Star Fox- Lylat Wars [Concluded]

[Pinman]

Let us examine the situation:

1. I am claiming to have a scan ability, and have provided ample evidence of this ability. It should be fairly obvious to all concerned that Beskar is in fact Star Wolf. To top that off, I have also correctly told TheFlax his role (Although, of course, this could be guessed).

Anybody doubting the scan ability is simply paranoid.

2. I have claimed to be a simple Cornerian - which seems to be implausable. I have not, because there is no way too during this phase, provided any evidence to support this claim. However, it is a simple matter of waiting till the night phase to check this out.

In the meantime, given the (very minimal) uncertainty surrounding the alllignment of Star Wolf, we can wait and lynch an inactive.

I can't understand the uncertainty here.

[Yaropolk]

Unvote: Pinman; Vote: Beskar

Pinman laid his cards out on the table. If we lynch Beskar, and he's not Star Wolf, Pinman is next. There is no way to twist the truth. A Beskar lynch will give us concrete information on Pinman.

Beskar on the other hand has said nothing which could be proven false tonight by lynchin Pinman. If Pinman is lynched and revealed to be a scanner, Beskar will get a chance tomorrow to twist the news to his side. E.G. yes I'm Star Wolf, but I'm not bad. Or if Pinman's death doesnt show a clear reveal, Beskie's off the hook without much of a defense.

[Yaropolk]

Beskar - if you're really pro town then either confirm or deny that you're Wolf O'Donnel. At the very least that will either confirm Pinman as investigator or accuse him of lies. I encourage everyone to put pressure on Beskar to claim by voting for him.

[Romanic]

What you're ignoring with many others is that this is a Rubicon type setup, where both cornerians and venomians have mirror power roles on their side. Now, like in that game we can fight against each other or we can kill the bad guys.

I haven't looked at Rubicon until now, and from what I gathered there was two factions, Ceasarians and Pompeians, fighting against each other for victory, without any bad guys around. This one here is different, with the Big Bad around.

I can imagine a setup pitting Star Fox vs Star Wolf, with the Venomians stuck in the middle, with a possibility to pick either side. It is now obvious to me why you are strongly suggesting... er what you are suggesting. Let's drop this debate, and we'll see how things develop, but Cornerians shouldn't dismiss the possibility that Star Wolf is our enemy.

Explain to me why do we need to pick a side in the Beskar v. Pinman debate now?

Procrastination is rarely good, and tomorrow may bring something new that will require out attention. Resolving this today is best, otherwise the same questions will resurface tomorrow.

How can you be sure lynching even one of them is a good choice?

I'm not. How can you be sure that keeping both alive is a good choice?

Also, I'm really disliking the way you're painting me here.

I'm painting you the way I see it. You appear to be sticking your nose somewhere you don't belong. I would rather see Beskar and Pinman fight each other than having a diplomat coming out of nowhere to resolve delay the matter. How can we be sure of anything if you work the arguments and the solution with them?

[Romanic]

Enjoy this unofficial tally:

7 Pinman (ArpTHIS, autolycus, Double A, God Emperor, JHT, miotas, WEW)
5 Stuck in Pi (Beefy, Beskar, DiY, Pinman, Flax)
4 Beskar (landlubber,pevergreen, Stuck in Pi, Yaropolk)
1 ArpegiateTHIS (Khazaar)
1 wideyedwanderer (Nightbringer)
*****
4 abstrain (CDF, Diana, Secura, Seon)
*****
14 Not voting

[Beskar]

Vote: ArpeggiateTHIS

I would like to point out the most nonsensical vote in this entire round.

FoS: Khazaar

[Renata]

vote: Beskar

I hate to place a vote when I'm not sure I'll be around to move it, but Beskar, you really need to put up or shut up at this point. Claim your role and your goals.

[hell_hound]

vote:no lynch

I do not wish to lynch stuck in pi as he is no longer inactive

Voting for Pinman is absurd if he truly is a scanner

Voting for Beskar if he truly is a power neutral role. How long does it take people to realise that neutral means neutral and does not mean evil!

[Skooma Addict]

I haven't looked at Rubicon until now, and from what I gathered there was two factions, Ceasarians and Pompeians, fighting against each other for victory, without any bad guys around. This one here is different, with the Big Bad around.



I can imagine a setup pitting Star Fox vs Star Wolf, with the Venomians stuck in the middle, with a possibility to pick either side. It is now obvious to me why you are strongly suggesting... er what you are suggesting. Let's drop this debate, and we'll see how things develop, but Cornerians shouldn't dismiss the possibility that Star Wolf is our enemy.









