View Full Version : LotR - OOC Thread and Chatroom
The armies aren't that bad. Most players with a decent half stack should be able to destroy them. These are not triple silver armies nor are they meant to be. They're simply a roadbump in expansionism that's designed to slow you guys down a bit and force you to bulk up your garrisons a bit more. I expect all of the threatened cities to be under Byzantine control by the end of this coming term. If you don't mind swallowing your pride and temporarily retreating, then it won't be anything more than a short-term problem.
Besides, this is nothing in comparison to what I really can do. Remember, now I can personally control all enemy movements. The insanity has not yet begun. :laugh4:
OverKnight
07-01-2008, 13:50
Hmmm, I'm flashing back to the good old days in Outremer: Stick and move, bleed 'em and run and find the nearest mountain or river crossing and make them come to you. I thought I'd left my guerilla warfare tactics behind in the last game.
Ironically when I clicked on the stack near Bucharest, it said "Come and face the might of the Reich" and we're now the perfidious Greeks.
For the record, the bulk of the western armies are Religious Fanatics, Sergeant Spearmen, and Peasant Archers. The bulk of the eastern armies are Ghazis, Mutatawwi's, and Desert Archers. None of those units have any upgrades. Each army will also get a single upgraded general's bodyguard. All other units (most of which were in the armies when I teleported them) will be disbanded when I take control of the rebels. I will probably replace them with a couple units of Mounted Sergeants in the west and some low-level mounted missile unit in the east. Again, unupgraded. Not exactly doom stacks.
Does you controlling the rebels mean that we wont be able to control any defensive battles? Because you would be controlling them as rebels...
No, not at all. I will not be initiating any attacks with the rebels and I actually only plan on 'controlling' them for one turn. I will take one turn to finish tweaking the armies and then move them to besiege the nearby settlements. I will then queue up a long list of siege equipment for them and end the turn. After that I will disable control over the rebel faction and do not plan on taking control of them again. When and if they finally assault the settlements, it will be intiated by the AI, not me, so it will be a proper defensive battle for you to fight. I promise that nothing I do will force an autoresolve on a player, though I reserve the right to personally obliterate Captain-led armies in future Events by commanding the enemy attack myself.
Ituralde
07-01-2008, 14:54
I have to say I also find the stacks to be a bit drastic. Not to mention the fact that you reserve the right to alter their numbers next turn. How shall I decide whether I should pick a fight when I don't know what I'll be up against?
Guess I'll retreat then. Oh well, gives me a reason to take the Royal Army on a little detour! :evilgrin:
Although I liked the story the actual implementation leaves an artificial aftertaste for me. I'd prefer in the future for those events to come on a little bit more naturally. Then again I wasn't around during the period of triple silver armies in KotR so maybe my definition of challenge is a bit behind the rest. I still try to get back into the things and how battles work in the mod. Well looks like I'll be up on a steep learning curve.
Just a disclaimer that no hard feelings are involved, but I needed to do some rambling and muttering, feel better already! :beam:
Your comments indicate that I have succeeded in my attempts. The armies are intended to force you to retreat, but to be easily destroyed with a full stack. As unupgraded rebels, they will quickly rout and won't pose much of a challenge. My objective was to force you to assemble stronger armies to confront them. If they could all be instantly destroyed, it wouldn't be much of an event, would it? Based on what's already available, I think armies can be quickly assembled to deal with them in both the west and east. The only problem will be Zagreb and Sinop, which are a bit isolated from the likely assembly area for the larger armies. Barring truly heroic defenses of those cities, they will likely have to be temporarily abandoned, which is, again, the entire point of the Event.
As for feeling artificial, I think we passed that point after we started taking large cities with only generals bodyguard units.
_Tristan_
07-01-2008, 15:05
So it is back to Strator for poor Methodios...
Can't get a hold on any territory...
Can't even win an election, that guy...
What a loser...
Ituralde
07-01-2008, 15:10
As for feeling artificial, I think we passed that point after we started taking large cities with only generals bodyguard units.
A thing I would never do...
And before somebody feels stepped on his toes, I'm fine with the event and I'm also fine with seeing other playstyles through these games. It's one of the interesting things to see how other people play these games, interact with them, and so on! :2thumbsup:
BananaBob
07-01-2008, 15:15
I'm kind of upset that their is now a roadblock to expansionism.When many of us great deal of us still don't have land and are are essentially out of the game except for reading about others exploits.
:thumbsdown:
Id prefer if we were all involved before something like this happened
_Tristan_
07-01-2008, 15:18
A thing I would never do...
I would hav said the same but the rules of the game require much of us to have control of any army (which are not not many in any case...) so it is either twiddling our collective thumbs or move our bodyguards' basement and do something of our lives... :yes:
I see it as a kind of Russian roulette... Everything could happen when you lead a charge with your bodyguard... :charge: or :skull:
This is more negativity than I expected, so I've put up a poll (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=105331) to assess the general feelings. I will go with whatever course is deemed proper.
Privateerkev
07-01-2008, 15:20
If you see the way people fight battles in these games, you'll see that it is only a tiny roadblock. :laugh4:
I think there should be consequences to expanding too fast. We'll get bored if we accidently take over the whole map. And now TC is in the perfect position to put roadblocks in our way. :yes:
Personally, I'm excited about all of this. :2thumbsup:
No, not at all. I will not be initiating any attacks with the rebels and I actually only plan on 'controlling' them for one turn. I will take one turn to finish tweaking the armies and then move them to besiege the nearby settlements. I will then queue up a long list of siege equipment for them and end the turn. After that I will disable control over the rebel faction and do not plan on taking control of them again. When and if they finally assault the settlements, it will be intiated by the AI, not me, so it will be a proper defensive battle for you to fight. I promise that nothing I do will force an autoresolve on a player, though I reserve the right to personally obliterate Captain-led armies in future Events by commanding the enemy attack myself.
Okay, this sounds good, I'll check out the army size but I'm gonna vote yes anyway, I'd rather have interesting expansion than an unstoppable blitz.
Privateerkev
07-01-2008, 15:52
It might help to make clear that the event2 poll is OOC. I don't want Bananabob, or anyone else thinking they have to vote how I do.
IC however I will DEMAND OBEDIANCE! Bow you peasants!!! BOW!!!!!! Bow and scrape! Lick my boots and use your voting cards to pick the gravel out from between the treads!
:clown:
For those people worried about expansion, Event 3 is already in the planning stage and it will almost certainly actively encourage expansion.
_Tristan_
07-01-2008, 16:15
Far from my mind from calling a stop to Event #2, though I feel responsible for the whole ****load coming our way... :oops:
Though I could deal with Randolph and a half stack... A full stack is truly a nightmarish sight...
Privateerkev
07-01-2008, 16:19
wait a minute...
We're in danger of losing Hypatos Hypatios!?!
Then the event must be called off!
I was counting on that title providing me years of entertainment. :laugh4:
:clown:
AussieGiant
07-01-2008, 16:41
It sounds like I need to pull out my KotR monologue on gaming philosophy. :balloon2:
I remember a long and detailed post in which I expounded on the virtues of "struggle" and the feeling of "accomplishment" rather than settle for the easy route of total domination and meta gaming.
Should I go find that and give it another shot? :beam:
Cecil XIX
07-01-2008, 17:22
Bah! Young wippersnappers, complaining about a single full-stack. Back in my day, I faced half-stacks of triple-silver and triple-gold chevron enemies. And the only reward for beating them was the knowledge that another one was going to take it's place next term! Kids today... :laugh4:
Privateerkev
07-01-2008, 17:23
wait till there is full-scale PvP battles. Humans are much more of a challenge than the stupid AI...
AussieGiant
07-01-2008, 17:43
wait till there is full-scale PvP battles. Humans are much more of a challenge than the stupid AI...
Given the MAD nature of PvP battles you'd have to be bonkers to start one without a landslide position in effect. Hell, can you imagine how much damage one of the KotR top tier General's would have done, knowing he had no chance except to inflict as many casualties as possible...oh man.
Ramses II CP
07-01-2008, 17:51
Yeah, I've messed with some SS 4.1 battles and it's pretty incredible how jedi-like our bodyguards are, significantly more so than in vanilla. Spearmen are horrible against them. I don't see us having too much trouble with these rebels beyond the next turn or two.
In fact I'll wager that the rebel bodyguards cause more casualties on their own than all the rest of their troops put together. Find a way to deal with them and you've got the V. I have a feeling the pace of things will pick back up in a hurry afterward, especially since we have to put together some big armies in order to put down the rebels. We aren't going to absorb huge losses, and those troops are going to have to do something after the rebellion is smashed...
:egypt:
Privateerkev
07-01-2008, 18:48
Given the MAD nature of PvP battles you'd have to be bonkers to start one without a landslide position in effect. Hell, can you imagine how much damage one of the KotR top tier General's would have done, knowing he had no chance except to inflict as many casualties as possible...oh man.
Sounds like your talking about FactionHeir... :beam:
My point was, if people think this is hard now, they haven't seen anything yet. :2thumbsup:
AussieGiant
07-01-2008, 18:58
Sounds like your talking about FactionHeir... :beam:
My point was, if people think this is hard now, they haven't seen anything yet. :2thumbsup:
You’re right I was thinking about FH. He would be an unmitigated disaster for the opposition. But there are a few other “quiet” achievers in the General list from where I’m sitting.
TC’s imagination will be really let loose in this game. The options he has at his disposal now are beyond what I can realistically comprehend!! :beam:
TC’s imagination will be really let loose in this game. The options he has at his disposal now are beyond what I can realistically comprehend!! :beam:
Yeah, this game gives me a lot more freedom. Rule 1.5 and my lack of an in-game avatar give me a lot more 'moral' freedom to do whatever I want. During the Cataclysm I was always worried about treating Bavaria and/or the Illuminati differently due to my IC affiliations with them. I'm much more comfortable manipulating things as a neutral observer. I also cannot understate just how significant it is to be able to use the hotseat console commands. That gives me almost total control over anything in the game. I no longer have to scrape the barrel to find armies that fit my desires. As long as I've got one turn to prepare, I can take control of a faction, I can build as many armies as I want in exactly the right configurations without any error. They will always move where I want them to (with some limitations) and I can even do diplomatic things like declaring Crusades, declaring Jihads, or even (I hope) ending wars.
That said, it is NOT my objective to use these tools to create an uber AI challenge. We've been there and done that and it gets dull. The main excitement is competition between the players, in whatever forms that takes. Most of my 'Events' will be designed to increase this competition and spark internal crises which will generate far more interesting scenarios than I can create on my own. I will prop up the AI if it's really being horrid or if it helps further the plotline, but I want to work towards a situation in which the players are competing with each other, not with the AI.
AussieGiant
07-01-2008, 21:02
Yeah, this game gives me a lot more freedom. Rule 1.5 and my lack of an in-game avatar give me a lot more 'moral' freedom to do whatever I want. During the Cataclysm I was always worried about treating Bavaria and/or the Illuminati differently due to my IC affiliations with them. I'm much more comfortable manipulating things as a neutral observer. I also cannot understate just how significant it is to be able to use the hotseat console commands. That gives me almost total control over anything in the game. I no longer have to scrape the barrel to find armies that fit my desires. As long as I've got one turn to prepare, I can take control of a faction, I can build as many armies as I want in exactly the right configurations without any error. They will always move where I want them to (with some limitations) and I can even do diplomatic things like declaring Crusades, declaring Jihads, or even (I hope) ending wars.
Just waaaay too much information there TC...I'd like to keep the exact details blurry so I can sleep relatively peacefully. :balloon2:
Vivid detail is like hearing someone talk about your grandparents having sex. :jawdrop:
Privateerkev
07-01-2008, 21:06
Vivid detail is like hearing someone talk about your grandparents having sex.
wait a minute...
Exactly what part of TC taking control of the AI is like your grandparents having sex?!? o_O
:clown:
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 03:03
Bah, SS keeps CTD'ing for some reason.
