Star Fox- Lylat Wars [Concluded]

[Beskar]

Well, there is one protection and two were attacked? Perhaps they were trying to get a confirmed kill? (either a or b dies)

Even then, why weren't either of them protected by their protector?

[Chaotix]

Well, there is one protection and two were attacked? Perhaps they were trying to get a confirmed kill? (either a or b dies)

Even then, why weren't either of them protected by their protector?

Forget about Peppy. You're avoiding the main accusation here.

You haven't just been lucky to keep your team from being killed, and protection doesn't cover it. 1 protector does not cover a 5-man team!

It is incredibly unlikely that Andross, with his more-or-less random kills, has managed not even once to attack one of your teammates, while at the same time having killed at least 2 of Team Star Fox plus Krystal using solely guesswork.

And on top of that, if I looked a little deeper into this thread, I could probably tell you who your teammates are by the fact that they follow you like sheep. Secura is one that comes to mind. It's plainly obvious she's part of Star Wolf. So if I can guess them, it wouldn't be that hard for Andross (who I'm sure is paying more attention than me) to do the same! And if he can figure out who your team is, why hasn't he started killing them like he did for Star Fox?

Bottom line is, Andross must know who your team is and is deliberately avoiding attacking the entire team. And unless you can give me a reason why he would leave 5 undefended power roles living for this long, the only logical answer is that the two of you have struck a deal.

[Double A]

Forget about Peppy. You're avoiding the main accusation here.

You haven't just been lucky to keep your team from being killed, and protection doesn't cover it. 1 protector does not cover a 5-man team!

It is incredibly unlikely that Andross, with his more-or-less random kills, has managed not even once to attack one of your teammates, while at the same time having killed at least 2 of Team Star Fox plus Krystal using solely guesswork.

And on top of that, if I looked a little deeper into this thread, I could probably tell you who your teammates are by the fact that they follow you like sheep. Secura is one that comes to mind. It's plainly obvious she's part of Star Wolf. So if I can guess them, it wouldn't be that hard for Andross (who I'm sure is paying more attention than me) to do the same!

Bottom line is, Andross must know who your team is and is deliberately avoiding attacking the entire team. And unless you can give me a reason why he would leave 5 undefended power roles living for this long, the only logical answer is that the two of you have struck a deal.

The only reason I can think of is he's trying to frame them, and that's not a particularly good reason.

[Romanic]

Who would be the 5th member of the Star Wolf team? I'm counting 4 of them: Wolf, Panther, Leon and Andrew.

[Chaotix]

Who would be the 5th member of the Star Wolf team? I'm counting 4 of them: Wolf, Panther, Leon and Andrew.

Pigma. He's been in the write-ups, he must have been recruited by them.

[Double A]

Pigma. He's been in the write-ups, he must have been recruited by them.

I was in a write-up(s) between when I revealed and when I was recriuted.

[Chaotix]

The only reason I can think of is he's trying to frame them, and that's not a particularly good reason.

Exactly. If you want to frame someone, you do it when it's only one or maybe two.
You don't frame a whole team of power roles because the end result is that you let them investigate the entire town and reveal their true identity.

And look, Beskar has basically investigated the entire town, save for me and and a few others for some reason. And look, we haven't found any mafia since before Falco and ROB died. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

[Renata]

The only reason I can think of is he's trying to frame them, and that's not a particularly good reason.

It's not a bad one -- absent a Star Wolf/Andross alliance, Andross' best strategy is to go after as many of the town's power roles as he can get to first, and only then go after the neutral ones, just in case the town suspects exactly what we do suspect in the meantime. My own death is the only exception to the pattern in the last several days, and before that it was still too early to draw any firm conclusions.

That's why I think Beskar and Co should get just a little bit more leeway. They will start finding Andross' allies with all their power roles, or Andross will get scared enough of them to start killing them now that no Star Fox members are on the table. If neither happens soonish -- well I hate to say it Star Wolf, but you will have brought it on yourself by not pushing any mafia lynches since you outed Pinman. Neutral roles have to expect to be held to a "what have you done for us lately" standard. Maybe Pinman made you an offer you couldn't refuse. How can we know?

