Trapped in Taormina [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 4

Omanes Alexandrapolites

05-16-2008, 21:48

Trusting people based upon their generation of the townie PM is not a very wise move. Although I do not doubt Elite Ferret, the PM is available from here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1913788#post1913788). It should not be considered a confirmation of innocence at any rate.

The bandwagon on axel is simply unfounded - if you look at his profile (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=8899), he hasn't visited for the past three days and the number of kills have, if anything, increased to the highest possible level based upon what we know. I think we can presume that he hasn't killed anyone recently.
Errr, it´s right there.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...57#post1921857 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1921857#post1921857)Sorry, I was posting when you were posting resulting in me failing to notice that. My appologies for the oversight.

Back on topic, the response does, from my perspective, not have classical mafia characteristics so I think it may be safe to presume innocence for now.

Unvote: Haudgen ; Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

My trust in Sasaki has deteriorated over the past few days. His earlier prostitute claim may be genuine, and may make him appear innocent, but somehow I think that Sasaki seemed to reveal that at a very convenient time. He's a cunning mafioso, so I wouldn't put deception on that level past him.

His change of vote to axel also doesn't make me more willing to trust him. He clearly hasn't looked into it very well - either that or he's delibarately trying to get rid of a player.

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 22:01

The bandwagon on axel is simply unfounded - if you look at his profile (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=8899), he hasn't visited for the past three days and the number of kills have, if anything, increased to the highest possible level based upon what we know. I think we can presume that he hasn't killed anyone recently.Sorry, I was posting when you were posting resulting in me failing to notice that. My appologies for the oversight.

N4 started 05-14-2008, 15:27 on my computer.

Axel's Last Activity: 05-13-2008 15:32

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that he sent Andres a PM one day ahead of time.

Plus, he really should have been WoG'd with TB and Zorg.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-16-2008, 22:02

Indeed, I haven't looked into axel closely. My vote was a reaction the the little grizzly wagon which I found to be bad. After Husar and with TinCow (I think) cleared I have no main suspect. I'm wary of reckless pursuit after day 2.

I will unvote axel based on the activity evidence.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-16-2008, 22:03

N4 started 05-14-2008, 15:27 on my computer.

Axel's Last Activity: 05-13-2008 15:32

Now I'm confused again hold on.

wait, what's your point? Axel did indeed go inactiv before the beginning of night 4.

nm, I read your "plus," as being on the second line instead of the last. Ignore this.

Makanyane

05-16-2008, 22:09

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that he sent Andres a PM one day ahead of time.

I don't believe that Andres would have taken an order for a kill a day ahead.... a request not to WoG due to RL maybe though... (?) so that still rules him out of being one of our bad guys doesn't it, as if we assume 00jebus was one carelli we're still at max possible attacks.

Ferret

05-16-2008, 22:13

Actually I'm gonna unvote:Axel

I just read his pre-game posts and he didn't seem to have a clue what was going on, he thought you had to download the game :laugh4:

If he was really that new to mafia and hasn't showed up since, or had the rules properly explained to him, I doubt he is any of the importnat roles. However if he is still not WoGed by the next day then I shall reconsider.

axel

05-16-2008, 22:16

well hello
ye thats right i am inocent i am not maffia i am just carefull wot i vote, but it seems that Husar is aiming to lynch somebody, makes me wonder way:inquisitive: but i UNVOTE AXEL
I VOTE HUSAR reason: hasting to lynch sommeone just wot maffia dose suspect a other so they dont suspect him !

Cheers all

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 22:18

well hello
ye thats right i am inocent i am not maffia i am just carefull wot i vote, but it seems that Husar is aiming to lynch somebody, makes me wonder way:inquisitive:

Careful what you vote? You have never voted. You never even spoke until now.

Well, at least we got you talking.

unvote: Axel

Sasaki Kojiro

05-16-2008, 22:19

How much time is left? I'm debating whether it's worth it to do a reread now.

Vote:sarathos

(who has visited ~:clown:)

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 22:20

it should end any minute.

axel

05-16-2008, 22:22

Hi Elite Ferret
you right there mate i never played this game, and i work all day and got a family, so when i wanted to play this game this topic wos 13 pages futher allreddy, so its dificalt to get in a game if you dont know wot to do and its allreddy 13 pages futher .
So a read a lot but its not good to just vote somme one :no: so i try to vote if i suspect somme one for shure

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 22:25

the last few minutes before voting ends are getting to be the most amusing part of my day

:beam:

Makanyane

05-16-2008, 22:27

axel: 4 ( pevergreen, LittleGrizzly, Northnovas, Husar)

LittleGrizzly: 2 (Rythmic, Makanyane)
sarathos: 2 (Mithrandir, Sasaki Kojiro, )
Sasaki: 1 (Omanes)
Haudegen: 1 (TinCow, Prole)

pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
husar: 1 (axel)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

think that might be current situation - not sure

Ferret

05-16-2008, 22:28

no worries Axel, I've been there before. In my first game I was Don Tataglia in the biggest mafia game ever :beam:

edit: and I thank Makanyane for saving me in that game.

axel

05-16-2008, 22:31

Thx Elite Ferret
just learning mate:2thumbsup:

Makanyane

05-16-2008, 22:38

no worries Axel, I've been there before. In my first game I was Don Tataglia in the biggest mafia game ever :beam:

edit: and I thank Makanyane for saving me in that game.
think it was Charge that was most help as I was newb too.... but am remembering you were quite good at getting away with being stealthy undetected mafia in that, despite inexperience....... :beadyeyes2:

If I got tally right our current voters on Axel: are amongst the other most suspected list - does anyone want to change in available time?

pevergreen

05-16-2008, 22:42

Unvote: Axel, Vote: Sarathos

I've seen you on the org, reading this thread. I know you have very little work at the moment. Why arent you posting?

Andres

05-16-2008, 22:45

Voting will last for another 30 minutes or so.

Makanyane

05-16-2008, 22:45

axel: 3 ( LittleGrizzly, Northnovas, Husar)
sarathos: 3 (pevergreen, Mithrandir, Sasaki Kojiro, )

LittleGrizzly: 2 (Rythmic, Makanyane)
Sasaki: 1 (Omanes)
Haudegen: 1 (TinCow, Prole)

pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
husar: 1 (axel)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

.....maybe new totals

Ferret

05-16-2008, 22:45

ah yes good ol' Charge. Well good until he trusted Caius and got me killed :clown:

vote:sarathos just in case Axel is still ahead.

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 22:54

New totals and cleaned it up a little.

sarathos: 4 (Mithrandir, Sasaki Kojiro, pevergreen, Elite Ferret)

axel: 3 (LittleGrizzly, Northnovas, Husar)

LittleGrizzly: 2 (Rythmic, Makanyane)
Haudegen: 2 (TinCow, Proletariat)

pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
Husar: 1 (Axel)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

Northnovas

05-16-2008, 22:56

Just cathcing up on the current post.

unvote:axel
vote:Haudegen

Going on a hunch!

Makanyane

05-16-2008, 22:57

moving to make sure - it seems as I finally got search function to work that sarathos has never voted...
unvote LG, vote:sarathos

sarathos: 5 (Mithrandir, Sasaki Kojiro, pevergreen, Elite Ferret, makanyane)

axel: 3 (LittleGrizzly, Northnovas, Husar)

Haudegen: 2 (TinCow, Proletariat)

pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
Husar: 1 (Axel)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (Rythmic)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 22:58

Both Haudagen and Sarathos need to be more active. I say let random.org sort it out.

vote: Haudagen

new tally:

sarathos: 5 (Mithrandir, Sasaki Kojiro, pevergreen, Elite Ferret, Makanyane)
Haudegen: 4 (TinCow, Proletariat, Northnovas, Privateerkev)

axel: 2 (LittleGrizzly, Husar)

LittleGrizzly: 1 (Rythmic)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
Husar: 1 (Axel)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

Makanyane

05-16-2008, 22:59

bugger - I give up on trying to do tally....

Ferret

05-16-2008, 22:59

oh oh oh, pever was third on the bandwagon, he must be guilty!

:clown: (I hate that rule)

edit:Mak, switch your vote to haudegen for a double lynch, that would be waaaay cooler :beam:

Makanyane

05-16-2008, 23:03

unvote:sarathos

for double lynch - or hosts choice.....

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 23:04

It is now the battle of the Lurkers!!!!!

Who will win in this epic titanic struggle between two men who have done almost nothing!

:clown:

sarathos: 4 (Mithrandir, Sasaki Kojiro, pevergreen, Elite Ferret)
Haudegen: 4 (TinCow, Proletariat, Northnovas, Privateerkev)

axel: 2 (LittleGrizzly, Husar)

LittleGrizzly: 1 (Rythmic)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
Husar: 1 (Axel)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

Sasaki Kojiro

05-16-2008, 23:06

oh oh oh, pever was third on the bandwagon, he must be guilty!

:clown: (I hate that rule)

edit:Mak, switch your vote to haudegen for a double lynch, that would be waaaay cooler :beam:

What's wrong with haudegen? I chose sarathos because we had a limited time to avoid an axel lynch which would have resulted in townie death. Sarathos is another lurker, but haudegen is here and posting, so you'll need a legit argument against him.

Eh, I guess haudegen only has 7 posts. There way closer than I thought.

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 23:07

Haudegen has been suspicious in his own right.

I am content with letting random.org settle this.

TinCow

05-16-2008, 23:09

It occurs to me that there's something else worth discussing here that we've passed over: Manfredo, the Hitman. His objective is to kill Juliette and then survive the game. The role description indicates that he can probably keep killing after Juliette is gone, but it is worded in such a way as to make it seem like he can go pro-town or pro-mafia. Juliette is now dead. That means Manfredo may be a free-agent. Under the circumstances, I would like to make a statement to Manfredo, whoever he is.

To Manfredo:

It is in your interests to go pro-town. Your main objective requires you to survive. The town is the only group that has access to a role that can protect you from mafia hits. In addition, the mafia is a serious danger to you while they continue to kill us at night. They could kill you by sheer luck while targeting the rest of us. It is in your interests to help us kill them. Do the town and yourself a favor and please start targeting people who have not been posting much. Even if they are townies, they are not helping us because they are not speaking and not voting. Eliminating them will help both the town and you.

Andres

05-16-2008, 23:09

Voting ended. Stand by for execution.

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 23:12

*edit*

nevermind. time is up.

Sigurd

05-16-2008, 23:15

I sent you no such PM.

Now I know you are scum because that was a blantant lie. :whip:
That makes the person requesting I change the result on you, an accomplice of yours.

It is impossible. Townies can not be seen as "out of the house but innocent."

Again how do you know this? Different roles receives different answers to their investigations.
Manfredo apparently only receives only yes or no to his. Mine was about people being home and a little added gem which said something about alignment. I have not lied in this. The results I posted are correct.

I have long suspected that there are roles in the game that are not up on the first post. If your Taketsi, you could have a yakuza buddy running around on the loose. Perhaps you were allowed to recruit before you got lynched.
Hmmm... long suspected? You have to fill us in on this lead of yours. Of course since I now know you lie about stuff, you are now on the top of my list over possible mafia. Did you slip up?

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 23:20

Now I know you are scum because that was a blantant lie. :whip:
That makes the person requesting I change the result on you, an accomplice of yours.

Whatever you say Taketsi. I'm so happy to see a Mafia member try to be so pro-town. *sarcasm*

Again how do you know this? Different roles receives different answers to their investigations.
Manfredo apparently only receives only yes or no to his. Mine was about people being home and a little added gem which said something about alignment. I have not lied in this. The results I posted are correct.

More lies. This is getting old.

Hmmm... long suspected? You have to fill us in on this lead of yours. Of course since I now know you lie about stuff, you are now on the top of my list over possible mafia. Did you slip up?

Sorry, I am now deeming you a waste of my time. If you have anything worthwhile to add to the discourse, please let me know.

TinCow

05-16-2008, 23:25

Sigurd makes a very good point here, PK. Why exactly do you think there are multiple members of the yakuza? The phrase "Perhaps you were allowed to recruit before you got lynched" strikes me as intentional verbage, yet such an ability is not mentioned in the rules/role descriptions, nor has anyone ever mentioned it in this thread as far as I am aware. You are now not only claiming that the yakuza have an ability that has never been mentioned by anyone, but you also seem very certain about it. That doesn't strike me as coincidental.

Sigurd

05-16-2008, 23:27

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 23:30

I am tempted to put peeveerkev on my ignore list. But I will consider this a challenge.
It is he that is lying.
I received a pm from Sasaki asking to remove PK's name from my list. I did and received a thank you pm from PK.
I urge the town to heed my warning. PK and Sasaki is in this together.

I have been thinking about this. Perhaps you lied about all three entries. You have Pevergreen as innocent but why should we believe you? Perhaps Pever is your yakuza minion.

You can make up all the PM claims you like. I believe your Taketsi and trying to mess with the town.

Sigurd makes a very good point here, PK. Why exactly do you think there are multiple members of the yakuza? The phrase "Perhaps you were allowed to recruit before you got lynched" strikes me as intentional verbage, yet such an ability is not mentioned in the rules/role descriptions, nor has anyone ever mentioned it in this thread as far as I am aware. You are now not only claiming that the yakuza have an ability that has never been mentioned by anyone, but you also seem very certain about it. That doesn't strike me as coincidental.

It's a hunch. Other games do it so why not this one? Everyone is jumping to assumptions so I am keeping my mind open that maybe our GM has surprises for us.

Makanyane

05-16-2008, 23:33

I urge the town to heed my warning. PK and Sasaki is in this together.
how can PK and Sasaki be in anything together? - if we accept - that Ichigo was right - 00jebus was a killer, then he had to be one of the two carellis - no one else makes sense as working in pairs unless they are ignoring their role pm....

so far the most likely to be ignoring role pm is you who stated you were 'just honing skills for next game' or something similar - I haven't got round to looking for quote

Sasaki Kojiro

05-16-2008, 23:36

Privateerkev

05-16-2008, 23:44

I am tempted to put peeveerkev on my ignore list.

Oh my god, are we in junior high?

When you lie... people stop believing what you say.

You claim that you can investigate but your not the detective.

You write the claims out instead of copy/pasting.

You hint your yakuza but shout out warnings to the town.

You make up stories about PM's and accomplices.

Your mad that your little bandwagon on Husar did not develop so now your turning your sights on me.

*edit*

OOC: I took out some of the more "heated" comments. I realize those could have been taken OOC and I do not wish for that to happen. Everything said in this thread is IC and I hope no one takes any of this personally. :bow:

Andres

05-17-2008, 00:01

Day 4 - Conclusion

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Taormina-PortaMessina.jpg

Porta Messina - Taormina - 11.45 p.m.

The good people of Taormina were getting really upset and the screams for blood grew louder and louder.

The towns' inquisition started a witchhunt and it seemed like axel, the silent, shy guy in the corner was spending the last few hours of his live.

The poor chap finally started to talk. He seemed like a regular, nice guy and people started to change their minds. After long deliberation, the inhabitants of Taormina presented Pino two suspects: Haudegen and Sarathos.

Pino stared at the two men brought to him. As he kept staring without saying a word, the crowd went silent.

The world consisted of Pino, the two suspects and the little silver coin in Pino's hand.

The coin was flipped. He looked at the coin, took his gun and pointed it at the suspects.

The crowd seemed to hold its' breath. All eyes were on Pino's sun reflecting gun.

BANG!

Haudegen screamed in panic, while Sarathos fell on his knees, an amazed look in his eyes while he watched the hole in his chest.

BANG!

The bullet between Sarathos' eyes made an end at his life. Pino holstered his gun and left the scene, shaking his head.

The people of Taormina went back to their hotelrooms, hoping for a peacefull night.

****

Tally:

sarathos: 4 :skull: (Mithrandir, Sasaki Kojiro, pevergreen, Elite Ferret)

Haudegen: 4 (TinCow, Proletariat, Northnovas, Privateerkev)

axel: 2 (LittleGrizzly, Husar)

LittleGrizzly: 1 (Rythmic)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
Husar: 1 (axel)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

Not voting : 7 (Tiberius of the Drake, Caius, Sarathos, Haudegen, Makanyane, Bananabob, Tratorix)

Alive (21)

Tiberius of the Drake
woad&fangs
Omanes
Caius
Gaius Sribonius Curio
pevergreen
Sasaki Kojiro
Husar
TinCow
Elite Ferret
Northnovas
Rythmic
LittleGrizzly
Mithrandir
axel
Haudegen
Makanyane
Bananabob
Tratorix
Privateerkev
Proletariat

Killed (8)
Seamus Fermanagh
GeneralHankerchief
makaikhaan
Glenn
Crazed Rabbit
Ichigo
Kukrikhan
AntiWarmanCake

Lynched (4)
shlin28
00jebus
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Sarathos

WoG'ed (2)
Zorg
TwilightBlade

Suicide (3)

Hiji
Beefy187
Yaropolk

***

It's now Night. PM's please.

OOC: This will be an extended night phase. Soccer game on Saturday + Belgian cup final Sunday afternoon/evening. It'll be a week-end drenched in alcohol for me :grin: I hope to be sober on Sunday evening +/- 22.00 (GMT +2) ~:cheers:

IC: Good night all :evil:

Husar

05-17-2008, 00:02

Please stop making this kinda personal, both of you. Sigurd is a very good and convincing liar in the game and a gentleman outside the game and privateerkev has made a pretty good impression on me so far so please get along and fight about gaming terms, not ignore lists, junior high etc, thanks. :smash:

Seems like the axel thing could've been prevented had someone bothered to look at his profile earlier(I'm including myself, I don't even know who Taketsi is to be honest :sweatdrop: ), too late to change my vote I guess and the tie looks okay to me.

edit: Noted the disclaimer PK and I see Andres also posted meanwhile.

Privateerkev

05-17-2008, 00:07

Please stop making this kinda personal, both of you. Sigurd is a very good and convincing liar and a gentleman outside the game and privateerkev has made a pretty good impression on me so far so please get along and fight about gaming terms, not ignore lists, junior high etc, thanks. :smash:

:bow:

OOC: I would be more than happy to share a beer with Sigurd when this game is over. (I prefer Guinness)

:medievalcheers:

Andres

05-17-2008, 00:14

I don't think Sigurd was serious about that ignore list. It's just how he plays the game: a bit rough sometimes.

If Anderlecht wins the cup on Sunday, make sure to have one on me. I'll have several on you guys ~:cheers:

I'm so not looking forward to Monday morning :sweatdrop:

Sigurd

05-17-2008, 00:19

Oh my god, are we in junior high?

When you lie... people stop believing what you say.

You claim that you can investigate but your not the detective.

You write the claims out instead of copy/pasting.

You hint your yakuza but shout out warnings to the town.

You make up stories about PM's and accomplices.

Your mad that your little bandwagon on Husar did not develop so now your turning your sights on me.

*edit*

OOC: I took out some of the more "heated" comments. I realize those could have been taken OOC and I do not wish for that to happen. Everything said in this thread is IC and I hope no one takes any of this personally. :bow:

OOC:
Hehe...
Those that have played with me before knows any heated discussion or wild accusation and rightout emnity is all IC. When the game ends we slap eachothers shoulders and thanks for a great match.

IC:
Well at least Sasaki acknowledges having pm'ed me. Now it is just for you to do the same. I can't see what you gain from denying this. You were out of bed, but it did not state how long like it did in Husar's case. What are you afraid this knowledge will mean gamewise?

I have never alluded, hinted or mentioned that I have anyting to do with the Yakuza (strawman). Show me the post.
I had a night action, that much Andres confirmed. Yet you volunteer only two choices for me; the detective or Taketsi. Yet you acknowledges the presence of other roles besides those that are known. Why is it so difficult to even imagine a townie role that watched people at night?
I am not mad about not getting Husar lynched... that is another strawman. I got mad because he flippantly voted me like he normally do and that it was such a bad timing. I have done this to him before in other games and we are quite the buddies OOC.
My three results are accurate and both Husar and pevergreen knows this. All though Husar did a feeble attempt at denying it. A bit late... He knows that he should play it cool under such pressure and seem uninterested in his own survival to fend off the rabid townies.

axel

05-17-2008, 00:20

so the shy guy will go to his corner and enjoy his Pizza and beer ~:cheers:
ill try to keep up with voting

Privateerkev

05-17-2008, 00:26

Well at least Sasaki acknowledges having pm'ed me. Now it is just for you to do the same. I can't see what you gain from denying this. You were out of bed, but it did not state how long like it did in Husar's case. What are you afraid this knowledge will mean gamewise?

I refuse to agree to things that aren't true. It doesn't matter how many times you post about it. Your wasting your time.

