insane Cop, which would mean that Sasaki is innocent and you are guilty.

However, if we agree that you're innocent and thus you are the Paranoid Cop, that would automatically make Methos the Insane Cop, as he got a guilty read on you. That would mean that I am, in fact, the Normal Cop, with my results stating that you are innocent. From there, the results speak for themselves; johnhughthom would be the Naive Cop and Sasaki would be the mole.

vote: Sasaki Kojiro

**Double A** · 03-09-2010, 23:17

Or that he's the naive, john was normal, and you are lying... both seem plausible to me.

You both seem scummy to me, but I haven't played many games with you, and Sasaki always acts scummy.

I'm just gonna wait and see what Sasaki has to say about the matter.

**Secura** · 03-09-2010, 23:34

I believe that Sasaki is the scum and have done so for the entire course of the game; I had some doubts, especially when he was the only person to claim an innocent result, because at that point I ruled him out entirely and thought it might've been you. However, he found the flaw in my thinking and actually reaffirmed, in my mind, that he could be the mafia after all.

At the very start of the thread, Sasaki pounced on my posts which were, to me, not really that scummy at all; it was my attempts to defend these posts that ultimately cast me in a scummier light. The extent to which he has maintained that I am the guilty party, even before yourself or Methos had posted at all, did little to ease my beliefs. Personally, I wouldn't make two long posts like that right off the bat if I was scum, which let's be honest is akin to running around Germany doing the goose-step; you're going to draw attention to yourself, the very last thing a mafia would want.

I believe that I have been kept alive this long solely for the reason that I make a convenient shield for the true mafia because of my somewhat scummy defense of myself. If Sasaki had killed me in an early night phase, he would have made himself stand out as the scummiest person. I knew this was going to happen and knew that it would essentially boil down to who the third person believed most; myself or Sasaki.

I have been completely honest for the entire game, and while I might not be as intelligent as Sasaki, I would like to think that I have at least got the measure of him on this one; he is the mafia. I genuinely believe that you're innocent, and I also believe that Sasaki is going to vote for me as has probably been the intention from the get-go.

I guess what I'm saying is that the decision of the game is in your hands; whichever way you vote determines if the town wins or loses. I hope you make the right decision.

tl; dr - Remember Rule #1.

**Double A** · 03-09-2010, 23:59

But it's not like Sasaki to mess up, or is it? I'm not really sure, he normally gets D1 lynched in games we're in together, so I don't know.

Like I said, I'm going to wait till he pulls his case, in the meantime, fos: both of you

**Sasaki Kojiro** · 03-10-2010, 00:02

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

So, it tells us nothing, any of us could be guilty purely from the results. I don't see anything anyway. Even if we each assume we are innocent, it could be either of the other two people.

*******

Originally Posted by Sasaki

Secura is the mafia.

Vote:Secura

My first post, a vote with no reason given.

Originally Posted by Secura

I suspected that someone would jump such a foolish conclusion; I hadn't thought that it would be you, Sasaki, of all people.

What is your reasoning behind such a vote? To me, it seems like a scummy attempt to kill someone who's utilising their brain to figure things out. There's no better option this round but to vote for no lynch. You're effectively killing the town's ability to win by doing so... so why would you do that?

I can assure you that I am a simply cop, though I don't believe that will sway you.

Now, look at this post carefully. The main difference between mafia and town in this game is that the mafia know the alignment of other players. When someone accuses them, they know that person is town, and when they accuse someone, they know that person is town.

In the first paragraph, Secura says that she "didn't think I would have jumped to such a foolish conclusion". Only townies jump to conclusions, mafia are making things up. The wording shows that she knows I'm town. And mafia are more likely to be paranoid about someone jumping on their posts than townies are.

Then it's "seems like a scummy attempt", my vote on here is mafioso like, she says. Contradicts the last paragraph.

In a following post:

Originally Posted by Secura

I found what you said scummy because you were trying to call me out for, quite frankly, flip all.

This is different from what she said at the time. Before she said I was scummy for trying to squash the best plan for the town.
a) it isn't the best plan for the town
b) This is all in response to my "secura is mafia vote:secura" post. Overreacting.

Originally Posted by Secura

If you lynch me, which isn't going to end the game by the way, then you're left with three people in Day Two. How are you going to win at that point?

This is directed at me as a townie again. She describes a situation that would be tough for the town and says "how are you going to win at that point?".

Originally Posted by Secura

Also, I realise that I have just revealed my role, but considering I've been labelled as the most suspicious one here, it doesn't really matter to me; I'm Officer Brown, and seem to have a snappy taste in leather jackets.

