Patch 1.2 Release/Delay Discussion

[Durallan]

Friday sooon approaches! I wonder if itll be released? :)

[FactionHeir]

Friday sooon approaches! I wonder if itll be released? :)

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...63&postcount=1

[Durallan]

ahhhh, probably next week then. Oh well!

[Odin]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...63&postcount=1

While I havent read every post here in this thread I have read a lot of them. I personally find this whole business to be very,very poorly handled on many levels.

I just find it remarkable that CA is soliciting bug feedback on a patch that was pulled back from release due to a crash bug.

I know the argument of "lets make the best patch we can" using all the resources available, i just find it all in such bad taste, and the seeming bending over backward to give CA/sega the benefit of the doubt a formula for these types of shanagans going forward.

The consumer deserves better, nothing personal factionheir im not shooting the messenger here, I just find the progression of the whole 1.2 patch business to be now within the realm of explotation of the goodwill of the customer.

let them fix thier own dam work.

[Generals_Bodyguard]

While I havent read every post here in this thread I have read a lot of them. I personally find this whole business to be very,very poorly handled on many levels.

I just find it remarkable that CA is soliciting bug feedback on a patch that was pulled back from release due to a crash bug.

I know the argument of "lets make the best patch we can" using all the resources available, i just find it all in such bad taste, and the seeming bending over backward to give CA/sega the benefit of the doubt a formula for these types of shanagans going forward.

The consumer deserves better, nothing personal factionheir im not shooting the messenger here, I just find the progression of the whole 1.2 patch business to be now within the realm of explotation of the goodwill of the customer.

let them fix thier own dam work.

ummmm...we're not fixing it for them...just giving some feedback....

[Odin]

ummmm...we're not fixing it for them...just giving some feedback....

ummmm, an open solicitation by a developer to

For those that couldn't wait and have installed the early 1.2 patch, please send any bug details to "bugs ' at' creative-assembly.com.au" along with any supporting files such as replay files, screenshots, save games etc.

is a request to help them identify problems with thier product.

Technically no we arent fixing it for them, but there shouldnt be any bugs, they have had ample time to complete 1.2, and an additional reprive from thier own predetermined release date due to thier own work not being up to snuff.

Sure I will retract my claim of "fixing" it but I wont retract my seintiment, this whole 1.2 fiasco is appaling, consumers deserve better then to be openly solicited to help identify problems, thats thier job.

I also find it remarkable that the benefit of the doubt continuely is given with minimal skepticism as to the process/intent involved in this whole process from the CA/Sega end.

[Brutal DLX]

Listen up, men:

"Surely, there is something appealing, something appaling, something for everyone in what I must now say:
The patch will come!
It will take some more time!
But all of us will be brave!"

[Lusted]

but there shouldnt be any bugs

Im sorry but NO BUGS?!?!?! Yes, it shouldn't have any major bugs and only a few minor bugs left, but it's an impossibility to produce a bug free game nowadays.

[Odin]

but it's an impossibility to produce a bug free game nowadays.

thats correct, but they arent producing a game, they are producing a patch to a game (thats what I was remarking on). How is it that a patch that wasnt released, already has buglists and the developer encouraging the process of identifying the bugs?

I remain firm in my sentiment, this whole 1.2 business has been sloppy (and thats being generous). its a patch, it shouldnt have any bugs of consequence, yet whats the buglist here at the org at page 3 or 4 Lusted

[Lusted]

How is it that a patch that wasnt released, already has buglists and the developer encouraging the process of identifying the bugs?

It's to catch all the remaining bugs, and to check to see if 1.2 introduces any new bugs. That is always a risk with programming, fixing bugs has a tendency to introduce new ones.

[Odin]

It's to catch all the remaining bugs, and to check to see if 1.2 introduces any new bugs. That is always a risk with programming, fixing bugs has a tendency to introduce new ones.

Okay Lusted I respect your opinion on the technical aspect of it. I am no programmer, I said my piece.

[Durallan]

ummmm, an open solicitation by a developer to is a request to help them identify problems with thier product.

