Capo di Tutti Capi - II - delayed

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Apologies all! 44 players after less than 24 hours of open sign-up is very flatterting.

Unfortunately, a family illness will delay this game from 2-4 weeks. I'm working with Andres on the best means of handling this.

During the hiatus, go ahead and recruit more folks if you can.



Sign ups have now opened.

44 Current Players (listed alpha'):

Alexander the Pretty Good
Andres
Beefy187
Byzantine Mercenary
CountArach
Crazed Rabbitt
Destroyer of Hope
Don Corleone
Dutch Guy
Garcilaso de la Vega el Inca
Greaterkhaan
Haudegan
Husar
Ichigo
JimBob
Jubal Barca
Kagemusha
Kal'Motep
Killfr3nzy
Kings Hand
Kommodus
Odin
Omanes Alexandropolites
Orb
Pannonian
pevergreen
pra the funkee homo sapien
Proletariat
Roadkill
Sapi
Sarathos
Sasaki Kojiro
scottishranger
Shlin28
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Stig
TheStranger
Tiberius of the Drake
Tran
Twilightblade
Warluster
Warmaster Horus
Woad & Fangs
Xdeathfire



Please feel free to review the rules below (post #36) and provide commentary. I will open a new information thread when the game opens and the final list of players and rule set will be posted therein.


Scheduling Note:

Game should begin ??? depending on r/l, sign-up speed and role dispatch time. Any changes will be noted quickly.

I try to run each phase in 24 hour increments. While it is hard to predict any final time pharase for the overall game, a reasonable expectation would be two weeks of play from start.

[Caius]

First!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Thanks for the interest, but hold off my friend!

[Csargo]

[Caius]

Thanks for the interest, but hold off my friend!

Just wanted to be the first

[Crazed Rabbit]

/In.

I suggest adding some of Sasaki's rules from Kung Fu Mafia involving the dead talking and communication.

CR

[Tran]

Sign me up

[Motep]

Capo II, eh? Nice...

may your game be blessed with multitudes of weird players to make the game interesting

I will be one of them

[Csargo]

Well Seamus you kinda have to post what your thinking for us to give you feedback

[CountArach]

I'll join, but it looks like Signing up hasn't started.

[TevashSzat]

Ill join but be warned that Im gonna go on vacation until friday

[Seamus Fermanagh]

A fair point Ichigo. Xdeath, the game isn't for weeks yet and official sign-up is a ways off.

In general, I will follow the same basic style as last time. Groups coordinating efforts, investigations that are less than perfectly accurate, multiple families of mafioso competing with one another as well as the town. COmments based on last game will be helpful. Other new thoughts I post in here (see below in this post).

I'll put revision ideas in here for feedback and -- eventually -- replace post #1 with the full rules or start an independent info thread as the game begins and allow this one to drop after sign-ups.

CR, I did not do the fu, so I will look it up and see if these should be added in. Thanks for the tip.

For now:

First Major Revision – Victory System

I am planning to use a points system with a 200 max points possible per player. These would be individual to the roles. The goals of such a system would be to allow for multiple “winners” based on quality/luck of play and to encourage appropriate participation after death. For example:

Townsperson:

Overall Victory: 100 points for a townie win.

Personal Survival: 25 points.

Night Actions: 50 points (maximum) for:
15 points each for each Don killed as part of a “vigilante” group
10 points each for each Made or Luca killed as part of a “vigilante” group
5 points each for each Wise Guy killed as part of a “vigilante” group
-5 points for each townie killed as part of a “vigilante” group
-10 points for each Detective/Doctor or like pro-townie role killed as part of a “vigilante” group
10 points for each townie saved as part of a “protection” group
3 points for each wise guy saved as part of a “protection” group
-5 points for each mafioso saved as part of a “protection” group

Voting Participation: 25 points (maximum) for:
3 points for voting for a Mafioso to be lynched
0 points for voting for a Wise Guy to be lynched
-1 point for voting for a Townie (any role) to be lynched
-2 points for not voting at all in a lynch vote
- 5 points for voting "present" in 5 or more lynch votes



First Minor Revision

Voting: I'll be allowing the following votes:

For Director: Select ________, Select Vacant, Present.

For Lynches: Vote ________, No Lynch, Abstain, Present.


