The United Kingdom Elections 2010

[Strike For The South]

English were meant to get regional assemblies, which were retracted last second, except for London's. It is a process which hasn't been finished yet.

Also, an English Parliament would be a very bad idea. There is a North/South English divide for example, which means the North would suffer greatly, because the South has London.

So you have your on version of carpetbagging no good yankees?

Fascinating at some point I must make it over there

As to not stray to far off topic I did watch the televiesed debate and found it to be midly interesting esp considering your candites don't seem to be jadded by the cameras like the American ones do.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Conservative Party are basically careerist politicians who ride on the agenda of ukip/bnp whilst effectively serving themselves and their mates in big business.

Absurd statements like this make me glad you aren't voting.

For starters, the BNP is a populist-socialist party.

What a fascinating little country.

On a sidenote how come the Scots get a parliment and the English don't?

"Blair" is a Scottish name.

English were meant to get regional assemblies, which were retracted last second, except for London's. It is a process which hasn't been finished yet.

Also, an English Parliament would be a very bad idea. There is a North/South English divide for example, which means the North would suffer greatly, because the South has London. This is an issue as their policies would increase wealth/prosperity the South, in exchange for greatly reducing the North.

I have no problems with Regional, as it means those Londoners can keep their policies there and out of here.

Not to mention, England is (population wise) about 10 times the size of Scotland, and getting on for 20 times the size of Wales.

[InsaneApache]

English were meant to get regional assemblies.

Meant? Meant by whom? Did anyone bother to ask the English what was in store for them?

Why do you think the Geordies told them to bugger off with their 'regional assembles' ? Has it occurred to some folks that we might rather like the idea of being English. Rather than a North-Easterner or a Yorks and Humbersiders....etc. etc.

[Beskar]

Meant? Meant by whom? Did anyone bother to ask the English what was in store for them?

Why do you think the Geordies told them to bugger off with their 'regional assembles' ? Has it occurred to some folks that we might rather like the idea of being English. Rather than a North-Easterner or a Yorks and Humbersiders....etc. etc.

London said yes, and the North East were dumb and said no. Because of that no, they didn't bother asking anyone else, so we lost them all, except London keeps theirs, obviously. >.<

Also, we have them anyway, the point is, they are staffed by unelected Quango's and there is a great multitude of many reasons why having stronger elected regional assemblies is a very good idea.


P.S. It doesn't affect people ascribing to 'English', though being honest, we are all 'British' anyway and we should act like it.

[Beskar]

Also, Tories want to pray the gay away.

Some people need to exit the dark ages.

[Furunculus]

The Conservative Party are basically careerist politicians who ride on the agenda of ukip/bnp whilst effectively serving themselves and their mates in big business.

is this some kind of bizarre method for disguising the absolute truth in what i say, i.e. that if pr is introduced now then large swathes of the country that have previously been firm labour territory will now have a large chance of returning a bnp mp.

your cheap shot exposes the fact that you have zero understanding of why the immigration debate is poisonous, it is because working class people have been lied to for a generation about the scale and impact of immigration, and they feel their concerns have been treated with contempt.

seriously, THE best way to instantly make immigration a less poisonous topic is for a party to say; "yes guys, we see that this is a problem, and we will curb it to the point where it is no longer a problem. now who is saying that.............. oh yes, it is the nasty party!

[Furunculus]

London said yes, and the North East were dumb and said no. Because of that no, they didn't bother asking anyone else, so we lost them all, except London keeps theirs, obviously. >.<

Also, we have them anyway, the point is, they are staffed by unelected Quango's and there is a great multitude of many reasons why having stronger elected regional assemblies is a very good idea.


P.S. It doesn't affect people ascribing to 'English', though being honest, we are all 'British' anyway and we should act like it.

i would rather follow hannans plan, and ditch the quangoes and devolve their 'competences' downward to local level.

[CountArach]

This is rather an amusing questionnaire for those who might be undecided. It accurately reports my predilection towards being a barely convinced Tory (although in the extra questions, my disagreement with the Iraq war immediately turns me over to being a LibDem).

Green Party: 77%
Liberal Democrats: 73%
Labour Party: 61%
UK Independence Party: 41%
British National Party: 39%
Conservative Party: 33%

Though the Greens are closest to my political views in reality I would be voting Lib Dem were I a pom, so yeah that's close enough.

[Furunculus]

anyone else going to join the election sweep-stakes:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JAG (27/02/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2440038

Furunculus (29/04/10) - Narrow Conservative win:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2459341

Furunculus (29/03/10) - Narrow Conservative win:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2459341

Idaho (16/04/10) - Narrow Labour win:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2471029

Rory (16/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2471056

CountArch (30/04/10) - Conservative led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480544

CountArch (23/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476911

Banquo's Ghost (29/04/10) - Conservative led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480078

Banquo's Ghost (23/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476913

Louis (29/04/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480070

Louis (23/04/10) - Labour led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476925

Tbilicus (23/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476926

Insane Apache (02/05/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2481378

Insane Apache (23/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476935

Beskar (23/04/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2477082

Alh_P (29/04/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480111

Seamus Fermanagh (30/04/10) - Conservative led hung parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480262

Subotan (30/04/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480536

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and have i missed anyone out?

p.s. you can can change your vote, but the original will also be retained..........

