I am inorz!
Not this time/ GAH!!
"Blacker than a moonless night. Hotter and more bitter than Hell itself… that is coffee."
I never said anything of the sort. I agreed that there was evidence piled up against Belisaurus, and had it come down to the wire I would have voted for Belisaurus. But I did not like at all the way some of the exact same people who had chastised the players who had voted for Beskar, perfectly reasonably, were the same people who let loose a bandwagon on Belisaurus, piling up an unnecessary amount of votes when he hadn't been given a chance to respond.* Even if some of the people I'm referring to who voted for Belisaurus aren't scum buddies, that's unfair and bad sportsmanship, especially seeing as Belisaurus is a new player on the .Org.
*See: I agree with this, there are currently enough votes [on Beskar] to pressure [Beskar] to talk. Further votes at this point only risk an in-reversible bandwagon even if his reply is satisfactory. I do not want that. - Tincow
The responses from Secura, Renata, and Subotan are satisfactory and consistent with their statements at the time. That leaves Niklas. He is the worst of the bunch. He first lodged a vote against Belisarius and then reversed himself only 14 posts later, claiming that the bandwagon made him uncomfortable. Yet when he made his original vote, he was the sixth voter on Belisarius and solidly into the bandwagon numbers. The only thing that had changed since then was a post by Subotan objecting to the bandwagon and some questions about why people were voting for Belisarius. Essentially, when there was a temporary plateau in the bandwagon and the momentum slowed, Niklas jumped ship. When he originally voted, he hedged his bets considerably with the lines: "With no really strong conviction" and "I fear we are lynching a new guy for being inexperienced here." When he switched his vote back to Beskar, he hedged them again with the equally wishy-washy statement "Since the bandwagon on Belisarius seems to be doing just fine without me" and gave his reason for voting Beskar as "only a stubborn, contrary statement."
What that all adds up to is a whole lot of saying nothing while attempting to blend into the arguments. This also meshes with his 'names list' which makes him look like he was doing some serious work to help the town, but doesn't actually do anything useful.
FOS: Niklas
Last edited by TinCow; 04-20-2010 at 20:10.
There was references to an ancient Holocron, which hasn't been claimed either in private or in public to be Sith at all in any nature. Chaotix could have assumed it was a Sith Holocron mistakenly.
Now if he said "The Sith have used the Holocron" then this is a completely different point, as I believe there hasn't been any Sith contact with it. (Due to lack of a mentioning of it.)
Last edited by Beskar; 04-20-2010 at 20:14.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Happy Andres? :pOriginally Posted by Beskar
Rebut how? That wasn't really the meat of the accusation to my mind anyway. Not bringing it forth could have had an interesting (and entertaining) reaction too, when he quoted the exchange (or didn't as it turned out).
It's not contrived, it's a standard mafia game ploy, although it's probably fallen out of use recently.
You were fine with it yesterday:
FoS: Tincow
Also, Beskar, I find your defense of Chaotix worrying. Why trying to belittle the impact a sith holocron would have? Could it be that you've already told us you were awakened by a holocron that might just be the one and same?
If God is great, and if God is good, why can't he change the hearts of men?"
-Tom Waits, "The Road to Peace"
Why FOS TinCow, Diamondeye?
Perhaps not to you, but it was what tipped me over the edge of voting Belisarious, after Beskar told me about it. Prior to that (though I never mentioned it here), the manner in which Belisarius defended himself had me leaning toward him just being a new townie.Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Fair enough, you'll have my response as well. It will also give me a chance to bring some things out in the public that I think may shed some light on what happened last night.
For starters, you are operating from the assumption that everything that happens does so here in the thread. That's quite far from the truth. During the time you reference there was extensive communication via private channels, primarily IM. There was also over an hour between my "wishy-washy" statements, more than enough for me to regret my first decision. Also the main reason that made me switch back again, even though few votes had been cast in between, was Sigurd's tally which made it clear just how strong the bandwagon was.
Nothing of what was said last night is in any way of the form that it needs to be kept from the public, so here is a recollection. Note that I am in Sweden, same time zone as the host, for the sake of referencing the times I post.
