EB Tweaks

[CirdanDharix]

Here's an updated version mixed with Fanatic's mod--kudos to him and thanks for letting me use his stuff.
http://rapidshare.com/files/73347518/EB.zip

Here's an updated version, mixed with Fanatic's mod (see above for why he's awesome) and including changes to the unit prices. See below for details.

http://rapidshare.com/files/73346581/cost.zip

Stuff changed:
Made it possible to play custom battles without changing the EDU. All factional units and some regional ones should be available in custom battles, without any effect on campaign gameplay. If any factional units don't show up, please let me know.
Added assimilation system--assimilation of non-homeland privinces is very expensive and requires you put up with big penalties for a long time. But it allows you to build a Gov I once the process is complete.
Reworked governments--compared to regular EB, putting more centralised governments in place is more expensive and lengthy, but more rewarding in the long term.
Koinon Hellenon now has two different Gov Is, one is a democracy meant for Athens and similar city states,the other is the Spartan Agoge, only certain provinces can have it though so you can't turn Athens into a Spartan-style state.
Increased bonii for many unique "buildings".
Newly-captured provinces will now be in a state of anarchy. This is bad. Very bad. So hurry up with the temporary military government. By the way, you can just destroy it, but that will break the government building conditions, so don't.
Reworked economy--again, many buildings made to be more costly but more rewarding.
Reworked the stats of naval units. Generally speaking, ships cost more to build but less to maintain than in plain EB; they no longer all have the same manpower.
Changed the costs of artillery units for more realism. Maybe it will actually be worth building them now.
Modified ranged units--ranged attacks (especially javelins which I find useless) have been made generally more powerful. Slings are no longer armour-piercing uberweapons and they have less range than bows, but more ammunition.
And Stuff. I may have forgotten some things.

EDIT:
I've also added a new tweak/feature: for the factions that set up colonies of military settlers, these military colonies enable the recruitment of appropriate units; klerouchoi phalangitai for all, and the upgraded colony gives better units for the Eastern Hellenistic factions (dependant on faction: Baktria only get Pezhetairoi, AS gets the Pezhetairoi and Argyraspidai like this, Ptolemies get their military settler elites). The units recruited through military colonies either are no longer recruitable through the standard MICs, or have had their AOR restricted. This gives more incentive for building military colonies and is realistic. Also, all colony buildings have been re-balanced--even for the factions that send out colonists, rather than settling them, there should be more incentive to use them.

Also, Carthaginian Sacred Bands are now recruited from the Temple Complex unique building in Carthage herself.

EDIT2: New version! This one has a vastly changed unit pricing: I've tried to estimate a reasonable price per soldier for each unit, although I've always tried to err on the high, rather than low, side of things (since armies in R:TW will not be as big as the larger real armies of the time). My main concern has been to encourage realistic usage of troops: for instance, it is very cheap to raise levies, so you lose nothing by disbanding them when you don't need them. However, levies tend to be more costly than in plain EB, so keeping them mobilised for long is not a good idea. Generally, I tried to take into account costs for logistics and feeding an army in the field, and this tends to reduce differences between the maintenance costs of elites and conscripts (because it always costs as much to feed ten thousand men, whether they are uber-elite Spartans or hapless hoplitai haploi), although elites still cost much more per man. It also inflates the cost of even the weakest cavalry quite a bit, since horses are expensive to feed and look after. There's also a big difference between the cost of raising professional units and the cost of raising levies, much greater than difference in maintenance costs between the two. Now, I've included a .txt document with the per-man costs in the download, but here's a copy for the impatient:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Note: Mn=Mnai drch=Drachmai (6000 drachmai = 60 Mnai = 1 Talent) "+x%" means you must pay the maintenance cost +x% to raise the unit; pure mercenaries don't have this since the game engine already gives them a "signing up bonus", but mercenaries that also appear as regionals do.