I have never alluded, hinted or mentioned that I have anyting to do with the Yakuza (strawman). Show me the post.
I had a night action, that much Andres confirmed. Yet you volunteer only two choices for me; the detective or Taketsi. Yet you acknowledges the presence of other roles besides those that are known. Why is it so difficult to even imagine a townie role that watched people at night?
I am not mad about not getting Husar lynched... that is another strawman. I got mad because he flippantly voted me like he normally do and that it was such a bad timing. I have done this to him before in other games and we are quite the buddies OOC.
My three results are accurate and both Husar and pevergreen knows this. All though Husar did a feeble attempt at denying it. A bit late... He knows that he should play it cool under such pressure and seem uninterested in his own survival to fend off the rabid townies.

I doubt your the detective. And I know your not Juliette. So that just leaves Taketsi. It's a hunch. As for suspecting about secret roles, that is another hunch. I read Netherworld and it was in there. I just have a hard time believing that Andres would put up all the roles in the 1st post. He is a crafty guy. Now if you and others wish to look farther into this, your more than welcome to.

If your Taketsi, that then means you are not pro-town. And everything you say must be taken with 35 tons of salt.

Does that explain it or do you want to ask the exact same questions again?

*edit*

Had to fix the quotes. :D

Sigurd

05-17-2008, 00:47

I just have a hard time believing that Andres would put up all the roles in the 1st post.
Well then, at least you admit this much.

Does that explain it or do you want to ask the exact same questions again?
Whatever it takes to get the ears of the townies my friend. Memory works best when things are repeated.

OOC: Hus.. why are you not in the chat?

Privateerkev

05-17-2008, 00:51

Whatever it takes to get the ears of the townies my friend.

And I am sure the town will sleep soundly knowing that Sigurd the yakuza ghost is watching out for them. :clown:

Northnovas

05-17-2008, 00:57

If Anderlecht wins the cup on Sunday, make sure to have one on me. I'll have several on you guys ~:cheers:

I'm so not looking forward to Monday morning :sweatdrop:

If it's okay I started a couple hours ago it is the Friday of a long weekend here. I am not sure about the wekend weather but the suds are definitely flowing.

So if it is soccer and Anderlecht or hockey and the Red Wings I will have a few for you and everyone else Taormina all weekend. ~:cheers:

Alcohol the solution.... and cause to all our problems. Homer Simpson.

Husar

05-17-2008, 09:26

OOC: Hus.. why are you not in the chat?
I was running out of reasons to go there and took the logical consequence, or in other words: just because. :shrug:

I still have no idea how you got an out of bed result on me because I cannot perform any night actions, and just because you're not yakuza doesn't mean you're pro-town either, you could be the crazy detective whose goal is to get wrong results on people and lynch them based on that, while we're at the topic of thinking up roles. :dizzy2:
I actually think you found a convenient way to get me lynched, if you wanted to hear more from me in round 1 already, why was all you did vote for me? Despite what you said earlier one vote will hardly make me talk more.

Besides, using WLAN as an excuse for not posting your PM sounds pretty fishy to me, if your WLAN really slows down your internet that it takes two minutes to load a page I wonder how you can chat in the chat. :inquisitive:

Concerning my reactions because you all talk about them, some people here know I will always have strong reactions opposing Sigurd in a mafia game because he is a very good player and superb bender of truth(liar) and it never seems hard for him to get people on his side which is why I'm never satisfied shooting blanks at him and get out the big guns right away. :sweatdrop:

pevergreen

05-17-2008, 11:24

Husar

05-17-2008, 11:49

Chat doesnt take time to load posts.
Just because you never had lag in the chat doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Im on Wireless as well (most of the time)

It will take 4-5 minutes to load a full page of normal posts, 1-2 minutes to open pm box, 2 minutes to have the pm load.

(takes 4-5 minutes as im 80 posts per page)
I also use WLAN to browse sometimes and it isn't slow, not if you get more than one or two of those bars in Windows anyway in which case you're either too far away from the router or have a bad WLAN adapter. I know there was a lso the game etc but he didn't even attempt to post a PM before Andres(could've made a second post) and now he wonders why noone believes him. It's not unlikely that he was just lacking time to forge a believable role PM.

pevergreen

05-17-2008, 12:05

He gambled by making up results for people he didnt know anything about then.

He got it right.

Explain that?

Husar

05-17-2008, 14:12

He got it right.
Who said he got anything right apart from you and him? :inquisitive:

Northnovas

05-17-2008, 16:20

Chat doesnt take time to load posts.

Im on Wireless as well (most of the time)

It will take 4-5 minutes to load a full page of normal posts, 1-2 minutes to open pm box, 2 minutes to have the pm load.

(takes 4-5 minutes as im 80 posts per page)

Are you serious on the load speeds!? Dial up on a phone modem here would be faster then your wireless; in fact a handheld can load the forum pages under 20 seconds.
In most cases depending on provider high speed LAN or wireless in North America are the same and the download is in seconds. I thought the wireless, WIFI were the same globally for speed.

Anyone surfing on the above speeds truly have the patience of Job and dedication to the game. :bow:

Sigurd

05-17-2008, 20:32

Alright... let’s put this point of the discussion behind us once and for all.

I was watching a game on the telly. It was the quarterfinal in the world championship of ice hockey between Norway and Canada.
While watching, I pulled up my laptop and connected to my wireless. Husar you of all should remember that when I am on a wireless, I always drop out several times when I am in the chat. My internet connection is fairly fast, but once I am connected wireless it is not stable as I can get disconnected several times during a few minutes. Sometimes it will be as fast as when using a cable, but often it will halt to a crawl and refreshing a page can take minutes. It could be that these problems stems from the fact that I have frozen a single IP as the connection for the D-Link router. The D-Link router is connected to my DMZ from the time I used to download huge files. I should change it back to DHCP, but I don't use it that often anymore.

I know this is hard for you computer nerds to understand (OOC: :beam: ), but when your mind is in a hockey game, emotion seethes.
You remember something about a mafia game and a magic time at around 22:00 hours. Damn, the game is not finished yet. Ah well, I 'll just flip open the laptop to place a vote. But lo and behold, you are just about getting lynched and you have not a clue why. You back trail some post to see what is up. The damn page wont load the page and you get the message of broken connection.
Oh wait the game … Damn Canadians just put our forward through their goal, what is going on? Yeah get in there and bash some heads, stupid!! Hahaha the Canucks get three on the penalty bench. Come on guys!!! ... What? Husar seems to have started this bandwagon. Oh, the nerve of that guy ... Come on Norway, you are in power play; put that puck behind that fat goalie.
Ah, yes Husar… I’ll just put my first investigation in there with my post. Hehe ...
How stupid can one be; getting a penalty when in power-play? Take it easy guys. The Canucks are not unbeatable. Damn one fast goal against us. The spirit is breaking up. What time is it? Damn it is past ten ... Hmm, Sasaki mentions something about the investigation thing. Ah well, I guess I am dead, why not? Crap, the page is not loading. Come on, get going!! There, finally an edit box. Now, what to write? I’ll just ... What?!! Another goal against us? What is happening to the Norwegians? Damn guys, pull yourself together, you got more stamina than this ... Ah yes, the investigations. I’ll just paraphrase.
There that’ll do. Back to the hockey game … Hmm a pm. Sasaki is asking me to remove my last investigation? Alright, maybe my result is revealing a pro-town role. Ah damn, come on you stupid page; load, load. There, changed. All is happy ... Oh no, the team is breaking apart *jumps out of couch* COME ON!!!! WORK!!, WORK!! Damn, to many goals for the Canucks, the game is lost and Andres just put a bullet through the head of my character. Oh, another pm.. hmm, Privateerkev thank me for removing his name. A pm with a subject of IC and signed Kevin. I guess I stumbled into something there.

This is a true story and should explain in detail why it went down the way it went down.
No need to discuss the finer details, when in an emotional uproar, common sense is not working properly.

axel

05-17-2008, 22:38

Hi all

the discussion is that a part of the game or when do you vote? when do you suspect sommeone?
wots the CHAT ?
please help a bit:dizzy2:

Northnovas

05-17-2008, 22:57

Alright... let’s put this point of the discussion behind us once and for all.

I was watching a game on the telly. It was the quarterfinal in the world championship of ice hockey between Norway and Canada.

Okay I can see where this going. :holmes:

I know this is hard for you computer nerds to understand (OOC: :beam: ), but when your mind is in a hockey game, emotion seethes.

Testify brother! I am listening! I will be in the same state Sunday afternoon.

How stupid can one be; getting a penalty when in power-play? Take it easy guys. The Canucks are not unbeatable.

Well this could be construed as a false statement. :laugh4:

This is a true story and should explain in detail why it went down the way it went down.

It's the World Hockey Championship I can see this happening to any hockey fan. :laugh4:

Axel there is a chat room in the Org it is up on top of the threads beside the USER CP and Favorites. members will sometimes go in there and converse.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-18-2008, 06:17

Before I go, Vote:Abstain

Events are moving too quickly currently for me, in good conscience, to vote for someone, who knowing my luck will then get lynched because of me.

However, FOS: Husar, Little Grizzly, and Haudegan

Tally:

sarathos: 4 :skull: (Mithrandir, Sasaki Kojiro, pevergreen, Elite Ferret)

Haudegen: 4 (TinCow, Proletariat, Northnovas, Privateerkev)

:laugh4: Looks like I was right...

Privateerkev

05-18-2008, 16:34

Oh, another pm.. hmm, Privateerkev thank me for removing his name. A pm with a subject of IC and signed Kevin. I guess I stumbled into something there.

At least one lie buried in a very good story.

My PM to Ichigo is on the thread around here. Everyone knows I sign my PM's as "Kevin".

I am quite convinced Sigurd is mafia. But I am puzzled as to how there could be more yakuza kills out there. I have two guesses.

a.) There were 2 yakuza at the beginning of the game. or,

b.) Sigurd was able to recruit a yakuza before he got lynched.

I know people are skeptical of the whole recruiting thing but it was done in Capo 2, and done in a slightly different way in Netherworld. I do not believe it is beyond the realm of possibility. But like many of my ideas, I am pulling this one out of a particular orifice of mine. It's just a guess. :shrug:

I've said this before but it bares repeating. If Sigurd's post about me and Husar was false, perhaps his post about Pevergreen was false as well. I suggest giving Pevergreen more scrutiny. He should not get a pass all because Sigurd says he is innocent.

I also find it curious that Sigurd is posting far more now that he is dead, than when he was alive. I guess he was laying low as yakuza but now is trying to cover for his buddy. (pevergreen perhaps?)

TinCow

05-18-2008, 17:39

I know people are skeptical of the whole recruiting thing but it was done in Capo 2, and done in a slightly different way in Netherworld. I do not believe it is beyond the realm of possibility. But like many of my ideas, I am pulling this one out of a particular orifice of mine. It's just a guess. :shrug:

It bears mentioning that the description given for Manfredo implies that he can join the town or the mafia. Anyone with access to this role PM would probably have information on "recruiting." He also did not kill on night 3 and thus would have been found innocent, and was probably out of his room investigating on Night 3 to make sure that Ichigo was Juliette. Would the great similarities between this role and the allegations made against you be entirely coincidental?

Privateerkev

05-18-2008, 21:36

It bears mentioning that the description given for Manfredo implies that he can join the town or the mafia. Anyone with access to this role PM would probably have information on "recruiting." He also did not kill on night 3 and thus would have been found innocent, and was probably out of his room investigating on Night 3 to make sure that Ichigo was Juliette. Would the great similarities between this role and the allegations made against you be entirely coincidental?

Reading up on prior mafia games have given me ideas. Some things have puzzled me about this game so I've wondered if my ideas have merit. I share my ideas with the thread so others can benefit from my analysis and give their ideas. So, therefore, yes it is merely a coincidence. I would dare say it is an "entire coincidence."

I understand that your "deep reading" of my posts is to help the town and I don't blame you. But you are simply barking up the wrong tree on this one. I don't expect you to believe that but I'll say it anyways so you can't say I didn't warn you. :D

Andres

05-18-2008, 21:38

Night 5 - Conclusion

OOC: Anderlecht won the cup, so please, if soemthing isn't clear from the write-upe, I'll correct it when I'm sober.

Here weg oo...

~:cheers:

Woohooe!!

Husar left his room.

While he walked through the corridor, he was hit by a hard kick on his knees.

Husar fell down. Another kick hit him on the head.

Almost unconscious, he tried to look up.

A well placed kick chopped of Husar's right arm. Before Husar could scream, another kick chopped of his left arm.

"Guess you're defeated," his attacker said.

"No! I'm not," Husar screamed. Somehow, he got up to his feet and he started to yell at his attacker.

"Come over here, you coward! Are you afraid of an armless man! Gah! Attack me! Come on!"

Two well placed kicks chopped of Husar's legs. Husar kept taunting his attacker until he bleeded to dead.

***

Rythmic didn't go to his room that night. Instead he went to the local church, to pray.

While he was saying his prayers, a man entered the church.

"Are you also here to pray, Mister?", Rythmic politely said to the man.

The answer of the man consisted of three bullets in Rythmic's stomach.

Rythmic bleeded to dead, his attacker slowly left the scene.

***

pevergreen was walking down one the many narrow streets of Taormina.

"Wait!", a man said.

"Huh? Who are you?", pevergreen asked.

"Just wait! Don't move! I'm an evil mafioso!" the man said, looking a bit nervous.

pevergreen looked at the pale looking man's face. "You, a mafioso? You can barely stop trembling! HAHAHAHAHA!"

"Don't you mock me! I'm a mafioso! I'm professional! I have a gun."

"Sure you have", pevergreen said. He turned his back, shaking his head and laughing. What a silly guy that was.

However, the man indeed had a gun. His hands were trembling while he fired three shots. One shot accidentally hit pevergreen in the leg.

"Hurray!" the man yelled. He moved closer to pever, pointed the gun at his head an fired a few more bullets.

pevergreen died instantly.

***

Haudegen was drunk that night. Because of the killings he was the only one left in his hotel. While he was having his 10th amaretto, a man entered the bar.

The cat 'o nine talis hit him very hard. He dropped his glass and fell on his knees. The man grabbed Haudegen and tied him up. He stripped off Haudegen's shirt.

The cat 'o nine tails hit Haudegen over and over again. After an hour, Haudegen body consisted of some bloody pulp. Allthough he was already dead, the man kept whipping him over and over again.

Finally satisfied, he took the latest Beirut&Decker chainsaw. The man grinned.

Later that day, people found Haudegen's head on a spear, near Ichigo's fresh grave...

***
Day 5.

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Taormina-PortaMessina.jpg

Porta Messina - Taormina - 7.30 a.m.

The people of Taormina gathered near the Porta Messina. They saw Pino's body in a pool of blood.

Without a real leader, they didn't know what to do. They figured they should continue to do what they always did so far.

And so they started to vote. Again...

****

Alive (17)

Tiberius of the Drake
woad&fangs
Omanes
Caius
Gaius Sribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
TinCow
Elite Ferret
Northnovas
LittleGrizzly
Mithrandir
axel
Makanyane
Bananabob
Tratorix
Privateerkev
Proletariat

Killed (12)
Seamus Fermanagh
GeneralHankerchief
makaikhaan
Glenn
Crazed Rabbit
Ichigo
Kukrikhan
AntiWarmanCake
pevergreen
Rythmic
Husar
Haudegen

Lynched (4)
shlin28
00jebus
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Sarathos

WoG'ed (2)
Zorg
TwilightBlade

Suicide (3)

Hiji
Beefy187
Yaropolk

***

It's day. Start voting.

Privateerkev

05-18-2008, 21:53

Well crap...

Seems that the detective is dead, there was no mention of the prostitute, and pever is now dead.

Ok, I am well and truly clueless as to what is going on and I need to be AFK for the rest of the evening.

TinCow

05-18-2008, 22:28

Seems that the detective is dead

Since you apparently knew the identity of the detective, mind telling the rest of us who it was?

Husar

05-18-2008, 23:03

I find my writeup a bit weird, Andres. :inquisitive:

Also I would like to note that I am actually a bit suspicious of Privateerkev, let's just say I only tried to discredit Sigurd to save my life which obviously(and expectedly) didn't really work for long now that I got so much attention. :shrug:

Ah well, like I said, the town is in pretty bad shape, looks like we have 13 townies and at least 4 killers.

It also seems obvious that the mafia, at least one group of them(if they're not working together already...) is killing all our suspects trying to leave us clueless.
And that lads, is why we have to looks at the innocent guys, those who are most "helpful" to the town and lynch them. Since I'm dead I guess I should not include myself in that list. :sweatdrop:

Well, I already mentioned Privateerkev, then there is TinCow and Sasaki, Northnovas is highly suspect as well IMO, very much under the radar this game and also helped me discredit Sigurd which is very scummy in 2 ways (1. people who side with me are often scum says my experience; 2. like I already said I tried to discredit Sigurd not because I believed he was necessarily wrong but to avoid the consequences of going into the opposite direction).

I'm now starting to have doubts about Proletariat again because what I previously saw as a reason to think of her as innocent is not necessarily valid anymore and she also sided with me against Sigurd.

My thoughts about Makanyane equal a void, maybe more analysis is required here.

Concerning the identity of the detective, wasn't Pino the detective? The writeup says he lay in his own blood so that would mean he is dead, wouldn't it?

Ah yes, there is also Gaius Scribonius Curio who from what I heard and feel should be a prime candidate for the gallows as well, I could envision him as a team with Northnovas but it could also be my fantasy going wild. ~D

Well, these are my thoughts, mainly based on intuition etc. because in previous games my intuition was usually way better than my "evidence"...

woad&fangs

05-18-2008, 23:05

Vote: Sasaki

Ugh, I am completely confused.:dizzy2:

edit: I'm in agreement with Husar. I could easily see Sasaki and PK leading the town around by the butthairs. I was also suspicious of Curio at one point. I'll have to recheck why and see if that reasoning still stands.

KukriKhan

05-18-2008, 23:32

I find my writeup a bit weird, Andres.

Hee-hee. He made you The Black Knight. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno&feature=related).

I've kept up with the thread, even though I'm dead, just to see what happens. Total observation: no clue. Victims seem picked at random. At this rate of killing and lynching, game should be over in 3 days.

Then we get the summary, and find out what was what (and who was whom).

-edit-
pever's killer sounds like a "new" hitman, a Nervous Nelly, a murderer who has hidden in the background until now. Maybe axel, whose behavior in-thread mirrors that of the inexperienced killer?

pevergreen

05-19-2008, 00:27

Whoever he is...he better watch out.

I've been reborn. pevergreen is dead, peverpink rises from the ashes.

Northnovas

05-19-2008, 01:17

How stupid can one be; getting a penalty when in power-play? Take it easy guys. The Canucks are not unbeatable.

Okay this statement is now true and it was a damn penalty that lost the game.

As for Husar post I am innocent just a townie with no role and I would also like to add what does PK know about the detective role. I have PK a townie like me am I wrong!?

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-19-2008, 01:45

Things to be drawn from the write-up.

It seems that Haudegan was killed by the brother. It may be a leap of faith, but the fact that the head was stuck on a spear, may mean that he found Manfredo? If so that means that there is no possibility of a pro-town vigilante.

Husar seems to have been killed by the Yakusa (Martial Arts) so we know Taketski is still around. We also know that he has to kill everyone, so there may not be an ulterior motive for having Husar as a target.

I'd suggest that Rythmic was the detective. I'd imagine the detective as a religious and polite guy. I'd guess a Carelli killing, a professional job, but if my first theory above is wrong then it could also have been Manfredo.

Finally, the nervous guy and Pevergreen. I need to check this against what happened in thread. If Pever insulted someone, they'd definitely be on the list of suspects, the theory about it being Axel would seem to be the best atm.

TinCow

05-19-2008, 01:52

As for Husar post I am innocent just a townie with no role and I would also like to add what does PK know about the detective role. I have PK a townie like me am I wrong!?

Nice of you to mention that you're just a plan old townie twice in two sentences. You seem to be reacting overly defensive for a paper-thin accusation by a dead person whose own reputation wasn't exactly sterling.

Vote: Northnovas

It seems that Haudegan was killed by the brother. It may be a leap of faith, but the fact that the head was stuck on a spear, may mean that he found Manfredo? If so that means that there is no possibility of a pro-town vigilante.

This is a gem of an analysis and one that I totally missed when reading the write-up. Re-reading it, I completely agree with your interpretation of the events. It's very possible that the MiB has just killed Manfredo. I haven't checked, but I think Sasaki, PK, and I are the only people left who voted for Ichigo. If the grinning man kills none of us tonight, I think we can assume he got Manfredo.

Northnovas

05-19-2008, 02:58

Nice of you to mention that you're just a plan old townie twice in two sentences. You seem to be reacting overly defensive for a paper-thin accusation by a dead person whose own reputation wasn't exactly sterling.

Vote: Northnovas

I didn't realize he was dead so I was just defending myself but like any mafia game when one defends their name they become suspicious. A vote for me is only pro mafia because it will be a wasted lynch.

I am just trying to figure what role you since N1. I can't imagine you not being in the thick of things. Possible the MiB and now you have aquired your target there won't be anymore kills??

Csargo

05-19-2008, 04:06

The first and third kills were interesting...