I'll try to find a cleaning disk tomorrow in case it is the lens.
Regular TV show DVD's work fine. M2TW starts up. But SS, and another DVD game won't start.
I don't know if it's related to all the other crap people seem to be downloading lately by accident.
Anyone know of a good free anti-virus software that will both detect AND let me remove the offending invaders for free?
I have Ad-aware and Spybot but those do not seem up to the task. I run ZoneAlarm as well but it obviously isn't helping.
Bah... :brood:
Just wanted everyone to know. I will keep everyone updated.
Good thing I was planning on having Mak sit things out for awhile...
Northnovas
07-02-2008, 03:26
When is it crashing? There are some CTD issues with SS. It usually occurs in the AI turn trying to create an event that can't happen. If you check the log you will see what the AI was doing last and the event that was trying to occur. This is the only CTD bug I am aware of with SS.
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but, could I join as an RGB as soon as it is possible? I've been talking to a few people about my idea for a character and I'm pretty much ready to play him.
phonicsmonkey
07-02-2008, 07:13
Anyone know of a good free anti-virus software that will both detect AND let me remove the offending invaders for free?
sorry to butt in here as a non-LotR player, but I've been running avast! for a couple of years now and I haven't had to use anything else since I installed it (I have uninstalled norton, spybot and ad-aware, just don't need them anymore)
it's freeware and you can get it here (http://www.avast.com/)
AussieGiant
07-02-2008, 07:32
sorry to butt in here as a non-LotR player, but I've been running avast! for a couple of years now and I haven't had to use anything else since I installed it (I have uninstalled norton, spybot and ad-aware, just don't need them anymore)
it's freeware and you can get it here (http://www.avast.com/)
All help is welcome phonicsmonkey. Butt in all you want.
Weird, I can't access the forums from my home computer (it keeps timing out) but from work everything is ok. I suspect my ISP.
Now can somebody please enlighten me about these speed bump stacks as I cannot look at the save?
IC I don't want Bart to run away, OOC I'm a bit hesitant if the speed bump turns out to be rather terminal road block :skull:
OverKnight
07-02-2008, 08:14
There are four full stack rebel armies consisting of entry level troops near Zagreb, Belgrade, Bucharest and, most importantly for you, Antioch.
The rebel army near Antioch holds the bridge to the north of the city. If you followed KotR, it's the infamous Iron Bridge (Pons Ferrus), site of many battles. Good times.
Barring any developments, I think TC will move that army south to besiege Antioch. In a way this is very similar to the first Crusade, when the Crusaders took the city, but were then trapped within it by a relief army.
Hopefully the Order will find the Holy Lance.
AussieGiant
07-02-2008, 08:30
Weird, I can't access the forums from my home computer (it keeps timing out) but from work everything is ok. I suspect my ISP.
Now can somebody please enlighten me about these speed bump stacks as I cannot look at the save?
IC I don't want Bart to run away, OOC I'm a bit hesitant if the speed bump turns out to be rather terminal road block :skull:
As an ex-KotR player I would suggest discretion is the better part of valour. It's tempting to get stuck into the challenge but you all need to accept the consequences of those actions.
Rise to the challenge, free your province and the rewards and effect to you and your house are immediate.
Fail in the challenge, fight a battle but have to retreat, then accept the negative traits and the consequences in the game (i.e. Tax issues, etc etc), stay alive reform and attack again...OR, die and see that effect on you (obviously), your house and the Empire as a whole.
Assess your skills, look at the full stack (they are full stacks but of low quality troops), and make the right choice for you.
There's nothing like a few avatar deaths to raise the stakes a little and to make sure the rest of us realise that this game is meant to be a challenge. If it isn't, we will all lose interest quickly.
I would like to strongly suggest to you all, that if your avatar dies, please accept this and resist the temptation to replay. The game is designed for you to rejoin quickly and deaths create a realistic atmosphere for us to play in. If we "fudge" this we will lose a key aspect of the game.
Essentially TC's asking a question...one of many he will ask in the game in the form of these "Events".
Are you good enough? Win then adavnce, fail then start again or face the setback with a stiff upper lip and move on.
Apologies if I sound like a bit of a prat...or condescending. It's not my intention.
OverKnight
07-02-2008, 08:50
Ah, Ituralde, a forward retreat, no one saw that coming. :laugh4:
It's a bit risky, because we're dealing with TC's Diabolical Intelligence rather than the Artificial variety. Still, I salute you.
Edit: Also speaking as an ex-Megas, you're probably giving FLYdude a migraine.
Ituralde
07-02-2008, 08:58
Well I thought, what do I have to loose really?
I rather die on some river crossing than holed up in some town, and I rather retreat and take Trebizond than have to retake Sinop!
Ignoramus
07-02-2008, 09:18
Yes, but you do realise that you've got the Caesar's royal army with you. He doesn't want it to get destroyed.
Ituralde
07-02-2008, 09:24
And I don't want to get Pavlos killed! :2thumbsup:
OverKnight
07-02-2008, 09:31
It's so hard to find good help these days, isn't it Igno? :laugh4:
Perhaps Pavlos will "retreat" all the way to Yerevan?
AussieGiant
07-02-2008, 09:47
Well I thought, what do I have to loose really?
I rather die on some river crossing than holed up in some town, and I rather retreat and take Trebizond than have to retake Sinop!
That's the spirit Ituralde!! Take that army that belongs to your lord and trash it against the enemy!! :beam:
Ituralde
07-02-2008, 09:50
On a more serious note, coming back to the whole Royal Army stuff.
Right now this really is the Royal Army of Ioannis Komnenos who has put it under the command of Pavlos Chrysovergos, right? Then the Chancellor should put all recruitment efforts towards bringing that army up to strength, shouldn't he? Including the hiring of mercenaries.
On the other hand Ioannis could just say that Pavlos is not leading his Royal Army, he hast just given men from his Royal Army to Pavlos. Then the Chancellor would have to direct all recruitment efforts towards bringing Ioannis (currently non-existant) Royal Army up to full strength. Pavlos on the other hand would just be running around with some units attached to him, which the Chancellor could take away from him, if he desires.
Now the next bit would be, can the Chancellor take those units away from Pavlos or can Pavlos simply not move those units? I'm just wondering, because now I could always walk with them as far as possible leaving the Chancellor with no movement points to take them away from me. Or would I then have to rely on the Chancellor moving me together with the army?
I truly am still confused about the whole Chancellor, Player business outside of Royal and Private Armies, since I didn't participate during that stage of KotR, so these things may seem obvious, but to me they're still confusing sometimes. It's hard to measure what you can and can't do OOC and what you should and shouldn't do IC...
All the above is strictly hypothetical, I just try to get a grip on the rules and want to confirm whether I understood them correctly or where I made mistakes.
Cheers!
Ituralde
AussieGiant
07-02-2008, 11:13
Hi Ituralde,
The rules are set, I think the issue you raise can be determined IC based on discussions referencing "empire legislation". Best man or most power wins...that's very workable.
Rules are designed as a frame work. There interpretation by everyone is part of the fun.
TC should not have to clarify too much or it wont be much fun.
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but, could I join as an RGB as soon as it is possible? I've been talking to a few people about my idea for a character and I'm pretty much ready to play him.
I'll spawn an avatar for you. What city would you like to start in?
Ituralde
07-02-2008, 12:25
4.3 – Army Replenishment: If a Private or Royal Army falls below the minimum strength level, all military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Army to minimum strength before money can be spent on other recruitment, unless the owner agrees otherwise. In the event of a conflict, a Royal Army takes priority over a Private Army. This rule does not apply to armies involved in a Civil War.
So unless Ignoramus tells the Megas otherwise FLYdude can not recruit any military units until the army with Pavlos is up to strength? And from the way this has been handled in the Test Game this seems to be an OOC issue, where the Megas just can't do anyhting. Just like he can't move your avatar if you forbid it in the SoT.
Or is this a case of "all military recruitment should be allocated to restoring the Army" and it's up to the Senate to see that he does so?
That's the main point I'm talking about. And from what TinCow wrote earlier (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1956911&postcount=677) it seemed to me that some rules are not meant to be breakable.
In fact I don't even know whether all recruitung done by Overknight during his term went straight to the Royal Armies. My intention is not to point fingers at people or to get a nice army for myself. I just want these things to be clear now during the beginning of the game. I'd also like to know these things should I ever decide to try for the position of Megas.
Cheers!
Ituralde
Ituralde is correct, the Royal Armies (and future Private Armies) should be topped up before any other recruitment occurs. On an IC level, this should be roleplayed as the Armies drawing in recruits for themselves, since their 'owners' are powerful men. The Megas can play it IC as supporting this if he wants, but if he opposes the Army's owner we can simply pretend that the recruitment is done by the Army owner directly. These are meant to be 'independent' military forces which assemble around powerful people. If the Megas really wants to send military recruits elsewhere before topping up a PA/RA, he should negotiate IC with the army's owner.
It is crucial that the PA/RA reinforcement rule be followed OOC, simply because the balance of power requires that the PA/RAs be maintained at a servicable level. If they are not, they lose their effectiveness and one of the main building blocks of power evaporates. That said, there is a lot going on in-game for the Megas player to keep track of. If your PA/RA needs to be topped up, it would be a good idea to inform that player about it OOC.
Forgive me my noobness, but
a) when is an army considered Private and when is it considered Royal?
b) are we allowed to recruit troops ourselves by putting them in the recruitment queue of our settlements in the SoT and are troops recruited as such in our own settlements considered to be part of our Private Army?
c) In the previous term, while Savvas was on his way to his Lord, I found out that a company of mercenary horse archers were with him, probably recruited by OverKnight. Are those now my private army or are they part of the Royal Army?
d) The troops under my command in Arta : are they my Private Army or my Royal Army.
e) Can I take the save and recruit mercenaries for my avatar?
Please forgive me if these are stupid questions that have been adressed before, but I couldn't find the answers to those questions in the FAQ thread :shrug:
edit: another one: The rules say: "A player's next avatar may only inherit a single province and a single retinue." I take it that a Will in which I give Arta to my yet to be spawned next avatar is valid?
edit2: From the description of Comes : "Cannot lead more than a half stack army unless it is a Private Army, a Royal Army, or within the borders of a province they personally control." addendum to question a) : are there other armies then Royal/Private? If so, what are they?
a) when is an army considered Private and when is it considered Royal?
The Basileus, Caesar, and any Megas Dux/Exarch get Royal Armies. All others get Private armies. It's in the rank rules.
b) are we allowed to recruit troops ourselves by putting them in the recruitment queue of our settlements in the SoT and are troops recruited as such in our own settlements considered to be part of our Private Army?
If the Megas is ok with this, sure. However, this is technically restricted to him alone, so do not do it unless you have specific permission.
c) In the previous term, while Savvas was on his way to his Lord, I found out that a company of mercenary horse archers were with him, probably recruited by OverKnight. Are those now my private army or are they part of the Royal Army?
You are not of a high enough rank to have a Private Army, so they cannot belong to you. At your current rank, the only military forces you can assemble are those inside your own garrison or within a fort inside a province you control. Essentially, until you reach a rank that can control a Private Army, you can only exercise absolute control over defensive units.
d) The troops under my command in Arta : are they my Private Army or my Royal Army.
Neither, they are your garrison. Anything that starts the turn inside that city is yours to control. Just make sure your garrison restrictions in the SOT are up-to-date, so that the Megas cannot pillage them without your approval. However, you cannot do much with these units without the Megas' permission, simply because if they end the turn out of the city, you lose your absolute control over them. The best you can do is take them out, fight, and come back to the city in the same turn. Another option is to transport them to a fort within the borders of your province, since they also cannot be removed from there (if you've given the proper SOT orders). The trick on that last part is getting permission to spend the money for a fort from the Megas.
e) Can I take the save and recruit mercenaries for my avatar?