Iovamann, Accensii 1.4Mn +15%
Iaosatae, Toxotai, Nubian Spearmen, Ethiopian Archers, Arab Slingers, Komatai Sphendonetai, Shuban-i Fradakshana, Northern Iberian Skirmishers, Leves 1.5Mn +20%
Sphendonetai, Pantodapoi, Arabian Skirmishers, Imannae, Baktrian Light Infantry, Iberi Velites, Phyletichoi Illyrioi, Velites 1.5Mn +25%
Akontistai, Sotaroas, Komotai Toxotai, Balroae, Numidian Archers, Arabian Archer-Spearmen, Sabaean Archers, Lugoae, Gund-i Palta, Germanic Archers, Iberi Milites, Sarmatian Spearmen 165drch +20%
Kluddobro, Katpatuka Zanteush, Tabargânê Êrânshahr, Galatikoi Kluddolon, Germanic Levy Spearmen, Goidilic Levy Spearmen, Balearic Slingers, Rorarii 175drch +30%
Hoplitai Haploi, Doryphoroi Pontikoi, Garamantine Infantry, Numidian Javelinmen, Red Sea Axemen, East Coast Levies, Misteret Izrahim Tsorim, Bagaudas, Gaeroas, Komatai, Nizagan-i Eranshahr, Hyrkanian Hillmen, Scythian Axemen, Anatolian Hillmen, Germanic Skirmishers, Vigiles, Saka Spearmen 2Mn +25%
Goidilic Light Infantry, Balearic Light Infantry, Camillan Hastati 2Mn +150%
Aithiopikon Agema 2Mn +500%
Pantodapoi Phalangitai, Ethiopian Spearmen, Sabaean Citizen Spearmen, Batacorii, Gaelaiche, Cemmeinarn, Nizag Gund, Thanvare Payahdag, Slaganz, Saka Foot Archers, Sarmatian Foot Archers, Subeshi Archers 2.1Mn +30%
Polybian Hastati 215drch +200%
Phalangitai Deuteroi, Machimoi Phalangitai, Aljazgae, Chatti Clubmen, Scythian Foot Archers 2.2Mn +30%
Aichmetai Leukanoi, Iudaioi Taxeis, Uazali, Illyrioi Thureophoroi, Machimoi, Aithiopoi Machairophoroi, Drapanai, Getikoi Stratiotai, Komatai Agrianai, Bastarnae Shock Infantry, Mardian Archers 2.2Mn +100%
Cwmyr, Levantine Archer Auxilia, Heavy Persian Archers 2.2Mn +400%
Iberi Caetrati, Caetrannan, Camillan Principes 2.3Mn +150%
Arabian Noble Infantry, Botroas, Germanic Spearmen, Chauci Spearmen, Scandinavian Spearmen, Chatti Spearmen 2.3Mn +250%
Anatim Leebim, Iberi Scutari, Gestikapoinann, Polybian Principes 235drch +250%
Peltastai, Ekdromoi Hoplitai, Peltastai Indohellenikoi, Partohellenikoi Thureophoroi 2.4Mn +100%
Western Auxilia, Eastern Auxilia 2.4Mn +300%
Toxotai Kretikoi 2.4Mn +500%
Mesoorianim Leebim, Armenian Medium Infantry, Germanic Swordsmen, Loricati Caetrati, Asturian Axemen 245drch +300%
Thureophoroi, Thureopherontes Toxotai, Red Sea Hoplites, Komatai Pelekuphoroi, Georgian Swordsmen, Kardaka, Hastati Samnitici 2.5Mn +100%
Bataroas, Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai, Uirodusios 2.5Mn +275%
Toxotai Syriakoi, Armenian Noble Infantry, Germanic Pikemen, Goidilic Shock Infantry, Roscaithrera, Cohortes Reformata 2.5Mn +400%
Dorkim Aloopim, Cohortes Imperatoria, Prima Cohortes Reformata 2.5Mn +600%
Prima Cohortes Imperatoria 2.5Mn +800%
Thraikioi Peltastai, Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi, Klerouchoi Phalangitai, Cherusci Swordsmen 255drch +125%
Komatai Epilektoi 2.6Mn +200%
Iphikratous Hoplitai, Hoplitai Indohellenikoi, Koinon Hellenon Phalangitai, Getikoi Straiotai Thorakitai, Polybian Triarii 2.6Mn +400%
Hoplitai, Hoplitai Hellenikoi, Syracuse Hoplites, Dorkim Leebi-Ponnim Mookdamim 2.7Mn +100%
Camillan Triarii 2.7Mn +200%
Calawre, Pontikoi Thorakitai, Scortamavera, Pedites Extraordinarii 2.7Mn +300%
