Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah, the weapons got a bit ridiculous at the end. I think I gave subtle hints to my mafia colleagues saying as much when I had the "door-to-door" mafioso (always Subotan's personality, btw) ask out loud how you manage to kill someone with a cheese grater and the a round later when he told his target that he had come to beat them to death with a rolling pin.

Bessie provided a nice outlet for my frustration though. I deliberately left her fate ambiguous at the end just in case someone decides to bring her back one day.

[Thermal]

Bessie provided a nice outlet for my frustration though. I deliberately left her fate ambiguous at the end just in case someone decides to bring her back one day.

Perhaps bessie is closer than we think

looks at beefy*

[Chaotix]

The Night 1 exchange. I returned from having no power to find myself dead in one game and mafia in another! Subotan had already sent in orders by this time and the deadline had passed. I was a little confused when the write-up finally rolled around, as Subotan had forgotten he chose Andres and not TinCow.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hey, look forward to working with you

My intuition demanded I pick Tincow as your choice, and I decided to help relieve Crazed Rabbit of all the pressure of coping with two large games at once by killing him.

Oooh, right off the bat with two big names... That's sure to cause some controversy.

Crazed Rabbit seems right, but I'm not entirely sure about TinCow. He may be very useful to have around as a scapegoat for a lynch instead. Remember- since there are NO other pro-town roles in this game, anyone we kill is a confirmed innocent. As an innocent, I am sure TinCow will be very helpful to the town....

But then again, he also said he wouldn't be paying a whole lot of attention to this game. Perhaps he will just drop it entirely once he's dead.

Gah! There's probably no reason to get all complicated over the Round 1 kills. Part of me wonders if it won't tip off the other vets, but there's a WIFOM-within-WIFOM argument for that, too.

Let's just go with it. We'll get more in-depth with strategy in later rounds, eh?

Night 2 kills. Sorry atheotes and Double A!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Who shall we off tonight?

Personally, I'm thinking atheotes and Double A. My reasoning:

atheotes always seems to be accused of being mafia. This round in particular he came under fire from Renata, and was at odds with her the whole time. Killing atheotes will look like an obvious framing of Renata. I'm going for a reverse-reverse psychology here: Renata is known for being crafty, so she would be the sort of person make it look like she got framed while in fact it was her all along- and as an added bonus, her enemy is now dead.

Double A is one of those players who never, ever seems to come under direct fire. He jokes around but rarely gets any serious votes, or even pressure. I think he's a poor scapegoat at best, so we may as well kill him sooner than later- leave the more suspicious-looking players alive the longest.

What are your thoughts?

Double A sounds good. He always to be a background character in mafia games, staying out of the limelight.

Atheotes I'm a bit more unsure of, but I don't have any other ideas, so yeah, go for it.

This is after I got lynched Day 3- Now we got serious. Seriously.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, that's a real bummer. Hard to believe that virtually a single post near the start of the round got me lynched.

I was all excited for this one, too...

Am I allowed to PM with Subotan still, or is it up to him alone?

Yikes, this going to get ugly. IMHO, you played a late game strategy (Refuting every point, indepth analysis) when you should have been playing an early game strategy (Pooh-poohing the accusation, inane posts that mean nothing). So the bandwagon stuck to you when it could have rolled off and attached itself to someone else. And luck played a part too of course (As well as my not voting for Methos....I was asleep when all the Methos analysis came about)

I didn't respond to Khaan's bandwagon on me for that reason, but he'll remember it. I doubt I could kill him so soon after his attempted bandwagon, but I'll have to get rid of him soon.

And yes, I'll need your advice for this. I'm thinking Csargo, as he's a vet who has stayed reasonably quiet, and I'm also looking for someone who might be able to frame either Secura or Renata. Maybe Ibn-Khaldun, but it seems harsh to kill him so soon after what happened in Shadow Fort. Centurion1 might be a good choice, as I've never seen him contribute anything to a mafia game.

What do you think? I'm really open to what you suggest, as I want to keep you in the game if not in form but in spirit (literally).

Csargo and Centurion sound good right now. I think it might be a good idea to continually drop hints towards Renata's guiltiness for the time being. However, if we make it seem too obvious then it will look like a blatant framing. These two are completely unrelated, but neither will likely fall under much pressure until the endgame. Let's get rid of them now.

