2 historical questions about eastern cavalry

**WinsingtonIII** · 05-04-2010, 16:29

How could they turn around to shoot the bow in the famous "Parthian Shot" (which as we know was used by pretty much all Eurasian nomads, not just Parthians) when they had a 3 m lance slung across their back? Even if slung diagonally, wouldn't the lance knock into the flank of the horse before they could turn around that far; thus preventing them from turning around any more?

**mountaingoat** · 05-05-2010, 01:25

Originally Posted by WinsingtonIII

How could they turn around to shoot the bow in the famous "Parthian Shot" (which as we know was used by pretty much all Eurasian nomads, not just Parthians) when they had a 3 m lance slung across their back? Even if slung diagonally, wouldn't the lance knock into the flank of the horse before they could turn around that far; thus preventing them from turning around any more?

i agree ... maybe there was some kind of contraption they could attach the mount to on one side of the saddle ? if people could twist around and fire an arrow backwards while a horse was galloping forwards (or in a circle).. i do not see how they could not bend down and grab a lance from some holding on the saddle. *shrug*

**Cute Wolf** · 05-05-2010, 05:28

Originally Posted by WinsingtonIII

How could they turn around to shoot the bow in the famous "Parthian Shot" (which as we know was used by pretty much all Eurasian nomads, not just Parthians) when they had a 3 m lance slung across their back? Even if slung diagonally, wouldn't the lance knock into the flank of the horse before they could turn around that far; thus preventing them from turning around any more?

unfortunely, Javanese heavy cataphracts (which using bows and lance), are mentioned for their clumsiness (seriously), while lighter horse archers typically using bow and some kind of swords, and wearing little or no armour... just look the unit lists in my forge thread...

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 05-05-2010, 16:51

I would think the lance would be held to the side of the horse, presumably slung there so that when a charge was required, the cavalryman could somehow slide it out, or even just cut the straps. I would think it unlikely that a kontos would be used multiple times in one battle. They presumably broke soon after, if not upon the initial charge and would be rather unwieldy in melee combat against other horsemen.

**Lvcretivs** · 05-05-2010, 17:22

There would be also be the possibilty of an saddle-mounted 'quiver', in which the lance shaft was securely held until the rider required it for a charge - but this would require a much shorter lance (lonche,...) and I've seen no hellenistic depictions whatsoever of such an device - expert's opinion, anyone?

Perhaps we should think - just like Sir Robin suggested - of the Kontos as a 'one-way' weapon used only in the final, breaking charge - after all, the enemy was already expected to be demoralized and disorganized by the constant arrow hail inflicted by the lighter horse archers...

EDIT: Oops, just overread mountaingoat's post...

**Cute Wolf** · 05-05-2010, 17:33

maybe it was right if a lance was mostly one way weapons in EB time period, but what about such delicate made lance, and strongly built one, that was designed to survive many impacts and used in close combats (some martial (silat) aspects prove that lance wasn't intended to be used as one way weapon, even when on top of a horse)

**Lvcretivs** · 05-05-2010, 17:42

Maybe different (internal) construction and available raw materials to chose from - eg. bamboo and resilient tropical woods employed in composite fashion?
Also the surely different cavalry tactics utilized and the enemies encountered would have to be considered - I'm no expert on the subject, please correct me ;)

**WinsingtonIII** · 05-05-2010, 18:35

But if the lance was slung on the saddle, wouldn't it drag on the ground? With something 3 m long, you're going to need at least 2 points fairly far apart to prevent it from flopping around. I guess if you have 4-5 points along the saddle to attach it it's not going to tip around too much, but then it's going to take quite long to actually get your lance out...