Attack on the Moscow metro

[HoreTore]

Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act?

A people who have been subject to some of the vilest war crimes of the modern age for the last decades, perhaps?

Russia doesn't get the moral high ground because of this. This crime is nothing compared to the Russian crimes.

Or.... It could be some lunatic fringe of Russians, conspiracy nuts who thinks that such an act is actually a good thing for the russian people, for various reasons... Kinda like a Russian Timothy McVeigh, I guess...

[Tristuskhan]

Russia doesn't get the moral high ground because of this. This crime is nothing compared to the Russian crimes.

Blame the Caucasian Vendetta(tm!) too . There can't be no moral high ground on the side of a soldier of the vendetta. Different rules. People tend to forget Caucasus is a land of high traditions. High and noble traditions indeed, a bit erh, excacerbated (sp) by an horrid history. They've beeng gifted the sweet tradition of Wahhabism by Saudi Arabia (RIP Caucasian Sufism, that's some hell of a loss). Now they try to gift the exquisite tradition of vendetta to Russia.

Brrrr... it's cold down there.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Are the Caucasus and the Balkans on the same latitude more or less?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Are the Caucasus and the Balkans on the same latitude more or less?

Chechnya, Kosovo and Detroit are all on the exact same latitude.


Could we be on to something here...?

[PanzerJaeger]

A people who have been subject to some of the vilest war crimes of the modern age for the last decades, perhaps?

Russia doesn't get the moral high ground because of this. This crime is nothing compared to the Russian crimes.

The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost. This is just heinous Muslim terrorism with no realistic political or strategic goals other than to inflict death and misery on as many innocents as possible.

[Tristuskhan]

The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost.

If it is so obvious why don' t you explain them?

[Megas Methuselah]

The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost. This is just heinous Muslim terrorism with no realistic political or strategic goals other than to inflict death and misery on as many innocents as possible.

Freedom fighters, I say. Just like the French resistance after the Nazis overran their country in WW2, right?

[Fragony]

Freedom fighters, I say. Just like the French resistance after the Nazis overran their country in WW2, right?

Yeah freedom fighters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG1aZSckpiw

[HoreTore]

The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost.

Really?

Better tell the Russians, so they can put an end to the abuse, punishment and terrorism they perform down there.

[Sarmatian]

Yeah, but killing innocents isn't really the answer. Kill Putin, Medvedev or some general who was in charge, don't kill people going to work to provide for their families. There is no excuse or moral high ground for the terrorists.

[Megas Methuselah]

Fire with fire?

[Strike For The South]

Yeah, but killing innocents isn't really the answer. Kill Putin, Medvedev or some general who was in charge, don't kill people going to work to provide for their families. There is no excuse or moral high ground for the terrorists.

That's why there terrorists.....

[Husar]

The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost.

I didn't know you Americans were that fond of russian propaganda, you learn something new every day.

Yeah, but killing innocents isn't really the answer. Kill Putin, Medvedev or some general who was in charge, don't kill people going to work to provide for their families. There is no excuse or moral high ground for the terrorists.

And that, I'm very sorry for all the russians who lost their life or family members in these acts of terrorism.
You can't blame all Russians for what their government does in Chechnya, neither can you blame all Muslims for what their terrorist does in Moscow.
Terrorists aren't even elected usually. (No, that's a government consisting of some people who are/were terrorists, PJ and Frag)

[Fragony]

Terrorists aren't even elected usually. (No, that's a government consisting of some people who are/were terrorists, PJ and Frag)

Did I say anything?

[Husar]

Did I say anything?

Obviously not because I struck you down like an elephant that steps on a flower before you even got a chance to say anything, hah!

[PanzerJaeger]

Really?

Better tell the Russians, so they can put an end to the abuse, punishment and terrorism they perform down there.