Night 4. This is the first Pizza write-up, with the Pizza Paddle. I'm not sure either of us knew how much controversy it would cause... we forewent the Five-seveN kill because split was inactive anyway.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm thinking:
Winston Hughes: To implicate Psychonaut (As Centurion1 also voted for Psychonaut)
Kagemusha: To implicate Renata

Any thoughts? Like I said, I'm really open to what you suggest; I don't want this to turn into a Subotan vs. Humanity game. (Although that would be cool...)

Winston sounds fine. I would be wary of killing Kage, though- if we do that he becomes a confirmed innocent, and from what I've heard there's nothing more dangerous than a believable Kage on the hunt (well, except maybe a random lynch ).

Perhaps pick someone low-profile, like johnhughthom or Joooray?

Also, I have an idea. Perform one of the kills with a Five-seveN pistol, as it could implicate splitpersonality.

Night 5 is when we started preparing our mid-game strategy. The rest of the PMs from here on out will be filled with juicy strategy tidbits. Also, this one may be of particular interest to ATPG...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Got any ideas for tonight?

Well, let's see... we need to start getting a mid-to-endgame strategy going here.

I think we should knock off another low profile player, along with someone that will cause a controversy. Here's the problem- the more we kill low profile players, the more YOU will stand out, because you too are low profile, low post count.

Among the low-profiles I would suggest for now are: Blackadder, Methos, Joooray, shlin, CDF, w&f, Psychonaut, or split.

As for someone that will cause a stir, let's narrow down the rest of them.

First off, there are quite a few characters that simply will be lynched if we let them live long enough. These are mainly the vets and the big names: Sasaki, ATPG, Kagemusha, Beskar, TinCow, Reenk Roink. We should only knock them off sparingly.

There are others who have likely become lynch-bait due to past suspicion: Ibn-Khaldun, Renata, and perhaps Thermal Mercury. Leave these ones alive till the end.

There are some kills we can make that will create a WIFOM frame: Killing white_eyes, pever, or Reenk will set off the other two- probably on either each other or on Beefy, who never comes under suspicion normally unless he survives to the endgame. Killing Secura will look like a revenge-kill for anyone out of the many players she has accused or argued with, like Kagemusha. What's more, I believe Secura will also be very hard to get lynched.

So, in conclusion... for tonight, I think we should go for:

1. Someone on the "lurker list".
2. Either Secura, white_eyes, or Reenk.

Also, about the write-ups themselves:

-Whether you realized it or not when you first suggested it, that pizza paddle write up worked brilliantly. It may not have garnered votes for ATPG, but it planted that seed of suspicion and WIFOM, all due to the relation in his name. It can be argued, and it will be argued, that ATPG put that write-up in there to brag to us at the end when he wins- the same way that Crazed Rabbit put himself in a bunny suit during his Capo III kills. I think that we should have a pizza-related write-up EVERY night phase, because it will freak people out. Go with a pizza cutter tonight, definitely.

It is important to note, though, that when pizza does come under suspicion for that, you act naturally. If the case would have sounded too tenuous to you as a townie, then don't go for it, but jump on the bandwagon if it goes wild and you would have done it anyway.

Well, that's what I think, anyway. I mean, I'm no expert, I got killed already!
In the end, go with what you feel is right. The only thing I strongly suggest is the continuation of those pizza write-ups- they are devious.

For Night 6 there was relatively little discussion, as Subo was away. I subbed in orders for him:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok, here's my suggestions for tonight Subo:

1. Secura. Because she will never be lynched.
2. Beskar. Because he will probably flip out on Renata.

In fact, BOTH kills will implicate Renata, but we can make it look like she's covering it up instead of being framed by also implicating ATPG in the kill method.

Unless we can come up with something better, the pizza kill should be with a cheese grater.
And as for the 'animal' kill... how about a mad cow?

What were you thinking for tonight's kills?

Night 7. Another looooong PM. Mid-to-endgame strategy in here.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Let's see... I'm thinking pevergreen and Ibn-Khaldun tonight. How about you?