Pezhetairoi, Chalkaspidai 275drch +400%
Hysteroi Pezhetairoi, Sreni Pattya Yoddaha, Germanic Heavy Infantry 275drch +500%
Massiliotes Hoplitai 2.8Mn +100%
Milnaht, Teceitos, Drwdae, Taxeis Triballoi, Loricati Scutari 2.8Mn +250%
Dorkim Leebi-Ponnim Mesoorianim 285drch +100%
Thraikoi Romphaiphoroi, Skadagunganz, Goidilic Noble Infantry 2.9Mn +300%
Misthophoroi Peltastai 3Mn
Klerouchoi Agema, Aanatim Aloopim, Pictones Neitos, Lugian Swordsmen, Dorkei Hatkafa Iberim, Antesignani 3Mn +400%
Argyraspidai, Chaonion Agema, Agema Hellenikon 3.1Mn +400%
Thorakitai, Indogreek Noble Hoplites 3.2Mn +250%
Kluddargos, Neitos, Galatikoi Klerouchoi, Ambakaro 3.2Mn +450%
Cohortes Evocata 3.3Mn +300%
Thorakitai Hoplitai, Baktrioi Agema, Basilikon Agema 3.3Mn +400%
Pheraspidai, Hypaspistai, Cohortes Praetoriana 335drch +700%
Arjos, Rycalawre, Solduros, Galatikoi Kuarothoroi 345drch +300%
Dorkim Kdosim 3.5Mn +500%
Epilektoi Hoplitai 3.6Mn +200%
Carnute Cingetos 3.7Mn +600%
Spartiatai Hoplitai 375drch +900%
Thorakitai Argyraspidai 3.8Mn +800%
Gaesatae, Tindanotae 395drch +850%
Aorsi Riders, Steppe Riders, Dahae Riders, Pahlava Shivatir, Sarmatian Horse-Archers, Scythian Horse-Archers, Dahae Skirmishers, Saka Riders, Saka Horse-Archers, Yuezhi Horse-Archers 4Mn +50%
Ebherni Armoured Shock Infantry, Dosidataskeli 425drch +600%
Roxolanni Riders, Scythian Riders 4.5Mn +50%
Myrcharn 4.5Mn +200%
Hippakontistai, Arabian Levy Cavalry, Nizakahar Ayrudzi 5Mn +50%
Numidian Cavalry, Taramonnos, Getikoi Hippotoxotai, Equites Cantabrii, Ayrudzi Netadzik, Early Yuezhi Nobles 5Mn +150%
Ethiopian Cavalry, Mezenai, Ridanz, Equites Caetrati 5.5Mn +75%
Machimoi Hippeis, Asiatikoi Hippakontistai 6Mn +75%
Illyrioi Hippeis, Sabaean Citizen Cavalry, Goidilic Cavalry, Saka Lancers 6Mn +150%
Thraikioi Hippeis, Kamboja Asvaka Ksatriya, Iberi Curisi 6.5Mn +150%
Prodromoi, Prodromoi Thraikioi, Numidian Nobles, Liby-Phoenician Cavalry 6.9Mn +300%
Carthaginian Citizen Cavalry, Aspet Hetsezalor, Mada Asabara, Asavaran-i Dehbed, Polybian Equites 7Mn +100%
Hippeis, Asiatikoi Hippeis, Katputka Asabara, Camillan Equites 7.2Mn +100%
Ktistai, Sarmatian Noble Horse-Archers, Alan Nobles 7.5Mn +250%
Equites Germanorum, Equites Hispanorum, Equites Thracum, Equites Gallorum 7.5Mn +300%
Ala Imperatoria 7.5Mn +500%
Roxolanni Nobles, Early Saka Nobles, Aorsi Nobles 8Mn +300%
Baktrioi Hippeis, Hetairoi Aspidophoroi, Taxilan Agema, Ambakaro Epones 8Mn +400%
Hippeis Tarantinoi, Leuce Epos, Tarabostes 8.5Mn +150%
Dahae Nobles 8.5Mn +350%
Baktrioi Hippotoxotai, Hippeis Lonchophoroi 9Mn +400%
Brihentin, Galatikoi Lavotuxri, Marhathegnoz 10Mn +200%
Hippeis Thessalikoi, Campanian Cavalry 10Mn +300%
Klerouchoi Agema Hippeon, Agema Hippeon Hellenikon 10Mn +400%
Remi Mairepos, Scythian Nobles 10.3Mn +400%
Hippeis Xystophoroi, Equites Extraordinarii 10.5Mn +300%
Molosson Agema 10.5Mn +500%
Saka Bodyguard Cavalry 11Mn +400%
Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi, Iberi Lancearii 11.5Mn +600%
Sacred Band of Astarte, Shivatir-i Zrehbaran, Zrahakir Netadzik 12Mn +550%
Hetairoi, Pahlavan-i Zrehbaran 12.5Mn +500%
Nakharakan Aspet, Asavaran-i Azadan 13Mn +400%
Girvpanvar 13.5Mn +500%
Khuveshavagan 14.5Mn +300%

