StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

An unusually specific attempt at figuring out what was going on, not at all consistent with the rest of your posts. It reads to me like you're trying to apologize for Husar's death by saying it wasn't a targeted hit.

This is the part of your case that resonates with me.

It's a shame I think you're so scummy, TinCow. I'm torn on whether to believe you or not.

[Yaropolk]

unvote; vote: subotan based on husar and atpg fos.

Btw I'm taking in the caribbean sun for the rest of the week, not back yet, so please don't base a case on my level of activity.

[TinCow]

It's a shame I think you're so scummy, TinCow. I'm torn on whether to believe you or not.

If you think I'm "so scummy", why have you never pursued a case against me?

[Kagemusha]

If you think I'm "so scummy", why have you never pursued a case against me?

Maybe you are being monitored?

[Beskar]

This was me. And it took up my usual actions. So therefore, I could not have attacked anyone last night.

Lie. It doesn't affect your ability to do other actions, at least it didn't with me.

[autolycus]

I'm still getting scummy vibes from niklas and white_eyes, but a trustworthy source suspects pevergreen, so unvote:niklas, vote: pevergreen.

[Beskar]

Actually, I highly suggest you kill Niklas. I had some information a while ago, which TinCow knew about when he was making his case against Niklas. I had this verified by a couple of people recently, and it also explains the death of Mace Windu after he just revealed to both Renata and Niklas.

I am a reliable dead pro-town, I have no motive in lying, I urge you to reconsider and vote: Niklas.

[Renata]

vote: Niklas

I'm sorry, you deserve better than this. You played a ballsy game, and I hate that it's ended this way. And I'm not just saying that because you fooled me so badly, or because I'll most likely be lynched next. Kudos, Niklas.

[atheotes]

fair enough...i would like to see the actual case.
unvote, vote: Niklas

[Secura]

I can second this.

[Methos]

Actually, I highly suggest you kill Niklas. I had some information a while ago, which TinCow knew about when he was making his case against Niklas. I had this verified by a couple of people recently, and it also explains the death of Mace Windu after he just revealed to both Renata and Niklas.

I am a reliable dead pro-town, I have no motive in lying, I urge you to reconsider and vote: Niklas.

I agree with Beskar and I can confirm the information he has with email logs. Unfortunately, I hate to say what the info is as I'm not happy with how we obtained it. It was nothing that was against the rules, just a slip up Niklas made elsewhere.

The problem is, its out and it can't be put back in, so I agree that the Dark Lord Niklas needs to be put down.

[Methos]

fair enough...i would like to see the actual case.
unvote, vote: Niklas

I'm not sure we can, unfortunately. Renata asked me to check on something and after finding it, I agree with her and Beskar.

[Renata]

Unfortunately the case can't wholly be revealed without compromising another game.

Some info which may be relevant:

Niklas claimed the role of Den Siva, who was promoted to padawan several days back. He claimed to have gained the force breath hold ability at that point, and therefore to be able to evade a single lynch. This is likely true, though it may not be one-shot in his case. We should lynch him anyway, but possibly we'll have to do it again tomorrow.

[Methos]

I'm not for sure if this is public knowledge or not, as I've withheld it for fear it would benefit the Sith more then the town, but since Niklas is the Dark Lord.....

Recall that I was the Jedi Master Mace Windu. The night I was targeted for death I received a PM by our host Sigurd stating that I was being attacked and he requested how I wished to defend myself. I apparently chose wrong, but certain things are more clear now.

Anyway, for the Masters out there, pay close attention to the attacks and defenses, especially of fellow Masters.

[atheotes]

Unfortunately the case can't wholly be revealed without compromising another game.

Some info which may be relevant:

Niklas claimed the role of Den Siva, who was promoted to padawan several days back. He claimed to have gained the force breath hold ability at that point, and therefore to be able to evade a single lynch. This is likely true, though it may not be one-shot in his case. We should lynch him anyway, but possibly we'll have to do it again tomorrow.

Isnt that the same ability Beskar had? I guess Qui-gon can pay Niklas a visit and ensure it is a one-shot.

So there is a real Den Siva? or was it his cover role? I am just trying to gauge to usefulness of Psychonaut's information (investigation?)

[Secura]

You're lucky you've lived this far really, Renata, when you think about it.

Remember that earlier on you and I were both pointed to as suspects for the leak that led to Methos, Csargo and others dying? Well, with me dead, I'd assume you were coming soon after as Niklas' final loose end.

It's a shame we didn't pick him up sooner and that it came to this, really; Beskar and I had him down as a suspect, but Beskar was killed the night of his investigation and we didn't follow up the line of enquiry. >.<

[Renata]

Den Siva was revealed in the write-up, so it must be real (or a real cover, most likely), and also has relevance to Psychonaut's results.

Edit: He fooled me, Secura. This won't help my case, but as there's no harm in revealing it now -- despite that issue (and despite that Niklas had never suggested or supported me bringing it up), and despite a few arguably scummy in-thread posts, out of the thread Niklas did a really good con job on me. There were certain behaviors I'd been on the watch for based on the last game we played together (the latest NOTW at CFC, which was very recent), and he avoided them all.

I'll argue my case in every direction I can when the time comes, but I won't blame the town if I wind up lynched despite that.

(Which is to say, what incentive did Niklas have to kill me? I was his best ally.)

[Beskar]

What is interesting, Sasaki commented as if he knew the Sith had cover-roles like that (as in, could be promoted, etc). Just a quick question, was it just a big guess on your part, Sasaki, or did you actually know?

[Secura]

Which is to say, what incentive did Niklas have to kill me? I was his best ally.

You've got to die sooner or later...

[Renata]

Yeah -- later.