You sure? Pevergreen appears to want himself dead anyway, and Ibn is as scummy as hell

I've got a good feeling about Kage. He's being active, and were I town, I wouldn't be thinking he was scummy.

Really? Renata is really ripping at Kage, and he's starting to look more and more suspicious to types like ATPG and Sasaki. I predict the two of them will vote for him next round- they've practically set it up for a conflict.

I thought pever might be a good choice because, after that stunt he pulled, there's no way the town will vote for him again.

Ibn has not been getting a whole lot of attention at all lately, but you're probably right- he'll come back into the spotlight soon enough.

The only thing we have to worry about is that we don't leave you as the only lurker alive in the endgam, as it will make you incredibly conspicuous. That's why I'm thinking we gotta knock off a big name or two here and there. I am convinced, however, that Kage, ATPG, and Sasaki will still get themselves lynched.

I'm gonna go down the list again and share my thought process... in the end it is of course your decision.

Sasaki Kojiro- lynchbait, eventually.

Askthepizzaguy- utter lynchbait, we're destroying him with these write-ups.

Beefy187- relatively low-suspicion for mid-game Beefy... on second consideration he could be a good choice.

Methos- lurking, and scummy. We should bring him along for the ride.

Kagemusha- I predict that he's probably tomorrow or the day after's lynch. And we also have the so-called "curse of Kage" that I don't want to have cited as our reason for losing.

Captain Blackadder- probably WoG-bait. May as well leave him be.

Joooray- bandwagoner, but not under fire. Possible choice.

pevergreen- no matter how close he came to being lynched, now even ATPG thinks he is innocent. If we let him live, it will take a long time to get them to lynch him again.

Renata- Likely to come under attack sooner or later. She is all-offense and leaving herself open to attack.

Thermal Mercury- lynchbait, I think. Very soon.

Ibn-Khaldun- Scummy, but not under fire for it... unsure.

woad&fangs- lurking, maybe even WoG-bait. Let him get himself killed.

Psychonaut- lurking. Another possible endgame companion.

Reenk Roink- The way he rubs on people, he WILL be lynched. It is but a matter of time.

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So, the way I see it now, there are 4 lurkers left besides you, and the rest are active: Methos, Blackadder, woad&fangs, and Psychonaut. Of those, 2 (Blackadder and woad) will be WoG'd soon. It stands to reason that we probably want to leave the other two alive so that you are not basically the "odd one out" in the endgame.

Our possible kills now are those players that are the least likely to be lynched soon. I think that those are limited to: Beefy, Joooray, and pevergreen. If you don't like those options, we can expand that to include Thermal, Reenk, and Ibn, as it may be a while before the town really goes after them.

That leaves 4 remaining who are high-profile, high-probability of lynch players: ATPG, Sasaki, Renata, Kage. They are currently dominating the discussion, and they are all attacking each other.



This is really coming down to the wire, and I may be overthinking things. I don't know. Anyway, to sum it up, my new suggestions: Beefy, Joooray, or pevergreen.

-------------------------------------

Also, we should think about kill methods. What else can we possibly do that's pizza related? Perhaps... a pizza-dough rolling pin?

Animals... killer bees? sharks? skunks? rather unpleasant birds? Or perhaps we could mix it up and do somethng completely unrelated...

Am I talking too much? Would you rather have less of my constant insight, or is this helpful for you?

Oh no, discussion like this is really helpful. This my first mafia game as mafia, and the discussion is really useful.

I agree with Joooray, as I'd kind of overlooked him before because he's lurking so much, heh. PEVERGREEN's death may also implicate Tincow.

GH wants to go further with the Bessie idea, and I agree with him for two reasons. One, the use of a cow could be linked to Beefy quite succinctly enough for it to be plausible. Also, there appears to be some kind of IRL connection between Beefy and PEVERGREEN, so him dying thanks to a cow could have interesting results. And a rolling pin sounds good

Night 8. This one is endgame strategy.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So... who do we kill tonight? It's getting progressively harder to choose. At some point it could get so difficult and complicated strategy-wise that it might be better to just pick'em randomly or on whim.

First off:

Captain Blackadder has managed to prolong his existence by posting and voting, and as such he will probably not be WoG'd as we had hoped. I think he should be one of our kills.