A named vote is obvious,

"vacant" is to leave the director position vacant and have chief Seamus run those two lynches,

"no lynch" means that you want nobody to be lynched that round [if this choice has the plurality, there is no lynch that round],

"abstain" means that you want someone lynched but have no particular preference as to who [note: if abstains outnumber no lynches in a round, the player with the highest vote score will be lynched],

and

"present" which simply indicates that you have voted so as to avoid the not vote penalty.

[Stig]

All I can say is:
Don't make it too difficult, afterall this is just a forumgame and people visit here every now and then. Something with really complicated rules will put people off and CdTC needs about 50 players to be fun ... seeing last time.

[Orb]

Can't wait. The first CDTC was the single most involving game I've played in a long while.

Plus, I got the only ever non-defeat for a serial killer so far at the .org.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I'll re-enter the Org Mafia Arena for this.

[woad&fangs]

IIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone who wants to get this game started faster should join the Il Padrino Mafia game so we can get that started. Once that game finishes we can start this one YYYYYYYYYYIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pannonian]

All I can say is:
Don't make it too difficult, afterall this is just a forumgame and people visit here every now and then. Something with really complicated rules will put people off and CdTC needs about 50 players to be fun ... seeing last time.

I agree. Shunt the scoring to one side, or don't give us the specifics. Leave the rules as they were last time, with differences in bold. Have a spoilered list of offences that will lead to modkills. Capo is complicated enough as it is, don't drown us in details.

[Andres]

All I can say is:
Don't make it too difficult, afterall this is just a forumgame and people visit here every now and then. Something with really complicated rules will put people off and CdTC needs about 50 players to be fun ... seeing last time.

I agree as well. Don't make the game too difficult or complicated. It will lead to misinterpretations, alot of questions about the game mechanics, too much creative circumventions of the rules and some people might just lose intrest because of the over-complexitiy.

It has to maintain a certain degree of simplicity to keep it fun.

Just my

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Okay. I will develop the scoring systems so that I can publish a "graded" evaluation for each player at the conclusion of the game.

I will include a copy of the townsperson's score sheet in the rules posting to give individuals a "flavor" for the scoring system. Their individual roles will merely list those things that are of value for them -- but no details so as to minimize clutter.

Sasaki, as is often his wont, has summarized the permissable actions of the dead pretty well. My game, and the new scoring, will encourage continued participation, but no reveals, no claims, no quoting of PMs, no recounting of night actions, partnerings and the like will be permitted of the dead. The dead may analyze based on material posted in the thread but may provide no other information to which they have been made privy. As with all game-related interaction, this rule is to hold sway in all formats and locations...even face-to-face. I will Mod-kill savagely to enforce this -- taking out the partners of the offender as well if necessary to get my point across. This is the one thing that marred my game last time.

Note: I'm leaning toward the following at this time

Though the players will not be made privy to the specifics, night actions will be a product of a "combat" system that will generate certain kinds of results based on the relative strengths of the individuals involved. There will be some chance for success with teams that are "short" in numbers to succeed -- though the risks of failure will be greater and there will be some small advantage in using more resources (people) then necessary.

Thoughts?

[Pannonian]

Okay. I will develop the scoring systems so that I can publish a "graded" evaluation for each player at the conclusion of the game.

I will include a copy of the townsperson's score sheet in the rules posting to give individuals a "flavor" for the scoring system. Their individual roles will merely list those things that are of value for them -- but no details so as to minimize clutter.

Sasaki, as is often his wont, has summarized the permissable actions of the dead pretty well. My game, and the new scoring, will encourage continued participation, but no reveals, no claims, no quoting of PMs, no recounting of night actions, partnerings and the like will be permitted of the dead. The dead may analyze based on material posted in the thread but may provide no other information to which they have been made privy. As with all game-related interaction, this rule is to hold sway in all formats and locations...even face-to-face. I will Mod-kill savagely to enforce this -- taking out the partners of the offender as well if necessary to get my point across. This is the one thing that marred my game last time.

Additional suggestion: no quoting of anything outside the thread. You'll have to paraphrase as best as you can, to avoid giving an advantage to native English speakers who can ape styles better than non-native speakers. No screenshots of anything, even of things inside the thread. If you want to show something from the thread, you'll have to write it as a normal post, again to avoid giiving an advantage to the technically adept.

