If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

[Rhyfelwyr]

Maybe Rosa Parks shouldn't have stood up for her right to sit in a bus. I mean, she was totally not respecting white scumbags and their tradition.

Going to your school prom isn't a human right, when it's a private function they make the rules, there's no need for social authoritarianism to make everyone conform. Although if the event is funded by the state then I guess the school shouldn't really break its rules.

[Goofball]

Going to your school prom isn't a human right, when it's a private function they make the rules, there's no need for social authoritarianism to make everyone conform. Although if the event is funded by the state then I guess the school shouldn't really break its rules.

(bold added by me)

Sorry, just had to pick myself up off the floor because I was laughing at the classic conservative double-talk you just threw in there. The school, by insisting that only male/female pairs may attend the prom, is the party engaging in "social authoritarianism." The tactic you used is a mainstay in the conservative anit-gay arsenal: trying to make it look like the homosexual community is trying to force everyone to adopt its lifestyle, when in fact, it's the complete opposite. The conservatives are the ones trying to make everyone else conform to their own morality and live life by their rules.

[Strike For The South]

it's Mississippi

There still trying to figure out why there are people with a different skin color than them. Now girls can like girls? I can't imagine what those poor WASPs thinkning it must be hard

[Rhyfelwyr]

(bold added by me)

Sorry, just had to pick myself up off the floor because I was laughing at the classic conservative double-talk you just threw in there. The school, by insisting that only male/female pairs may attend the prom, is the party engaging in "social authoritarianism." The tactic you used is a mainstay in the conservative anit-gay arsenal: trying to make it look like the homosexual community is trying to force everyone to adopt its lifestyle, when in fact, it's the complete opposite. The conservatives are the ones trying to make everyone else conform to their own morality and live life by their rules.

I'm just saying that for the folk of Mississipi with their traditional beliefs and what not, the idea of a prom is that heterosexual couples go together like they did in the olden days. Tradition means a lot in these things, it's not like their banning lesbians from the club scene or taking part in public life.

You might not hold these values, but to the people of Mississipi, demanding lesbians attend a prom is as ridiculous as demanding that straights get to go on gay dating sites (idk if they can, but if they can then it's stupid). If gays are going to be more excluded simply due to the fact that there are more straight people, then that just sucks for them, but it's not their place to call on the government to demand everyone changes their own way of life to suit them (and we are talking about changing their way of life here, people are social creatures, and they have a right to have that respected in their public life, so long as discrimination is ever institutionalised).

Everyone is saying the school is being petty, but that's all we should do, not force them to change. Well, except maybe in this case if the prom is funded by the gov't, then they have to dance to their tune.

[Goofball]

I'm just saying that for the folk of Mississipi with their traditional beliefs and what not, the idea of a prom is that heterosexual couples go together like they did in the olden days. Tradition means a lot in these things, it's not like their banning lesbians from the club scene or taking part in public life.

You might not hold these values, but to the people of Mississipi, demanding lesbians attend a prom is as ridiculous as demanding that straights get to go on gay dating sites (idk if they can, but if they can then it's stupid). If gays are going to be more excluded simply due to the fact that there are more straight people, then that just sucks for them, but it's not their place to call on the government to demand everyone changes their own way of life to suit them (and we are talking about changing their way of life here, people are social creatures, and they have a right to have that respected in their public life, so long as discrimination is ever institutionalised).

Everyone is saying the school is being petty, but that's all we should do, not force them to change. Well, except maybe in this case if the prom is funded by the gov't, then they have to dance to their tune.

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but I honestly don't understand what kind of sweeping lifestyle change you believe the lesbian girl is trying to force on the conservatives of Mississippi. Please do explain it to me. As far as I can see, all she wants to do is be free to attend a a social event at the school she has attended as a student for the last four years with her girlfriend. She is not asking anyone to become a lesbian. No personal lifestyle change is being forced on any member of the student body by her desire to attend the prom. They can go on being heterosexual, conservative, Christian, Muslim, gun-owners, tea-totallers, or whatever else they want to be, and the lesbian girl and the ACLU won't care. All the girl wants is to go to the dance. She is the one having someone else's lifestyle choice forced upon her.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Exactly. Let's say that we meet a conservative, traditional society who has as it's tradition that we don't exist. Are we then in the wrong for violating their traditions? Or are there qualifiers on the extent to which we should respect their traditions, one of them being that they don't interfere with our traditions for no good reason?

