Roman Polanski- No Justice Needed

[TinCow]

And if I understand TinCow correctly, then the US justice system allowed him to buy himself out of prison with a lot of money, giving him enough time to flee. Does the system treat all very dangerous, child raping scumbags like that?
Could he have fled without being rich/having rich friends?

Uh... the concept of Bail is pretty much universal in most modern nations. Germany uses it as well, so I'm confused by your surprise at the concept.

The basic idea is that incarcerating people is expensive. Since the accused is innocent until proven guilty, it is usually deemed acceptable to release them from prison (and thus free up prison space) until their trial. However, we of course do not want people to run away. So, depending on the circumstances of each individual case, the accused can be allowed to pay a certain amount of money to guarantee that they show up in court for their trial. The more serious the crime and the more likely a person is to flee, the greater the cost. People who are considered likely to run away will be denied bail altogether. If the person runs away, the money is forfeit until they re-appear. That is where bounty hunters fit in. They work for Bail Bondsmen, who employ them to go and catch people who have fled and thus forfeited the bail bondsman's money.

In the case of Polanski, he was not considered a flight risk. Who in their right mind would have expected a successful and famous Hollywood director to flee the United States and never come back for the next 33 years? It didn't seem likely at all, and the sheer spectacle of it is proven by the infamy that surrounds this case.

[Don Corleone]

Hi everyone,
Sorry, going to have to be brief, before one of the kids wakes up.

First, didn't mean to ruffle so many feathers. Didn't try to avoid it either, but it wasn't my intent to offend, just highlight facts.

Sure, the USA has done a lot of despicable things. As Andres pointed out, two wrongs don't make a right. If your only moral standard is "a CIA phoenix team has done worse and nobody has prosecuted them yet...", you're going to crawl through a sewer, on your belly.... Not trying to defend everything we've ever done.

I wasn't trying to fling pooh at the Swiss, I was trying to highlight a reality. Quite frankly, and my apologies to any Swiss here... they appear to my humble eye to have a national character of 'Anything for a buck'. I've been to Switzerland several times, its a lovely place and on a personal level, the people are quite affable and pleasant. Great engineers, great bankers, great education... yaddah yaddah.

But what has Switzerland ever stood for? Anything goes... they take anybody's money, raised any which way, no questions asked.

When the CIA does things like sell heroin to fund an illegal war, do you think they put their money in American banks? Nope. Not a legacy I'd want to be attached to.

By the way, sorry I touched a nerve Husar. Good to see you old friend. Hopefully I'll find a thread where I won't be peeing in your Cheerios and we can catch up there.

[Husar]

Uh... the concept of Bail is pretty much universal in most modern nations. Germany uses it as well, so I'm confused by your surprise at the concept.

I'm surprised that he was allowed to post bail if he is such a disgusting person, he could have raped another girl thinking he'd end up in prison for a long time anyway.

[Andres]

I'm surprised that he was allowed to post bail if he is such a disgusting person, he could have raped another girl thinking he'd end up in prison for a long time anyway.

I think you're being very unfair now. At the time, there was no indication whatsoever that Polanski would flee the country to escape sentence. It was a perfectly reasonable decision.

Regardless, it doesn't take away the facts that a) according to the bilateral treaty between the US and Switerland, Switzerland is obliged to extradite Polanski; their reasons for refusing it are very poor excuses; b) Polanski is a child rapist for 's sake. Give me one good reason to protect that kind of scum. Read the quote in post #56 first.

[Beskar]

Roman Polanski is a paedophile.

[rory_20_uk]

I don't think he is - after all he's... had a vast army of women. He's a rake who isn't that concerned with matters such as the age of consent, probably only the onset of puberty.

[Husar]

I think you're being very unfair now. At the time, there was no indication whatsoever that Polanski would flee the country to escape sentence. It was a perfectly reasonable decision.

Regardless, it doesn't take away the facts that a) according to the bilateral treaty between the US and Switerland, Switzerland is obliged to extradite Polanski; their reasons for refusing it are very poor excuses; b) Polanski is a child rapist for 's sake. Give me one good reason to protect that kind of scum. Read the quote in post #56 first.

When it's a swiss judge letting him go free, he's a child-raping scumbag, when it's a US judge letting him go for a few days on a bailout, there was no reason to believe he could do anything against the law?
Jörg Kachelmann for example has been charged with raping his girlfriend, he has been in custody for like three months now and hasn't been let go because he is still under suspicion to have committed a serious crime. I just think that if an alleged crime has a certain severity, it makes little sense to let someone go on a bailout, especially if they can easily afford it.