My first vote on Beskar, early on in the evening, was originally a pressure vote to make him talk. There was genuine concern behind it though, it wasn't just pressure, as others (such as Secura and Renata) could confirm. I don't mind relating my thoughts on the subject yet again, but for starters you'll find it coinciding on many points with what Andres posted.
19:00 - Beskar claims in thread about receiving a list of names from "Obi-Wan Kenobi". Some time later this list is apparently passed around in private to some people, including Renata. She and I begin talking about it:
A few minutes later I post The Names List, which indeed wasn't overly helpful to town, but I also never claimed it was.19:46:40 Renata: most of them are dead or otherwise known, via the write-ups
19:46:56 Renata: leaving a dozen or so
19:48:17 Niklas: are those dozen or so the top names you'd expect to find?
19:48:30 Niklas: i.e. Palpatine, Qui-Gon, Anakin, etc
19:48:30 Renata: mostly no
19:48:38 Niklas: interesting
19:48:45 Niklas: so it's not a "guess a name" ability then
19:48:56 Renata: all those are in there, but there are plenty of off the wall ones also
19:49:24 Renata: or well, a couple anyway
19:49:58 Renata: sifo dyas, for example
19:50:05 Niklas: ne'er heard of
19:50:09 Renata: me either
19:50:21 Renata: those are not the majority though
19:50:27 Renata: not even close
[we drift off to haiku mafia a bit]
19:53:55 Niklas: oh, beskar posted the names in thread
19:54:21 Renata: yeah, just saw
19:55:47 Renata: dhidhal niz is one of the dead correct?
19:56:33 Niklas: aye, TheFlax
19:58:41 Niklas: only four surprise names for me on that list
19:58:52 Niklas: Sifo Dyas, Atris, Corran Horn, Tahiri Veila
19:59:14 Niklas: all others were mentioned in thread, or hot shots
19:59:31 Niklas: as in obi-wan, yoda, qui-gon, palpatine, luke and anakin
19:59:48 Niklas: so in total, 10 names not mentioned in the list
20:00:06 Niklas: and only 4 of those being "non-trivial"
20:00:06 Renata: ok you're ahead of me
20:00:09 Renata: want to post that?
20:00:22 Niklas: I suppose I could
20:00:24 Renata: i'm not sure if it's releveant or not, but given the numbers it winds up with, it may be
20:00:35 Renata: it could be a real ability disguised as something other than what it is
20:01:58 Niklas: might as well put it out there for people to crunch
Time goes by, we talk mostly about other games, not much interesting happens.
20:50 - Sasaki starts what will be a bandwagon on Belisarius. Beskar follows 6 minutes later, then Thermal, ATPG and TinCow in rapid succession over the next 10 minutes. What isn't obvious from the thread is what goes on behind the scenes here. Beskar is pressuring more people to vote for Belisarius, both me and Renata got versions of this:
In parallel to this, here's the log with Renata:21:02:47 Beskar: Hey Niklas, vote for Belisarius. Sasaki apparently has a really good hunch on him.
21:03:10 Beskar: Plus, it is better than lynching a pro-town, or lynching some one who is currently a town.
21:03:17 Niklas: anything more substantial than what's in thread?
21:03:54 Beskar: Sasaki fasely claimed to him the other phase ago, saying he is a neutral, and wants to co-operate with the sith.
21:04:06 Beskar: as they can apparently work together, again the town.
21:04:51 Beskar: Belisarius didn't even post this in the thread, or anything.
21:06:51 Niklas: was belisarius active after this?
21:06:56 Niklas: did he respond to sasaki?
21:08:12 Beskar: he was active after this
21:08:25 Beskar: Sasaki says there wasn't a reply, but he has read the message
21:09:40 Niklas: I guess you don't care if I double check your words with Sasaki?
21:10:00 Beskar: Go ahead.
21:10:28 Beskar: "No response. Could be scared mafia, or just new. A townie should have posted it in the thread. " was the latest update from him
I send the conversation log to Sasaki by PM, and ask for a confirmation. I receive it some time later.21:07:11 Niklas: Beskar says: Hey Niklas, vote for Belisarius. Sasaki apparently has a really good hunch on him. Plus, it is better than lynching a pro-town, or lynching some one who is currently a town. Niklas says: anything more substantial than what's in thread?
