Imperial Diet III

[econ21]

[OOC] This thread is for players in the King of the Romans PBM to post in character public deliberations in the Imperial Diet. All out of character debate should be conducted in the OOC thread.

The Diet has two main functions: to elect a Chancellor, who manage the Empire, and to pass Edicts that will direct the Chancellor.

The Diet will be chaired by the Kaiser or, while he is in the Levant, by the Diet Speaker. The Prinz may deputise if both are unavailable.

Edicts need to be formally proposed as follows:

Edict 9.1This House directs the Chancellor to occupy Hamburg.

where 9.1 refers to the first proposed edict of the ninth session of the Diet.

Edicts need two seconders (who should explicitly use the word "second" when supporting a motion) before they can be put to the vote. Where edicts conflict, the one with more votes takes precedence.

*****

List of edicts and charter amendments proposed in the Ninth Diet.

*Charter Amendment 9.1:

The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo, Edessa and Damascus.

2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward).

5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.2, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The King will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count.

7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain an additional +1 influence (over and above any influence for being a Count of a European settlement) but only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 5 influence for all but the Emperor remains.

Proposed: Kaiser Henry
Seconded: Arnold, Maximilian von Tyrolia


*Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:

In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.

Proposed: Kaiser Henry
Seconded: Otto von Kassel, Prinz Jobst


Charter Amendment 9.3:

Army of the Chancellor's Office

The member in who is elected Chancellor will have a special Army assigned to his office and will only be in charge of that Army till his term in office ends and a new Chancellor is elected.

1) The Chancellor’s Army may not be removed from the HRE proper without the permission of the Emperor.
2) The Chancellor will determine where the Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time in accordance with the needs of defense of the Empire.
3) The Chancellor will command the Army but at this discretion may assign a noble to lead that army. An example being if the Chancellor is not physical in HRE Europe he may have a noble in charge but movements would be that of the Chancellor.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Chancellor may assign general orders to the Army. The Chancellor may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House to defend. If Order (4) is chosen, the Chancellor may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment. When the time limit expires, the Chancellor Army must be immediately returned to homeland defence duties, no matter what other circumstances occur.
5) The Chancellor Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiment. The Chancellor Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Chancellor Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Chancellor Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Army’s full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Chancellor Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Emperor.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Chancellor Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Emperor and receive their permission to reduce the Chancellor Army in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

Proposed: Karl Zirn


*Charter Amendment 9.4:

Each Duke may designate a Second Household Army during a Diet session. The military formation that can be designated as a Second Household Army is subject to the following conditions:

1. The formation must be within the territory of the Duchy.
2. The formation must be commanded by an Army Commander belonging to the Duchy.
3. The formation must be at least 6 regiments in strength at the time of designation.

Proposed: Gunther von Kastilien
Seconded: Arnold, Anselhelm von Kastilien


Charter Ammendment 9.5: "Three independent Crusader lordships shall be carved out of the Outremer:

The Principality of Antioch, consisting of Antioch itself and all Cilicia(Adana)
The County of Tripoli, consisting of Lebanon(Acre).
The County of Edessa, consisting of Mesoptamia(Edessa).

These lordships shall be autonomous parts of the Reich.

As such, they are authorised to:

Maintain a standing army of at least 8 units.
Issue orders for their standing army.
Dictate the order of construction in their settlements.
Appoint their successors.
Decide what fortifications(forts and watchtowers) shall be constructed in their realm.
Elect a King of the Outremer from among their number to oversee the Council of Crusaders.
Debate legislation in the Council of Crusaders, which if passed must be followed the Imperial Diet."

Proposed: Ulrich Hummel


Edict 9.1:

The Reich shall create a Grand Army of Iberia under the same minimum troop levels and limitations as Household Armies. The army shall sail to Iberia and make landfall on Moorish or Spanish land, where they can conquer all non-Portuguese cities. As a token of our good will and for economic safety, at least one city or castle bordering the Mediterranean shall be granted back to Portugal. These lands shall not be granted to any house until Iberia is cleansed of Moors or Spaniards, and thus will remain under direct Imperial control.

Proposed: Maximilian von Tyrolia


*Edict 9.2: Prinz Jobst is hereby barred from having any military command for the entirety of the upcoming Chancellor's term.

Proposed: Conrad Salier
Seconded: Anselhelm von Kastilien, Bavarian Lawyer (TinCow)


*Edict 9.3: The Chancellor must dispatch armies and/or fleets to aid our Allies in battle. By the end of his term, the Chancellor must have somehow managed to lend military assistance to an ally that is attacking or being attacked by a foe. (At least one army or fleet of the HRE must act as reinforcements to an ally where the battle was not initiated by the HRE.)