[Nightbringer]

Maybe Andross saw Star Fox as a bigger threat and has focused on getting rid of him. or maybe andross thinks that star wolf will have an objective change that places them on the same side. all i know is that the venomian objective is still to defeat the big bad. with that in consideration, i am going to follow the best leader we have (Beskar) and vote:wideeyedwanderer

[Beskar]

I was going to go with Romanic on pevergreen. But it appears that people want to lynch an investigator than make any real attempts against the mafia.

[Secura]

I could probably tell you who your teammates are by the fact that they follow you like sheep. Secura is one that comes to mind. It's plainly obvious she's part of Star Wolf.

This is just plain rude; I have a playstyle of my own that, in just as many cases as it does not, proves to be better than Beskar's, and my votes have only correlated with Beskar's when there has been a genuine person that I've suspected.

I don't need to follow anyone like a sheep, and it's an unusual statement to come from one who keeps bleating anti-Beskar sentiment without thought for the ramifications that lynching him will have; have you not considered the alternative for why he's been kept alive?

You're chewing strips off him and that's exactly what the mafia wants; they don't need to kill Star Wolf when you're pushing for their lynches. I would urge anyone who is neutral in alignment, like Star Wolf, to ignore these inane ramblings and focus on finding the mafia.

And unless you can give me a reason why he would leave 5 undefended power roles living for this long, the only logical answer is that the two of you have struck a deal.

How is it possible that Star Wolf and the Big Bad could have struck together a deal when private communication is forbidden? Even if such a deal had been struck at some point, it's hard to maintain something like that when you're not allowed to contact anyone.


As for my vote, I'm divided between three people currently and will re-evaluate after I've returned from work this evening and there's more to read.

[Beskar]

You missed the other ramification that lynching me will send Star Wolf team under-ground, because they won't assist the town in anyway, due to fear of getting lynched by people who are rabid about removing me on no grounds or basis what-so-ever.

Because of that, the list of innocents will also disappear, and the town will go around lynching eachother, while the mafia are laughing their heads off.

That is what happens when you try to eliminate pro-town mason group because of your own foolishness.

[naut]

Beskar has to go.

1) Basically the entire Star Fox team is dead
2) The last couple rounds he's spoke of his list of innocent players, BUT
3) He continuosly pointed us towards innocents as his "unknowns"

Basically he's full of

Vote: Beskar

[naut]

You missed the other ramification that lynching me will send Star Wolf team under-ground, because they won't assist the town in anyway

What do you expect when you and your team has been no help what-so-ever? You haven't been assisting us, so your claim is a crock, whatever happens you aren't helpful.

people who are rabid about removing me on no grounds or basis what-so-ever.

No basis? Hah! You lot said you are helping, but it's quite obvious that you have just been a distraction.

[Beskar]

Beskar has to go.

1) Basically the entire Star Fox team is dead
2) The last couple rounds he's spoke of his list of innocent players, BUT
3) He continuosly pointed us towards innocents as his "unknowns"

Basically he's full of

What do you expect when you and your team has been no help what-so-ever? You haven't been assisting us, so your claim is a crock, whatever happens you aren't helpful.


No basis? Hah! You lot said you are helping, but it's quite obvious that you have just been a distraction.

Actually, you are full of crock.

Why would I point the town towards innocents? Of course I am going to point the town towards unknowns.

So I am not going to sit there going "I just got the result Psychonaut is Cornerian, I know, lets advise to lynch him because that is surely the cleverest option.", I have said all along that they are acceptable choices and unknowns and if anyone has a better choice outside of selecting a known townie, then surely go ahead.

So don't outright lie and make stuff up.

I have stopped the town outright lynching known innocents, just like yourself. What a fool. I been far more helpful than the Star Fox team, what lynch did they approve for the town? Beefy's. My choices netted us one mafia and narrowed down the suspects a lot almost to the point we can have the mafia gone within a few rounds guaranteed and you are about to throw that away.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Vote: pevergreen on Romanic's suggestion

[civplayah]

This is ridiculous! Beskar is not working with Andross or the Big Bad. I'll do this just to save Beskar-

vote: pevergreen

[pevergreen]

Beskar has to go.

1) Basically the entire Star Fox team is dead
2) The last couple rounds he's spoke of his list of innocent players, BUT
3) He continuosly pointed us towards innocents as his "unknowns"

Basically he's full of

Vote: Beskar

One of the only times I will agree with you.

This is ridiculous! Beskar is not working with Andross or the Big Bad. I'll do this just to save Beskar-

vote: pevergreen

But General Pepper said I could celebrate.