[TinCow]

When it's a swiss judge letting him go free, he's a child-raping scumbag, when it's a US judge letting him go for a few days on a bailout, there was no reason to believe he could do anything against the law?
Jörg Kachelmann for example has been charged with raping his girlfriend, he has been in custody for like three months now and hasn't been let go because he is still under suspicion to have committed a serious crime. I just think that if an alleged crime has a certain severity, it makes little sense to let someone go on a bailout, especially if they can easily afford it.

It was part of the plea agreement. Polanksi agreed to plead guilty to the crime and undergo a 90 day psych evaluation in a state facility. In return, all but one of the charges agains him were dropped. As part of the plea agreement, his evaluation was delayed so that he could remain free and finishing working on a project he was in the middle of. He went to Germany, finished the project, then returned to the US to undergo his psych evaluation. After 42 days, he was released because the psych evaluation was felt to be completed and further jail time was not recommended by the psychiatrist. That is the point at which he fled.

Under these circumstances, there was really no expectation on anyone's part that he would run away. He had already pled guilty, gone to Europe, and come back to serve his psych evaluation period without any problems whatsoever. He was world famous and his entire career was centered in Hollywood. As far as I am concerned, he was about as low a flight risk as anyone there has ever been. The system of bail generally works. The simple fact that Polanski unexpectedly fled and has successfully evaded capture for 33 years does not change the facts as they were when he was released. Polanski was simply not considered a flight risk. Saying otherwise is arguing with hindsight.

[Don Corleone]

I don't know how the bail system works in Germany, so I cannot say what the comparison should be. But in the U.S. legal system, there is a fundamental concept called "presumption of innocence". In other words, until the State can actually prove that you're guilty, you're not. It's almost as though at the moment you're found guilty, by a jury or by a judge, you're almost imbued with the 'guilt', even though you may have committed the crime itself several months or years earlier. Because of this presumption, people that are awaiting a verdict (either a trial or entering a plea-agreement) are still expected to be treated as innocent, and therefore, is allowed to remain free until the 'magic moment'.

Now, we're not idiots, and many folks awaiting a verdict flee. So we require you to post a guarantee, conmensurate with the severity of your crime and how likely you are to flee. It was in this limbo that Polanski found himself when he fled the country. He was going to enter a plea, believing that he we would be released on "time served", he had already been incarcerated for the duration of the sentance, or the rest would be probated.

However, once he fled, any expectation of bail and freedom while expecting sentancing evaporated. Another fundamental legal principle in the US is that the court, any court, can order anybody, anywhere, anytime to appear before it. Failure to do so is an immediate crime. You will be immediately incarcerated and you can be kept incarcerated until the whim of the judge shifts to allow you out. It was this principle at work that compelled our former President, William Jefferson Clinton, to give a deposition on creative uses for cigars and stain-removal tips for blue-dresses.

What I'm getting at is our courts didn't have the right to keep Polanski under lock-and-key until he plead guilty and received a sentance or he fled the jurisdiction. He did the second before the first could be done. It doesn't sound as though things work the same in Germany.

When it's a swiss judge letting him go free, he's a child-raping scumbag, when it's a US judge letting him go for a few days on a bailout, there was no reason to believe he could do anything against the law?
Jörg Kachelmann for example has been charged with raping his girlfriend, he has been in custody for like three months now and hasn't been let go because he is still under suspicion to have committed a serious crime. I just think that if an alleged crime has a certain severity, it makes little sense to let someone go on a bailout, especially if they can easily afford it.

[Hosakawa Tito]

When it's a swiss judge letting him go free, he's a child-raping scumbag, when it's a US judge letting him go for a few days on a bailout, there was no reason to believe he could do anything against the law he's still a baby raping scumbag!

Fixed it for ya. He got a sweetheart plea deal, 90 days in a psychiatric hospital of which he only served 42 days, for child molestation, all other charges promised to be dropped. That's a travesty in it's own right, and he knew it. So instead of facing the music at sentencing *because hey, maybe somebody might bring that travesty of justice thing up* the baby raping bail jumping coward fled, and has been looking over his shoulder ever since. I hope every time the doorbell or phone rings, when he suddenly sees a cop or hears a siren, he breaks out in a bit of a cold sweat and his sphincter tightens up. Roman, be sure that your sins will find you out.