Proposed: Bavarian Lawyer (TinCow)
Seconded: Maximilian von Tyrolia, Otto von Kassel


*Edict 9.4: A spy will be dispatched to Denmark to investigate the causes of the Danish incident. The battlefield will also be examined for possible clues and the Prinz and his commanders will be questioned as to the events of that day.

Proposed: Otto von Kassel
Seconded: Arnold, Leopold


Edict 9.5:

More effort shall be put into the defense of the Reich's home borders. At the moment we have the Hungarians, the Poles and the Rus at our Eastern Borders and due to the mistake by the Prinz we got into trouble with the Danes in the North and West. Next to that we also have our French enemies in the West. In order to secure home security the following will be done:
1. More effort shall be put into fighting the Eastern Barbarians. This is done by allowing the Franconian and Austrian Household Armies to open the attack to the East.
2. If Edict 9.2 doesn't get through the Prinz will move his army to the East to fight the Rus. The addition of his army on our Eastern Front will easely tip the balance in our favour.
3. We shall start a Teutonic Crusade against the Barbarians and drive them back to their steps. The Steppes are open and big. Once there our Eastern Border will be more then well secured and we won't have to worry about the Barbarians anymore.
4. The Teutonic Crusade does not have to be an official Crusade sponsored by the Pope, we are more then capable to do it on our own.The Prinz's army could act as the Crusade army. He of course will get additional units of Teutonic Knights.

Proposed: Ansehelm von Kastilien


*Edict 9.6:

From the men assembled in Ragusa a Crusade for Damascus will be created as soon as possible. Any general wishing to join the Crusade shall be able to particpate. The Crusade will take the fastest possible route towards Outremere.

Proposed: Leopold
Seconded: Otto von Kassel, Hans


Edict 9.7: The House of Swabia will be allowed to take French territories until they plea for peace or is reconciled.

Proposed: Friedrich Scherer

*********************************************************
Diet Speaker: How time flies! I hope that my Lords have noticed that Kaiser Henry has posted his first Chancellor's report. While he is currently in the Levant and not able to attend this Diet in person, he would welcome deliberation and debate on our progress and predicaments in his absence.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

So far your term as Chancellor has started well, it seems we have never had a rotten chancellor!

I first of all, congratulate you,Kaiser, on your spectacular win over the heathens.

Now to what you say on your term. I like the idea of..modernising the Household Armies. Your idea also of dicthing the peasent troops seems good as well, they were mere fodder.

But I don't like this idea of money for peace with Venice and Milan. Our treasury is quite low as of now, we need not to beg for peace from then, even to please The Pope. The Pope is already pleased with The Reich!! It is money needed here for The Reich's defense and economic growth.I say they come begging on their knees!

I say we let them squel in their little hidey holes on those wrecthed islands!

Prinz Jobst sits

[OverKnight]

Gunther nods and speaks:

My master the Duke agrees with the Prinz. If we need florins to modernize our forces, we should not be spending one florin more than 5,000 on the Milanese. If they refuse the sanctioned amount, we should continue on to the second part of edict 8.1. We could put the money gained from sacking Corsica and selling Sardinia to the Sicilians to good use while enhancing our security.

[AussieGiant]

A young man stands in the livery of the Duke of Austria, he bares a striking resemblance to the Duke in fact, he begins speaking in a rather nervous voice

As the Count of Venice is away in Sweden he has asked me to read the following message My Lords.

“Kaiser Henry, My Prince, Dukes of the Reich, Diet Speaker, Counts and Electors,

And so the blood shed begins in earnest.

I must congratulate the Kaiser for an outstanding victory against the Egyptian forces.

Regarding his statements in the Chancellor report I would like to make the following comments.

Points one through three are commendable and necessary. I have already begun to see a dramatic increase in our own economy now that many obsolete units are not being paid by the treasury. Of course this new surplus is now being immediately reinvested in new troops, but the sacking of Antioch has reaped a large profit.

It is point four that I would like to address in more detail. While I understand we are bound by edict to disengage from the Moors, I would like to do this in the most honourable way possible. Having invested much time in lucrative trade between out nations I would like to, at the very least, not jeopardise this work. Additionally we do need to begin some form of engagement with our European and Christian brothers. If we are to focus our military might against the Islamic nations we must develop strong and sustaining relations with our more like minded brothers. In the short term this will be somewhat costly, but in the long term we must create this type of structure if we are to sustain our military in the East AND at home.