-------

The other kill is much harder to call.

There are some that we just shouldn't kill: ATPG, Sasaki, Kage, Psychonaut, woad.
This is because they are either high-profile lynch targets or low-profile players you can blend with.

Speaking of low-profile- Thermal hit the nail on the head with his analysis this turn. On one hand, I want to get rid of him so he doesn't say it again... on the other, nobody is really believing him and he is perceived as scummy.

Ibn is looking less and less scummy the longer this game goes on. I'm not sure the town will lynch him, so we may have to take care of him.

Reenk is low profile now, but will likely be accused by ATPG very soon, causing massive walls of text and controversy from both... I suppose we could kill him, but it would seem a shame.

Beefy is likely the same story as Reenk, but I predict he will be much harder to lynch in the end. We'll have to consider killing him at some point.

Renata is enigmatic- I thought for sure she would come under fire this round, and she posts a lot. I don't like the idea of killing her right now.

------------------------------

So if we can rule out Reenk and Renata as unfavorable for now- that leaves Thermal, Ibn, and Beefy to choose from for our second kill. If you've got other ideas, please share them, though.

We've also got to think about end-game. I think the ideal final four is probably:

2 out of: ATPG, Sasaki, Kage
1 out of: Psychonaut, woad&fangs
And you, of course.

So, if some of them aren't lynched... we have to kill them. Although, there could be other combinations that lead to a winner. I think this is the best because then you have the two big players accusing each other and/or trying to figure out which between you and the other lurker is the mafioso. Of course, there are definitely other winning combinations... I'm unsure how it would work out if all the big players were dead- more like a random chance.

--------------------------

For the kills- one should be done by smothering the person in a giant pot of molten cheese fondue.

Ok, that's all I've got for now.

-Chaotix

Well, that's it. I hope you have enjoyed this insight into the minds of the mafia masters that you so thoroughly trounced.

[Reenk Roink]

Good game GH

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Wow...I had literally no idea any attempt was being made at framing Renata

The pizza thing could have worked very well though, especially if you'd conspicuously stopped it once we got to endgame. Maybe even could have provoked a self vote :p

[Chaotix]

Wow...I had literally no idea any attempt was being made at framing Renata

The pizza thing could have worked very well though, especially if you'd conspicuously stopped it once we got to endgame. Maybe even could have provoked a self vote :p

Well, we kinda dropped that idea once we were having more success with framing ATPG.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well, we kinda dropped that idea once we were having more success with framing ATPG.

I cannot believe anyone here who was innocent would seriously believe I'd do that to myself as mafia in a vanilla game. I'm the most misunderstood player around, man.

Self-vote, yes. Asking to be killed? Never.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Self-vote, yes. Asking to be killed? Never.

[Thermal]

Wow...I had literally no idea any attempt was being made at framing Renata

Same.

It was an interesting read chaotix.

[White_eyes:D]

Wow...I had literally no idea any attempt was being made at framing Renata

The pizza thing could have worked very well though, especially if you'd conspicuously stopped it once we got to endgame. Maybe even could have provoked a self vote :p

Do you have any thoughts that it was Pizzaguy using WIFOM on himself?(I know I did).
How much of the write-ups did GH do? because I don't think Subo or Chaotix could frame players that WELL

[Askthepizzaguy]

I want everyone to look at my avatar for a moment.

Do you see that rather large border around my face? That's called a FRAME.







Askthepizzaguy: Always Innocent.

[White_eyes:D]

IN your head you always think "I am a townie" it's how you get by....but I like Sasaki's "Just sneak by" strategy...makes him harder to lynch or even frame....almost impossible really

beating either goes like this....Meta-game Pizzaguy and always think Sasaki is a bigger threat then he actually is...

[Chaotix]

Do you have any thoughts that it was Pizzaguy using WIFOM on himself?(I know I did).
How much of the write-ups did GH do? because I don't think Subo or Chaotix could frame players that WELL

GH did all of the write-ups. We only gave him the kill methods, though- which did mean that the actual pizza-framing ideas were ours.

