Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

[vonsch]

Red

The color of the storm that comes at dawn,
of fire, of mare's blood freshly drawn,
of ink marks measuring treasuries,
of sunsets painting inland seas,
and peaks!
Or a maiden's wind-chapped cheeks.
We the Saka Rauka ride,
a hornbow strapped to saddle. Hide
your cattle, women, hoarded gold
and pray to your heathen gods grown cold,
we come to make the world anew,
we the hardy, swift, though few,
our horses hooves flash warning, run!
Our blood sings with the hunt, our fun
is riding down your scattered hosts,
our dust tail is the shroud of ghosts.
Hide behind your high stone walls,
our trumpets sound, a tower falls,
as circling, circling, we go round,
til thunder fades, and the only sound
is popping coals of dimming fire,
and the cold, cold wind that lifts our gyre.



"Blasphemy! You would leave the steppes for decadence and walls! Our ancestors writhe! Our gods glare! How dare you even think it!"

It was exactly as I expected. What prophet is smiled upon by the present? But I had a dream, a dream of a people so vast we numbered more than the horses in the great herd. More, almost, than the stalks of grass that dance in the morning breeze out there beyond the circle where we sit, a vast expanse of sky and grass and... nothing more. Except the herd, but that is behind me, near the lake.

But the spies' reports of green expanses, trees, cities so large it took much of a day to ride around the walls, riches for the taking, these seeded the open plain of my dream with new life. There we could take, our horses could thrive, our daughers could bear many riders. And with the years we could ride west into the sunset to new lands, new pastures, new prey for the hunt.


Plan (attempt) A:

I will lead our people south. It will be a great migration, not a raid. We will leave a few here, to mind the mother herd. Once we find new pastures we will send for them. Then, when we have grown the herd, we will hunt!







(You can see the movement speed dropping as the force gets exhausted. Not moving the whole movement amount helps, but may be better to just rest a season, haven't tested. And certain seasons really hit movement hard too.)


Commentary:

For the record: BI exe, VH/M, FOW off. Too lost in all those mountains to play with it on still, not many passes and it's a LONG move. A trip up the wrong valley would probably mean a restart. And don't expect any fighting until I am hitting the first cities in my new home. I'll turn FOW back on then. (And, yes, too lazy to switch it on and off constantly!) No house rules except learn all I can about how this faction works (which presumably will apply to other nomadic factions too.)

The Saka victory conditions are very much those of a nomadic raiding culture: to capture a large number of regions, but without any need to hold any of them. They must simply have, at one point, held the city. And they must amass a treasury of 500,000 mnai in the process of capturing all these cities. (It's too bad we can't actually horde... yet.) There are probably several ways to accomplish this. One would be to simple use the usual: build, capture, build, capture, repeat route to a large empire that includes all of these regions. However, the enemy will probably make this difficult for a culture that's based on cavalry. The more sensible route is to establish some sort of a semi-permanent base that can be defended with cavalry away from the city itself, and then use that to build up a huge herd (and population) to support raiding armies. It may also be possible to do it in truly nomadic fashion: use the captured cities to rebuild armies briefly, then move on. It's unclear (to me, at the moment) whether the faction can continue without any cities. If so, that's a very interesting idea too.

The Saka get some benefits to their leaders to make the raiding less difficult too. If they are in the field, at war, and creating devastation, that offsets their upkeep costs to some degree. That can trim their operating costs, but they still need places to recruit. In their original home there were no mercenaries available at all.

A problem is I can't even see the government alternatives at this point. It would be nice to have some documentation on those. The existing FAQs say we get no type 1 or type 2, but doesn't tell anything about what type 3 or type 4 alternatives there might be. I can see "Migration" (Rataextae) in the Sulek list, though it's Sauromatae in the text it's probably the same for Saka. That's one. "Indigenous Settlements" may be another (the other?) That's present in the list for Chighu.

But my plan for this first attempt is to spend all my starting funds on the most basic horse archer units, and the remainder on diplomats. Then leave a foot-archer in Chighu and simply leave. Of course, a few family members will spawn there unless I have another city, and they will be trailing behind. With this couple of short stacks of family and horse archers (I disbanded all the more expensive noble varieties), I plan to move through Baktria southward, then turn back east into India. The first city I plan to hit is Kophen. From there Taksashile and the two farther south. All are part of the victory goals in any case, but they should make a good base with some room to defend the cities in the field. Kophen guards one pass in, so that city can be a forward defensive base until I'm ready to really start raiding. The Seleukids will be the main enemy, I suspect, and having the Baktrians and some Eleutheroi as a buffer won't hurt.

I may be overrecruiting. But since this is my first try at this strategy (or any Saka strategy), I prefer to have too much force to too little. I can't recruit more without restarting. I may need the numbers to hold the first Indian city too. I recruited 4 more horse archer units over the starting ones, and 2 diplomats. That was as far as the 5000 mnai would go. I might have destoyed some buildings for a bit more, but then would probably not be able to hold Chihgu, and not sure what that would mean at this stage. Risky as it is. If Baktra or Pahlava decides to take it, I can't do anything. A Pahlava force was at the Sogdiane-Kangha when I crossed the bridge. I had made peace with them by then, but was worried they would attack anyway. I could deal with them, but it would have cost me. And for no profit.

I sent my original diplomat south then west making trade agreements and signing ceasefires with all the enemies I inherited. Until the move is accomplished I prefer to avoid unnecessary war. Baktra is tempting as a target, but that would probably be a disaster in the long run. Better to hold off until I have something to the east to base from. I can't afford losses since I will be very deep into red ink (thus the title). I will shamlessly sell trade rights, maps, alliances, pet rocks, anything! I don't expect I'll get much to offset the bleeding, but it sure will not hurt. Since I will be at peace, I won't get the devastation benefits either... yet.

All the enemies have agreed to ceasefires and trade rights, at least. Farther west they are all interested in alliances too, but a lot are poor at this stage and will not give much if anything to sweeten the deal. I hope the Greeks and Italians are better.



269 BC, early summer: I, Sapalbuzes, leader of the herd, stand outside the walls of what is called Kohpen. It nestles in a valley surrounded by white-peaked mountains, like a single large egg in an untidy eagle's nest. My spy tells me it is not a large city. That is obvious to me, as it's not much large than Chighu. But it has a wooden wall, perhaps to keep in the cattle or to keep the noble's daughters from ranging afield, and there are more buildings than Chighu. I see no sign of horses. The spy reports the garrison is foot archers and throwers of spears. We shall invite them to come out to meet us. Our horses are not fond of closed-in places with more shadow than sun, more stink than fresh breeze. The riders are weary after the years of the movement. The rest will do them well while we wait. The scouts report the second herd is not yet to Baktra. It probably will not arrive in time for this hunt, which will probably happen in the spring. But they too are reported to be exhausted and moving slowly. The horses need rest. And the riders.

My granddaughter Vasula wishes to marry. Twice young riders have approached me to discuss the subject. I have turned them away, saying "None shall marry until we reach our new pastures!" She is 15, still young enough that a year or two of waiting will not harm her chances of many children.



Commentary: I didn't let my granddaughter marry while traveling. While it would mean another unit of heavy cav, I'd also be paying upkeep. And she can marry later. If the prospects had been really good, I might have let her. They weren't. She didn't need those lazy bums! As it is I had one grandson come of age too. And he's making the trek from Chighu solo. One more set of tresspasses against Baktria. In retrospect, it might be better to wait for all the initial build to finish before heading south. That way there would be fewer little pinpricks in the relationship with Baktria at this stage. But it will probably be an early one to go in any case. I suspect they will not like me in Kohpen.

Another thing to consider is besieging these cities with fewer units to tempt the garrison to sortie. WIth horse archers I can shoot them up and retreat if necessary, then come back next season and besiege them again so they can't reinforce. If they sortie immediately the first time, at worst it's one season of delay in the siege. It might also allow me to storm with minimal losses with a large force. That strikes me as very Eastern tactics also. They used lots of ploys, traps and ambushes, with the feigned retreat a favored one.

But in this case the timing is fine. If I had amassed the whole force into one larger army first, it would make sense to try to move up the schedule at Kophen with a trick. But it should be starved into submission, or sallying, before the rest of the herd arrives.

269 BC, winter: Word has come of a battle at Chighu. It seems a wandering band of riders decided to sack it. The garrison fought to the last man, but we are now truly homeless.

Commentary: Clearly can't even pseudo-horde. Losing last settlement means finis. I lost first battle as I had no idea how the movement in that city works and it has not even a pallisade. Trying the battle from a save. Next time I try this from scratch I'll leave two archers and my come-of-age grandson there until an alternate home is secure. Also, might be worth building a pallisade and one fewer unit. Heh, that was THE turn Kophen was to sortie too, or starve.

Interesting, after the reload they never attacked. Some randomness in that decision, it's clear.

It's also clear that there are problems with this strategy. While I hold Kophen, even after exterminating the population and destroying all buildings that I can that I know I won't need (which is most, since it doesn't hurt to lost the culture penalties on lower tier buildings), I am 48,220 mnai in the red. I doubt I can get into the black by doing the same to all three of the large cities to the east. And that means I have to abandon them since I can't install any sort of government. While it might be possible to pull something out of this, it's unlikely. So, back to a fresh start. Chalk this up to learning.

At least it's clear that the bodyguard cavalry can play the role of real workhorse in the early stage. I'm not sure much archer support is required. So, one alternate possibilty is scrap all but a garrison for Chighu and use the family as a raiding force. It's a free force on enemy soil (though not sure this applies to "rebel" lands... easily tested.)

I think a move to Sulek is the way to create a base to support an army. It looks like it can be prosperous, though it also looks like it may be a target for Baktria. It's on the silk road.

Will restart and return as Plan (attempt) B in another post.

Another lesson learned: Besieging a settlement allows the riders to recover from exhaustion. So they can ride hard and rest while waiting for a sortie, but need to be careful about early sorties while still exhausted.

(working on the links to screenies... back to thumbnails, I guess)

[Morte66]

It may also be possible to do it in truly nomadic fashion: use the captured cities to rebuild armies briefly, then move on.

I'm very intereted in how this works out, because I'd like to try a nomadic/migration game some time.

A problem is I can't even see the government alternatives at this point. It would be nice to have some documentation on those. The existing FAQs say we get no type 1 or type 2, but doesn't tell anything about what type 3 or type 4 alternatives there might be. I can see "Migration" (Rataextae) in the Sulek list, though it's Sauromatae in the text it's probably the same for Saka. That's one. "Indigenous Settlements" may be another (the other?) That's present in the list for Chighu.

Try the approach that was suggested to me in this thread:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=82111

That worked out pretty well.

Another thing to consider is besieging these cities with fewer units to tempt the garrison to sortie. WIth horse archers I can shoot them up and retreat if necessary, then come back next season and besiege them again so they can't reinforce.

I used to do that with the Sarmatians in the Rome Total Realism mod, and it worked well. I've used it with the Getae a bit in EB (see my AAR) to decent effect. I think the ideal would be to have two armies taking turns, attacking every single season to minimise the effects of them regenerating etc.