Technically no we arent fixing it for them, but there shouldnt be any bugs, they have had ample time to complete 1.2, and an additional reprive from thier own predetermined release date due to thier own work not being up to snuff.

Sure I will retract my claim of "fixing" it but I wont retract my seintiment, this whole 1.2 fiasco is appaling, consumers deserve better then to be openly solicited to help identify problems, thats thier job.

I also find it remarkable that the benefit of the doubt continuely is given with minimal skepticism as to the process/intent involved in this whole process from the CA/Sega end.

They said it on the first day, CA/SEGA do not and will not support the leaked patch. But seeing so many people have taken the liberty of installing it (myself included) they might as well see if anyone else has caught something anyone else has missed. It is their job but its good to know that they are watching for extra problems that will pop up on other peoples computers.

Your whole argument about people being used to find bugs in the 1.2 patch is void because those who downloaded it did so becuase they wanted to, they could have waited for the official patch if they so desired, anyway you should be happy even if the circumstances aren't the preferred ones that they may find more bugs to correct before the OFFICIAL 1.2 PATCH. Anyone whom installed the leaked patch did so voluntarily, yes theyve had ample time to complete the patch but it takes time and they probably knock off at 5 oclock like most people and goto their homes friends and families and then have some fun on the weekends. Yes its annoying and aggrivating but I wouldn't call it a fiasco by any stretch of the term.

[gardibolt]

Really, the developers soliciting comments on the unsupported patch is a very positive thing. Having more eyes look at something for problems is always a good idea, and since the patch slipped out they might as well put it to good use. Frankly, I'd be seriously annoyed with CA if they didn't take advantage of this circumstance.

[Odin]

Your whole argument about people being used to find bugs in the 1.2 patch is void because those who downloaded it did so becuase they wanted to, they could have waited for the official patch if they so desired, anyway you should be happy even if the circumstances aren't the preferred ones that they may find more bugs to correct before the OFFICIAL 1.2 PATCH. Anyone whom installed the leaked patch did so voluntarily, yes theyve had ample time to complete the patch but it takes time and they probably knock off at 5 oclock like most people and goto their homes friends and families and then have some fun on the weekends. Yes its annoying and aggrivating but I wouldn't call it a fiasco by any stretch of the term.

Your entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. Yes people downloaded it because they chose too, just like the linked thread given was CA's choice to solicit feedback on the leaked patch, that was broken in the first place by thier own hand.

on a side note I find your tone to be bordering on self rightous, you might want to take a step back from the PC before telling people what parts of thier opinions are "voided" and what they should be "thankful" for.

It takes away and lessens a somewhat logical and well presented argument.

[Odin]

Really, the developers soliciting comments on the unsupported patch is a very positive thing. Having more eyes look at something for problems is always a good idea, and since the patch slipped out they might as well put it to good use. Frankly, I'd be seriously annoyed with CA if they didn't take advantage of this circumstance.

I am sure the developers are thrilled you feel that way gardibolt and by no means do I think you arent entitled to your view. I expressed mine, and thats all I dont claim to be the end voice on the matter.

I do however feel that this whole 1.2 process, is vindicating a condition within the gaming industry that allows for developers to release (or leak) unfinished products that essentially get tested and corrected by the reporting of the people who purchased it to begin with.

Maybe my ethical compass is set to high, so be it. I just dont see how all this helps with the fact that a 1.2 patch was necessary to begin with. on the contrary, it perpeutates the current climate of "well fix it later" or "lets have the files moddable so they can fix it later".

Clearly its ideal for the game maker.

[Pode]

Frankly, I'd be seriously annoyed with CA if they didn't take advantage of this circumstance.

Personally, I am seriously annoyed at CA that it's taken this level of debacle to get them to even entertain the eminently logical idea of an open beta for a proprosed patch before it's officially released. Not only do they get free labor from a massive pool of highly motivated testers, they get hardware spec feedback from all the dxdiag files for their customer databases, so they know how current their target market keeps their gaming rig for future development. If they're smart enough to steal Stardock's idea, they can even SELL us the right to beta test the game / expansion for them by making the open beta downloadable if you pre-order. They're stark raving mad not to have done this a LONG bloody time ago, and hopefully the additional bugs the community finds and reports in 1.2 will prove it to them.