21:07:16 Niklas: Beskar says: Sasaki fasely claimed to him the other phase ago, saying he is a neutral, and wants to co-operate with the sith. as they can apparently work together, again the town. Belisarius didn't even post this in the thread, or anything. Niklas says: was belisarius active after this? did he respond to sasaki?
21:08:03 Renata: he said the same to me, though i hadn't gotten around tothe questions yet
21:08:49 Niklas: Beskar says: he was active after this Sasaki says there wasn't a reply, but he has read the message
21:09:07 Niklas: I can't help but wonder if this is another case of "beskar is lying to strengthen his case"
21:09:14 Niklas: I'm going to double-check with Sasaki
21:09:28 Renata: good choice
Also this with Beskar:21:33:28 Niklas: from Sasaki: "Yeah, that's what happened. I don't know why belisarius didn't respond, but it's lynch worthy at least, and I thought he was suspicious anyway."
21:33:45 Renata: ok
21:34:04 Renata: i guess i may as well vote belisarius
21:34:39 Renata: though like i said to beskar, his defenses of himself from the other night remind me so much of way too many badly-lynched newbies that i cringe to do it
21:35:58 Niklas: right
21:42:19 Niklas: I cast a vote that you can follow if you like
I cast my vote in 21:37, Renata followed some minutes later. After that, nothing much happened. In 22:12 I went for a walk with the dogs (at least that's when I told Renata I was), cleared my head and in general felt more and more like I had been dancing to Beskar's tune. I returned to find Sigurd's tally, saw that the wagon on Belisarius was strong enough without me, and so I made my second post, switching my vote back to Beskar.21:33:39 Niklas: okay, Sasaki confirmed
21:33:50 Beskar: why would I have lied?
21:33:53 Beskar: I rarely lie.
21:34:25 Niklas: you just have a history of claiming things and make them sound grander and more definitive than they actually are ;)
21:34:32 Niklas: like "I know Mace Windu"
21:34:39 Niklas: or "it was a conversion attempt!"
21:34:50 Beskar: I thought it was.
21:35:09 Beskar: Nothing actually told me for definition.
21:35:14 Niklas: yes, I'm sure you did think it was, but you made it sound definitive at first only to waver later
21:35:39 Beskar: only because I realised it could have been something else :P
21:35:48 Niklas: what made you realize that?
21:36:09 Beskar: When some one else said it could have been something else.
21:36:30 Beskar: As I lost an ability, and the PM never explained why, and some one said "it could have been that"
I am not saying Belisarius was a bad lynch. If I felt he was, I would not have cast a vote on him in the first place. My second vote on Beskar was intended to put focus on how good both ATPG and Beskar had managed to turn yet another wagon around, not because I felt Belisarius was a bad lynch. And I guess this post is also partly an attempt to do that again.
Last edited by Niklas; 04-20-2010 at 21:38.
"another case"? What were the others?21:09:07 Niklas: I can't help but wonder if this is another case of "beskar is lying to strengthen his case"
Interesting you are starting this argument now, Niklas.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
How am I starting the argument now? It is something we have discussed off-thread for a number of days already. I am only bringing it in the open now, because I was asked to. Why don't you approve of that?
Never said I approved or disapproved, feel free to comment. I am just saying it is interesting.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
I can say one word, and now the whole town flips out because atheotes and Diamondeye want to think it's suspicious.
Simply put: The Jedi Masters (and possibly other Jedi) have been going to the Jedi Holocron every night or so to get their abilities, as has been mentioned by Beskar and/or Niklas, our resident confirmed Jedi Master.
I assumed that, since there were no Sith when we arrived, and the following night there were two Sith, while we did not gain any more people, that it was probably a Sith Holocron that was found, and that converted two of our Jedi knights. After all, they have been claimed by Star Wars lore (in this very thread) to be able to turn Jedi to the Dark Side, and as the Sith had dissappeared for a thousand years, it is virtually the only way for these Jedi (who believe the Sith are a legend) to turn.