I've also tweaked quite alot of units. Notably, upped the lethality of falcatae to the same level as shortswords, upped the stats of Galatikoi Kuarathoroi to the same level as Arjos/Solduros/Rycalawre (since they're basically the same unit, only Galatian), upped Polybian Triarii's defence and increased the charge of Polybian, Marian, and Augustan legionnaires. Also upped the Polybian Principes a bit and repercuted the changes onto Marian/Augustan units. Cataphracts now frighten infantry (you wouldn't want them charging you, either). Very heavy cavalry (Hippeis Thessalikoi and heavier) now have a bonus against cavalry, to enable them to make short work of light cavalry--in a mounted melee, the bigger, stronger chargers of the heavy cavalry are quite an advantage over ligther horses bred for speed over power. Pheraspidai have the same defence as Thorakitai, since they seem to wear the same armour. Uachtarach Dubo-something have also been upped to match the Dosidataskeli (or the reverse--can't remember). Pontikoi Thorakitai have been boosted, since they seemed much weaker than Thureophoroi. Caetrati have been given -1 armour and Loricati Caetrati +1, since there wasn't enough difference between their defences.

[CirdanDharix]

bump for updated dowload.

[The Celt]

Bump. Awesome mod. This should be perfect for factions with limited expansion zones or for migration campaigns.

[TWFanatic]

A lot of this is stuff I've already done to my game. Some excellent ideas there for balancing and improving EB gameplay. Great mod for long-term, serious campaigns, but not well-suited for blitzkriegs (then again EB as a game really isn't either). Good work.

[CaesarAvgvstvs]

Hi all. I want to play this mod, but whenever I boot up EB, I get an error message about the officer of the Frist Cohorts!

[CirdanDharix]

Do you? that's odd. What is the exact error message? Also, did you extract all files to the correct directory?

EDIT: uploaded a new version, I still don't know what's causing your trouble but it might fix it. It also fixes a couple of minor bugs with governments; now if you tear them down and have no government in a province, you won't be stuck since it will script in an Anarchy-marker. The problem is that, in order to solve another problem linked to captured cities whereby you had greyed-out duplicates of all buildable governments, I had to remove the seamless upgrading from one government to another. That means you now have to plunge a province into Anarchy in order to change its government, and you'll have to tolerate the penalties of having only a temporary military admnistration while building the new government. I'm not sure the solution is better than the evil in this case...

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Could you perhaps host it on a second site? Rapidshare is causing problems with my browser.