Not without the permission of the Megas. He controls the purse strings in all aspects of the game. Anything that requires monetary expenditure has to have his approval.
edit: another one: The rules say: "A player's next avatar may only inherit a single province and a single retinue." I take it that a Will in which I give Arta to my yet to be spawned next avatar is valid?
Yes. We concluded that passing on a single province was acceptable, since it didn't guarantee any kind of dominance in the game.
edit2: From the description of Comes : "Cannot lead more than a half stack army unless it is a Private Army, a Royal Army, or within the borders of a province they personally control." addendum to question a) : are there other armies then Royal/Private? If so, what are they?
Yes, but they don't really have names. Anything that isn't a Private or Royal Army is just an army. Call it whatever you want. Your city garrison, a Megas Army, the Fabulous Five-Thousand of Flavius Flabergaster, etc. I tend to refer to the units that you 'control' inside your settlement/fort as a 'garrison' but there aren't any mandatory terms for it.
OverKnight
07-02-2008, 14:07
I couldn't top off the Royal Armies, because we didn't have facilities to recruit archers. I recruited Skythikon for cavalry, however with the distances involved in the game, actually getting them to the royal armies was difficult.
I guess in hindsight I could have used mercs to flesh out the royal armies, but I wanted to make do with what we had due to expense and providing an impetus to build up the castles.
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 14:50
When is it crashing? There are some CTD issues with SS. It usually occurs in the AI turn trying to create an event that can't happen. If you check the log you will see what the AI was doing last and the event that was trying to occur. This is the only CTD bug I am aware of with SS.
It crashes right on start up. The "Kingdom of Heaven" backdrop comes up and the cursor turns to a spinning hourglass. But then it goes back to windows and informs me M2TW crashed. Vanilla M2TW starts up fine.
Because of the Senate session, I had not loaded up SS for days. And I have been only playing a CD game in the meantime, "Delta Force:BlackHawk Down." But last night I wanted something more relaxing so I put in "SimCity Societies", which is a DVD game, and it wouldn't start. Frustrated, I decided to test SS, while also looking at the new save, so I DL'd the save and tried SS. No luck. But I can play vanilla M2TW and episodes of "Rescue Me" just fine. My gf said it might be a dirty lens and I was too tired last night to get a cleaning disk so I'll do it today.
I planned on having Mak sit in Antioch until pneumonia went away so this isn't catastrophic. But it is annoying that I can't look at the save in the meantime.
sorry to butt in here as a non-LotR player, but I've been running avast! for a couple of years now and I haven't had to use anything else since I installed it (I have uninstalled norton, spybot and ad-aware, just don't need them anymore)
it's freeware and you can get it here (http://www.avast.com/)
Thanks PM!
I'm at work now and will be AFK tonight but I will definitely try this. :2thumbsup:
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 15:04
Weird, I can't access the forums from my home computer (it keeps timing out) but from work everything is ok. I suspect my ISP.
Now can somebody please enlighten me about these speed bump stacks as I cannot look at the save?
IC I don't want Bart to run away, OOC I'm a bit hesitant if the speed bump turns out to be rather terminal road block :skull:
As an ex-KotR player I would suggest discretion is the better part of valour. It's tempting to get stuck into the challenge but you all need to accept the consequences of those actions.
Rise to the challenge, free your province and the rewards and effect to you and your house are immediate.
Fail in the challenge, fight a battle but have to retreat, then accept the negative traits and the consequences in the game (i.e. Tax issues, etc etc), stay alive reform and attack again...OR, die and see that effect on you (obviously), your house and the Empire as a whole.
Assess your skills, look at the full stack (they are full stacks but of low quality troops), and make the right choice for you.
There's nothing like a few avatar deaths to raise the stakes a little and to make sure the rest of us realise that this game is meant to be a challenge. If it isn't, we will all lose interest quickly.
I would like to strongly suggest to you all, that if your avatar dies, please accept this and resist the temptation to replay. The game is designed for you to rejoin quickly and deaths create a realistic atmosphere for us to play in. If we "fudge" this we will lose a key aspect of the game.
Essentially TC's asking a question...one of many he will ask in the game in the form of these "Events".
Are you good enough? Win then adavnce, fail then start again or face the setback with a stiff upper lip and move on.
Apologies if I sound like a bit of a prat...or condescending. It's not my intention.
AG and Rowan:
Conversations on what Bart should do should probably involve a.) his feudal lord and/or b.) the man who actually owns Antioch and has actually locked the garrison inside the city. Right now, all Bart could do is charge an army across a bridge by himself with his bodyguard units.
:beam:
On a more serious note, coming back to the whole Royal Army stuff.
Right now this really is the Royal Army of Ioannis Komnenos who has put it under the command of Pavlos Chrysovergos, right? Then the Chancellor should put all recruitment efforts towards bringing that army up to strength, shouldn't he? Including the hiring of mercenaries.
On the other hand Ioannis could just say that Pavlos is not leading his Royal Army, he hast just given men from his Royal Army to Pavlos. Then the Chancellor would have to direct all recruitment efforts towards bringing Ioannis (currently non-existant) Royal Army up to full strength. Pavlos on the other hand would just be running around with some units attached to him, which the Chancellor could take away from him, if he desires.
Now the next bit would be, can the Chancellor take those units away from Pavlos or can Pavlos simply not move those units? I'm just wondering, because now I could always walk with them as far as possible leaving the Chancellor with no movement points to take them away from me. Or would I then have to rely on the Chancellor moving me together with the army?
I truly am still confused about the whole Chancellor, Player business outside of Royal and Private Armies, since I didn't participate during that stage of KotR, so these things may seem obvious, but to me they're still confusing sometimes. It's hard to measure what you can and can't do OOC and what you should and shouldn't do IC...
All the above is strictly hypothetical, I just try to get a grip on the rules and want to confirm whether I understood them correctly or where I made mistakes.
Cheers!
Ituralde
TC handled the "army top-off question" so I'll tackle the "is my army the royal army or not?" question.
Basically, your army is the Caesar's royal army until he says it isn't. The moment he says it isn't, then your basically just running around with army units. And since you don't have the rank for a private army, those army units are with you completely at the whim of the Megas, unless they are in a garrison or fort. If they are out in the field, by the time the Megas gets the save back, he can move them away from your avatar and/or disband them.
We encountered stuff like this in the Test Game. Basically, don't upset your Megas. In your case, you can upset the Megas if you don't upset the Caesar. But definitely don't upset both or your avatar might end up running all over Anatolia by himself.
So, if the Caesar gets mad, he can claim that isn't his army anymore and he can demand that recruitment stops until units are formed around his person. This can put a strain on the treasury so the Megas will probably evaluate all units that aren't part of garrisons or legal armies. Therefore, your units will be at risk for disbandment so as to balance the books.
In the Test Game, the King took his army, dumped it into another avatar, and then demanded a whole new army. The Megas was on the other side of the civil war, but had to comply. (boy I'm glad we did that test game now.)
So, if the Caesar gets mad, he can claim that isn't his army anymore and he can demand that recruitment stops until units are formed around his person.
Well, I'm not sure if he can simply say 'that's not a Royal Army.' If he does, the Megas can just say fine, but the old Royal Army is the reinforcements for your non-existent one, so I don't have to recruit any more for you and you'll have to wait until it arrives to use it. On a practical basis, the Private and Royal Armies should only be rebuilt from a completely new group if they are wiped out or completely disbanded. The more effective thing for the Caesar is to simply change the commander of his Royal Army. It would be easier to simply relieve Ituralde from duty and move the army personally than to have it rebuilt.
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 15:29
Well, I'm not sure if he can simply say 'that's not a Royal Army.' If he does, the Megas can just say fine, but the old Royal Army is the reinforcements for your non-existent one, so I don't have to recruit any more for you and you'll have to wait until it arrives to use it. On a practical basis, the Private and Royal Armies should only be rebuilt from a completely new group if they are wiped out or completely disbanded. The more effective thing for the Caesar is to simply change the commander of his Royal Army. It would be easier to simply relieve Ituralde from duty and move the army personally than to have it rebuilt.
But didn't we do that very thing in the Test Game? Ramses handed part of his army over to TLG and the rest to Tristan and then said, "it's not my army anymore so I want a new one." TLG and Tristan locked their armies so OK couldn't just move the units back to the King. He had to recruit a whole new army for the King even though units from the old army still existed.
I then asked if an army owner could take his army, dump it all in a city for someone's garrison, have the person lock their garrison, and then demand a brand new shiny army. And if I recall, you said that was fine.
Now I realize this could get expensive, and cause the player of the Megas a headache. But what exactly can an army owner do with his army, and at what point can he demand a new one?
Do we want to outlaw using legal armies as a way to give army units to garrisons and forts?
I remember you saying something about how units belong to the person or governor that they are in possession of. Once a "private army" unit is handed over to another person, it stops being a "private army" unit.
Otherwise, we need to keep track of every single unit and where they come from. o_O
But didn't we do that very thing in the Test Game? Ramses handed part of his army over to TLG and the rest to Tristan and then said, "it's not my army anymore so I want a new one." TLG and Tristan locked their armies so OK couldn't just move the units back to the King. He had to recruit a whole new army for the King even though units from the old army still existed.
You are correct, but the Megas couldn't control the units in TLG and Tristan's armies, that's why that worked. That's not true for Ituralde. If Ig revoked Royal Army status from Ig's army, then the units are up for grabs for the Megas and he can simply designate them the new reinforcements for Ig's Royal Army, wherever that might be.
AussieGiant
07-02-2008, 15:43
Meanwhile back at the ranch, the internal squabbling outlined here degrades the effectiveness of Empire's defence and allows the AI half a chance to get back at us.
My point is that while the rules will have various interpretations as we all will certainly have, the natural checks and balances of the game plus IC role playing should provide for workable solutions in these types of situations.
If I was a Megas in this situation I'd advance the turns a few times and see what happens to the guy demanding an army after conducting business that way.
I agree we need to find a basic “understand” and “intention” for what the rules are designed to support. But micro levels of analysis, while always possible, can be handled in the normal struggle for power and balance inside the IC experience.
I believe that TC will always be able to explain his intention and spirit of the rule...this should then provide a direction for everyone to follow.
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 15:48
You are correct, but the Megas couldn't control the units in TLG and Tristan's armies, that's why that worked. That's not true for Ituralde. If Ig revoked Royal Army status from Ig's army, then the units are up for grabs for the Megas and he can simply designate them the new reinforcements for Ig's Royal Army, wherever that might be.
Ah ok. So if the new "possesor" of the royal/private army units "locks" the units, then the owner of the RA/PA can demand brand new units? So, garrison dumping is still ok?
So, if Ituralde makes it to Treb and takes it, he can then lock the RA in there. And Ig could then demand a brand new RA? Because once it's "locked" in to something else, those units, for all intents and purposes, stop being units of the original RA?
This question also came up in the test game as a way for 2 RA/PA holders to work together to force the Megas to turn 2 half-stacks into a full-stack and a half. By having one guy dump his whole army into another army, having the second guy "lock" it, and then the orignal guy demands a new half-stack.
So, if these moves are still legal, how does that jive with this statement:
On a practical basis, the Private and Royal Armies should only be rebuilt from a completely new group if they are wiped out or completely disbanded.
I'm trying to figure out what is allowed and not allowed.
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 15:52
Meanwhile back at the ranch, the internal squabbling outlined here degrades the effectiveness of Empire's defence and allows the AI half a chance to get back at us.
My point is that while the rules will have various interpretations as we all will certainly have, the natural checks and balances of the game plus IC role playing should provide for workable solutions in these types of situations.
If I was a Megas in this situation I'd advance the turns a few times and see what happens to the guy demanding an army after conducting business that way.
I agree we need to find a basic “understand” and “intention” for what the rules are designed to support. But micro levels of analysis, while always possible, can be handled in the normal struggle for power and balance inside the IC experience.
I believe that TC will always be able to explain his intention and spirit of the rule...this should then provide a direction for everyone to follow.
