StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded]

[Kagemusha]

Well if there is no way to collect data we are back to square one. We only have educated guesses and Beskies network that is clearly dysfunctional and wont share their data to the rest of us.In that case our only option is to kill the entire network to find the Sith amongst them. So as Beskar was the one creating his network why dont we start by resolving the problem from where it originated. Unvote and Vote: Beskar untill you spill out who was the person Secura mentioned who knew of your plans.

[Subotan]

Beskar has either gone rogue, or his network is severely compromised due to carelessness. Either way, we're going to get a Sith's head by the end of today.

Vote:Beskar

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well well well now. Hate to say "I told you so" but...

Vote: Beskar

[Secura]

I think you should wait to hear Beskar's suspicions about his investigation target before you start a runaway bandwagon on him.

[TinCow]

I agree that Beskar needs to answer more question.

Vote: Beskar

If you want me to remove my vote, you need to list your night actions every night. You claim to have all kinds of powers, including investigation, and yet you have not given us a single word about anything.

[TinCow]

I think you should wait to hear Beskar's suspicions about his investigation target before you start a runaway bandwagon on him.

This is bog-standard for early-game pro-town revealers. You get a few days of leeway, but if you don't prove yourself the votes start coming back. Since he revealed early, he has to produce to survive.

[pevergreen]

Vote: Beskar

[naut]

Vote: Subotan

I'm no fan of Dooku, but your post bugs me. GH I can understand, TinCow's post is reasonable. Yours however, assumes too much.

[Niklas]

I might as well put my money where my mouth currently is and vote: Beskar as well. It's time to talk.

[Subotan]

Both of those are the most likely outcomes. Either Beskar has converted, voluntarily or not, or there is a Sith in his network. The only other possibility is that we have a very lucky Sith, which is unlikely.

[Diamondeye]

I agree with the others. I strongly suspect that Beskar is not pro-town aligned, to the point where I'm willing to risk another failed lynch if he is still immune to the lynch.
Vote: Beskar

Also,
FoS: Niklas, Renata, Secura
For the reasons Renata mentioned herself.

[naut]

FoS: Everyone on the Beskar Bandwagon excluding TC and GH

Oh, hi, I'm the ticket inspector. Can I see your ticket please, or I'll have to to escort you off the bandwagon.

[Renata]

Ummm, what is this about Niklas? Fishing strongly? That's utter carp and you know it... I asked for his thoughts on the matter, that was all, not "LULZ WHO IZ IT NAOW".

Yikes, back off a tad. Niklas said you were fishing, and he clarified the extent of it just now.

I didn't know that Methos was Mace Windu; I spoke to him last night over MSN regarding Chinese Zodiac and Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and we discussed very little about this game; he can come back later to clarify. Furthermore, Beskar and myself have not discussed this game over the last twenty-four hours or so; he has been in a boastful mood about R&R HoF, and I don't really like talking to him about mafia when that is the case.

I'm sure you didn't know that Methos was Mace Windu, because I don't believe that even Beskar KNEW -- he merely had good reason to suspect. Therefore I'm not really interested in learning whether he told you that Methos was Mace Windu. Rather, I'd like to know if he ever linked that name and that player for you at all. He clearly told you that I knew who Mace Windu was, and there was plenty of evidence in public that Mace Windu was not a plain old townie. Did he ever speculate with you on who Mace Windu might be? Did he ever mention Methos' name at all?

Also, I'm really sorry if you are having any RL difficulties that make this all harder for you, but I can't let that be relevant, can I?

[Subotan]

Psycho, who should we be voting for then?

[autolycus]

vote:Beskar. Beskar, if you tell me what happened last night, I might consider changing this. Right now, if I read Secura's post right, you first told her not to talk to your scan target, then told her to talk to your scan target. Beskar and Secura, I'd also like to know who said target was to help inform our search for the Sith.

[naut]

Psycho, who should we be voting for then?

The fact this bandwagon is running away at full speed just lets the Sith hide in among everyone. Not really helpful at the moment.

[Secura]

Yikes, back off a tad. Niklas said you were fishing, and he clarified the extent of it just now.