[Furunculus]

I don't see where the problem is. Foriegn students pay lots of money into university (which doesn't get taken from tax payers) and they only fill up the places which are not taken up by Homegrown students. They are only here for a few years and then they leave, or they are simply here for a year.

This includes a great many students mostly from American, Canada and Europe.

i feel you deliberately miss the point, if the EU accounts for only 40% of long term immigrants than cameron's plan to cap non-eu residents will be far more effective than Clegg insiinuated when he used the 80% figure.

[Furunculus]

Maybe we should also have a list of voting intentions, might be interesting to tally against the predictions?

----------------------------------
Furunculus = Con
Idaho = None
Beskar Lib-Dem

----------------------------------

[InsaneApache]

Not quite decided yet. Probably go Lib-Dem on a tactical vote.

[Furunculus]

first poll i have heard of predicting a tory majority....................... of two seats:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/to...rall-majority/

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Apparently, I'm an independent sort of thug with a streak of conservatism....

UKIP = 64
BNP = 58
Tory = 54
LD = 27
Lab = 22
Grn = 13

Other than the jack-booted thug wannabe quality the BNP occasionally evinces, that's probably a pretty good read on me. I suspect that in practice I'd be UKIP/Tory.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Apparently, I'm an independent sort of thug with a streak of conservatism....

UKIP = 64
BNP = 58
Tory = 54
LD = 27
Lab = 22
Grn = 13

Other than the jack-booted thug wannabe quality the BNP occasionally evinces, that's probably a pretty good read on me. I suspect that in practice I'd be UKIP/Tory.

Just goes to show, the average American is about 25% right of the average Brit, I suppose.

[drone]

Conservative Party: 59%
UK Independence Party: 59%
Liberal Democrats: 37%
Labour Party: 29%
Green Party: 10%

Just goes to show, the average American is about 25% right of the average Brit, I suppose.

Our far left wingers are your LibDems, our right wingers are your BNP.

[Subotan]

I can't

[Idaho]

your cheap shot exposes the fact that you have zero understanding of why the immigration debate is poisonous, it is because working class people have been lied to for a generation about the scale and impact of immigration, and they feel their concerns have been treated with contempt.

The Tory/UKIP lot claim to be against immigration - but it's all balls. The UKIP's money backer runs a big shop near here. He employs Polish staff because they work cheaper

They love immigration - they just want the immigrants to quietly disappear after they have cleaned the toilets and swept the streets.

[tibilicus]

Put me down for a prediction of a Conservative minority government. Polls of the marginal seats which are Lab/Con show roughly a 7% swing to the Conservatives. Whilst the polling of the marginals suggests the Conservatives will win few, if any Lib/Con marginals, I still feel the Tories are in a strong position. I say this because I probably imagine that in three way marginals, an increase in lib dem support and a drop in Labour support essentially collapses the progressive vote between the lib dems and Labour.

[Furunculus]

The Tory/UKIP lot claim to be against immigration - but it's all balls. The UKIP's money backer runs a big shop near here. He employs Polish staff because they work cheaper

They love immigration - they just want the immigrants to quietly disappear after they have cleaned the toilets and swept the streets.

WTF! what planet do you live on?

I am a Tory/UKIP type person, and I have a Polish girlfriend, and there is zero incompatibility between the two.

It might be convenient for you to conflate the Tory's and UKIP with the BNP, as it makes them easier to be branded as guilty by association, but it is fundamentally dishonest.

The UKIP position is that they don't want to be european.
The BNP position is that they don't want have any europeans (or anyone else).

Those are two fundamentally different messages, why do you not get this?

The Tory position on immigration isn't exactly ideological, it is merely a pragmatic recognition that the less well off consider it to be a problem, and it is their job to represent the view of the electorate. If you don't get that then you will never understand why labours votes among the working class are about to drop off a cliff at this election.

I as a right-wing individual don't personally give a damn about immigration, but I see social tension rising in other parts of the country and realise something should be done about that, unlike the labour position that immigration was an ideological tool to transform via social engineering the very fabric of the country.

[Furunculus]

anyone else going to join the election sweep-stakes:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JAG (27/02/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2440038

Furunculus (29/04/10) - Narrow Conservative win:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2459341

Furunculus (29/03/10) - Narrow Conservative win:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2459341

Idaho (16/04/10) - Narrow Labour win:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2471029

Rory (16/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2471056

CountArch (30/04/10) - Conservative led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480544

CountArch (23/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476911

Banquo's Ghost (29/04/10) - Conservative led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480078

Banquo's Ghost (23/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476913

Louis (29/04/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480070

Louis (23/04/10) - Labour led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476925

Tbilicus (05/04/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2482362

Tbilicus (23/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476926

Insane Apache (02/05/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2481378

Insane Apache (23/04/10) - Labour led hung-parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2476935

Beskar (23/04/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2477082

Alh_P (29/04/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480111

Seamus Fermanagh (30/04/10) - Conservative led hung parliament:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480262

Subotan (30/04/10) - Conservative led minority government:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2480536

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and have i missed anyone out?

p.s. you can can change your vote, but the original will also be retained..........