My only worry was that if you kill 150 for no loss then withdraw it's counted as a "close defeat" so you might pick up negative traits, but I don't think that's happening. My king is a miserable psycopath, but he was heading that way at the start...

Do you have one unit of infantry who can work a ram? If not you'll have to starve them, or get tricky. You may know this already, but you win a siege if...
- They sally and you rout their entire army simultaneously
- You follow a routing unit closely to get through the gate, and then get sole occupation of the square for three minutes
- A relief army attacks you and brings the garrison out as reinforcements, and you kill absolutely everyone in thaty battle leaving the city with zero garrison then take it without fighting.

I've had quick cavalry conquests with all three.

Interesting, after the reload they never attacked. Some randomness in that decision, it's clear.

Yep.

[vonsch]

Plan B: Take and improve Sulek to create a depot. Chighu is too poor with only livestock as a resource. Sulek has iron, copper, precious metals, more livestock than Chighu, stone quarries, timber, clothes & dyes, and a wonder. And it's on the silk road. It also has a larger population. It's also better positioned to expand into Baktria, but that works both ways. The garrison is not horse archers, which means lower losses, but with this strategy that's not as important. The towns to the west in thesteppes are all steppes cultures, and all cavalry, which means high losses. And the rewards are miniscule. At some point they will have to be sacked, but they aren't worth developing unless there is a reason to use them to recruit (which there may be later.)
Gava Saka does have four copper deposits, I see. It might pay to take that too. But it's cavalry, so it will probably cost more to conquer.

First steps, then, will be to consolidate these scattered family members and disband some units (especially the Early Saka Nobles) to avoid large red ink. Instead of building units, the starting mnai can go to building some things in Chighu to boost income as much as possible. Or to improve future recruiting there. Also, the diplomat will head out to do the usual, make peace for now, sell maps, make alliances where they make sense. Everything east of the Caspian and Red Sea are the victory targets, so that's a consideration in alliances.

Also, need to move the one spy up to report on Sulek, though we'll starve that garrison into the open. I prefer fighting my cav outside in most situations. No room to charge or skirmish in the streets. After scouting Sulek, the spy will be my early warning system for Baktrian incursions. Won't be able to afford towers for some time.

For the moment I won't be hitting Eleutheroi outside my own lands or target lands. Better to leave them as buffers for the Baktrians and Parthians.

Oxyboakes, the family member 2 seasons out from Sulek, by far the closest, can start pestering them. He has one horse archer unit with him. It will take about two years just to get everyone to Sulek. It's a shame to disband these experienced troops, but I can recuit fresh ones cheaper than the support I'd pay to get the others home.

All the Ksava Saka Rauka family have the "Lives on the move" trait. That hurts them as governors, but helps them as raiders. It gives them +20% movement, 10% bonus when looting, +1 command attacking and +2 leading cavalry, but -1 to farming output and -10% to taxes and trade. I suspect I'll want to marry some granddaughters to men from other families/cultures to find some governors.

After the above steps, the bleeding is about 1500 mnai per turn. Sulek has no walls either, and takes 4 turns to starve. But I expect a sortie since the besieging force is one family member and one horse archer unit. The faction leader and his three HA units are still a year away, if not more due to exhaustion. The faction heir is another season or two behind. Distances are by themselves challenging.

But they also are a defensive buffer.


272 BC, late summer:

My King,

As we expected the Sulekites are not pleased with our presence in their pastures. They have come forth to greet us with weapons in hand. As you ordered, we extracted a tribute in blood before retreating. Then when they carried off their dead and returned to their loving sheep, we returned. We will continue with our play until you arrive. Do not tarry, My King, for I fear we may run short of game for your hunt.

By my scribe's hand, this day outside Sulek,

Oxyboakes


Oxy is an optimist. The garrison has too many archers to do this without taking casualties. And the one cav unit is, of course, equipped with bows too. I took out 4 times what I lost, but too many of the losses were my horse archers to sustain it. So just have to be patient while the FL rides in. The bait and scoot tactic works best when you have both mobility and range on the poor target. In this case, I have neither at least until the cavalry is wiped out, and it's not a wimp unit. I mostly chewed up archers with my family bodyguard. But this garrison is a lot more managable than the ones in the steppes to the west! Those are almost pure cavalry, and archers to boot.

Morte66: Thanks for the comments. I may have to resort to the cheat codes to figure out what's what with governments. I'm not even at the stage of wondering about units... yet.

Sulek doesn't even have a wall. The problem is just being outnumbered 4:1 at the moment. And they are decent units. I do know the siege tricks for horse archer armies. But I don't know these units well yet. The basic Sarmatian Horse Archers are lower on ammo than I'm used to and more vulnerable to return fire. And the foot archers are tougher than the plain RTW ones by quite a bit. Despite repeated overruns with the impressive bodyguards, I didn't rout a single unit of them. I did cause a lot of casualties though. I suspect the unit sizes are part of the issue.

As far as the nomad play goes, without hordes we will always need a stable base. Otherwise the risk is the loss of the last settlement before the next one is taken and end-of-game. But it can be simulated to a degree with a city or two as a permanent base. It's nice to not have to hold regions (aside from a base).

[vonsch]

271 BC, spring:

Dearest Odatis,

I fear I am getting old for this. I have arrived at Sulek and joined up with Oxyboakes. I am exhausted! It's small consolation that the riders and horses are also. We await Aryandes who follows, so will have some time to recover.

I hear from the master of the purse that we are not going into debt quite as fast of late. Perhaps the wealth of Sulek can return a smile to his face. While I know little of this merchanting and trade, I know tis nice to be able to purchase a fine new stud or mare. There is a fine market here and the horses, of which we have seen but few thus far, are reputed to be fine and strong. A scout says there is also a fine hunting ground to the north. Perhaps, when we are recovered, we will slip away for a bit of hunting there.

What news from the west? Did Shafar secure an alliance with the Baktrians? Oh, to seduce them away from the Seleukieans! But, in any event, any such alliance would be a mere convenience. They stand astride our path west.

We expect to ride into Sulek late summer. I shall send for you then.

Send me news of the new colts when you hear!

Sapalbizes




THIS is not good. I hope they don't come east to Sulek. I don't see how I can beat that with what I have and with my ever-more-negative balance. If they do move on Sulek, it may be that Saka needs to keep all the starting troops and hire more, and go more negative, before things settle down a bit.

They are, for the moment, just blocking the pass. I can live with that.


271 BC, fall:

My King,

I have concluded talks with the Parthians. They have agreed to pay a small sum of mnai for peace, for trade rights, and for some scratchings on a skin I convinced them was a map of the east. It's a mere 300 mnai total, but it's mnai! They appear rather poor, in fact. I brought up the subject of an alliance, but they would not discuss it. More fools they.

I shall continue on southwestward from Kiat. Perhaps I can secure an additional sum from the Seleukeians, though they seem to hold us in less than high esteem.

I received word that you are yet camped outside Sulek, but expect to be camped inside before winter is over. May Urmaysde shine upon you! May Druvaspa ride at your side!

Ever in your service,

Shafar



Commentary: Sulek has fallen to me at a cost of about 30 (more) horse archers. That leaves me 7500 mnai in the red with, after disbanding the foot archer unit that was garrisoning Chighu, about 80 mnai net income. As a test I deleted the Migration, and am allowed to build a migration now. So it's something I can use, presumably government or a governmental "structure," but the wording in the text changed from Sarmatian to Saka. So I don't know if I have to use my own or can use "thiers." And I am about 10000 mani from finding out. I think I will restore the old one and wait to test when I have the mnai.

I hope to earn that flogging maps. I don't see any other settlement that I can grab, at the moment, but my spy might find a Baktrian that's undergarrisoned if I want to start a war. But that's two years of travel since my shortcut is blocked by that stack of Eleutheroi that I can't beat with what I have (I don't think... can't catch the darned HA with my bodyguard). So best plan is probably flogging maps and patience. And praying that no rebels decide either town is inviting. Oh, negative population growth in Sulek. Hmm. Not good. Need more income to hold even. Chighu is growing a little, and there's another building queued that may help a bit more there. Not sure what its net effect will be on growth.

What I need is a husband for my granddaughter that can learn to be a decent governor! *Prays to Ssandramata*

Aha! Restoring the Migration put Sulek back at zero growth (instead of -1%). So I can gain some ground while flogging trade agreements and maps.

Caught in a bit of a Catch-22. I might be able to take another Eleutheroi town if I didn't have to keep a garrison in Sulek. But that bandit stack, which I can't whip is creating unrest which forces me to keep a larger garrison. So I wait, and pray.


270BC, summer:

My King,

I have met with the Seleukids. While they wished peace and trade, they would pay no tributes, nor even a mild bribe. Alliance was not a subject to broach. For all their size, they pled poverty. Perhaps their wars aflict their purse as much as their enemies. Still, their cities are reupted to be large and surely they have much wealth. Perhaps we should extract our due tribute directly.

I travel on. I had hoped to send a modest amount of mnai to aid you, but perhaps after meeting with the next 'client.' It may be spring before that takes place. It is difficult to cross these passes in the winter.

As always, your servant.

Shafar

[vonsch]

265 BC, spring:

After years of little success with collecting tributes in the west, and more grandsons to support, I decided we needed to find another manner to settle these old debts. So, taking my sons and grandsons, except for a governor for each province, we headed west into the steppes to see what would be the will of the gods. We came upon Gava-Sake, a small settlement in an area with promise, but little present riches. We wrested it from a small troop of bandits and made it ours. Alas, while we increased our grazeland, we did little to pay down the debts. And the husband of my granddaughter lies here, leaving me no greatgrandsons.

Commentary: The Eleutheroi were getting a bit frisky anyway, so I decided to take the battle to them. One invading force, a small one, fortunately, was eliminated on the southwest edge of the lake at Chighu. From there I sent the five family members west. The garrison of Gava-Sake was only 5 units, mostly horse archers, and I just autoresolved into a victory (chasing them all over the tactical map would be too much of a chore with only my heavy cav). I destroyed one building that's redundant (Chighu can be the production center once I'm no longer broke!) for 800 mnai. I'm eyeing the rest too. Still almost 5000 in the red. Just can't seem to get anything for trade rights, maps or alliances, though I can usually arrange trade rights for free, and occasionally and alliance. The diplomat is on the east coast of the Adriatic where there is a huddle of other diplomats.

But this third region will do the trick if I can hold out a couple more years. And if I don't let my grandaughters marry and not too many grandsons come of age!

263 BC, summer:

Sapalbizes has died. After the years of struggle to pay off the debts, he never saw the day we achieved freedom. If he had lasted one more season he would have. Such is fate. I, Aryandes, will carry on with his dream. Soon we will build new corrals and train new riders. It will yet be years, but the worst is past.

263 BC, fall:

Today we burned the last proof of debt. And with the remaining mnai, we established Indiginous Settlements in Sulek to appease the local population, hoping to make them more useful. There is rumor they might provide fighting men of some worth, given time and training. We also trained a new diplomat to remain close to home. His first order will be to secure an alliance with the Baktrians, to give us time to select riders and train garrison troops, perhaps even build stockades around our settlements. Word comes from Shafar who roams in far lands, as far as the western sea. From lands he calls Gaulish, he reports some small success in both securing alliances and trading agreements, along with some small tributes.

