Quality of games

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Yes, it does. They started the whole "achievement rush" and many ppl are playing it just to get those achievements.

Not only does that have nothing to do with the quality of the game, but I doubt you can even prove that. The people I play TF2 with certainly emjoy earning achievements when it happens but are not playing just to get them. And even if they were, that is completely unrelated to the quality of the game.

Maybe this should be titled "I don't like achievements" and TF2 might have some relevence in the discussion, but TF2 was high quality when it was released and has enjoyed some of the best support from its developers that a game could ever hope to have.

[A Nerd]

Maybe this should be titled "I don't like achievements"

I wouldn't say it's all that, it's just that many games seemed rushed and lack the content of depth and interactibility of earlier games. Rushed out with nothing but flash and eye candy. I certainly would not want to knock the MP community with all it's close-knitted players and sense of enjoyable competativness. Some think that MP is what is keeping PC gaming alive. It would be a shame however, if PC gaming went all MP and there was no longer any effort and commitment put toward quality, entertaining SP experiences. I just thing console SP is quite inferior to what I have enjoyed in the past with PC SP titles.

[gaelic cowboy]

Maybe this should be titled "I don't like achievements" and TF2 might have some relevence in the discussion, but TF2 was high quality when it was released and has enjoyed some of the best support from its developers that a game could ever hope to have.

Achievements have been with games a long time Space Invaders anyone??? the only difference is nowadays with windows live and xboxlive it's become an actual requirement by games companies like microsof etc.

Gamers really should ask does getting 200 kills with each weapon in mass effect really add to the game or am I being codded into hanging on to the game to prevent it turning up in a bargain bin to shore up price.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Gamers really should ask does getting 200 kills with each weapon in mass effect really add to the game or am I being codded into hanging on to the game to prevent it turning up in a bargain bin to shore up price.

I didn't even know the first ME even had achievements until after my friend played it and asked how many I had gotten on my playthrough. So I think you guys are bringing up all the wrong examples to make your arguments.

All that said, I might agree that (with a few exceptions) games from major publishers/development houses are declining in quality (which I think is a distinctly separate issue from a supposed obsession with achievements in games). However, we're seeing I think a proportional increase in the amount and quality of games created by smaller or independent developers and those focusing on a specific niche market. I don't really care if the next seven installments of Call of Duty are all terrible or if the rest of the Total War games from here on out are dedicated solely to collecting achievements. I have lots of options for gaming outside of them, with publishers like Paradox and Stardock supporting niche games, and indies like the people in the UK trying to make a proper X-COM sequel. And even then there are major publishers/development houses like BioWare and Valve I can look to for high-quality games and top-notch support.

I think miotas hit the nail on the head - the good old days only seem that way because we don't remember the failures, except maybe for Daikatana.

[edyzmedieval]

Not only does that have nothing to do with the quality of the game, but I doubt you can even prove that. The people I play TF2 with certainly emjoy earning achievements when it happens but are not playing just to get them. And even if they were, that is completely unrelated to the quality of the game.

Maybe this should be titled "I don't like achievements" and TF2 might have some relevence in the discussion, but TF2 was high quality when it was released and has enjoyed some of the best support from its developers that a game could ever hope to have.

Yes it does affect the quality of the game - the game is focused on those achievements rather than enjoying it for pure fun. I cannot doubt the fact that TF2 is probably the most supported game in history, the amount of bug fixes and content it received is just incredible, but still, despite that, the gimmicks and other goodies are meant to keep you playing and not throw it away. Look at Counter Strike, a simple team game... Nobody needed achievements, and it's still one of the most played games even after what, 6-7 years?

Ok, they ruined it now with the Counter Strike Beta, but that's a different story.

What I'm talking about is the immersion factor, the "wow" factor, the replayability, the quality of the game, the substance it has... I don't think you can really compare games like Modern Warfare 2 with some old shooters, or perhaps the last Age of Empires with Age of Empires 2 which was absolutely brilliant and which I still play this day.

My opinion, but still, I see that the "super duper coolness" of the old games that had massive amounts of content and serious substance is now gone. MW2 is the best example for this.

[Raz]

Take it the extreme: play a roguelike.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

the game is focused on those achievements rather than enjoying it for pure fun

That's a ridiculous position to take - think of all the content that's released unrelated to achievements. Which is most of it. How much gameplay revolves around getting achievements? For most players, roughly zero. I think you need to lighten up and not let other people enjoying achievements ruin your enjoyment of gameplay unrelated to achievements.

[edyzmedieval]

That's a ridiculous position to take - think of all the content that's released unrelated to achievements. Which is most of it. How much gameplay revolves around getting achievements? For most players, roughly zero. I think you need to lighten up and not let other people enjoying achievements ruin your enjoyment of gameplay unrelated to achievements.

Oh come on, how is that ridiculous? Ok, fine, leave the achievements out - what is your idea of a quality game?
I'm just pointing out the fact that having achievements and unlockables has taken out the whole "substance" of the game, the aim is not to have fun, but to show off how good you are. And how pretty those badges look on you!