Low Gaul morale

**Unintended BM** · 03-09-2010, 20:36

I've noticed on my Sweboz game that the Aedui and Arverni rout very quickly. I'm not using any scary units or anything, and they usually outnumber me. If I was fighting Romans and they had the same number of troops as some of these Gaul armies, I'd probably lose the battle. Usually about a minute after my main line engages, the gauls break and I chase them down.

I mean, I could easily make a joke about French people retreating, but that doesn't explain anything. Why do the gauls have such low morale?

**athanaric** · 03-09-2010, 20:47

Originally Posted by Unintended BM

I mean, I could easily make a joke about French people retreating, but that doesn't explain anything. Why do the gauls have such low morale?

Possibly because you're facing all-levies armies. Gauls in this game are a type of faction with a very strong core of elite units, and a large base of average warriors/levies.

**Unintended BM** · 03-09-2010, 21:27

I've fought quite a few Solduros and naked dudes. The naked dudes never rout, but I just kill them with javelins and slingers. Solduros like to kill my FMs, but they usually run when the rest of the army starts going.

But really, usually I face them with one or two FMs, a bunch of levy and regular germanic spearmen, and some germanic archers or celtic slingers and maybe some celtic swordsmen mercenaries. Are my spearmen really superior to regular celtic spearmen?

**Kival** · 03-09-2010, 21:37

Originally Posted by Unintended BM

Are my spearmen really superior to regular celtic spearmen?

Yes. The strength of the celtic armies are (except of spear-elites) their swordsmen. The levy spearmen are no good line-infantry, only good to fight some Cavalry and outnumber the enemy. The southern and later spearmen are able to hold some time longer but stil the germanic ones are superior. Without a change to the EDU your spearman (*) could also be able to win one on one against the northern celtic Swordsmen.

Also germanic and celtic troops have high charge bonus which gives the better attacker a high advantage.

*There is some modifation of the edu which gives all spearman a penalty of 4 to attack, so that the spearmen are no longer superior in melee to swordsmen.

**athanaric** · 03-09-2010, 21:38

Originally Posted by Unintended BM

I've fought quite a few Solduros and naked dudes. The naked dudes never rout, but I just kill them with javelins and slingers. Solduros like to kill my FMs, but they usually run when the rest of the army starts going.

Solduros and Gaesatae are some of the game's toughest units. The Carnutes are even nastier in some respect.

Are my spearmen really superior to regular celtic spearmen?

Yes, and here's why (my "homemade" eplanation): Gauls were actually more civilized than most people think. Hence the regular Gallic units are maybe less hardened than the warriors of a more primitive, aggressive culture situated in a rougher climate (rough or extreme climate means axebitten inhabitants, see Afghanistan, Frisia, Scotland, ...).
Also, the Germanic tribes were described as more disciplined as Gauls.

And don't forget that you are infinitely better as a general than the RTW AI, which also contributes to the phenomenon.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Code:

;61
type             celtic infantry gaeroas
dictionary       celtic_infantry_gaeroas      ; Gaeroas
category         infantry
class            spearmen
voice_type       General_1
soldier          celtic_infantry_gaeroas_balroae, 50, 0, 1.1
officer          ebofficer_celtic_officer
officer          ebofficer_celtic_standardbearer
mount_effect     elephant -3
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hardy
formation        1, 1.4, 2, 2.8, 5, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         5, 6, javelin, 45, 3, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10 , 1
stat_pri_attr    prec, thrown
stat_sec         15, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr    light_spear
stat_pri_armour  1, 12, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, 1, -1
stat_mental      10, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1208, 302, 50, 70, 1208
ownership        britons, gauls, scythia, slave, romans_julii, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, numidia, macedon, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, carthage, spain, seleucid, dacia, pontus, parthia, armenia, saba, germans

Code:

;32
type             germanic infantry frameharjoz
dictionary       germanic_infantry_frameharjoz      ; Dugunthiz
category         infantry
class            heavy
voice_type       General_1
soldier          germanic_infantry_dugunthiz_chattispearmen, 50, 0, 1.1
officer          ebofficer_germanic_standardbearer
mount_effect     elephant -3
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hardy
formation        0.76, 1, 1.4, 2, 5, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         7, 8, javelin, 30, 2, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr    prec, thrown
stat_sec         15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr    light_spear
stat_pri_armour  2, 12, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, 1, 0
stat_mental      11, impetuous, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1233, 308, 81, 140, 1233
ownership        germans, romans_julii, romans_brutii, numidia, macedon, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, carthage, parthia, gauls, britons, scythia, spain, dacia, armenia, pontus, romans_scipii, seleucid, saba, slave

**anubis88** · 03-09-2010, 21:55

Also, perhaps you had this kinda situation, the domino effect. Like in my SPQR campaign, i attacked a 3500 ptoly army with 2000 romans, and once i engaded the line an the FM died, i rushed at left flank with my extraodrinarii, and first the first unit routed, then then next phalanx, and then the next and in 10 seconds the whole army statred to rout. I lost only 100 men even though the ptolies had like 8 phalanx units, and i almost no cavalry

**Kival** · 03-09-2010, 22:01

I've seen your arme composition in the EB empires thread and with that army it's no wonder, that you root the celts so fast; seven units of sweboz bodyguards are seven units of elites and 5 units of experienced slingers kill about half of the enemy army before you can engage them.

EDIT: Typo.