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  1. #1
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default How long is too long to answer the door? 3 seconds?

    Don't bother getting up to answer the door when the police arrive, they will just let themselves in:
    Quote Originally Posted by CNN
    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A split Supreme Court ruled Thursday that drug evidence seized in a home search can be used against a suspect even though police failed to knock on the door and wait a "reasonable" amount of time before entering.

    The 5-4 decision continues a string of rulings since the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks that in general give law enforcement greater discretion to carry out search-and-seizure warrants.
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/15/sc...rch/index.html
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...061500730.html
    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...&invol=04-1360

    If the guys saying they don't need warrants to tap phones ever go out drinking with the Jack Booted Thugs, I think we can pretty much kiss the Bill of Rights goodbye.

    And yes, I do hate Freedom, but I don't know why.
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long is too long to answer the door? 3 seconds?

    Am I missing something?

    The police went in. They found drugs. I am assuming that they had a warrant for the search.

    Were you in favour that the suspect has enough time to get rid of the drugs, as else it's a violation of the druggies rights?

    You a defence lawyer?

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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long is too long to answer the door? 3 seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    The police went in. They found drugs. I am assuming that they had a warrant for the search.
    Yes, they had a warrant.
    Were you in favour that the suspect has enough time to get rid of the drugs, as else it's a violation of the druggies rights?
    The problem lies in the violation of the "knock and announce" rule of the 4th amendment. The state of Michigan concedes that a violation of this rule took place, yet this ruling states that a violation of this rule does not require the evidence to be supressed. What's the point of the rule then?
    You a defence lawyer?
    Um, hell no. And I'm sure Pindar or EA could shred my legal arguments while consuming vast quantities of crack. However, with a federal government already bypassing the warrant process, this ruling does not bode well for personal freedoms.
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    Yesdachi swallowed by Jaguar! Member yesdachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long is too long to answer the door? 3 seconds?

    There must be some “if you think they are destroying evidence” clause. Like the one “if you think they are endangering someone”. If not, there should be.
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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long is too long to answer the door? 3 seconds?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knock_and_announce
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    A knock and announce warrant, in the American law of criminal procedure, requires that the officer tasked with the responsibility of executing the warrant must knock on the door of the home to be entered for a search or arrest, and to announce their purpose. The general rule is that a warrant must have these requirements unless the officer requesting the warrant can demonstrate to the issuing judge that requiring such a procedure would endanger human life or safety, or would create a likelihood that evidence will be destroyed. An officer executing a knock and announce warrant may nonetheless enter the home without knocking or announcing if exigent circumstances are present at the time the warrant is executed.

    If an officer in possession of such a warrant fails to knock and announce, and no exigent circumstance was present, then the prosecutor may be barred under the exclusionary rule from introducing evidence seized in the entry and search of the home. However, the evidence may still be admitted if it can be shown that it would have been discovered irrespective of whether the officer had followed the instructions in the warrant.

    Under current case-law (2006), the knock and announce provision of a warrant (as well as most other provisions) is largely meaningless, since penalties for violating the requirements are either non-existent, or easily circumvented.
    I'm assuming this is the warrant type issued (reading the findlaw doc hurts my head). If the officers felt there would be danger to the police or evidence, they should have gotten the judges permission for quick entry.
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    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long is too long to answer the door? 3 seconds?

    the principle here is that the police just can't help themselves to personal property without notice. the reason "knock and wait" laws are present is because back in the day when cops could just kick down the door and go go go, there were too many instances where they had the wrong house and innocent people (usually) were shot and killed for doing nothing illegal.

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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long is too long to answer the door? 3 seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by drone
    If the officers felt there would be danger to the police or evidence, they should have gotten the judges permission for quick entry.
    This has been available to law enforcement in the US since the 1950's.

    Lazy warrant-writing, and lazy prosecution is now enshrined in the US body of law.

    This, along with Kelo v. City of New London gives the formal kiss-off to any notion that "A man's home is his castle".

    I can't wait for the CNN headline: "Justice Antonin Scalia's House Accidentally Targeted by DEA"
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    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long is too long to answer the door? 3 seconds?

    You're operating under the assumption of guilty until proven innocent. Just because someone told them something that allowed them to get a warrant doesn't mean the person on the other side of the door broke any law. And just waltzing into a private residence and stomping around isn't supposed to be kosher...

    But alas, those days are long gone.


    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    Am I missing something?

    The police went in. They found drugs. I am assuming that they had a warrant for the search.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long is too long to answer the door? 3 seconds?

    When I saw the title, I knew what this was about.

    You're right drone, this is a stupid decision that further erodes the constitution.

    Of course, we need to have cops be able to bust down doors and shoot anyone inside to win the war on drugs.

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