Very eager to reveal her role.

Mine is captain queenan, I assume Double A has a role to claim as well. Mafia like to claim their fakeclaim roles to make themselves look innocent. This claim came after john was speculating that the players role might give away what kind of cop they were. If that was true, then by claiming secura would help the mafia find the normal and insane cops.

Originally Posted by Secura

Your insistence upon this is going to make you look extremely foolish when it transpires that it isn't actually true.

Assuming I'm town. Accusing an innocent person only makes the accuser look foolish if they are also town.

All you're doing is increasing the belief that you are possibly the scum yourself. Due to this behaviour, I'm going to follow JHT's plan for the evening and investigate Sasaki. If two others will do this also, we may have a better chance of ascertaining which detective has which personality trait and see if it correlates with what JHT has said.

Now I'm mafia again. Basically the trend is that secura makes statements that have a strong subtext of "sasaki is town", but then claims out loud that my arguments against her make me scum. This post directly contradicts good strategy, which she herself posted earlier:

Originally Posted by Secura

Are we going to use the structure that was suggested in the previous game, or are we following Sasaki's "three people investigate Secura"? I'll go along with either, but I wouldn't commit to putting all our eggs into one basket; what would we do if three people committed to investigating me overnight and I was night-killed? :/

She didn't really put much thought into this, the main point of this post was to show that she didn't mind being investigated. She later ignores the possibility of me being nightkilled and making the results useless because she knows she isn't going to nightkill me.

Originally Posted by Secura

Considering Sasaki is the top of my suspicions just as I am his, he can post his results after I post mine (which will be about Sasaki), and then the rest of you can post yours too. If he's lying, which I'm increasingly starting to believe that he will do, then his results will not correlate with the rest of you.

Is now convinced I am mafia, out of the blue...

If I do survive the night, then my lynch won't be based upon who any of the investigations point to or any bovine excrement like that; I'm going to vote for the person I find most scummy, and that would be you, Sasaki.

And will vote me no matter what the investigations point to :/

Whereas I suspect you, yes, but it could just as easily be any of the other players.

Except not.

****

Her insisting on investigating me, the guilty claim, the next day innocent claim, and the attempt to draw conclusions from the results even though you can't legitimately do so all point to her trying to set herself up as the normal cop. I don't see any type of setup like that in Double A's post.

Summary:
The subtext of many of her posts implies that I'm town. i.e., she says things to me that you wouldn't say to someone you thought was mafia.
The initial suspicion of me was only on account of my having attacked her (which she overreacted to)
She contradicts herself

Essentially, if you try and follow her train of thought through the thread, it isn't the thinking of a townie who becomes convinced that another person is scum. It's the train of thought of a mafioso who decides that they should accuse the person who is attacking them.

Vote:Secura

**Sasaki Kojiro** · 03-10-2010, 00:05

Oh and Double A, if you are actually mafia, kick back and enjoy the victory. Thank secura for oozing scumminess with every post (I'm innocent guys, here's my role claim, I don't mind if you all investigate me!) and me for deciding not to push the lynch day 1 plan.

**Sasaki Kojiro** · 03-10-2010, 00:13

Originally Posted by Secura

I believe that Sasaki is the scum and have done so for the entire course of the game;

No you haven't, see my above post.

Originally Posted by Secura

At the very start of the thread, Sasaki pounced on my posts which were, to me, not really that scummy at all;

No, you said you thought someone would jump on them. I'm also a pouncer. I jump on people every game, you played noblesse with me, you should know this. What did I say about Andres when I decided to lynch him?

The extent to which he has maintained that I am the guilty party, even before yourself or Methos had posted at all, did little to ease my beliefs.

First, as I said earlier, I believe in the schrodingers cat theory of mafia. People who haven't posted yet are not scummy.

Second, I found john the most suspicious of the three (for trying to skip out of the day one talk), and was glad he was killed. It would have been terrible strategy to reveal my top suspect. The mafia were going to kill two of them, hopefully the one I found most suspicious.

I questioned them a few times.

Originally Posted by Secura

Personally, I wouldn't make two long posts like that right off the bat if I was scum, which let's be honest is akin to running around Germany doing the goose-step; you're going to draw attention to yourself, the very last thing a mafia would want.

If you thought WIFOM was a good defense, you would think this made me innocent:

Originally Posted by Secura

I had some doubts, especially when he was the only person to claim an innocent result, because at that point I ruled him out entirely and thought it might've been you. However, he found the flaw in my thinking and actually reaffirmed, in my mind, that he could be the mafia after all.