[autolycus]

Wolf O'Donnell, you've caused trouble in our neck of the woods for too long.
Vote:Beskar

[Renata]

How is it possible that Star Wolf and the Big Bad could have struck together a deal when private communication is forbidden? Even if such a deal had been struck at some point, it's hard to maintain something like that when you're not allowed to contact anyone.

It wasn't forbidden at the time that Pinman was outed, and he DID claim his role in public, as did Beskar. That would free them to speak openly, if they wished to. This is not a good argument.

I feel like I'm going all anti-Beskar here, so I want to disclaim: I STRONGLY oppose Beskar's lynch today. What the heck happened to Nightbringer as an option? Have to go read.

[Chaotix]

This is just plain rude; I have a playstyle of my own that, in just as many cases as it does not, proves to be better than Beskar's, and my votes have only correlated with Beskar's when there has been a genuine person that I've suspected.

I don't need to follow anyone like a sheep, and it's an unusual statement to come from one who keeps bleating anti-Beskar sentiment without thought for the ramifications that lynching him will have; have you not considered the alternative for why he's been kept alive?

You're chewing strips off him and that's exactly what the mafia wants; they don't need to kill Star Wolf when you're pushing for their lynches. I would urge anyone who is neutral in alignment, like Star Wolf, to ignore these inane ramblings and focus on finding the mafia.



How is it possible that Star Wolf and the Big Bad could have struck together a deal when private communication is forbidden? Even if such a deal had been struck at some point, it's hard to maintain something like that when you're not allowed to contact anyone.


As for my vote, I'm divided between three people currently and will re-evaluate after I've returned from work this evening and there's more to read.

I know this post was a while ago, but I don't want to leave it unanswered.

If I offended you, then you have my apologies.

I did not mean to imply that simply following Beskar's orders was the extent to which you're playing the game. Obviously you have a distinct playstyle. However, you are more often than not on Beskar's side of the argument- you strengthen the arguments he makes with your own points, and you defend him when he's not around to do it himself.

However, dear, the admission by non-denial is rather telling. My guess was correct all the same, no?

To refute the arguments you made in this post:

-Again, if Star Wolf were actually looking for Andross they would have found him by now.
-Andross would not leave a team of five power roles alive just because I'm pushing for Beskar's lynch; and again, virtually nobody has been pushing for his lynch until last round or so.
-I assume Team Star Wolf has a means of communicating amongst themselves privately. I see no reason why a similar means could not be used to link Andross and Wolf together, especially if they are allied.

Oh, and I've been looking around the thread for more of the telltale signs of Team Star Wolf. Here's what I found:

Based on her voting patterns (i.e., look at the post above me) and her general support of Beskar, I'd venture an educated guess that Diana Abnoba is also part of Star Wolf.

[Secura]

However, dear, the admission by non-denial is rather telling. My guess was correct all the same, no?

So, if I denied it, you'd say that I was lying, and if I ignore it entirely, it makes it so anyway? o_O

Damned if you do, damned if you don't... that's not the best way to approach the game, in my opinion.

[Askthepizzaguy]

round ends in less than 4 hours.

Rather sleepy, so the update could be late; send in night actions immediately afterward. Writeup to follow when I wakeys.

[Death is yonder]

Right, I'll try and stay objective on this post, and retain some sense of probability that Beskar is actually still neutral despite his actions. (Because I'm going to propose giving him one night's grace)


Note: Fairly Strong Tone, but I feel it necessary to highlight that Beskar is not our ultimate savior or something. Read with a pinch of salt, this is my opinion, substantiated with some fact and interpretations.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Disclaimer: I don't know about you, but I was rather trusting in Beskar's open leadership until I reviewed all of this material which I sourced. Several important contradictions and "jedi mind tricks" are contained within here.

The bad news is, the Mafia are hiding within the lurkers, non-Orgahs and the replacements. While my last investigations have been searching within these areas, I keep hitting "n00bian defence force" "n00bian fighter". However, there is another problem with the list of lurkers/replacements/etc which haven't been investigated. Both Fox and Peppy are on it as well. This means the Mafia might hit the list which would be helpful, however, it would spell the end of Star Fox/Peppy if we end up lynching one of them or them getting night killed.

Lo and behold, are you psychic or merely the orchestrator of the future?

So we have a choice. Either I reveal the list of those I don't know the identities of, perhaps giving away Fox and Peppy to the mafia, but inversely the list can be used by the mafia to lynch confirmed innocents.