Yes but now that rules are concrete, they need to be understood. They aren't up for interpretation. So we need to know the limits of them. In KotR, there was a fair amount of fudging since the Chancellor could break the rules that didn't have a * next to them. But now, the rules are to be followed. They can only be amended.
Since the Megas has to follow the rules OOC, in some cases, we CAN'T leave it up to IC interaction and "imperial legislation" as you put it. We need to have a basic understanding of the rule-set, and then we all have a responsibility to follow it, and make sure others follow it. Otherwise the house of cards will fall.
Trying to limit discussion of the rules is not helpful... :no:
Ah ok. So if the new "possesor" of the royal/private army units "locks" the units, then the owner of the RA/PA can demand brand new units? So, garrison dumping is still ok?
So, if Ituralde makes it to Treb and takes it, he can then lock the RA in there. And Ig could then demand a brand new RA? Because once it's "locked" in to something else, those units, for all intents and purposes, stop being units of the original RA?
Correct, though Treb would have to be given to Ituralde by Igno first, since the province goes to the conqueror's Lord, not the conqueror. Or Igno could just keep it and make the RA the new garrison himself.
So, if these moves are still legal, how does that jive with this statement:
On a practical basis, the Private and Royal Armies should only be rebuilt from a completely new group if they are wiped out or completely disbanded.
I'm trying to figure out what is allowed and not allowed.
I jives because the statement you quoted is just wrong. I forgot about the scenario you then brought up. Not everything I say is 100% accurate. I do my best, but I'm only mortal... for now. :laugh4:
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 15:56
Correct, though Treb would have to be given to Ituralde by Igno first, since the province goes to the conqueror's Lord, not the conqueror. Or Igno could just keep it and make the RA the new garrison himself.
Good point. I guess that was a bad example. But my earlier point of "army dumping" still stands.
I jives because the statement you quoted is just wrong. I forgot about the scenario you then brought up. Not everything I say is 100% accurate. I do my best, but I'm only mortal... for now. :laugh4:
You were wrong!?! :dizzy2:
Then who's supposed to correct me when I'm wrong!?!
(which is often)
AussieGiant
07-02-2008, 16:19
LOL,
See what happens when the guy who should know...made an error...
While PK's skills at absorbing large amounts of text and determining the correct "meaning" as defined by TC's brain...how many "other" players are able to do this?
I'm struggling...that's for sure.
Knowing the rules and understanding the correct meaning as it applies to all the situation faced on a turn by turn basis will mean more than a few requests to "go back in time" and redo because the Megas got it wrong. No?
I'll spawn an avatar for you. What city would you like to start in?
Smyrna, please.
Ituralde
07-02-2008, 16:42
I just want to add I'm glad we had this conversation as it has once again given me a better grasp of the situation. We will always be blending IC and OOC, it's unavoidable but a common baseline is a good thing. I think we have found that now, everything else will be IC dealings. And I feel I can handle these situations much more comfortable should I ever get in the position of Megas! :2thumbsup:
Barring an extraordinarily grievous error that seriously screws up the game, there will be no time travel in this game. I know the rules are complex, so I'm doing my best to clarify them whenever there's a question. I will continue to do this for the entire duration of the game. So, just do your best to abide by them, ask me questions either publicly or via PM if you are confused, and we'll just roll with the punches. All problems that can be fixed IC will be resolved in that manner, even if they had OOC origins. Everything else will be resolved in whatever manner will disrupt the game the least.
Remember, we do this to have fun, not to grind away at rules and regulations for their own sake. Let's try to be a little flexible where we can and tolerant of unintentional errors.
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 16:44
LOL,
See what happens when the guy who should know...made an error...
While PK's skills at absorbing large amounts of text and determining the correct "meaning" as defined by TC's brain...how many "other" players are able to do this?
I'm wrong at this far more often than I'd like. I do absorb the text, but I frequently miss what it was that TC actually meant, and need for him to correct me. Hence why I put questions and analysis in here so much. I figure we all could benefit from the rules being made more clear.
I'm struggling...that's for sure.
I think we all are.
Knowing the rules and understanding the correct meaning as it applies to all the situation faced on a turn by turn basis will mean more than a few requests to "go back in time" and redo because the Megas got it wrong. No?
I think what is more likely, is that the player who is the Megas, or TC will get requests to edit things using console commands. I know this has already happened, since I was the one who sent the request. Last term, I had Nicosia set up to get a "land-clearance" but OK put roads in the build queue. Thinking it was some sort of diabolical Byzantine plot against my character, I asked OK and TC OOC if they could fix it with the console commands. Much to my surprise, roads being in the queue was simply an OOC mistake on OK's part. He let me put land-clearance in ahead of the half-built roads and all was well.
So, if you think a rule was actually broken, just talk to the Megas player and/or TC and I'm sure it will get straightened out somehow. :yes:
AussieGiant
07-02-2008, 17:24
I agree with the last three posts from you all
Hell guy's it's Ituralde, TC, PK and myself...it's not as if we haven't done this before over the last two years or so...plus we know each other more than is normal on a message board. :beam:
Anyway, good discussion,
I can only imagine what the other 20 odd players thought of it :clown:
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 17:30
Iplus we know each other more than is normal on a message board.
I know many of you better than I know people in "real life". I don't know whether this is an indication over how close many of us have become over the course of PBM's, hotseats, and mafia games, or an indication that I need to get off the computer more. ;)
Anyway, good discussion,
I can only imagine what the other 20 odd players thought of it :clown:
I'm assuming everyone else just sits by frozen in stark terror. :clown:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-02-2008, 18:55
Ibn-Khaldun sits frozen in stark terror.
Now ..
Could we just start over again and in plain human this time please?? :clown:
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 19:03
Could we just start over again and in plain human this time please?? :clown:
The rules tell you what you can and can't do. The rules tell the player who is running the game for 10 turns what he can and can't do. If you have questions, post them on here and/or PM TinCow.
For you, the rules will be fairly simple. You will have control of your "character" and his unit of bodyguards. You have full control over his "story" and his personality, traits, ect...
First off, decide if you want to join one of the existing political structures. This will give you characters to interact with and things to do. You do not have to join anything. But your options will be quite limited unless you can convince the player who is running things right now (FlyDude) to give you an army.
Feel free to send IC letters to people. IC means "in character" and you will be speaking as your character. Everyone here is good about responding to IC correspondance unless they are busy in real life.
Read the rules again. When you think you have a good grasp of the rules, read them a third time. Ask more questions when you can't figure out what rules mean.
The most important part to remember, is to add a :clown: smiley to every post. I can not stress this enough. It is absolutely essential that you do this. No excuses will be tolerated. :clown:
Hi. Your Megas Logothetes asks you very nicely not to exploit any personal army loopholes while the Empire is under serious attack from all sides.
Thank you. :beam:
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 19:39
Hi. Your Megas Logothetes asks you very nicely not to exploit any personal army loopholes while the Empire is under serious attack from all sides.
Pffttt...
That's the best time to exploit personal army loopholes...
:clown:
_Tristan_
07-02-2008, 19:42
Hi. Your Megas Logothetes asks you very nicely not to exploit any personal army loopholes while the Empire is under serious attack from all sides.
Thank you. :beam:
Could wa ask our Megas vey politely to answer the PM sent his way ?
:clown:
@Andres: isn't Anastasion (lemon) in Belgrade? Kosmas is safely holed up in Athens ATM.
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 20:31
@Andres: isn't Anastasion (lemon) in Belgrade? Kosmas is safely holed up in Athens ATM.
My guess was that the mistake was intentional. Since you have now spoiled Andres's uber-plot, you will be subject to years of harrassment. It will probably have to do with mafia-game spam.
I fear for you...
@Andres: isn't Anastasion (lemon) in Belgrade? Kosmas is safely holed up in Athens ATM.
Let's blame it on the chaos caused by the sudden appearance of barbaric hordes at our borders, shall we ~;) (--> see, you don't always need that damnable clown smiley! And there are even more options: ~:joker: :jester: ~;p )
Ibn-Khaldun
07-02-2008, 21:25
Just want to know something ..
What dose those IC and OOC actually mean??
IC- in character??
OOC - out of character??
Am I right?
:clown:
Just want to know something ..
What dose those IC and OOC actually mean??
IC- in character??
OOC - out of character??
Am I right?
:clown:
You are right :bow:
Btw... let me tell you something :listen: that clown smiley is not at all necessary, you know. I have it on good sources that those who do not use it, will get more provinces IC then others. But :quiet: Let's keep that our little secret. Don't tell it to PK and EF ~;)
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 21:34
Just want to know something ..
What dose those IC and OOC actually mean??
IC- in character??
OOC - out of character??
Am I right?
:clown:
Yes.
If I speak to you IC, I speak to you as Makedonios, a Grandmaster of a Knightly Order of warrior-monks in 11th century Byzantium.
If I speak to you OOC, it is as Kevin, the friendly lovable huggable member of the throneroom.
:clown:
The mixing of IC and OOC is generally frowned upon. While there are no real rules on it, and such rules would be pretty much impossible to define and uphold, there are a few general guidelines most of us follow.
1.) make clear which one your speaking in. Stuff in here is OOC unless said otherwise. Stuff in the game threads tend to be assumed to be IC unless said otherwise.
2.) make clear that conflict is only IC. If you scream your lungs out at another character IC, it is nice to send them a friendly OOC PM and let them know it's nothing personal.
3.) do not use information IC that you learned OOC. If you read a story in the story thread about a conversation between Makedonios and Anna, there is probably no way your character would know this. So you probably shouldn't mention it IC or let it color your IC interactions.
4.) don't take it personal. Your character will get in trouble. It's politics and politics is a rough and tumble world. But do remember that people are having a problem with your character, not you as a person.
*edit*
5.) Andres reminded me of this one. Be sure to use the clown smiley in all OOC posts. This lets us know your kidding and in a good mood. If you don't use this smiley, people will think your cranky like Andres.
:clown:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-02-2008, 21:34
You are right :bow:
Btw... let me tell you something :listen: that clown smiley is not at all necessary, you know. I have it on good sources that those who do not use it, will get more provinces IC then others. But :quiet: Let's keep that our little secret. Don't tell it to PK and EF ~;)
If so then from this moment til the end of the game I will not use it ..
I think :yes:
:clown:
Ibn-Khaldun is a true master of life. He has shunned the ways of the dark and evil camel lord Andres and embraced the path of clownish enlightenment.
I salute you :clown:
Privateerkev
07-02-2008, 21:51
I can already tell he will fit in well around here.
We will have to shorten the name though. It's tradition. Plus I'm lazy and don't feel like typing the whole thing out.
He is hereafter known as IK.
:clown:
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 01:54
Alright, I downloaded avast and ran it.
SS now works fine.
I'll let you guys know if that changes.
phonicsmonkey
07-03-2008, 02:34
Alright, I downloaded avast and ran it.
SS now works fine.
yay! I saved LotR!
:clown:
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 02:57
yay! I saved LotR!
:clown:
No you saved me.
But I'm touched that you think I am the whole game.
:clown:
Ignoramus
07-03-2008, 03:00
I find it funny that PK has the trait "Unleashed Ambition", when Makedonius is trying desperately hard to make out that the Order is not ambitious.
Askthepizzaguy
07-03-2008, 03:09
If I speak to you OOC, it is as Kevin, the friendly lovable huggable member of the throneroom.
I can speak from personal experience, he is both friendly and huggable. But love... alas, poor Monomachos has his heart set on one special girl. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=28561)
You know, that certain special someone who has thusfar interacted with everyone in the bleedin' Roman empire except Efstratios. I understand there was even some nudity and unadulterated violence involved. Some Senators get all the fun.
And where oh, where has my little Tarasios gone? I was so looking forward to showing him everything I know about romance...
With a woman, of course.
