Oliver Stone: Holocaust Blown Way Out of Proportion by Jewish Dominated Media

[Fragony]

Meanwhile, naturally in Sweden http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138797 Because it's Sweden this is not a hatecrime but vandalism, a hatecrime is spitting out your chewing-gum near a mosk.

Maybe the ZIONIST MEDIA has a point milking the holocaust, if they do that never noticed it.

[Skullheadhq]

Maybe the ZIONIST MEDIA has a point milking the holocaust, if they do that never noticed it.

Oh, then you missed the 642335465 Holocaust movies they showed last night. It's all made to make us feel bad. Israel lives on pity, do you think we'd swallow all of Israel's **** without the holocaust?
How many movies have you seen about the British concentration camps in South Africa? The genocide of the Indians in South-America? The Dutch concentration camps in Indonesia? The Japanese concentration camps in Indonesia? The systematic gassing of Haitians by Napoleon? And the list goes on and on.

For example, the concentration camps of the British where they exterminated the females and children of the Boers had a significant impact on the Second Boer War, the Holocaust didn't have any impact on the result of WWII, and why do we see so much Holocaust movies instead of Boer Wars movies?

There are only two sorts of WWII movies: 642335465 Holocaust movies and 23345436 D-Day movies, this is sad, because WWII was more than that.

Oliver Stone is an idiot and a liberal nutcase.

X is Y so argument Z is invalid. How are these arguments called?

[Husar]

X is Y so argument Z is invalid. How are these arguments called?

If that's a valid question I'm going to try and prove I learned something on the .org:
I think it's "non sequitur" as in "does not follow" since you cannot logically say that Z is invalid just because Y applies.

This is an interesting topic, I find it hard to make a moral judgement on the Holocaust in comparison to the rest of WW2 because on one hand it wasn't a necessary slaughter, it was just born out of the lunacy of the ones who thought it up, as rory said they probably made a net loss, they just wanted to kill the jews because in their minds the jews had these and these bad traits and were controlling the world etc. On the other hand I don't think organized and industrialised killing is any worse in itself than slaughtering a lot of villagers with a mob of warriors or whatever, both are murder and both are horrible in their own way, some argue gas makes it worse, others could argue that being scalped or torn apart by a rusty blade isn't fun either, in the end I think you cannot say one is worse than the other.

And of course it was at the same time intertwined with WW2 and not, WW2 did not spawn the holocaust as the first concentration camps etc were being built shortly after Hitler came to power, on the other hand the war allowed for a great expansion of the holocaust because of the jews in the newly captured territories. Then there is the point of the war being necessary if Hitler really wanted to exterminate all jews, he'd have to conquer the world, I doubt the USA for example had handed him their jews to kill. But at that point we're arguing about the mind of a someone who had become an insane megalomaniac already.

That it was a major event for those who were in it is an important point, some of them are still alive to tell the story, it's hard to find someone who can give an account of the Mongol horde raping and pillaging in his village so the horror is lost, the same level of technology that allowed the nazis to kill so many jews in an industrial fashion also allowed them and others to keep very detailed records of it, I guess if we had video material of the events that inspired the Song of the Nibelungs, we wouldn't give it to our kids so they could make a school play out of it, I haven't seen a school play about the Iraq war or Kosovo either and most would probably call it very tasteless. that's the impact of history and technology, the video already changed the world before YouTube came along if you ask me, as they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words", and a video consists of thousands of pictures...well, that and it's recent history as I mentioned so I don't really see the surprise in the holocaust being more prominent than many other cruel events.

I also think WW2 dwarfs WW1 in public discussion, movie making, video games etc. even though WW1 was a very horrible, big war as well, but I haven't seen anyone complain about that.

[rory_20_uk]

Concentration camps pre-date WW2, but not extermination camps. I believe that initially the plan was to expel all Jews from Europe. WW2 rendered this impossible as well as allowing more extreme methods to be employed.

[Skullheadhq]

I also think WW2 dwarfs WW1 in public discussion, movie making, video games etc. even though WW1 was a very horrible, big war as well, but I haven't seen anyone complain about that.

WWI shooter.

Objective:
-Put on Gas Mask
-Shoot with artillery
-Surive for 2 months while doing nothing
-Mission COMPLETED!