Highly counterproductive by Beskar at this point. Oh look, you basically just said, "power roles are in the replacement list", and look where that got Starfox.

I would like to very strongly note here, that Beskar is not proactively helping us with aforementioned results. Instead, he keeps it to himself, and only uses it when one of his likely compatriots come under fire. Why so defensive? Why aren't you sharing this information to help us all?

And most importantly, what is this choice you speak off, I see only one option presented, the option that doesn't put your or your team in deep water.

Beskar: Contradictions, random nonsense I found

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In essence, the only single scrap of evidence that gives reason for us to trust Beskar is that he lynched Pinman, a known mafia. How many rounds was that ago? What developments have we seen till now? Lots of hot air about investigations on virtually everybody occurring.

Beskar says that he has investigated practically all orgahs, which leaves replacements, CFCs and newcomers. Why does Beskar assume that all targets of note reside within the orgah community?

Placing a relatively large database of people to individually question? Furthermore, what you propose is that hordes of power roles lie within that segment, since you say that all you've been hitting is "n00bian cornelians" etc?

Beskar suggest a highly improbable thing here, that by some probability that likely exceeds 1 in a million, every single orgah in this game is a n00bian character, leaving only CFC's, replacements and various others.

Star Fox killed you, not me.

And where did your supposedly "extensive" information network that included every non-replacement orgah come in?

I will quote it again for special effects and all:

Mafia are hiding within the lurkers, non-Orgahs and the replacements

Then why did you let Beefy just stroll to his doom????

If still unsure about rational behind the hidden agenda thinking, open below spoiler

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Chain of Events IIRC:

Beskar says that he has investigated practically all orgahs, which leaves replacements, CFCs and newcomers. Why does Beskar assume that all targets of note reside within the orgah community?

Why?

He claims to have the information.

Beefy is a very well known orgah in the gameroom

Beefy waltzed to his lynch with Beskar keeping quiet, despite supposedly having information

Beefy was lynched and Beskar goes: What to do, were just following Starfox, its all their fault, etc etc. "Obviously Starfox messed up bigtime" and you get the general idea.

I don't know about you, but this screams hidden agenda, hidden motives, ulterior victory conditions.

You missed the other ramification that lynching me will send Star Wolf team under-ground, because they won't assist the town in anyway, due to fear of getting lynched by people who are rabid about removing me on no grounds or basis what-so-ever.

Because of that, the list of innocents will also disappear, and the town will go around lynching eachother, while the mafia are laughing their heads off.

That is what happens when you try to eliminate pro-town mason group because of your own foolishness.

Yet another contradiction in Beskar's list of psychological tricks. Then again, I'm not surprised, considering your background.

If you are lynched, and truly who you are, why would lynching you send the team underground?

Understandably they will continue underground rather than being sent underground because their public mouthpiece has been lynched.

But your choice of words is that:

because they won't assist the town in anyway, due to fear of getting lynched by people who are rabid about removing me on no grounds or basis what-so-ever.

At this point, I will like to interject if its not clear, that I am not accusing Beskar of falsely claiming Starwolf. I am accusing him of carrying a hidden agenda, possibly revenge against Starfox, to backstab him, and at very worse, resorting to consorting with Andross (temporarily) to unite against a common enemy: Fox.

Wouldn't this be highly ironic because it sounds just like the motivation for Wolf to ally temporarily with Fox? Just saying on an unrelated note (the latter).

I understand that some of you may have some doubts about what I'm saying at this point, so I'll simply direct you to keep reading.

Yes, because the best idea is to lose more pro-town roles by trying to lynch more.

When the truth of the matter is, I saved over 5 known townies Known townies? Yet where's this list, wheres all the substantiation to support all this? You must understand Beskar, you are a neutral person who has a history of being against Starfox, I wouldn't be surprised if you had a hidden agenda behind all this from being lynched randomly by the town and I alright out admitted to who I "haven't got a clue" on. So if you want to lynch more innocents for whatever reason then you definitely shouldn't be a town leader of any sort.

As I said, the mafia is hiding in a lurking in-active "CFC'er" or one of these replacements: Chaotix, Death is Yonder, pevergreen, Shlin28. The town can choose which one of the lurking CFC'ers or Replacements to lynch. If I already got a result on them, I will say.