[Rhyfelwyr]

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but I honestly don't understand what kind of sweeping lifestyle change you believe the lesbian girl is trying to force on the conservatives of Mississippi. Please do explain it to me. As far as I can see, all she wants to do is be free to attend a a social event at the school she has attended as a student for the last four years with her girlfriend. She is not asking anyone to become a lesbian. No personal lifestyle change is being forced on any member of the student body by her desire to attend the prom. They can go on being heterosexual, conservative, Christian, Muslim, gun-owners, tea-totallers, or whatever else they want to be, and the lesbian girl and the ACLU won't care. All the girl wants is to go to the dance. She is the one having someone else's lifestyle choice forced upon her.

I agree with most of what you're saying. What the school is doing is petty and wrong. This girls attendance at the event shouldn't really effect anyone.

But to these people it's a big deal, and at the end of the day it is their own private event. I'll condemn their choice, but I don't see it as anyones place to make them change. But if we do at least try to see if from their perspective - the prom is a rare, traditional event. Part of the tradition that reflects the culture of that area is that only heterosexual couples go, due largely to the Christian culture of the place. If you start brining in lesbian couples, you're turning it into something else, it's no longer a Mississipi school prom, it's suddenly an experiment in multiculturalism. Nothing radical to you, but it is for them.

Exactly. Let's say that we meet a conservative, traditional society who has as it's tradition that we don't exist. Are we then in the wrong for violating their traditions? Or are there qualifiers on the extent to which we should respect their traditions, one of them being that they don't interfere with our traditions for no good reason?

Surely this would only be relevant if it affected those peoples freedom in the public sphere. Private functions should not count as part of the public sphere, they should be free for people to be as prejudiced as they like, it's not our place to judge or infringe on that. Although as I said, I wouldnt' use my point here in this case if the prom is funded by the government, but I'm just raising it more generally.

[HoreTore]

But to these people it's a big deal, and at the end of the day it is their own private event.

No it most definitely is not.

It's a public event, run by the state school and funded by taxes paid by the lesbian girls parents. As such we have every right to tell them they're homophobic idiots and force them to allow gays at their prom.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Surely this would only be relevant if it affected those peoples freedom in the public sphere. Private functions should not count as part of the public sphere, they should be free for people to be as prejudiced as they like, it's not our place to judge or infringe on that. Although as I said, I wouldnt' use my point here in this case if the prom is funded by the government, but I'm just raising it more generally.

Why do you say "judge"? Infringe would have more stringent requirements I agree.

[Goofball]

I agree with most of what you're saying. What the school is doing is petty and wrong. This girls attendance at the event shouldn't really effect anyone.

But to these people it's a big deal, and at the end of the day it is their own private event. I'll condemn their choice, but I don't see it as anyones place to make them change. But if we do at least try to see if from their perspective - the prom is a rare, traditional event. Part of the tradition that reflects the culture of that area is that only heterosexual couples go, due largely to the Christian culture of the place. If you start brining in lesbian couples, you're turning it into something else, it's no longer a Mississipi school prom, it's suddenly an experiment in multiculturalism. Nothing radical to you, but it is for them.

As has been pointed out, this is certainly not a private event. The lesbian girl is just as much a member of the school as any of the other students. She is not trying to change anyone else's lifestyle, or to exclude anyone else from attending. This is being done to her, not the other way around. If your only argument is that tradition trumps personal freedom and basic human dignity, then I suggest you simply haven't thought the matter through in a logical fashion. The question has been asked already in this thread, but is ideally applicable to your comments, so I'll ask it again: Tradition in this same area of the country previously held that blacks could not attend the same schools, play on the same sports teams, sit at the same lunch counters, or even drink from the same water fountains as whites. Should we have simply said "Oh well, that's their tradition, I guess we have to respect that."?

[Fragony]

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but I honestly don't understand what kind of sweeping lifestyle change you believe the lesbian girl is trying to force on the conservatives of Mississippi. Please do explain it to me. As far as I can see, all she wants to do is be free to attend a a social event at the school she has attended as a student for the last four years with her girlfriend.

The right idea but the wrong place, just leave it at that. Why insist to be a part of their world.