Subo didn't want to do write-ups, and I really didn't have time. I think it's actually a distinct advantage to have the host doing write-ups, though- because then, no matter what, your writing style cannot be recognized. That was one thing that would have worried me constantly had I been doing them myself. I know ATPG might have been able to pick up on it, for one.

[White_eyes:D]

GH did all of the write-ups. We only gave him the kill methods, though- which did mean that the actual pizza-framing ideas were ours.

Subo didn't want to do write-ups, and I really didn't have time. I think it's actually a distinct advantage to have the host doing write-ups, though- because then, no matter what, your writing style cannot be recognized. That was one thing that would have worried me constantly had I been doing them myself. I know ATPG might have been able to pick up on it, for one.

I did pretty good in Godfather 3....I just hide my writing-style in a different mind-set....sort of like going from a mean person to a good person....me and Beefy made it to the end....but Sasaki had to cut us down

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Do you have any thoughts that it was Pizzaguy using WIFOM on himself?(I know I did).
How much of the write-ups did GH do? because I don't think Subo or Chaotix could frame players that WELL

I thought maybe he did it to have that fake argument between him and beefy (beefy being his scumpartner in this scenario). But I never really stuck with it.

[TinCow]

The Night 1 exchange. I returned from having no power to find myself dead in one game and mafia in another! Subotan had already sent in orders by this time and the deadline had passed. I was a little confused when the write-up finally rolled around, as Subotan had forgotten he chose Andres and not TinCow.

I was hoping to be eliminated for the first several rounds, as I wasn't paying any attention due to Shadow Fort. By the time I finally had time to start paying attention, I was having too much fun not contributing at all, so I decided to finish out the game with an experiment. I was going to continue with the no-reasoning bandwagon votes until the game was over or I was killed, and I was curious to see how far I'd get. I got tired of holding up the game with the pever tie vote round though, so I felt I'd do us all a favor and remove myself to keep the game moving forward. I started actually paying attention and trying to figure the game out after that.

[Secura]

Naturally, I'm really curious about the orders for Night Six, where you ordered the kills on myself and Beskar as detailed below:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok, here's my suggestions for tonight Subo:

1. Secura. Because she will never be lynched.
2. Beskar. Because he will probably flip out on Renata.

In fact, BOTH kills will implicate Renata, but we can make it look like she's covering it up instead of being framed by also implicating ATPG in the kill method.

Unless we can come up with something better, the pizza kill should be with a cheese grater.
And as for the 'animal' kill... how about a mad cow?

What were you thinking for tonight's kills?

How come you two felt that I would never be lynched? I guess I'm jumping the gun a little but I was under the impression that until I died, I was very much in the town's list of suspects, or Sasaki's in the very least (never a good list to be in!). I think I would have been lynched sooner or later. :3

And what led you to believe that Beskie would flip out at Renata too? I think he got a little "meh" with the game after his death, and I feel the circumstances of Shadow Fort might have contributed to that. I don't think his death had the impact you desired, at any rate.

My own suspects included Psychonaut, Subotan and Thermal, to varying extents across the course of the game. I did feel that at this late stage we were still looking at two mafia alive, and never had Chaotix pegged down as scum... I felt he was a weak lynch. The Subotan reasoning was excellent, though, exactly how I would have voted to the letter. Good job on that one. :3

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Naturally, I'm really curious about the orders for Night Six, where you ordered the kills on myself and Beskar as detailed below:



How come you two felt that I would never be lynched? I guess I'm jumping the gun a little but I was under the impression that until I died, I was very much in the town's list of suspects, or Sasaki's in the very least (never a good list to be in!). I think I would have been lynched sooner or later. :3

I'd put you on my innocent list actually. Easy on easy off. I decided shlin was innocent the same way that day.

[Chaotix]

Naturally, I'm really curious about the orders for Night Six, where you ordered the kills on myself and Beskar as detailed below:



How come you two felt that I would never be lynched? I guess I'm jumping the gun a little but I was under the impression that until I died, I was very much in the town's list of suspects, or Sasaki's in the very least (never a good list to be in!). I think I would have been lynched sooner or later. :3

And what led you to believe that Beskie would flip out at Renata too? I think he got a little "meh" with the game after his death, and I feel the circumstances of Shadow Fort might have contributed to that. I don't think his death had the impact you desired, at any rate.

