A bad thing? Colour Blind state + restrictions of freedom of speech.

[al Roumi]

I agree it's extremely tough.

This shows where what is in practice easy to see, but to write down as legislation is far more difficult; conversely merely the existence of legislation does not guarantee fairness.

"the existence of legislation does not guarantee fairness." This is exactly the case in France, where non-French (or more specificaly, North African) sounding names put one at a significant disadvantage when it comes to employment. Legislation cannot overcome latent racism single-handedly.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

"the existence of legislation does not guarantee fairness." This is exactly the case in France, where non-French (or more specificaly, North African) sounding names put one at a significant disadvantage when it comes to employment. Legislation cannot overcome latent racism single-handedly.

The find that even with like third-generation families?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The find that even with like third-generation families?

This is a good question. in the USA, the immigrant story was almost always a hard one and assimilation was often a very grudign process. On the other hand, after two or three generations, a good deal of integration DID occur. Sasaki is, therefore, pointing up the possibility that this is a "normal" transition for these relatively recent immigrants by asking if discrimination is still being experienced by groups that have been there a bit. Can anyone speak to this?

[Louis VI the Fat]

This is a good question. in the USA, the immigrant story was almost always a hard one and assimilation was often a very grudign process. On the other hand, after two or three generations, a good deal of integration DID occur. Sasaki is, therefore, pointing up the possibility that this is a "normal" transition for these relatively recent immigrants by asking if discrimination is still being experienced by groups that have been there a bit. Can anyone speak to this?

Modern France has had massive immigration for two centuries now. French women simply do not want to spoil their figure by procreating. French demography is very different from the European standard. There has been massive immigration, including a large non-white population since the days the Three Musketeers was written by a Black Frenchman in the early 19th century.

Most European immigrant groups have been assimilated. (Those who couldn't afford a ticket to the Americas went to France - Poles, Belgians, Germans, Savoyans in the 19th century. Romanians, Jews fleeing to the most philo-Semitic country in Europe, Armenians fleeing after the genocide of 1915, a million refugees each from the Portuguese and Spanish dictatorships. Italians beyond numbers throughout the last two centuries, or millenia. Plus the enitre legacy that comes from having been a dominant linguistic and cultural centre for a long time).

Blacks and Beurs have a long history too. There are large numbers of fourth, fifth generation Blacks and Beurs. There is also a large beurgeoisie. A middle class of educated, thriving Muslims. Exogamy is very high - a third of Algerian women marry Frenchmen. (Frenchwomen are less prone to marry Muslim men. The gap is offset by Frenchwomen marrying Black men. The final pieces are solved by the surplus of Muslim men importing brides, and the surplus of Black women having to endure polygamous relationships - their Black boyfriend will have another black girlfriend on the side)

I digress.

Job application forms with Arabic sounding names are very prone to not receive an invitation. There are several studies, and the conclusions are rather discomforting.

Assimilation of West and North Africans has largely failed. I am tempted to ascibe this to the impossibility of physically assimilating. A Black person is always immediately recognisable as of immigrant origin, a Romanian not.
Oh well, for better or for worse, France is rapidly turning into a Brazil. Mixed-race is by far the fastest growing etnic group.
I said 'tempted', because there are also large numbers of Vietnamese, Chinese and Indian (mostly through Islands in the Indian Ocean). While of different levels of assimilation, all these groups are thriving and are doing well.

~~o~~o~~<<oOo>>~~o~~o~~

Sure this guy says that non-white Frenchmen are more likely to commit crimes, which may or may not be true.

Métro line 13. It takes you from the centre of Paris to the northern suburbs. You'll have to take a bus further northeast for even more fun in 'interesting' neighbourhoods.

Good luck!

real discrimination and economic injustice carries on unabated. Real integration into French society is only going to come about when the economic opportunities that are available to white Frenchmen are also available to beurs.

There is widespread racism in France. As the example of job application letters with Arabic names shows.


Yet, three appartment buildings, one in the 13th/southeast of Paris, the other in the East, the third in the North. The first is inhabited by Chinese and Vietnamese, the second by North Africans, the third by West Africans. Each enjoys some of Europe's best and generous healthcare, education, housing and social benefits.
In a decade, the first looks like a mini thriving Asian town. Clean and bustling. The second is troubled, restless, unsafe even for police or medics. The third looks like a warzone, crime infested, drugs-ridden, completely run down.

Le Monde, this Monday, ran a special about drugs in a northeast suburb. Shocking, shocking, shocking.

There are Russian, Serbian, Indian, Jewish, American neighbourhoods in Paris too. They look just like the neighbourhoods inhabited by these cultures in any other cities in the world, from capitalist North American cities, to the brutal Latin American cities, to the socialist paradises of Northern Europe. One would be tempted to think that the social and political system of the host country is not the most determining variable.