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Thread: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

  1. #31
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    A timely article
    The day trip to Calais was supposed to be the perfect treat for a deserving mother-in-law.
    And for the first leg of the trip - the 300 miles from Merseyside to Dover - it was.
    But that is about as far as she got - because her son-in-law and daughter somehow managed to sail for France without her.

    It was only while being ferried across the Channel as foot passengers that they realised their mistake.
    Frantic, they called Dover police who found the 'confused' lady still sitting in the back seat of their parked car.

    Officers said the unnamed woman, who was in her 70s and from Bootle, had been in the vehicle for six hours.
    A police source said yesterday: 'The couple simply forgot about her when they put the ticket on the car. The trip was meant to be a treat, but it turned into a nightmare.
    Fortunately, mother-in-laws have a better heat regulation system than toddlers...
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  2. #32
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Fortunately??

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  3. #33
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post

    But do we really know that this isn't his plan to kill his offspring without going to jail....?
    That's why those doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists have a job. They should be able to determine whether it was intentional or not. I don't know, really. I don't have a kid but my brother has a 3 months old girl. If, God forbid, my negligence caused something to happen to her, I don't believe I could live with myself, I'd blow my brains out.

    This man, if sincere, needs help, not punishment.

  4. #34
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Allright, how 'bout this:

    I'm driving down a road, while talking in the phone. Let's say I'm having a heartrending brake-up conversation with a (hypothetical atm) girlfriend. Out from the bushes on the right side of the car, your toddler jumps out.

    I hit him, he dies.

    I had absolutely no intention to kill your 2-year old. My only crime was being distracted by my bitch of an ex who tought it would be brilliant to brake up over the phone. I am clearly remorseful.

    Are we cool?



    I'll answer it myself; no, we're most definitely not cool. Your kid is dead. I killed him. My negligent behaviour resulted in the death of your beloved son, that's the truth. If I had paid attention to what was important, the road, instead of yelling at my ex, your son would've lived. I did not, and your kid is dead.

    Just like this mans kid is dead because of his negligent behaviour.
    I take your point, and this hypthetical is more parallel to the situations described in the article, but I am still unsure that you would deserve further punitive damage. Not quite sure what could/should be done to prevent you from doing something similar again.


    Quote Originally Posted by hortore
    But do we really know that this isn't his plan to kill his offspring without going to jail....?
    If there is ANY reasonable evidence that this was a planned event, then it changes categories to pre-meditated murder and the perpetrator should recieve life in prison without possibility of parole. The willful and pre-meditated killing of a child runs counter to all law, morality, and survival sense. Had any such evidence existed, I am certain the prosecutors involved would have taken an entirely different approach.
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  5. #35

    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    If you've ever driven a car, you're as negligent as these parents were. Everyone has had moments where they get a bit distracted.

    Human memory and capacity for paying attention are limited. Accidents happen. There has to be a certain extra amount of negligence for the crime to be there.

  6. #36
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    For a crime to be a crime, there has to be intention. If I slip and bump into somebody, pushing him off a bridge, I haven't commited a crime. If I give the exact same push with the intention to do so, I've comitted manslaughter.

    In the 'kids left in cars' cases, there is a grey area between neglicence, carelessnes, and simple absent-mindedness. This article, that is its achievement, shows that rather less careless neglicence could be involved in many of these cases than one would expect at first sight. I´m still spooked by it, and happy I do not have a child under my supervision. I have the same feeling I have when listening to Eric Clapton´s ´Tears in Heaven´, which I find a harrowing song.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    If you've ever driven a car, you're as negligent as these parents were. Everyone has had moments where they get a bit distracted.

    Human memory and capacity for paying attention are limited. Accidents happen. There has to be a certain extra amount of negligence for the crime to be there.
    I believe there's a legal maxim to the effect of 'gross negligence is deliberateness, gross deliberateness is intention, gross intention is malice'.

    Or something like that, both my English and legalese are failing me here.
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  7. #37
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    If you've ever driven a car, you're as negligent as these parents were. Everyone has had moments where they get a bit distracted.

    Human memory and capacity for paying attention are limited. Accidents happen. There has to be a certain extra amount of negligence for the crime to be there.
    He was preoccupied with other things than driving a car.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  8. #38
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    You seem to think all these people did it on purpose as some grand scheme to rid themselves of their child.
    No, I never once said that. However, it isn't a "simple slip-up", It is complete and utter negligence of the worst kind. My point is, these people cannot be excused for what they did as it isn't a "simple mistake". I believe any punishment should reflect the case-by-case basis, but it should be made very clear that these are "poor souls who are a victim to curcumstance", they are victim to their own incompentance and negigilence.
    Last edited by Beskar; 04-14-2010 at 23:07.
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  9. #39
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    I have to say though, it does sound like people are starting to see imprisonment as something that doesn't work....