Procrastination is rarely good, and tomorrow may bring something new that will require out attention. Resolving this today is best, otherwise the same questions will resurface tomorrow.







I'm not. How can you be sure that keeping both alive is a good choice?







I'm painting you the way I see it. You appear to be sticking your nose somewhere you don't belong. I would rather see Beskar and Pinman fight each other than having a diplomat coming out of nowhere to resolve delay the matter. How can we be sure of anything if you work the arguments and the solution with them?

Procrastination can be a good thing, particularly with collecting evidence to back a claim. If you're unsure about someone it's not a bad idea to allow them to make a mistake on their own, or possibly prove their innocence. I have sent a few innocent players home early due to premature action, purely ignorance on my part. I would like to avoid that here if possible. Keeping them both alive for now, I believe, is a better decision then lynching either one. The situation is odd to say the least. Pinman claims to be a normal cornie town with scanning abilities and that besker is star wolf, which doesn't really mean too much since we don't have supporting evidence that star wolf is pro-mafia this game. On the other hand, beskar is cunningly dodging the question with redirects. The truth will be made known in due time. We should be focusing on stopping who is actually killing us, and what paths to take to get to that end. The info thread states that our winning condition is to eliminate the big bad along with other hostile forces. Nights 1 and 3 there were two kills when night 2 had only one. I think it's likely there's another faction attacking us, possibly even misguided vig kills, or perhaps an aggressive neutral if such a thing exists. Though to a degree, I do agree with your perspective on private arrangements. I feel that discussions done privately are more detrimental then helpful due to the fact that you no longer have the resources of every town player being able to analyze and dissect the subtleties of the conversation. Right now, I think we are at a stand still. You want action instead of stagnation and normally that would work for the towns benefit in the end, but I do not feel strongly that acting on either candidate will pay off just yet. I would like more time and info. I think right now we can still afford to bide our time. Vote: Abstain Only to possibly prevent the two proposed power roles in question from being lynched and I would ask those who have not voted yet to do so before it is too late. We need the efforts and opinions of everyone.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Vote: abstain

I kind of want to hear a little more from Beskar.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Abstain Only to possibly prevent the two proposed power roles in question from being lynched and I would ask those who have not voted yet to do so before it is too late. We need the efforts and opinions of everyone

Just a reminder, Abstain and No Lynch are two different votes.

Abstain means "Present" but you have no opinion and thus, your vote is only counted for activity. It has no effect on the tally, and there will be a lynch.

No Lynch means "I have an opinion" and that opinion is, predictably, don't lynch anyone. That means if No Lynch outnumbers the top lynch candidate, there is no lynch.

[TheFlax]

Voting Abstain = voting for Pinman to die at the moment. Think on that.

[seireikhaan]

vote:no lynch

I do not wish to lynch stuck in pi as he is no longer inactive

Voting for Pinman is absurd if he truly is a scanner

Voting for Beskar if he truly is a power neutral role. How long does it take people to realise that neutral means neutral and does not mean evil!

Neutral means they aren't pro-town. Which means they're evil, assuming you want the town to win.
Vote: Beskar

[TheFlax]

Neutral means they aren't pro-town. Which means they're evil, assuming you want the town to win.
Vote: Beskar

Hogwash, that's not what the victory conditions say at all.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Voting Abstain = voting for Pinman to die at the moment. Think on that.

Unvote: abstain, Vote: Stuck in Pi

because apparently Beskar and Pinman are friends now or something. But really, did these back room deals actually reach some kind of consensus? (and by that I mean, care to tell the masses about it rather than keep it hidden?)

[autolycus]

unvote: Pinman, vote: Beskar I don't trust Star Wolf as far as I can throw him, which is none too far.

[TheFlax]

Unvote: abstain, Vote: Stuck in Pi

because apparently Beskar and Pinman are friends now or something. But really, did these back room deals actually reach some kind of consensus?

"Backroom deal" is being touted a lot, but there really isn't much to it. All of the arguments discussed in private have also been made in public, I mainly just asked them both in private if they'd be ready to vote for a third party, to which they said "yes". Also, remember, I didn't choose to do all of this, I was brought in because I had been supposedly investigated by Pinman and thus became involved in the Pinman v. Beskar debate.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

"Backroom deal" is being touted a lot, but there really isn't much to it. All of the arguments discussed in private have also been made in public, I mainly just asked them both in private if they'd be ready to vote for a third party, to which they said "yes". Also, remember, I didn't choose to do all of this, I was brought in because I had been supposedly investigated by Pinman and thus became involved in the Pinman v. Beskar debate.

oh. So nothing actually got resolved?