This way, it is still potluck whether or not we get the mafia, but we still don't lynch more known townies.

On a lighter note: (Less firm, because I'm not advocating a direct lynch of Beskar, just feeling the need to remind people of several things before blindly trusting him)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The mafia can just get the town to lynch me, and thereby turning the town against the Star Wolf team and the Star Wolf team won't work with the town, because the town would just lynch them waton.

On the otherhand, Star Fox team has immunity from lynching, because of their name.

So killing off Star Fox makes Star Wolf look scummy, and turns the town against Star Wolf. Pretty simple and effective plan. Look at this phase, it is proof that it is working for them.

Confused --> So now you say that Starfox has immunity from lynching because of their name? Evidently because they are definitely pro-town Beskar

You are a neutral individual, and what I find extremely odd is that now you've taken to referring yourself as a pro-town role. The key idea of "neutrality" is that in this case you are neither here nor there. Referring to yourself as a pro-town role who is extremely critical to town efforts is incorrect IMO, I'm not seeing the need to constantly remind people on big speakers everywhere as if lynching you would lose the game for everyone but the mafia.

People seem to forget the limited Mafia kills and the fact Star Fox all revealed themselves publicly.... So the reason Star Fox died is because of their own doing, mainly.

Arguably so, but your team has defied all odds to come through without a single scratch on existing members as pointed out by the dead Starfox members

Conclusion: Would just like to remind everyone, that despite his continual proclamations of himself as a pro-town individual, whose removal would epicly cripple anti-mafia efforts, Beskar is a neutral person. Additionally, his tone has gradually changed since the Pinman incident. There, he explicitly claimed neutral and acted thusly so. Now? He's elevated himself to pro-town.

Vote: pevergreen

~For activity, and since this lynch is not going to be prevented

[Renata]

Forget about Peppy. You're avoiding the main accusation here.

You haven't just been lucky to keep your team from being killed, and protection doesn't cover it. 1 protector does not cover a 5-man team!

It is incredibly unlikely that Andross, with his more-or-less random kills, has managed not even once to attack one of your teammates, while at the same time having killed at least 2 of Team Star Fox plus Krystal using solely guesswork.

This is just false, Chaotix. Andross' kills have been anything but random for at least four nights running. Three outed Star Fox members and me. It's even plausible that Andross thought he might be killing a Star Wolf member when he attacked me, what with Beskar's "wink wink nudge nudge I know you're a cornerian" business -- though more likely I was just killed because I was obvious town.

[Renata]

I guess I would be voting pevergreen today, if I was still alive.

[Beskar]

This is just false, Chaotix. Andross' kills have been anything but random for at least four nights running. Three outed Star Fox members and me.

People seem to forget the limited Mafia kills and the fact Star Fox all revealed themselves publicly.... So the reason Star Fox died is because of their own doing, mainly.

I guess I would be voting pevergreen today, if I was still alive.

Falco (Romanic) said similar earlier, infact, Romanic's choice was pevergreen to be lynched, and Falco said NOT to lynch me. Deluded towns are mafia's best friend.

[Choxorn]

This is just false, Chaotix. Andross' kills have been anything but random for at least four nights running. Three outed Star Fox members and me. It's even plausible that Andross thought he might be killing a Star Wolf member when he attacked me, what with Beskar's "wink wink nudge nudge I know you're a cornerian" business -- though more likely I was just killed because I was obvious town.

Then why hasn't Beskar been killed, by either Andross or Question Marks? With ???'s kill patterns, there's no way he could still be a pro-town vigilante, there's no way a vigilante could justify killing me unless he's killing people at random. They're clearly both mafia, and if independent of Star Wolf, why have neither of them targeted even one Wolf member yet? Beskar's been a revealed power role since day 4, even if neutral, you just don't leave power roles alive that long.

[landlubber]

Vote:pevergreen

[Double A]

Maybe Andross saw Star Fox as a bigger threat and has focused on getting rid of him. or maybe andross thinks that star wolf will have an objective change that places them on the same side. all i know is that the venomian objective is still to defeat the big bad. with that in consideration, i am going to follow the best leader we have (Beskar) and vote:wideeyedwanderer

Let's see...

Beskar: Leader of a power role team, probably protected
Double A: scanner that can't detect mafia and part of a power role team, possibly protected.

If I were Andross, and Andross were me, Beskar would be dead a LONG time ago. Way before Slippy.