I recommend a series of diplomatic engagements to “sound out” those nations with whom we could improve our relations with as small an investment as possible. Think of it as a foreign policy scheme in which we are trying to assess what our maximum return on diplomatic investment would be.

We need a reputation of good standing in order for our merchant class and therefore our economy to flourish. The initial costs we bare now will be returned with much greater interest in the mid to long term.

I'd also like to note the position the Kaiser has bestowed on....ahhh Prinz Ulrich...are there constitutional issues to discuss with this declaration? Do we have a second realm beginning in the East?”


With a confident finish the young man stops speaking…realises there is nothing more to say and takes a seat. A few of the Venitian Count’s entourage whisper words of encouragement and slap his back appreciatively.

[Stig]

The young man Ansehelm stands and speaks

"Mein Kaiser, mein Prinz und meine Herren, some of you have spoken the wish to modernise our Household armies. While in itself this is a good idea we must remember that we will spend loads of money in what will happen the following years. We wish to make peace with the Milanese, however if they refuse we want to send an expedition to attack them. We wish to attack Krakow, and for this we need seige weapons. We wish to attack the French and in order for this to succeed we need to spend money. We wish peace with Venetia, but if they refuse we want to attack them as well.
And I'm not even speaking of our crusade against the Muslim.

This all means we are spending a great amount of money on warfare and making peace, while at this we are also spending money on upgrading the armies that need to attack.

I suggest we first have our armies attack and see what we're left with. That money can then be put into replacing the armies. Units of obsolete soldiers that have recieved many damage can be retreated to cities and serve as garrisons, while they are not reinforced by new units and merge with other damaged units. Their places can then be taken by the new units. This is the cheapest and most effective way if we want to stay our of the red."

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

While I agree that the Household Armies do need to be modernized, I think there is a more pressing point in regards to these armies: namely, their use. I am sure that some of the elder Electors present can recall the initial discussion of the Household Armies in the Session of 1140. It was made clear by its primary advocates that the Armies were to be used primarily for defense. Defense of the homeland, especially.

But look where we are today. Mein Duke Otto, I respect you in many ways, but it seems that this is one flaw of yours. You have sent the Bavarian Household Army far from Bavaria to conquer the islands of the Milanese, and now they have caught us with our trousers down. I shall try to make due with what is available, but generally the Household Armies were designed to deal with this sort of situation.

[OverKnight]

Gunther, glancing over at Conrad with a raised eyebrow, turns to speak to the Diet:

The timing of the Milanese offensive is unfortunate. I would remind the Diet that unless the Bavarian Household Army is currently engaged on Corsica, the first priority is the defense of Bavaria, as laid out in the orders given by Duke von Kassel.

I would also respectfully remind the Kaiser that no time table is laid out in edict 8.1, he has 18 years now to complete it. While I am glad that the Milanese flotilla was attacked, I am curious as to why we did not pursue them when he knew there was an invasion force on the fleet and make immediate landfall of the BHA near where they were anchored. Now that this option is gone, If the BHA can embark and land near the Milanese landing force to face them in battle, my Duke asks that it be done. The second part of the edict can be fulfilled once their army is dispersed.

Edict 8.1 was passed by this body, and the latest actions by the Milanese show why their constant threat to the Reich must be removed permanently. Any peace with them, particularly at such a high price, would most likely be broken eventually, and we would face the same situation in the future.

It is the Diet's responsibility to pass edicts that benefit the Reich, it is the Chancellor's responsibility to execute those edicts while maintaining the defense of the Reich.

Thank you.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: Duke Otto's question on the matter of the crisis with Milan reveals that the Kaiser's report on the events of 2002 was regrettably incomplete.

The sequence of events was as follows. The Imperial navy of the western Mediterranean spotted a Milanese army embarked on a fleet anchored in the straits beween Corsica and Sardinia. The navy and Bavarian Household Army were based in the frontier settlement of Marseilles, quite far from the vulnerable Italian heartlands by land.

Given the Duke's refusal to continue negotiations with Milan, the decision was made to strike quickly and implement his edict to the letter by landing the BHA on Corsica. It was hoped this move would induce the Milanese to also disembark from their anchorage off southern Corsica and defend their homelands.

However, after landing the BHA, our navy found it would be able to catch the Milanese fleet unawares. The chance of sinking their army at sea was too tempting to resist. Unfortunately, the cowards fled after their defeat. What was not anticipated was that they would flee northwards, right next to Genoa.