[Ser Clegane]

Why insist to be a part of their world.

What makes you assume that she is some kind of outcast who is not "part of their world"? For all you know she might be treated as "one of theirs" by most other students who might not have cared at all if she had showed up with her date.

I did not read anything that would indicate that other students were upset about the idea of her showing up in a tuxedo - I only read about students who are upset about the stupid idea of canceling the prom.

[Fragony]

I did not read anything that would indicate that other students were upset about the idea of her showing up in a tuxedo - I only read about students who are upset about the stupid idea of canceling the prom.

Guess you didn't notice the 'NO GAYS' signs. There is a time and and place for everyting but not there and not now.

[The Stranger]

I'm just saying that for the folk of Mississipi with their traditional beliefs and what not, the idea of a prom is that white couples go together like they did in the olden days. Tradition means a lot in these things, it's not like their banning blacks from the club scene or taking part in public life.

You might not hold these values, but to the people of Mississipi, demanding blacks attend a prom is as ridiculous as demanding that whites get to go on black dating sites (idk if they can, but if they can then it's stupid). If blacks are going to be more excluded simply due to the fact that there are more white people, then that just sucks for them, but it's not their place to call on the government to demand everyone changes their own way of life to suit them (and we are talking about changing their way of life here, people are social creatures, and they have a right to have that respected in their public life, so long as discrimination is ever institutionalised).

Everyone is saying the school is being petty, but that's all we should do, not force them to change. Well, except maybe in this case if the prom is funded by the gov't, then they have to dance to their tune.

i mean... wtf.

If blacks are going to be more excluded simply due to the fact that there are more white people, then that just sucks for them, but it's not their place to call on the government to demand everyone changes their own way of life to suit them

especcially that part...

[Rhyfelwyr]

i mean... wtf.

If blacks are going to be more excluded simply due to the fact that there are more white people, then that just sucks for them, but it's not their place to call on the government to demand everyone changes their own way of life to suit them

especcially that part...

Well of course. Remember, I was talking in theory, questioning what would be right if this was a private event.

I can't go to a Catholic school here, Protestants can't teach in them. And I don't care, no need for the moral outrage because we have to pretend everyone is the same.

[The Stranger]

Well of course. Remember, I was talking in theory, questioning what would be right if this was a private event.

I can't go to a Catholic school here, Protestants can't teach in them. And I don't care, no need for the moral outrage because we have to pretend everyone is the same.

we dont have to pretend that everyone is the same. you live in ireland right? well if thats the law of your country, than its the law. wether or not that law is morally oke is indeed another question. but as long as that law is in its place one has to obey it.

besides your main reasoning can also be used against the school

the majority of the people is tolerant gay people, if the minority who is intolarant does not agree, well than thats their bad luck and they just have to live with it.

i dont think such reasoning is correct but its what you said.

[Rhyfelwyr]

we dont have to pretend that everyone is the same. you live in ireland right? well if thats the law of your country, than its the law. wether or not that law is morally oke is indeed another question. but as long as that law is in its place one has to obey it.

besides your main reasoning can also be used against the school

the majority of the people is tolerant gay people, if the minority who is intolarant does not agree, well than thats their bad luck and they just have to live with it.

i dont think such reasoning is correct but its what you said.

I live in Scotland, and we've had state-funded Catholic schools since 1918, as well as the state-funded non-denominational school, which effectively means Protestant schools (well not not necessarily nowadays, depends on the area). Anyway, up until now, the main issue people had with the school was from a moral, and not legal perspective. I do not think it is necessarily immoral for different people to be seperate but equal. If that's the way people want it to be, then let it be so for them, instead of some activists (which this kid was really, even if she's right) demanding everyone integrate when most people don't want to.

[Fragony]

The conservatives are the ones trying to make everyone else conform to their own morality and live life by their rules.

Yes of course, but it isn't any different the other way around. What is wrong with people wanting to live in a conservative society with conservative values, you can always move to a different place, earth is a big enough a place for all of us why look for trouble. It's silly to you and me, but it's how that place is and it's what you can respect when you -yes- don't show respect their views on certain things. Why can't they have that? Why isn't it allowed?

[Strike For The South]

Calling Mississippi a "conservative" socitey is like saying the NAZIs had some old timey ideas on race

Mississippi is a terrible place

Boom Goodwin