My own suspects included Psychonaut, Subotan and Thermal, to varying extents across the course of the game. I did feel that at this late stage we were still looking at two mafia alive, and never had Chaotix pegged down as scum... I felt he was a weak lynch. The Subotan reasoning was excellent, though, exactly how I would have voted to the letter. Good job on that one. :3

The way I saw it in the thread, it appeared as if you were making a lot of posts, good analysis, and pressuring those that you thought were mafia. Which is, well, dangerous. And then, even though you were being active, you had garnered hardly any votes, and nobody was calling you out on it. It seemed like the town genuinely did not think you were mafia (except for Kage, but he was under suspicion himself), and on top of that you were a threat if you started looking into more of the lurking posters.

The Beskar kill was because he had been seemingly suspicious of Renata all game- he was voting her and pressuring her more than anyone else, anyway. And the way he is, I thought he might think that it was Renata's way of getting rid of him while still framing Pizza and at the same time killing you, Secura- so we had the pseudo/joke-couple thing in there, too.



It seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Secura]

The way I saw it in the thread, it appeared as if you were making a lot of posts, good analysis, and pressuring those that you thought were mafia. Which is, well, dangerous. And then, even though you were being active, you had garnered hardly any votes, and nobody was calling you out on it. It seemed like the town genuinely did not think you were mafia (except for Kage, but he was under suspicion himself), and on top of that you were a threat if you started looking into more of the lurking posters.

You flatter me, this might be the best comment I've recieved about my playing style since I came here... thank you. I personally wanted to be killed, as it would relieve me of any pressure and still allow me to contribute towards town discussion, but I had this feeling that my thoughts would generally be ignored, and kept them to myself. As I said, though, I never had you down as mafia at all, although Subotan was on my list of suspects.

The Beskar kill was because he had been seemingly suspicious of Renata all game- he was voting her and pressuring her more than anyone else, anyway. And the way he is, I thought he might think that it was Renata's way of getting rid of him while still framing Pizza and at the same time killing you, Secura- so we had the pseudo/joke-couple thing in there, too.

When I asked Beskie who he thought it was, he said Centurion1! I think at that time I was angling towards Pizza, thinking the references to him in the writeups were simply a clever wine-laden, smoke-covered gambit designed to throw the town off, but as the references became more persistent and somewhat transparant I just completely absolved him of any culpability in my mind; it felt as though the town was going to waste a lynch on him at some point... I'm glad they decided against it.

Beskie and I did joke that it would be funny if Pizza and Sasaki were both the mafia, though; two of the best players here, nearly always suspected by someone and yet both of them alive as the game reached the denouement... it was quite the surprise.

[Subotan]

Wait, isn't this the second time that "Bess" has cropped up?

v
Andres, meanwhile, was trying to break away from the grip of the man who had snatched him away from his group. The rain in this case was a double-edged sword; he was able to break free, but always slipped and fell when he tried to run away.

"Curse this weather!" he cried aloud. It seemed like the wind would take this one as well, but his kidnapper seemed to hear it. Andres could see an unearthly glow in this man's eyes, his yellow, remaining teeth grinning eerily.

A flash of lightning illuminated even more features about this man, Andres noticed. Most striking out of all of them was a blunderbuss, pointed directly at him. The sheer absurdity and shock of it all overwhelmed Andres, who began to cackle.

"What? You really expect that thing to work?" Andres burst out between bouts of hysterical laughter.

The figure said nothing, only drawing closer.

"Be... be ye kiddin' me?" he said, the laughter a bit more nervous this time.

The figure said nothing.

"Come on!" he finally shouted, ready to finally crack from all the pressure he had been under the past few days. "The Almighty Himself be takin' a shower right now in this! No way that thing can stand up and still work!"

Finally, the figure spoke. "Bess?" he said gruffly. "Bess don't care 'bout gettin' wet." He then pulled the trigger, and Bess's mouth erupted in a brief flash of fire.

The last thing Andres noticed before he died, his blood being quickly washed away by the rain, was how much Bess's nozzle, smoking afterwards, reminded him of a woman enjoying some tobacco after finishing the physical act of love.