262 BC, summer:

A third Eleutheroi force assaulted Sulek this summer. It was a heroic battle. Only two of the original four troops of horse archers remain and they are battered. Every arrow we possessed was fired. Every blade shows nicks. But we held against twice our numbers. Perhaps there is some use in those walls. It would at least keep us off the cursed streets that lead everywhere but where we try to ride! I have decided it is not walls that are evil constructions, but streets!

But we admire the courage of the raiders. Down to 5 men, the general would not retreat from his attack. He came on until our arrows were spent. When my bodyguard and I finally charged the remnants, they died to a man. No quarter was pled. I hope all our enemies shall not be this stalwart or victory's price may cost us more than we can pay!



Conquest of Sulek


3rd defense of Sulek (Never say quit!)


The memorial erected for a valiant foe!

(Some of the horse archers they brought got away earlier... and a few odd spearmen too.)


260 BC, spring:

My King,

The thaws of the peak ice has apparently released yet another flood of Eleutheroi. Miyika is out of position to give detailed reports, but Sulek is expecting another siege this summer. Well, assault. With no pallisade, siege is stretching a word into the shape of a waterlogged hide. The two units of riders are still on their way back from retraining replacements in Chighu, I understand, but we trained more foot archers and Moga, my 19-year-old nephew, has arrived with his bodyguards. I believe we can fight them off one more time. Once that is done I intend to invest some of these profits from the silk road caravans in a tower up in the pass through which I believe these raiding parties arrive. With your permission, of course. That large bandit army reported years ago bases up in that pass. Our loyal spy, Miyika, reports that army is hiding across the border in Baktria these last years.

Miyika also has disturbing reports from Baktria. Theodotos Baktrios wintered in a forest to our southwest about two seasons march from our border. But he reports they appear to be conducting training, or a hunt. They have made no further movement in our direction. Included is a list of the troops he has observed. It is not a small army.

I hear the new diplomat (I have not yet learned his name) has had no success in arranging an alliance with Theodotos.

I shall write again in the fall, or sooner if I have news of the battle. Or if you hear nothing by winter, it might be best to send a new governor. Rest assured, the price for my life will be high, that is my oath to you.

Your faithful brother and servant,

Oxyboakes





Oxyboakes's Situation Map
(To the SW is Theodolos. The Eleuthians are just west of Sulek. The replacement troops are NW on the road.)


Miyika's Report on Theodotos


Our Faithful Spy



Prince and Brother,

The two units of riders are indeed retrained and sent back to you. I hope they arrive in time to be of use again. They are become examples for the youths in courage and proficiency. Already the chanters are composing lines for that great victory of yours! I should be envious. But I'm too busy trying to flatten what little silver we have so that it covers more projects.

Can no one there design one of those infernal walls you wrote of? As much as it will make the old zealots whine, I do believe you are right in that one would be useful. It seems the silk road is a path for bandits. Perhaps you can find one of the natives who has seen it done? Or find a Baktrian to bribe? If these bandit raids are to be regular, we must be prepared, but you cannot yet support a force large enough to make them wary.

The news of Theodotos is indeed worrying. We have not a spare troop at present, and one would be the same as none in the face of that, I fear. But I have a plan... If word comes that he has moved towards the pass, two of our sons and their bodyguards can also move into the pass from Wasun Yabgu to Kangha. The Baktrian garrison at Bin-kath is reported to be very small. I am confident that they can take the town. But it is not my intention to do that, so much as to pose the threat should Theodolos threaten you. I know that is no great comfort, directly, but it may prevent him from going further. From Bin-kath they might well strike at Marakando, and perhaps even Baktra itself, if those garrisons are also small, as they have been reported to be in recent years.

Should the worst happen, do slip away into the mountains. I need you more than I need Sulek, though I desperately need Sulek!

News just in from Baktra! Either diplomacy is beginning to show results, or the new diplomat, Arta, is a prodigy! When he met with Theodotos's council (since Theo is still in the field on maneuvers, they said) and offered them the latest maps of the far west, they presented him with a pouch containing 2067 mnai! There, build your tower!

I want to believe this bodes well, but I keep remembering that steppe-rider saying, "Beware Greeks horsing about with gifts." Keep scouts patrolling the passes!

We will yet ride around the high stone walls of Taksashila, my brother!

Aryandes, King of the Saka






Aryandes Contingency Plan

[Tuuvi]

I was going to write a Saka AAR, but you beat me to it. Oh well, I guess there's room for two .

EDIT:After reading I see you have taken a different aproach, very nice.

A problem is I can't even see the government alternatives at this point. It would be nice to have some documentation on those. The existing FAQs say we get no type 1 or type 2, but doesn't tell anything about what type 3 or type 4 alternatives there might be. I can see "Migration" (Rataextae) in the Sulek list, though it's Sauromatae in the text it's probably the same for Saka. That's one. "Indigenous Settlements" may be another (the other?) That's present in the list for Chighu.

Nomadic governments work differently from the other factions. instead of having governments, you first build migration, which represents your people moving into the province. After you choose your way of life, pastoral or nomadic. Nomadic governments allow you to recruit all of your HAs, but they do not let you build walls or farms, and you can only upgrade your market to a very low level. Pastoral governments only let you recruit elite HAs, but you have a wider choice of foot troops and can build palisades and low level farms, and you can upgrade your markets a little higher than with nomadic governments.

[vonsch]

I was going to write a Saka AAR, but you beat me to it. Oh well, I guess there's room for two .

There sure is! And I hope you find a better way to get started than I have in my campaign. I'm thinking maybe I'll try really cheesy next time and just use all my family to try to grab a second region. If I can get started building SOME infrastructure sooner, I can get a stable raiding base going. Even a half-stack of troops above a garrison would do the job for a long time, I suspect.

Thanks for the info, Lignator. I'm unsure why it appears that I can build both types though. I think. Need to earn more mnai and see what develops.

Still beating back incursions of Eleutheroi. Fortunately, smallish stacks. I'm barely hanging on. But getting a little building done finally. And some judicious recruiting. I think at least Sulek needs a fence.

[Morte66]

Again, this might be things you already know, but I hope it's useful...

The diplomat is on the east coast of the Adriatic where there is a huddle of other diplomats.

You do better if your influence is higher than theirs, so the last thing a diplomat should do is haggle with other professional negotiators. Send him up to those little troop detachments with captains, or small towns with no family members inside.

It would at least keep us off the cursed streets that lead everywhere but where we try to ride!

Man, you can say that again. *fume*


I like palisades. They let you chose when to fight. And raiders often just wander off if they find a palisade (this happened in history too).


Do you have any road trade worth talking about? Would you actually lose much if bandits interrupted it?

[Pelopidas]

Nice idea of AAR !
Another AAR I have in mind I don't have to do, thank you :p

[vonsch]

Again, this might be things you already know, but I hope it's useful...

You do better if your influence is higher than theirs, so the last thing a diplomat should do is haggle with other professional negotiators. Send him up to those little troop detachments with captains, or small towns with no family members inside.

Actually, while I know this, when playing I do tend to forget it. So thanks for the reminder. It's one thing to know something intellectually, and another to actually practice it without thought.

Do you have any road trade worth talking about? Would you actually lose much if bandits interrupted it?

Road trade is very limited so far. I may have an average of 150 or so total for each town. That's mostly because there's very little development still. My net income after my modest upkeep (and generals' wages) is running in the 700-1000 area now. That let's me build one improvement constantly in one town, not much else. And I'm trying to build up a small reserve to crash build troops if I am forced to by a large incursion (which I probably won't be able to beat anyway... but have to try!)

And I'm still flummoxed by the whole nomad/settler thing. I think I understand the concept, but the implementation remains opaque. I'm not seeing the option to build walls at all, and the path to them is not apparent in the building browser. WIP issues. I'm trying to get at least Sulek set as a settled town, with a pallisade or stockade (or whatever is the limit for Saka), as I suspect it is somewhat programmed for visits due to the silk road. That's just based on my experience thus far and some idea of how I'd design things, were it me. I've had a couple small bandit incursions in the other two regions too, but more frequent ones in Sulek. It may also be that the bandit stack up in the pass just across the border is causing the engine to spawn more. That would explain why Chighu sees few now, since it has no border with an Eleutheroi-held region, and I haven't seen any resident bandit... band. Saba Yabgu had one, along with the garrison, both were destroyed. The patrolling band chased a family member into Wusun Tabgu where I managed to hit it with three members and eliminate it. I think there's one in Dahyu Alanna still, but I haven't seen it in a while. The garrison of Gava-Alanna is large for my available troops (without exposing Sulek to serious risk, and it's 2 years of travel, at least, each way).

This is definitely a major-league balancing act. Far more so than Casse, which I got about 40 years into, including unifying the Isles.

Reading every related AAR I can find for ideas and information. The Sauromatae are probably the best comparison, but their starting position is much more robust. If they lose a town early, they don't flat die!

I think my number one suggestion/request would be that the "government" for these nomads factions be labeled in the same style as the non-nomad factions and with the 1-2-3-4 sort of icon. They don't have to work the same, but it would help if the player could spot them. And the Migration entry needs inclusion in the building browser, with clear explanation that if it's not present, it should be built ASAP when a region is conquered with the intent of retaining it.

I'm still unsure if the whole "build replacements in a conquered sacked town before abandoning it" idea is viable. I don't yet see that replacements CAN be built in those regions without significant waits for infrastructure building. That would rule it out. And it might be realistic that way. But you'd think that basic troops like low-level horse archer units should come available quickly after a migration... or I would. Somehow. And they may. I am just still in nomad-land, so it's hard to tell since the early nomad structures seem to be in place before I get there.

[vonsch]

On the topic of Saka walls:

Below is a screenie of the Wooden Wall entry in the building browser. Its requirements are listed as:

Allied Government
Small Nomadic Settlement



My problem is, neither of those are listed in the browser. Chighu and Sulek are both at large town size, so the obvious "too small" is unlikely (though possible). But normally they would still show in the browser, just greyed out. Unless this is some sort of a "reforms" issue. Of course, the wall requires a Wooden Pallisade first, but that has the same requirements listed and can't build that either.


Another case, Granary. It requires Basic Farming, but that isn't even showing in the browser. Yet when I captured Sulek it had it, so I can build a granary there.



I'm experimenting with building everything, pretty much, to see if some new building options appear beyond the obvious "next in this progression" stuff. But mnai is VERY tight, and it takes time too. It would help to have some clue what to build next to get from A -> B.

This is a similar issue to the "which government and MIC do I need to get X unit" questions, except far more basic and aggravating as it affects basic development, not the luxury issue of ideal army composition. Without SOME basic development there is no issue of which unit to build... can't build any units.

To be clear, not saying that I can't build ANY units... not yet worrying much about which units I can build where as I can't afford to build many, thought it's supporting them that's the huge issue. Chighu can build the nomad-type units, and I can easily get foot archers in any region.