[Askthepizzaguy]

edit, hold on

[TheFlax]

oh. So nothing actually got resolved?

No. My idea of lynching a third party was to give us time to gather info, not give a free pass to either Beskar or Pinman. And no, there isn't some sort of big conspiracy of shadowy deals, sorry.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Beskar: (7) landlubber, pevergreen, Stuck in Pi, Yaro, Renata, Yaseikhaan, autolycus
Pinman: (6) Arpeggiate, WEW, Double A, God Emperor, JHT, miotas
Stuck in Pi: (6) Flax, Pinman, Beskar, DIY, Beefy, CDF
Wideyedwanderer: (1) Nightbringer
ArpeggiateTHIS: (1) Khazaar

No Lynch: (1) hell hound

abstain: (5) Diana, Seon, Secura, Skooma, ATPGood

Both my original tally, and my updated tally, and Romanic's tally were ALL bad.

That means I did a careful tally from the beginning.

This one is accurate.

[Beskar]

Vote: Beskar

It wouldn't surprise me you being wrong again, Palpatine.

[Romanic]

Both my original tally, and my updated tally, and Romanic's tally were ALL bad.

That means I did a careful tally from the beginning.

This one is accurate.

Errr, pever is allowed to vote. Sorry

I thought he was dead, but aye, he came back as a sub.

[Chaotix]

You guys keep going on about clues in the write-up when there are supposed to be none. Here's the deal:

If you consider Star Wolf to be "Pro-town" or "Neutral" or whatever, then there are clearly clues in the write-ups pointing to them as murderers.

However. If Star Wolf is considered right from the beginning to be "Anti-town", then there are no clues in the write-ups. Because, you have to already assume that Star Wolf would be killing people. And as a result, the only new information you get is whether or not it was this Andross/Big Bad character OR Star Wolf. Who are both assumed to be enemies.

The only way ATPG isn't breaking his own rules is with the second explanation.

Therefore, lynch Beskar.

[Pinman]

oh. So nothing actually got resolved?

I am not friends with Star Wolf. I think he is almost certainly an enemy of the town.

The almost is what caused me to change my vote - for today.

[seireikhaan]

It wouldn't surprise me you being wrong again, Palpatine.

I seem to recall you calling me evil and guilty in every game I wasn't. Good to know you're over that nasty habit, though I'd appreciate it if you would stop calling me by my old, innocent townsperson names.

[Beskar]

You guys keep going on about clues in the write-up when there are supposed to be none.

Even though the write-ups say who was killed and in what manner...

If you consider Star Wolf to be "Pro-town" or "Neutral" or whatever, then there are clearly clues in the write-ups pointing to them as murderers.

However. If Star Wolf is considered right from the beginning to be "Anti-town", then there are no clues in the write-ups. Because, you have to already assume that Star Wolf would be killing people. And as a result, the only new information you get is whether or not it was this Andross/Big Bad character OR Star Wolf. Who are both assumed to be enemies.

So to summarise, if you believe Wolf is pro-town/neutral power-role, then there are clues in the write-ups, then there are clues pointing them as murderers.

The alignment of Wolf has no bearing on whenever or not there are clues in the write-up.

However, if there are no clues, you have to automatically assume he would be killing people as a mafia.

Same critical logic failure.

Who are both assumed to be enemies.

This is an assumption with no bearing on reality. As posted by the Host:
12. The Big Bad (main enemy of the game)

* This is the role that the Town and Neutral factions start off opposing.
* The Big Bad could be anyone.
* There may be more than one Big Bad... or just one, depending on what happens.

The Big Bad is the enemy of the game. The "Star Wolf is Mafia" is simply because Chaotix decides to say so, irrespective of any factual information.

The only way ATPG isn't breaking his own rules is with the second explanation.

Therefore, the only way the host being fair is with this logic disapproves your own point?

huh?

Therefore, listen to me.

Because the ability to pull rabbits out of magic holes means you are correct.

[Skooma Addict]

Voting Abstain = voting for Pinman to die at the moment. Think on that.

Right, forgot the rules. Seems someone has to go today. Unvote, Vote: Stuck in Pi I would vote for no-lynch but it would have no impact I'm afraid.

[Pinman]

Has Beskar roleclaimed yet?

[Stuck in Pi]

I think I missed something here. Why exactly am I being lynched?