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-19-2008, 04:09

The first and third kills were interesting...

You mean with the victims bleeding slowly to death? Do you think there is a connection?

I think that would be unlikely, but possible.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-19-2008, 04:57

Ok, seen as I've done my knee playing football against a bunch of obnoxious scallys (or chavs, depending on your preference), and I can't be bothered walking to the library from the cafe, its time for a little in-depth analysis...

Alive (17)

Tiberius of the Drake
woad&fangs
Omanes
Caius
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
TinCow
Elite Ferret
Northnovas
LittleGrizzly
Mithrandir
axel
Makanyane
Bananabob
Tratorix
Privateerkev
Proletariat

We know from the write-up that there are at least four killers. Unfortunately, due to the verbose nature of some of the remaining people, there is a chance for others to lurk and remain undetected. There are three groups of people on this list. Those who have been relatively talkative in game, those who have been helpful or analytical, but not overly loud, and the lurkers. Not one group is above suspicion!!!

The first group would consist of: PrivateerKev, myself (Curio), and possibly Tincow and Makanyane, of those who are left. Posting styles and plans and ideas etc. should be relatively plain to see. Guilty or innocent? Thats your call.

The second group would containWoad&Fangs, Sasaki,
Northnovas, Omanes, Little Grizzly and Proletariat. Their motives and patterns are not so easy to see. However, they have been posting and trying to help (or mislead) the town. Most of these participants have come under suspicion at one point or another, and managed to produce a satisfactory answer for their actions, or in Omanes case, lack of them. Northnovas and Little Grizzly, haven't as yet, but a guilty til proven innocent attitude with such a high ratio of mafia to town left, is verging on ridiculous. If there is evidence, by all means produce it, but wanton accusations prove nothing.

Finally the lurkers! Tiberius of the Drake, Caius, Elite Ferret, Mithrandir, Axel, Bananabob and Tratorix have all had relatively little to say, and extremely little that has been of use. Axel and any other relatively new player (Mithrandir? I haven't been around long enough to know who is new), perhaps have an excuse. Also EF, has come in half-way through and could be yet to form a complete and informed opinion. However Caius, Tiberius of the Drake and Tratorix, I know have experiance, yet have been unhelpful and no-one has brought them to bear over this.

FOS: Little Grizzly, Caius, Tiberius of the Drake and Tratorix.

Little Grizzly has given no satisfactory defense of himself (afaik, please point this out if he has and I will retract this), and yet is suddenly guilt-free. Why? Caius, Tratorix and Tiberius of the Drake, as I've said I have nothing to go off other than their post-histories, which I am reviewing, and would like to hear a defence for their lack of activity.

This has taken me a while so I may be a bit off the pace, and my apologies if any information recorded above is wrong, I am human, I make mistakes, correct me.

Edit: apparently not... lol

Makanyane

05-19-2008, 06:22

Have no idea left - except mafia is obviously being cleverer than the rest of us
Vote: Sasaki

Curio, analysis of other people is one thing but you seem to be trying to tell everyone else what they should think of you too - I'm not sure I liked way you grouped yourself with me, TC and PK as 'our'

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-19-2008, 06:30

Gah! I'm not trying to tell people what they should think of me, and I'm definitely not trying to link anyone together, although upon rereading it does look like that.

I was trying to draw attention to the fact that:

1: No-one, (including me), should be above suspicion.

2: Most people seem to have forgotten about some of our resident lurkers.

and 3: There are people that appear to be putting in time and effort to save the town.

Also my super long-winded post was another (perhaps ill-advised) way of trying to provoke discussion and draw people out over certain issues. Instead it seems to have had the opposite effect (or maybe there is no-one left alive in my time-zone).

If you take exception to the wording however it shall be changed. I tend to type conversationally and therefore don't read what I have already written.

Oh and btw, Vote:Little Grizzly

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 07:57

Sasaki Kojiro, TinCow,PrivateerKev--the three of us are the only ones left living who have voted for Ichigo. Unless we lynch the SK today one of us will die tonight. None of us should be lynch targets for that reason, we don't have lynches to waste. Additionally, I'm innocent. Also, TinCow was blocked on a night when all kills were accounted for (he could be the new killer but it would be foolish to kill pevergreen, one of the other ichigo-voters). Privateer kev would be the least cautious newbie-mafioso ever.

The Stranger/EliteFerret-Next person I looked into. TS requested replacement part way through the night, so he could still have sent the kills. However Elite doesn't have any bad marks. When mak asked to see his pm she reported that he went to private messaging.

axel--innocent in my book due to missing whole night period

The lurkers:

Tiberius-3 posts--WoG bait
BananaBob-4 posts--WoG bait
Tratorix-7 posts--No posts since day 2. Possible WoG bait.
LittleGriz-11--not really a lurker anymore after a lurking start. Has been getting accused all over the place with out a lick of decent evidence. The only evidence brought that I can see is that Ichigo was going to investigate him next and it was claimed that ichigo had randomly hit the same number generator that Andres did--which is silly, since it's random.
Omanes-11--Possible scum. Lurking, laying low, avoiding popular lynch candidates.
Caius-12--I'm fairly suspicious of him since he usually posts more.
Proletariat-13-Blocked by prostitute on night with kills. Odds are low she's mafia.

Makanye-

Mithrandir-

Northnovas-

Curio-I think Curio is innocent. Gut feeling, but he has enough posts to judge.

Woad&Fangs-

I've been doing this piece by piece, but I'm going to take a break and leave some entries unfilled while I go look at something. The write up says that pino was found in a pool of blood. Husar and Rhythmic both bled to death. I recall Rhythmics vote for LittleGrizz which I found very bizarre and want to check up on it and see if it was a cop clue. On the other hand there was that business with Husar being out of bed. This should be looked into.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 07:59

Have no idea left - except mafia is obviously being cleverer than the rest of us
Vote: Sasaki

Vote: Sasaki

Ugh, I am completely confused.:dizzy2:

In the meantime, don't do the Serial Killer's work for them and take the time to reread the thread and come up with a real suspect.

seireikhaan

05-19-2008, 08:13

Hmm....

My suspects-

1) Sasaki- He's just about cleverer than everyone else alive at this point, with the possible exception of TinCow, whom I'm pretty sure is innocent at this point. Sasaki's been keeping at just the surface point of discussion for most of the game, which is pretty much to be expected. What still sets me off a bit, in retrospect, is the fact that he was blocked on a night when there was one kill. I certainly wouldn't put it beyond Sasaki to come right out and admit he was blocked.

2) Makanyane- Her behavior is striking me to be rather similar to her behavior in Netherworld mafia- playing the part of 'dumb blonde' so to speak, a bit too much, given that she's hardly anything but.

3) Omanes- lurking heavily, but no so much that he's WoG bait. Omanes is smart enough to make some decent analysis of the game, and the fact that he's not really doing anything of the sort is rather troubling.

4) Curio- I've got a bad feeling here. He's taken the lead on the town's efforts, and yet he's got almost no experience at .org mafia. Somehow, this doesn't settle right with me, and I'm got a feeling that Sasaki's feeding him info to 'analyze' from the kills, which does two things: First, it prevents the image of Sasaki from appearing as trying to lead the town around by its nose, and it establishes Curio as a pro-town force. Frankly, I've just got a very bad feeling about this.

Makanyane

05-19-2008, 08:17

In the meantime, don't do the Serial Killer's work for them and take the time to reread the thread and come up with a real suspect.
I see a couple of votes on you brought out a sudden surge in helpfulness...

The posting analysis and suspicions on lurkers haven't got us anywhere so far, and I don't hold out a lot of hope that they will today. I have feeling we're missing seeing the elephant in the room, and am quite serious that you're a credible suspect for that role.

I agree that TC is likely 'proved' innocent, but I'm not that convinced about PK - him not having had time to absorb lore about how mafia normally stay out of trouble might be helping him do a convincing talkative hence innocent persona.
If the prostitute could be persuaded to keep protection on TC then lynching you and having PK as last possible serial killer victim doesn't actually seem like such a bad idea.

EDIT: grrr, khaan, I've been trying to sound intelligent so people listen to me for a change..... and you still think I'm coming out as 'dumb blonde' - that's a bit depressing for the self image!

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-19-2008, 08:26

In the meantime, don't do the Serial Killer's work for them and take the time to reread the thread and come up with a real suspect.

Sasaki actually makes a good point here.

Unvote: Little Grizzly

Upon rereading Sasaki appears to be right, theres no real evidence for or against.

Ok, in light of the complete confusion that appears to be reigning supreme atm, I'm going to reveal this little bombshell...

I don't know what today's date is but on the 14th, after a conversation with Rythmic, he said this:

Alright, seems you're is highly perceptive, my source says your innocent (or at least weren't active last night).

At the time I thought nothing of it. Then I realised that the only 'source' that he could legitimately have was either himself or Ichigo. Since Ichigo is now dead, I can reveal that I was in contact with him, and I know that I wasn't worthy of investigation by him (matter of public record, he had a list of those he was investigating, I wasn't on it). Hence Rythmic has, or rather had the ability to investigate.

Of the characters, Manfredo can investigate, but only to find Juliette.
Juliette can investigate, but She was Ichigo.
The Carabineri can investigate, he was unknown.

By process of elimination, if Rythmic was telling the truth, and he had no reason to lie, then he was the detective. The write-up of his demise, would also seem to confirm this (see above).

Bearing this in mind, everything he said to me now bears more weight.

I'm told Husar is innocent.

TinCow is crafty. I never, ever trust him after Netherworld. But, since all anti-town roles were active last night that pretty much clears his name.

My source says Prole is innocent, but not all roles were active that night.

Voting Axel is useless.

This was the only PM, where he actually confirmed that he had a source, and that he seemed confident.

There was only one other where he mentioned anything about his 'opinion' about other players, and it was early in the game and he seemed to be speculating, I can post it if you want me to.

Unfortunately, there were no guilty results, and as such this information is almost useless. Completely useless if he lied.

I'm sorry if this shouldn't have been revealed btw.

Curio

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 08:27

Looking back and husar and rhythmic's post history:

Husar's first post after night one:

Vote: Proletariat

Well, call it a feeling, or don't, or maybe do, but perhaps it's better not to, then again maybe you should...

Rhythmics:

Vote: Tratorix

My vote chosen using random.org. :laugh4:

Based on Husar's post this thread, he didn't have a result on prole despite the weird wording, and anyway she was blocked by prostitute. I don't think the "first posts of day" are going to be useful this time although the detectives sometimes leave clues.

This post by rhythmic:

I'm undecided about Husar, further evidence or info really would swing my opinion.
...
maybe an investigative report by the detective sometime

interests me, "investigative report" is strange wording, perhaps used by andres in a role pm. From same post:

Edit: I'll wait to see how the night plays out before pressing further judgement.

Then the next day:

Husar is a bad vote, more thoughts to come in a second. (Need to charge my laptop).

In my estimation Rhythmic was the detective. Looks like a result on Husar for that they though, so he couldn't have had a result on LittleGrizzly that day, and was instead just trying to stop the Husar wagon. Well that was a lengthy derail, but I did notice two things. First, I'm suspicious of those jumping all over LittleGrizzly. I can't see any evidence against him. This includes curio who I'm going to have to take a close look at despite my gut feeling. Second is this quote from NorthNovas:

unvote:Husar

A little of both but I still have time to put it back on I want to see what else develops. LittleGrizzly is looking like a possibility too.

Which is a classic mafia type post. He'll be the subject of my next post.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-19-2008, 08:29

Vote: Omanes btw.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 08:30

I see a couple of votes on you brought out a sudden surge in helpfulness...

Sasaki Kojiro 71
Makanyane 37

:bow:

The posting analysis and suspicions on lurkers haven't got us anywhere so far, and I don't hold out a lot of hope that they will today. I have feeling we're missing seeing the elephant in the room, and am quite serious that you're a credible suspect for that role.

They're the only way to get anywhere. Mafia instinct is to cast careless votes.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-19-2008, 08:35

4) Curio- I've got a bad feeling here. He's taken the lead on the town's efforts, and yet he's got almost no experience at .org mafia. Somehow, this doesn't settle right with me, and I'm got a feeling that Sasaki's feeding him info to 'analyze' from the kills, which does two things: First, it prevents the image of Sasaki from appearing as trying to lead the town around by its nose, and it establishes Curio as a pro-town force. Frankly, I've just got a very bad feeling about this.

:laugh4: So the ability to analyse (badly as it turns out), makes me suspicious? Ok I can see that it probably does.

But I'd like to point out that I am my own man, and I don't need to be 'fed information' on how to perform an analysis of someone.

Makanyane

05-19-2008, 08:44

If the prostitute could be persuaded to keep protection on TC then lynching you and having PK as last possible serial killer victim doesn't actually seem like such a bad idea.

actually I am a dumb blonde.... :embarassed: just realised there was no mention of prostitute last night, erm do we think she's dead?

need to re-read the rest of stuff above later, must work now.

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 08:48

Vote: gaius Scribino Curio

reason: I really don't have a clue. I had a gut feeling about kukri and sarathos which both turned out to be wrong, since the numer of kills did not decline after they were dead. So for now I'll rather trust complete randomness (http://www.dsrw.org/~dlg/web/straws.php?action=static&static=974ef7580f934850472a603d413240f0&date=20080519) than my gut feelings.

edit: I filled in numbers instead of names because I'm too lazy. #5 on the random list is gaius (from andres' tally)

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 08:50

Wow, that was a lot of pages to read for being 1 day offline! I will make my first round contribution:

Vote: Abstain

Possible his not being online meant he didn't send a kill? Not evidence of it. A nothing vote.

I would have to agree at least one veteran player. GH is always a target in the early round and a threat to any mafia. A definite town loss.
No vote yet.

Still no vote. He does vote for 00Jebus.

Next few posts aren't interesting, just apologies for missing votes and lurking.

This is the interesting set:

PK has made a good observation with Axel's activity but there have been several request made to Husar to explain himself and he has made no attempt but in his post.

Vote: Husar

unvote: Husar

A little of both but I still have time to put it back on I want to see what else develops. LittleGrizzly is looking like a possibility too.

Taking PK's observation.

Vote: Axel

Just cathcing up on the current post.

unvote:axel
vote:Haudegen

Going on a hunch!

He appears to be voting for popular candidates indiscriminately with fake reasons at times. Good lynch choice.

Mithrandir--Lurks a lot. Could go either way on this one.

Mak, Curio, and W&F will take a bit more time.

seireikhaan

05-19-2008, 08:51

Mak- No offense intended, honestly. However, you seem to be either going along with other people's votes, or else simply stating that you're not sure what to do. It was simply a term of phrase, I meant nothing by it.

Gaius- Once again, no offense intended. However, you can't deny that you're still very new to mafia, so either you're getting help from someone who IS very experienced, or you're going to be one heck of a mafia player once you get to know the usual field of players. However, I tend to reserve such a judgement until many games, and as such, I'll allow my pessimistic side to assume that you've been getting some hints from Sasaki.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 08:53

Alright, seems you're is highly perceptive, my source says your innocent (or at least weren't active last night).

At the time I thought nothing of it. Then I realised that the only 'source' that he could legitimately have was either himself or Ichigo. Since Ichigo is now dead, I can reveal that I was in contact with him, and I know that I wasn't worthy of investigation by him (matter of public record, he had a list of those he was investigating, I wasn't on it). Hence Rythmic has, or rather had the ability to investigate.

Of the characters, Manfredo can investigate, but only to find Juliette.
Juliette can investigate, but She was Ichigo.
The Carabineri can investigate, he was unknown.

By process of elimination, if Rythmic was telling the truth, and he had no reason to lie, then he was the detective. The write-up of his demise, would also seem to confirm this (see above).

Bearing this in mind, everything he said to me now bears more weight.

Makes sense to me. On the basis of the first quote I think we can put Curio in as innocent.

^^^or maybe this is just a clever plot we cooked up together :laugh4:

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 08:55

Mithrandir--Lurks a lot. Could go either way on this one.

ooc :Actually my activity has increased with about 1000% since joining these maffia games :laugh4:

ic: I lurk a lot? I think I've posted quite a lot...

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-19-2008, 09:02

Gaius- Once again, no offense intended. However, you can't deny that you're still very new to mafia, so either you're getting help from someone who IS very experienced, or you're going to be one heck of a mafia player once you get to know the usual field of players. However, I tend to reserve such a judgement until many games, and as such, I'll allow my pessimistic side to assume that you've been getting some hints from Sasaki.

Makaikhaan, note the laugh smiley at the beginning of my post! I just had to at least make an attempt to defend myself against your slander. :laugh4: . I take it as a compliment that you think the only way I can acheive as much I have (Have I acheived anything?), is with the help of someone of Sasaki's calibre! I did follow Capo II, even though I wasn't involved, so I had a fair idea of what to do.

Sigurd

05-19-2008, 09:18

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 09:24

W&F's makes me suspicious. Not much concrete. His M.O. seems to be to make a couple posts each day with reasonably logic based well established rules. It's a very effective way to play as mafia--not lurking, not bandwagoning, using logic but not exposing yourself to a slip up or inconsistency. The only thing inconsistent is his claim on day one that pk is definitely innocent and him saying today that he thinks pk is mafia.

I don't have time for a full reread on Makanye. Too many posts and it's very late, sorry. She was very good mafia in netherworld and capo as I recall. Not much attempt at case building this game that I can remember. Suspicious level of carelessness regarding voting this round i.e. "I have no idea so here's a vote".

Vote count:

Sasaki 2 (W&F, Makanye)
NorthNovas 1 (TinCow)
Omanes 1 (Curio)
Curio 1 (Mithrandir)

Very few amounts of votes, considering how many killers we have.

In my opinion:

Innocent:
Proletariat
Curio
axel
Elite Ferret
LittleGrizzly
Tincow
Sasaki

Serial killer bait:
Sasaki
Tincow
PK

WoG bait:
tiberius
bananaBob
tratorix

possible mafia:
Northnovas
W&F
Makanye
Omanes
Mithrandir
Caius

Vote:Northnovas

Seems the clear best candidate.

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 10:28

Look over Husar's death again. He seemed very hard to kill.

Husar left his room.

While he walked through the corridor, he was hit by a hard kick on his knees.

Husar fell down. Another kick hit him on the head.

Almost unconscious, he tried to look up.

A well placed kick chopped of Husar's right arm. Before Husar could scream, another kick chopped of his left arm.

"Guess you're defeated," his attacker said.

"No! I'm not," Husar screamed. Somehow, he got up to his feet and he started to yell at his attacker.

"Come over here, you coward! Are you afraid of an armless man! Gah! Attack me! Come on!"

Two well placed kicks chopped of Husar's legs. Husar kept taunting his attacker until he bleeded to dead.

Look at the Night 3 report again. Remember the report of two men fighting in a room. It seems there are some people who can't be automatically killed.

Earlier, during the night, in a hotel, a bit further down the same narrow street...

A man entered his room. Another man pushed the first one and punched him in his face. While the first man was recovering from the blow, the agressor took a piano fibre, ready to strangle his victim. Somehow, the first man managed to roll on his side. He pulled his gun and pointed it at his attacker. The shot, aimed at the attacker's head, missed.

Both men stopped their fight, because of the screams of another man further down the hall.

Maybe Husar was the first man in the above report? Would that make him the detective?

Since you apparently knew the identity of the detective, mind telling the rest of us who it was?

While the identity of the detective is just a guess, I am very much convinced that the detective is dead. Look at Andres's night report quote below:

The people of Taormina gathered near the Porta Messina. They saw Pino's body in a pool of blood.

Without a real leader, they didn't know what to do. They figured they should continue to do what they always did so far.

Now as for what to do now, it does seem that Sasaki, TC, and I are going to be SK bait. Ironically I was the one that worked the hardest to keep Ichigo from being lynched but I don't see the SK worried about notions of "fairness". :laugh4:

As for Northnovas, I have not seen him act any differently than how he normally does. He just is not a very talkative person. Check his posts in other threads. I see him as being innocent.

I think everyone should give Omanes another look. Remember when we were all so gung-ho to lynch him a couple days back? And then Sigurd entered our sights and we all switched over? Well, has Omanes done anything since to alleviate our suspicion of him? TC was able to push Omanes into admitting that he was only busy that one day.

But he has been relatively quiet in here and others have said that is out of character. While NN is acting very much like NN.

vote: Omanes

new tally:

Sasaki 2 (W&F, Makanye)
NorthNovas 2 (TinCow, Sasaki)
Omanes 2 (Curio, Privateerkev)

Curio 1 (Mithrandir)

Husar

05-19-2008, 10:28

Right.. so Rytmic was the detective and if Husar was innocent and out all night; that would mean he was the prostitute. Taketsi killed the prostitute and the Mafia killed the detective.
Your intelligence never lets me down honey.

