Star Fox- Lylat Wars [Concluded]

[Romanic]

On one side we have Beskar accusing Pinman based on a somewhat suspicious post, but on the other side we have Pinman 1) claiming scanner 2) Revealing Beskar as Star Wolf 3) Confirming TheFlax's role to him.

One accusation is much stronger than the other. If we lynch Beskar and he wasn't Star Wolf, then we can lynch Pinman. On the other hand, if we lynch Pinman, we could lose a powerful role, and Beskar will be a tough lynch because he can argue his way out of it. After all his accusation was somewhat speculative.

The ghost of Falco says: Lynch Beskar!

[Chaotix]

The way to resolve this situation is simple.

Beskar, if you are not Wolf, you now have to provide your real role to us.

We choose which one of them to believe. We lynch the other. If the one we lynch is not mafia as we suspect, we lynch the other one next round.

It's really, really simple. One of these players is a mafioso, because one of them is lying.

[Beskar]

On one side we have Beskar accusing Pinman based on a somewhat suspicious post, but on the other side we have Pinman 1) claiming scanner 2) Revealing Beskar as Star Wolf 3) Confirming TheFlax's role to him.

One accusation is much stronger than the other. If we lynch Beskar and he wasn't Star Wolf, then we can lynch Pinman. On the other hand, if we lynch Pinman, we could lose a powerful role, and Beskar will be a tough lynch because he can argue his way out of it. After all his accusation was somewhat speculative.

The ghost of Falco says: Lynch Beskar!

It is a false claim from Pinman, I could tell you who theFlax is based on his posts alone. I could come and claim investigator myself, and tell TheFlax privately what his role is, and be seen as the shining knight. Want me to privately say it to TheFlax then he comes in here going "Beskar is right!" ? I mean, the odds are pretty 50/50% he is either is a Cornerian or a Vemon.

He is trying to back out of it, because not only me, but others have picked up on his scumtells. It is always the typical lame mafia move to "claim investigator" (See Psychonaut in Shadowfort, Sigurd in Netherworld, other many examples).

Also, there wouldn't be anyone to investigate Pinman anyway, even then, they couldn't even reveal it, could they? "Oh, I investigated Pinman, he is one of the mafia!", Pinman gets killed, the Big Bad kills that revealed investigator. It is a fishing technique, I wouldn't recommend some one to fall for such an obvious trap.

Let's do it this way. We lynch Pinman, if he turns out to be some sort of special-role, then you can direct your attention on me. Also, there is also the fact StarWolf is infact a neutral along with the vemonians, who are working against the Big Bad... yeah, his claim is very weak attempt.

Source (Pizza's starting story):

Star Wolf managed to escape, and Wolf O'Donnell vowed revenge against whoever had attacked him, and denied O'Donnell his final victory over Star Fox.

As it seems to be a Rubicon set-up, Star Wolf would be the "Vemonian pro-town", so half the town wouldn't want to kill one of their own power-roles. On the otherhand, all the town want to take out the Big Bad and mafia, which Pinman most likely is.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

It is a false claim from Pinman, I could tell you who theFlax is based on his posts alone. I could come and claim investigator myself, and tell TheFlax privately what his role is, and be seen as the shining knight. Want me to privately say it to TheFlax then he comes in here going "Beskar is right!" ? I mean, the odds are pretty 50/50% he is either is a Cornerian or a Vemon.

He is trying to back out of it, because not only me, but others have picked up on his scumtells. It is always the typical lame mafia move to "claim investigator" (See Psychonaut in Shadowfort, Sigurd in Netherworld, other many examples).

Also, there wouldn't be anyone to investigate Pinman anyway, even then, they couldn't even reveal it, could they? "Oh, I investigated Pinman, he is one of the mafia!", Pinman gets killed, the Big Bad kills that revealed investigator. It is a fishing technique, I wouldn't recommend some one to fall for such an obvious trap.

Let's do it this way. We lynch Pinman, if he turns out to be some sort of special-role, then you can direct your attention on me. Also, there is also the fact StarWolf is infact a neutral along with the vemonians, who are working against the Big Bad... yeah, his claim is very weak attempt.

That actually makes sense to me. If Pinman is a actual special role we can Lynch Beskar tommorow easily enough.....

But the same could be said the other way around. Ugh.

Vote: abstain. I will wait and see which side convinces me.

[Beefy187]

I like Romanics reasoning.
Its mafia games basic tactic to lynch the guy who Cop condemned then we lynch the Cop if he was wrong.

We have Flaxy backing up the cop claim.