Note: I'm leaning toward the following at this time

Though the players will not be made privy to the specifics, night actions will be a product of a "combat" system that will generate certain kinds of results based on the relative strengths of the individuals involved. There will be some chance for success with teams that are "short" in numbers to succeed -- though the risks of failure will be greater and there will be some small advantage in using more resources (people) then necessary.

Thoughts?

Keep it simple. Actions without the requisite number of groupies fail. Keep stats out of the game where possible.

Additional note: get a TWC account and talk to Jubal Barca to see if you can set your games one after the other, so you can persuade, threaten, or beg Chandrashekar Azad and Simetrical to join in this. The Fuzz and Evariste would also be good additions, but Simetrical especially is a credit to any Mafia game.

The round when The Fuzz went down was probably the most suspenseful, most skilfully played round of Mafia I've ever seen, thanks to Simetrical's wonderfully imaginative manoeuvring and dramatic reveal, Chandra's vigorous discussion, and The Fuzz's equally vigorous defence. The only comparable rounds in my experience were in Capo di Tutti Capi at the Org, when I first turned the attention to the previously much-trusted Sasaki Kojiro, and later when I was retiring from the game but was determined to take The Stranger with me.

Incidentally from that game,

On Night One, pannonian and I discussed possible suspects (recall that Masons can talk at night). It was fairly clear Dinadan was the one to investigate, although pannonian also expressed suspicion of Annaeus, Evariste, and The Fuzz.

Among those four, I suggested Annaeus should be the last suspect we should look at. The mafia turned out to be Evariste (godfather), Sir Dinadan and The Fuzz. Compare with sapi, who pursued Simetrical throughout the game despite there being overwhelming evidence Sim was the cop and my masonic partner (I was a confirmed masonic townie).

Fluffs out feathers in pride

Oh, and that game continued my record of never having been lynched as a townie, but never surviving either.

[Caius]

I highily suggest that you make that scorings at the end

[Orb]

Additional suggestion: no quoting of anything outside the thread. You'll have to paraphrase as best as you can, to avoid giving an advantage to native English speakers who can ape styles better than non-native speakers.

I disagree here, for CDTC, quoting, except by the dead, really only enhanced the first game. A native speaker might be more 'able' to disguise their own style, but in the end this causes the Mafia to display at least concern about sending out courtship pms after Kralizec's unfortunate demise.

If you want to show something from the thread, you'll have to write it as a normal post, again to avoid giiving an advantage to the technically adept.

I disagree entirely here. I think just about anyone can use the quote and/or spoiler tags as well as bolded and underlined emphasis. They end up with the same options as the other players, but are generally just using them better.

Keep it simple. Actions without the requisite number of groupies fail. Keep stats out of the game where possible.

I agree with Pann on this. I loved the old CTDC rules, and am not too keen on the combat system idea, especially after my own exploded disastrously (I admit, mine was far too complex, but I think any combat system in a game not really derived from it is probably unneeded).

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hmmm....will re-think combat system idea. Simplicity is its own reward. I will ponder this.


As to TWC: I have an account -- "Kern downhill to archers" but I have little activity there and probably could not even find the mafia board to advertise, much less coordinate. Certainly wouldn't mind drawing good players to our gameroom (or the org).

[Warmaster Horus]

I don't think they even have mafia over there...

Anyway, I wasn't in the first CDTC, but am looking forward to this one. Thing is, when I look at the first game, I see something complex. If you want to make it even more, then...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm also not a fan of a combat system...I feel that mafia should have a guaranteed kill on somebody unless that person is protected by a role.

[Andres]

I feel that mafia should have a guaranteed kill on somebody unless that person is protected by a role.

I agree 100 %.

Idem dito for detectives and doctors: 100 % success chance of investigation/protection.

[Caius]

100 % success chance of investigation/protection

I disagree there. Posibilities of fail are bad, at least when you are townie and there are 5 alive, and you rely on true? data.

[Killfr3nzy]

I disagree there. Posibilities of fail are bad, at least when you are townie and there are 5 alive, and you rely on true? data.

Then doesn't that mean you agree?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The point about the mafia kills being an "absolute" is a good one -- Sasaki is speaking to the integral "pressure cooker" nature of mafia itself with this comment.