I apologise, it's just really annoying to have to defend myself simply for being associated with Beskar; he's the Master pulling the strings, I'm little more than a vote each round.

Rather, I'd like to know if he ever linked that name and that player for you at all.

I was sat there when you told Beskar that you were in contact with a second Master; I also agreed with your reasoning (and Mace Windu's) for not revealing his identity when Beskar probed for it, which was why I requested Beskar add me to the conversation. I don't believe that you revealed the identity to him and I would have done the same.

Did he ever speculate with you on who Mace Windu might be? Did he ever mention Methos' name at all?

No, he never connected Methos' name to the role of Mace Windu, at least not to me directly. There might be a chance he did so to our suspect, however, but only Beskie himself can clarify that. I think, considering Swords and D20s 3 and Rock & Roll Hall of Fame that he might have guessed Methos was Mace Windu, though.

Also, I'm really sorry if you are having any RL difficulties that make this all harder for you, but I can't let that be relevant, can I?

It's no problem, don't worry about it, that's my job... it was a bit silly of me to even mention it, but I genuinely forgot his claim, because it seemed trivial and there were other things going on at the time.

[Kagemusha]

FoS: Everyone on the Beskar Bandwagon excluding TC and GH

Oh, hi, I'm the ticket inspector. Can I see your ticket please, or I'll have to to escort you off the bandwagon.

And what problems you see in my reasoning to vote Beskar?

[Secura]

Beskar and Secura, I'd also like to know who said target was to help inform our search for the Sith.

It was Pizza.

While I don't know the in's and out's of Beskar's reasoning, I do know that, while I was concerned for him when he grew annoyed by the mass of votes on him in the previous round, I was suspicious as to why he reached that point in the first place. I recalled Swords and D20s 3, where Pizza was the main villain, investigated in the first night and promptly killed during the next day phase. Remember that he loathes being metagamed regardless of his role, but the extent of his frustration didn't seem to correlate with him being a simple Initiate.

To add to that, Pizza was present when Csargo made his claim and he stood to claim the greatest benefit when we bandwagonned ACIN in his stead. Also, he is pretty intelligent and good at getting information out of people, and may well have either been told Methos was Mace Windu or figured it out of his own accord.

[Diamondeye]

FoS: Everyone on the Beskar Bandwagon excluding TC and GH

Oh, hi, I'm the ticket inspector. Can I see your ticket please, or I'll have to to escort you off the bandwagon.

Sure thing, Mister Inspector, it's right here:
FoS: Psycho, GH

[naut]

And what problems you see in my reasoning to vote Beskar?

You're missing the point. The first couple votes were to get Beskie to prove his investigative ability. Everyone after that point is seeing an opportunity to hide for a round and get to killing again.

[Subotan]

I highly doubt that Beskar is permanently unlynchable, especially if he is convertible.

[naut]

I highly doubt that Beskar is permanently unlynchable, especially if he is convertible.

Relevance? Sorry, just really out of context, and confusing to me.

[TinCow]

The fact this bandwagon is running away at full speed just lets the Sith hide in among everyone. Not really helpful at the moment.

I agree with this, there are currently enough votes to pressure him to talk. Further votes at this point only risk an in-reversible bandwagon even if his reply is satisfactory. I do not want that.

Unvote: Beskar; Vote: Abstain

Unvoting to try and keep this from becoming irreversible, but moving to abstain because I want the focus to remain on Beskar until he responds.

[Renata]

Or he is the leak himself...

Possibly. The single thing most in his favor right now is, I think, that he was aware that vig-killing could turn one to the Dark Side. (Methos confirmed this.) It appears from the latest write-up that the Sith can also be "called" the way some of the Jedi have been, and gain seemingly legitimate powers in that fashion. However, I'm hard pressed to believe the information about vig killing would be relevant to them -- would Sigurd include it anyway, just because legitimate Jedi would get it? Regardless -- does anyone know anything to suggest Beskar did not learn this from his own PM?

Out of your "group" or "network", who's the one who was most careless with information?