[vonsch]

Saka building choices

Okay, some new info from my testing. All costs are (mnai/turns). And I will establish some abbreviations here, to save typing. I stripped Chighu and Gava-Saka to the basic town to test. (I'll probably get invaded while trying to do this The waits are long for some of these.)

First, you need to understand (somewhat, unlike me when I started) the different tracks the nomadic factions and their conquests can follow. See this link on the EB site for a chart. (thanks, LorDBula!)
Second, you need to understand what are Nomadic, Mixed and All-the-Rest regions. See the map here. The darker brown are Mixed, the tan are Nomadic.

Inhabited Area
(no reqs)
- law 5%
- Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
- Diplomat (250/50)

• Migration (2000/4) M

• Indigenous Settlements (200/1) IS

• Trader (2000/4) T

• Altars, 4 types (800/2) Ax (AS, AU, AD, AH)

• Boddh Thupa (3000/8) BT

Populated Area
(reqs: IS, WC, SNS, WHH)
- law 10%
- Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
- Diplomat (250/50)

• Migration (2000/4) M

• Indigenous Settlements (200/1) IS

• Trader (2000/4) T / Market (3500/6) Mt

• Altars, 4 types (800/2) Ax (AS, AU, AD, AH)

• Boddh Thupa (3000/8) BT

Densely populated Area
(reqs: IS, WC, SNS, WHH)
- law 15%
- Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
- Diplomat (250/50)
(Will rarely see this without some of the following, but possible they may still be available to build if it's a captured large town.)

• Migration (2000/4) M

• Indigenous Settlements (200/1) IS

• Trader (2000/4) T / Market (3500/6) Mt

• Altars, 4 types (800/2) Ax (AS, AU, AD, AH)

• Boddh Thupa (3000/8) BT

T (Trader)
(trade revenues increased from 118 to 128, roughly 10%. Also increased trade for trade partner regions.)
- Increased trade goods
- pop 0.5%

• Market (3500/6) Mt

Mt (Market)
(req: T)
- Increased trade goods
- pop 0.5%
- Spy (350/100)

AD (Altar of Druvaspa)
(trade income went from 128 to 141 locally. Slight increase with trading partner too, it appears.)
- Increased trade goods

• Large Altar of Druvaspa (1600/4) LAD

LAD (Large Altar of Druvaspa)
(trade income went from 142 to 152 locally. Slight improvement to trading partners also.)
- Increased trade goods
- pop 0.5%

• Great Altar of Druvaspa (3200/8) GAD

GAD (Great Altar of Druvaspa)
(trade income went from 152 to ? locally. Slight improvement to trading partners also.)
- Increased trade goods
- pop 0.5%
- happiness 5%

PT (Purification tent)
(req: ?)
- health 10%

• Healer (1600/4) H

H (Healer)
(req: PT)
- health 10% (looks like an error in health amounts between PT and H, probably should be 5% and 10% respectively)

M (Migration)
(req: conquest. If you plan to grow this region at all, M is required.)

• Nomadism (100/1) N (requires region to be Nomadic or Mixed)

• Pastoralism (100/1) P (requires region to be non-Nomadic)

• Elite Herds (2000/2) EH

N (Nomadism)
(Req: M. This starts the "nomadic" path. It excludes the "settled" path launched with Pastoralism.)
- law 5%
- law/10% High King's Herds (maybe with both N and HKH?)

• Warlord's Camp (800/2) WC

EH (Elite Herds)
(Nothing new appeared with this set, may be a complex trigger with some others... think so. Also required for growth.)

WC (Warlord's Camp)
- Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
- Sarmatian Horse-Archers (1089/272)

• Hunting Grounds (2000/6) HG

• Warlord's Courts (2200/6) WCt

WCt (Warlord's Courts)
- Early Saka Nobles (3497/874)

• Royal Courts (5000/8) RC (requires Populated Area & Royal Camp)

RC (Royal Courts)
- Early Saka Nobles (3497/874)

• High King's Courts (10000/12) HKC (requires Densely Populated Area & High King's Camp)

HKC (High King's Courts)
- Early Saka Nobles (3497/874)

P (Pastoralism)
(req: M and non-nomadic region. This starts the "settled" track. It excludes the "nomadic" track. May increase farming income directly, like a farming level... need to test again. Hmm, something is showing up as a farming upgrade, but can't figure out what so far. This improvement is gone and still seeing two icons.)
- law 5%

• Basic Farming (1200/4) BF

• Trading Paths (800/2) TP

• Small Nomadic Settlement (1600/6) SNS

BF (Basic Farming)
(req: P.)
- Improved Farms and Food Production

• Granary (1600/4) G

g (Granary)
(req: BF)
- pop 0.5%

• Grain Silo [6400/8] GS (error, it seems)

TP (Trading Paths)
(reqs: P. Trade went from 118 to 120 locally.)
- Improved roads and trade

SNS (Small Nomadic Settlement)
(reqs: P)
- Saka Foot Archers (896/224)

• Wooden Pallisade (800/2) WP

LNS (Large Nomadic Settlement)
(reqs: SNS)
- Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
- Sampul Infantry (896/224)

• Wooden Pallisade (800/2) WP

WP (Wooden Pallisade)
(reqs: IS, SNS)
- Extra Wall Defenses

• Wooden Wall (1600/4) WW

WW (Wooden Wall)
(reqs: WP)
- Extra Wall Defenses
- Reinforced Gates

IS (Indigenous Settlements)
(Precursor to non-nomadic lines of MICs which may only be built in non-nomadic or non-mixed regions, it appears.)
- law 5%

• Trade Route Scout Parties (1000/8) TRSP

• Allied Government (300/1) AG (only if not mixed or nomadic region)

AG (Allied Government)
(req: IS and neither mixed nor nomadic region)


TRSP (Trade Route Scout Parties)
(Nothing new, and no change apparent in trade. Pre-req for trade caravans according to text.)
- pop 0.5%


Note: You can build pastoralism, then build some things that will persist, such as roads and granaries and farms, and then convert to nomadism by destroying the pastoralism and doing a new migration. It takes time and mnai. You can't have camps and courts co-resident with pastoralism though, so it appears you need to go from pastoralism to nomadism if you want some of the pastoralism benefits.

[LorDBulA]

And the Migration entry needs inclusion in the building browser, with clear explanation that if it's not present, it should be built ASAP when a region is conquered with the intent of retaining it.

Building browser is hardcoded feature of RTW. It was done for RTW and it just cant handle much more complicated EB building structure.
There is nothing that can be done.

I love this AAR. I also love the letter perspective. I hope You will continue it.

[vonsch]

Building browser is hardcoded feature of RTW. It was done for RTW and it just cant handle much more complicated EB building structure.
There is nothing that can be done.

I love this AAR. I also love the letter perspective. I hope You will continue it.

I was afraid that might be the case. In that case we just need more documentation. Which is what I'm tackling, sorta, here.

Thanks for the compliment. I intend to play on when I stop researching. And post when it seems right. Adds a bit of more interest to playing from my perspective too.

[LorDBulA]

I dont know if You have seen this.
I think it should help.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/nomad-gov_chart.jpg

You can find it on our web page https://www.europabarbarorum.com/downloads_patch.html

[vonsch]

I dont know if You have seen this.
I think it should help.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/nomad-gov_chart.jpg

You can find it on our web page https://www.europabarbarorum.com/downloads_patch.html

Nope, I had not seen that. That should help some. Searched here for it, but not there.

From a glance, it's apparent part of the explanation for the apparent gaps is sheer geography. I need to get out more.


Are the maps of the mixed and nomadic regions current? And anyone know which color is which? I may be blind but I can see no legend.

Aha, testing shows dark brown must be mixed, and the tan is nomadic.

[vonsch]

Okay, based on findings so far, Sulek will never have a wall under Saka control... unless it captures it with one built by someone else. Same for the other pure nomadic regions. The capital, however, is Mixed, so it can take the pastoral track and build wooden walls, farms, and more settled improvements. Which is probably a good idea while "turtling" to build up to support some raiding. That way can build some spears there too, to assist with defending settlements. A spear unit or two greatly improves archers standing behind them. And vice versa.

But it means defending Sulek will always be a mobile effort. C'est la guerre.

It also means, based on my current understanding, that Nomadic areas cannot grow in "population density." The population can keep growing, of course, but if it was a "Populated Area" when captured, it will never rise above that under a nomadic faction to "Densly Populated Area."

There appear to be strategic implications here. In general, holding nomadic regions constantly is contraindicated. If you want to "grow" one, give it away or let it be conquered by another non-nomadic faction. Once they upgrade it, take it back. This applies generally, too, since there is an apparent cap on development at "Densely Populated Area." That's equal to Large Town.

It may be only marginally possible to retain control of cities in any case (we will see) as the Saka (and other nomads, presumably) probably lack the order-creating improvements to manage large populations where there are large culture penalties, etc. And there will be with cities since we simply can't override much of what's there with our own buildings. All we can do is add ours in to somewhat balance things. That's similar to other barbarian factions, and all the new types of improvements in the nomad/pastoral tracks may actually give nomads some advantage over other barbarians in balancing out some culture penalties.

It also shows where I went wrong in my early building in Sulek. I should have gone to nomadism and gotten my horse archer training moved to local. That will be first priority when I get back to it. No more 2 years trips for replacements! And Sulek seems to be where they will be most needed.

[Morte66]

So, am I right in thinking that...

The basic idea of being nomadic on the strategic map -- wander around, sometimes hold cities for a while and sometimes don't -- is pretty infeasible. Well, it's no more feasible for the Saka Rauka than the Romani. You're meant to take regions and (try to) hold them. And you have to keep them for a while and do some building before you can get troops. Some of your government buildings have the word "nomad" in the name, but they pretty much let you build "herds" instead of "farms" as city improvements.

All you could do is take new places and let the old ones rebel or trade them away diplomatically, like players who do "migration" games, only do it lots of times.

[I think RTR7 will run on BI and have hordes. But it's a more centre-weighted map, it pays less attention to outer "barbarians" than EB and more to the middle.]

[vonsch]

259 BC, summer:

My King,

We are inflicted with a plague of farmers. In the spring we hunted those bandits I reported in my last letter. They were nothing more than farmers with pitchforks angered that the herds ate their crops. It seems no one here knows how to build fences. Or walls. The prospects of walls are not good.

I sent Moga out to deal with the farmers, with the two returning troops of riders. Despite the farmers climbing a high ridge to try to avoid them, they easily crushed that minor uprising. But when summer came, as if out of the very soil, another crop of farmers has appeared. They too will be nothing to deal with, but I think we will wait for fall as this heat is hard on the horses.

Since we have not be fotunate in finding one of those arkiteksmen, we have abandoned the idea of a wall. Instead we are expanding the herds and training more riders. With our own training here, we can avoid the long delays in sending to Chighu for replacements. Moga is in charge of that. It will be good experience. He will also ride out to build towers as we can afford to spare the supplies. Perhaps with a better tower signalling system we can eliminate these farmer uprisings.

I hear word that Chighu is becoming more settled, or is so inclined. Do you think it's that Zeionises is getting old? Or has sitting there in the capital made him lazy? I hear he remains hale, though. Maybe he can build one of those walls.