I was already leaning away from a combat system based on earlier comments, but that's decided it for me. A lot of work would be required and it would change the nature of the game too much. I'll keep this aspect more or less as it was.




Investigations in CDTC are not absolute assessments for most roles -- only indicators.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Proposed Rules of Play (please comment)


I -- Setting:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Fatlington, New Jersey, 1949:

It’s a hot August and Fatlington is stuffed with tourists – but the entire town has been quarantined for 3 weeks because of what appears to be simultaneous outbreaks of cholera and Spanish Influenza. Social conditions are near mutinous, and the threat of the mafia has re-appeared. Mayor Tosa Inu, away at Trenton for a conference, has called for the Committee of Vigilance to be re-established to deal with the threat.

II --Winning the game:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In general, the town wins when all the mafia dons are dead – including any new ones that have “hatched.” A mafia family wins when its members outnumber the remaining mafia & townspeople (which include any independent Wise Guys for this purpose) and all of the other family’s mafia dons are dead. A draw can occur if all of the mafia dons have died and the numbers of remaining “townies” and Mafiosi are equal.

Individual, each player scores points for participation and effectiveness. While the score possibilities vary with role and are role-appropriate, points are weighted heavily in favor of a role’s “general” victory condition so as to encourage you to work for victory even after your demise – or at least not to get in the way. The townie scorecard is published below as an example:

Townsperson:

Overall Victory: 100 points for a townie win.

Personal Survival: 25 points for personal survival.

Night Actions: 50 points (maximum) for:
15 points for each Don killed as part of a “vigilante” group
10 points for each Made or Luca killed as part of a “vigilante” group
5 points for each Wise Guy killed as part of a “vigilante” group
-5 points for each townie killed as part of a “vigilante” group
-10 points for each Detective/Doctor or like pro-townie role killed as part of a “vigilante” group
5 points for each townie saved as part of a “protection” group
0 points for each wise guy saved as part of a “protection” group
-2 points for each mafioso saved as part of a “protection” group

Voting Participation: 25 points (maximum) for:
5 points for voting for a mafia Don to be lynched
3 points for voting for a Mafioso to be lynched
0 points for voting for a Wise Guy to be lynched
-1 point for voting for a Townie (any role) to be lynched


As you can see, general victory weighs more importantly than personal survival, and effective participation is valued. While “mistakes” are punished, the punishment is usually less severe that are the points earned for individual successes. DO NOT FIXATE ON YOUR SCORE – this is largely a guideline to encourage participation and staying both “in character” and within the rules.

III -- Phases:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The usual sequence of 24-hour days and 24-hour nights will be followed. Some of these phases (notably nights 1 and 2) may be extended where necessary to account for outside events/unusual situations. In no instance will the time period be decreased below 24 hours. Please note, however, the first phase of this game will be a day phase (Day One) during which no lynching will occur, only the initial Director’s selection (see roles below).

Day Phase: Each day the town may vote to lynch one suspect from among the list of players. Each townsperson save for the director can cast one vote (see below for procedure). On odd-numbered day phases, the town also votes to select a Director (see below for procedure). The game-master will write up the results of these votes and post them for general consumption, along with any juicy particulars about any executions. The game then proceeds to the next night phase.

Night Phase: Every role has something to do at night – even if your choice is to do nothing. Since every role can be active, with investigations attempted, murders, etc., all players should PM the game-master during each night phase to indicate their actions. The game-master will respond as quickly as possible, and will write up results that take effect immediately prior to the next day phase and voting.

IV -- Night Actions:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Every player has the option to “get some sleep” on any given night. Depending on roles, you may be attempting a kill, investigating someone, or protecting someone instead. Unless indicated otherwise by specific instructions in your role PM, most night actions aside from investigations require teams of participants. Note:

a) You may participate in one and only one killing attempt or protection attempt each night. Investigations MAY – depending on role – be done in addition.

b) Your PM's to me must indicate clearly your actions and provide all of the necessary information or you will be listed as "sleeping" that night. Feel free to provide whatever level of detail you wish (kill specifics etc). Within the constraints of playability I will endeavor to use all such material, but reserve the right to edit if necessary for game play.