Beskar. He provoked Csargo's reveal. He mentioned he would be investigating a Csargo suspect last night. A few other things possibly, which I can't rule out as having been misdirection. Here's the Csargo chat, by the way:

Csargo Who doesn't want to float around in space?
Secura I get confused ¬_¬
Secura Me!
Secura I don't want to die in the cold vacuum :(
Beskar That reminds me, you might be floating around soon. But I heard you are lynch immune too, Csargo :-O
ATPG Ichigo, you say you want to die
ATPG no powers, then?
Csargo Who said anything about dieing?
Niklas Broberg says (9:13 AM):
Csargo I want to float around out there
Csargo and I was trying to save you from being bandwagoned
Csargo I thought I already told you that Beskar?
Beskar Oh, you did?

That's probably the Sith among you. From how it looks, it seems to be Beskar. It would also make sense for him to already kill off the masters he knows, since it's clear that he'll end up lynched sooner or later; so why restrain from killing known masters to save himself as he's virtually dead already.

Sure, though the same applies even more strongly to anyone who has access to enough of Beskar's information. Make hay while the sun shines, get Beskar lynched when he starts to become a liability, then eventually people get around to lynching you ... maybe.

As regards Beskar's contacts, despite appearances I don't know much about them. I wound up in that quoted convo with Csargo completely by accident, as far as I could tell. Beskar was grabbing almost anyone who came online, it seemed. When Methos revealed to me, he wanted to double-check some information with what Beskar was claiming without exposing himself; that's how Beskar came to know that I knew who Mace Windu was. So I know a fair amount surrounding those two things, but not much else otherwise. I don't know to what extent he truly has what can be claimed to be a pro-town network. At one point he told me even the expedition leader had not revealed to him directly, for instance. And of course Methos hadn't.

[Subotan]

Relevance? Sorry, just really out of context, and confusing to me.

Whoops, my fault, I thought that by

Everyone after that point is seeing an opportunity to hide for a round and get to killing again.

you meant that there was no point in lynching Beskie, as he would survive this say's lynch. Sorry, I can't think properly when I'm hungry.

[Renata]

Do you have any idea what this "previous engagement" the write-up mentions is about? It seems to suggest that his night action didn't get blocked... It would be nice to see the content of the pm Beskar received at the end of the night.

And yours', Renata's and Niklas'... And while we're at it, Belisarius II should share some info as well.

You seem to be implying by this that you think I have received a night-end PM at some point. I will clarify on that point if you can tell me why it's more worthwhile to the town to reveal such things than it would be to the mafia to learn it.

[Secura]

It would be nice to see the content of the pm Beskar received at the end of the night.

And yours', Renata's and Niklas'.

Revealing orders, if I had any, in-thread would seem foolish, no?

[Renata]

I was sat there when you told Beskar that you were in contact with a second Master; I also agreed with your reasoning (and Mace Windu's) for not revealing his identity when Beskar probed for it, which was why I requested Beskar add me to the conversation.

Right, I had forgotten about that. It seemed as if you were in support of me not giving the name, whereas Beskar was pressing for it.

I don't believe that you revealed the identity to him and I would have done the same.

No, he never connected Methos' name to the role of Mace Windu, at least not to me directly. There might be a chance he did so to our suspect, however, but only Beskie himself can clarify that. I think, considering Swords and D20s 3 and Rock & Roll Hall of Fame that he might have guessed Methos was Mace Windu, though.

Who is "he" in this last sentece? Beskar or your suspect? And how are you getting from those two games to Methos=Mace?

In any case Beskar clearly did link Methos to Mace, or he wouldn't have fished for confirmation in such a brazen way as he did.

[Andres]

This is bog-standard for early-game pro-town revealers. You get a few days of leeway, but if you don't prove yourself the votes start coming back. Since he revealed early, he has to produce to survive.

Indeed. Beskar only has himself to blame. If he turns out to be pro-town, then this should be a lesson for all of us: don't reveal unless it's a) absolutely necessary for your survival; b) if you have gathered intel for town, e.g. conclusive evidence that somebody is mafioso.