The Duke asks why the Milanese fleet was not pursued and the BHA not landed near where the Milanese were anchored? I hope he can now understand that the BHA fleet was landed near where the Milanese were anchored - that is to say, in Corsica. The immediate threat to Italy only emerged later when the Milanese armada fled north after their defeat at sea. The Imperial fleet was not able to pursue because it is impossible to sail from Marseilles to Genoa, via the straits between Corsica and Sardinia, in the relevant time frame.

[Warluster]

Jobst laughs out aloud, then stands

Uh, the strife we get ourselves into!

Jobst chuckles some more

I think that clears the air of all worries, but anyway, what was done was done, we can't stop that noww, let us look back to the future!

Though I would be insanely intrested to know two things I don't know, are the Milanese still on the islands? And what of the Veneatians?

Prinz Jobst sits, and calls of one of his aides, and Jobst stands and leaves, while the aide sits and listens

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: I have a sad announcement to make. I regret to announce that at the close of 1202 AD, Maximillan Mandorf passed away peacefully in his sleep in Adana.

It is no exaggeration to say he was our own St Paul - a man who first rigorously condemned the church and then promoted it with the same rigour. Above all, he will be remembered for inspiring the crusade to Jerusalem, a crusade which repaired our relations with the Papacy and led to the foundation of the Kingdom of Outremer. Mandorf's presence on this earth as a guardian of the one true path will be sorely missed.

[AussieGiant]

It's a sad day gentlemen.

Maximillan Mandorf was one of our great leaders. A man of conviction and presence. There was never a better member of the Diet in all matters of State and Religion. He will be greatly missed by all.

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian von Tyrolia speaks:

Maximillian Mandorf was my namesake! It strikes me deeply that he should go, but I am glad he lived a long fulfilling life. It will be difficult for our young generals to take up his cross and continue his work.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst's aide stands, his head bowed,reading a urgent message from Prinz Jobst

Your life was long Maximillian, and in my opinion awarding and rewarding, you served your Duchy and The Reich truely well, you made the Holy Crusade possible and easier, and you gained lands near and far from The Reich.

Rest in Peace Maxmillian, I hope your rest is more peaceful then your life.

Prinz Jobst's aide sits

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian von Tyrolia:
I am most curious to hear about how the Kingdom of Outremer is doing - has Antioch, its planned capital, fallen to our forces yet?

[GeneralHankerchief]

*At the mention of the death of Maximillian Mandorf, Conrad Salier pales and excuses himself from the Diet.*

[OverKnight]

Gunther looks aghast at the news of Maximillian's death:

A terrible blow to Bavaria and the Reich. I have a letter from my master:

By now, the news has reached the Diet of the death of my friend and mentor Maximillian Mandorf. I will miss him. We have had our differences, but through it all I could count on his unrelenting commitment to the Reich and Bavaria. We knew that when he set his mind to something, nothing would prevent the completion of that task. He was not a man for half measures, and while this sometimes made him a royal pain in the arse, because of it, he accomplished great deeds. Nothing stood in his way, Turks, rebellious Dukes, obstinate Kaisers, he outlasted them all.

He was a fearsome General and a deft administrator, his Chancellorship provided a beacon of light in dark times while both the Crusade and the Household Armies were his creations. I owe what I am to him, and I hope he has found his Heavenly reward. Rest in peace, Maximillian.

Otto von Kassel

[Ituralde]

I am saddened to hear of the death of Maximilian Mandorf. He was one of the most avid critics of the Pope and later in life one of his most devout and pious followers. As Steward of Bavaria and later Count of Nuremburg he has been an integral part of the House of Bavaria and shall be missed by the other Houses as well as his own. Without him our Crusade would not have been led so vigoriously and so righteously. I find it only fitting that he was promoting Christendom to the heathens until his final breath. The House of Austria is in mourning over the passing of such a great man!

[FactionHeir]

*The servant rises to read a newly arrived letter form Hans*

My fellow lords,

It is with great sorrow that news of death of the esteemed Count Mandorf have been taken up both by myself and the men at my camp. He was a devout follower of Christendom and one of its most stout defenders. His passing will be mourned throughout the empire, and I am certain, also by the more chivalrous of our heathen and Christian foes. His creation of the council of crusaders and his work in the outremer however will outlive and continue to emanate the light he has brought with him to this world.

