Recommendations for vacation in Belgium/Netherlands

[Ser Clegane]

After last year's vacation in France was so much fun, my wife and I decided to visit our neighbours in Belgium and the Netherlands this September for a round trip.

Any recommendations on which places to visit?

We plan for ~15 days (splitting the time roughly 60:40 between Belgium and NL).

Currently we have the following palces on our "short list"

Belgium:
- Bruges
- Antwerp
- Brussels
- Ghent
- Leuven
- Grottes de Han

Netherlands:
- Den Haag
- Utrecht
- s'Hertogenbosch
- Leiden
- Kinderdijk
(we will skip Amsterdam as we have been there several times)

Are there some "gems" and/or "must sees" that we should include but do not have on the list yet (or any special recommendations for the places we already have on the list)? Anything we might remove because it would be somewhat redundant? (the current list already seems long for 15 days so for any additions we would consider removing something)

Any other usefuls ideas/websites etc.?

Thanks a lot in advance for hints

[Rhyfelwyr]

You could visit Fragony.

You should try to be in the Netherlands if they win the world cup, then you can deck yourself in orange and celebrate on the Twelfth. I know it's what I'll be doing (don't infract me! ).

[Tellos Athenaios]

If you are traveling by car, make sure you don't attempt to get in/out of Den Haag or Utrecht at rush hour (starts roughly at 16:00, ends about 19:00 - 20:00 depending on where you are). Especially not Den Haag, those traffic jams are nasty. Leiden is a bit right in the middle of that (so while Leiden itself may not be so bad, you may end up caught in the traffic jams around Rotterdam or Den Haag or Utrecht depending on where you are staying instead.)

Leiden is also a centre of sinology and oriental studies, its hortus botanicus reflects that. As does the Museum Volkenkunde and the Siebold Huis. (Siebold was a doctor who went to Japan and managed to smuggle quite a few 17th century Japanese objects out of the country against a fairly explicit ban by the then Shogun; but on the other hand he did bring them a lot of medical advancement and expertise so I guess that this is why they were lenient with him.) Another museum you may want to consider is RMO (Rijksmuseum van Oudheden).

When in Den Haag you may also want to visit Madurodam (in Scheveningen, which is about right next to Den Haag) which is a park with minitatures of all sorts of Dutch sites. Can be fairly busy at times.

If you like trains (or royalty) you probably want to visit Spoorweg Museum in Utrecht which is located in the old Maliebaan railway station, has right now an exposition of Royal Carriages (not just Dutch btw, carriages from all over Europe): it is still a working station in the sense there are occasional services between it and Centraal. More of an interesting tidbit than interesting to spend your day actively looking at: Utrecht has of course the Oude Gracht, which is hard too miss (much the same way you can't miss the Prinsengracht or Herengracht in Amsterdam) but it is fairly unique in how it got built and in the fact that there's some exceedingly rare fauna in there (due to the type of structures and the fact that underneath it run pipes which carry hot water). EDIT: The Oude Gracht is however a nice location for dinner. If the David (casa di david) is still around, that is a nice place to go.[**]

If you *are* traveling by car it may be worth doing a bit of a round trip around some of the older, smaller towns in North Holland. The idea is that while none of those towns is so particularly appealing to spend a day driving for, most of them do make a decent stop/break to cut the tedium and there's some nice scenery (flowers, dikes, mills) that tourists seem to like so much about the Netherlands you'll drive through. Also, if you want to visit the beach or simply cool off Callantsoog should fit in nicely; driving south to Shoorl you eventually get a nice dune landscape for stretching your legs a bit again -- and you can avoid a fair amount of traffic as it runs parallel to (but 10-20 km to the west of) the highway. A real place to spend some time however could be the Zuiderzeemuseum in Enkhuizen[*]. It is re-enactment which is considerably more fun if you have kids (or if you are a small kid yourself) than if you don't have them, though.

Alternatively you can do a similar trip through Friesland, which lacks the flowers (and the dunes) but does offer two different things: Skûtsjesilen (a race for Tjalks/Skutsje, with bonus points for sailing close to the water) and Eise Eisinga planetarium.
[*] Similar museums in concept but IMO not quite as much fun: Archeon (Alphen aan de Rhijn; does some Roman and Medieval history), Openluchtmuseum (Arnhem; does farms).

Note I have not been to all those activities/places/attractions or when I have I may no longer remember it sufficiently accurately to be of much help. So best to google around a bit.

[**]As for Utrecht a little “nice” thing to see is the Nijntje pleintje which is just that: “nice”. There are lots of musea in Utrecht, Leiden and just about every place of some significance in the Netherlands has at least one anyway. So the best thing to do is to google the town/city name you intend to go to, plus the keyword “museum” or “musea”. Also a wikipedia lookup of the places you intend to visit helps a lot.

[Moros]

Rush hour problems are even worse around Brussels, nor would I recommend to travel by car to anwerps during rush hour.
All the places you mention are easy accessable by train.