[Kagemusha]

Well lets lynch Niklas first.I knew i smelled something funny about the two of you. Now its ofcourse completely possible that there is no link between Renata and Niklas, but thats thought for another day.

[TinCow]

*sigh* Alright then, there's no point in dancing around this any longer. I thought I was the only person who saw what happened so I attempted to keep a lid on it, but apparently that was not the case. Let's just get this over with, since the result now seems inevitable.

In summary, in a QT thread for another game, someone made a post under the name "Dark Lord." It was quickly deleted, but I was online at the time and saw it while it was still up. As far as I could tell, it was Niklas who made the post. I could not forget what I had seen, but I also did not want to lynch someone via metagaming, so I attempted to construct a case against Niklas based on his in-thread behavior. As part of that, I asked Beskar to investigate Niklas to further help build a real case against him instead of a metagaming case. Unfortunately, Beskar was killed before he got the results. About the same time, Niklas contacted me and I was honest with him about why I was trying to get him lynched. After some discussion with him and a talk with the person who was the admin of that QT forum (the person is not a player in this game), I just dropped the issue, tried to forget about it, and moved on. That was a week ago today.

Unfortunately, it seems that I was not the only person who saw what happened. The result is that this metagaming evidence has re-surfaced despite my attempts to forget it. I do not want to lynch someone on this kind of basis, but the fact remains that it was Niklas' fault, not ours, and those of us that saw it cannot be blamed for reading something he posted by mistake. It is clear to me now that this information cannot be contained any longer, so we might as well get this over with and lynch Niklas before further time is wasted because of this situation.

Unvote; Vote: Niklas

Sorry man, I swear I haven't spoken a word about this since our conversation last week. Unfortunately, this one appears to have been beyond my control.

[Niklas]

I did not make the posts referred to. TC thought I did, I convinced him I didn't. But it doesn't matter what I say or do, no one will believe me anyway. I had fun in this game, and someone has ruined it for me with a meta-game issue. Sorry for not taking it well.

unvote; vote: Niklas

[Secura]

Niklas... if it's not you, who was it?

[Methos]

After reading Tincow's post I'm a bit irked myself. I did not recall it, but had it brought to my attention by Renata. She informed me that....

beskar is saying that tincow is saying that niklas posted there using the name "dark lord"

[Niklas]

Niklas... if it's not you, who was it?

I must be honest with you, there is another factor that is impacting my vote. I have not said it publicly because it is metagaming and I loathe that. It is important to me to play fair at all times. That said, I was browsing the Inishmore Aussie QT when I saw a post by "Dark Lord" which quickly got edited out. It seemed to me that someone had accidentally logged into that QT with the wrong account name and after some consideration, I concluded that person was you. Like I said, I hate metagaming, but I cannot unsee what I have seen and it's impossible for it not to impact my perceptions of the Jedi game. I have thus put in a lot of effort to find a non-metagaming reason to pressure you to see if I could build a case against you on a legit basis rather than on the QT login basis. Be assured, even if you are Sith and that was a mistake by you in the QT thread, I will never mention it publicly because it's straight up unfair. However, if you want to have any hope of convincing me you're not Sith, you're going to need to persuade me that either wasn't you, or that it was you but it had nothing to do with the Jedi game.

WT*, that wasn't me, I swear it. And I truly wish you hadn't told me, I utterly hate this sort of thing. Now there are two of us spoilered, I cannot unhear what you told me any more than you can unsee what you saw. But I am not the droid you seek, I didn't post that.

I assume you're referring to "Messages 29-27 deleted by topic administrator between 04-19-2010 03:13 PM and 04-19-2010 03:07 PM".

I do not have any account on QT, and as such I don't have the power to delete even my own posts, I tried. I can edit them, or delete their content, but not delete the posts themselves. "Topic administrator" suggests YLC or pevergreen deleted, whoever started that QT. I can only speculate, but I simply won't, you know as well as I do what the implications are. Just like you I loathe that kind of meta-gaming, and I'm enjoying this game far too much at this point, or at least was. It will affect me, no doubt, I can't unhear it, but I'm hoping I can go back to enjoying the game regardless (and you too).

Now I'll take a break, vent some steam, and then go back to trying to derail a stupid bandwagon. At least now I understand why you were so insisting even after I thought I had given you the explanation you wanted.

YLC is not in the Jedi game. I will talk to him about it. If he was the person who made that post, I will do my best to save you.

YLC would not answer the question, but the reasons he gave for not answering it and the manner in which he explained his reasons were such as to convince me that it's more likely I'm barking up the wrong tree here. I will unvote you and do my best to forget this entire thing. I'd like to request that you not post what happened publicly regardless of what happens during the rest of the game.

Me and TinCow both did all we could to forget about this. Apparently that wasn't enough for some people.

[autolycus]

Well, it seems my suspicions were right after all, at least about niklas. Unvote, vote: niklas.

[Secura]

Meh, edited this post, not fueling the fire.

[TinCow]

If it isn't Niklas, it can only be pevergreen or TinCow. Renata wasn't privy to the topic at that point, I'm dead, YLC isn't a part of this game. Don't think it's TinCow based on his reactions to the situation.

I'm leaning strongly towards the former based upon the other evidence that Beskar and I had of our leak (after we believed Pizza to be innocent), but everyone is entitled to their own approach on the matter, really. :3

Worth noting that my closer look at pevergreen recently was because his recent scumtastic posts set off my scumdar. Combined with my knowledge that he had access to that QT as well, I decided to do a deeper read on him. While the QT post as I recall it seemed to fit Niklas far better than pevergreen, a totally impartial analysis must still consider pevergreen as another option.

[Kagemusha]

My honest opinion is that any discussions concerning quick topics should stay in quicktopics. What some know or do not know concerning meta gaming aspects should stay outside this game thread.