I already said why I argued against you, it was to stay alive, but noone asked why I wanted to stay alive and obviously I'm not allowed to tell, a bit of combination work on the side of the townies would be required but maybe the above quote could help a little(because I also believe Rythmic was the detective). :sweatdrop:

I'm not sure about Privateerkev being Taketsi, I wonder why you had him as out of bed but most likely innocent and me just out of bed(note that I said earlier that my denial of Sigurd's results was fake, just helping with the combining now).

Also it was not that he made me the Black Knight that was weird about Andres's writeup of my death, it was of a more grammatical nature(hint, hint).
Which also lead me to say that it eradicates the reason I had earlier to say that Prole was likely innocent, let me look for that post...

Well, it could be that she is a female townie just because she's a female female in which case she would not have a male role which would mean that she is not a male killer and thus innocent. One could call that a slip-up on Andres's part but we could stop worrying about her then. It's just a guess but for now it's good enough to lower my suspicion of her.

There it is, well it was a wrong guess, you have to figure out the rest for yourselves. Just a few things I wanted to highlight, maybe someone can make more out of it. :sweatdrop:

edit: Before I forget it, it's Makanyane and Haudegen, not Makanye and Haudegan...

LittleGrizzly

05-19-2008, 11:23

The suspicions about me didn't appear until after a day or 2 of inactivity and ichigo dropping my name in, i went through the reasons a page or 2 back.

im at a bit of a loose end of who to vote but i think we should leave those manfredo will/could kill until we know he's dead and off the scene

Serial killer bait:
Sasaki
Tincow
PK

so were left with
Innocent:
Proletariat
Curio
axel
Elite Ferret
LittleGrizzly

and

possible mafia:
Northnovas
W&F
Makanye
Omanes
Mithrandir
Caius

something about sasakis innocent list and posible mafia list rings true for me so i am going to vote woad & fangs

Makanyane

05-19-2008, 11:39

I don't want to detract thread from analysis of Husar's post that seems like maybe a more promising lead. Re: gramatical stuff Husar's killer was only referred to as the attacker' whereas other killers in last nights write up were called 'the man' - I don't have time at moment to go back and compare with other nights...

Re: Sasaki

I don't have time for a full reread on Makanye. Too many posts and it's very late, sorry. She was very good mafia in netherworld and capo as I recall. Not much attempt at case building this game that I can remember. Suspicious level of carelessness regarding voting this round i.e.
"I have no idea so here's a vote".

nope my vote had a reasoning - one you seem to be keen to ignore

Have no idea left - except mafia is obviously being cleverer than the rest of us
Vote: Sasaki
In longer words; our efforts so far to find any mafia at all by deductions based on their posts - looking for mistakes they may have made and suspicious voting and posting patterns have failed to produce any reduction in the numbers of kills per night. The killers also seem to have been excessively fortunate in not either wasting a kill by attacking same victim, or accidentally taking one of the other killers. Though they do seem to have both taken out the pro-town roles and most people previously on the suspects list. This seems to imply the killers have better intelligence than us, are possibly cooperating and have avoided making any cliched mafia give away mistakes... Sasaki seems the most likely person left capable of pulling that off.

They're the only way to get anywhere. Mafia instinct is to cast careless votes. unless of course the mafia know that too and avoid it - you seem to be adopting a particularly blinkered approach to that possibility. Which makes me think it may be just because its convenient for you.

EDIT: hmm was trying to make sense out of what seemed to be the implied possibility that Prole had a female role as a killer - but on reflection that's not making sense with the other write ups.. :(

Ferret

05-19-2008, 12:02

I have no idea what is going on now. All I know is PK is always very chatty and seems to geniunely be helping the town and so he's off my suspect list. I also agree with Sasaki and we should not lynch someone on the 'Ichigo list'.

So for now I'm gonna take a wild guess off LittleGrizzly's list and vote:mithrandir

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 12:07

I'm not sure about Privateerkev being Taketsi, I wonder why you had him as out of bed but most likely innocent and me just out of bed(note that I said earlier that my denial of Sigurd's results was fake, just helping with the combining now).

I asked Andres what an investigation result on me would be. Here is the very short PM reply from Andres:

home and innocent.

a.

I'm drunk

Anderlecht ! ~:cheers:

Since Sigurd was wrong about me, I assumed he was wrong about you. Sigurd quickly typed up his list right before a lynching. For reasons best known to him, he put my name down as his 3rd investigation. For all I know, it was random. But since I have contested his post, it puts everything he says into suspicion so he has had to combat me verbally for days.

I think we can finally start confirming that Sigurd was indeed Taketsi. It seems that Husar or Rythmic was the detective. And I am becoming convinced that the MiB is indeed the serial killer. The "grinning" has been a very distinctive marker in every SK post and the MiB "grinned" in the 1st post.

So, I think we can pretty much conclude that Sigurd is indeed Taketsi. He used his "list" as a way to manipulate the town. I have gotten in the way of that and have earned his "attention", probably for the remainder of the game. That's ok, my skin is thick.

Being a lightening rod for Sigurd's tender affections is just one of many services I will try to provide. :clown:

new tally:

Sasaki 2 (W&F, Makanye)
NorthNovas 2 (TinCow, Sasaki)
Omanes 2 (Curio, Privateerkev)

Curio 1 (Mithrandir)
W&F 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Mithrandir 1 (Elite Ferret)

Sigurd

05-19-2008, 12:11

Your intelligence never lets me down honey.
Well, I am sorry I might have been responsible for outing you :sweatdrop: I blame Ichigo for not cracking under pressure in the chat. :beam:

I'm not sure about Privateerkev being Taketsi, I wonder why you had him as out of bed but most likely innocent and me just out of bed
Well at first I thought he was just trying to get a glimpse of the two women behind the closed doors that night (it was the same night Prole and the prostitute shared a room). Then when I released the list, within a minute it was important that I remove PK's name from my list, but let pevergreen's stay. Sasaki's argument was that we shouldn't list innocent people.
Then nothing is heard from it until PK bring it up again out of the blue calling me a liar for having a ***** out of bed on night 3.

Notice that I didn't push him in this. I know that my watch report (let's call a spade a spade) is genuine, yet PK wants to discredit it even though only a handful of people saw it.
That he continues to deny such a miniscule thing, speaks of some agenda.
Having a look at the role description found in the first post of this thread we read:

-Taketsi : one of the most cruel killers wandering around this earth. He's a member of an important yakuza family. His job is to take out Gianluca and Luciano and to get the nuclear weapons out of the place. He is able investigate 2 players each night or to kill 1 player. When killing, he'll turn out guilty upon investigation by the Carabinieri or Juliette. If he doesn't kill at night, he'll turn up innocent.
Ok… let’s have a look at the kills on the different nights:

Night 1 – one killed = 1 hit
Night 2 – two killed = 2 hits
Night 3 – two killed and one failed attempt = 3 hits
Night 4 – three killed and one failed attempt = 4 hits
Night 5 – four killed.

This makes me strongly suspect PK. I know that I saw him out of bed on night 3. There were only 3 hits that night.
We know that even though we remove one of the mafia they have never been able to kill more than one. Ichigo caught one of them.
From night 4 there have been a steady 4 hits. And I gather from PK’s sudden defense that He might have been out investigating the first 3 nights and since used his power to kill.
It fits with the role description of Taketsi. He was also the first to bring us information of possible recruits. If more of the initial killers have been removed and we still have 4 hits… Well…

I say lynch Privateerkev now…

Makanyane

05-19-2008, 12:13

the uncomfortable fact remains that Sigurd being lynched didn't result in the absence of a killer...

something that happened recently seems to have resulted in the absence of a prostitute.

and whilst its sad that those on the Ichigo list will probably be killed by the MiB eventually it doesn't mean leaving them alive to get possibly another couple of kills in - if we really think they are guilty - is a good idea.

EDIT: that was in reply to PK - hadn't seen Sigurd there...

TinCow

05-19-2008, 12:13

Sasaki is a bad vote. The only reasons cited against him are essentially that he's a good player. That ignores the fact that if he's a good player, he's good for the town when he's a townie. Lynch him based on evidence, not fear. If he's pro-town, you're destroying a major asset. So far, the only evidence I see against him is the first night block, which has already been discussed ad nauseum and I which I no longer think is a good enough reason for a vote.

For the record, I have thought that Husar was the prostitute for a few days now. Ichigo knew who the prostitute was, and there are some small elements of cooperation between their postings. In addition, Husar was attacking Proletariat in the thread just before she was blocked by the prostitute. This would also explain how Husar was 'out' on Night 1. Finally, Husar was killed last night and there was no prostitute action. Husar contacted me shortly before he died. Here is the complete PM chain I exchanged with him. Since I think he was the prostitute, it may contain useful information:

Hey TinCow, please do me a favor and somehow spin me into a simple townie in the thread, if still possible, Sigurd's result is accurate, I'm just trying to discredit him because otherwise I'd have to reveal which means I'll be dead the next night. Your assessment of my possible role wasn't bad, you may be able to figure it out but doing it in the thread just means the mafia gets the same information which in turn means I'll die. I'm fine with getting a few votes as long as it's not the majority.

Quite simply put, if the mafia thinks I can perform night actions, I'm dead, that's how I always see it. :shrug:

I'll see what I can do, but it's going to be almost impossible to hide the fact that you have a role. My personal hunch is that you are the prostitute, based on some parallels between your posts and Ichigo's posts. The best strategy I see is to make the mafia think you're the hitman, because that's a role that could conceivably be pro-mafia and thus in their interests to keep alive. I know you can't PM Ichigo, but I suspect he would figure out what you were doing and support it in a proper way in the thread.

You do not need to confirm to me whether you are the prostitute or not. I will simply operate under that assumption. With that in mind, I would like to know whether you think Sasaki is mafia or town. A simple "I think Sasaki is X" is good enough for me and it shouldn't violate the rules.
Heh, Ichigo investigated me so he knows my role and I have absolutely no idea about Sasaki to be honest.

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 12:25

Sigurd:

I've also noticed all three people you mentioned in your "list" are on the SK's hit list. Now I'm not saying your the SK but you seem awfully anxious to get one of the last 3 people on the SK's list, lynched. And your "list" put the spotlight on 3 of those people.

I say your Taketsi and your trying to mess us up.

If Rythmic or Husar was the detective, and the MiB is the SK, then how can I be Taketsi if you really could investigate?

Your story is full of holes Sigurd. For your story to have any chance at being true, you need for there to be more investigators than there is.

Now I know you'll point out the fact that there have been Yakuza kills since you've been lynched. But if you've noticed, the yakuza has been killing, but the number of kills per night has not been reduced. So, the yakuza has probably not been killing other mafia. Therefore, the yakuza is probably not investigating. In fact, I would guess that the yakuza "can't" investigate.

Let's look again at who you could be.

Juliette: no, Ichigo is Juliette.

Manfredo: Manfredo can only investigate if someone is, or is not, Juliette

Detective: It seems likely that Rythmic or Husar was the detective. Regardless, we now know for sure the detective is dead from the last night report. The detective was killed well after you were lynched.

MiB: There seems to be consensus that the MiB is the SK.

Taketsi: This is the logical conclusion with the information we have. Yet you now claim I am Taketsi. If I was, then how could you have been investigating?

Unless your claiming some secret investigating role for yourself.

woad&fangs

05-19-2008, 13:06

In my defense, I was in Missouri without internet access for all of the night phase and most of the last day phase. However, there were still 4 kills last night.

Unvote: Sasaki
because he is on the SK's list.

I believe Makanyane is innocent. Her role PM trick with EF was rather clever. I doubt a mafioso would want to prove someone innocent.

So using LittleGrizz'z list that leaves Northnovas, Omanes, Caius, and Mithrinder as good lynch choices in my opinion.

Sigurd

05-19-2008, 13:20

I am not going to quote all of your statements as I am pressed for time at work. But let's take a look on some of the gems:

If Rythmic or Husar was the detective, and the MiB is the SK, then how can I be Taketsi if you really could investigate?
I have in my previous post redefined the term of my nighly actions. Let's call it watching hereafter and not confuse it with the investigation power of Carabinieri, Taketsi and Manfredo.

Now I know you'll point out the fact that there have been Yakuza kills since you've been lynched. But if you've noticed, the yakuza has been killing, but the number of kills per night has not been reduced. So, the yakuza has probably not been killing other mafia. Therefore, the yakuza is probably not investigating. In fact, I would guess that the yakuza "can't" investigate.
What kind of argument or logic is this?

Yakuza have killed.
Yet have not killed mafia.
Therefore yakuza can't investigate.
unsound logic and Red Herring.

Let's look again at who you could be.

Juliette: no, Ichigo is Juliette.

Manfredo: Manfredo can only investigate if someone is, or is not, Juliette

Detective: It seems likely that Rythmic or Husar was the detective. Regardless, we now know for sure the detective is dead from the last night report. The detective was killed well after you were lynched.

MiB: There seems to be consensus that the MiB is the SK.

Taketsi: This is the logical conclusion with the information we have. Yet you now claim I am Taketsi. If I was, then how could you have been investigating?

Ok.. let's see.

Detective can not kill
Juliette can not kill (dead anyway)
Prostitute can not kill
Manfredo can kill
Taketsi can kill
Gianluca and Luciano can kill but XOR.
SK aka MiB can kill

We had 4 kills last night and I have been dead a while.
Logic says I can't be one of the killers and hence not Taketsi as you propose.
The very fact that there are still 4 kills puts the role of Taketsi still alive using your logic of 'known roles only'. Therefore we can safely conclude that it is not me who is trying to confuse the town, but rather you.
This is the 'Gotta have more mafia' all over again, but this time I am CR and you are me trying to fool the town.

That Sasaki hasn't caught your reek yet, speaks of accomplice.
Come on town put at least some votes on privateerkev. :smash:

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 13:29

I don't like to be painted as maffia, I can swear to all that is camel that I'm not.

Why does everyone believe Sasaki's word to be true? Unless he is a proven detective and has investigated everyone, his guess is as good as most, right?

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 13:32

Let's call it watching hereafter and not confuse it with the investigation power of Carabinieri, Taketsi and Manfredo.

Watching!?! :laugh4:

That is your defense? That you don't investigate, but only watch!?!

That one truly made my morning... Thank you... :bow:

What kind of argument or logic is this?

Yakuza have killed.
Yet have not killed mafia.
Therefore yakuza can't investigate.
unsound logic and Red Herring.

Yakuza need to kill Carelli
Yakuza need to find Carelli first
Yakuza investigate people to see if they are Carelli
If Yakuza finds Carelli, Yakuza kills Carelli
If Yakuza does not do this, Carelli eventually kills Yakuza
If Yakuza kills Carelli, kills should go down
If kills do not go down, then Yakuza has probably not killed Carelli
If Yakuza is not killing Carelli, then Yakuza is probably not finding Carelli
Therefore, Yakuza is not investigating.

Why?

My guess is that the only Yakuza that could investigate is Taketsi and that is Sigurd. Sigurd is covering for his Yakuza mate who I have guessed is Pevergreen. Now that Pevergreen is dead, we'll see if there are anymore Yakuza style kills.

TinCow

05-19-2008, 13:32

We had 4 kills last night and I have been dead a while.
Logic says I can't be one of the killers and hence not Taketsi as you propose.
The very fact that there are still 4 kills puts the role of Taketsi still alive using your logic of 'known roles only'. Therefore we can safely conclude that it is not me who is trying to confuse the town, but rather you.
This is the 'Gotta have more mafia' all over again, but this time I am CR and you are me trying to fool the town.

That Sasaki hasn't caught your reek yet, speaks of accomplice.
Come on town put at least some votes on privateerkev. :smash:

This conveniently ignores the fact that 00jebus was mafia and was lynched. Therefore we already have 4 kills with only 3 surviving killers. This means that some of the mafia can either kill more than once per night, or there are more killers than the initial role post indicates. If that is true in one case, there's no reason it couldn't be true in another.

Sigurd

05-19-2008, 13:42

Watching!?! :laugh4:
That is your defense? That you don't investigate, but only watch!?!
That one truly made my morning... Thank you... :bow:
I know you are new to mafia and I will not hold this against you. But let me throw in an advice: Read more mafia threads... Basing your argumentation on Netherworld only will only make you look like a fool.

Yakuza need to kill Carelli
Yakuza need to find Carelli first
Yakuza investigate people to see if they are Carelli
If Yakuza finds Carelli, Yakuza kills Carelli
If Yakuza does not do this, Carelli eventually kills Yakuza
If Yakuza kills Carelli, kills should go down
If kills do not go down, then Yakuza has probably not killed Carelli
If Yakuza is not killing Carelli, then Yakuza is probably not finding Carelli
Therefore, Yakuza is not investigating.
Now that is better.
But there is still getting the nukes out of town isn't there?
Maybe you kill to narrow down the suspects and perhaps get lucky getting the last mafia and at the same time get rid of the townies to get the nukes out. That would be the smart thing to do if I were Taketsi.

My guess is that the only Yakuza that could investigate is Taketsi and that is Sigurd. Sigurd is covering for his Yakuza mate who I have guessed is Pevergreen. Now that Pevergreen is dead, we'll see if there are anymore Yakuza style kills. Yeah... convinently there will be only 3 kills in the following night because you decide to do an investigation that night.
Why were you out of bed night 3?

TinCow

05-19-2008, 13:48

You're doing a valiant job Sigurd, but PK is right that your "watching" excuse is laughable. Your 'results' included that pevergreen was "innocent" and PK was "probably innocent." If you had some kind of lesser "watching" ability, as you claim, why were you getting full investigation results?

The real question is why you're still fighting this so hard. Are you just trying to confuse the town, or are you actively trying to protect someone?

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 13:50

I know you are new to mafia and I will not hold this against you. But let me throw in an advice: Read more mafia threads... Basing your argumentation on Netherworld only will only make you look like a fool.

So now your claiming a secret watching role? And just how different is "watching" from "investigating" anyways? Does forgetting to post your night action PM's before your lynched mean you were "watching"?

Now that is better.
But there is still getting the nukes out of town isn't there?
Maybe you kill to narrow down the suspects and perhaps get lucky getting the last mafia and at the same time get rid of the townies to get the nukes out. That would be the smart thing to do if I were Taketsi.

But with multiple killers out there, and the chance that yakuza will be killed by a Carelli by chance, it is in the yakuza's interest to take out a Carelli when he finds one. Once the Carelli's are gone, then the yakuza could rest easy knowing he won't be knocked off by accident by a Carelli who thinks the yakuza is just a townie.

Why were you out of bed night 3?

I wasn't. I feel we are treading well covered ground now. Do you have any new observations or will you insist on asking me the same questions over and over? :smash:

Caius

05-19-2008, 14:05

Im really lost in this game. I havent been doing something because I got lost here.
Im going to vote:Omanes, its not his style to lurk heavily.

Sigurd

05-19-2008, 14:21

But with multiple killers out there, and the chance that yakuza will be killed by a Carelli by chance, it is in the yakuza's interest to take out a Carelli when he finds one. Once the Carelli's are gone, then the yakuza could rest easy knowing he won't be knocked off by accident by a Carelli who thinks the yakuza is just a townie.
This in not logical to me. It would be better for Taketsi to kill every night instead of first investigate and then kill. Killing every night covers more ground than investigating two and then kill one if he happens to find a mafia.

I wasn't. I feel we are treading well covered ground now. Do you have any new observations or will you insist on asking me the same questions over and over? :smash:
Same back at you... you insists on pulling out the fact that only the Detective ,Manfredo, Juliette and Taketsi can investigate, putting your mind in a box where the only roles are those defined in the opening post, then in some posts you turn around completely and hints to more than one yakuza or mafia. And I have already explained sufficiently why I did not bother getting the three watch reports out of my inbox to post them here.

You are overly defensive for a mere townie. Wasn't one of the strategies of the town to lynch desperately defensive players? :whip:

KukriKhan

05-19-2008, 14:22

I said it before, I'll say it again: kill the lurkers.:yes:

:returns to his coffin:

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 14:34

This in not logical to me. It would be better for Taketsi to kill every night instead of first investigate and then kill. Killing every night covers more ground than investigating two and then kill one if he happens to find a mafia.

But it is exactly what you did. You investigated until you killed CR. (I'm assuming that was you since it was done yakuza style.) You get 2 investigations a night but you only showed 3 results. I wonder what the 4th said...

Same back at you... you insists on pulling out the fact that only the Detective ,Manfredo, Juliette and Taketsi can investigate, putting your mind in a box where the only roles are those defined in the opening post, then in some posts you turn around completely and hints to more than one yakuza or mafia.

The last night report mentions a rather noobish mafioso killing Pevergreen. So I think it is safe to assume there are roles that aren't in the 1st post. But I am not convinced there are investigative roles that are not in the first post. Maybe there are. But I do believe you have investigative powers. And my guess is that you are Taketsi. I have always allowed the possibility that there might be other secret investigative roles out there but I find it unlikely.

And I have already explained sufficiently why I did not bother getting the three watch reports out of my inbox to post them here.

Actually you haven't. Your claim of a bad connection is mighty convenient. My guess is you didn't want to post them because it would cause questions. It is to your advantage to be vague so as to confuse us further.

