The Dutch Elections 2010

[rvg]

Long Live the Republic!

[Fragony]

Long Live the Republic!

God save the queen nobody else is going to do it. Looks like she seriously overplayed her hand. The coalition that pleases her majesty has failed, two choices for her, new elections where Wilders will become the biggest party, or just about the whole parlement in a coalition against him, and then everything will be swept away the next one. People are seriously angry. And yeah my fellow Dutchie orgahs I know you aren't, but one out of 3 is considering voting Wilders now.

edit hotdamn that royal shellslut does it again

[Skullheadhq]

Why is the PVV even called the Freedom Party, it very much wants to restrict all forms of freedom (drugs, freedom of conscience etc.).
Anyway, no party wants to form a coalition with the PVV, they do not have any competent candidates for ministers except Wilders. Wilders is the only member of his party and all the PVV members of parliament are just yes-sheep with no own opinion, which Wilders made sure of, recalling the LPF disaster of 8 years earlier. Then Wilders' economic policies are more left than the Labour's, and Labour couldn't even agree with the liberals, what makes you think Wilders can.

If a right-wing cabinet happens (which is unlikely), Wilders will betray all of his voters by dumping his economic and social policies and just go on muslim-hunt, which the Christian-Democrats wouldn't want.
I still hope for a SP-GL(/D'66)-PvdA-CDA cabinet, in which the SP will do the Ministry of Defense.

Also Frag, just stop crying, the queen isn't left. The first informer was a right-wing liberal, the second was a very moderate social-democrat and the third is a christian-democrat (who is still being prosecuted because he slapped a lady on the butt years ago). The queen doesn't stop your right-wing cabinet from happening, the Christian-Democrats and Wilders to a certain degree does.

[Fragony]

lol@muslimhunt boy do they got you, that would cost him a considerable amount of his voters, the secular muslims who know exactly what he's talking about, and didn't come here to find it here as well.

PVV is anti establishment, bilderbea and her loyal lapdogs are the establishment. Simple as that. Can't win this, but by all means keep trying, when you are slowly sinking into a swamp it's best to not move too much, good luck not getting that.

[Skullheadhq]

lol@muslimhunt boy do they got you, that would cost him a considerable amount of his voters, the secular muslims who know exactly what he's talking about, and didn't come here to find it here as well.

I didn't mean it literally, like the lynchings in the South of the US. What will be left of his policies when he drops his social and economic policies? Exactly, the part where he hates on (radical) muslims and 'the Morrocan/Turkish/ youth' will make him a single-issue party. Even if he would want to remove or curtail the queen, there would still be a pro-monarchy CDA which would never allow it. And even if the CDA would turn anti-monarchy overnight, he would still need 66% percent of the parliament to remove the part that says you can't remove the queen, then he would need a referendum which will most likely fail since most dutch are pro-monarchy, and even if that magically succeeds the queen could dissolve parliament with all consequenses. I believe that scenario happened more than once in history, with not-so-nice consequences.

And btw, what's with all those right-wing nuts who keep saying Netherlands will be ruined and that the Netherlands is sick, we're still in the top 10 of best countries to live in and the top 10 of the most democratic country etc etc. The mass-immigration which is 'destroying the Netherlands' amounts to 8150 immigrants each year, which is 0.05% of the population. The argument that the Netherlands is full is moot as well, since more people leave than come in.

[Fragony]

Nothing is going to happen whatever promise he breaks, he's our crowbar. Fortuyn was 10 times the man Wilders will ever be, but it's what we got and it will have to do.

On the muslim stuff he pretty much nails it here (sorry in Dutch).

http://www.nrc.nl/opinie/article2584468.ece

[Skullheadhq]

I hope Wilders will somehow get in the government, that's the quickest way to get rid of him. I don't bother, I don't own a car so I won't be hit with an oil embargo.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The mass-immigration which is 'destroying the Netherlands' amounts to 8150 immigrants each year, which is 0.05% of the population. The argument that the Netherlands is full is moot as well, since more people leave than come in.

I'm afraid this is incorrect. In all European countries, there is a tendency to downplay immigration numbers, to work the stats. 'We are talking really small numbers anyway, a handful, why are you persecuting them'. Yet anybody who has ever visited an old age home and a kindergarten in Western Europe can see the enormity of the demographic change that's sweeping over Western Europe.
The Netherlands, the most densely populated country in the Western world, has massive immigration. Astonishingly, the Netherlands has an annual immigration larger than Australia, which is the size of the whole of Europe and which runs a deliberate mass immigration policy. Because of the recession, Australia has reduced its immigration target to 115000.

The Netherlands: not 8150 immigrants, but 146.378. Or, twenty times as much as you've been led to believe. Or 1% of the population, per year.

The Netherlands has these immigration numbers not because the population wants it, or as the result of a carefully deliberated policy to attract immigrants to develop the country, but simply because anybody who raises quastions about is deemed a fascist. Call it lingering trauma of the war. (Which incidentally also has the result that it is mostly fascists who object)

Net immigration is 61021. These numbers don't tell the whole story. A fair bit of that one percent are simply Dutch people migrating to and fro Belgium or Germany. Net immigration from non-developed countries is 32670. I would assume that there is a net emigration of native Dutch, especially the highly educated. Whereas for migration to and fro developing countries, this is reversed, with an emphasis on highly educated people remigrating, and lower educated staying. In the current climate, an educated Muslim does not feel at home anymore in the current hostile situation, whereas the uneducated realise the Dutch welfare state will still be preferable to life back home. The third world is rapidly developing, the difference with the West for a great many places is not in living standard, but in income inequality. The upper middle class, the top 15%, in Brazil or the Phillipines enjoy a living standard rivalled only by the very wealthiest in Western Europe. This is a major concern for all West European welfare states: there is a large emigration of the educated, and a large immigration of the uneducated, both natives and non-natives. Combine it with crumbling solidarity, and here is Fragony's revenge: Europe's migration policy will destroy social-democracy. (Which is a shame, because social-democracy is the most civilised society the world has ever produced.)

http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/publi...DR=T&STB=G5,G1




For fun / exaspiration, Australia's immigration policy.
The Ozzies work out how many of which skills they need, and then simply set a quota. 'The list will now comprise mainly health and medical, engineering and IT professions': http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/medi...09/ce09030.htm.

[Tellos Athenaios]

@Louis: A note of sanity, at last! But also look at how much those numbers vary. That net immigration of 60K in 2009 versus one of 10K in 2006.
As far as migration of educated Dutch people goes, a sort of popular “destination” is Norway/Sweden both actively advertise work & life in those countries. Increasingly China and India try and attract students, too.

[Skullheadhq]

Isn't Australia the country where they burned some Asian students alive not too long ago? Not really the ideal place for immigrants to go.