How are things there in Gava-Saka? Is it growing at all? Is there still more grass than horses to graze it? I hear rumors about of plagues to the west. We should find more healers and encourage the use of purification tents regularly. The evil spirits must be kept away.

We build a trading post this year, in hopes of seeing more silk road merchants. The Altar of Druvaspa has drawn some to trade here. I wonder if it might not be wiser to honor Ssandramata. This business of cities has more to do than hands to do it. Our people are more inclined to ride out than work in. I understand that urge and struggle with it often. But we need more riders, and for more riders we needs larger herds, more feed, more men! And to bear them, more wives and daughters. Ssandaramata bless us!

Your brother and servant,

Oxyboakes



A look at Sulek

Commentary: Growth is very slow. Partly that's due to high to very high taxes, to have some mnai to build improvements. But the nomadic life isn't one to create population explosions often either. I suspect the best strategy is to pump growth more so than trade for nomads. Once the population is up, taxes may exceed what trade would accomplish, but in any case the people are needed for troops also. Even if I had the mnai in the treasury, building a lot of troops would cripple me due to population shrinkage. And trade itself feeds on population somewhat. There is little production and smaller import markets with small populations.

Sulek has the advantage of some pre-existing improvements. Oddly, they will allow me to build more that I could not otherwise. I'm not sure if this is intended, but it does make some sense, so it can be justified. For example, Sulek has basic farms of Eastern Greek style. As a result I can add a granary, which has a Basic Farms prerequisite. If this is not intended, the Saka granary should also test for the existence of Pastoralism. But for now I am assuming it is intended, that the pre-existing local farmers would know how to build granaries and demand/implore the government to do so. I don't yet know if this will have further cascading implications.

The existence of those farms and the roads is part of what confused me about the whole improvement construction business. Another is why Gava-Saka, which is very small, has the option to build a market, which Chighu does not. Both are currently nomadic. Both have traders. Market may be tied to a map resource. Or something.


Uncle,

The farmers have been planted in their own fields. Only Artabones was slain in a fool move to kill one more farmer before he followed my orders to regroup. I return the troops of riders to you and will proceed to the pass with only my bodyguard to see about that tower. I should return in the spring or early summer.

Give Sabina my love, you old goat. When will I have cousins? Tell Honaria I shall be home soon. I pray to Ssandramata we are blessed with a first son by then!

Moga



259 BC, winter:

Uncle,

I arrived at the pass to discover the tower will require more materials and labor than we expected. It will require 4000 mnai, not 2000. I also found yet another band of farmers crossing the border from either the Eleutheroi region to the southwest, or Baktria. We may need to establish a fortress here to guard this pass. That might prevent the disruptions of the herd in the valley there.

In any event, I dare not attempt to plant these farmers with just my bodyguard, though they are confident. Miyika appeared and informed me there were over 300 of them, then he vanished again. He said to tell you that Theodotos remains on maneuvers and has not left that area, but he will continue to watch. So, might you send those two troops of horse archers to the pass? I will meet them on the road partway. I will deal with these farmers then, and return in two seasons if all goes as planned. I expect we will not have the 4000 mnai to hand this year.

Any news from Honoria? And how is Sabina? Are you keeping her well exercised? I want sons, and nephews!

From to top of Hoamavarga-Sulek Pass,

Moga

Did I mention it's rather cold up here?




World Sitrep 259 BC.


258 BC, Spring:

Uncle,

We found those farmers. Or they found us. They somehow managed to completely surprise us in an open field in a high pasture. I really do believe they spring directly from the soil they till. I have no other explanation, unless they are born of mist and morning. In any case, it ended as do most ambushes; one side was unscathed, the other devastated. The problem for the farmers is they got it backwards. Whereever it was they came from, they have apparently returned.

I too shall return before long. Tell Honoria to prepare!

Moga


Ambushed in the Hoamavarga-Sulek Pass
(No, really!)



The Outcome: Farmers Ambushing Steppe-Riders
(300 light spears, actually)

[vonsch]

258 BC, winter:

Uncle,

There will be a slight delay in my return. The passes were open, you see, and Gava-Haomavarga was just lying there nestled amoung the snowy pines, and the troops were feeling spirited after the ambush in the pass, so we decided to drop in and greet the bandit-king. I'm sending this back now while we hoot and jeer at the garrison to encourage them to come out. Miyika, who always seems to turn up when something is about to happen, says we're overconfident, outmatched and outmanned. He's probably right. But we can hit them hard, then go. Maybe next year, or the following, we can come back with a few more men and see about some new slaves.

Miyika says they have 150 foot-archers or thereabouts, another 100 horse archers, and nearly 100 heavy lancers. That's not counting the 100 or so spears, but who counts those anyway? They are farmers! He says they are all veterans too, though your two troops are more so. Their chief, Pidanos, is more experienced in command also, he insists.

He's probably right. But we can have some fun, then straggle back to our wives. And babies? I'm assuming not, or word would have come.

Tell Honoria I won't be too much longer.

Moga


Opportunity or Idiocy?


The Young Wife who Waits, or does she?

258 BC, late winter:

My King,

I have rather astounding news. Moga, your nephew, took a snow-burr under his saddle and without orders decided to raid Gava-Haomavarga. They were outnumbered, outmanned, and outexperienced, but they made up for it with gallons of gall. What is success in a raid of this sort? From where I watched on the slope north of the town, I thought, for a fleeting moment, they had actually taken the town. Alas, it was a close defeat. They totally outmaneuvered the bandits, climbing a hill when the garrison sallied to fire down on them. With the advantage of range, they made up much of what they lacked in numbers. They slew many. When they ran out of arrows, however, the tale was sung.

Or so I thought. One of the troops ran back east for the forested slopes. Your nephew led his bodyguard in several charges on disrupted formations before fleeing off east also, with the bandit-king's bodyguard in close pursuit.

But the second troop, after feinting a withdrawal also, circled to the south and charged into the town. Unfortunately, the heavy lancers had barely enough time to make it back to drive them off. The second troop should be commended for audacity and bravery. Indeed, they nearly held the square against the heavy lancers. They did slay a small troop of the remaining horse archers who arrived first.

It was a battle to make this old man's heart glow and his hand wish for the heft of a good horn bow.

If the Bactrians do not hear of this and the weakened garrison, perhaps you can send another nephew or two to claim the town? I suspect with their bodyguards they might accomplish the deed. Or with the two troops of good archers refitted and refed, I'm sure it will fall.

I will do what I can to keep word of this from Theodotos.

Ever your servant, but rarely one more filled with pride at Sakan youth!

Miyika


Miyika's Pre-Raid Scouting Report


The Bandit-King Sorties!


The Battle from Miyika's Perch


Troop-Leader of the Second Troop Hears a Whisper of Opportunity


Alas, He Needs a Hearing Aide


257 BC, spring:

Brother and Prince,

I have word of the battle at Gava-Haomavarga. I commend my nephew's audacity and courage, but deplore his unpreparedness. Ah, youth. Put him to some unsavory task for a season to teach him the importance of following orders and planning.

I had already sent you Lokasema and Satraces since word of Theodotos continues to be prolonged maneuvers and training. Perhaps we can steal a march here, and find a way to flank him to the south through the pass. We might yet see our dream of Taksashila before it comes our turns to ride into the rising sun to greet our fathers.

I am tempted to tell you to lead this expedition yourself, but I will leave that to you, who are closer to the point of action, to decide. If you decide to go, choose the best of those three to stay as governor. It's time they learn to rule a province in any case. Don't let the grumbling make you do other than your best judgement though. The young always grumble as you well know by now. As do we old, though we mostly grumble of the young's grumblings.

All is quiet here on the steppe. I do wish our two diplomats would have more success. Mnai is as scarce as snow in midsummer on the steppe.

Tell me, how is that young wife? No son yet? Perhaps you can show her the south.

Aryandes


Miyika's Most Recent Scouting Report

[vonsch]

255 BC, fall:

Uncle,

When we arrived at Gava-Haomavarga we were met by Miyika (of course) who warned us that there was a free Eleutheroi bandit army in the area. It had been holding a bridge over in Bactria, but on word of our movement down the valley or sheer happenstance, it was moving northwest towards us. No sooner had we arrived and pitched camp above Gava-Haomavarga than the army appeared, bringing the Gava-Haomavarga garrison with it.

I must have learned something from riding pickets all last winter in the snow. I chose to withdraw back up the valley rather than fight a combined force more than five times our size. However, I did not retreat. Instead, expecting the Eleutheroi to follow us, we set an ambush up the valley in a forest.

And we ambushed them! Even so, the numbers were heavily in their favor. I had arranged one troop of riders to either side of the path, spread out to make the most of the opposrtunity. I set myself on the north side while Lokaksema and Satraces stood on the south, prepared to charge. Our plan was to engage the cavalry from both sides immediately, while the riders fired off all their arrows at any target that seemed best.

It was a long and hard battle. At one point I feared Lokaksema would be overwhelmed. Two troops of heavy lancers turned on him at the same time. I shouted for him to withdraw up the hill and then charge back, to give Satraces and myself room to hit their flanks. It was nothing so orderly, but it saved his sore feet from a long hike home.

As the afternoon wore on and we charged and charged again, or attempted to, we began wearing down their lancers. The general was commanding one of those units and when we saw his banner be all charged him. All but two of his bodyguard were slain and he turned and tried to flee. I shouted to the riders to finish him and turned to the business of slaughtering farmers.

Seeing their general ridden down by fifty riders broke the bandits' spirit. More and more began to flee. One last unit of farmers with both bow and spear tried to stand, but we three nephews of yours collected our remaining bodyguards and charged them from three sides. They dropped their weapons and begged mercy.

We have won the day!

That is not to say, I must admit, that Gava-Haomavarga is fallen to us. Our losses were grevious. But the path is open. The remaining garrison is not what the army just defeated was. And our men, our men! Now they have a real victory under their belts to follow that admirable raid of two years ago.

We return to Sulek for supplies, weapon and some riders to replace those lost. And perhaps for a bit of sonmaking, if the goddess wills it. How is Honoria? I have heard no news of sons or daughters. I hope the messenger is wandering lost.

Tell her I will come as the spring wind, suddenly, but warm and bringing the promise of new life!

Miyika insists on insinuating himself inside Gava-Haomavarga. I know not how he will do that, and I fear it may be the last we see of him. But he is confident, and who can stop Miyika? Who can even find him? He finds us!

Your obedient nephew and proud leader of mighty Sakan riders,

Moga




Too Many to Face at Once


Ambushed!


Victory! (More gratifying than most heroic victories!)

Commentary: Heh, I accidentally put Miyika into the city after the battle. It was about a 50% chance of success, so I was very lucky there. He's in, though he'll probably get booted back out.

Tough campaign! I'm lucky I didn't lose any family members. Moga really racked up experience that time. Picked up 2 stars too, so he has a base of 3 now. He has 3 more for ambushing now too and 1 for attacking. I hadn't noticed that the opposing general had that many command stars either.

