Dutch Marines Shove Wooden Shoe up Pirate posterior: Give Finger to EU

[Vladimir]

Yes, it is - and has been for a couple of centuries. Barbarism merely creates more barbarism.

You know better.

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Barbary_War

[Banquo's Ghost]

You know better.

You might do well to actually read what you linked, because it really doesn't support your view on ignoring legal process. Also, having an actual state leader to work with helps enormously, not to mention relying on the protection of the British.

[al Roumi]

You might do well to actually read what you linked, because it really doesn't support your view on ignoring legal process. Also, having an actual state leader to work with helps enormously, not to mention relying on the protection of the British.

Avast me hearty! I was just going to say the same, having read through both wikis. Somalia is a truer power vacuum than the Barbary coast -the pirates themselves have probably more resources than anyone on the mainland who might be able hold them to account or reign them in...

[Vladimir]

I don't have a view on ignoring legal processes. The links aren't about establishing a legal argument against piracy, which is pretty much illegal everywhere in Europe (in less you're English). This isn't about establishing legal processes to impose law on the lawless. It's about taking action against common and undisciplined pirates.

Clearly you will both see what you want to. The fact that there isn't a legitimate government government to enforce its authority doesn't mean other nations can't take action. Good luck with establishing a strong central government in Somalia. Until then lives and money will be lost because of these attacks. Perhaps you think the Moro pirates are a better example.

[al Roumi]

I don't have a view on ignoring legal processes. The links aren't about establishing a legal argument against piracy, which is pretty much illegal everywhere in Europe (in less you're English). This isn't about establishing legal processes to impose law on the lawless. It's about taking action against common and undisciplined pirates.

Indeed, piracy is illegal. Invading territory without a legitimate cassus belli (or UN mandate) is also illegal.

Finding and applying a legitimate legal solution is the challenge, otherwise any action taken is likely to cause more problems -even if it solves the immediate piracy one.

Somali (there was also some Yemeni?) piracy is a big legal headache for anyone trying to deal with it (questions of sovereignty, jurisdiction, responsability, legitimacy and accountability) -hence why it was easier for the Dutch force to circumvent the EU mission and its red-tape (inevitable for any multilateral mission).

But perhaps you don't think sovereignty, jurisdiction, responsability, legitimacy and accountability are worth considering?

[Vladimir]

Indeed, piracy is ilegal. Invading territory without a legitimate cassus belli (or UN mandate) is also illegal.

Finding and applying a legitimate legal solution is the challenge, otherwise any action taken is likely to cause more problems -even if it solves the immediate piracy one.

Somali (there was also some Yemeni?) piracy is a big legal headache for anyone trying to deal with it (questions of sovereignty, jurisdiction, responsability, legitimacy and accountability) -hence why it was easier for the Dutch force to circumvent the EU mission and its red-tape (inevitable for any multilateral mission).

But perhaps you don't think sovereignty, jurisdiction, responsability, legitimacy and accountability are worth considering?

Hopefully I don't sound too harsh. I'm not seriously advocating a ground invasion or a good old fashioned Roman massacre. Clearly these pirates control ports, areas of land, and naval assets. In the age of satellite imagery and remote control drones it is easy to identify who the bad actors are and destroy whatever necessary to halt the attacks. I'd prefer a peaceful solution but these attacks will continue into the foreseeable future.

This is a profitable business. I shudder to think where all the money from these raids is going. The more time we give them, the more time they have to organize, upgrade, and cause harm.

[al Roumi]

This is a profitable business. I shudder to think where all the money from these raids is going. The more time we give them, the more time they have to organize, upgrade, and cause harm.

Land Cruisers and wives I seem to remember reading... I understand the massive payouts the piracy has provided have completely inflated the local bride-prices (dowry), pricing out non-pirates and driving up the reasons to engage in a bit of filibustering... No source to hand, but will see if I can get one at some point.

[Fragony]

But perhaps you don't think sovereignty, jurisdiction, responsability, legitimacy and accountability are worth considering?

Dutch army aren't cowboys, there has to be a very good reason if they consider using deadly force. Does raise the question of why here and why now, passengers weren't in acute danger so what's on the ship.

[rvg]

Well done, Dutchies. Well done indeed.