[GeneralHankerchief]

IIRC, that was KukriKhan's name for his blunderbuss, unfortunately. Still interesting though.

[GeneralHankerchief]

While we wait for the commentary, here's an essay for you all to chew on. This is my standard "state of the Gameroom" essay that I do after all of my games, and luckily this only happens once every few months so you don't get a chance to be subject to my blathering too often. This one's about a subject close to my heart.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I’ll discuss this more in my commentary, but it’s worth pointing out again that I had not hosted a game in my Mafia series since June 2008, an almost two-year break. In that time, a lot about the Gameroom has changed. There’s been an almost complete turnover of the regulars since then, for one thing. For an old dinosaur like me, it’s pretty startling when the majority of the players don’t have any connection with a series with as much history to it as Mafia does. This saddens me a little bit for a couple of reasons. One, I happen to like vanilla games. It’s how I made my bones in the Gameroom and a lot of my best memories here come from vanilla games. Two, nobody seems to be picking up where I leave off, for reasons that I’ll explain later. Three, as we have demonstrated here, as well as in Godfather 3, vanilla games are a great way to improve your play on both sides. In this essay, I’ll describe how we got here and what this means for the Gameroom.

Back in the beginning (2006), the great majority of the games hosted were either vanilla or very close to it. This was the case for a couple of reasons. First of all, there was either no queue or very few willing hosts. As a result, you had me hosting five large games in a five-to-six month period. There really wasn’t enough demand for the kind of games we see nowadays. Secondly, the very first non-vanilla game, “Gotta Have More Mafia” had a ton of roles and, while entertaining, was widely seen as confusing and not really worth it when you already had the simple-but-effective setup of the vanilla games. By that point, there had already been what I consider the first truly “great” game of the Gameroom: Mafia III. It was that game which made me finally realize that this thing wasn’t going to be just a flash in the pan. Why bother overly exerting yourself as a host when enough drama can come from the simple setups?

As a result, when hosts did opt for more elaborate setups, it was usually in moderation. The greatest example of this was Silver Rusher’s Godfather series. Designed to be a bridge between my vanilla Mafia series and the more role-intensive Gotta Have More Mafia, “The Godfather” was widely seen as a success and its sequel, Godfather 2, is still my favorite game I’ve ever been a player in. It’s worthy to note that “The Godfather” series is now considered vanilla.

As the Gameroom received more traffic and there were more players willing to try their hand at hosting, they all wanted to occupy their own special niches. The “vanilla” niche, my niche, was already occupied, and so everyone else went for more role-heavy games. Another side effect of the Gameroom’s growth was that, because of the queue, I got to host less, thus providing less opportunity to continue the vanilla tradition.

2007 saw the first installment Seamus Fermanagh’s Capo di Tutti Capi series, the hallmarks of which were a wide variety of roles and the fact that every player now had something to do every night phase, as opposed to just waiting out the nights to see if they had survived. Capo I shattered all kinds of participation records and brought in a huge amount of players and interest into the Gameroom. I hosted Mafia VI immediately afterwards, but after that, I was not able to host for several months, by far the longest I’d ever had to wait.

After Mafia VII, in the fall of 2007, I took some time off from the Gameroom due to overload, participating in very few games. In the meantime, traffic continued to grow. Sigurd’s Midgard Saga premiered, another very role-heavy game that drew a lot of interest. By the time I returned, Capo II started and was immediately followed up by Netherworld Mafia. By now the waits on the Queue were long enough where most hosts were putting a lot of work into their games, trying to tweak it so everything was exactly right. They had more time to put in a lot of roles and still make sure everything was balanced, in short. When Mafia VIII came around, I had not hosted in about nine months.

As we approach the present day, I need to say less. Role-heavy games were still prevalent. Activity exploded in early 2009 with a string of excellent games. After a failed attempt at hosting Pirate Ship Mafia, I decided to try my hand at resurrecting the Godfather series, eschewing Mafia IX. After that, we had The Settlement, Inishmore, Rubicon, and Capo III. Then I did Pirate Ship Mafia, successfully this time. And thus, the nine-month break between Mafias VII and VIII became a twenty-month break between VIII and IX.