I could probably hire these two archer/spear mercs, but they are expensive and I'm pretty poor still. Darned Bactria may sneak in, but my horse archers are down to half strength and that hurts. And will take a year to regen the dead bodyguard too. So doing the trip for replacements. May be a too conservative decision that I will regret.

I did want that army gone though. It's the same one that had me worried very early on up in the pass. It had been holding the bridge to the southeast against Bactrian smallish forces. So it had some experience, and a few losses from its peak strength.

I totally forgot about making screenshots during the battle. It was a bit intense. But then it was mass confusion. Ambushes tend to be that way after the first minute.


254 BC, summer:

My King and Brother,

It's always something. By now I'm sure you've heard of Moga's victory against an Eleutheroi horde. He's a few days ride to the west, still, my scouts tell me, on his way back for replacements before going back to claim Gava-Haomavarga. He doesn't know, but he'll be delayed a couple of seasons. It seems some of those Eleutheroi have followed him home. Or sprouted here. It's mostly what he calls farmers, but there are some young nobles with them. Odd. I hope this doesn't bode insurrection.

In any case, I expect it won't be until spring or early summer of next year before he's on his way to the pass. This is a larger band of bandits, and I dare not risk all with just my bodyguard and the town garrison of archers. I'm sure he will find it a refreshing change from battles against more worthy foes. And the new replacements can use the blooding.

We have no yet been blessed with children. I blame myself. Too busy to properly mount my duties as husband. And poor Honoria never sees Moga at all. At least he can say he's constantly in the saddle!

Your brother and servant,

Oxyboakes


Training Exercises

[vonsch]

254 BC, winter:

King and Brother,

Good news. Moga is off to the pass earlier than expected. The farmers decided to attack us rather than ravage the countryside, so the garrison of Sulek joine Moga and his army to crush them with ease. Moga is learning. I ordered him to keep the replacement troops out of the line of fire and battle, but to circle and shoot from a distance. "Let them taste blood, but not shed their own." He did perfectly. The Sulek archers stood their ground and accepted the farmer's charge while Lokaksema and Satraces ground up the young nobles between them. Then I charged the farmers' rear. They broke and ran. The riders slew many with their bows and lost not a horse.

So Moga is off ahead of schedule with two full troops of well-blooded riders and his two cousins. I am confident that they can take Haomavarga from Miyika's continuing reports.

Of concern is Miyika's information that Baktria is besieging Kophen to the south. There is little information on the size of the force involved, or its chance of success. Seeing that fall into Theodotos's dirty hands would dim our dream of seeing Taksashila before we see again our father. We would need to risk war with Baktria to slip an army past, or go to war to take it from them. Perhaps we should think on raiding some Baktrian cities farther north. Miyika says they have small garrisons as Theodotos does not fear us. Perhaps if we burn several he will. Perhaps he will even pay tribute.

Another matter of concern is whisperings come to my ears of words Moga has spoken. I fear his heart is not true Sakan. I have asked both Miyika and the troop-leader of the second troop, who is indeed a fine man, to listen and watch. We must think of putting Moga somewhere far from Theodotos and his spies.

I hope to report the fall of Haomavarga ere this season next year. But, knowing Miyika, you would probably have heard of it first, as you probably already have most of this.

Ah, that battle outside Sulek did these old bones good! My bony rear aches for the saddle, but my duties to you see that it aches mostly from this stool on which I perch.

Ever your servant, brother king!

Oxyboakes





253 BC, fall:

Yabghu!

I send word that Moga has reached Haomavarga. He is resting the army before attacking. When I left he was hoping to attack in the snows.

Now for the interesting news. Kophen has not fallen to the Baktrians! However, that is not good tidings, in fact. I arrived there to discover a small Seleukid garrison of phalangitai. I fear to take the pass to Taksashila, as I know you wish, will require war with the great empire.

Perhaps Arta can convince Theodotos to ally with you and turn on the Seleukids. I suspect it is exceedingly unhealthy for Theodotos of Baktria to have the great empire expand further. Meanwhile, I believe I shall move into Kophen and see if I can arrange some difficulties for the garrison. As I said, it is small. It may be that taxes are not yet high and the local population can be stirred without the garrison having the recourse of free grain to appease them.

You might also consider seeking more spies. I am no longer young and I am but one man. With the empire moving east, it might be best to have several of us along the frontiers, even in the empire itself. Perhaps we can cause disturbances to turn their eyes back west. Markets are good places for finding those with the necessary skills to become useful in my capacity. And I think Gava-Saka would be a fine location for a market.

I shall remain here until I see what trouble I can stir, then I shall head back north to see where Theodoros has gone, if anywhere. I have neither seen nor heard anything of him in years.

Miyika





Miyika's Report on the Garrison at Haomavarga


Mikiya's Situation Report on the South


253 BC, winter:

Yabghu and Uncle,

From the hilltop above Haomavarga I look down upon its garrison. They huddle in the square against the cold, or us. I have sent Satraces and Lokaksema down to see if they might invite some out. I will write as I watch, until I must join battle. I will finish that after, if the good of battles so wills.

A full unit of skirsmishers awaited on the outskirts of town. Satraces circled to the right along the base of the hill, Lokaksema approached from the left. I signaled both troops of riders to ride down into range and loose two volleys as the skirmishers ran forward to try to close with Satraces. He turned his bodyguard and charged them head on! Then Lokaksema sounded the charge and charged into their rear. Like that it was over. Both nephews of yours chased them to the edge of town. I think I saw two men run towards the city square.

A troop of horse skirmishers, those with the throwing spears, rode out to meet them. I shouted for the nephews to withdraw. I will try to draw those horse into range of the riders before we charge them too. I prefer to battle them away from the streets if possible. Charges are very difficult in those windy, crowded paths!

If I cannot carve them down enough, I shall withdraw to camp and come again in the spring. Then I will force them to come to me all at once.

But that is if I cannot draw them out now.

The horse skirmishers flee back to the square. Perhaps the riders can draw them out with arrows. That worked very nicely. They came out to meet the riders, and met the rider of death himself. As the riders rode back to the hill, shooting over their shoulders, every single one of their horse skirmishers died.

Now to draw out the horse archers myself. That worked nearly perfectly, though it cost me a couple good men. We drew them to the base of the hill, drawing their arrows, as the riders shot at them, then turned and charged. Satraces and Lokaksema approached from the flank and rear and charged also. Again, two escaped. I had told the riders to conserve their arrows.

Now a small formation of archers with spears huddles at the edge of the town. We shall have to draw its eyes again, and let the riders slip into arrow range. Ah, there are two units of them now, good. None escaped of the first group. The second pulled back into the streets too quickly. We offer our backs to them to show how we despise their cowardice. Perhaps that will enrage them. They mill about, gathering courage. Now the riders move into range and begin fire. Charge! And they are slain to the man! And the two horse skirmishers who escaped us earlier are also. They came to try to assist the cowardly archers.

What remains is heavy lancers, and... I cannot tell from here. I think it is two formations of heavy lancers and a few foot. Though are losses are very few thus far, I fear we will lose more in the battle for the square. Damn those streets!

I will send the riders around the side, perhaps they can find an angle to use their arrows on the square. Mayhap even draw out those lancers. Satraces will take the south entrance, the riders the west and myself and Lokaksema the east. The lancers, stung by the arrows of the riders, give chase! It is finished! Twelve lancers came back to the squard of the sixty that rode out. We lost eleven men and we will pasture the rest of the winter in Haomavarga!

On to Baktria!

From the Haomagarva square I send you these news,

Moga, Hero of Haomavarga

p.s. Satraces banned me from the town until things have quieted. It seems the populace is unhappy with me for gods know what reason. I liberated them from bandits! I should have sacked the town, or simply killed all these farmer fools.


Bandit-Kings are overrated as generals



Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!



They forgot to skirmish...Charge!



The hunt begins!



A bloody trail of dead horses... and fools.



More fools give chase.



We have them now, turn and charge home!



Sharing the feast of blood.



The fate of archers and spearmen who stand before the mighty Saka!



Lancers milling about as they are encircled.



Riders inviting lancers to a party.



The Return of the Lancers



High Noon Midwinter.



Bring Out Your Virgins! err... Our Virgins!



Paying the price of the party.

[vonsch]

252 BC, summer:

Yabghu, Brother,

These revolting farmers are pests. Again four troops of them and their spears, and with them more disloyal young 'nobles.' I feared the town archers would not be able to put this down without help, so I've begun training on two troops of Saka Riders. I know not when Moga will be able to return the first and second troop of Samaratae riders. Their experience is missed.

But perhaps these can blood on the farmers and begin to earn their tassles. The day we ride west is not long off, I think. Or south, as you will it.

Miyika reports the peasants revolt in Kophen, but the garrison yet holds it. Mayhap Moga could lead the riders there and snatch that from the empire. Aye, it would mean war, and we have, as yet, few riders. But we have a few more with these two troops!

Shafar too sends word that the empire's belly is fat and lazy. The garrisons are small and the riches are large. Oh that the old fool Theodotos of Baktria would ally with us! What a hunt we could have in the west!

I sent Honoria off to Haomavarga. Satraces will not allow Moga to enter the town. The peasants threaten to revolt if he returns after the small incident in the town square with the virgins. I thought it best that he occupy himself with his own wife. He needs sons.

My own is doing well, nigh three winters have passed since Ssandramata blessed us. We pray and make offerings for more. Indeed, she blesses Sulek as well. We now number 4000 here! Enough to train many riders.

Might you not turn Gava-Sake over to Tavrak and take saddle here? We could ride together south. We might take Kophen, if Moga has not yet, and ride east from there to at least see the fabled walls of Taksashila! I hear rumor of even greater cities to the south, but I know not their names. The Silk Road merchants are gossipmongers of the worst sort. Or the best sort.

What word from Chighu? I hear tell our brother Zeionises rides no more. He claims a desire to "settle." I am told there are nigh 5000 Saka there now. Will he make a city?

Give Sangamika and Tavrak my well-wishes.

Oxyboakes


Harvesting Farmers


251 BC, spring:

Brother Prince,

Baktria may be up to tricks. Have you seen border incursions in the south? As I pen this a troop of Baktrian skirmishers camps just into the region here, far south. Tavrak is there watching and letting them know that we know. Meanwhile, I have dispatched two fresh young spies to Bin-Kath to see what they can learn. Early reports are that no buildup is in evidence. Perhaps I will have them try to stir revolt to keep Theodotos (or perhaps his son?) otherwise occupied.

Miyika reports that he had little success in fomenting a full revolt in Kophen. He did succeed in costing the garrison some men before the revolts were put down. My last report from him said he was moving along the southern border checking for movements of the empire or Baktria. His aim is to pass through the capital and then check Theodotos's training camp. We have no work of a succession, but Theodotos has not been sighted for many years.

Send news when you have it. Put down that farmer revolt and get those new troops of Saka Riders trained! We may have need of them very soon. And if you have the spare mnai from those greedy Silk Road merchants, build towers to help watch the passes.

I hear word of a second son. I hope mother and son are both well. Good, we need a new generation of leaders bred and trained. Ours grows old, and the next, our sons, is a bit disappointing, despite their brashness. If only Moga knew the meaning of loyalty he might promise more. As a fighter he does well indeed. But the incident of the square demonstrates his weakness.