[Stuperman]

A Bavarian Messenger enters, bearing a message from Gerhard Steffen

Fellow Electors

It is with the deepest of sadness that I learn that Maximillian Mandorf has died, The whole of the BHA grieves for him. Though we rarely agreed on religion, his sence duty to the riech, and Command accumen were both admired by many, myself included. He would take Comfort knowing his eternal soul is assured redemption.

Gerhard Steffen

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst walks into the Diet, and sits,then stands

The Kaiser has marched onto Jerusalem! The Holy City which even the Papal Bull coudn't keep for himself! I pray The Kaiser and the brave Generals over there do their work...finely.

Jobst smiles, after hearing about the latest problems

Let us hope the Kingdom of Outremer can survive,within and without.

Jobst sits

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian's aide:

I have just received another letter from my master. It reads:

Lords,
The most recent news regarding our fine Kaiser and Chancellor troubles me deeply. I do not hold in the least with his consorting with that pagan magician, Dusan Kolar, and his practice in the arcane arts. My dear electors, if the Chancellor oversteps his power in any way, or performs any actions harming any Generals or our relations with the Pope, I urge you to move towards his impeachment. I am a mere merchant, but I know what is good and what is bad for the Reich.

Maximillian von Tyrolia, 5th Elector of Austria, from Gaza.

[TevashSzat]

Forgive me for my lateness in paying my respects to Maximillion, but things has been busy as I have been preparing for an invasion of France. He was a fine man who always kept the interests of the Empire and Church at heart and I have no doubt of his revered status in the future to come.

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian's aide speaks:

I know my master and before the Diet lashes out at him - this is not a call for impeachment. It is warning against the Kaiser's character, so similar to that of Heinrich before him, may he rest in peace.

Maximillian's aide retires from the Diet.

[AussieGiant]

I must say the Austrian Merchant class is becoming rather bold in their dealings with the Royal Family.

I have always preached engagement with the ruling class but, I never thought the young men would interpret things this way.

[OverKnight]

Guther reads a message from Otto:

Prinz Jobst and my fellow Electors, I wish to announce that I have chosen Gerhard Steffen, Count of Genoa, as my heir. He has served Bavaria and the Reich loyally, won great victories against the Venetians and Hungarians, seized Marseille without a battle in a coup de main and most recently forced the Milanese to beg for peace. He is a skillful General and a noble Ruler. The sacrifices he has made in Corsica only served to cement my decision.

If the Diet chooses to ratify my appointment in Outremer, he will serve as Steward of Bavaria, and one day he will follow me as Duke.

Congratulations Count Steffen, you have most certainly earned it.

Otto von Kassel

[Warluster]

I see nothing wrong with that, as Count Steffen as indeed given the Reich many things. I am sure others have no objections...?

[Stuperman]

Erik Von Stackelberg, Gerhard Steffen's most trusted body gaurd lumbers in to the Diet

"I come bearing a message from my lord, he regrets not being able to be here himself, but he is dealing with some rebels north of Rome" his voice booms

"Field Marshal Steffen humbly accepts the title of Steward of the House of Bavaria, and will use this appointment ensure that continued prosparity(sp) reigns throughout Bavaria and the Riech." the large man continued.

Erik turns to Guther

"My general regrets that he connot thank Duke Otto in person, but if you would be good enough to pass along his message of Gratitude, Appreciation, and Congradulations for his New title of King of Outremer."

With that Von Stackelberg takes his leave to rejoin the BHA.

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian's aide stands, with a letter in his hand:

Lords, I have a letter from my master from Northern Egypt, which I recently shared in Vienna, capital of Austria.

"Nobles, I am but a mere merchant of the upper middle class, but I have lots of big ideas for the Empire.

Our allies, the Portuguese, have been plagued by our old enemies, the Moors, for too long. I believe we should send an Grand Iberian Army of the Reich to aid them in their plight as a token of our good will and to spread Catholicism and Eastern influence. This will also be an excellent way to open up a second front against the French so we may all attack in concert with the Swabian armies.

Maximillian von Tyrolia, 5th Elector, from Egypt."

Aide sits down.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: Electors, grave news from Franconia! The great fortress of Thorn has been seized by the Russians in a bold coup de main! Duke Kastilien is marching the Franconian Household Army back north from Krakow province. The only small consolation is that the Russians have chosen to occupy, not sack or exterminate the fortress.

[FactionHeir]

Servant

How dare these ... these.. barbarians take what is ours! I am sure my master would strongly disapprove of their actions!

At least they let the populace live... we must pray they overthrow the invaders before we do.