What kind of interests do you have? It depends on what you want to see, like, visit,... Always feel free to pm or ask questions about any place in Belgium. I also know my way pretty well in Amsterdam... So if you need any tips.

Also If you go visit Belgium and the Netherlands, you might also be interested in some of the weastern places of Germany? Trier is great if you like Roman history (and is very close by), Köln is a bit farther but has a great art museum of about the same class as Centre Pompidou, the Tate,... Amsterdam has the Van Gogh museum which is great as well. One tip if you go to Amsterdam don't visit the Anne Frank museum, the wait time is immense and not worth it at all. Don't take a boat trip either, Amsterdam is a rather filthy and ugly city (I think Liège is much prettier), but has some interesting to visit. Walking in the red light district can be funny and entertaining as well, yes even with your wife. I walked through it even with my mother and I must say it was an interesting and amusing sight. If you go to Belgium you should taste and try some beers, I knowsome great adresses for that if you need.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Also: if you need to ask someone in the Netherlands for help, don't try German. Best to stick with English (unless you know your Dutch).

[Cyclops]

My brother took his family to the Hague for a court case (he's a lawyer not a defendant) and their 6-year old son really disliked the Netherlands. He said to me when he got back "you might as well go in a field and stick your bottom in the air as go to Holland!". Highly articulate child, I was stunned.

The rest of the family loved the countryside and had lovely fun cycling and picnicking. Apparently they found the food a bit of a challenge and darted over to Belgium and France for a decent meal from time to time.

Also: if you need to ask someone in the Netherlands for help, don't try German. ....

Is it true they ask Germans for their grandfathers bicycles back?

[Tellos Athenaios]

My brother took his family to the Hague for a court case (he's a lawyer not a defendant) and their 6-year old son really disliked the Netherlands. He said to me when he got back "you might as well go in a field and stick your bottom in the air as go to Holland!". Highly articulate child, I was stunned.

Court cases in Den Haag or Kinderdijk etc. are a bit boring for a six year old.

Is it true they ask Germans for their grandfathers bicycles back?

If they can manage to utter a single correct sentence in German at all? Trouble is that quite a few people seem to assume it's only polite (or an excellent excuse) to answer in mock “Swiss” from when they were in highschool while butchering the vital cues of grammar, vocabulary and idiom you've come to rely on for surviving Switzerland. So it gets tricky if you need help with your satnav.

[Beskar]

I know a couple of dutch people who speak better English than dutch. Even more amusing, they all have these American accents, so prepare for a rainbow of American accented English. I remember one with a slight western draw.

[Fragony]

I can really recommend my hometown Amersfoort, it's cozy, beautiful, and absolutely packed with great restaurants.

And that bike thing is a cliche, things change, nowadays we love our neighbours.

[Andres]

Touristic information:

Bruges (Brugge) is a must. Allthough the whole city is like a museum, there are plenty of interesting musea. Just follow THIS LINK and pick what you like. If you like art, then make sure you get to the Memling museum. If you're interested in food, then you should go to the Friet museum and the Chocolate museum. You can visit the canals by boat. If you have the time, then visit the city also in the evening/at night; the scenery is magnificent.

And of course, Antwerp and Brussels are absolute musts. I suggest you visit those using public transport. In Brussels, the best way to get somewhere is by using the metro. Antwerp has a metro system as well. Information about most Brussels musea can be found here - info about Antwerp museums : here.

If you're interested in W.W. I, then don't forget to visit Ieper (Ypres). There's the In Flanders Fields-museum and in the surroundings you can still find authentic trenches. If you have an hour or so left, then go visit "Het Stedelijk Museum", it gives you a brief history of the city itself, it's pretty interesting, since Ieper was also a very important medieval city, which most people tend to forget sometimes. You can do a nice walk on the old ramparts and casemates as well, be sure to ask for information in the Tourist office. Also, each night, at 8.00 pm, the last post is played at the Menin Gate in Ieper, to remember the soldiers of the British Empire, who fought and died in the Ypres Salient during WW I. It's pretty impressive.

If WW II is your thing, then you'll have to go to the Ardennes, make sure you get to Bastogne (historical center: http://www.bastognehistoricalcenter....os%20pratiques, opening hours in June: from 9h30-18h00 (sorry site only available in French, so it seems) and La Roche[/url] (I can recommend you to visit the Castle ruins and the Battle of the Ardennes Museum, if you only have time for one, pick the Castle ruins); if you go by car, you can do those two in one day (if you're fast...).

If you want more military history, then other cities in Wallony, very worhty of a visit are Dinant[/url] and Namur (in Dutch: Namen)[/url]; both cities have quite impressive citadelles (Citadelle de Dinant: http://www.citadellededinant.be/gb/index.htm + Citadelle de Namûr : http://www.citadelle.namur.be/home.php?lang=EN).

The Grottes of Hannes are also a must see. If you're interested, there are many more grottes to visit in Belgium; just let me know and I'll post some links.

A general note: if you don't always want to use the care, then don't worry. You'll pretty much get anywhere using public transport, it'll just take a bit longer.