Meanwhile I'm engaged in the ruthlessly diabolical connundrum as to what particular kind of wood to use when constructing a wooden palisade around the pile of dirt and twigs known as Durazzo. I was actually thinking about getting some of my fellow senators together, some ale, and some fine women, all getting drunk, and beginning our very own settlement here. It seems a rather nice place for a town. It just needs some additions like, I don't know...
people... huts... roads... mercantile enterprises... and of course, a few brothels for my fellow Senators to enjoy, and a pleasure palace for myself. If anyone sees me going into the pleasure palace with an entourage of slave girls and foreign fruitcakes, think nothing of it. I've been recently elected to the position of Grande Inspector of thy noble Houses of Ill-Repute and Chairman of the Board of Directors for the Mercantile Purveyors of Filth Regulation Committee. I've been charged with the most sacred and solemn duty, which is to personally ensure that all of the tight and revealing outfits worn by our ravishing ladies (and ladies* with an asterisk) are worn skin-tight or not at all.
It is with great honour and humility that I begrudgingly accept this heavy burden and responsibility. This personal sacrifice for the good of the empire must never be forgotten.
*I must say, that is one tempting asterisk, but somebody has to do it.
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 03:20
I find it funny that PK has the trait "Unleashed Ambition", when Makedonius is trying desperately hard to make out that the Order is not ambitious.
It is only a coincidence that I have not asked TC to delete that trait. Only a coincidence. You got that? Just a coincidence. Do not read too much into that. At all. There is nothing that can be gained by looking at that trait.
And Makedonios still maintains that the Order is not ambitious. If you wish to dispute that, your more than welcome to send him yet another IC PM telling him what he can and can not do. :laugh4:
I can speak from personal experience, he is both friendly and huggable. But love... alas, poor Monomachos has his heart set on one special girl. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=28561)
If you speak from personal experience, it is news to me.
You know, that certain special someone who has thusfar interacted with everyone in the bleedin' Roman empire except Efstratios. I understand there was even some nudity and unadulterated violence involved. Some Senators get all the fun.
I'm happy her and Mak finally had skin contact...
Took years to take it even that far...
:beam:
The Lemongate is looking to make things real interesting at Belgrade with his absence during this 24 hour period...
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 04:04
The Lemongate is looking to make things real interesting at Belgrade with his absence during this 24 hour period...
You could give him more time if your worried about the avatar's survival.
Yep, duration of the turn is entirely up to the Megas. End it or extend it as you see fit.
Oh, I know, I should have said, The Lemongate is looking to make things interesting at Belgrade with his absence during this 24 hour period, combined with my unwillingness to put slack into the schedule.
*Looks at Northnovas taking the save 24 hours and 7 minutes after it was opened.* :inquisitive:
Actually, I wasn't gonna pick up the save until a bit later tonight anyway, probably after TC's bedtime, and since he needs to play the rebel turn, LG will have a few more hours for the last-minute order.
Ituralde
07-03-2008, 08:01
Pontic Frontier
An army roughly 1500 in strength has gathered near Sinop, which was defended by Pavlos Chrysovergos with 370 men. He has withdrawn from the city to east, though I don't know what he expects to find there except Turks, for it is not possible to pass to Trebizond by the coast, and no ships are deployed in the Black Sea.
WHAT!? Wait, wha... :inquisitive:
Really scared me there for a second. I had to go and look for myself and luckily for me I haven't made a complete fool out of Pavlos. There is a land route to Trebizond it's just that the Turkish army is currently blocking the ford that leads there. So once they move I should be able to get through.
If they don't move... well there's always Edict 2.4b! :evilgrin:
OverKnight
07-03-2008, 08:08
Yes in bizarro world this would be a perfect time to declare war on the Turks. :laugh4:
Why don't we just sell Sinop to the Turks and then attack them?
WHAT!? Wait, wha... :inquisitive:
Really scared me there for a second. I had to go and look for myself and luckily for me I haven't made a complete fool out of Pavlos. There is a land route to Trebizond it's just that the Turkish army is currently blocking the ford that leads there. So once they move I should be able to get through.
If they don't move... well there's always Edict 2.4b! :evilgrin:
Hah. It was an honest mistake on my part. I checked the route by clicking and dragging, and it was all the way around, then I looked at that river, because I knew the Turks could block the route, but I just didn't see the ford. Still, I'm glad this ended up working out as a prank on you. :laugh4:
Oh, and just to spoil your fun, I don't really want you taking far-away Trebizond yet, so I've asked Ignoramus to recall you. I'll won't allocate enough recruitment so that Igno feels comfortable taking on the rebels without you. Sorry, I'm not very nice (just ask Tristan :laugh4: )
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 08:39
Oh, and just to spoil your fun, I don't really want you taking far-away Trebizond yet, so I've asked Ignoramus to recall you. I'll won't allocate enough recruitment so that Igno feels comfortable taking on the rebels without you. Sorry, I'm not very nice (just ask Tristan :laugh4: )
Exactly... I think FlyDude should get the "Harsh Taskmaster" trait... :whip:
Though I'm happy that Zagreb was sold... Being unable to save the population from the ravages of the rebels chaffed with Methodios...
OverKnight
07-03-2008, 09:20
Yes, good. . .this will cast my rather lacksadaisial term as Megas in a kinder light.
Of course TC's intervention in my term, the armor sweepstakes, was a bit less severe, it just made a a lot of people build churches instead of roads or grain exchanges.
Any idea when my army will be finished FLYdude? I wanna kill some Turks :clown:
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 11:33
From the 1095 Report in the Megas Thread
Bucharest was in best shape, being outnumbered only by about 3 to 1, and Basileus Alexios attacked the rebel army gathered near Bucharest. He inflicted significant casualties and retreated to the city.
Zagreb has been abandoned by Methodios Tagaris.
I expected to do the exact same thing if I had been allowed to recruit a few mercenaries...:wall:
Not so much abandoned as forced to do it...
With permission of Methodios Tagaris, Zagreb has been sold to the Hungarians. The agreed price was 10,000 florins, which was delivered immediately. The Megas Logothetes thanks our good Hungarian allies for their cooperation in our time of need.
The finances are in good shape, and the Empire looks to profit by about 3000 florins thanks to the Hungarians, despite heavy recruitment and construction.
A little thanks to Methodios for his participation in the war effort would have been kind...
Kagemusha
07-03-2008, 11:46
I just wanted to tell you guys that i have been having large issues with my home internet connection for several days and it seems because of that i missed the entire senate session + the only intent i picked my current character failed miserably also meanwhile, which was to get the Kantakouzinos family to the family tree.. Still though i will continue playing my character, but i would be grateful if he would remain where he was when i left him the last time or atleast turned back to that direction. I hope my home internet will be back in couple days so i could actually move my character and play possible battles also.:shame:
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 12:18
Hope you can solve your connection problems, Kag... Otherwise, if anymore players go missing, we'll soon be in dire straits...
OverKnight
07-03-2008, 12:59
Hope your internet woes clear up Kagemusha.
Don't give up hope about getting into the family tree, remember there's always Man of the Hour. That's how Maximillian Mandorf got into the family tree in KotR.
Hope you can solve your connection problems, Kag... Otherwise, if anymore players go missing, we'll soon be in dire straits...
Even without Kage, we've still got 27 active players, which is way more than KOTR or WOTS ever had. I actually think we're at the ideal level for now. Enough to have a fully fleshed out game, but not so many that people have absolutely no chance to get beyond Strator level. As the game goes on and we expand into more territories, we will be able to support more players without disrupting the balance. I anticipate that after the third Megas term (the one following this one) we will have expanded enough to recruit into the 30-40 player region. Until then, I'd prefer to hold off.
For all you landless Strators, the next event will probably give you all an opportunity to own a province. It's the one I'm most excited about so far. I think you'll enjoy it. :2thumbsup:
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 13:59
Seeing how we get adoption offers every single turn, I do not think we'll get many MoH offers...
I hope to be wrong...
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 14:02
For all you landless Strators, the next event will probably give you all an opportunity to own a province. It's the one I'm most excited about so far. I think you'll enjoy it. :2thumbsup:
Seeing how the last Event deprived me of my province, I better get it back with the next one or else there will be hell to pay, M. TC :whip:
:clown:
Event 2 has only deprived you of your province because you chose to play it that way. Get some friends/allies together and take it from the rebels after they conquer it from whomever you've sold it to. Nothing is forcing you to permanently abandon it.
Ibn-Khaldun
07-03-2008, 14:28
For all you landless Strators, the next event will probably give you all an opportunity to own a province. It's the one I'm most excited about so far. I think you'll enjoy it. :2thumbsup:
:applause: :jumping: :applause:
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 14:29
Sorry TC, I must disagree with your previous statement...
I did not choose but I felt I was forced to play it that way... There was no way for anybody to reach me in time and bring help... (Though I can understand how going out on a limb like that only made the fall harder...)
My only options were either to get the Megas to provide me with some mercs so that I could hold my own against Lydham (which was refused and amply justified IC, no complaining here) or run (which I did)...
So choice was never really an option... If I had a choice, I would have done what OK did at Bucharest : go out against Lydham and his men and whittle them down as much as possible but with only a BG (though overpowered) against 1700 men that would have been suicide... So Methodios swallowed his pride and ran... To fight another day...
I hope I don't come out as grumpy because I'm not... I only feel a bit cheated of my ability to make choices for my avatar but I'll go with the flow, don't worry ... and wreak havoc next time... :charge:
AussieGiant
07-03-2008, 14:32
Old Chinese proverb.
"Ahhhh even with gun to forehead, person always has choice.
You must simprry choose consequences of that choice."
ahhhh.
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I definitely made you abandon the place. What I have not done is make you completely give up on it. If you don't go back and reclaim it, that's your own decision, not mine. This event was never designed to permanently remove any provinces from our control.
AussieGiant
07-03-2008, 14:37
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I definitely made you abandon the place. What I have not done is make you completely give up on it. If you don't go back and reclaim it, that's your own decision, not mine. This event was never designed to permanently remove any provinces from our control.
rasping hollow sounding voice
"All provinces will be within our grasp. Nothing can stop us. It is only a matter of time young Jedi Games Master."
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 14:45
I haven't given up on it as is made clear in the story I posted before we started this discussion...
I would simply have liked to have a chance to keep it (even if very slim... defeating 1700 men with only 25 BG is not slim by any margin...), that's all...
Were I in Belgrade, I would feel the same... Bucharest and Sinop have their chances, though...
In my opinion, Zagreb and Belgrade had none...
But, hey, TC, don't worry... There's no hard feelings... As I said before, I'll ride with the flow...
Askthepizzaguy
07-03-2008, 14:53
Mmmmm.... this AussieGiant, too sure of himself, he is... and games not make one a Jedi. Only knowledge of the force, properly studied, can THAT, bring about. My own counsel I will keep on who is ready. From the clutches of the evil Catholics, the world must be reclaimed, and an easy task THAT will be not. Only a true jedi, with the force as his ally, can destroy the Pope, and his Emperors. You must feel the force flow through you... but beware of the dark side. Fear, anger, jealousy, these are the path to the dark side. Once you go down that path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Fear these rebel hordes, you should not. Miss your fallen friends, you should not. Hate, you must not feel against TinCow. For in order to become a master of the force, tested you must be. Wars not make one great, but idle farming not make one a warrior. Destroying remote droid armies, too easy it is. More challenges you must seek, before fully trained you can call yourselves.
Glory... heh. The excitement... heh. Adventure... heh. A Jedi craves not these things. YOU are RECKLESS, master Tagaris. When one is too sure of himself, he invites weakness, arrogance, and the wrath of the Cow made of Tin. But complain, should we? This master of evil, doing only what he does best, he is. Once a Jedi was he, powerful Jedi. Chosen the dark side, he has.
Prepare ourselves for the coming storm, we must.
:yoda:
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 14:55
Tristan,
Actions have consequences...
People wanted to run out and exploit the awesomeness of the RBG unit, and the stupidity of the AI sally mechanic, and grab some easy provinces.
So, TC has shown us that, that tactic is still allowed, but you might very well face an angry rebel full stack for your troubles.