That explain enough? It's a very logical line of thinking.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer: The Gameroom
All right, Psychonaut, here we go. This starts a few days back (April 15), with Psychonaut's only vote against Beskar.
Vote for Beskar. Followed up with reinforcement of GH's pressure here, with a comment about Beskar not demonstrating his claimed investigative abilities.
Then just three hours after that, we have this post:
To go from reinforcing suspicion against Beskar to dismissing the whole thing as a distraction in just three hours stands out. (And there were no intervening posts to signal this change of heart.) It stands out even more when you add Psychonaut's post the next day, where he nods along to TinCow's suggestion that a role name like Count Dooku can't be trusted. So he's reinforcing the bandwagon(s) on Beskar consistently, except, it seems, when he senses the chance to score some points by pooh-poohing it all.Yes and no. May simply be susceptible to conversion.
All in all, this Beskie business is just a distraction, it's allowing the Sith to sneak on by.
Then there's this spectacularly disingenuous post:
"I'll leave Beskie alone" followed by yet another reason to suspect him.Ok. I'll leave Beskie alone today. I wonder how much we should read into the write-ups. The yellow eye stuff would indicate Papatine, he has yellow eyes as a Sith.
Beskie could be the lightsaber Sith, as Dooku is, apart from Windu and Yoda, the best swordsman in the galaxy. So the "moves he'd never seen before", could indicate Dooku.
Continuing on, in 796 there's Psychonaut asserting that Beskar is not pro-town but neutral (repeated in 804). What the heck is that?
Post 882 (running out of time before dawn, so no more links, sorry)
Another turnaround, though not without a snuggle of two high-profile players. 891 is the closest to a justification for his behavior that Psychonaut offers:FoS: Everyone on the Beskar Bandwagon excluding TC and GH
Oh, hi, I'm the ticket inspector. Can I see your ticket please, or I'll have to to escort you off the bandwagon.
but it doesn't hold up. There's no reason for Beskar to need to prove his investigative ability unless there is some reason to suspect he is no innocent, and if there's reason for that, then anyone might legitimately vote for him. Psychonaut is trying to have it both ways: to encourage suspicion in numerous different ways while simultaneously chucking mud at almost anyone who votes for him. Nice tactic, but not one that looks like town. You know that stereotypical "the mafia are just laughing at us" thing that gets trotted out whenever two people are having a big argument, and then half the time the person who says that is mafia? Well this is the first time I can remember finding something that actually looks like a laughing mafia.You're missing the point. The first couple votes were to get Beskie to prove his investigative ability. Everyone after that point is seeing an opportunity to hide for a round and get to killing again.
As an aside, 991 is actually the post that first drew my attention. It's only commenting on the write-up:
but it feels out of place, contrived. I've been "concerned for the rest of us" since Night Zero, you know? Anyway, that's what got me looking to find all of the above, though it's next to nothing in itself.If you, Master Windu could not avoid death, I am very, very concerned for the rest of us.
Logical until you start adding up the numbers -- two additional Sith every night overwhelms the rest of us pretty soon by default. Plus, Methos was one of those called -- is he Sith despite being killed by one of them? Can you really have missed the posts that suggested or said flat-out (can't remember exactly which) that that had happened to him?
I'm dubious, Chaotix.
double post
Last edited by Renata; 04-20-2010 at 22:54.
hmm, nice. That "master windu" comment does look contrived.
Huh.. triple post.
Renata, what Chaotix is saying that 2 people found Sith holocron and turned into Siths while the others were going to the Jedi holocron to gain new powers as pro-town players.
One thing about next round...can we make it a bit less dramatic, and perhaps have a 6 vote "cap" after which people just fos? I think it would benefit us to cut down on the "reaction wagoning". "I don't like the beskar lynch, so I have to vote pizza" etc.
Round 5
Day
It was yet again night time and Count Dooku had some business to attend to before turning in. He finished his late supper consisting of canned expedition grub and some dried fruit. Not particularly satisfied he left his quarters and headed in a particular direction. He had just closed his door and started walking when he heard a sinister voice behind him. “Count Dooku!! I have been waiting for you.”