You are overly defensive for a mere townie. Wasn't one of the strategies of the town to lynch desperately defensive players? :whip:

No, I just believe in calling bullcrap when I see it. I have answered you point for point but your not satisfied. Your being overly aggresive for being a harmless pro-town role that has the secret power of "watching".

Sigurd

05-19-2008, 14:41

This conveniently ignores the fact that 00jebus was mafia and was lynched. Therefore we already have 4 kills with only 3 surviving killers. You assume someone got one of the killers last night; or more specifically Manfredo.
This is not by any means confirmed. There were 4 kills and that is still feasable without 00jebus and keeping within the defined roles box.

You're doing a valiant job Sigurd, but PK is right that your "watching" excuse is laughable. Your 'results' included that pevergreen was "innocent" and PK was "probably innocent." If you had some kind of lesser "watching" ability, as you claim, why were you getting full investigation results?

The real question is why you're still fighting this so hard. Are you just trying to confuse the town, or are you actively trying to protect someone?

It didn't say innocent per say, It is my interpretation of the alignment evidence.
Well, I am fighting PK on the simple fact that he claims that my result on him is a lie. I can't stand being called a liar and will fight this to the end. If you bother to read some of the other games I played, you might notice a different tactic when I actually lie.
PK didn't need to accuse me of this in the first place. If he had let it slide I would have thought naught of my results and probably hounded Husar instead. He has basically admitted that I got him right.

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 14:53

You assume someone got one of the killers last night; or more specifically Manfredo.
This is not by any means confirmed. There were 4 kills and that is still feasable without 00jebus and keeping within the defined roles box.

Not true. We are sure that we lynched a second mafioso. Yourself. So, there are 3 roles from the box left that kill. Yet 4 kills.

It didn't say innocent per say, It is my interpretation of the alignment evidence.

Ah how convenient. I see now. "Watching" allows you to interpret the alignment while "investigating" tells you the alignment. *sarcasm*

Well, I am fighting PK on the simple fact that he claims that my result on him is a lie. I can't stand being called a liar and will fight this to the end. If you bother to read some of the other games I played, you might notice a different tactic when I actually lie. PK didn't need to accuse me of this in the first place. If he had let it slide I would have thought naught of my results and probably hounded Husar instead. He has basically admitted that I got him right.

Your the one that lied. Right before you were lynched, you posted my name in a way that infers I have a "power-town" role. Which basically turned me into "mafia-bait". Since it seemed that few people saw my name, I was content to let it go. But then people tried to lynch Husar on the basis of your post. I believed Husar had a "power-town" role so I tried to save him. Since your post was wrong about me, I thought it could be wrong about him as well. (your post insinuated that Husar was guilty) But protecting Husar in that way required me to admit I was the third name on your list.

From reading TC's post with Husar's pm's, it seems Husar was the prostitute. So it seems my instincts to protect him were right. But doing so put me in your crosshairs. But I consider it worth it. :yes:

So, fight on to the end as you wish my dear Taketsi. I am content that I did the right thing. :2thumbsup:

seireikhaan

05-19-2008, 15:32

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 15:47

seireikhaan

05-19-2008, 15:52

Husar

05-19-2008, 15:58

Or how about we lynch Privateerkev, then stop accusing everybody and their mother of being Taketsi and try to find some of the other killers? Note that step one is optional.

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 16:06

And yet there's still the issue of how he could have been a killer. 00jebus was investigated by Ichigo and was clear cut guilty. For Sigurd to be a killer as well would imply that there were 6 'killer' roles which, given the relatively light defenses given to the town, seems rather incredible.

I'm guessing there is actually 7.

We know there is a Carelli, yakuza, Manfredo, and SK around.

We know about 00jebus and Sigurd. And now there seems to be a "nooby" mafia.

00Jebus and Sigurd are dead. Maybe the latest round of lynchings and killings got Manfredo and maybe another mafia. It is my guess (and hope) that Haudagen is Manfredo and Pever is Sigurd's yakuza henchman.

Hopefully we can lynch the SK this round.

That might leave us with only a couple mafia left if we're lucky. The Carelli and the noob.

Of course this is all gambling that Andres is very cruel to his players but it is possible. :clown:

TinCow

05-19-2008, 16:08

PK, Sigurd's case against you is actually quite legitimate. There have been numerous 'watch' roles in mafia games before, whereupon its up to the player to determine what said result actually means. And surely if you read Netherworld thoroughly, you would know that secret roles are more than acceptable in any mafia game. Heck, most of my roles were secret, numerically at least.

It's definitely possible that there are secret roles. The problem is that Sigurd has been inconsistent in his statements. Right at the very beginning, before he was even dead, he claimed to have a role that was similar to the "hobo."

I am not dead yet...
Husar was not home during night in round 1.
Pevergreen was home and innocent on night 2.
**** was not in his bed but probably innocent on night 3.

Remember the Hobo?

I went to look this up, since it was apparently a reference to a role in a different game that I wasn't involved in. I found the most references in "Gotta have more Mafia" which was run by Sasaki. I read the last couple pages, when the Hobo was revealed, but it wasn't entirely clear to me what the role did. So, I asked Sasaki himself. He created the role, so he knows better than anyone:

I did a search for the 'hobo' role, since that term has been tossed around in the Taormina thread. The main reference seems to be in the Gotta have more Mafia game, which you hosted. It's not entirely clear what the Hobo could do from the few posts I have read. Am I right in thinking that the Hobo was a role blocker in your game?

Had to reread that myself.

Yes, he was a roleblocker with the addition that whoever he blocked got revealed in the write up as having been blocked. This doesn't fit with Sigurd's claim.

Sasaki

So, we have Sigurd claiming a secret role which is similar to the "Hobo." Yet the write-ups indicate absolutely nothing which make it similar to the previous Hobo role. There has been only one role blocker, the prostitute, and there are no write-ups of any kind that indicate any kind of Hobo-ish activity. So, why is Sigurd claiming to have a role similar to the Hobo, when whatever role he has does not share any of the same attributes with the Hobo? It seems to me like a spur of the moment lie designed to try and save his neck.

I'm not saying PK is completely innocent here, as Sigurd's results appear to me to be accurate. However, Sigurd is definitely scumtastic. His statements are inconsistent and don't jive with an honest reveal by a pro-town role.

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 16:33

We interrupt this broadcast for a quick vote tally update:

Omanes 3 (Curio, Privateerkev, Caius)

NorthNovas 2 (TinCow, Sasaki)

Sasaki 1 (Makanye)
Curio 1 (Mithrandir)
W&F 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Mithrandir 1 (Elite Ferret)

Sigurd

05-19-2008, 16:37

bla .. bla .. bla Crazed Rabbit bla .. bla .. bla Oh right... So I, Taketsi found CR to be one of the mafia and killed him with my yakuza ninja kicks.
Oh.. noez someone tried to kick TinCow and kicked Husar to deathwhile Taketsi was previously lynched. Please... :inquisitive:

I'm guessing there is actually 7. :laugh4: :laugh4: ... Yeah right... that will make a balanced game.

For there to be that kind of mafia power there should be equal pro-town power.
Maybe my role doesn't seem too far fetched after all. :idea2:
And you guys are stumbling on my hobo clue. You need to think how we as players percieved the Hobo in that game.

Omanes Alexandrapolites

05-19-2008, 16:39

I'm waking up late and have stopped going home for dinner, so don't really have much forum access except towards the end of the night phase. I apologise for lurking, but I really am unable to help it. Onward with the analysis anyhow:

Sigurd has a point against Privateerkev. I think of him as too active personally, but I have not seen anything in his posts which suggest mafia activity. The main issue is that he, along with Sassaki, is the only highly active/veteran player alive. I would like to hear more from him on the matter, but for now I'm willing to presume him innocent. I don't trust Sigurd either.

I also have to say something about Caius - "oh the irony". He votes me for lurking while being seriously inactive himself - I personally think he's just after an easy lynch targert. Is he a lazy townie or a cunning mafioso?

Sassaki Kojiro is another individual I don't really like. He was with the prostitute on night 1 - true, but there also just happened to be one kill on that night. It could be attributed to one killer choosing to investigate, or it could be considered a sign of guilt. He's also an intelligent player, so I wouldn't put any deception past him.

Mayankene I feel has slipped under the radar a little. I'm weary of her for some reason, yet I can't seem to pinpoint why - all her posts seem perfectly normal (for her).

Mithrandir is like Mayankene, he too has slipped under the attention of most. In this case though I do have a reason - he's too flippant, has too many hunches and appears to act naievly at time. This could be attributed to his newness, but it also could be atributed to mafia behaviour.

Since Sasaki, who I would prefer to lynch, will probably be at risk of death from the insane brother, I'm going to:

Vote: Mithrandir

Caius

05-19-2008, 16:42

Ive been following this thread.
Unvote:Omanes
Vote:Abstain

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 16:46

Oh right... So I, Taketsi found CR to be one of the mafia and killed him with my yakuza ninja kicks.
Oh.. noez someone tried to kick TinCow and kicked Husar to deathwhile Taketsi was previously lynched. Please... :inquisitive:
:laugh4: :laugh4: ... Yeah right... that will make a balanced game.

I've long argued that Pever was your yakuza buddy. I just can't figure out if you got him in the beginning of the game, or you got him later.

Perhaps you investigated for 3 turns. Then, you would have 6 results, not 3. But you can't exactly report all 6 or that would look suspicious. So you quickly write out 3 results. I believe there are 1-3 results that you haven't mentioned at all. And I know you made up the results on at least 1 of the ones you did mention. Probably 2 since I believe you made up Pever's to make him seem innocent. You left Husar's as is or tweaked it to make him seem guilty so we'd lynch him.

For there to be that kind of mafia power there should be equal pro-town power.

Seeing as 5 of the 7 possible roles are probably dead, I'd say we're doing ok. If these games were too easy, they wouldn't be fun. I admit my figure of 5 dead bad guys is optimistic but we'll see how the next night goes.

tally:

Omanes 2 (Curio, Privateerkev)
NorthNovas 2 (TinCow, Sasaki)
Mithrandir 2 (Elite Ferret, Omanes)

Sasaki 1 (Makanye)
Curio 1 (Mithrandir)
W&F 1 (LittleGrizzly)

Abstain: 1 (Caius)

Makanyane

05-19-2008, 17:13

Seeing as 5 of the 7 possible roles are probably dead, I'd say we're doing ok. If these games were too easy, they wouldn't be fun. I admit my figure of 5 dead bad guys is optimistic but we'll see how the next night goes.

you seem to have made a complete departure from logic in your attempt to argue yourself out of suspicion. "5 dead bad guys" is cloud cuckoo land
2 dead bad guys is about as optimistic as I can get to at the moment..

Re: your earlier analysis that because the grinning brother stuck his victims head by Ichigo's grave - why does that mean the victim was Manfredo? Ichigo only died the night before so there wasn't previously a grave to adorn with severed heads....

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 17:18

you seem to have made a complete departure from logic in your attempt to argue yourself out of suspicion. "5 dead bad guys" is cloud cuckoo land
2 dead bad guys is about as optimistic as I can get to at the moment..

Re: your earlier analysis that because the grinning brother stuck his victims head by Ichigo's grave - why does that mean the victim was Manfredo? Ichigo only died the night before so there wasn't previously a grave to adorn with severed heads....

We've lynched 00Jebus and Sigurd.

I suspect that Haudagen is Manfredo and Pever is the other yakuza.

I am also hoping that we'll lynch the SK today.

Tomorrow night we'll see if the night report is missing people. If it is, it is possible that those roles are dead.

And that would mean 5 dead bad guys.

Optimistic? maybe. But since I have at least a 1/3 chance of dying tonight, I need to be optimistic...

Makanyane

05-19-2008, 17:31

I suspect that Haudagen is Manfredo

Do you have any reason for that other than the fact that the first night after Juliette was buried - her brother put his victims head on her newly dug grave?

TinCow

05-19-2008, 17:36

I am also hoping that we'll lynch the SK today.

Since you are voting for Omanes currently, that presumably means you think Omanes is the MiB. Please explain why you think this. So far the only evidence against Omanes that I have seen is his lack of activity. How could you possibly suspect he's the MiB?

In any case, I don't think the MiB is anti-town and it's inappropriate to refer to him as a SK. His kills have been: makaikhaan (N2) Glenn (N3) AntiWarmanCake (N4) Haudegen (N5). With the possible exception of makaikhaan, every single one of these people had significant questions raised about their innocence prior to their deaths. It seems to me like the MiB has been making a serious attempt to go after real mafia suspects, within the limits imposed on him by being forced to choose from those who voted for Ichigo. He does not appear to be killing randomly. I think it most likely that his role victory requirements are to keep Juliette alive, kill Manfredo, and survive himself. Eliminating the entire town does not seem to fit with the role. Despite the fact that I'm on the MiB's list of potential targets, I don't think he's truly anti-town.

In my mind, it is a major mistake to go after the MiB instead of the mafia. The town can probably still win with the MiB alive, which is not true of the mafia. At best, the MiB has now killed Manfredo and doesn't have to kill ever again. At worst, he will kill PK, Sasaki, and myself and then that will be that. Focusing on him over the mafia is a mistake.

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 17:54

Vote: Mithrandir

[/B]

I just stated a few posts back that my hunches were going nowhere so I'd rather trust random.org

as for being flippant... check my posts outside the gameroom, you'll find I'm always 'flippant' (if I've found the right definition that is).

naieve: yes. This ismy first maffia game. :inquisitive:

but much much much more important: I swore on all that is camel that I;m not maffia.

unvote

Vote: Omanes

For not believing my oath on all that is camel and lurking except for when you're in trouble.

Haudegen

05-19-2008, 18:12

At best, the MiB has now killed Manfredo and doesn't have to kill ever again.

I don't think so, Tin :smash:

woad&fangs

05-19-2008, 18:39

I believe Omanes. The only evidence against him is his unusual lack of activity. He has now explained that and I do not believe he is the kind of person who would lie like that to win.

Unvote: Sasaki; Vote Caius
I won't feel too bad if I lose to Sasaki. I don't want to lose to a lurker.

Omanes Alexandrapolites

05-19-2008, 18:51

I just stated a few posts back that my hunches were going nowhere so I'd rather trust random.org

as for being flippant... check my posts outside the gameroom, you'll find I'm always 'flippant' (if I've found the right definition that is).

naieve: yes. This ismy first maffia game. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/gc/gc-inquisitive.gif

but much much much more important: I swore on all that is camel that I;m not maffia.

unvote

Vote: Omanes

For not believing my oath on all that is camel and lurking except for when you're in trouble.From my perspective, you've just voted for me because I've voted for you - a fairly scummy reason. It also seems like a self-preservation vote - we were tied and now you have broken the tie to save yourself? A townie never fears death - a mafioso on the other hand, does.

As for only posting when I'm in trouble, if that is the case it's purely coincidental. I can only really have the opportunity to post during the day phases final hours which gives a bandwagon or accusation chance to take shape against me (as I've said). I have in the past posted when not in trouble though - indeed most of my posts have been under that circumstance.

On that note, you've just posted because you happen to be in trouble. The irony, which is also demonstrated by your activity levels being quite close to mine, is fairly clear.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 18:53

I skimmed most of the sigurd-pk discussion. There's no point in lynching SK-bait, and we can't lynch a dead player.

nope my vote had a reasoning - one you seem to be keen to ignore

Have no idea left - except mafia is obviously being cleverer than the rest of us
Vote: Sasaki

In longer words; our efforts so far to find any mafia at all by deductions based on their posts - looking for mistakes they may have made and suspicious voting and posting patterns have failed to produce any reduction in the numbers of kills per night. The killers also seem to have been excessively fortunate in not either wasting a kill by attacking same victim, or accidentally taking one of the other killers. Though they do seem to have both taken out the pro-town roles and most people previously on the suspects list. This seems to imply the killers have better intelligence than us, are possibly cooperating and have avoided making any cliched mafia give away mistakes... Sasaki seems the most likely person left capable of pulling that off.

It is indeed a careless vote and uses false logic. For one thing killing suspects is a bad mafia strategy so it doesn't make sense to describe it as clever. Second, it's the fifth day. A look at past games reveals that it is rare to find mafia by analysis before this point, because there aren't enough posts. Looking for mistakes and examining voting patterns is the most successful way for a townie to find mafia. This isn't questionable. Your vote is also careless because there are many smart, successful and experienced mafia on the alive list who you make no attempt to examine.

unless of course the mafia know that too and avoid it - you seem to be adopting a particularly blinkered approach to that possibility. Which makes me think it may be just because its convenient for you.

This is incorrect. Even if the mafia avoid it it is still their instinct. Because the mafia really don't care. And if they do make a more thought out post, it is then up for examination and cross questioning. This is the second or third time you've used poor logic to justify your previous vote on me. It's a common mafia strategy when accused of a vote lacking in substance.

Remember, With three potential WoG's and 4 potential kills, the size of the town could conceivably be cut in half. You're not the only one who could do with more substance.

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 19:02

Do you have any reason for that other than the fact that the first night after Juliette was buried - her brother put his victims head on her newly dug grave?

Aside from the other suspicions already voiced about Haudagen, no.

Since I'm still on the list, you can basically call it wishful thinking on my part to hope Juliette's brother is dead.

Since you are voting for Omanes currently, that presumably means you think Omanes is the MiB. Please explain why you think this. So far the only evidence against Omanes that I have seen is his lack of activity. How could you possibly suspect he's the MiB?

It's a guess. I don't have more to go on. But since I have a 33% chance of being killed by Juliette's brother tonight, I am literally gambling with my life.
(my "trapped in taormina" life, that is)

He's been suspicious. Others have noticed it. I'm content to cast my vote and roll the dice. If he isn't Juliette's brother, he might be mafia. Either way, I'm happy.

new tally:

Omanes 3 (Curio, Privateerkev, Mithrandir)

NorthNovas 2 (TinCow, Sasaki)
Mithrandir 2 (Elite Ferret, Omanes)

Sasaki 1 (Makanye)
W&F 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Caius 1 (W&F)

Abstain: 1 (Caius)

Omanes Alexandrapolites

05-19-2008, 19:04

Lynch at will - I promise not to stop you. If it helps you turn your attention onto guilty players then I'm willing to make that sacrifice :shrug:

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 19:08

Northnovas is a better lynch.

Northnovas

05-19-2008, 19:39

Northnovas is a better lynch.

How do you figure? When reading a post where one is the subject I see how much of nothing goes into the post. It is hard to do a statement an analysis when there is no statement.

[QUOTE=Sasaki Kojiro]Possible his not being online meant he didn't send a kill? Not evidence of it. A nothing vote.
Still no vote. He does vote for 00Jebus.

Next few posts aren't interesting, just apologies for missing votes and lurking.

This is the interesting set:
Just catching up on the current post.

unvote:axel
vote:Haudegen

Going on a hunch!

He appears to be voting for popular candidates indiscriminately with fake reasons at times. Good lynch choice.

First I do not have any orders to send. I wasn't online because of the time difference and being on the road last week I was unable to log in during the day. When I did I just missed Andres cut off warning.

PK made a good point about Axel and went with but when Axel explained his activity I unvoted and went with Haudegen that was not obviously a good vote. Everyone seems a little stumped locating the mafia. My vote was as good as some of the analysing I have been reading.

Post to little suspicious, post too much a target. I am not one to post an opinion when there is not much to go on it's not my style.

Your first night activity is still supicious to me and other members. I think if I was mafia I would be posting the same but not trying to explain myself when I miss a vote or how I vote. I would rather stay under the RADAR. I haven't this game because I have nothing to hide.

Vote: Northnovas

Lets get a townie lynch and with more mafia kills tonight; will put the town in great shape for a win.

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 19:58

From my perspective, you've just voted for me because I've voted for you That's right.

It also seems like a self-preservation vote - we were tied and now you have broken the tie to save yourself? indeed.
A townie never fears death - a mafioso on the other hand, does. Why is that? Both maffioso and townies need to stay alive to win. Aside from that, I enjoy the game so I want to stay in, that's not odd.

As for only posting when I'm in trouble, if that is the case it's purely coincidental. I can only really have the opportunity to post during the day phases final hours which gives a bandwagon or accusation chance to take shape against me (as I've said).
~:rolleyes:

On that note, you've just posted because you happen to be in trouble. The irony, which is also demonstrated by your activity levels being quite close to mine, is fairly clear.

Another lie, since this is the first round where someone voted for me, though I have been active all rounds, unlike some other players :inquisitive:

:thumbsdown:

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 20:15

*** Sorry, screenshots are not allowed - Andres ***

TinCow

05-19-2008, 20:25

I was asking him a question about the Night 4 PM he sent me when I was with the prostitute.

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 20:28

Apologies to host :bow: I was not actively aware about the no screenshots rule.

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 20:35

*edit*

I just found out Mod's can see invisible people. I simply think that knowledge is important so no one assumes that no one can see them if they are in invisible mode.