Next Mission: September-December 1915...

I don't think a WWI shooter would be very succesful. There are some quality movies about WWI, but that's from Chaplin's time and IMHO WWI is much more interesting than WWII, only if the outcome of the war was not clear until the armistice. The war in the west was literally raging to the last minute with no clear victor.

But you make valid points. But I'd like to add that what Hitler is now Napoleon was in the 1800's and Genghis Khan in the 1400's and Atilla in the 500's.

[rvg]

But I'd like to add that what Hitler is now Napoleon was in the 1800's and Genghis Khan in the 1400's and Atilla in the 500's.

I couldn't disagree more. Napoleon, Genghiz Khan and Atilla were Warlords, and their conquests were very rational for a military point of view. Hitler was driven primarily by hate, thus his military strategy was irrational, even if he had some of the most brilliant tacticians at his disposal. Not to mention that he thought he knew how to wage a proper war, when he obviously had no clue.

[HoreTore]

But I'd like to add that what Hitler is now Napoleon was in the 1800's and Genghis Khan in the 1400's and Atilla in the 500's.

Say whaaaat? Napeleon was at the head of a revolution that led to the eventual downfall of every european hereditary dictator, and was spreading civil rights everywhere he went.

Or in order words, the exact opposite of Hitler.

[Skullheadhq]

Napeleon was at the head of a revolution that led to the eventual downfall of every european hereditary dictator.

Napeleon? Never heard of him? I think you meant Napoleon :D

led to the eventual downfall of every european hereditary dictator.

downfall of every european hereditary dictator.

Ah, that explains why he installed his family members as kings and queens (the heriditary dictator) everywhere (Holland, Italy etc.). And no, Napoleon defeated Austria in 4 (!) wars and yet the Habsburgers remained on the throne. Prussia was made a puppet, but yet the Hohenzollerns remained on the throne. He created the dutchy of Warsaw (Duke is a 'heriditary dictator'), so no.

And I never meant that he is the same in every way as Napoleon or Atilla. Just the part where people feared and hated his name for a century.

[Brenus]

“the French as resistance fighters, not as collaborators for example”: Would be true without “Lacombe Lucien” movie…

“Yeah but it wasn't just Germany it was everyone.” Every one organising convoys ending in extermination camps?

Sorry, but the Final Solution is a specificity of the Nazi in the methods and in the Ideology.
Then, the Holocaust was single out because it was completely ignored at the end of WW2. The deportees were even not first to be repatriated.
Even Ben Gourion who can’t be suspected of anti-Semitism, had problem in accepting the Holocaust as specific.

The importance of this unique process, the understanding of this “exception” came later because as many in this forum, people wanted just to see as a result of the war and not as a result of a policy.
Nuremberg had to invent the charge of Genocide. If Napoleon, Tamerlan, Gengis Khan, and all the Great Conquerors were “Genocidors”, it would have been very easy to charge and sentence the Nazi.

I would say the denying of the Eastern Countries suffering and slaughtered was more than the Extermination was exaggerated for political purposes mainly.
Even today: Shimon Peres, Israeli President, visiting Jasenovac, declared that the Nazi Germans pushed the Nazi Croats… Sorry but no. The cruelty of the Utase didn’t come because the Germans. It was there and didn’t need to be pushed…
Again, it is a try to push on Germany the guilt and, by the same token, to put the Eastern Countries on the good side as victims.

“It is a big deal, but it would be nice to get a more objective viewpoint of Hitler and the NSDAP than we tend to get.” Like what? New explanation for the Crystal night, Long knives night, brutality as political tool, racism (in full sense) as foundation of an ideology, extermination as goal?

“All the while the rest of Europe simply stood there, pretending it didn't know what was going on.” Err, they were at war if you remember…

“642335465 Holocaust movies” Didn’t notice there are so much of them… Just top of your head, give me ten, specifically on the Holocaust…

“The systematic gassing of Haitians by Napoleon” Can you give me links for that, for personal interest. Gassing before the industrial Revolution…

“they exterminated the females and children of the Boers had a significant impact on the Second Boer War” Nope. It was not a extermination, planned as in Sobibor or Birkenau but a plain lacking of hygienic principles and moral principal together…