Count Dooku spun around just to see a cloaked being crouching like a cat just before it attacks its prey. The cloaked being released whatever it had charged and jumped forward with its hands stretched forth. Count Dooku reacted instinctively and raised his own hands and drew force to block whatever was released at him. A whoosh sound filled the whole corridor as if air was pushed forward by an immensely strong current. As Dooku tried with all his power to deflect the force current, he was beat to the ground. He managed however to alter the direction of the force current just a tad, but nothing could stop it. Instead of following the length of the hallway it crushed into Count Dooku’s quarters and cascaded through it and breeched a large hole in the ship side. Count Dooku was thrown into his no-wall quarters and the space vacuum was sucking it dry for debris and was pulling at Count Dooku himself. Dooku realizing what was about to happen, cried out: “This… can’t … be…happening!” Then he was gone, blown into space by the ship's pressure leaking out of the hole.
The cloaked being had gripped a pipe in the hallway and was struggling to hold on.
The ship’s anti hull breech system took effect and seals were plugging the now desolate quarters of former Count Dooku. Soon the air-.pressure normalized and the cloaked being could let go of the pipe. He turned and looked at the razed cabins and smiled. This was indeed a powerful force ability to be used with care.
Koffi Arana had been doing his Padawan exercises and hoped his extensive spare time training hours would give him a promotion to full Jedi Knight soon.
He neared the area where his quarters were when he saw someone standing blocking the hallway.
Fully knowing that this could be the killers of the last nights, Koffi stopped. He hoped he had not been spotted and dove into some shadows.
But he had been too slow. A sinister male voice could be heard: “Koffi…. Koffi Arana… come out to play…” Koffi’s face drained of blood and he started to shake uncontrollably. It was as if his legs couldn’t react. He tried to move but failed miserably. Then the creature was over him, dark cloak hiding face and features. A crimson blade sprang to life which bathed them both in an aerie reddish light. Koffi Arana never felt the glowing plasma blade shearing his head clean off from his body. The cloaked creature laughed uncontrollably. “Hahahhahhaa!!!...“
Another figure was out and about and when he reached his destination, he was met with a hallway and quarters blown up. It looked like a bomb had exploded and ripped a hole in the ship side. The person's cabin he intended to visit was just gone and the person was nowhere to be found.
Somewhere a member of the Jedi expedition force were meditating.
He had started his usual routine, but was suddenly overcome with peace and elevation as a presence surged into his very being. He heard a call from somewhere and followed the directions he had received. The directions led to a special storage area.
The morning came and they were two less members of the expedition. The expedition leader gave a similar talk to the other mornings including the promotion of a Jedi Knight.
Belth Allusis has been raised to Jedi Master. Congratulations!!
Voting ends at 23:00 Central European time 21st of April (roughly in 23 hours ).
I am slightly changing the time schedule. Next round should be a full 24 hour session.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by Sigurd; 05-06-2010 at 16:03. Reason: gender conflict
Status Emeritus
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Interesting. I think the beskar wagon from yesterday is a good place to look for mafia. It seems like they killed him tonight because they gave up on getting him lynched--which presumably means they were trying to get him lynched.
The ones who remained voting for Beskar at the end were pever, khaan, and Subo.
I'm too lazy to find out who voted for him and changed it, though...
For now, vote: pevergreen.
I think it's been a looooooooong time since he was mafia.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer: The Gameroom
Earlier today, Beskar informed me that he had received Chaotix's word that he would be protected tonight, and yet here we are now, with a dead Jedi Master.
So, what happened Chaotix? How come you didn't follow through with your word and protect Beskar?
vote: Chaotix
"Blacker than a moonless night. Hotter and more bitter than Hell itself… that is coffee."
I don't know. I am not the Jedi Master. I have a contact who is, and I was told that Beskar would be protected. Apparently he changed his mind, and I am awaiting a response.
Sasaki always thinks I am suspicious for some reason. I will change my vote soon, most likely.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer: The Gameroom
http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
This is also correct.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
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