Public transport:
* Train : http://www.b-rail.be/main/E/index.php
* Bus/Tram/Metro (American: "Why do you guys have three different websites for Bus services in a country the seize of a handkerchief?" Belgian : "Please, don't ask...") :
- Flanders : http://www.delijn.be/ (only in Dutch)
- Wallony : http://www.infotec.be/index.aspx?Pag...34022642174032 (only in French)
- Brussels: http://www.mivb.be/index.htm?guest_user=guest_en (available in English!)


Copy pasted this from an earlier post; most links should still work.

[Hax]

I can really recommend my hometown Amersfoort, it's cozy, beautiful, and absolutely packed with great restaurants.

Yes. Just yes. I love the place, too.

[Ser Clegane]

Thanks a lot for all the responses, guys - this is very helpful and highly appreciated

My wife and I will go through the information and I am sure there will be some further questions

Generally we like to just stroll through cities with historical city centers/buildings (look at churches, visit a museum etc.) and Belgium and the Nerherlands seem perfect for that. Nice landscapes are also always welcome, but they are not our priority for this trip (unless there is something of particular interest like the Grottes).

We will indeed go by car, but will consider to take hotels outside the inner city in some cases and then rather go in with public transportation.

[Hosakawa Tito]

I couldn't imagine going to Belgium on holiday and not finding a Beer Festival.

[the red knight]

Generally we like to just stroll through cities with historical city centers/buildings (look at churches, visit a museum etc.) and Belgium and the Nerherlands seem perfect for that. Nice landscapes are also always welcome, but they are not our priority for this trip (unless there is something of particular interest like the Grottes).

Nobody mentioned Maastricht yet?

Maastricht beats every other Dutch city with ease when it comes to historical buildings. Plus we've got the best bookshop in the world.

[Peasant Phill]

If you like historical cities than I can really recommend Ypres, Bruges and perhaps Leuven.

Amerfoort was also excelent (as per fragonies advice).

[Fragony]

Nobody mentioned Maastricht yet?

Maastricht beats every other Dutch city with ease when it comes to historical buildings. Plus we've got the best bookshop in the world.

He said Netherlands and Belgium, Limbabwe doesn't count ;)

But yeah Maastricht is great

[Ser Clegane]

Thanks a lot again for the ideas and recommendations

We will be heading for Belgium on Thursday and decided on our itinerary:

- Grottes de Han
- Leuven
- Ghent
- Bruges
- Brussels
- Antwerp
(for Brussels and Antwerp we will actually stay in Mechelen and use the train to get around - thanks for the links, Andres
- Kinderdijk
- Leiden
- Haarlem
- Utrecht (and probably Amersfoort as we will stay in Zeist for three days to cover Utrecht)
- Maastricht

I hope the weather stays as nice as it currently looks

[Fragony]

Utrecht bleh, no atmosphere, only a few terraces and hardly anything proper to eat, Amersfoort is much nicer. One of the best preserved medieval centres in the world, nice and quiet, pure tranquillity on a nice weather day.

[Ser Clegane]

Hehe - Utrecht is a "must-go" for us since my wife spent two months there during here PHD time (so we will definitely have our appelbollen at Graaf Floris for the sake of good old times ). As we have two full days chances are that we spend one day in Untrecht and have a trip to Amersfoort on the other day - at least that would be my preference.

[Fragony]

If you insist on visiting that soulless hellhole at least get the greatest sandwich in human history at Mario's, don't kiss your wife afterwards these guys really like garlic it might ruin your holiday. Going there will ruin your holiday in the first place.

Haarlem is a good choice though, very relaxed town, red light district is the most beautiful part don't feel bad about going there it's perfectly bourgois. Frans Hals museum is a must. So is Teylers, even the museum is a museum on it's own, there is no electricity.

Also visit Kampen and Den Briel, doesn't get anymore authentic when it comes to I'm in Dutchland yay. Boring as and don't let them burn you bring mirrors and beads for the natives

[Moros]

Have a great time!

[Peasant Phill]

That's a nice round-up of places to visit.

Just one remark, If you want to go shopping in the Netherlands on a sunday expext to do only window shopping.

[Fragony]

Making sunday the best day for a visit withwife-technically speaking, all the bars and restaurants are open. If you stay in Zeist don't forget to violate Hax's property a stone through a window will do, and spend at least an afternoon cycling around, the surroundings are quite beautiful, lots of woods, old manors and farms.

[Hax]

If you stay in Zeist don't forget to violate Hax's property a stone through a window will do, and spend at least an afternoon cycling around, the surroundings are quite beautiful, lots of woods, old manors and farms.

Zeist? Zeist?!

I hail from Driebergen-Rijsenburg the glorious capital of the Utrechtse Heuvelrug.

[Moros]

Zeist? Zeist?!

I hail from Driebergen-Rijsenburg the glorious capital of the Utrechtse Heuvelrug.

Well there goes your window. Fragony outsmarted you it seems.