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  1. #1
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help against Parthia (Pahlava)

    Garrison forces

    Parthian Spearmen + Persian Archers + Slingers. Very cheap combination, great against cavalry.
    Persian Archers are pathetic in melee, but have a higher range and more ammo than Archer-Spearmen. Meaning they are better as static wall defences, especially when deployed on a stone wall as close as possible to enemy forces before the sally. If you use them on a wall, make sure to put them on "guard mode" and turn skirmish mode off (same goes for slingers). Use them to shoot enemy HAs, axemen, and Dahae Skirmishers.
    Slingers are good vs heavy cavalry, especially Cataphract HAs. Secondary use is against mercenary phalanxes or other heavy infantry.
    Parthian Spearmen make good melee troops if you use them against cavalry or foot archers. From the fron, they are quite resistant to arrows.



    Field army

    Archer-Spearmen + Parthian Spearmen + phalanx + whatever else is available.

    Prodromoi are quite good against light cavalry or as chargers against anything. Use them to pursue and isolate enemy cavalry units. They have a decent resistance to missiles.
    Don't use full stacks as the enemy in this case always retreats during mid-battle. Use slingers to decimate the enemy's bodyguards as much as possible. Then try to isolate them by luring them away. Charge with own cavalry.

    Hide in woods whenever possible. Axemen and light spearmen types can destroy enemy cavalry in an ambush. Also, archers are less powerful in forests.
    Last edited by athanaric; 07-06-2010 at 19:26.




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  2. #2
    Apprentice Geologist Member Blxz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help against Parthia (Pahlava)

    athanaric made some very good points there. There is a good selection of eastern troops available to you. You just need to find out where your weakness is and compensate for it. If they are using too many light horse archers and you can't fight them then load up your own army with more archers. If they are heavy on the charging cavalry then step up your spearmen. Also keep your cavalry in reserve and then flank them once they have engaged your line. In a direct fight you will be having a more difficult time as their cavalry is superior in most cases.

    Also if you can keep your generals alive then losing large battles is good as it will allow you to get the reforms. I am having trouble getting the reforms on my current Seleukid game since none of the other factions seem powerful enough to trigger them for me, even when I deliberatly lose. The addition of heavy Cata horses could be useful for you.
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  3. #3
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help against Parthia (Pahlava)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blxz View Post
    The addition of heavy Cata horses could be useful for you.
    Even better for you are the TAB, who are immune to arrows and can defeat any cavalry in melee.

    It's also a good idea to keep light axemen (e.g. Tabargân-e Erânshahr) in reserve (to use against cataphracts and infantry), however they need to be wary of arrows - keep them away from the enemy's light HAs and foot archers.




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  4. #4

    Default Re: Help against Parthia (Pahlava)

    I have never played as the Seleukids (I like to build my own empire) but I have crushed Pahlava and Saka playing as Baktria (not sure same units are recruited but I'm guessing its similar).

    Despite what everyone here is saying I found my archers to be almost useless against Pahlava, for one thing the enemies archers have longer range and their entire army has missile capability so you are completely outgunned and with poor defences archers are easily killed.

    Next I moved on to the phalanx tactic, no doubt would be effective if you could carefully maneouvre and pin down those pesky horse archers but once they have surrounded/flanked you you are in big trouble with no counter and those Dahae skirmisher cavalry proved particularly devastating

    So I stumbled on to the Thorakitai, it was only then that I started to control the battles. With enough armour to easily soak up any arrows (I think if you face the enemy you'll lose a couple of men on a full buckle of HA ammo) enough flexibility to maneuver and charge vulnerable units(and the all important spear throwing ability for fighting those Dahae) and more than enough sticking power in combat to wipe the floor with any cavalry/light infantry foolish enough to enter combat these guys single handedly defeated saka and Pahlavan armies in the thousands (Although as pointed out by others are significantly better in siege assaults - 2 units of thorikitai held off a half stack of Saka Cavalry in my siege defence just by holding the hill)

  5. #5
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help against Parthia (Pahlava)

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingPig View Post
    So I stumbled on to the Thorakitai, it was only then that I started to control the battles. With enough armour to easily soak up any arrows (I think if you face the enemy you'll lose a couple of men on a full buckle of HA ammo) enough flexibility to maneuver and charge vulnerable units(and the all important spear throwing ability for fighting those Dahae) and more than enough sticking power in combat to wipe the floor with any cavalry/light infantry foolish enough to enter combat these guys single handedly defeated saka and Pahlavan armies in the thousands (Although as pointed out by others are significantly better in siege assaults - 2 units of thorikitai held off a half stack of Saka Cavalry in my siege defence just by holding the hill)
    Damn yeah, I somehow forgot them. Thorakitai are the one unit that gave me the most headaches when playing Pahlava or Saka against the AS. Nasty buggers they are.




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    Member Member anubis88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help against Parthia (Pahlava)

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Damn yeah, I somehow forgot them. Thorakitai are the one unit that gave me the most headaches when playing Pahlava or Saka against the AS. Nasty buggers they are.
    They just don't rout sometimes... My poor cata's were exhausted all the time charging at them, trying to get them to break :S
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    Member Member ARCHIPPOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help against Parthia (Pahlava)

    Just adding that you have quite an effective heavy cavalry branch yourself. Your Hetairoi bodyguards can smash ANY kind of cavalry the Pahlava can field.except from cataphract-variety units and Parthian bodyguard that is.The Pahlava bodyguard is better than yours but it's also slower.Which means you can chase after them and catch them.Or charge them repeatedly till you kill them off.But keep in mind that your bodyguard is not immune to arrow fire and they will die if they expose their backs to missiles.Also don't rush your hetairoi over long distances.If they get more tired than the Spahbade Pahlavanig they'll lose their speed edge and get powned in melee.DO use FM en masse. Some people might consider it cheating, exploiting etc.However Saka/Parthians/Sauro catas and FMs are absolute tanks so it comes down to applying every possible edge against them.So if it is possible overwhelm them with superior numbers.Band together 2-3 Family members and use them as armour killers.

    My personal experience on the subject coming from my Baktrian wars against the Saka is that the best way to counter HA armies is deploying your own HAs and FMs all-cavalry armies.Failing to do that go for the pantodapoi phallangitai /slingers/archers/FMs combo which guys already described.It has limitations but works ok.One other thing is try to be as resourceful and sneaky as you can.Use forests and elevated terrain to full advantage (if you can).

    Also i find it remarkable that the AI in your battles saves up arrows.From my experience after 10-15 minutes the AI has spent all ammunition and then it's easy to lure him in melee.So it became simply a question of absorbing the enemy fire for some time and then getting payback (and i do play in VH/M difficulty settings) hmmmm, what exe. do you use ???
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  8. #8
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help against Parthia (Pahlava)

    It is difficult to get the heavier Seleukid troops to the front lines against Parthia though especially if most of your fighting is taking place around Asaak or Antiochia Margiane. Also remember, he likely needs resources elsewhere to deal with Ptolies, Pontus, Baktria, etc. The Seleucid economy is not that great when you need several armies all across your empire and many of your cities are developing/disorderly/or need large garrisons to defend against attackers.

    I recommend lots and lots of Persian Archer Spearmen. Arrows will take down infantry, spears will deal with cavalry.
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  9. #9
    Klibanophoros Ton Rhomaioktono Member Duguntz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help against Parthia (Pahlava)

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Garrison forces

    Archer-Spearmen + Parthian Spearmen + phalanx + whatever else is available.

    .
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