[CirdanDharix]

is FileFront okay?

http://files.filefront.com/Datazip/;.../fileinfo.html

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Oh, yes it is! Is this the version mixed with Fanatic's mod? Because that's the one I want to install.

[Horst Nordfink]

I'm a bit of a novice with computers, would it be possible to write a walk-through of what I need to do please? Just to make sure I don't mess this up completely.

Also, is there any worries about using this with MAAs city mod?

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Just found a way around the problem of my browser, and promptly started a KH Campaign. What thought did you pursue when you greatly increased the price the government buildings? Right now, the only thing a small faction can build at the start is a type 4 gov, and then that extremely expensive client ruler pops up and sucks 1000 minai a turn out of you treasury.
I don't think it is a good idea to make Argyraspides and Pezhetairoi recruitabe through military settler colonys, nor is it historical. Pezhetairoi and Argyrapides were a full-time soldier class that needed special training institutions, hence their limited availability. And you should include a manual on all the changes you have made, so that everybody knows what exactly they mean. Right now I'm quite confused: Can Makedonia and Epeiros also recruit Kleruchoi through their military colonys?
And one thing I wanted to mention: the anarchy building is messing with the old government building of the province: If you destroy the old government building liek you should, you can't build military government anymore (the building icon is greyed out). But nonetheless, you made a great mod, especially towrds unit balancing. I hope I was constructive with this post, and I wish you good luck on your way to perfect this project
Edit: Ekdromoi are slightly more expensive to recruit and to maintain than hoplitai or iphikratous hoplitai. I think that's not intended.
Edit2: It would not have hurt to tell us that you included 0-turn recruitment, especialy as it is a very important change that totally overthrows campaign balancing. Through this the AI is able to depopulate its citys very fast, and it encourages levy massing.

[CirdanDharix]

Just found a way around the problem of my browser, and promptly started a KH Campaign. What thought did you pursue when you greatly increased the price the government buildings?

It makes for a longer game rather than a blitz. The Gov 4 is meant to be crappy (since you haven't actually annexed the area to your state) but gives a quick and cheap way of occupying a region. If you want to expand far, you'll need alot of money to efficiently occupy land. That said, KH shouldn't be to hard--since the economic buildings are now more powerful, and Kh's cities are fairly built up, you should be able to get a decent economy going. After that, take it slow--the KH wasn't historically in a good position, remember that the alliance of city-states it represents was defeated by Makedonia and Athens was occupied a decade after the campaign starts, so you shouldn't be able to just bulldoze through everything. On the other hand, I'm playing a game as KH presently and I've killed Antigonos and two of his sons, and recaptured Corinth and Euboea within five years. So it's not impossible, you just need to disband a few units and/or raise taxes to the full, and build up your econ.

Right now, the only thing a small faction can build at the start is a type 4 gov, and then that extremely expensive client ruler pops up and sucks 1000 minai a turn out of you treasury.

Client rulers suck 1000Mnai out of the treasury each turn?!?
Are you certain of this?!? I swear I've never noticed it. never used to many of them either, though. If this is the case I'll see what can be done...this may be because they're using the Mercenary General units as bodyguards, I could change this to appropriate factional bodyguard units if they are to expensive.

I don't think it is a good idea to make Argyraspides and Pezhetairoi recruitabe through military settler colonys, nor is it historical. Pezhetairoi and Argyrapides were a full-time soldier class that needed special training institutions, hence their limited availability.

Granted, but AFAIK Pezhetairoi/Argyraspides were drawn from the landowner class, and in the East this meant military settlers had to be granted land first. Maybe I could put the recruitment of them back with the MIC, but require the military colonies (rather than specific provinces) to make them recruitable. If that would work, never tried making a building be a requirement for a unit before.

And you should include a manual on all the changes you have made, so that everybody knows what exactly they mean.

You're right, but originally I was just making tweaks for my own benefit, and then decided to release them..so i'm sorry, but I lost track of some changes.

Right now I'm quite confused: Can Makedonia and Epeiros also recruit Kleruchoi through their military colonys?