Again, due to niches and the Gameroom’s new preference for having something to do at night, there were really no vanilla games in that long gap. Everyone else figured that was my niche, and I personally wanted to break out of my niche and try other things as well after three years and eight games of doing the exact same thing.

So, coming back to March and April of 2010, we had almost a vacuum of sorts. Out of the 34 players signed up for Mafia IX, only 14 had played in a previous game in the Mafia series. A handful more played in Godfather 3. During a conversation I had with one of the new players, that player informed that, while they were personally very excited and intrigued about the game, at least one other didn’t really see how the mafia could ever be caught without any pro-town roles being present. At first, I despaired, wondering if natural progress had left my beloved series in the evolutionary dustbin, but then I realized that this was exactly what I wanted. By way of this game being around, I could hopefully teach the nonbelievers about the value of vanilla games; educate them on the perks of analysis and give them the benefit of dramatic endgames like had been done in games past.

I think that’s been done, for the most part. While the endgame wasn’t quite on the level as it was in the past, Subotan eventually met his doom due to good townie behavior: taking the initiative, doing your own in-thread detective work. The town had to sink or swim, and they decided to swim. It’s my hope that the players here will see that they’re not handicapped by the pro-town roles and they have not just a hope, but a very good chance, of catching the mafia if they put their minds to it.

In an ideal world, there would be one vanilla game every couple of months or so in order to keep the players’ instincts sharp and to allow new blood to experience one fairly on in their Gameroom experiences. However, I know those days are long gone. It’s still my niche, even though it was the first time I had hosted one in three games and my next game will also be role-intensive. I guess it will always be my niche.

Therefore, it’s up to everybody to look to this game, as well as the other vanilla games in the past, as an example of how to be a good player. Otherwise, the town’s crutch of pro-town roles will just grow heavier and heavier, and nobody will be able to fathom even playing a vanilla mafia game out of fear that it’s unwinnable. And, aside from the meta implications of this, it would also simply be a crying shame.

[Renata]

Nice essay. :)

Honestly, if I could host any games at all I would quite happily join you in your niche. I love vanilla games. My own concern at the outset of yours was two-fold: the number of mafia roles being so small, and the lack of death reveals that removes some of the possible analysis that could otherwise be done. I'm a believer now, though; I think it worked out quite well. (Even though if I could ever run something like this myself, I would most likely have death reveals!)

Vanilla games and mini-games, both of which I love as much as all but the very best role-intensive games, share the quality that if the town *as a whole* doesn't work for the win, they won't win. Both require close attention, and looking for the motivations behind words. Both require bold moves and leaps of faith in ways that role-heavy games don't necessarily. (Even mini-games with roles tend to share these qualities by virtue of them being so short. There's just not the time for pro-town roles to have the impact they do in larger games. The regular townies can't afford to wait for them.) This is what makes them so much fun for me to play.

(I can't host because I could never commit to the schedule. Me doing a write-up on a weekend? Hahahahahaha. But I would certainly play in more games like this if someone did offer them.)

[atheotes]

Night 2 kills. Sorry atheotes and Double A!

Dont worry... i got you back first night in Shakespearean mafia...

Good game town

[Chaotix]

Yeah, the weapons got a bit ridiculous at the end. I think I gave subtle hints to my mafia colleagues saying as much when I had the "door-to-door" mafioso (always Subotan's personality, btw) ask out loud how you manage to kill someone with a cheese grater and the a round later when he told his target that he had come to beat them to death with a rolling pin.

Bessie provided a nice outlet for my frustration though. I deliberately left her fate ambiguous at the end just in case someone decides to bring her back one day.

Apologies for that. Both were my ideas.

I thought of the cheese grater and rolling pin as more "pizza" tools. Particularly with the cheese grater I had an image in my mind of the target's face being graphically grated off. The rolling pin kill was pretty much exactly what I expected, though.

I'll get those PMs structured into a nice post now...

EDIT: Pic of a cheese grater. Those holes are sharp! Imagine having that thing scraped across your face.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It was you behind all that rampant Pizza WIFOM?

I'm going to get you back for that someday. I don't know when or how, but I've got your number my friend. You're going down!