FotS: Imperials or Shogunate?

[Graphic]

Who will you first attempt to lead to hegemony over Nihon?

If you ask me, the Shogun rules at the pleasure of our divine Emperor. Traitors and blasphemers deserve only death.

[econ21]

I read that the Shogunate was more keen on opening up Japan to the world. I wonder if that implies they will incline more to modern weapons? If so, I vote for them: guns beat pointy sticks!

EDIT: Turns out, I was quite wrong - Imperials are the westernised ones. I've pre-ordered the LE so will start of with Saga, an Imperial faction with bonuses towards westernisation.

[edyzmedieval]

I think it will be a real challenge for those who will go with katanas against guns.

[Peasant Phill]

I enjoyed the gunfire in ETW so I'll side with the shoganate.

[frogbeastegg]

Do you have any idea how long I spent setting that Shogunate up? And now you want me to knock it all down!?

More seriously, I'm not sure. It depends which clan offers a situation I want to play. I haven't been following the game very closely and currently have little understanding of what the differences are between the various clans, or where on the map they begin.

[Veho Nex]

I read that the Shogunate was more keen on opening up Japan to the world. I wonder if that implies they will incline more to modern weapons? If so, I vote for them: guns beat pointy sticks!

The Imperial forces are the ones with the big guns. The Shogunate uses more traditional methods.

[Graphic]

Do you have any idea how long I spent setting that Shogunate up? And now you want me to knock it all down!?

More seriously, I'm not sure. It depends which clan offers a situation I want to play. I haven't been following the game very closely and currently have little understanding of what the differences are between the various clans, or where on the map they begin.

I don't know who precisely I'll pick yet either, but it will probably be the Imperial faction closest to the new islands in either the north or south. If there's a faction that starts there, I might have to pick them no matter which side of the conflict they fall on.

[Maltz]

The Tokugawa Shogun himself was willing to return the power to the emperor, who will reform Japan after the western systems (which, at the time, was Imperialism. You may argue the USA is still largely Imperialism), but the Samurai class objected to the change. The Shogun then joined the side of the Samurai (as the figure head) to fight the reform side. The reform side had advanced western weapons and beat the Samurai side (this is depicted in Tom Cruise' Last Samurai).

So if you like the Gatling Gun - Imperialists!

[Fagar]

Because my ego would like me to be able to change history
and because the game will allow me to..
Shogunate....

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

It seems mostly everyone here is for the Shogunate. I am taking the Imperalist Factions.

[SalmonSoil]

Firstly, although the Imperial factions were in general more modernized, both sides made use of as much modern weaponry as they could. This game isn't samurai vs machine guns, its samurai and machine guns vs samurai and machine guns.

The Last Samurai depicts a fictional conflict constructed from elements of the Boshin war and other events from this time period.

I recommend that you all read this article before making assumptions about the factions of this game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boshin_War

Now that thats out of the way... I intend to play as an Imperial faction. In my first play through of a total war campaign I prefer to play the historic 'winners' (although actually in Shogun 2 I played Oda, who really just set Tokugawa up for the win). I'm just not certain which of the 3 factions best fits that description yet.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

Though, CA has allowed some historical accuracy in this, I don't know why anyone has ever noticed this, but if you're playing as a Shogunate clan, you can research and gain weapons, and art. So I think it would be a much better balance. I wouldn't say the game is 100% accurate, I'd say somewhere 50-90 % of it is. Shogun 2 was 99.9% accurate, though it missed some vital ingredients concerning the historical units, otherwise it was quite well researched.

[Graphic]

Though, CA has allowed some historical accuracy in this, I don't know why anyone has ever noticed this, but if you're playing as a Shogunate clan, you can research and gain weapons, and art.

I thought it was common knowledge by now that both sides used modern weapons, just the Shogunate a bit less so. Unless I'm misreading your post.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

Hmmm....... I'm not sure now...

[Ca Putt]

I'll just see which clan has the most appealing boni and ideally a remotely stylish color no matter it shogunate or empire, I'll take that.

[andrewt]

Do you have any idea how long I spent setting that Shogunate up? And now you want me to knock it all down!?

More seriously, I'm not sure. It depends which clan offers a situation I want to play. I haven't been following the game very closely and currently have little understanding of what the differences are between the various clans, or where on the map they begin.

Saw some preview posted in another site. It's gone now but here's what I remember:

Imperial clans are:
Satsuma - basically the Shimazu, good position, bunch of boring bonuses
Tosa - basically the Chosokabe, has some diplomatic and naval bonuses
Choshu - basically the Mori, but west of where they used to be, has a bonus to charge and building modern stuff
Saga (pre-order bonus) - Hizen province, more westernized
Tsu (pre-order bonus) - I think around Mikawa province, bonuses to ninja

Shogunate clans:
Nagaoka - where Uesugi was, modern economic powerhouse
Aizu - that province west of Echigo (Fukushima maybe?), bonus to traditional samurai stuff
Jozai - around Satsuma area, bonuses useful for guerilla warfare
Obama (pre-order bonus) - Wakasa, repression/economy bonuses
Sendai (unannounced, probably future DLC) - diplomacy bonuses

Personally, I'm leaning towards the Saga (Imperial) or Nagaoka (Shogunate) factions. Saga first if I can get the limited edition.

