Originally Posted by
pevergreen
People need to stop looking at one persons case and then deciding that what they say is proof...
Translation: "And apparently, ATPG is always right..."
You know, I have to admit there probably is some latent dissatisfaction with the situation where if I make a big case on someone, right or wrong, they generally do die. I am sure that's annoying to people, especially when I am wrong. Or to those who made the exact same case 5 rounds prior, but perhaps not quite as perspicuously. I'm sure they hate being ignored.
How many times have I accused someone where someone like YLC or Renata or Secura was there first, but their cases were ignored? Perhaps people do give undue weight behind what I say. And I am sure that frustration manifests itself when I accuse you. But, there's another thing: Most of the mafia I ever accuse react the same way: playing off of that particular frustration or doubt as a defense. "Come on guys, you're really not going to just sit back and listen to
ATPG, are you?".
What do you expect their reaction to be? All of a sudden people will realize that they've got to grab their pitchforks and torches and go home? Join hands and say to each other, "he's right.... let's never listen to ATPG again...." It doesn't really work though, and that is why I am amused when it keeps being used as a defense.
You know what really worked as a defense? Look back to how
atheotes reacted when I started accusing him in
Star Wars: RotS. There was almost no reaction, no righteous indignation, and he waited for my own bad, assumption-based case to fall apart. He pointed out one flaw in my reasoning after like an hour of accusing him, which if he were mafia he would have used against me right away. When you're mafia the idea is to make your accuser look incompetent or wrong as best you can... not leave a lifeline like that on the table. He could have just whipped it out in reaction, but there was no real pressure for him to do so because I was wrong about him. But there is usually very little patience and calmness when I'm right about someone. The immediacy of the situation prompts mafia to "empty their clips" at me to stop the attack. It requires almost a totally inverted psychological state to patiently deconstruct. Some people have it in them to do so, but even then they rarely leave a good opening unused. Discrediting the accuser is very important in a game where emotion and instinct plays as big a part as logic does, and instinctively mafia tend to go right for that move.
It's why I dropped my case against atheotes like a sack of potatoes. Not only was I wrong about many different facts, but atheotes' reaction was cool as ice, and my accusation did not trigger any sort of immediate discrediting attempt on his part. That's a major difference between the usual townie reaction and the usual scum reaction. And never-serious pevergreen's reaction was to go straight for the instinctive, reflexive discrediting... or playing on the sympathies of others I may have accused and been wrong about. It gets to be so reflexive that I cannot help but admire those players who can resist the urge. It actually makes my job much more difficult when they do. Kagemusha is one of those players who would be unlikely to get flustered by me, and yet even in this game he flinched a bit. I am actually surprised that you reacted this way... you're nothing if not unique. It's very odd to see you acting like every other ordinary scumbag...
Here is the peverspecial: The 1am defence!
y so srs?
You're right, over the recent time with the gradual player shift, I've become a much lower priority target. I remember when I was a high profile target...though I'm not sure why I was.
I can only imagine what you'd be like as townie if you were still in old pevergreen mode and you were still trying. I would like to see that again. You obviously have skills as mafia, or else you wouldn't be able to pull of such a performance like in this game without acting slightly off from your usual. And if you have skills as mafia then you understand mafia enough to be a competent townie.
If I am right about you, which admittedly is an assumption (not much of a leap though... process of elimination is kind of kicking your butt here... should have killed certain people by now...) then my main critique would be that you played the unserious card too much. In these final rounds even you usually make an attempt to vote for a real suspect. Voting for splitpersonality last round was just bad karma.
Spent a lot of time building this up.
I gave up one trying to build actual cases on people when everyone ignored my posts constantly for about 6 months. Its just a habit now, I know what I post is either skimmed over or not actually judged, so I can pretty much sprout anything I feel like. Same in the backroom.
Yep... that's your thing, kind of like Csargo being a constant lurker and not responding even when his life is on the line. People have different styles and most of it has a place in the gameroom. Obviously your style is to great advantage when you're mafia. You might suffer a little backlash in the early game if you are guilty here though, as is the usual custom.
I don't see why Kage would go for me as a pick though,
if he is the main guy. Coming off the flak I've gotten for star wars, I would have thought I'd die pretty early, or at least be targeted early by a scumconsul.
@ bolding: Smooth. Didn't want to confirm or deny, did you?
You don't see yourself as being valuable to the team as mafia, even though I said a couple months back that you'd be an excellent mafia, since you can just creep by. Surely someone such as Kagemusha would see that. Even if you only managed to survive 2/3 of the way through the game, that's a bankable asset to a team that needs slaves to be alive as long as possible.
Also interesting to note is that there has been absolutely zero pressure on you vote-wise all game long, and no indication until now that anyone even considered you a suspect. Yet you've never been attacked by the mafia... after at least a couple of large games straight where you seemed to last until the very end or very near it. You haven't been
distracting, really... not like The Stranger had been. And the odds of a mafia dying go up every round, especially if you're innocent and there's zero pressure on you. A wise mafioso would have killed you by now. You have been getting a pass to do whatever you please... surely they would have seen that and eliminated you to keep as many suspects or potential lynchees alive as possible. Especially since it is highly unlikely that the Naib is defending you at night.
I'm uncooperative sometimes because I actively resist the playstyle of many other players, which is sit back and let you/sasaki/TC and a few others do the big fancy posts, then agree with whatever you say...kind of like what is happening here.
Well.... you can't really blame others for their wagoning playstyle when yours is to sit back and essentially waste your own vote on people who won't get lynched. You'll admit it isn't particularly useful for a townie to do... you're really just protesting what you perceive as mindless bandwagoning or trusting certain self-anointed leaders. It's more of a political statement than anything else.
But, you would have more of a point if you had been making more pointed accusations at people from time to time. It's ironic that your form of protest actually helps enable that kind of groupthink in others, because you don't offer much of an alternative by way of accusing suspects, and your vote when placed on someone obviously not going to be lynched, like splitpersonality, is just as "bad" as one placed on the end of a long bandwagon on kagemusha, let's say. It doesn't affect the outcome in the slightest. I get that you're doing it for a reason, but the goal you have in mind can never be achieved this way.
I can say two more things: 1. If I had been following this game as I should have, out of respect to Andres, my activity would be a lot more even.
How do you mean? Your activity was very even. You were a constant, if unnoticed, presence.
2. Why so personal at the end there?
It's not personal, it's just business.
If I critique your strategy it is for in-game purposes only. This has no bearing on who you are outside of the game and IRL.
And back in character. We've gone full circle, from
unserious to
srs to
unserious again. But here, it feels painted on. (A more logical argument you'll never find, surely.
)
If I am right, I will claim that I used the force and searched my feelings, and sensed the dark side in you.
If I am wrong, I'm blaming
Peasant Phill. Somehow this must be all
his fault...
Re: Daggers in the Night
It didn't matter, no one was listening to me, but I am somewhat shocked that you were not mafia.
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