The rest is unimportant and was just a misunderstanding. I'm sorry for my part in it. :bow:

new tally:

Omanes 3 (Curio, Privateerkev, Mithrandir)
NorthNovas 3 (TinCow, Sasaki, Northnovas)

Mithrandir 2 (Elite Ferret, Omanes)

Sasaki 1 (Makanye)
W&F 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Caius 1 (W&F)

Abstain: 1 (Caius)

Makanyane

05-19-2008, 20:39

EDIT: nvmind - answering edited post

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2008, 20:40

We can see invisible and the name of the person they are pm'ing.

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 20:40

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 20:43

I personally believe this is something the players should know about. We have a right to know if Mod's can see our accounts when we think they can't.

But since Andres is the GM, I will defer to him and he can edit my posts as he wishes. :bow:

TinCow

05-19-2008, 20:43

Ok, I was not aware of that fact, I thought all could see the currently online list. I did not take into account that I could see more than others.

I will ride my camel out of town (suicide from this game) to prevent any misunderstandings.

:bow:

I really don't think that's necessary. The rules were not posted in the first post. It was easy to miss them and you shouldn't be faulted for not noticing them, since no one ever pointed them out in this thread.

Andres

05-19-2008, 21:08

Moderators can see through invisible mode, but it's not something we can switch on/off, so "exploiting Mod powers" sounds a bit too harsh.

The first post mentions:

* no screenshots

I know you were really enjoying this game Mithrandir and I really hate to do this, but rules are rules...

So sorry, but I'll have to accept Mith's suicide.

Mithrandir, I respect your honorable attitude. Apologies wholeheartedly accepted. You're always welcome in any of my future games, good sir :bow:

Omanes Alexandrapolites

05-19-2008, 21:13

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

Might as well do something useful with my free vote. As I've said before, I don't trust him and we can't guarantee the psychopathic brother is going to get him either.

Tally
Omanes Alexandrapolites - 3 (Curio, Privateerkev, Mithrandir)
Northnovas - 3 (TinCow, Sasaki Kojiro, Northnovas)

Sasaki Kojiro - 2 (Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

woad&fangs - 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Caius - 1 (woad&fangs)

Abstain - 1 (Caius)

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 21:19

Some part of me wasn't enjoying the game quite as much after night 3 anyway ~;).

Andres

05-19-2008, 21:23

Voting closed. Votes will be counted and write-up posted.

Stand by for execution.

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 21:23

Please let my camel live at least Andres....

Andres

05-19-2008, 21:47

Day 5 - Conclusion

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Taormina-PortaMessina.jpg

Porta Messina - Taormina - 10.30 p.m.

It was hot that day. Even now, at 10.30 pm it was still 30° Celsius.

The smell of anxious sweat was dominating.

Several people were being found suspicious.

Two of them were most probably guilty, according to the townspeople.

Both Northnovas and Omanes were put forward. The mob started to hit them both and somebody had two ropes ready for them.

"Wait! Wait! We shouldn't lynch more then one person each day! The Carabinieri said so!" a voice yelled.

"Screw the Carabnieri! He's dead now! What good were his rules for him, eh? Lynch them both! Blood, we want to see blood."

"No!", a tall man stepped forward. "We have to obey the rules!"

The crowd yelled at the man.

"I will rather die then break the rules," the man, also known as Mithrandir, said.

He ran to the funivia and jumped, yelling : "My noble camel who died bravely during the eruption, I..."

SPLASH!

The people were shocked. Somebody did a recount and noticed that Northnovas had more votes then Omanes.

The crying Northnovas soon had a rope around his neck. Before he could make a last wish, he was swinging on the Porta Messina. A few minutes later, Northnovas was no more.

"Tommorow morning at the Teatro Greco", somebody yelled. Everybody nodded in agreement.

***

Before going to bed, Bananabob and Tratorix decided to take a walk to the funivia, to see if they could retrieve Mithrandir's body to give it a proper burial. When they reached the edge, however, Bananabob slipped away. Tratorix tried to save him, but the 120 kilo's of Bananabob, who had discovered the delicious Penne ala Norma, a local speciality, were too much for Tratorix and they both fell down, a sickening "splash" sound marking the end of their lives.

***

Tally:

Northnovas - 3 :skull: (TinCow, Sasaki Kojiro, Northnovas)

Omanes Alexandrapolites - 3 2 (Curio, Privateerkev, Mithrandir (after Mith's suicide, Omanes only had 2 votes (death can't vote))

Sasaki Kojiro - 2 (Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

woad&fangs - 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Caius - 1 (woad&fangs)
Mithrandir - 1 (Elite Ferret)

Abstain - 1 (Caius)

Not voting: Tiberius, axel, Bananabob, Tratorix, Proletariat.

****

Alive (13)

Tiberius of the Drake
woad&fangs
Omanes
Caius
Gaius Sribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
TinCow
Elite Ferret
LittleGrizzly
axel
Makanyane
Privateerkev
Proletariat

Killed (12)
Seamus Fermanagh
GeneralHankerchief
makaikhaan
Glenn
Crazed Rabbit
Ichigo
Kukrikhan
AntiWarmanCake
pevergreen
Rythmic
Husar
Haudegen

Lynched (5)
shlin28
00jebus
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Sarathos
Northnovas

WoG'ed (4)
Zorg
TwilightBlade
Bananabob
Tratorix

Suicide (4)

Hiji
Beefy187
Yaropolk
Mithrandir

***

It's now night. PM's please. Night willl last until +/- 22.00 (GMT +2)

TinCow

05-19-2008, 21:57

So, is this the first time a person was the deciding vote on his own lynch?

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 21:58

My camels don't die, they just lay down when they get bored of killing enemies. Nothing can kill them, not even a vulcano. When a camel steps into lava, the camel doesn't get burned, the lava gets camelled.

(slightly altered chuck norris quote)

Northnovas

05-19-2008, 21:59

One less town member. :2thumbsup:

Makanyane

05-19-2008, 22:00

So, is this the first time a person was the deciding vote on his own lynch?

It does rather lack the mafioso self preservation instinct....

Mithrandir

05-19-2008, 22:01

2 actually.

Anyway, FOS: Sasaki, Privateerkev, TinCow & Omanes.

*returns to sauna*

Csargo

05-19-2008, 22:10

You mean with the victims bleeding slowly to death? Do you think there is a connection?

I think that would be unlikely, but possible.

:no:

And to Sasaki: Bow down to the list.

axel

05-19-2008, 22:10

Hi

I just came home, and read this topic it seems there s been somme voting but for somme reason i cant find real suspision and most are just voting one and other with little reason, i know i am new in this game and did nt talk much but its hard to lynch or say sommeone is innocent with out a good reason!! me my self got somme thoughts about somme players but all in good time.

I know i am to late to vote and i know he killed him self but i UNVOTE MITHRANDIR reason he wos new like myself and got the honor to redraw (kill himself) and i thought the reason to vote mithrandir wosent a hard reason.
There are more voters voting and following others then just making a good vote from there selfs.
Ps i am innocent i wos eating my pizza:yes:
Cheers mates

Husar

05-19-2008, 22:15

Ok guys, how can we believe the analysis of people who write names like "Haudagen" or "Mayankane"? The first person to write "Huser" will get banned from my upcoming mafia game* and lose 1000 imaginary rubber-friendship points with me, okay?!

I mean, come on, pipikev and Omaris.**

*there is none
**this is a friendly reminder, proper reception of possibly included attempts at humor not guaranteed but hoped for

I also think that Northnovas might have been a good lynch, or not.

Privateerkev

05-19-2008, 22:16

pevergreen

05-19-2008, 23:42

You can still make an attempt.

If Sigurd was mafia with me, he would not cover, he would distance himself. Any type of contact comes under scrutiny.

I dont like how PK is playing, I say lynch him, then take a look at axel and Omanes.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-20-2008, 01:59

Ok, seems like I missed an interesting end to the day.

Unfortunately, due to WoGs, suicides and lynches, we won't know how many killers there are left until the beginning of the next day phase.

I don't know what role Sigurd may or may not have had. It doesn't make sense that it was that of Taketski though. There was the killing of Husar, who (in case noone else noticed, I didn't see it in the thread), seems to have been the prostitute. (Evidence for this, the fact that Rythmic, our best candidate for the detective role, tried valiantly to protect Husar, both in thread and via PM. The Carabineri knew the identity of the prostitute remember).

Looking over thread for more clues. We have at most four killers left by my reckoning, the SK (most likely the MiB), Taketski (or as impossible as it sounds a copycat killer, I'd discount this), and either two Carellis or one Carelli and Manfredo. This is assuming that the 'new' nervous killer was one of the above. With the evidence to hand, I'd hazard a guess that he was, but perhaps hadn't killed before. The fact that before firing he tells the victim (I haven't bothered going back for details): 'I'm an evil Mafioso' (or something along those lines), indicates inexperiance and precludes the appearance of a pro-town killer. I believe that this means that he is one of the Carellis, Gianluca, who seems from the original storyline to be unhappy at killing everyone. Manfredo and Taketski are both hardened professionals, so it is neither of them. I don't believe that another 'Mafioso' would appear at such a late stage in the game, a secret role maybe, but not a 'Mafioso'.

The SK (or MiB), will not stop until all those who 'insulted' his precious sister are dead. However, his lynching should not be our first priority. When his objective is acheived, it seems likely that he will stop killing and revert to a normal 'townie' state, losing his killing abilities but with the same objective of saving the town (please feel free to disagree, I don't know whether this would ordinarily be the case).

Taketski and any Carellis must be what we as a town investigate and try to dig up clues on. Their collective objectives, while distinct from each other culminate in wiping out the townies. There are at most three of these left although my personal opinion is that Oojebus was one of these. I do not believe Sigurd was Taketski (as stated above). Thus we have Taketski and Gianluca to find.

From this evidence I'd suggest, although this contradicts my suggestion from yesterday that Manferdo is still alive and would repeat Tincow's plea from a few days ago.

Your primary objective is to stay alive. To do so, you must evade death at the hands of the Mafia, who must kill you for their victory, as such, your victory conditions and the towns' coincide. Join the town, it makes sense.

Unfortunately, Manfredo has no way of communicating with the town without betraying his identity. More importantly, even if he wants to help the town, there is no way for him to know who is innocent or guilty, other than the same tools available to the town. Observation and analysis. This is another flaw, as even if he (or she) is truly on the towns side, the hitman is still fallible, and can make mistakes. Which we can ill afford at this stage... I'm assume this would come under the banner of a WIFOM, I could argue this round in circles for days, but, I'd advise Manfredo to at least try and help the town.

We know that Oojebus was guilty, which means that thus far we have removed one threat. At the cost of nearly 3/4 of the town! In other words unless we drastically improve our hit ratio, we haven't got a prayer. Sad and defeatist maybe but true.

I trust that anyone with the towns interests at heart will read this, even if it tells us pretty much nothing, and continues to make suggestions and create discussion which could lead us to discover this darkness in our midst.

We stand at the gates of hell ladies and gentlemen. Let us at least go down fighting!

(:laugh4:, pretentious I know, but meh!)

KukriKhan

05-20-2008, 03:46

Lynch the quiet folk. They're your biggest threat.

At the very least, they do you no good. Coming on-board once a day and saying "Oh noes, I don't know who to suspect" is disingenuous. We're all totalWar players here - who doesn't pay attention when signed up for a mission/game? Such a tw player would be laughed off the MP battlefield, and roundly ignored/disinvited to future contests, no?

Makanyane

05-20-2008, 07:23

I don't know what role Sigurd may or may not have had. It doesn't make sense that it was that of Taketski though. There was the killing of Husar, who (in case noone else noticed, I didn't see it in the thread), seems to have been the prostitute. (Evidence for this, the fact that Rythmic, our best candidate for the detective role, tried valiantly to protect Husar, both in thread and via PM. The Carabineri knew the identity of the prostitute remember).

........This is assuming that the 'new' nervous killer was one of the above. With the evidence to hand, I'd hazard a guess that he was, but perhaps hadn't killed before. The fact that before firing he tells the victim (I haven't bothered going back for details): 'I'm an evil Mafioso' (or something along those lines), indicates inexperiance and precludes the appearance of a pro-town killer. I believe that this means that he is one of the Carellis, Gianluca, who seems from the original storyline to be unhappy at killing everyone. Manfredo and Taketski are both hardened professionals, so it is neither of them. I don't believe that another 'Mafioso' would appear at such a late stage in the game, a secret role maybe, but not a 'Mafioso'.

I'd agree generally with your assessment, and it will be interesting (hopefully not depressing though I think it might be) to see what the night brings.

Re: Husar - he seemed to be agreeing with others assessment of him being the prostitute and also dropping hints about Prole...

copying the main post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1923917&postcount=860) here as it seemed to have been overlooked in amongst other arguments.

Right.. so Rytmic was the detective and if Husar was innocent and out all night; that would mean he was the prostitute. Taketsi killed the prostitute and the Mafia killed the detective.
Your intelligence never lets me down honey.

I already said why I argued against you, it was to stay alive, but noone asked why I wanted to stay alive and obviously I'm not allowed to tell, a bit of combination work on the side of the townies would be required but maybe the above quote could help a little(because I also believe Rythmic was the detective).

I'm not sure about Privateerkev being Taketsi, I wonder why you had him as out of bed but most likely innocent and me just out of bed(note that I said earlier that my denial of Sigurd's results was fake, just helping with the combining now).

Also it was not that he made me the Black Knight that was weird about Andres's writeup of my death, it was of a more grammatical nature(hint, hint).
Which also lead me to say that it eradicates the reason I had earlier to say that Prole was likely innocent, let me look for that post...

Well, it could be that she is a female townie just because she's a female female in which case she would not have a male role which would mean that she is not a male killer and thus innocent. One could call that a slip-up on Andres's part but we could stop worrying about her then. It's just a guess but for now it's good enough to lower my suspicion of her.
There it is, well it was a wrong guess, you have to figure out the rest for yourselves. Just a few things I wanted to highlight, maybe someone can make more out of it.

edit: Before I forget it, it's Makanyane and Haudegen, not Makanye and Haudegan...

Re: the new nervous killer - I did wonder if it might have been if that might have been Manfredo, who'd decided to turn mafioso after his hitman mission on Juliette was completed - rather than some other new killer role emerging. He would have been new to the mafia role so that part fits - though first post leads you to think he would have been more confident killer... difference between sniping and killing face to face could account for some nerves.:shrug:

Sigurd

05-20-2008, 08:28

The SK (or MiB), will not stop until all those who 'insulted' his precious sister are dead. However, his lynching should not be our first priority. When his objective is acheived, it seems likely that he will stop killing and revert to a normal 'townie' state, losing his killing abilities but with the same objective of saving the town (please feel free to disagree, I don't know whether this would ordinarily be the case).
I don't think The Man in Black aka Juliette's brother will be a problem anymore.
There are no longer any SK bait as some called them. MiB is dead.
You should lynch privateerkev ASAP. :whip:

I wonder what excuses Sasaki will come up with now to save his new recruit who had his maiden-kill last night.

Husar

05-20-2008, 09:01

TinCow

05-20-2008, 12:00

Concerning idle players, Proletariat did not even vote on the last day, rather unusual for her, did she even post at all? She seems to be very quiet apart from that part where she was under pressure...

Prole has not posted anywhere on the forums since May 16th, and has only posted once (in this thread) since May 14th. That seems like a RL absence to me.

Ferret

05-20-2008, 12:04

Huser has a good point, we all need to spell each others names correctly, that includes you TinCrow.

I think Caius is being suspicous, he posted a lot at the begining but once the ranks thinned he's gone quiet with no reasoning...

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-20-2008, 12:06

Sigurd, what do you mean the MiB is dead? How do you know? Unless you knew his identity...

The only people it could be though is either Mithrandir, Northnovas, BananaBob or Tratorix, those who died today, as he was active last night. We can discount the last two. So by your reckoning either Mithrandir or Northnovas was the MiB, if so, which it was is irrelevant. Atm, I believe you are wrong, but...

...if not, this raises an interesting question of, how did you know this? Unless you were telling the truth about being able to partly investigate. We shall see tonight whether the MiB strikes again.

Why are you so insistent that PK and Sasaki are Mafia, and working together? We've concluded that the only way they could have been working together when you accused them was if they were Carellis, and later evidence would suggest that Oojebus was, hence they couldn't be.

Re Makanyane's theory about the nervous killer, makes more sense than my theory. If so there is no chance of a pro-town killer, our task just got more difficult.

Aagin we need to wait for the morning to come to take stock.

LittleGrizzly

05-20-2008, 12:55

Alive (13)

Tiberius of the Drake
woad&fangs
Omanes
Caius
Gaius Sribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
TinCow
Elite Ferret
LittleGrizzly
axel
Makanyane
Privateerkev
Proletariat

this is the list of those still alive, i think we should listen to KK and lynch the quiet ones.

my list of quiet people is
Proletariat
Axel
Cauis
Omanes
and tiberius ? (not sure here)

ill go back and check whether thier posting elsewhere, we know prole is afk so probably RL reasons rather than scum.

Omanes was rather quiet for a few days then got accussed by a few of lurking, he came back with an excuse for a days absence and has been more involved since returning

sorry gtg ill finish this later...

TinCow

05-20-2008, 13:24

Prole is a bad lynch choice. She was with the prostitute on N3, a night in which there were 2 kills, with a third killer attacking a special role, likely a fourth killer. With 00jebus dead, she couldn't have been a killer unless the N5 nervous person was indeed new. However, she didn't post anywhere at the Org during the entire N5 time period, nor has she posted since the D4 lynch vote. Even if she was a killer, she probably wasn't online to submit a night order. Plus there's the fact that she was described as female in the N3 write-up, when the only female roles are both pro-town and probably dead already. Prole is almost certainly just a townie.

Privateerkev

05-20-2008, 14:35

Re: the new nervous killer - I did wonder if it might have been if that might have been Manfredo, who'd decided to turn mafioso after his hitman mission on Juliette was completed - rather than some other new killer role emerging. He would have been new to the mafia role so that part fits - though first post leads you to think he would have been more confident killer... difference between sniping and killing face to face could account for some nerves.:shrug:

He didn't snipe. Read Ichigo's death. Manfredo walked right up to him and shot him.

I don't think Manfredo and the noob are the same people.

As for Sigurd, while I hope he is right that Juliette's brother is dead, I won't rest easy until I see him absent from the night report.

And those who wish to use Sigurd's analysis should always keep in mind that he is Taketsi and forced the prostitute out in the open so she could be killed.

I wonder what excuses Sasaki will come up with now to save his new recruit who had his maiden-kill last night.

Wow Sigurd, you really need to keep your stories straight. You've been screaming on the thread for days that I'm Taketsi. Now, your saying I'm the noob? So, according to your world, is Taketsi the noob? Or have I become two people?

Have you finally tripped over your own lies? :inquisitive:

Sigurd

05-20-2008, 15:39

Wow Sigurd, you really need to keep your stories straight. You've been screaming on the thread for days that I'm Taketsi. Now, your saying I'm the noob? So, according to your world, is Taketsi the noob? Or have I become two people?

I no longer believe you are Taketsi.

Privateerkev

05-20-2008, 15:44

I no longer believe you are Taketsi.

Finally we agree on something.

I don't believe I'm Taketsi either. I've always said it was you.

Furthermore, why are you so sure that the MiB is dead? Something you found out from the investigation results you never showed us and kept to yourself?

I think you got 6 results, kept 3 to yourself, and then put 3 down real fast and tweaked them to cause confusion.

You knew who the MiB was the whole time and have simply let him continue to kill us. Plus you forced the prostitute out in the open so she could be killed.

You sir are Scummy-Mc. Scummy-Scum. :yes:

Sigurd

05-20-2008, 16:04

Finally we agree on something.
It is always nice to agree.

Furthermore, why are you so sure that the MiB is dead?

I will disregard the last part of your post as it is nothing more than evil slander from the biggest liar I have played with. [OOC: :beam:]

Right... why do I think MiB died?
I spent some time reading the thread and I am amazed at the hints some players give.
The next night will give definite answers to several questions I have. We will see who Taketsi and the Mafia choose to kill.
I am not afraid of making bold statements and I am not afraid of being wrong... I shed that coat when leaving adolescence.
If I am wrong about the MiB I hope you are his next target. :yes:

Privateerkev

05-20-2008, 16:16

It is always nice to agree.

I agree.

I will disregard the last part of your post as it is nothing more than evil slander from the biggest liar I have played with. [OOC: :beam:]

I didn't think you'd want to discuss your extra investigation results that you've kept to yourself. [OOC: ~:grouphug:]

Right... why do I think MiB died? I spent some time reading the thread and I am amazed at the hints some players give.

Funny, didn't you say when you were lynched that you just didn't have time to play this game well?

I am not afraid of making bold statements and I am not afraid of being wrong

I think you found the MiB in your investigations and with-held that information from the town on purpose so he would kill us.