[rvg]

Revere the Emperor, expel the barbarians.

[leonardo davinci]

i think i'll start as shogunate, because i like to use modern weapons. after that i might do a campaign as an imperialist, just to try them out while actually sticking to the term repel the barbarians, and not repel the barbarians after buying all the weapons you need from them.

[SalmonSoil]

i think i'll start as shogunate, because i like to use modern weapons. after that i might do a campaign as an imperialist, just to try them out while actually sticking to the term repel the barbarians, and not repel the barbarians after buying all the weapons you need from them.

Actually the Imperial faction was more modernized than the Shogunate.

[leonardo davinci]

no, the imperials were the ones that had the saying 'revive the emperor, expel the barbarians'. i do know both sides used modern weapons, but the shogun was the one that set up some trade agreements with different nations. the imperials wanted to close the borders of japan again, to keep out those barbarians. of course, they made a few exceptions for those who could sell them those nice deadly weapons.

the ruling shogun at that time was facinated by western ways, the clothing, the industry, the way civilization was build in the west, but most importantly, their weapons. the people were getting angry at their ruler for trying to westernize so much. that's why they wanted it to be like the good old days the emperor still ruled. it wasn't called the meiji-restoration for nothing. they wanted to restore the old ways, and the emperor was a good sign of how it used to be.

[SalmonSoil]

The cry of 'Revere the emperor, expel the barbarians' was more rhetoric than an actual policy. Also many of the people who supported this policy realized that Japan could not 'expel the barbarians' with out first matching their military technology, especially after Kagoshima and Shimonoseke were bombarded by foreign navies.
But regardless of what effect the Imperials ideology would have on their technology, I know that at the first battle of the Boshin war, the Imperial faction achieved a decisive victory despite being outnumbered 3 to 1 against the Shoguns forces partially because the Imperial army was fully modernized (although some traditional samurai forces remained), whilst the Shoguns army was only partly modernized. The most modernized armies in this battle were, in order: Choshu (Imperial), the Shoguns personal army, Satsuma (Imperial) and Aizu (Shogun).

In general you will find that military technology generally is exempted from attempts to maintain traditional forms of society, because of how essential maintaining military competitiveness is to a nations survival. Note that after the Shogun first banned foreigners from Japan and eliminated Christianity within the country, Japan still kept its muskets and cannons. Likewise, the opinion of 'expel the barbarian' intellectuals was that Japan should first modernize its army before again closing itself.

[leonardo davinci]

well, i read about it in wikipedia now, i see you're right.

but yeah, i know they first wanted to get weapons to be able to expel the barbarians. it was more an excuse to try to claim power than an actual goal.

[easytarget]

I'm calling the thread a false dilemma and going with option 3, forming my own republic.

P.S. For that reason, I voted turtles of course.

[frogbeastegg]

Which is the faction with the black and gold traditional armour? They can be seen in a few screenshots. That armour is nice!

[SalmonSoil]

Which is the faction with the black and gold traditional armour? They can be seen in a few screenshots. That armour is nice!

That is Aizu domain. According to the guy further up this thread they have a bonus to traditional Samurai type things, starting East of where Uesegi start in Shogun 2. In the 17th century they developed close ties for the Shogun and the Daimyo set down a house code declaring single minded devotion to the Shogun. They were the head of the Shinsengumi (Shoguns secret police). Maybe they'll have some bonus because of that?

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

I'm more of a imperalisitc somewhat. If I could combine it using the Shogunate's forces, I could then have a pre combined shogunate-imperial army.

[frogbeastegg]

That is Aizu domain. According to the guy further up this thread they have a bonus to traditional Samurai type things, starting East of where Uesegi start in Shogun 2. In the 17th century they developed close ties for the Shogun and the Daimyo set down a house code declaring single minded devotion to the Shogun. They were the head of the Shinsengumi (Shoguns secret police). Maybe they'll have some bonus because of that?

Thanks. Sounds good. This may be perfect for an AAR idea I've had ... provided they are not one of the preorder specials.

[Yesugey]

Its hard question.

Both sides are westernized, and both sides are actually embracing Samurai culture. Only one goes for the Empreror himself, and other goes for the Shogun.

It might be wrong to choose the Shogun over the Empreror, but actually Shogun himself wants the good of the empreror and Japan itself too.

And also, you might decide that your clan can honor the empreror better than any other, and you can fight for your own clan's glory.

Because of this conditions, the answer is not easy like "I will pick Shogun", or "Empreror"...

I might choose the third way, and pick the side of myself. At the end, both Empreror's and Shogun's side are equally selfish. Maybe I am the one who knows better for the Empreror and Japan? Maybe I shall rise and rule Japan like Togugawa did?

[Liberator]

Imperials or Shogunate?
I find the republic to be the most interesting choise, but I havent tried it yet either (my first campaign is just on its way)

[Nowake]

I've not checked up either in-game - it's the reason I've visited the .Org again, to see if I should bother with the expansion - yet I think it stands to reason the Shogunate should be anyone's choice in the beginning - they were confronted with the most difficult challenge, of making capitalism work in an aristocratic regime (no idea if the game portrays that tension properly of course). In history, there were no differences in their approach to modernisation really - both factions sought it, they simply sought the help of different western states to achieve that.