Worrying point is the fact that Pinman is nothing more then a average Cornerian fighter and not some major character.
But knowing pizza and his kindness to give a fair chance to everyone who plays the game, it might be possible.

Anyway I say we lynch Beskar, then if its a bad lynch... Pinman

Unvote, Vote: Beskar

[landlubber]

Unvote, Vote: Beskar.
If Pinman can tell at least one person what role they have, then he's got to be at least legit as a scanner. So, I think Beskar's our best option.

[Double A]

Why would Joe Schmoe have an ability? It seems like only named roles would have them.

[Beskar]

Why would Joe Schmoe have an ability? It seems like only named roles would have them.

Because he is evidently lying.

Also, landlubber is also incorrect, as you can ask theFlax, I just pretty much told him what his role is, without having to do a scan. It is not legitimate in anything. (obviously, he has to publically post that it is true or not)

He is just trying to save himself desperately by attacking OMGUS against the main accuser against him.

[Beefy187]

Ok I'm in doubt.

Unvote, Vote: abstain

for now.

[God Emperor]

Vote beskar

we have nothing to gain by lynching Pinman before having his story tested. If Beskar actually is star wolf, then it would fall natural for Pinman to be murdered, but we would still have acces to his ability for another night.
That Beskar does not reach this conclusion himself, but instead is trying to convince us that lynching Pinman is the best way to deal with the situation, suggests that he is a bad (or neutral) role

[Pinman]

Beskar, the fact that you want me lynched so badly, and at this very moment, is disconcerting.

Is it perhaps because you know it will be impossible to lynch me tommorow?

[TheFlax]

Alirght, now here is a small clarification. My role was highly guessable, it does not necessarily prove anything for sure, but on the other hand, I'm not ready to lynch Pinman after his claim. Neither am I convinced we should lynch Beskar even if he were to be Starwolf. Remember here, people are jumping against Starwolf because preconceptions demand that he be a bad guy like the game. This isn't the N64 game, this is a mafia game, preconceptions are dangerous.

I'd rather take a more conservative wait and see approach, instead lynching an inactive/slash lurker this round.

Vote: Stuck in Pi

[Beskar]

That Beskar does not reach this conclusion himself, but instead is trying to convince us that lynching Pinman is the best way to deal with the situation, suggests that he is a bad (or neutral) role

Not really, it is actually, remarkably simple.

I happen to know what role I am, therefore, I do not need to "test him" by killing myself, because I evidently know the answer. I also evidently know the answer that is lying.

Even if his said accusation is correct, as seen in Pizza's right-up, Star Wolf is on the town side. Therefore, you would be killing one of the towns power-roles. In either case, a town member dies.

On the otherhand, I have one of the best scumdars in the gameroom, that I was able to pick up on Pinman, which made him come out with these obsurb claims.

Infact, the logic is actually this:

Kill Beskar, and you garentuee a town dies.

Kill Pinman, who is falsely claiming to be a 'scanner' who actually decides to reveal this "information" now, afterall, if I was mafia, would I been lynched earlier, other than when before he would die himself via a bandwagon?

So, which is it? You kill a townie, and possibly a town power role (Star Wofl), or actually kill a Mafia who is claiming to be a normal Cornerian which the ability to investigate everyone in the game which most likely shadows both johnhughthom (Katt) and Romanic (Falco) 's own abilities.

So the fact you don't reach this conclusion yourself, is because you are being easily fooled by classic scum tactics.

[Beskar]

Beskar, the fact that you want me lynched so badly, and at this very moment, is disconcerting.

Is it perhaps because you know it will be impossible to lynch me tommorow?

Pinman, if it wasn't for the fact you are trying to OMGUS bandwagon me with a false claim, then you could actually make to make a point with that statement. You was the one who started the lies about me being some mafia in order to save yourself, because you got caught out.

I mean, you had no problems apparently as Mr. Joe Smuck, the Cornerian haven't an "apparent mafia" running around, and you never brought this up sooner in the round, where others also called you out on your scummy actions, but just before you are infact going to die, you come out with this last minute claim, in order to attempt to save yourself.

[Pinman]

Now tell me Beskar - would you have revealed this information the second somebody voted for you? Or would you have waited until it was apparent there was nothing else to be done but tell the truth.

[Pinman]

Cooler heads than I have prevailed. I am positive that Beskar is Star Wolf, but cannot be sure that he is guilty.
Let independant minds take care of this by scanning tonight.

Vote: Stuck in Pi

[Beskar]

Now tell me Beskar - would you have revealed this information the second somebody voted for you? Or would you have waited until it was apparent there was nothing else to be done but tell the truth.