Furthermore, you wanted to play a loner. You consistently did things to set yourself apart from the group and you rejected any offer to bring you into the group. While this is certainly your right, you can't be surprised when you get pretty much abandoned when the going gets tough.
With TC as GM, I have a feeling this game will become a learning exercise of "you reap what you sow."
None of this is criticism. But I just want you to know that you put yourself where your at.
AussieGiant
07-03-2008, 14:56
Tristan, you made the right decision...a key aspect in any general's success.
The point of TC's events are to ask these questions of us, and see how people want to react.
Face with the situation, you did admirably and it benefited the Empire as a whole.
Standard Officer training is to run through scenario’s like this and test the cognisant abilities of the people involved to see if they can react to a variety of situations.
One of those situations is inevitably the "impossible one". Why, because you can't know what the world will throw at you...but how 'you' handle it is "knowable".
Hell, you made 10 grand out of an impossible situation...I'd say you past with flying colours my friend.
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 14:58
Hell, you made 10 grand out of an impossible situation...I'd say you past with flying colours my friend.
Exactly. And the 10 grand will help others be saved. Something you can (and should) bring up IC. :yes:
AussieGiant
07-03-2008, 14:59
And yes, ATPG, got my obscure reference.
Reading Yoda's impressive knowledge puts it all into perspective. :balloon2:
AussieGiant
07-03-2008, 15:00
Exactly. And the 10 grand will help others be saved. Something you can (and should) bring up IC. :yes:
That's a 10-4 rubber ducky...I'd be pounding that little point IC as far as my little brain would take it.
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 15:02
That's a 10-4 rubber ducky...I'd be pounding that little point IC as far as my little brain would take it.
Methodios gave up his chance at personal glory to help save the Empire in it's time of need even though the Empire abandoned him.
The story practically writes itself... :beam:
*edit*
(and why do I always have to be "rubber ducky"? Can't I be "fierce badger"?)
:clown:
LOL, which faction paid 10k for a city they'll lose almost immediately? (I haven't looked at the save yet.)
Ibn-Khaldun
07-03-2008, 15:07
Hungarians
:clown:
Ituralde
07-03-2008, 15:07
The Hungarians! It's all in the Chance... Megas Logothetes' Report. :beam:
Askthepizzaguy
07-03-2008, 15:11
BAH!
if I were desigining the diplomacy AI, the opposing factions would ALWAYS demand concessions in diplomacy. It would still work, but every deal would be a losing one for you.
Trade rights? Sure. Pay us 500 florins for 10 turns.
Map rights? Sure. Pay us 1200 florins.
Alliance? Sure. Declare war on all your neighboring factions and the Pope while I mass armies on your border.
Vassalage? Sure, I will be your vassal. But you have to give me half your territory.
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 15:11
Exactly. And the 10 grand will help others be saved.
Help how ? By recruiting hordes of peasants ?
Because that's the extent of our recruitment capabilities at the moment... :wall:
Something you can (and should) bring up IC. :yes:
Don't worry you haven't finished hearing about this "sacrifice" :laugh4:
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 15:13
Help how ? By recruiting hordes of peasants ?
Antioch can build spears...
That and mercs can be hired.
So, simply remind everyone that all of those charges of "selfishness" leveled against Methodios need to be looked at, in a new light. ^_^
AussieGiant
07-03-2008, 15:14
PK, you are "Rubber Ducky" there is no escaping that call sign now :balloon2:
TC...dude, mate, fella, hombre, pisan...stay up with the program there...it's in the FD report.
10G's coming our way courtesy of the 'Zagreb incident'.
At least that's what they're calling back on the street in Constantinople. The home boy's got himself some street cred with the posse back home. The crib's pumped, the parties have started and I've just ordered the "ENTERRR...TAINMENT".
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 15:15
PK, you are "Rubber Ducky" there is no escaping that call sign now :balloon2:
I :daisy:ing hate you...
:clown:
if I were desigining the diplomacy AI, the opposing factions would ALWAYS demand concessions in diplomacy.
You have a lot of experience with hotseat games, so perhaps you can enlighten me as to my options on the diplomatic front. Since I can take control of AI factions whenever I need to, I can control their diplomats as well. Is there some way it would be possible for me to either specify the deal the AI would offer, or force it to accept a deal offered by our faction? If so, I could solve all TW diplomacy problems instantly by simply making the decisions for them in a far more realistic and rational manner.
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 15:18
You have a lot of experience with hotseat games, so perhaps you can enlighten me as to my options on the diplomatic front. Since I can take control of AI factions whenever I need to, I can control their diplomats as well. Is there some way it would be possible for me to either specify the deal the AI would offer, or force it to accept a deal offered by our faction? If so, I could solve all TW diplomacy problems instantly by simply making the decisions for them in a far more realistic and rational manner.
As far as I know.
In the hotseats, one person sends a diplo message, the other then gets it at the start of their turn.
We have found bugs with it from time to time. It doesn't always work how you expect it.
Can you clarify the bugs?
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 15:21
Can you clarify the bugs?
Those were after I left.
You'd have to ask the current hotseat guys. Like Ramses, Tristan, Zim, and them.
But I remember reading that they were having trouble in one of the GC Hotseats.
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 15:26
Actions have consequences....
That i know all too well, believe me...
People wanted to run out and exploit the awesomeness of the RBG unit.
Having never played SS before the start of LotR I truly didn't know what to expect before Durazzo... Seeing how easy it had been whetted my appetite...
Furthermore, you wanted to play a loner. You consistently did things to set yourself apart from the group and you rejected any offer to bring you into the group. While this is certainly your right, you can't be surprised when you get pretty much abandoned when the going gets tough..
I didn't especially want to play a loner... At the start, I even joined Asteri before the influx of Dread avatars drove me out... No other House had much appeal to me except for the Order but the strictures just do not fit the way I want to play my avatar...
None of this is criticism. But I just want you to know that you put yourself where your at.
That I know full well but that is considering I could have had some inkling of what would happen as a consequence of my actions, something which was totally out of anybody's grasp (except TC...)
Tristan, you made the right decision...a key aspect in any general's success.
Hell, you made 10 grand out of an impossible situation...I'd say you past with flying colours my friend.
Thanks...
AussieGiant
07-03-2008, 15:30
I :daisy:ing hate you...
:clown:
LMAO
Roger that.
Rubber Ducky.
:clown:
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 15:34
As to Diplomacy bugs, there are relatively few... Most of those I encountered were in BC when offers where did not always appear at the receiving faction's end...
The problem as I see it here is that you would have to have control of all the factions at all times so that the Megas would never know if his diplomacy was successful or not before the AI turn came on (with you at the controls)... And that is not too much of a problem seeing how you can always add new Player-controlled faction to a hotseat game...
Thus diplomacy with a faction could well last a complete Megas' term : offer making way to counter-offers and so on...
This would open whole new avenues of diplomacy and make the Megas diplomatic life an ordeal :laugh4:
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 15:34
I didn't especially want to play a loner... At the start, I even joined Asteri before the influx of Dread avatars drove me out... No other House had much appeal to me except for the Order but the strictures just do not fit the way I want to play my avatar...
I have learned the hard way these games are all about personal interaction. If you can get other characters to care about your character, you will do fine. If you can't, you will have a harder time at things.
That I know full well but that is considering I could have had some inkling of what would happen as a consequence of my actions, something which was totally out of anybody's grasp (except TC...)
During the cataclysm, we all learned that TC will make sure you pay for what you do. :laugh4:
Since he's GM now, expect much more of this...
LMAO
Roger that.
Rubber Ducky.
:clown:
I want you to die... :brood:
:clown:
As to Diplomacy bugs, there are relatively few... Most of those I encountered were in BC when offers where did not always appear at the receiving faction's end...
The problem as I see it here is that you would have to have control of all the factions at all times so that the Megas would never know if his diplomacy was successful or not before the AI turn came on (with you at the controls)... And that is not too much of a problem seeing how you can always add new Player-controlled faction to a hotseat game...
Thus diplomacy with a faction could well last a complete Megas' term : offer making way to counter-offers and so on...
This would open whole new avenues of diplomacy and make the Megas diplomatic life an ordeal :laugh4:
That doesn't sound too bad. Regarding diplomacy, I'm thinking of proposing an OOC Amendment at the next session which will allow me to do this. I don't want to control all diplomacy all the time, I just want to have the option to take control if there are 'important' negotiations to be done. If a Megas cannot get the AI to agree to some kind of deal, he would be able to petition me to negotiate on their behalf. I'd take a look at the in-game situation and negotiate back and forth with the Megas in an IC manner. If we agreed to a deal, I would take control of the AI faction and have them propose that exact deal with their diplomat, the Megas would then accept and it would be done. There would be no in-game counteroffers nor would I do this for every situation. Just whenever the Megas wants me to RP the AI faction, and even then I would only do it if we were able to reach a deal (which might not always be possible - I can be a ruthless SOB).
Ramses II CP
07-03-2008, 15:59
The only really painful bugs we have encountered have been lost diplomatic offers between players... however, as there are really only two 'players' at any one time in LotR it shouldn't be too difficult to run the situation back and try the offer again, as long as the offer is made at the end point of the process. In a hotseat you have 10 people so if there are 5 between when you make the offer and when it fails to appear they aren't going to offer to replay their turns.
There are also, IMHO, certain consequences to the save/reload system in a hotseat, for example AI passivity and the loss of those starting scrolls. If you aren't the first player in order for each new year of a hotseat you almost certainly won't get any info scrolls.
:egypt:
_Tristan_
07-03-2008, 16:16
The only really painful bugs we have encountered have been lost diplomatic offers between players... however, as there are really only two 'players' at any one time in LotR it shouldn't be too difficult to run the situation back and try the offer again, as long as the offer is made at the end point of the process. In a hotseat you have 10 people so if there are 5 between when you make the offer and when it fails to appear they aren't going to offer to replay their turns.
There are also, IMHO, certain consequences to the save/reload system in a hotseat, for example AI passivity and the loss of those starting scrolls. If you aren't the first player in order for each new year of a hotseat you almost certainly won't get any info scrolls.
:egypt:
Yes but this shouldn't happen as we would always be the first faction... So there should be no loss of the starting scrolls...
As for AI passivity due to save/reload in hotseat, I never noticed any...
I must admit I'm all for an CA about this : it would take out some of the bigger exploit of the game (no more Pope tribute to get on is good side, though as Orthodox we don't care as much...), possibilities to get vassals out of factions nearing extinction, no more 10k purse for a single town (:laugh4:)...
I can't see any drawbacks at this point...
Any idea when my army will be finished FLYdude? I wanna kill some Turks :clown:
Getting the war declared on the Turks and satisfying that Edict will be tricky. After this whole rebellion fiasco, Mark will not declare war without a proper army ready to march on Iconium. Since most of the rebels are in the north, I imagine most of the recruitment will initially be sank there, and when they are destroyed it will be a mighty scramble to the other side of the Empire to assemble a war army and declare a war before the 10 turns are up.
A little thanks to Methodios for his participation in the war effort would have been kind...
Well, except for the part about the save, the report was written with an IC outlook, so don't expect Tagaris to be shown in too positive a light. I did thank the Hungarians, though... :laugh4:
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 23:05
Getting the war declared on the Turks and satisfying that Edict will be tricky. After this whole rebellion fiasco, Mark will not declare war without a proper army ready to march on Iconium. Since most of the rebels are in the north, I imagine most of the recruitment will initially be sank there, and when they are destroyed it will be a mighty scramble to the other side of the Empire to assemble a war army and declare a war before the 10 turns are up.
Yeah but doesn't all recruitment have to go to EF's and degeurra's army's first? Then IC you guys can all fight over where they are supposed to go. It doesn't matter that there is a rebellion all over the Empire. Those armies need building unless the owners agree to forgo it. Ah, the joy of being Megas...
:clown:
That's what I thought, I couldn't find that anywhere in the rules though...
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 23:09
That's what I thought, I couldn't find that anywhere in the rules though...