There is no doubt that the war got ugly on both sides, but the war is over. Russia has pulled out the vast majority of its troops. The counter-insurgency operation ended last April and negotiations commenced. Zakayev, the Chechen separatist leader, declared an end to the conflict last August. Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people. Only a tiny group of fringe fanatics remain in the Northern Caucauses. The world has moved on. If these Muslim women wanted to die for Chechen independence, they had 10 years to do so. At this point, they have no viable strategic justifications for the carnage they have wrought, and their supporters and enablers deserve nothing less than the kind of justice that can only be found in Russia.

Freedom fighters, I say. Just like the French resistance after the Nazis overran their country in WW2, right?

The French Resistance did not target civilians. Further, the French had a realistic expectation of victory as the war continued on in other theatres after the fall of France. In contrast, the war in Chechnya is over, with even the Chechen's de Gaulle, Zakayev, declaring as much. These people are not freedom fighters, they are not even true Chechens. They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.

[Tristuskhan]

Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people.

Are you serious? Do you only know who are Kadyrov and his clique? Do you remember the circumstances of his "election" and have you heard of the level of corruption in Chechnya?

If these Muslim women wanted to die for Chechen independence, they had 10 years to do so. At this point, they have no viable strategic justifications for the carnage they have wrought

Vendetta needs no viable strategic justifications, and ten years is still a short delay for the achievement of vengeance.

and their supporters and enablers deserve nothing less than the kind of justice that can only be found in Russia

I'm definitely sorry to agree. But things are much more complex that you seem to believe.

[PanzerJaeger]

Are you serious? Do you only know who are Kadyrov and his clique? Do you remember the circumstances of his "election" and have you heard of the level of corruption in Chechnya?

Yes. The situation, as in all of Russia, is rife with corruption. Did anyone expect anything other than a Kadyrov type strongman to be installed after such a war? I'm surprised the Russians even went to the trouble of having an "election". It doesn't change the fact that the Chechens fought and lost. Past tense. The time for violence ended last August, as Zakayev stated. Russian troops are gone and Grozny is being rebuilt. The economy and standard of living have rebounded in the region, and they are even considering a tourism industry. Certainly there is bad blood left over, but the world, including the Chechen people, has moved on, and these Muslim extremists need to find some way of dealing with that fact other than blowing people up.

Vendetta needs no viable strategic justifications, and ten years is still a short delay for the achievement of vengeance.

Exactly. Blowing innocent people up over personal vendettas and vengeance is the ultimate petty, selfish act. Further, these people are not even real Chechen nationalists. They are radical Muslims, the same radical Muslims that bombed the Chechen government when it was independent, and one of the main causes of the instability that led to Russia retaking control of the region in the second war. They will not stop until Chechnya is an Islamic theocracy.

But things are much more complex that you seem to believe.

I never said that Chechnya was a great place, only that the time for violence is over.

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha

What did I say that was inaccurate?

In short - you are advocating to Nuke the Middle East?

No.

[HoreTore]

Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people.

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Tristuskhan]

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hore Tore, I understand that since one can't cry everytime the statement deserved a good laugh, but erh, could you be more specific in your reactions?

[al Roumi]

There is no doubt that the war got ugly on both sides, but the war is over. Russia has pulled out the vast majority of its troops. The counter-insurgency operation ended last April and negotiations commenced. Zakayev, the Chechen separatist leader, declared an end to the conflict last August. Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people. Only a tiny group of fringe fanatics remain in the Northern Caucauses. The world has moved on. If these Muslim women wanted to die for Chechen independence, they had 10 years to do so. At this point, they have no viable strategic justifications for the carnage they have wrought, and their supporters and enablers deserve nothing less than the kind of justice that can only be found in Russia.

...the war in Chechnya is over, with even the Chechen's de Gaulle, Zakayev, declaring as much. These people are not freedom fighters, they are not even true Chechens. They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.

To borrow from Tristuskhan's sig: "Les Cons ça ose tout, c'est même à ça qu'on les reconnait"

[spmetla]

RIP to the innocent that were killed.

[Beskar]

They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.

In short - you are advocating to Nuke the Middle East?