[Lusted]

CA won't do open beta tests, SEGA like doing all testing inhouse with just using CA/SEGAs testers.

[adamcrusherlee]

i heard that the new patch was going to have a secret code to unlock a magical clown army which during battle uses ballon guns and shoots red noses at the enemy...anybody else here similar news?

[Bijo]

This whole thing stinks! Hmmm, or maybe it's the fish I've been eating just a while ago...

But seriously, I think Odin hits the thing right on the head. Though we can go further even: I speculate the leaked patch was leaked on purpose :P They knew people wanted the damned thing and of course some people will be more impatient and just get it, even if it's unsupported. Now that there are enough people who got the leaked patch they "might as well make use of it" even if the thing wasn't supported. Pfff.... there's no proof for it, but you gotta admit this whole situation stinks!

---edit---
I heard the same thing about that! I think there's gonna be clowns in it, yeah

[Durallan]

Your entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. Yes people downloaded it because they chose too, just like the linked thread given was CA's choice to solicit feedback on the leaked patch, that was broken in the first place by thier own hand.

on a side note I find your tone to be bordering on self rightous, you might want to take a step back from the PC before telling people what parts of thier opinions are "voided" and what they should be "thankful" for.

It takes away and lessens a somewhat logical and well presented argument.

you are indeed entitled to your opinion, I said that your argument was void, not your opinion, there should be a key difference there. I step away form my computer frequently, to go to college, hang out with friends, and sometimes even for food and sleep!

I also never, once if you read my post carefully had the word thankful in my post. I never said you should be thankful, just happy that theyve taken advantage of a situation. I'd also like to say that it was infact a download server that leaked the patch not actually CA SEGA. I think that we all have a right not to be thankful but happy they are going to watch this patch with a little more care than they did 1.0 and 1.1 . Telling someone to be thankful they are doing this would be like saying they aren't getting paid for this, which they are getting paid, so thats not what I said. No what I said was is that I think we should be happy that they are doing the job they are being paid to do which is fix this broken game.

I still wouldn't call this a fiasco, A fiasco is more like my old ISP working for 18 months without a hitch, CEO disappears overseas to some small republic and the company crumbles with my parent just having paid 3 months in advance.

CA's choice to solicit feedback on the leaked patch, that was broken in the first place by thier own hand.

Indeedie, but I'd rather they ask for feeback on the leaked patch than not, you never know they might spot something!

anyway I'm sorry you think I'm self righteous, thats the first complaint of that kind I've had!

[Odin]

Indeedie, but I'd rather they ask for feeback on the leaked patch than not, you never know they might spot something!

anyway I'm sorry you think I'm self righteous, thats the first complaint of that kind I've had!

I dont think your self rightous, I thought your post was moving that direction, if I mis read it I applogize, no offense meant.

Back to the topic, your signature Durallan speaks volumes to my point. You have 4 user created solutions to problems for MTW2. The system of identifying, balancing, and correcting bugs is being done by the community at large.

Thats my point and thats why I think the whole 1.2 business is a fiasco. Why? Should any of the 4 solutions you have in your signature be present at all? Truly, what is the justification for them? Is it because they arent really that bad and they can be modded lets let the game go anyway? (mostly rhetorical questions here).

the point is the release, mod, patch process in the gaming world today is sloppy. Having to pull back a patch on the release date for a crash bug is sloppy, having that patch leaked, is sloppy. Coming out and asking for feedback on the leaked patch is a fiasco in the sense that it screams of the process being broken in the first place.

these problems (lets take the 4 addressed in your sig) shouldnt have been in 1.0, but were. My position is they were because as consumers we not only buy it as is, we are happy to show them even more bugs, on a patch that was pulled back (yadda, yadda) you see where I am coming from?

This whole process is a fiasco.

[Durallan]

I dont think your self rightous, I thought your post was moving that direction, if I mis read it I applogize, no offense meant.

Back to the topic, your signature Durallan speaks volumes to my point. You have 4 user created solutions to problems for MTW2. The system of identifying, balancing, and correcting bugs is being done by the community at large.