Aye, wise to send Honoria to him. Perhaps she can saddle him and ride him into some sense of order.

Aryandes


Report from Tavrak


251 BC, summer

Yabghu, Brother,

Theodotos has emerged. He is indeed up to tricks. His appearance in the pass with a large army bodes ill for Sulek or Haomavarga. A season will tell us which.

I tire of this stool in any case. Helping Lokaksema put down those farmers did me good. I am ready to take saddle and ride, if he comes this way. We will take what merchant goods we can, and our herds, and ride your way. Or perhaps ride to Baktra. If Miyika sends word the garrison is weak, mayhap we can repay Theodotos in kind ten times over. How are the northern garrisons?

Satraces sends word a small Baktrian force has appeared in the valley there too. It is nothing, he says. Moga is ready to brush it into the river on your orders or if they foolishly attack. If it is war with Theodotos, I told Moga to ride west and burn what he likes. If Theodotos turns on Haomavarga instead of coming here, Satraces will also ride west. After, of course, burning the town and taking what he can of value.

What need we of towns, eh? We have horses and tents.

Ride south, Brother, let us hunt together!

Oxyboakes




The Tyrant of Bactria and his Army



Oxyboakes Map



Report from Satraces

[vonsch]

251 BC, winter:

Oxyboakes, Brother Prince,

If you haven't already already seen the proof yourself, we are at war. That band of Bactrians in the north attacked Tavrak without warning. Though he insists he hates those clever-clever Greeks, I think he was rather pleased. He handled them in a fashion to make Moga take notice.

I do think I shall ride out. I will leave some archers to hold Gava-Sake and ride south to see what I can find to amuse these old bones with. Perhaps I might burn a city or two. I would prefer a troop or two of riders, but I know not if I wish to wait for some to be trained. Mayhap the can meet me in the south. Or you can if you come west and north.

We ride, my brother, we ride! Let the wind of the ride blow the stink of these towns from our nostrils! The the thunder of hoofs silence the whining of farmers and traders!

Ride for plunder and glory!

Aryandes


From Tavrak's report:


A Beautiful Day to Start a War



Charge!



Look, second from the left, he's pissed himself!



Run away!



And Again, Sakans!



A Favorable Outcome

[vonsch]

250 BC, fall:

Uncle,

As it happened, Theodotos's move southwest to Haomavarga was a feint. Or he changed his mind. But Haomavarga has been abandoned to the Baktrians all the same. Small loss. We left a band of archers that could not keep up to do their best to hold it, but Miyika reports a smaller army of Baktrians came up the south pass and slew most of them (the rest are fled to the hills) and took the town. We had sacked it as we left, so I'm sure they found little there to feed them. Perhaps the winter will freeze them out.

Miyika also reports that Lokaksema and the two troops of Saka Riders tried, at first, to take the pass northwest, but were driven back by a sizeable Baktrian army, one about half the size of Theodotos's. He tried to ambush Theodotos in the high pass, but failed as the Baktrians swung to the north and avoided the forest. So he again turned northwest and is now moving west towards Alexandreia-Eschate. That smaller army preceeds him, so be wary.

I hear tidings that you have seized Bin-Kath! That will surely give Theodotos pause. He comes for a small town we only recently freed from bandits, and you sieze a city from him!

Miyika also says that he had word from Uncle Oxyboakes of his plans. If Theodotos continues east towards Sulek, he will take what riders he has trained and sack the town and head northwest towards you through the north passes.

I say take the three cities there there along the river. Sack them. Then see if Theodotos begs peace. If not, we can move west. There are other pastures.

I am just north of Baktra. The garrison there is too large for my troops. We intend to move north towards you also, ambushing any Baktrians who stumble over us.

Your nephew,

Moga



Last Stand at Haomavarga



If you must die, take one with you to tend your horses



The Sacking of Bin-Kath







World Sitrep 250 BC


249 BC, winter:

My King and Uncle,

I fear I committed an error. I miscalculated my march and was caught exposed by that smaller army west of Eschate. Some good men died. But it was not a loss, in the end. Despite being heavily outnumbered, we managed to kill their general, and most of their horses. As a result I think I will tempt them to attack again. We can kill a few more. Mayhap even enough to whittle them down to a twig that will snap in the end.

I hear rumor that Theodotos bypassed Sulek and seems to be headed to Chighu. That is not bad news, I think. It give us more time to sack his cities. But perhaps it is yet another feint of some sort. These Greeks are tricksy.

I go to my tent as I am worn from today's battle. It was prolonged. When we ran out of arrows, and had killed all their horses, we led the poor fools afoot a merry chase until they gave up and marched back to their camp. But it was wearying on horses and riders.

I hope to see you soon, perhaps in Eschate? Theodotos is a fool. He should be fighting that Seleucid empire, not us. But we shall profit from his foolishness, and shall drink his wines and bed his daughters!

Next year in Baktra!

Your nephew and loyal subject,

Lokaksema



Killing Baktrian Horses so Good Sakans Can Live to Fight Again!



The Men Called it Victory, I Called it Relief


Commentary: And my two spies in Alexandreia-Eschate got the gates opened, but when we tried to enter the world ended... CTD. *crossing fingers that a reload works.* I suspect it's a memory leak issue. I am running a browser in the background and haven't exitted RTW all day.

Reload worked.


249 BC, Spring:

Oxyboakes,

How sits that stool? I hear you have not yet taken to saddle? Where is our little Theodotos? Weeping in the hills for his lost cities?

Aye, cities. I know by now you have heard tell of how Tavrak and I decided to visit the south, and happened to visit Bin-kath on the way? Well, that was but the beginning. I write this from Alexandreia-Eschate, where Lokaksema has joined me. After dealing that wandering army of Theodotos a slap, he slipped them and rode west to join me in entering the gates here. Our young spies did well, penetrating the city and when we arrived, unbarring the gates. What good are these walls, I ask you, if they cannot keep out barbarians such as us! I fear I am having foul dreams for taking my revenge on Theodotos on these sad people. But we were few and they were very many, so we risked much in not slaying a good portion before they counted our horses and decided we were not enough to rule them. We have burned some of the Greek buildings, but we await Theodotos's reaction before thoroughly sacking the city. It might be a nice prize to keep a while. It has mines that provide good metal. There is a smithy in Bin-kath that could use it to make us some very nice arms, I am certain. If the smith hasn't fled. I should have him chained to his anvil before he things to sneak away.

But that is not all the good tidings. That Hero of Haomavarge, as he has called himself, will choose a new title, I expect. He and Satraces, and the two troops of good Sarmatian riders stole a march north and slipped through the opened (spies are worth every mnai!) of Marakanda. They had a brisk altercation in the square with one of Theodotos's brats and some light horse, but nothing those hardened scrappers couldn't handle with a broken bowhand. So we hold what were three Baktrian cities. Need we more, think you?

The capital looks to be a more serious task. There is an army much of the sort Lokaksema slapped and slipped garrisoning there. I am not anxious to ride horses into a mass of spears in those miserable, muddy city streets. We could, of course, send Moga back north to reclaim 'his' town. I hear rumor of another city to the northwest, but I know it not. It may be Theodotos has a son in an outpost there. Were I sure the capital and Haomavarga were all that are left of his little satrapy, I would dare risk those streets of Baktra simply to finish him for his treachery. To think I wished to call him friend!

I doubt that Moga and Satraces can hold their city. There is rumor the people are mighty angry. I told them to hire some local troops, those spear and archer types, and see if they could keep control. The mines there make it worth controlling as long as we can.

I am dispatching Hasa your way to try to track Theodotos. If he is indeed heading to Chighu, they much be warned to pull up their tent stakes and take to saddle. If that is the case it will serve Zeionises well, that lazy lout. But I shall let him come settle in one of these cities, if he wishes. We can make them our own little satrapies, I suppose.

I must find Miyika and learn what is what. I don't know what we'd do without that man. Invaluable is too faint a praise. I will give him my best horse, I think. Not only does he deserve it, but it will serve me well to have him get about even faster!

Taksashila is not out of our grasp! Be prepared to come this way before long, I think. But first we must finish with Theodotos.

Aryandes


Commentary: Heh, these cities are MUCH nicer for income. Went from about 7000 per turn income to 40000. And that's mostly on low taxes still! Or maybe some of that is the sacking. Still, I know these cities are richer simply because they have mines. Who cares if Theodotos takes some tent city in the boondocks? He's welcome! I just need one somewhere where I can make my horse archers, and Bin-Kath can do that right now. But I think I now have a border with the Seleukids. That's worrisome. I'm not yet that well off, nor sure I can hold these cities against counterattack from Baktra. But this position is much more defensible since each city is one march from the other two. I went from exterior lines to interior lines. Maybe I'll build more riders at Sulek and hound ol' Theodotos to death.



Caution: Spies at Work



Party at Theo's Place!



A Son Sets



Dreams of Blood... and Mnai!



The Heros of Haomavarga in New Conquests



Okay, Now to Pacify this Place!

[vonsch]

249 BC, summer:

Yabghu, Brother,

We have abandoned Sulek to Theodotos. After turning north, he turned again south. We met him on a hill outside Sulek in the spring, but the tricky Greek came up behind us, not before us, so we lost what advantage of position we'd hoped to obtain to help offset his far superior numbers. Still, the riders and archers did well, bleeding him nicely. But we were forced to withdraw. He still has over 1000 men in his army and was a week's march from Sulek, so we sacked it, packed our tents and rode north into the hills across the river. When we see his next move, we will decide where we go first.

If he turns north I go to see if I can't reclaim Haomavarga. If he turns your way, I may dog his heels some. He has far too many archers for me to dare much, but I can make some cuts.

A small garrison of archers remained in case he again changed his mind, but I can see dust above Sulek, so I presume it taken. Yes, word has just come. The archers died well, killing three times their number.

I will either see you soon, or send word where I have gone.

Ever your servant,

Oxyboakes



Last Stand at Sulek



The Archers Died Well



Oxyboakes's Battle Report of Chighu


249 BC, winter:

Uncle,

The Baktrians besiege us here in Marakanda. It is amusing. When we ride out to meet them, they run away. When we ride back in, they return. But each time the pay with a few dozen men, so we will enjoy the sport until they run out.

I'm uncertain that I like these wall things. They prevent the riders and kataphracts from easily deploying. And they block the archers' view of the field. But they do stop some of the cold wind from the north, so they aren't entirely bad.

If you have any riders that need blooding, send them our way. We should have some sport for them for a season or two.

Moga, the Besieged



248 BC, summer:

Yabghu,

Sad news. Somehow Theodotos managed to amass an army and sneak it through the pass to Chighu. By the time it was spotted it was too late to evacuate the settlement. Your brother and his son and son-in-law died heros, fighting to the last.

