What book are you reading?

**Centurion1** · 06-29-2010, 02:59

What may I ask is wrong with Leviathan by thomas hobbes? It is a read everyone should have to do.some of his ideas on the nation were inspired.

**Centurion1** · 06-29-2010, 03:10

Oh and ca look ahead a little bit just finished rereading all martins books. Some of my favorites. Please engage me in discussion about them I don't know who to talk with about them your the first other reader I've met

**CountArach** · 06-29-2010, 03:55

Originally Posted by Centurion1

What may I ask is wrong with Leviathan by thomas hobbes? It is a read everyone should have to do.some of his ideas on the nation were inspired.

Leviathan from a purely philosophical standpoint has so many problems. I took a philosophy course that touched on it at University a couple of years ago and the largest issue boils down to his natural state where he assumes two things:
1) All people are relatively equal
2) The strong will prey on the weak
These two things are not at all philosophically coherent and then the conclusions that he draws from them are bizarre. One that leaps to mind is "We need a strong state that has the right to censor whatever it wants" without proving the underlying basis for censorship. Large logical leaps such as this are replete throughout the text.

Oh and ca look ahead a little bit just finished rereading all martins books. Some of my favorites. Please engage me in discussion about them I don't know who to talk with about them your the first other reader I've met

I want your opinion on something - did you find that the people you were drawn to like the most were the people who had physical disabilities or were in some way 'other'? For me the people I most like are Bran, Jon and Tyrion. A cripple, a bastard and a dwarf respectively. Very few of the true 'heroes' of the story seem to be 'normal'. That brings me to another thing that I found interesting - you are constantly questioning who could be considered the person most deserving of the throne.

**Centurion1** · 06-29-2010, 04:54

One of my favorite characters is tyrion. And jon is also another favorite. Arya rounds out my top three individuall characters. I'm not really a fan of bran not because he himself is a bland character but because his storyline is not the thread I especially like. My personaly favorite storyline (not nessecarily character) is daenarys.

I hate cersei and lady arryn mostly because one is evil and one is a weak mother who raised a weak child.

Characters I like but are imo relatively minor, robb, lady stark, most northmen I like.

Characters I'm ambivalent towards, samwell (hate his cowardice love his kindness) lord lannister (he is in the end a good leader), shocking one probably for you jaime lannister.

Ugh you haven't read so many new developments my development and opinions of the characters is going to be completely different, you have no idea what's going to go down, you say what you like martin ain't afriad to kill his characters off.

As for leviathan I never said it was perfect just that some of its ideas are good. And hobbes writing style is pretty reminiscent of his time for philosophy.

**Subotan** · 06-29-2010, 10:34

Originally Posted by Centurion1

What may I ask is wrong with Leviathan by thomas hobbes? It is a read everyone should have to do.some of his ideas on the nation were inspired.

Mainly it is the Ye Olde Englishe that fills me with dread, as well as the thickness of the book.

Originally Posted by CountArach

Leviathan from a purely philosophical standpoint has so many problems. I took a philosophy course that touched on it at University a couple of years ago and the largest issue boils down to his natural state where he assumes two things:
1) All people are relatively equal
2) The strong will prey on the weak
These two things are not at all philosophically coherent and then the conclusions that he draws from them are bizarre. One that leaps to mind is "We need a strong state that has the right to censor whatever it wants" without proving the underlying basis for censorship. Large logical leaps such as this are replete throughout the text.

Which is particularly ironic, since his book was banned..

**Centurion1** · 06-29-2010, 16:05

Ah can't argue there subo the language can be a real pain. But I find with things like that its much easier when you get into a rhythm

**Rhyfelwyr** · 06-29-2010, 16:45

In fairness to Hobbes he was actually trying to find a compromise for the two sides in the civil war, combining the idea that the king governed by contract for one side, with monarchical absolutism on the other.

Although today it does appear like he supported a very authoritarian government.

**Martok** · 06-29-2010, 18:28

Originally Posted by CountArach

For me the people I most like are Bran, Jon and Tyrion. A cripple, a bastard and a dwarf respectively.

Those were, in fact, the *only* three characters I liked at all. Everyone one else is either evil and/or too dumb/annoying to live.

I will never understand the appeal of that series, especially as the characters are almost universally unlikeable (with the exception of the afore-mentioned three). But then, I generally don't care for stories taking place in a crapsack world either.

**ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88** · 06-29-2010, 18:58

Worse then War is what I am reading.

**Centurion1** · 06-29-2010, 19:16

Martok what about arya and daenerys?

**johnhughthom** · 06-29-2010, 20:19

Reading Mr X by Peter Straub, pretty much the only fiction I read now.

**Myrddraal** · 07-05-2010, 19:21

Well I finished the Flashman Papers. Overall I was underwhelmed. The most entertaining thing about this book is the historical setting, and the descriptions of the scenarios in which Flashman finds himself. These gave me a real taste for the history of the region at the time, but it's a shame that his personal plot is so predictable.