PM Example:

Night 4: Working with Red Harvest and Divinus Arma, I will kill Strike for the South.

c) should one of the partners in your group fail to PM me, or should they PM me with different instructions (accidentally or on purpose), you group may not have the requisite numbers to perform a given night action successfully. The write up will indicate that failure, but may or may not reveal who did not participate.

Note: Townies participating in a “vigilante” killing who end up operating solo, by happenstance or betrayal, run a risk of being killed (1 chance in 3). Wise Guys or Mafiosi operating solo run a risk of being identified (1 chance in 6).

V – Clarity to balance the ambiguity

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Upon death, the local gendarmerie will launch a full investigation of that individual to try to determine the reason they were killed. Though slow (results reported on the 3rd morning after death), their then-current role will be revealed. Unfortunately, the specific actions of that individual -- what they did with their role -- will remain a mystery (until the post-game!).

Since investigations are imperfect in this game and since roles can be taken a number of different directions (or even changed), this provision gives the town some hope of a successful conclusion. Please note however, that this revelation will occur a significant period of time after the death of that player.

VI -- Voting:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There are two types, lynch voting and Director selection. Each living townie save for the director may vote to lynch one townsperson per day. On odd-numbered days, each living townie may also vote for the next director.

To lynch a suspect:

You may vote or not vote at your choice. Please be aware however, that persistently avoiding the voting process will result in your removal from play. While the game-master reserves the right to remove someone from play when/if needed at their discretion, as a “rule-of-thumb” missing 3 votes in a row or 5 overall is likely to result in your removal.

Legal vote choices include:

1. voting by name for a living fellow townie to express your preference for their lynching
2. voting “abstain” indicating you have no preference as to who is lynched but wish to see a lynch occur
3. voting “no lynch” indicating that you want no one lynched that day
4. voting “present” to indicate your continued participation

To be counted, a vote MUST be posted in bold typeface using the following format:

e.g. Vote: Seamus

To change a vote, please post the following:

e.g. Unvote: TosaInu
Vote: Seamus

The player receiving the most votes (plurality) will be lynched. If no lynch receives a plurality, no lynch will be conducted. If votes to "Abstain" outnumber "no lynch," the player receiving the most named votes will be lynched even if there were more votes for "no lynch" than for that player. In the event of a tie in votes, the Director decides, solely at her/his discretion, what means to break the tie will be used and may lynch all, some, one, or none of those tied for the most votes.

Lynch votes do figure in the scoring for all roles, please participate.

To select a Director:

You may:

1. “Select: Name” to select a given player as director
2. “Select: Abstain” indicating you have no preference
3. “Select: Vacant” to have the post vacant (filled by Chief Seamus)
4. “Select: Present” to indicate your continued participation

To be counted, a vote MUST be posted in bold typeface using the following format:

e.g. Select: Seamus

To change a vote, please post the following:

e.g. Sack: TosaInu
Select: Seamus

The player selected most often will become the director for the following two lynch votes (though not the one being conducted concurrently with the selection). If abstentions outnumber votes to leave the office "vacant," then the person receiving the most named selection votes will be elected.

Votes to Select a director will not figure in the scoring.

VII -- Gameplay Rules concerning the dead, screenies, and general concerns:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The dead may post, but not vote/select nor carry out any night actions. Dead players may not reveal their roles publicly or privately until that role has been revealed as per section V and may not reveal their “familiy” or role particulars even after that time. Dead players may not reveal, recount or allude to their previous night actions (or results thereof in the case of investigations) publicly or privately – even to confirm a previously made public or private reveal. Remember, even if dead you can still score well provided your “side” achieves victory. Your participation must be circumspect, but your continued participation IS encouraged.

No screenshots may be used, from or to anyone, for ANY purpose – this includes during PMs. Feel free to quote from the public portion of my Role PM’s to you or to fabricate as you see fit. Each role PM will also have an “eyes only” section that is never to be revealed, quoted, or alluded to in your interactions with others under penalty of removal from the game.

Chatlog conversations may be referenced/quoted, but may not be copied via screenshot. Note: it can be difficult to maintain role secrecy during chat conversations.

It is suggested that all players enable “invisible” mode so that technology is not used to trap you. If you remain visible while on the org boards, your activity can be logged and compared against a normal profile providing clues as to your role, working partners, etc.

VIII – The Roles.

[tbc]


Thoughts?