Yes, Klerouchoi only however. In a normal EB game they can recruit them in provinces that historically hosted the Diadochi's military colonies, so now they
can recruit them simply wherever they have military colonies.

And one thing I wanted to mention: the anarchy building is messing with the old government building of the province: If you destroy the old government building liek you should, you can't build military government anymore (the building icon is greyed out).

I thought that was fixed when I removed the ability to upgrade from one building to another. I'll look into this.

Edit: Ekdromoi are slightly more expensive to recruit and to maintain than hoplitai or iphikratous hoplitai. I think that's not intended.

I'm still working on unit prices (and changing them quite drastically, though I'm still testing my latest changes), but I think this may be the case already in normal EB. That said, Ekdromoi Hoplitai are 200 per unit as opposed to 160 for the heavier kinds, so the unit has a whole might well end up more expensive even if individual soldiers are cheaper. I hope that makes sense.

Edit2: It would not have hurt to tell us that you included 0-turn recruitment, especialy as it is a very important change that totally overthrows campaign balancing. Through this the AI is able to depopulate its citys very fast, and it encourages levy massing.

I actually thought the AI would never take advantage of this I've never seen it mass produce units in a single turn, at least. It seems so easy to screw up the AI's already idiotic behaviour As for the levy massing, this is intentional--historically a lot of armies were rapidly raised from militias or even conscripts. As I mentioned, I'm still working on unit prices, and one of my goals is to encourage the disbandment of levies during peace-time, and their raising when threatened by war. The problem is that the AI is to stupid to disband its levies

[CirdanDharix]

I'm a bit of a novice with computers, would it be possible to write a walk-through of what I need to do please? Just to make sure I don't mess this up completely.

Also, is there any worries about using this with MAAs city mod?

It won't work with MAA's city mod, since I've changed the same files as him.

[Admetos]

Actually, if you're using Fanatics latest version as a base for your mod, it will already contain the City Mod.

[CirdanDharix]

Actually, if you're using Fanatics latest version as a base for your mod, it will already contain the City Mod.

Actually, I used the version non-compatible with MAA's mod, so I had less stuff to overwrite as I changed both EDB and descr_regions.txt (the later to add a hidden resource for building Spartan governments) which the city mod depends on. I'm considering doing something also to restrict city growth (3+% in a three montsh is just amssive), but ultimately, I don't want the "historical straightjacket" effect of having only certain cities able to grow. Location plays a large part in a city's development, but so does politics, and if an insane player wants to have the Qarthadastim migrate to London (which has an excellent location, but was historically a backwater at the time), who am I to say he can't make it into the new centre of Phoenician power and a vibrant metropolis?

I'd particularly appreciate feedback on my new unit pricing. I've probably made some wrong calls, after all.

EDIT:, oh and I forgot, but I lowered the maintenance of mercenary generals to 1/3 of their normal body guard unit, since you're paying the general hismelf a hardcoded salary. However, merc generals now cost the princely sum of 150 talents to hire.

[Basileus Seleukeia]

150 Talents, how much Minai are that again? Can't remember right now...

[Kepper]

is possibel to use you mod it Spoils of Victory - a micromod, Konny's money script

[CirdanDharix]

Basileus Seleukeia: 150 talents = 9000 Mnai. It's alot of money. Of course, a gov IV comes with a free merc general, but he can't move.

Keeper: you can just stick the Spoils of Victory code into EBBS_script.txt and replace the EB mioney script with Konny's, if that's what you're asking.

EDIT: concerning the government building bug, I don't think it's possible to solve it permanently--you can either destroy the enemy government and anarchy, and wait one turn for the anarchy amrker to be replace; or you can desrtoy the government, save, and load, which seems to clear out the effects of the bug (don't overwrite your previous save, though--just in case); or you can just ignore it and never destroy the government. It's officially annoying the heel out of me.

[Numahr]

Nice job CirdanDharix.

I've seen that you include important negative "bonus" for your government buildings such as "taxable_income_bonus bonus -50".

Have you checked that they actually work in game? Sa far I've understood that negative bonus are broken. That woud defeat your whole government concept...