If I found the mafia, I would have told the town. One investigator, especially "Joe Smuck" is worth the cost of taking down a mafia. I would do my mafia honour.

On the otherhand, you never revealed anything till you pretty much was dead. Akin to Psychonaut in ShadowFort.

So who to believe? "Joe Smuck, your friendly local cornerian" who just happens to reveal "OMG Mafia" with his dying breath, or the desperate Mafia, clawing for survival in the final hours of the round?

Even then, the situation is slightly worse, as you are claiming I am a role who isn't even a mafia role, but infact, an anti-mafia role according to the write-ups from the host himself. So it would still make no sense in attempting to kill me, even if you was correct.

[Pinman]

Sorry.

Unvote; Vote: Stuck in Pi

[Beskar]

Cooler heads than I have prevailed. I am positive that Beskar is Star Wolf, but cannot be sure that he is guilty.
Let independant minds take care of this by scanning tonight.

Vote: Stuck in Pi

Actually, you just touched on something I said when replying on your other message. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish. However, since I will go with TheFlax said in private, and we allow an investigator to investigate you, to make sure you are not mafia.

Unvote; Vote: Stuck in Pi

I have nothing to lose by allowing you to be investigated, so i can agree to that with a clean conscience.

[Pinman]

And an investigator to check you, Star Wolf.

[God Emperor]

Cooler heads than I have prevailed. I am positive that Beskar is Star Wolf, but cannot be sure that he is guilty.
Let independant minds take care of this by scanning tonight.

Vote: Stuck in Pi

unvote, Vote: Pinman
twist and turns^^ now you are not even sure that he is guilty. though it at first seemed like a good option to have Beskar Lynched to prove Pinman right or wrong, it now seems almost unlikly that Beskar is Star Wolf.

the reason why I think that, is because of Pinman's message which I quoted, but also, what seems to me, Beskar's complete lack of knowledge towards Star Wolf as a person. He is Star Fox sworn enemy, so saying that Star Wolf is on cornerias side, which he never before has been, seems very unlikely. Naturally it might be Beskar that is just a clever person, but this has at least convinced me.
Sorry for the vote, for the moment, Beskar

[Pinman]

Me and Beskar made a deal, mediated through The Flax, that we'd let this go for now - and let the scanners take care of it.

[johnhughthom]

So Beskie did

one of the best scumdars in the gameroom

register a false positive or have you been

easily fooled by classic scum tactics.

?

[Chaotix]

Beskar is using BS logic here.

He wants us to forget that Team Star Wolf has been killing townies since night one. Last night's write-up with the Zapper is proof enough, if you think the other two are vague. The Zapper is Panther's signature weapon.

[Beskar]

Me and Beskar made a deal, mediated through The Flax, that we'd let this go for now - and let the scanners take care of it.

Don't be modest, you proposed the deal to me, as you didn't want to get lynched.

I only agreed, because if I get attacked tonight, it would be obvious you lied therefore, you just sealed your own fate to be doomed. As I said, if I end up dying at night, in order to bring down a mafia, it is my duty as a town to do so.

[Pinman]

I agree with you Chaotix, I think Star Wolf is anti -town, but I cannot be 100% positive.

Beskar - The Flax proposed that we vote for an inactive instead, don't lie. We merely negotiated the terms.

[Beskar]

Beskar is using BS logic here.

He wants us to forget that Team Star Wolf has been killing townies since night one. Last night's write-up with the Zapper is proof enough, if you think the other two are vague. The Zapper is Panther's signature weapon.

Count Dooku shakes his head at you in disappointment. You never learnt from your mistake in that game.

Pizza has written up that Wolf is against the Big Bad. Also in the game, Starfox Command, Fox and Wolf are working together against a common foe. In all plausability, Wolf would be just like the vemons, which is, against the big bad in a rubicon styled set-up. There is no "BS" at all from my end.

[Pinman]

Count Dooku shakes his head at you in disappointment. You never learnt from your mistake in that game.

Pizza has written up that Wolf is against the Big Bad. Also in the game, Starfox Command, Fox and Wolf are working together against a common foe. In all plausability, Wolf would be just like the vemons, which is, against the big bad in a rubicon styled set-up. There is no "BS" at all from my end.

I am extremely pleased that you are no longer even bothering to deny that you are Star Wolf.

[Double A]

It's not unlikely though that this is a 3-way battle, unless "something" happens.

[Diana Abnoba]

Vote: Astain at this time, will await the investigation results on Beskar and Pinman to make my final decision.