Miyika



The Last Charge at Chighu



Miyika's Chighu Battle Report

Commentary: Okay, AI pulled a fast one on me somehow. A large army appears at Chighu and I can't see how it could have been created or moved without turning up on my radar at all. So gonna lose Chighu without a chance to reclaim some mnai. And lose three family members there. It's odd. There was a Eleutheroi stack of 2 HA just out front too. It's gone. Never saw an attack on it. I'm curious, I think I will revert to a save and see what is going on. Well, the Baktrian army is standing there. I suspect the game engine decided the Eleutheroi was not out of FOW and didn't show me the combat when the army arrived. But where it came from and how it snuck through I don't know. No saves to backtrack that far. It's not a disaster, just a shocker. Heh, almost reversed regions with Baktria now. If they take Gava-Saka (not hard) and I take Baktra, we will have flip-flopped positions. Except I think they have a region or two disconnected to the west.

Maybe that stack has been hiding in the valley for a decade or more. Theodotos's army did that. One lesson learned anyway. Don't leave several family members just parked in the same rear area region doing nothing. Makes them too vulnerable to sneak attacks.

Oh, and the sacking was indeed reflected in income. Earning about 10000 per season now, not 40000. Still much better.



248BC, fall:

Yabghu and Brother,

After crossing the pass to the west from Sulek, I paused to sack Haomavarga. The Baktrian garrison was not large, just some spears. The two troops of Sarmatian riders that I bring got some experience with their bows. We had three losses. The Baktrian had done little improvement beyond their usual satrapy headquarters. There was a temple to some Greek false god which we destroyed also.

I ride on towards Baktra itself. Depending on the garrison I may tease it a bit. Or may ambush any Baktrian troops I find along the way. If no good opportunities arise, I shall cross the ridge north and find you in one of your new cities.

I think I will leave Haomagarva to the bandits. If I hire some archers to defend it, the taxes will not cover the expense. And the bandits will cause the Baktrians more pain than a few hired archers.

Oh! Have you heard that Theodotos is dead? Yes, they have a new leader now. I hear he was seen riding with only his bodyguards in the pass. I hope he comes this way. I would introduce myself.

Oxyboakes



The New Baktrian Tyrant



The Second Sacking of Haomavarga



Oxyboakes's Battle Report of the Second Sacking of Haomavarga



Current Maps of Saka Pasturage

[Morte66]

"If you die, take someone with you to tend you horses" :)

I love the way you've swapped places with Bactria.

A thought: if you kill all the family members, the faction ends and all their remaining cities go rebel.

[keravnos]

Very interesting AAR! Do Keep Going!

As the new Co-FC for Saka, (Persian Cataphract is the other FC), I am watching this closely. Once you finish, I would appreciate it if you gave a "heads-up" account of your conquests, what you liked, what you didn't, or keep doing that amid your posts.

There are some things that need to change.

Back to AAR now,

(I found that KOing Bactria early on was the only way Sakae could rule suppreme!)

[The Errant]

Great AAR. Finally someone doing a number on a steppe faction.

Poor Bactrians. Exchanging rich civilized greek poleis for poor steppe provinces. Idiots.

[vonsch]

Very interesting AAR! Do Keep Going!

As the new Co-FC for Saka, (Persian Cataphract is the other FC), I am watching this closely. Once you finish, I would appreciate it if you gave a "heads-up" account of your conquests, what you liked, what you didn't, or keep doing that amid your posts.

There are some things that need to change.

Back to AAR now,

(I found that KOing Bactria early on was the only way Sakae could rule suppreme!)

I suspected that was the case when I saw their victory conditions. I didn't expect the depth of Greek perfidy that I've met though. I have no idea how they stole that march on Chighu. Or maybe I do, but it surprised me.

Do we know if there's something driving the rebel spawn in RTW? Those repeated stacks at Sulek are annoying. Is it due to me not clearing the fow with towers? Or is it something I have no control over (except modding the rate of spawn down?)

I like some spawn, I just like some control with my choices in play. (But it's true that I'm a control freak.)


My impression of the start is it feels pretty slow due to abject poverty. But I should really play another start or three before I say that. Two isn't much of a data set, and my only EB comparison is Casse, though that also has a reputation of being a slow start. It takes a long time to be able to afford enough troops to have much chance of a conquest, or that's the impression a newish Saka player will have. Yet the demographics historically were apparently driving the Saka to new ranges, no? So they weren't short on manpower with training, they were short on lebensraum (or for them, more accurately, I suspect, pasturage). So it's ahistorical to feel the dilemma "I" do: going very far into the red, so far the hole seems unfillable,or killing off my own people. Conquer or starve is okay, and the current situation sort of models it, but it would be much nicer if we had the horde mechanism to use.

But that would mean new victory conditions too, because the BI hording would make it pretty easy... unless it was toned down in number of units per population point. Having no upkeep units when you own no cities (and getting rid of the insta-death from losing your current last city) would make it feel more nomadic.

But that's wishing on a swap to BI.exe. (Which appears very doable, I must say, since I'm playing with it with only what appears to be a very occasional memory leak-related crash.)


If I'm right in my conjecture that the player can build pastoralism first and get the benefits of the permanent structures (roads, granaries, farms, I've identified thus far... presumably since they are permanent and the nomads have to be able to capture those from other cultures), that's going to channel player action except in cases where players abide by strict "house rules." It makes sense otherwise to role-play a splinter group that is tending to pastoral as the driving force for their expansion into new/civilized lands. That leading edge builds some infrastructure, then is forced to move on and those expanding behind (and pushing them on and out) revert to nomadism, but with those trappings of civilization in place. It's no breaker of the fiction, but I predict it will become the way to play nomads. Start with pastoralism always, get at least road and basic farms built, then scrap Pastoralism when the 2000mnai is available and "revert" to Nomadism for the basic units that make nomads mobile and appropriately raiderish.

I'm not crazy about being so dependent on family bodyguards, especially in early play. It feels a bit cheesy to have to use them to conquer cities and play garrison (though those are mostly governors, so garrison is in fact okay). I think if that has to be the case, I'd prefer horse archer units as bodyguards. Make them more vulnerable (not tanks!), though not as brittle as the basic HA units, but give them a bow for more finess and the need to hit and run and wear down the garrison with turns of arrow fire before daring to melee/charge the remaining defenders. But I suspect there's a better balance in maintenance costs somehow. I'm not sure that the "forager" trait does enough. This might also mean that nomadic family members don't get negative traits for hit-and-run style activities. As long as they do some damage, they should not get negative traits for retreating. (I think I've seen the morale drop... some of that is okay, but it should be less than other factions to simulate to normal willingness of using retreat as a tactic for nomads especially.)

I presume that the forager trait triggers on the family member itself being on a tile it can devastate. I'm guessing there is no way to account for the "ordinary" units in the same condition. So the kickback in maintenance is some flat amount for each family member. That means those can be effectively "free" of maintenance (though the exact amount is probably not knowable, so it's a rough figure per each member). So running raiding groups of JUST family members is probably the most profitable, with very lean (and cheap!) garrisons where regions must be held. As it stands, that means no "signature" units: horse archers. That's sort of a negative incentive from a gaming perspective to play them historically. Making the family units horse archers would help with the feel.

But I found the same family unit behavior required to a degree with the Casse. It's not just the nomads driven to using family member "stacks" to avoid red ink. The Casse chariots are FAR more brittle, however, which discourages too much of it. Poverty requires some of it.

But the "normal" army units are not low maintenance when out raiding enemy lands. And the core raiding units are not anything resembling cheap. Slinger units, in comparison, are dirt cheap for other factions as starter units. And they seem to have more ammo. And they are smaller targets, though a bit less mobile. But they often have AP too. I'd like to see the HA units cheaper in upkeep as they are the normal nomadic units raised by a relatively poor base. More comparable to slingers. But the mercenary versions, and those that can be hired by non-nomadic cultures should remain as they are. The benefit of cheap upkeep should be available only to factions for which those are truly organic units. This might mean some exclusive-to-each-nomadic faction units are low upkeep, but the more "generic" ones that others can train are not.

So, yeah, I think I would prefer bows on the bodyguard, and slightly lower defensive stats. Offensively in melee and charges they aren't overpowered, they are just so darned hard to kill. My king's brother at Chighu was still going strong when the town square timer ended it. He could have killed another 100 or so otherwise. It just wasn't very feasible to fight cavalry defensively in the streets against pikes, so I kept them all out in the fields where they could kill off as many Baktrians as possible. I am guessing his morale bonuses made him a lot tougher than his grandsons. They died off more easily. But that may have been bad luck too. One went fast when he got stuck in a mass of infantry. The other surived that alone, the rest of his guard died, to return to the square and fight to the death there alone.

Some of the more expensive "noble" HA units would make good choices for bodyguard, I think.

Towers are horrendously expensive for Saka. 4000 is a lot of mnai for nomads. Baktria would not have stolen that march on me if towers were 500 each. Probably not if they were 1000. I built one tower in the most strategic pass as it was, and doing so really hurt. Considering my income is about 10000 now, and maintenance is eating 7000 of that with my total forces not equalling a stack, AND as a result my inability to hold conquests for long, the only way my Saka will have towers is if they capture regions with towers. Which may be somewhat reasonable. But I would think they would have a better network of scouts. Spies too are expensive in upkeep. Can nomadic spies be cheaper since they can forage... as long as they are NOT in cities? If they move in, they should pay the usual amount (city livin' isn't cheap!) I'd think that might be doable via the rebate system used for the forager trait. Diplomats shouldn't work that way though. They have to be more civilized. Kick back 50 mnai for spies not in a city. That will let nomads have two for the upkeep price of one civilized spy, as long as they are in a scout role, not actually setting up networks in towns. The training cost will still put a burden on using them to spam cities... as will the increased upkeep while they are IN the city.

Even better would be an actual "scout" agent type to fit this role for nomads. They could be less effective in the "inside" roles, but cheaper across the board. Not sure the engine will allow different success rates for different agent types though. The anti-FOW function fires off the same skill as the "spying" functions, so simply tweaking down the starting skill for scouts wouldn't work. Or does it? There is clearly some trait the family members get (or ancilliaries) that lifts the range of the anti-FOW function. Maybe a scout could be a very low skill "spy" (negative spy skill to start, so almost impossible to improve into a real spy) that's born with an uber anti-FOW ancilliary?


It seems to me that the Saka foot archers should have anti-cav spears too. They should be trained in fighting cav as they would mostly defend against cav out in the steppes. They are currently more expensive than those generic spear+archer mercenaries in upkeep, enough so that I now hire the mercs as the difference in training cost is paid back in two seasons. I'd rather use Sakan garrisons for RP reasons, though. I think the upkeep cost should be the same as those, or lower, than the mercenary spear+archer units. Foot archers are not useful raiders (except maybe in heavily forested areas where slower moving stacks can stay "invisible" more) so it would not drive me to large stacks of foot-archers as raiders. I want horse archers for that role. If the foot archers are given spears and their melee dropped versus infantry as a result of the spear penalty there, wouldn't that be more historical? If they should be better versus infantry too, uptweak the attack a little to adjust for the spear penalty. Or did nomadic foot types not use spears? In the cases in which I have personal experience, the spear and bow are the nomadic culture's weapons of choice. (My experience is with South American jungle nomads though... long bow, long arrows, shortish spear.)