    So far only if the person in question is very sorry, but still, the anarchist in my likes this...
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  10. #40
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Coincidentally enough, the article explains the reasons for Beskar's and Horetore's anger:
    "This is a case of pure evil negligence of the worse kind . . . He deserves the death sentence."

    "I wonder if this was his way of telling his wife that he didn't really want a kid."

    "He was too busy chasing after real estate commissions. This shows how morally corrupt people in real estate-related professions are."

    These were readers' online comments to The Washington Post news article of July 10, 2008, reporting the circumstances of the death of Miles Harrison's son. These comments were typical of many others, and they are typical of what happens again and again, year after year in community after community, when these cases arise. A substantial proportion of the public reacts not merely with anger, but with frothing vitriol.

    Ed Hickling believes he knows why. Hickling is a clinical psychologist from Albany, N.Y., who has studied the effects of fatal auto accidents on the drivers who survive them. He says these people are often judged with disproportionate harshness by the public, even when it was clearly an accident, and even when it was indisputably not their fault.

    Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible.

    In hyperthermia cases, he believes, the parents are demonized for much the same reasons. "We are vulnerable, but we don't want to be reminded of that. We want to believe that the world is understandable and controllable and unthreatening, that if we follow the rules, we'll be okay. So, when this kind of thing happens to other people, we need to put them in a different category from us. We don't want to resemble them, and the fact that we might is too terrifying to deal with. So, they have to be monsters."
    The political alignment of the angry posters with black and white views on this issues versus those seeing the nuances are intriguing.

    CR
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  11. #41

    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible.

    In hyperthermia cases, he believes, the parents are demonized for much the same reasons. "We are vulnerable, but we don't want to be reminded of that. We want to believe that the world is understandable and controllable and unthreatening, that if we follow the rules, we'll be okay. So, when this kind of thing happens to other people, we need to put them in a different category from us. We don't want to resemble them, and the fact that we might is too terrifying to deal with. So, they have to be monsters."
    I don't know if this explanation hits the mark exactly, it's a bit overblown. Is it a fundamental need, or is it simple intuition? Do we not believe we could make this kind of mistake because it's too terrifying to consider, or does it just not occur to us because it seems so unlikely?

    I think the vitriol is a combination of people being unaware of how their own mind works + enjoying spouting vitriol for some reason.

  12. #42
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    The political alignment of the angry posters with black and white views on this issues versus those seeing the nuances are intriguing.

    CR
    I never suggested they should have the death penalty. I only said that in any way, you shouldn't babytalk around it and simply state it for what it is. It isn't an "accident" nor "simple slip" nor "absent mindedness". It is human life we are talking about here, not accidental dropping of the head of an ice-cream cone onto the floor.

    It is very demaning and degrading to human-life if you can happily prance around going "awww dimdums, leave baby in the car? there there, that is ok, nothing to worry about, tra la la la".
    Last edited by Beskar; 04-17-2010 at 22:53.
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  13. #43

    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Uhm, what political alignment exactly? Unless suddenly the Washington Post readers all fit the same political label... ?
    EDIT: Should perhaps add that lack of nuance in expressed views is hardly the exclusive privilege of a single political entity.
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 04-18-2010 at 01:42.
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  14. #44
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Article of American Journalism in 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Coincidentally enough, the article explains the reasons for Beskar's and Horetore's anger:


    The political alignment of the angry posters with black and white views on this issues versus those seeing the nuances are intriguing.

    CR
    Nonsense, CR.

    Rather than saying this guy is evil, I am saying that the people we usually brand as evil, ie. regular criminals, perhaps aren't that evil as we think they are. And that this guy is as "not evil" as a lot of those we condemn to several years in prison. I am all in favour of getting rid of the prison system, but it has to be done with everyone, not gradual for those "we like". The law has to treat everyone equally harsh.

    I'd dare the argument that the majority of criminals lost control over their actions and lives long before they committed the crime that sent them to jail. Heck, even high ranking Hells Angels-members are tired and living in fear, because they lost control years ago. Everything they do now they do to stay alive, they don't do bad things because they want to anymore, they do it because they have no other choice. They too deserve pity. A pity I cannot see that you would offer them, CR.

    But this other guy who killed someone because he lost control gets your sympathy. I see no moral high ground for you here.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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