If I am wrong about the MiB I hope you are his next target. :yes:

How nice of you. :clown:

Regardless, this will be a long few hours for me. I won't be convinced of the MiB's death until I see his absence in the night report.

Husar

05-20-2008, 16:32

Prole has not posted anywhere on the forums since May 16th, and has only posted once (in this thread) since May 14th. That seems like a RL absence to me.
She is in the chat however, she might have just lost interest in this game, a possibility I don't want to rule out but she is definitely not absent from her computer.

Sigurd

05-20-2008, 16:34

Funny, didn't you say when you were lynched that you just didn't have time to play this game well?
I did, didn't I...
Spend, took, sacrifice time ; whichever you want.
I try to support the gamehost's effort in the games I have joined.

Sometimes things come up; like earlier this month when an oilplatform needed to stop its production out of schedule, and with the revision-application for registring man hours on maintenance work not quite finished. I couldn't spend time here while working like I normally do.
Other times it only takes a little lynch or an untimedly death to get me going. Have you read 'Grafitti Mafia' yet?

Husar

05-20-2008, 16:36

Plus there's the fact that she was described as female in the N3 write-up, when the only female roles are both pro-town and probably dead already.
Uhm TinCow, I already said that this reason was kinda ruled out judging by my death description, think of the grammatical problem I had with it...

Privateerkev

05-20-2008, 16:44

Have you read 'Grafitti Mafia' yet?

No, I haven't had the time to read up on the old games as much as I'd like. I've read Netherworld all the way through. I've read the "stories" for Capo 2. And I've tried to keep up with the other current games in the gameroom.

Unfortunately I have this place called work. And while they are nice enough to give me internet access, they do wish that I would actually do some work while I am at work. :beam:

I'll try to get to the old ones as time permits though. They are good reads. :yes:

TinCow

05-20-2008, 16:46

Thanks for pointing both of those things out, Husar. I had missed the bit about your death description. I guess this is a problem with creating pre-set genders for various roles.

Andres

05-20-2008, 20:32

Night 6 - Conclusion

TinCow returned from the gathering at the Porta Messina. He decided to go straight to his hotel.

While he was walking down one of the many narrow, steep streets of Taormina, he sensed that something was wrong.

His instincts told him to duck.

He barely avoided getting sliced into two pieces by a sword.

He heard a voice cursing and started to run. The quick footsteps behind him told him that the he was been followed.

All of the sudden, TinCow turned around, a throwing knife in his hand. His attacker dodged the knife and swung his sword at TinCow's neck. Again, his reflexes saved him. While the attacker was trying to refind his balance, TinCow kicked the attacker in the groin.

The attacker fell down and TinCow walked up to his victim, a second knife in his hand.

"You picked the wrong target tonight," he said with a cold-hearted voice.

He stabbed his knife at his attacker who quickly turned away from it, jumped back on his feet and swung the sword again at TinCow, who was completely out of balance. The sword sliced TinCow in two pieces.

In one fluent move, the attacker pierced the sword through TinCow's chest, for good measure. The killer limped away, still suffering from the hard kick in the groin.

***
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Taormina-view.jpg

Omanes was enjoying the splendid view accross the bay of Naxos, looking at Mount Etna.

Sipping from his limoncello he sighed. It was hard to believe that this beautiful place was the scene of such horrendous events.

He promised himself to come back after this nightmare was over, to re-discover what had to be one of the most lovely places in the world.

Sipping again from his limocello, he didn't hear the careful footsteps behind him.

The killer watched Omanes and sneaked up on him. The murdered pointed the silenced gun to the back of Omanes's head and pulled the trigger.

While Omanes was laying in a pool of his own blood, the professional killer shot two more bullets in Omanes' head and one more in his chest.

He calmly left the scene.

***
Makanyane left her hotelroom. She couldn't sleep and she figured a drink in the bar would help.

She entered the elevator. When the elevator reached its' destination, she waited until the doors opened.

A dark figure, weilding a tommy gun was standing right in front of her.

The salvo of the machine gun litterally butchered her to dead.

The attacker limped away.

***

Day 6

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/TeatroGrecoTaormina.jpg

Teatro Greco - Taormina - 7.30 am

The remaining inhabitants of Taormina gathered in the Teatro.

Most of them had a very bad feeling when they realised how many of them already passed away. Tiberius of the Drake was leaning against a wall. He accidentally stumbled and broke his skull, leading to instant dead.

This was interpreted as a very bad omen and the silence soon developed into a heated debate.

They had to vote. Again...

****

Alive (9)

woad&fangs
Caius
Gaius Sribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
Elite Ferret
LittleGrizzly
axel
Privateerkev
Proletariat

Killed (15)
Seamus Fermanagh
GeneralHankerchief
makaikhaan
Glenn
Crazed Rabbit
Ichigo
Kukrikhan
AntiWarmanCake
pevergreen
Rythmic
Husar
Haudegen
Omanes
Makanyane
TinCow

Lynched (5)
shlin28
00jebus
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Sarathos
Northnovas

WoG'ed (5)
Zorg
TwilightBlade
Bananabob
Tratorix
Tiberius of the Drake

Suicide (4)

Hiji
Beefy187
Yaropolk
Mithrandir

***

It's now day. Start voting. Day will last until +/- 22.00 (GMT +2)

Privateerkev

05-20-2008, 20:40

1 kill that looked like a Carelli. 1 that looked like yakuza. And one that is similar to the killing of Ichigo. My guess would be Manfredo. And no sign of Juliette's brother or the "noobish mafioso".

And a nighttime WoG.

Alright, I've been going through Caius's posts. He is very active on the rest of the board but hardly ever posts in here. Especially lately. I think he's lurking for some reason.

vote: Caius

tally:

Caius: 1 (Privateerkev)

TinCow

05-20-2008, 20:45

:bow:

Well played, and good roll of the die. :laugh4:

Privateerkev

05-20-2008, 20:48

Well played, and good roll of the die. :laugh4:

you were the noob? :inquisitive:

Makanyane

05-20-2008, 20:51

She couldn't sleep and she figured a drink in the bar would help. Andres knows me too well I think...

damn! Nine left and 3 attacks doesn't seem like good odds.

I'm interested in why my attacker 'limped away', didn't seem like anything I'd done, TC's attacker was kicked in groin but the style of attack sword versus gun seems too different for it to be two attacks by same person?

Also why TC who everyone had been assuming role-less after his earlier night with the prostitute had the ability to partially defend himself is maybe interesting

anyway goodbye cruel world :angel:

TinCow

05-20-2008, 20:52

you were the noob? :inquisitive:

I never said anything of the sort, but for your sake, I hope you're mafioso. Otherwise, you're DOOOOOMED. :skull:

Privateerkev

05-20-2008, 20:54

I never said anything of the sort, but for your sake, I hope you're mafioso. Otherwise, you're DOOOOOMED. :skull:

I was just confused by your comment on die rolls. If you look at Husar's death, as well as the fight between two men in the hotel room, it seems some people are harder to kill than others. I'm just trying to figure out who you are. :book:

Ferret

05-20-2008, 21:09

Caius stop lurking!

vote:caius

Caius

05-20-2008, 21:25

I can't say a word.

GeneralHankerchief

05-20-2008, 21:26

I can't say a word.

Huh? :inquisitive:

Omanes Alexandrapolites

05-20-2008, 21:38

woad&fangs

05-20-2008, 21:59

woad&fangs
Caius
Gaius Sribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
Elite Ferret- I think the mak/pm thing confirms him innocent
LittleGrizzly
axel- Innocent because of inactivity
Privateerkev
Proletariat

so that leaves as possible suspects...

Woad
Caius
Curio
Sasaki
LittleGrizz
Pkev
Prole

Now, Tincow obviously had some sort of role. If I had to guess I would say that he is the crazy bro but I'm not sure. 1 Mafioso attacked both Tincow and Mak. Actually, upon rereading it looks like the Yakuza killed Tincow and a Carelli killed Mak. However, both people limped. This means that we have killed at least one of the Carellis before tonight. According to Ichigo, that player was OOjebus. It would be a good idea to look for links between 00jebus and other players.

Manfredo appears to have killed Omanes. I consider Sasaki and Prole to be good suspects for the role of Manfredo based on Omane's logic.

Edit: I looked back at the tally on the day 00jebus was lynched. Sasaki, Pkev, and Caius voted to lynch him. Sasaki is smart enough to vote for his partner if he is revealed. Privateerkev, I believe, is to new to the game to think like that. In my eyes this means Pkev is not a Carelli. I also don't think Caius would vote for his partner but I am less sure than with pkev.

Husar

05-20-2008, 22:08

Didn 't I say several pages ago that they are killing all suspects? Wasn't that why I expected to die? Oh well, anyway, maybe it's time to lynch those who were suspected but not killed? That would be Sasaki, Privateerkev and Proletariat IMO.

Of course there are other suspicious people but we'd rather see one of them win than get fooled by one of those three, right? :inquisitive:

Privateerkev

05-20-2008, 22:09

I don't think TC was the MiB. I suspect he was the "noob". If you go back and look at Mith's last posts, it looks like he might have been the MiB. Plus, TC voted for Ichigo which I do not think the real MiB would do.

Makanyane

05-20-2008, 22:17

Elite Ferret- I think the mak/pm thing confirms him innocent

please don't go on that - it only proves he didn't fall for a rather transparent little possible trap, not that he's innocent.

EDIT: re; Prole - she's not visible so its not possible for us to know if she's been on to pm or not. She doesn't seem to have been posting in other areas much recently so absence from this thread doesn't necessarily mean RL absence.

woad&fangs

05-20-2008, 22:23

please don't go on that - it only proves he didn't fall for a rather transparent little possible trap, not that he's innocent.

Transparent? Ow, that hurts my self esteem. I'm pretty sure I would have fallen for it:sweatdrop:

Also, Woad's Carelli suspect list 2.0

Caius
Curio
Sasaki
LittleGrizz
Prole

Sasaki Kojiro

05-20-2008, 22:44

The mafia, who I presume was/were behind my death, is certainly made up of a wily group/individual. By killing me, a supposedly good lynch target, they appear to have eliminated a fair level of discussion. Who's intelligent enough to design and pull a stratagem like this off? My finger points towards Sasaki.

Two things. First: you were clearly killed by manfredo. He appears to be separate from the mafia--no kill from him last night. Second: killing of the lynch targets doesn't eliminate discussion and it's also not a good strategy. The only discussion it removes is votes for the person who got killed, which the mafia would want. So this point is wifom at best.

As I've said before, he spent night one with the prostitute (a night with minimal kills), and then intelligently decided to mask any guilt by confessing. There's nothing wrong with his posts, but there never usually is from a player as cunning as he is.

The write up indicated that I was at home that night. I've never claimed this was proof of my innocence but it's certainly no evidence of guilt.

Also, Woad's Carelli suspect list 2.0

Caius
Curio
Sasaki
LittleGrizz
Prole

Curio was found innocent by detective.

I'm looking at caius and W&F today. Prole I will have to reexamine, given that TinCow was mafia despite the prostitute visit--but I don't think their situations are the same.

woad&fangs

05-20-2008, 23:02

3.0
Caius
Sasaki
LittleGrizz
Prole

To be honest, I'm dissapointed that the town hasn't dragged me into the spotlight more often. I've done well as mafia in large games in the past because people have let me sit back in the dark and play with them like puppets.

Makanyane

05-20-2008, 23:14

I've done well as mafia in large games in the past because people have let me sit back in the dark and play with them like puppets.
yeah but you haven't been doing enough to be 'playing with them like puppets'
or can you point to where you've been directing the discussion?

Second: killing of the lynch targets doesn't eliminate discussion and it's also not a good strategy. The only discussion it removes is votes for the person who got killed, which the mafia would want. So this point is wifom at best. I know its not conventional mafia strategy - but applied consistently it could work to undermine the town - as townies who have no role lose their favoured suspect, run out of ideas and drop out of the discussion to be wogged.... kind of like what's apparently happened here. Also allows clever mafioso to say 'hey I wouldn't be so dumb as to take out best suspect...'

Sasaki Kojiro

05-20-2008, 23:35

I know its not conventional mafia strategy - but applied consistently it could work to undermine the town - as townies who have no role lose their favoured suspect, run out of ideas and drop out of the discussion to be wogged....kind of like what's apparently happened here.

WoG rates are consistent with other games and it doesn't follow that townies would ditch the game based on their suspect being killed--and in any case that's an inferior strategy to letting them live and chase after someone who may be an opponent or a pro town role. My read of the night kills is that the mafia are gunning for other mafia.

Also allows clever mafioso to say 'hey I wouldn't be so dumb as to take out best suspect...'

Second: killing of the lynch targets doesn't eliminate discussion and it's also not a good strategy. The only discussion it removes is votes for the person who got killed, which the mafia would want. So this point is wifom at best.

We aren't going to get anywhere if we base our suspicions on poor or blatantly false logic.

Husar

05-20-2008, 23:58

To be honest, I'm dissapointed that the town hasn't dragged me into the spotlight more often. I've done well as mafia in large games in the past because people have let me sit back in the dark and play with them like puppets.
Oh I noticed you if that makes you happy, but I don't know what to think about you and I'd be fine with you winning, I could say good job with a smile etc. but if Sasaki for example would win as mafia I'd be completely devastated. Obviously that makes me a racist scumbag but that's genetic, I can't help it. :shrug:

I know its not conventional mafia strategy - but applied consistently it could work to undermine the town - as townies who have no role lose their favoured suspect, run out of ideas and drop out of the discussion to be wogged.... kind of like what's apparently happened here. Also allows clever mafioso to say 'hey I wouldn't be so dumb as to take out best suspect...'
:applause:

woad&fangs

05-21-2008, 00:15

One of Grizz'z earlier posts said he was inactive because he was playing PS3. I can't see a mafioso doing that.

I'm not quite sure what to make of the early exchange between PK and Prole. For now I think that she is innocent but I have no real proof to go off of.

Caius has been lurking because he lost track of what was going on. Whether that makes him a mafioso or not is impossible to tell.

Vote: Sasaki
I know that without solid proof you are virtually incapable of being caught. At the VERY least we have 2 killers with 9 players left. Curio is innocent because he was investigated. I am innocent. Axel is innocent. That is a 2/6 chance that you are mafia. Along with my doubts about other peoples guilt voting for you seems like the obvious action for me.

Privateerkev

05-21-2008, 01:17

W&F asked me to search for Prole's and LG's posts because his function is broken.

Here is Prole's:

First there were 8 posts in a relatively short amount of time.

Hrm. An unusually interesting first round. I don't understand the point of blocking actions that don't happen. In basketball you can't block a shot when no one shoots, so it'll be interesting to see what the point of this game mechanic is. Or if Sasaki just made it up for some reason.

I didn't imply that, I said that. It was a comment about the game rules, don't read too much into it. I get some veteran status because I've played alot, not because I'm a brilliant analyzer or liar. Post your role PM, Priva. I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

Just because. Some people are pretending this first round of votes is more significant than it is. But it's the same crap shoot all first rounds are

I'm a townie and you said that role pm is public knowledge. Why should I bother posting it?

I haven't seen where it's been posted anyway, so I'm not even sure what you meant by public knowledge.

Challenged me? You said posting the role pm was pointless since it was public knowledge. I didn't bother posting it then, and you think that's scummy?

Sure. I'm a townie. Investigate away, detective.

/shakes on it

I'm still not sure who to vote for, but I gotta run to work soon. Here goes a random vote

Vote: Caius

What kinda crummy deal is this with you still having the lynching vote on me? :P

Unvote: Caius Vote: Privateerkev

Then 4 days of absence until the prostitute slept with her:

Well, I had a fantastic night of fetishism with the prostitute last night. I need to reread the last day and process the most recent revelations before I can add anything of real value.

Then 2 posts about Sigurd:

This just smacks of a classic Sigurd mafia maneuver (heretofore referred to as CSMM). He was in the chat yesterday for a bit, so I think he had time to post here. Just a line or two ('hey, been busy with work and family, will try and catch up later') could've brought down his vote tally to a tie with Omanes.

Kinda of an odd lack of survival instinct, for Sigurd tho... I'm puzzled.

Not much at stake? :/

According to you, our detective just died.

Then nothing for 2 days until this:

Husar seems really close to his usual indignant townie self, even with his weak answer. Sigurd can't be trusted, no way can we buy this 'it's faster to type up stuff and hit c&p.'

Neither of the Haudegan or Little Grizzly lynches seem that solid, so I'll flip a coin... and Vote: Haudegan. Would be nice to hear more out of axel

And nothing since.

Privateerkev

05-21-2008, 01:26

Now for LG:

First there were 3 posts in the beginning of the game:

Im here, suspecting everyone and not nitpicking....

I really can't do this random voting thing... ill have to go for Vote Sasaki

Sasaki
TinCow
GH
CR
Khaan
W&F
Omanes
Pever
The stranger
Rytmic

Is this list based on experience at playing mafia only ? or something more ?

I have an inherent distrust of sasaki probably just from the only mafia game i have played.

So if we were expecting 3 kills and only 1 happened at least 1 'mafia' didn't hand any orders in (one character can kill or investigate) so should we be looking suspicously at inactivity ?

Then nothing for 5 days until this:

Sorry for inactivity my friend has left his playstation 3 down my house and i struggle to get off the thing... which is why ive been lurking a few days, back on best townie behaviour

can someone explain what happened last night... i thought the prostitute was with Ichigo but then prole revealed she was with her ?

The paino wire and the fibre wire, seem a bit too close to be different calling cards... how much can we trust ichigo's reveal ? tbh i trusted on first sight but have very slight suspicions.

Proles inactivity... possibly a sign of scummyness ? was possibly blocked last night by the prostitute, looked like andres writing style to me (but someone else is probably better at judging it) so was there a killer off the radar last night ? apart from the one we possibly killed (00) ?

I don't think PK should be voted just because he has twice as many posts as anyone else, it could be a cover trying to seem like a helpful townie but if it is im fooled...

Mith whats the hunch ? the inactivity could just be down to being to busy not a crime in itself...

i really don't know who to vote for... ill Vote Abstain for the moment, the only other votes i could have made would be omanes because of others reasoning or prole for inactivity (which is a crime im guilty off) so hopefully theres something a bit more to work with in a few hours

Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?

this is what confused me i thought the prostitute was with ichigo but she was with prole... unless all 3 of them... ok probably not....

The next one is a long answer to specific quotes so I'll just add the link:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1919512&postcount=584

That whole rumored part made me wonder but further down in andres report

Unfortunately, the women were in one of the more expensive rooms of the hotel...

that seems pretty definite

And then it was basically one post a day on average:

axel's continued presence in the game makes no sense unless he has a role.

Thats good enough for me

Vote Axel

Well i think i explained my few days of absence and since then i have returned and tryed to be helpful, i generally try not to post unless i have got something to say and even when i do post im just making observations and collecting facts, im not great at reading people so i haven't got a whole lot i could contribute anyway.

Check out my contributions in Capo II fairly similar in style and frequency excluding the few days i missed here because of my friends PS3. Check out the backroom during that absence from here i think i only posted once there, which is under my usual posting rate.

I mean i don't see how my agreeing with PK's reasoning is scummy, it seems sensible enough to me, how can a player whose done less than those wog'd survive ? by sending pm's is the answer

How come im getting voted for lurking when theres far worse lurkers around ? like axel for one example, ive obviously been doing enough not to get wog'd and those few days are the only gap.

Im not sure what Ichigo is on about, he cannot have investigated me and think im scum, if he didn't get round to investigating me then i don't understand what his 'hint' is all about as he has nothing more than anyone else to base it on and if he did investigate me then he must be scum, but were all pretty sure he isn't ?

ill post more later but im in the middle of an essay a sec

check my posting record well i wasn't posting in here!! (don't forget)

Edit: if you take out the gap where i was away i have made every vote and practically posted each day and night phase

this is the sum total of ichigo's hint.... he thought me and northnovas had roles and since he now knows 2 roles its obvious

what im assuming he's implying by its obvious is that if me or northnovas had a role it has to be a bad one seen as he knows who has the good roles, but he only thought i had a role, so its only obvious that im scum if ichigo's first thought was right, by the sounds of whats been going on here i don't think ichigo got the chance to investigate me because he wouldn't be dropping me in it like this or he would be hinting at my innocence.

The suspicions about me didn't appear until after a day or 2 of inactivity and ichigo dropping my name in, i went through the reasons a page or 2 back.

im at a bit of a loose end of who to vote but i think we should leave those manfredo will/could kill until we know he's dead and off the scene

Serial killer bait:
Sasaki
Tincow
PK

so were left with
Innocent:
Proletariat
Curio
axel
Elite Ferret
LittleGrizzly

and

possible mafia:
Northnovas
W&F
Makanye
Omanes
Mithrandir
Caius

something about sasakis innocent list and posible mafia list rings true for me so i am going to vote woad & fangs

Alive (13)

Tiberius of the Drake
woad&fangs
Omanes
Caius
Gaius Sribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
TinCow
Elite Ferret
LittleGrizzly
axel
Makanyane
Privateerkev
Proletariat

this is the list of those still alive, i think we should listen to KK and lynch the quiet ones.

my list of quiet people is
Proletariat
Axel
Cauis
Omanes
and tiberius ? (not sure here)

ill go back and check whether thier posting elsewhere, we know prole is afk so probably RL reasons rather than scum.