[Furunculus]

I am going to have a third vote on election day itself, before 5:30pm, to record my last moment gut-feeling.

Feel free to do the same.

[Idaho]

WTF! what planet do you live on?

I am a Tory/UKIP type person, and I have a Polish girlfriend, and there is zero incompatibility between the two.

It might be convenient for you to conflate the Tory's and UKIP with the BNP, as it makes them easier to be branded as guilty by association, but it is fundamentally dishonest.

The UKIP position is that they don't want to be european.
The BNP position is that they don't want have any europeans (or anyone else).

They may well be different messages. But they come from the same place. BNP is the working class expression of it, and UKIP is the middle class expression of it.

The Tory position on immigration isn't exactly ideological, it is merely a pragmatic recognition that the less well off consider it to be a problem, and it is their job to represent the view of the electorate. If you don't get that then you will never understand why labours votes among the working class are about to drop off a cliff at this election.

I as a right-wing individual don't personally give a damn about immigration, but I see social tension rising in other parts of the country and realise something should be done about that, unlike the labour position that immigration was an ideological tool to transform via social engineering the very fabric of the country.

I think both Labour and Conservative were trying to be pragmatic on immigration. Both of them followed the same de facto basic trend. The difference is that on paper the had to pander to different power bases.

[Beskar]

Lib-dem/Tory coalition won't work - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tory-coalition
Liberal led, Labour coalition? - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...inister-hutton


I have to admit, I could easily settle for Nick Clegg becoming the next Prime Minister in a Lib-Labour coalition. It would be a very good move to make. Especially as it would give the Labour-left some actual power instead of the Labour-Right (New Labour Blairites)

[Furunculus]

They may well be different messages. But they come from the same place. BNP is the working class expression of it, and UKIP is the middle class expression of it.

absolute twaddle, explain how a desire to be the arbiter of your own identity is in any way similar to a dislike of having foriegners live in your area/country?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Tory/UKIP lot claim to be against immigration - but it's all balls. The UKIP's money backer runs a big shop near here. He employs Polish staff because they work cheaper

They love immigration - they just want the immigrants to quietly disappear after they have cleaned the toilets and swept the streets.

dossn't make them bigots, which the BNP are.

Also, Tories want to pray the gay away.

Some people need to exit the dark ages.

Some things to consider:

1. New Frontiers is a non-conformist Evangelical (non-American) Church; Tories are usually Established Church, Labour are Catholic, and the Lib-Dems are non conformists (and now Atheists).

2. Only the Guardian has said something nasty about her; even the homosexuals interviewed say nice things about her.

3. It's an opinion that was barely out of fashion when she was a child, so it's not "dark ages".

4. A funny opinion about homosexuality doesn't disqualify you from wider social work, nor does it make you wrong about everything.

absolute twaddle, explain how a desire to be the arbiter of your own identity is in any way similar to a dislike of having foriegners live in your area/country?

Quite.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Tory position on immigration isn't exactly ideological, it is merely a pragmatic recognition that the less well off consider it to be a problem, and it is their job to represent the view of the electorate.

Oh, please!

'We ourselves are elightened, but hey, the unwashed masses will have none of it, so what can we do, eh?'

What hypocrisy, what lack of moral backbone, what unwillingness to accept responsibility for one's own thoughts and actions.
It reduces the white working class to the bigots of Brown, far inferior to the superior elite. The sole difference that Brown does not whereas the Tories will listen to the bigots, will be their humble servants.

It maintains the same elitist snobbery of the working class of Brown, but adds hypocricisy and cowardice to it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oh, please!

'We ourselves are elightened, but hey, the unwashed masses will have none of it, so what can we do, eh?'

What hypocrisy, what lack of moral backbone, what unwillingness to accept responsibility for one's own thoughts and actions.
It reduces the white working class to the bigots of Brown, far inferior to the superior elite. The sole difference that Brown does not whereas the Tories will listen to the bigots, will be their humble servants.

It maintains the same elitist snobbery of the working class of Brown, but adds hypocricisy and cowardice to it.

I think, actually, that the Torries do consider it a problem. Immagration is happening too quickly right now, it isn't managable. thinking that doesn't make you a bigot.

[InsaneApache]

It does if your called Gillian and live in Rochdale.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I think, actually, that the Torries do consider it a problem. Immagration is happening too quickly right now, it isn't managable. thinking that doesn't make you a bigot.

I too think the Tories think so too. I also personally think immigration has happened too quickly and that it is not bigotry to think so.

What I resent, is the claim the Tories do not think so but that the lower classes leave them no choice. This is simply a repeat of Brown's snubbery, with the added element of hypocricy. It allows for thinking what the uneducated bigots think, while keeping up the appearance that one himself if of course well above such bigotry, that it is only one's strict adherence to democratic principles that one should act on this inferior bigotry of the unwashed masses.