Thats my point and thats why I think the whole 1.2 business is a fiasco. Why? Should any of the 4 solutions you have in your signature be present at all? Truly, what is the justification for them? Is it because they arent really that bad and they can be modded lets let the game go anyway? (mostly rhetorical questions here).

the point is the release, mod, patch process in the gaming world today is sloppy. Having to pull back a patch on the release date for a crash bug is sloppy, having that patch leaked, is sloppy. Coming out and asking for feedback on the leaked patch is a fiasco in the sense that it screams of the process being broken in the first place.

these problems (lets take the 4 addressed in your sig) shouldnt have been in 1.0, but were. My position is they were because as consumers we not only buy it as is, we are happy to show them even more bugs, on a patch that was pulled back (yadda, yadda) you see where I am coming from?

This whole process is a fiasco.

actually the only one I would have noticed would have been the ballista/cannon tower problem if I'd never read these forums :P

I really wouldn't have noticed the others, unless they caused a CTD. Not that I'm saying they shouldn't be fixed, Anyway I see your point of view but I'm saying it isn't a fiasco unless they sold the game, it crashed everyones computers and when we looked to them for patches, the phone numbers for the company has turned into a Laundry Company that also makes copper wiring and the employees are on a tropical island or a kingdom of their own making, now THATS a fiasco :P even though they should be fixing it, at least they are which is more than some people bother with. Especially those interested in villas overseas in some small island republic lol.

Unfortunately this is the way of the gaming industry and its beginning to sound like its going to get worse than this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6523565.stm

if any of that is remotely true, you may end up getting games that maybe just come with england and france and for and extra $19.95 USD you can get all the other factions plus the middle east part of the world! in which point if that ever happens I think I'll just give up on gaming in general. Its already happened with Oblivion which aside from its constant crashing, staying unpatched and paying for things that should have been in the game in the first place (at least CA provide it for free) is why I'm not going to buy the expansion.

getting back to the main topic at hand unless there is something else we can do, until the patch is done and out the door (which there isn't anything we can do) then while ranting ma make you feel better, I don't believe its a fiasco, CA may not have given you the complete game that you paid for originally, but at least they are fixing the game to the state that its worth the money we paid for it. Fiasco is someting more like Take 2's backdated stock options thingy :P I don't know if I'm a lone voice or not but meh, this is my opinion!

[Pode]

CA won't do open beta tests, SEGA like doing all testing inhouse with just using CA/SEGAs testers.

Because that's obviously working out SO well for them? Like I said, I really hope the results of this open beta they have been forced into will make them rethink this policy

[Whacker]

One thing I've noticed for sure now - Good lord the General's Bodyguards walk all over everything. I imagine they can be brought down if they get pinned down and then attacked by 2-handers, but that's about the only thing that I think will really be able to dent them substantially. In the early stages of the game I'm having fights where the bodyguards mow through 3-5 units of archers, then a few units of spearmen, and are still well above half capacity (often gaining multiple chevrons along the way). Of course it's not necessarily a bad thing - their armor level is way beyond the level of the rebel units I've been encountering, so they really SHOULD be nigh untouchable at this point. They should remain potent as the game goes on, but units with higher attack values should be able to do sufficient damage to take them down without going to ridiculous lengths. I will say, though, that it just got a lot more handy to have a general or 4 along with every attack. Even wading through melee in the streets, they seem considerably better than before...

I couldn't remember who'd posted this until I read back in this thread. I gotta say the same thing I said to Quickening; are we playing the same game??

So for craps and giggles I loaded up my last game which is using the BigMap mod (doesn't modify unit stats), and assaulted the small city north of Edinburgh. Garrison is 3 units of highlanders, 2 peasant archers, and 1 peasants. Should be easy picking, no? Holy crap, my king and faction heir get eaten alive in the 4 times I tried to assault, using my generals as the attackers. Every time, my king died 3 of the 4 times, my heir died. That's before 50% of the enemy is dead too. That's even on easy too! My guys must be made out of porcelain instead of steel.

[TinCow]

Nearly 500 posts in here and a new thread has been started with updated info. Let's move all the Patch 1.2 discussion over there.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=83211