Omanes was rather quiet for a few days then got accussed by a few of lurking, he came back with an excuse for a days absence and has been more involved since returning

sorry gtg ill finish this later...

Tiberius of the Drake

05-21-2008, 02:00

unfortunately, the chaos of real life, and the cyber world has kept me from the computer. and at the moment I dont have any idea what pahse it is laet alone who is alive or dead. Can some one post a live/dead count (am I dead?) and if it is day pahase a vote count.

If it is infact day phase,

Vote: Abstain

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-21-2008, 02:08

OK, its time for sme analysis...

To begin the write-up.

TinCow returned from the gathering at the Porta Messina. He decided to go straight to his hotel.

While he was walking down one of the many narrow, steep streets of Taormina, he sensed that something was wrong.

His instincts told him to duck.

He barely avoided getting sliced into two pieces by a sword.

He heard a voice cursing and started to run. The quick footsteps behind him told him that the he was been followed.

All of the sudden, TinCow turned around, a throwing knife in his hand. His attacker dodged the knife and swung his sword at TinCow's neck. Again, his reflexes saved him. While the attacker was trying to refind his balance, TinCow kicked the attacker in the groin.

The attacker fell down and TinCow walked up to his victim, a second knife in his hand.

"You picked the wrong target tonight," he said with a cold-hearted voice.

He stabbed his knife at his attacker who quickly turned away from it, jumped back on his feet and swung the sword again at TinCow, who was completely out of balance. The sword sliced TinCow in two pieces.

In one fluent move, the attacker pierced the sword through TinCow's chest, for good measure. The killer limped away, still suffering from the hard kick in the groin.

Tincow was killed by a sword. This is almost certainly the Yakusa. However the method in which Tincow fights back means there is a fairly high likelihood that he had a role (imo).

However which role was it? The new nervous killer? The MiB? A Carelli? Or something else?

The nervous guy doesn't fit, due to the confidence that is obvious from the write-up.
The MiB wouldn't have voted for Ichigo, Tincow did. This isn't plausible.
A Carelli makes more sense, but the order of the kills doesn't allow for it. Andres subtlely gives us an order in that Tincow is killed en route to his hotel, Omanes is killed whilst at the hotel and Makanyane is killed in the middle of the night, because she can't sleep.

The only other possibility I can think of is that the MiB wasn't the brother, but there is contradictary evidence for that. In other words I'm stumped atm. On we go...

Omanes was enjoying the splendid view accross the bay of Naxos, looking at Mount Etna.

Sipping from his limoncello he sighed. It was hard to believe that this beautiful place was the scene of such horrendous events.

He promised himself to come back after this nightmare was over, to re-discover what had to be one of the most lovely places in the world.

Sipping again from his limocello, he didn't hear the careful footsteps behind him.

The killer watched Omanes and sneaked up on him. The murdered pointed the silenced gun to the back of Omanes's head and pulled the trigger.

While Omanes was laying in a pool of his own blood, the professional killer shot two more bullets in Omanes' head and one more in his chest.

He calmly left the scene.

Professional killer=Manfredo imo. The method of execution is bold and risky, seemingly in his hotel room, or in a bar somewhere, Omanes has met his end.
If this is the case (and this is unlikely, but we are in need of optimism here...) it follows that Manfredo has assassinated a prime suspect. Remember that there was a large amount of suspicion floating over Omanes. Perhaps (stretching the realms of possibility to the limit...) Manfredo has gone pro-town and is attempting to find and eliminate Mafia. Due to the ordering of the kills it is possible that Omanes was Taketski, however from the write-up this now seems unlikely.

Makanyane left her hotelroom. She couldn't sleep and she figured a drink in the bar would help.

She entered the elevator. When the elevator reached its' destination, she waited until the doors opened.

A dark figure, weilding a tommy gun was standing right in front of her.

The salvo of the machine gun litterally butchered her to dead.

The attacker limped away.

The method of assassination, a tommy gun, is crude, but effective. As I'd expect from a Carelli mafioso. For the reasons stated above I don't believe this killer was Manfredo or Taketski. There is the possibility that was was the new, nervous killer, unable to go through with another last-ditch conversation.

The fact that there were only three kills is encouraging, but our situation is still dire.

The lack of an MiB killing means that Sigurd may have access to some correct information. However he could have merely guessed. Its down to him to persuade us otherwise.

woad&fangs
Caius
Gaius Scribonius Curio (please spell my name right... or just type Curio)
Sasaki Kojiro
Elite Ferret
LittleGrizzly
axel
Privateerkev
Proletariat

The list of all those left alive...

Curio- found innocent by detective (so I claim...), but seriously I'm innocent.

Axel- His lack of activity pretty much rules him out, unless he is ridiculously clever and is fooling us all, a candidate for the nervous killer, as there was a kill two nights ago, but none last night (when he wasn't active).

Elite Ferret- Seems to have been squeaky clean since taking control of TS's (at the time suspicious) role. Has RL issues and thus has been fairly quiet. I'd say innocent, but bears watching.

Prole- has been fairly inactive of late and indeed has been laying fairly low since the opening exchanges with PK. Could be down to RL issues but it still is verging on the suspicious.

Little Grizzly- Was under a real threat of lynching at one point (on what is now viewed as fairly weak evidence). His contributions have picked up of late and appears to be innocent.

PrivateerKev-Easily the most verbose among us, Kev's contributions have diminished as we approach the end-game. Has been the target of a concerted attack by Sigurd, but there is no evidence against him aside from Sigurd's dubious reveal. My gut feeling is innocent.

Woad&Fangs- Has been working quietly to save the town and is now surprised that he hasn't been targeted. There's nothing in his posts to suggest he's mafia, but he is correct insaying that he hasn't been under intense scrunity, maybe this should change today? Atm, I'm leaning towards innocent, but there's no evidence for (or against) him that I can see...

Sasaki Kojiro- Billed as the master of deception, despite the enmity (for want of a better word) that Sasaki has accrued in the past, that he is still alive is testament to his skill. There is some evidence to suggest his innocence, but as others have said he is still dangerous and still possibe Mafia. I don't believe he is...

(... but that could be my naivety talking).

Caius- One word and one word only can describe him... lurker. Perhaps honestly bewildered at the pace and intensity of the game, he has said and done nothing to help the town. In fact he has barely even voted! Unlucky innocent with no time to think or cunning mafioso? You decide, for myself...

FOS: Caius

...the only lurker left alive. :yes:

Privateerkev

05-21-2008, 02:29

PrivateerKev-Easily the most verbose among us, Kev's contributions have diminished as we approach the end-game. Has been the target of a concerted attack by Sigurd, but there is no evidence against him aside from Sigurd's dubious reveal. My gut feeling is innocent.

It's true that I've quieted down a little. I've gotten more confused as the game has gone on. That and I started to get tired of arguing with a ghost who has nothing to lose.

I like your analysis but there is one thing missing. The killer who got Mak was limping. And TC kicked his killer between the legs. This suggests that it was the same person. So we may have one person who can do two kills.

At least this finally removes the last shreds of doubt that Sigurd was in fact Taketsi. He has been hiding behind the "but there is a yakuza still around" excuse long enough. That excuse is now useless in light of this new information.

As for TC being Carelli, it doesn't make sense. He was blocked on a night where 4 attacks happened. I find it more likely that he was the noob.

I think our best chance is in hoping that Manfredo is indeed on our side. I can only see two kill reports that look like him. One was Ichigo. And one was Omanes. If Manfredo is with us, then there is just one killer.

I still think Caius is the best lynch candidate. Look at his post record. He is very active all over the board. And he is in other games in the gameroom. Yet he hardly posts in this thread.

tally:

Caius: 2 (Privateerkev, Elite Ferret)

Sasaki: 1 (woad&fangs)

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-21-2008, 02:38

I like your analysis...

Thank you. :bow:

...but there is one thing missing. The killer who got Mak was limping. And TC kicked his killer between the legs. This suggests that it was the same person. So we may have one person who can do two kills.

I did indeed miss that, but it isn't necessarily true. I'm going to go back and check the other write-ups to see if there is another reason for this.

At least this finally removes the last shreds of doubt that Sigurd was in fact Taketsi.

I don't believe that. It makes a lot more sense that he had a secret role, or that he's merely a misguided townie, trying to play God! (OOC::laugh4:)

As for TC being Carelli, it doesn't make sense. He was blocked on a night where 4 attacks happened. I find it more likely that he was the noob.

I did say that it was unlikely, and that I'm stumped.

I think our best chance is in hoping that Manfredo is indeed on our side. I can only see two kill reports that look like him. One was Ichigo. And one was Omanes. If Manfredo is with us, then there is just one killer.

Will have to check this, will be back later.

tally:

Caius: 2 (Privateerkev, Elite Ferret)

Sasaki: 1 (woad&fangs)

Proletariat

05-21-2008, 03:12

I'm obviously innocent, look at the night I was visited by the prostitute and how many kills there were. It's likely the mafia is leaving me alive in order to make it appear I wasn't innocent after all, making me an easier lynch when there's only a few players left.

They're either cunning or I'm off my rocker, but I can't see any other reason why the mafia has left me alive. Maybe they thought I was ignoring the thread and would get WoGed.

Privateerkev

05-21-2008, 03:20

I'm obviously innocent, look at the night I was visited by the prostitute and how many kills there were. It's likely the mafia is leaving me alive in order to make it appear I wasn't innocent after all, making me an easier lynch when there's only a few players left.

TC was visited by the prostitute when there were 4 attacks/kills. Now we suspect he had a role since he was particularly hard to kill and it seems the "noobish mafioso" is dead.

Being visited by the prostitute is not an automatic proof of innocence. :no:

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-21-2008, 03:38

Results of my search are in.

Prior to tonight there was no mention of a limping killer, PK's suggestion that Taketski has multiple kills is a possiblity.

Also, the professional killer (Manfredo), shows up only two or three times.

Night one: I can't say for certain if Seamus was killed by Manfredo, but it is a possibility.

Night four: Ichigo aka Juliette is killed, by Manfredo, objective 1 is acheived for him.

Night six: Omanes, a prime suspect who escaped lynching due to a lucky combination of events is executed by a 'professional' killer, who we (or at least I) assume is Manfredo.

Again PK's assumption seems to be accurate.

Privateerkev

05-21-2008, 03:45

Prior to tonight there was no mention of a limping killer, PK's suggestion that Taketski has multiple kills is a possiblity.

Just so Sigurd doesn't crow on and on, I want to make clear that I never said Taketsi had the ability to do multiple kills. I believe Sigurd is Taketsi. Now I am pretty much convinced of it. Sigurd had investigative powers. And the remaining mafia person was able to make two kills. One as yakuza and one as Carelli. It seems a Carelli has been hiding one kill by making it appear as yakuza. That has led people to believe Taketsi is alive. Now it is fairly obvious that Taketsi is dead and it was Sigurd. One could argue that the opposite is true. That Sigurd was Carelli and the remaining mafia is Taketsi. But Sigard has staked a lot on claiming investigative powers and Carellis don't have those.

Also, the professional killer (Manfredo), shows up only two or three times.

Night one: I can't say for certain if Seamus was killed by Manfredo, but it is a possibility.

Night four: Ichigo aka Juliette is killed, by Manfredo, objective 1 is acheived for him.

Night six: Omanes, a prime suspect who escaped lynching due to a ucy combination of events is executed by a 'professional' killer, who we (or at least I) assume is Manfredo.

Again PK's assumption seems to be accurate.

I don't see night 1 being done by Manfredo. Ichigo and Omanes seem very similar. Seamus seems like he was done by a Carelli.

Mithrandir

05-21-2008, 06:49

Probably just 2 killers left, hence the limping.

Sasaki and littlegrizz

Andres

05-21-2008, 09:51

(am I dead?).

Yes. WoG at the beginning of this day phase. Sorry.

Sigurd

05-21-2008, 10:00

Now it is fairly obvious that Taketsi is dead and it was Sigurd. One could argue that the opposite is true. That Sigurd was Carelli and the remaining mafia is Taketsi. But Sigard has staked a lot on claiming investigative powers and Carellis don't have those.

I don't see night 1 being done by Manfredo. Ichigo and Omanes seem very similar. Seamus seems like he was done by a Carelli.

Let’s hypothise shall we?

If I was Taketsi and I only investigated the few nights I were alive, I should have 6 investigations. If I found the prostitute on the first night, and innocent players the following night and then the last night found you out of bed but innocent, why would I not use it?

As Taketsi I would have wanted the prostitute dead wouldn’t I. But then someone just had to lynch me because I was absent.

I then retaliate against the prostitute making her (him) seem scummy. Wait… How do I know?.. Think fast .. Oh, let’s do a CSMM (thanks Prole). Yeah I will be some poor thief sneaking into people’s rooms, yeah that’ll fool them. Ah damn… a CSMM requires planning and a prepared role pm.. Crap.. nvm. Let’s just use my investigations, one from each night to make sure I can’t be caught in lies.

If I was Taketsi but now dead, my goal would still be to get rid of the mafia. The prostitute should live to hinder the mafia’s work. If I were Taketsi, why would I lie about any of my investigations, I would make sure they were all correct to establish some trust. Then this n00b player is suddenly getting really smart and guesses everything right, down to the recruitment of additional mafia. Where in the hell did he get that information if not he was himself recruited into the Carellies? He was townie one minute than a certified lying bastard the next. Ah, yes the Carelli got themselves a recruit. I must take him down to prove my pro-town alignment.

Am I getting close?

Now let’s see, if this n00b is Carelli, who is protecting him? Why haven’t Sasaki jumped on this guy for knowing more than he should? Ah yes, they must be communicating behind the scenes as mafia and recruit. In fact, this n00b is learning from Netherworld. Why haven’t TinCow jumped all over this new guy? He is probably getting comfy with many of the players behind the scenes just as TinCow did, completely fooling 3 of the elders (veteran is no longer sufficient) players.

Now how is that for a hypothesis?
Either way my friends it still leaves Sasaki and Privateerkev looking guilty as hell.
Why not make it a tie between them and let fate decide.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

05-21-2008, 10:19

Husar

05-21-2008, 12:16

But then someone just had to lynch me because I was absent.
That looks like a remark concerning me and thus I will yet again say that I was surprised by how quickly you got lynched and how many jumped onto the bandwagon, I made up much stronger cases before and noone jumped on them. :shrug:
Still, at the time it looked like a good idea but now I'm not sure anymore, although it still might have been a good idea.

Either way my friends it still leaves Sasaki and Privateerkev looking guilty as hell.
While I would say hell itself, not being conscious, is not guilty of anything, that assessment seems correct to me, it's very weird that these two are still alive but noone else seems to care.

Why not make it a tie between them and let fate decide.
That is a fine idea.

Privateerkev

05-21-2008, 14:08

Let’s hypothise shall we?

If I was Taketsi and I only investigated the few nights I were alive, I should have 6 investigations. If I found the prostitute on the first night, and innocent players the following night and then the last night found you out of bed but innocent, why would I not use it?

But since you have 6, you can mix and match to get 3. Perhaps you showed people 2 from day 1 and then 1 from day 2. Then you "tweaked" them to get the results you wanted.

I then retaliate against the prostitute making her (him) seem scummy. Wait… How do I know?.. Think fast .. Oh, let’s do a CSMM (thanks Prole). Yeah I will be some poor thief sneaking into people’s rooms, yeah that’ll fool them. Ah damn… a CSMM requires planning and a prepared role pm.. Crap.. nvm. Let’s just use my investigations, one from each night to make sure I can’t be caught in lies.

At least now your admitting you were lying about having some secret watcher role.

If I was Taketsi but now dead, my goal would still be to get rid of the mafia. The prostitute should live to hinder the mafia’s work. If I were Taketsi, why would I lie about any of my investigations, I would make sure they were all correct to establish some trust.

Throwing 3 quick sentences down was a bad way of establishing trust. You could have posted PM's. Though you ran the danger of having the detective come out and prove your Taketsi. Since we would know he is the detective, it would prove your mafia. You couldn't have that so you made the situation as muddy as possible while still trying to effect the game.

Then this n00b player is suddenly getting really smart and guesses everything right, down to the recruitment of additional mafia. Where in the hell did he get that information if not he was himself recruited into the Carellies? He was townie one minute than a certified lying bastard the next. Ah, yes the Carelli got themselves a recruit. I must take him down to prove my pro-town alignment.

Your giving me far too much credit. I pulled the recruiting idea out of my butt. I was reading Netherworld and Capo 2. I couldn't figure out how you could be Taketsi, yet still have a yakuza running around. But now I figured out how, and it has nothing to do with recruiting. A Carelli has been fooling all of us.

Now let’s see, if this n00b is Carelli, who is protecting him? Why haven’t Sasaki jumped on this guy for knowing more than he should? Ah yes, they must be communicating behind the scenes as mafia and recruit. In fact, this n00b is learning from Netherworld. Why haven’t TinCow jumped all over this new guy? He is probably getting comfy with many of the players behind the scenes just as TinCow did, completely fooling 3 of the elders (veteran is no longer sufficient) players.

Your leaving out a really important development. TC is pretty much confirmed as the mafia "noob". So, that throws your whole theory out of whack. All that is left it one mafia and Manfredo. And it doesn't look like Manfredo is working for the mafia. Therefore, 2 players can't be working together as mafia.

tally:

Caius: 3 (Privateerkev, Elite Ferret, Curio)

Sasaki: 1 (woad&fangs)

TinCow

05-21-2008, 14:16

All that is left it one mafia and Manfredo. And it doesn't look like Manfredo is working for the mafia. Therefore, 2 players can't be working together as mafia.

Three kills, but only two killers? Despite the kick in the groin during my death and the 'limp' in one of the kills, those two kills had very different styles. It does not make sense that they were made by the same person. You have three killers still operating. Also, it is a mistake to assume that Manfredo is pro-town. With so few players left, anyone who is killing without knowing for certain that their target is mafia is damaging the town. Manfredo does not get sufficient investigative results to let him determine who is mafia and who is town. Thus, Manfredo is hurting the town by continuing to kill. He may be pro-mafia or a Serial Killer. It is very unwise to assume that he is on the town's side.

Sigurd

05-21-2008, 14:20

So in other words, what you're saying is that PK was right the whole time? And it follows that you have indeed been lying about your role the whole time. Which in turn means you have been lying the whole time!

Hence you are not to be trusted...

Vote:Caius

(...but its a very nice theory)

You were very quick to draw a conclusion, which makes me suspect you were only playing along. So how long have you been pm'ing with Sasaki and PK?

And several of you claim to have seen some detective results, yet the detecitve have not revealed any publically. Which mean for them to be real, rules were broken. And those results would only be valid if they happened to coincede with the investigatee performing a kill.

You did well mafia, to quell the voices of those who could bring you down.
I can't see the remaining townies being able to lynch Sasaki or PK.

Where are the other dead townies? GH, CR, Seamus, Kukri, Ichigo, Glenn and Rythmic.
You can't mean to leave the rest out to dry, do you. If the dead were not to influence this game, then it would have been dead stay dead and do not talk.

Privateerkev

05-21-2008, 14:33

Three kills, but only two killers? Despite the kick in the groin during my death and the 'limp' in one of the kills, those two kills had very different styles. It does not make sense that they were made by the same person. You have three killers still operating.

Look at your death report and Mak's death report.

In one fluent move, the attacker pierced the sword through TinCow's chest, for good measure. The killer limped away, still suffering from the hard kick in the groin.

The salvo of the machine gun litterally butchered her to dead.

The attacker limped away.

So, it seems the man you hurt then attacked Mak. Therefore, we have one killer.

Also, it is a mistake to assume that Manfredo is pro-town. With so few players left, anyone who is killing without knowing for certain that their target is mafia is damaging the town. Manfredo does not get sufficient investigative results to let him determine who is mafia and who is town. Thus, Manfredo is hurting the town by continuing to kill. He may be pro-mafia or a Serial Killer. It is very unwise to assume that he is on the town's side.

Funny, just a couple days ago you publicly pleaded for Manfredo to join the town. I guess joining the Mafia changed your goals.

It would be very unwise for the town to trust anything TC says.

And several of you claim to have seen some detective results, yet the detecitve have not revealed any publically. Which mean for them to be real, rules were broken. And those results would only be valid if they happened to coincede with the investigatee performing a kill.

Andres was notified about the possible "private reveals". Since no WoG's happened to Rythmic, it seems everything was legal. Unless Rythmic's silence since his death was part of his punishment. Either way, Andres has been kept in the loop the whole time. Your more than welcome to bring this up with him if you wish.

tally:

Caius: 3 (Privateerkev, Elite Ferret, Curio)

Sasaki: 1 (woad&fangs)