4.3 – Army Replenishment: If a Private or Royal Army falls below the minimum strength level, all military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Army to minimum strength before money can be spent on other recruitment, unless the owner agrees otherwise. In the event of a conflict, a Royal Army takes priority over a Private Army. This rule does not apply to armies involved in a Civil War.
So, it doesn't matter that the Empire is burning. Those armies need filling!
(unless EF and/or deguerra agree to have their armies be skipped for the time being for the good of the Empire...)
Ah thanks, okay I do not agree otherwise. Let them burn :evilgrin:
Privateerkev
07-03-2008, 23:15
Ah thanks, okay I do not agree otherwise. Let them burn :evilgrin:
Thats the spirit!
I am so glad to see that this event is helping us to come together... :clown:
They are. They'll get recruited in the west, pass by some rebels, and then be taken to the private armies for which they are intended. I'll bring them personally, and they'll have combat experience. Do you want green troops? I thought not...
Cecil XIX
07-03-2008, 23:21
Bah, Armatos goes out for a leisurely stroll and the Pagan Magicians are waiting for him at the gate. FLYdude, could you please get rid of him?
Bah, Armatos goes out for a leisurely stroll and the Pagan Magicians are waiting for him at the gate. FLYdude, could you please get rid of him?
Will do.
Ignoramus
07-04-2008, 01:07
To be honest, I didn't like how the Lemongate's avatar was rescued by TC. This is a war game. If you forget to move your avatar you should suffer the consequences. If people's avatars get rescued just because they aren't online, then it doesn't encourage people to take a more active role in the game.
Privateerkev
07-04-2008, 01:12
To be honest, I didn't like how the Lemongate's avatar was rescued by TC. This is a war game. If you forget to move your avatar you should suffer the consequences. If people's avatars get rescued just because they aren't online, then it doesn't encourage people to take a more active role in the game.
He didn't forget. He hasn't been online since before the save was active. And he did try to take the save when voting was still going on.
I'm all for people suffering IC consequences for their IC actions but this seemed more like an OOC thing. So, I think TC saving him was the right thing to do IMHO.
BananaBob
07-04-2008, 01:52
It has justed dawned on me the significance of TC commanding the Mongols.
Privateerkev
07-04-2008, 01:54
It has justed dawned on me the significance of TC commanding the Mongols.
be afraid...
be very afraid...
Cecil XIX
07-04-2008, 01:58
It has justed dawned on me the significance of TC commanding the Mongols.
:gah2:
Privateerkev
07-04-2008, 02:03
wait till it's the Timurids...
TC with Panzerphaunts...
:hide:
wait till it's the Timurids...
TC with Panzerphaunts...
:hide:
You think Elephants are the best I can do? Silly man, you do not know how devious I can be. My darkest plans will make the Cataclysm look like paradise. Do not fret, though, for that is a long, long way off. Probably not in 2008.
Privateerkev
07-04-2008, 02:20
You think Elephants are the best I can do? Silly man, you do not know how devious I can be. My darkest plans will make the Cataclysm look like paradise. Do not fret, though, for that is a long, long way off. Probably not in 2008.
worse than elephants!?!
o_O
I think I'll just wet myself now ahead of time...
To be honest, I didn't like how the Lemongate's avatar was rescued by TC. This is a war game. If you forget to move your avatar you should suffer the consequences. If people's avatars get rescued just because they aren't online, then it doesn't encourage people to take a more active role in the game.
I would not have done that for any other situation. If it was the AI moving on its own or PvP of any kind, TLG would have been dead in the water. This was a different scenario where my direct actions were threatening his death. He had no warning whatsoever and could not possibly have known the danger he would be in before I started the Event. Since then, he has not been online and could not see what I had done. Under the circumstances, it seemed very unfair to me to simply kill him because of actions I committed. You have my word that this is the exception, not the rule. I will not be bailing people out of bad situations unless it is in very similar circumstances where I am exclusively responsible for the situation and they have no had a chance to respond.
For the record, I very much appreciate all the comments and criticisms that have emerged lately. Please do not feel like you need to blow sunshine up my arse. I realized a couple weeks ago that what this game really needed was a dedicated 'DM' and so I've shifted my role entirely in that direction since that time. I think it's working much better this way, but at the same time nothing like this has ever been done before, so there is a lot of room for error. I need to hear what I am doing right and what I am doing wrong in order to make this game live up to its full potential.
Forgive the multiple posts, I'm into my second bottle of wine and my thought process is slightly disjointed.
Cecil XIX
07-04-2008, 02:32
Forgive the multiple posts, I'm into my second bottle of wine and my thought process is slightly disjointed.
So I take it you're making all the important DM decisions right now? :beam:
Northnovas
07-04-2008, 03:29
So I take it you're making all the important DM decisions right now? :beam:
Isn't that when the best gaming decisions are made after a couple pints, bottles ...... ~:joker:
Privateerkev
07-04-2008, 03:33
Some of my best IC PM's have come about with the aid of some Guinness...
:beam:
Askthepizzaguy
07-04-2008, 04:01
What should frighten the ever living fecal matter out of all of you is not TinCow's eventual control over the Mongrels or the Timids, not spawned stacks of gold demons, not his total and merciless control over the game itself or even his apparent drinking problem...
no, my friends... there is something much more frightening here...
I, askthepizzaguy, never drink alcohol or do drugs of any kind.
Remember all that innuendo? Remember my clownish behavior? Remember my duel as Sindh versus the Ayyubids? Remember Oman versus Jerusalem? Remember my user page and all the nonsense on there, and the entirety of my posts on this forum to date?
If this is what I am like without the effects of such things, then I am truly batsh*t insane.
Pleasant dreams, fools....
Muahahahahaha!!!!
AussieGiant
07-04-2008, 08:50
What should frighten the ever living fecal matter out of all of you is not TinCow's eventual control over the Mongrels or the Timids, not spawned stacks of gold demons, not his total and merciless control over the game itself or even his apparent drinking problem...
no, my friends... there is something much more frightening here...
I, askthepizzaguy, never drink alcohol or do drugs of any kind.
Remember all that innuendo? Remember my clownish behavior? Remember my duel as Sindh versus the Ayyubids? Remember Oman versus Jerusalem? Remember my user page and all the nonsense on there, and the entirety of my posts on this forum to date?
If this is what I am like without the effects of such things, then I am truly batsh*t insane.
Pleasant dreams, fools....
Muahahahahaha!!!!
Stop showing off ATPG!! :clown:
Ituralde
07-04-2008, 08:54
Nice battle reports everybody! :2thumbsup:
And Privateerkev with a little less modesty you could have dressed up your battle as the best working feigned-retreat tactic ever! Not even your own men knew that they were just feigning the retreat! Most convincing! :beam:
I am having a rather extreme problem of getting my hands on a working copy of the 1.3 patch. I Reinstalled windows, so I am reinstalling everything else as well, and now I'm stuck at this patch...
_Tristan_
07-04-2008, 13:37
You can download Patch 1.3 by following this link :
http://www.totalwar.com/us/support/supportmedievalii.html
or this one :
http://help.sega.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=211&nav=0,1,19
Hope that helps
Privateerkev
07-04-2008, 17:33
And Privateerkev with a little less modesty you could have dressed up your battle as the best working feigned-retreat tactic ever! Not even your own men knew that they were just feigning the retreat! Most convincing! :beam:
I was being modest because it really was unplanned. I greatly underestimated the effects of the various moral penalties my army was under. The entire army turned and ran away at first sight of the enemy.
So, I was left there with 6 bodyguard units versus 1500 of the enemy. The only thing that saved me is that the stupid AI ran after my fleeing army, and ignored my bodyguard units. Even then, I came pretty close to losing a few avatars.
When you only have one or two bodyguard units, you can micromanage and make sure neither is engaged in heavy combat at any one time. But with 6, there is always at least 1 that is pretty much just grinding away versus infantry. YLC's avatar got mobbed by hundreds of guys and it was only a lucky timed charge by 4 other units that saved him.
:sweatdrop:
(and now people know why every single bodyguard unit in that battle gained 2 or 3 experience chevrons...)
BananaBob
07-04-2008, 23:16
Uhhh, we have a problem...
I don't know if this is in good taste or whatever, but I kept pressing the 'next turn' button to see when the armies will become fully supplied... its was 30 years latter with PrivanteerKev on the verge of being an old man and the armies are not supplied. The pneumonia went away after 18 years however... what do we do?
Ramses II CP
07-04-2008, 23:25
Split the army into two stacks, one captain led (Where there are no penalties) and one only generals (Where the jedi-ness vastly overcomes the penalties). You can call the captain led stack as reinforcements and avoid the penalty I believe. The same exploit everyone uses to get around the absurd supply system, well, until you get tired of it and just switch to all captain armies. :laugh4:
Don't mind me, I've been griping about the supply thing since we picked SS. :smash:
:egypt:
If anyone knows how to remove it you get my vote. I tried to warn you guys before we started :clown:
I'll take a look at the trait triggers later this weekend and report back. It might have something to do with there being so many avatars in one city.
BananaBob
07-04-2008, 23:37
The immersion of a ridiculous and horrible trait system adds SOOOO much to role playing though!
...
...
:shame:
If anyone knows how to remove it you get my vote. I tried to warn you guys before we started :clown:
Don't look at me, I voted against SS.
:sweatdrop:
Ituralde
07-05-2008, 00:17
I'm personally a big fan of the supply system in SS. I know that you can avoid it by using Captain lead armies but that's taking all the fun out of it, if you ask me. Sucks though when you encounter that problem like the Order did.
So fine it worked good for me, and I have to agree with TinCow that I suspect it to be a bug that stems from so many bodyguards being in one army, each of them carrying along his own supply system.
Well never was a good idea to bunch up that many men in one place, all choosing to abstain from marriage. :clown:
AH! They got me. I used the :clown: smiley. After resisting for soo long! :angry:
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 00:17
I agree with Ramses. We'll do a general stack and an army stack. We'll send them to another province and take it.
NN said the army supplies when you move into another friendly territory because it forages.
So, once we have neighboring friendly territories, we'll be able to walk the armies back and forth for supplies.
Those 6 avatars, even with their massive supply penalties, still ravaged a whole field army, almost by themselves.
We'll find a way through it. It might be a little 'gamey' but I don't see any other way, except sitting in the city for 2 whole terms.
As much as some people would love to see that IC, it doesn't sound very fun.
Ignoramus
07-05-2008, 01:34
I would be very annoyed if the supply system goes. It may be a pain, but it does reflect some basic aspects of warfare. The Order went an besieged Antioch for about 8 years without any friendly territory on the mainland. They should suffer the penalties which would happen in real life. I think that the trait system adequately reflects the importance of supplying your men.
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 01:50
I would be very annoyed if the supply system goes. It may be a pain, but it does reflect some basic aspects of warfare. The Order went an besieged Antioch for about 8 years without any friendly territory on the mainland. They should suffer the penalties which would happen in real life. I think that the trait system adequately reflects the importance of supplying your men.
But there is a point where it becomes absolutely absurd.
Plus, TF's new avatar is fully supplied so we'll just use him to get around it. :beam:
(The AI makes him the commanding general anyways.)
Armatos still has the Pagan Magician with him.
The Megas Logothetes... is forgetful.
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 01:59
The Megas Logothetes... is forgetful.
yes, but the player shouldn't be... :beam:
I know the Megas hates the Order, but retinue destruction is an OOC act.
:clown:
Askthepizzaguy
07-05-2008, 01:59
I don't understand where all these pagan magicians come from. Almost every general I have ever had in all of the M2 games I've played has been stapled to a pagan magician.
Seems like there's an army of pagan magicians out there spying on everyone.
Okay, this is going to sound rather, err, starnge to say the least, but every single 1.3 update I attempt to use seems corrupt. Honestly, what the :daisy:ing heck is going on? Isn't it statistically impossible to have every last download be corrupt? I'm not even using a downloader, just the one inherent in firefox...I'm trying something else now...see how it turns out, but I'm out of ideas...