[CirdanDharix]

Hmm, well, having a province in Anarchy takes away most of its income, and tI do see a big difference between government types. I'll try to work out mathematically if the differences are exactly as planned or somehow attenuated, though--you can never be sufficiently certain.

[fallen851]

It also inflates the cost of even the weakest cavalry quite a bit, since horses are expensive to feed and look after.

Right, because grass and a rope are really expensive. The real cost associated with horses is the training, of the horse, and also the rider to be combat ready.

[Numahr]

I am still looking with interest at your files.

It seems that the file you uploaded does not include your new pricing system. I see that you reduced the recruitment time to 0 for all, but I do not see any other change in units cost...?

[CirdanDharix]

Nuhmar, couldn't you have posted this earlier? this is so embarassing, I left out the second link It's fixed now. The actual unit prices are set for Huge unit size, ebcause otherwise, they'd be way to small.

[Numahr]

It's OK CirdanDharix :)
Actually I checked again again and again before to post it...

I think I can confirm you that taxe penalties are broken, while trade penalties are OK. You can however, for type 4 governments, tweak the type 4 governor trait and add a tax penalty effect to it, this works well.

As for unit stats and cost, I will now have a closer a look at your system, it seems very innovative. I am afraid this may have bad consequences on the way AI will balance the composition of its stacks. Did you test this parameter? You know, the AI chooses what unit to build relying on their cost, and tweaking these may result in AI making unbalanced / unrealistic / not fun stacks.

[CirdanDharix]

So far, the AI is buillding fairly balanced stacks...it does however seem to favour smaller units more--i.e. the diadochi seem to build more thureophoroi and less phalanx units than before, although they still build pike battalions their armies are more diverse. Generally, levy units are now mixed in with higher-quality forces which is IMO more realistic than a stack with twenty elites. Cavalry is still getting built, but settled nations tend to avoid going cav-heavy; for some perhaps there isn't enough cavalry, but then it also means we avoid having Romans who field huge cavalry armies. Perhaps AI unit choice could be improved by increasing the size of some infantry units, though.

The problem with giving traits to the type IV governors is that they won't be faction-specific. I've made most Type IV governments the same, but soem factions have their specific variations. How badly are the tax penalties broken?

[Beefy187]

Is there any Mod which just include that two Type 1 governmet for KH thing? That would be awesome to have for my upcoming KH campeign

[icydawgfish]

Great work, and it looks very impressive. But is there any chance that a version will be made that is compatable with the city mod?

[Beefy187]

Started my KH campeign and loving it..

Just one question.. Which settlement can i build spartan type 1 government in besides Sparta?

[Warlord 11]

I have downloaded your mod and like it very much, but I have a couple of minor complaints.
First, while I like the economic system a lot (both that more developed cities make much more money as well as the relative costs of different units), I think that there may be a bit too much income relative to unit costs. In my KH game (admittedly on Medium difficulty) I control about 10 provinces, yet I have a fleet of some 1,500 ships, two full stacks (one made mostly of high quality troops, such as Spartan hoplites and cavalry), one half stack, significant garrison forces across my empire, constant construction in all provinces and I am still swimming in money. I realize that Hellas is likely one of the richest regions in the game, but it still seems slightly unbalanced.

Secondly, the ships seem to be somewhat unbalanced as well. The stronger ships tend to have many more ships per unit, yet cost only slightly more in upkeep, so it seems to me that the big ships are far more cost effective than small ships (unless you are only going to keep them around for a short while, but it seems that the relative recruitment/upkeep costs of most of them dissuade people from doing that). Perhaps larger ships should come in smaller quantities, but with similar upkeeps?

Finally, when I conquered Ambrakia (sp?), I destroyed the government and anarchy building like I had been doing in all the other cities I conquered. Yet, the next turn the anarchy building did not reappear, so I can't build a government there.

Again, I like the mod very much and am having a very good time playing it. I look forward to your attempt to lower growth rates without limiting city size. It may very well fix the first problem to some extent, as cities will tend to stay small and undeveloped for a lot longer, and thus one will make less money. Or perhaps you could increase build times to achieve a similar result. Or both?

About assimilation, could it be made so most of ones factional troops can be built in an assimilated city? In your example, if Carthage conquered London and made it into a thriving metropolis, could it be made so Carthage could recruit, say, Carthaginian Citizen Calvary? Perhaps after another long building called "Migration" or something?

[CirdanDharix]

First, i've updated the download--just added Crete to the provinces that can host a Spartan Agoge Klerouchy, and gave the two versions of the Thracian Prodromoi the same lance attack--previously the Getai had 4, and the regional/merc version had 3 (but was otherwise identical).


Beefy 187: Spartan Type I government should be available in Taras, Thermon, and now Crete if you have the latest download. If it doesn't show up, you may have to delete map.rwm, as it relies on a hidden resource.

Icydawgfish: Making my tweaks fully compatible with MAA's CityMod would be to difficult and not itneresting enough, though I'm working on my own solution to the problem of overpopulous cities, without the straightjacket approach of making only certain settlements able to reach a given size.

Warlord 11:
Well, I did intend to make a developed economy more powerful than in the regular EB, but I do seem to have made it possible to turn some cities into monstrous cash-cows. Part of the problem in linked to the RTW engine, namely, unit sizes: you're not going to have armies of 30,000 men marching around, so some form of compromise with realism has to found, especially since there's no way either to model hiring mercenaries only for a short fifty day campaign, for instance. Slowing city growth is at least part of the solution; other possibilities involve working on the value of trade goods, or turning up unit costs on the basis of one man representing several. I'd rather not have to reduce the quite large economic bonii I gave certain buildings, simply in order to maintain the difference between developped economies and backwaters, and to give the player (and even the AI) the chance to develop said backwaters.

Secondly, I didn't see the unit sizes for ships as a number of ships but as a number of fighting men (assuming the standard sailing complement, although a number of extra soldiers could be brought on board before major battles) for a small squadron (usually six ships). To be honest, it's deliberate that Pentekonterai aren't competitive when compared to Pentereis; I don't claim to be an expert but from what I've read, during the EB time period the triere itself was basically a "poor man's battleship", whereas any ship smaller was not worth considering as your navy's mainstay. The smaller ships (pentekonterai, biremes...) were only used as scouts, liaisons and for anti-piracy operations. Already at the time of Salamis, more than two hundred years before EB, pentekonterai were treated as negligible in big battles (Herodotos disregards them when giving the total strength of the fleets). So it would be unhistorical for pentekonterai, even many pentenkonterai, to be a viable, cost-effective option for your fleet's main line-of-battle ship. During the Hellenistic period, the workhorse of major navies was the pentere, so I suggest that if you want to build yourself into a first-rate naval power, you start gathering pentereis. It's only with ships larger than the pentere that, historically, "bigger=better" was brought into doubt.


Thirdly, I've just had a look at the code, and it seems I forgot Ambrakia in the script that regenerates anarchies. Rather than making a new download just for that, here's the code that needs to be added to EBBS_script.txt:

monitor_event SettlementTurnStart SettlementName Ambrakia
and not SettlementBuildingExists = anarchy
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov_feeder
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov4
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov3
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov2
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov1
and not SettlementBuildingExists = govnomad
and not SettlementBuildingExists = govagoge
and not SettlementBuildingExists = govparthian

console_command create_building Ambrakia "anarchy"

end_monitor

When I get home I'll add this into the next downloadable version.

Fourthly, right now I'm experimenting with adding pop growth penalties to the unavoidable governor buildings, and it makes getting your cities huge much more challenging. I might increase the costs and build time on some buildings, as well.

And lastly, I think it's a good idea to make most units dependant, as far as possible, upon buildings and "political conditions" (materialised by buildings, of course), but I haven't tried it yet because I want to finish my ongoing KH campaign AAR ([shameless plug]https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95143[/shameless plug]) without such a major upheaval as a completely reworked recruitment system. Is it even possible to make a building (other than the barracks themselves!) a requirement for recruiting a unit? I haven't tried it yet.