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 02:20
If you have Kingdoms, it has 1.3 inside of it and will automatically update you. If you don't have Kingdoms, you could consider buying it. (if you want it that is) It is pretty cool in it's own right.
Without installing it? Or will SS4.1 work within a Kingdoms? I do have Kingdoms BTW.
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 02:27
Without installing it? Or will SS4.1 work within a Kingdoms? I do have Kingdoms BTW.
SS 4.1 will work just fine with Kingdoms. It has for me anyways. Load Kingdoms and it will put 1.3 in there for you.
For the record, I do not want to get rid of the supply system. I very much like it. I am, however, open to tweaking it a bit to better suit our purposes, like FH did with the vanilla trait system in KOTR. Like I said, I'll take a look at the trait files some time and see what the exact cause is. If it seems ridiculous or buggy, we can modify it via a new version of LotRmod. I would personally also like to kill the Unwatched by the King line of traits.
We can have an OOC discussion about this throughout this term. If it looks like the majority want a few tweaks done here or there, we can vote on it via an OOC Amendment at the next Senate session.
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 03:57
I wouldn't mind the supply system being tweaked. Sitting in a city for a few turns is cool. Having to sit in a city for 20-30 turns is not so cool.
I personally love the unwatched by the king traits because they definitely fit my character at the moment. But I can see why others don't like it and would support getting rid of it.
Also, I wouldn't mind tweaking the sickness traits. Though having an avatar that has been afflicted with the dreaded 30 year pneumonia might have made me biased... :clown:
Askthepizzaguy
07-05-2008, 04:00
Some of us have enough loyalty problems already without the unwatched by king trait...
I shudder to think how low my loyalty currently may be.
Again I want to point out that I will remove any of the Unwatched by the King line traits manually. I have already done this for Northnovas. You just need to let me know you want it done.
Cecil XIX
07-05-2008, 05:44
I agree with Ignoramus, though I wouldn't object to a more 'gamey' solution as suggested by Ramses and PK.
It's odd though, as I remember going through the supply traits and seeing something that indicated more than fifty percent of the settlements population has to have the same religion as the faction before supplies can be recovered. I'll take another look.
Of course, if we're thinking of changing the system than maybe we could import EB's supply system.
EDIT:
Okay, here are the triggers I was thinking of.
;------------------------------------------
Trigger SupplyGet
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
Condition IsGeneral
and EndedInSettlement
and PopulationOwnReligion > 50
and CharacterIsLocal
and Trait Supplies > 1
Affects SuppliesAdded 2 Chance 100
Affects Supplies 1 Chance 100
;In settlement, with own 50% religious land and with supplies reduced. Resupply 1/4
;------------------------------------------
Trigger SupplyGet2
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
Condition IsGeneral
and EndedInSettlement
and PopulationOwnReligion > 50
and CharacterIsLocal
and Trait Supplies > 1
Affects SuppliesAdded 2 Chance 100
Affects Supplies 1 Chance 100
;In settlement, with own 50% religious land and with supplies reduced. Resupply another 1/4 if needed to fully a half
'Supplies' is self-explanatory, but what you might not know is that the more points you get in supplies, the less supplies your character actually has. (That's why one of the trigges is 'Trait Supplies > 1') In order to regain supplies, you need points in 'SuppliesAdded', which is an antitrait of 'Supplies'. Thus, since both traits say that they give two points in 'SuppliesAdded' and one point in 'Supplies', the net result is one point gained in 'SuppliesAdded'. (Which is one it says it resupplies by 1/4, since one extra point in 'Supplies' means you loose a quarter of your supplies'.
Although, I have no idea why there are two seemingly identical traits, and why it gives two traits which are antitraits. In anycase, we could also resupply by sea.
EDIT2: Now that I think about, Makedonias should have gained extra supplies by winning that battle.
;------------------------------------------
Trigger CapturedSupplies
WhenToTest PostBattle
Condition IsGeneral
and CharacterIsLocal
and WonBattle
and PercentageEnemyKilled > 50
and Trait Supplies > 1
Affects SuppliesAdded 2 Chance 100
Affects Supplies 1 Chance 100
;supplies won after a battle adds 1/4 back to stockif room and if 50% enemy killed (so no reward for retreating enemy)
;------------------------------------------
Trigger CapturedSupplies2
WhenToTest PostBattle
Condition IsGeneral
and CharacterIsLocal
and WonBattle
and PercentageEnemyKilled > 50
and Trait Supplies > 1
Affects SuppliesAdded 2 Chance 100
Affects Supplies 1 Chance 100
and PopulationOwnReligion > 50
If Antioch is not 50% Orthodox, that would seem to explain the problem.
Ibn-Khaldun
07-05-2008, 16:05
If so .. then sending some priest to the Seljuk lands before the armies is a good idea or we will all have the same problems as they have in Antioch :clown:
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 17:05
That makes the IC politics of priest recruitment and management all the more interesting...
Ibn-Khaldun
07-05-2008, 17:14
Exactly and because from now on there are only islam and catholic region surrounding the Empire then ... fun fun fun :yes:
:clown:
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 17:23
How about an OOC or IC amendment that allows a character to seize a priest built in their province once they reach a certain rank.
Priest agents just became a whole lot more important...
AussieGiant
07-05-2008, 17:27
*yawn*
Ibn-Khaldun
07-05-2008, 17:47
How about an OOC or IC amendment that allows a character to seize a priest built in their province once they reach a certain rank.
Priest agents just became a whole lot more important...
This sounds a good idea :idea2:
Perhaps the Lords/Grandmasters of the Houses can recruit one priest and control them??
Or..
GeneralHankerchief being the Patriarch can have the power to recruit and to control ALL the Priests in the Empire?? This would make his position much more important ..
GeneralHankerchief
07-05-2008, 17:55
Don't worry about me, I have much power in other areas... :evilgrin:
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 17:59
*yawn*
What's the matter AG?
Didn't get enough sleep last night?
Of course, when I yawn, I usually just yawn. I don't take the time to spell it out.
I feel like I just watched that scene in the Holy Grail with Castle Arghhhhhhhhh.....
:clown:
AussieGiant
07-05-2008, 18:02
What's the matter AG?
Didn't get enough sleep last night?
Of course, when I yawn, I usually just yawn. I don't take the time to spell it out.
I feel like I just watched that scene in the Holy Grail with Castle Arghhhhhhhhh.....
:clown:
:beam:
It's a little dull here on the weekends.
*stretch*
*yawn*
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 18:08
:beam:
It's a little dull here on the weekends.
*stretch*
*yawn*
And here I thought you were yawning at my priest proposal. I know it wasn't exactly the most exciting micromanagement legislation we have come up with but... ;)
Yeah, there is not much to do when your waiting for the 24 hour "free save" period to run out.
Ibn-Khaldun
07-05-2008, 19:31
Don't worry about me, I have much power in other areas... :evilgrin:
Why does it make me feel uncomfortably?? :inquisitive:
AussieGiant
07-05-2008, 19:42
Don't worry about me, I have much power in other areas... :evilgrin:
Now that is just plain disturbing.
Between TC as the GM and GH as some mad religious 'nutjob', I've got a serious set of issues developing in my mind.
OverKnight
07-05-2008, 20:02
We could always "veto" the Patriarch, Heinrich style. :evilgrin:
Part of me would do it just for the irony.
Ibn-Khaldun
07-05-2008, 20:17
Just one question .. in Constantinople I could retrain my avatar but is it allowed??:embarassed:
EDIT: There is that Horsebreaders Guild building and I could get 1 chevron after retraining my avatar..
_Tristan_
07-05-2008, 20:54
Just ask the Megas... If you get on his good side, he might just allow it...
AussieGiant
07-05-2008, 21:09
We could always "veto" the Patriarch, Heinrich style. :evilgrin:
Part of me would do it just for the irony.
I'd buy that move for a dollar!! :beam:
Cecil XIX
07-05-2008, 21:46
Hey Tristan, who was your adopted father in the MoH? (IIRC there's just Kosmas and Ioannis) I'd assume it's up to him whether or not you are accepted.
Kosmas Mavrozomis was the adopter, and Zim told me that it makes no sense IC, in that Tagaris is not liked by Mavrozomis in any sense.
Just wanted to say I had no OOC objections to the adoption. I don't think Kosmas and Methodios actively dislike eachother, but they've had a couple of small run-ins and almost opposite stats. I couldn't think of IC reasons for Kosmas to adopt Methodios.
Sorry Tristan. :bow:
OverKnight
07-05-2008, 22:20
The MoH offer brings up a few issues. While FLYdude is correct that he has the authority to deal with it because it's not in the rules, for most avatars a MoH is the only way to enter the family tree and have a chance to procreate (however unlikely since we have so many avatars versus number of territories).
The only family members, until Andronikus and Isaac pop up, that have "open" family slots are Ioannis and Kosmas. Each RGB adopted by them takes up a space that could possibly be filled by a "biological" child (again with the caveat that this is unlikely because of the territory to avatar ratio).
So personally I want to see RGBs integrated into the family tree, but I don't want them occupying all the available slots either, because I would like to see the Komnenoi line continue.
Is there any way we can balance this out in a non-clunky fashion that wouldn't slow the game? Seeking permission from the adopter, while realistic, could slow gameplay. Leaving it up to the Megas, while quick, seems a bit hit or miss.
Personally, even if a MoH is accepted into the tree, I don't think we have to justify IC which avatar he appears under, unless both parties wish to do so. We're not stressing the family tree that much in this game. I view it that the avatar has gained enough power or influence to be start being one of the "dynastic families" in the Empire, where he or his progeny could be considered for the Throne. Though OOC, as I've said, we shouldn't foist adoptees on people so as to block all their kid slots.
Thoughts?
I have to admit being surprised when I was asked whether the adoption should go through, but I can see the reasons for letting the adopter have a choice. Even if the adopter has open slots the adoption makes it less likely he will have children. But more importantly (from an rping perspective) to me is that any really good player (heck, even a mediocre one like me. :clown: ) could arrange heroic victory after heroic victory until they get a MOTH offer. Battles where 200 defeat 1500 should be rare occurences.
I'm not sure what kind of compromise would work best, although I can see why whether generals make it into the family tree should depend on more than the whims of a relatively few current fms.
Privateerkev
07-05-2008, 22:37
This is probably one of those things we should have ironed out in the initial rules discussion but we didn't so the sooner we figure it out, the better.
1.) We need to figure out if we want MOH's and adoptions decided OOC or IC. Do we as players want the game and family tree to have a certain amount of importance?
2.) If we decide that it should be decided IC, who does it? Does it fall to the Emperor since it's his dynasty? Does it fall to the Megas since it has to do with playing the actual game? Does it have to do with the "adopter", since it takes up a kid slot?
It seems we have competing interests here.
The Emperor wants some control over the dynasty, as well as who is eligible to continue that dynasty. By putting someone on the tree, your making it possible for them to become the heir to the throne.
The Megas wants control over a process that comes up automatically at the beginning of a turn. To have them ask permission all the time slows things down.
RBG's want on the tree. The tree means kids and possible "heirship" if enough family members die.
People already on the family tree might not want more people on the family tree. Each extra person on the tree is one more that competes with them for the Caesar title.
So, we need to decide as players how we want this decided. Then, the characters have to act within those parameters and decide what to do.
Vote: IC choice of the adopter.
OverKnight
07-06-2008, 08:18
And lo with the announcement of the Engagement, Civil War consumed the land as Senator fought Senator for the treasured hand of Helen of Tro. . .Anna Komnenus.
Maybe we should all head over to Illium and settle this. :laugh4:
Askthepizzaguy
07-06-2008, 08:24
At this point, I would like the IC "Senator Efstratios" to cease to exist in the Senate, so that I can write the backstory leading up to this point, where he ditches his duties following the news of Anna's betrothal.
I will continue to vote, as TheFlax and GH did, as some anonymous senator.
If this is all right with everyone, good. If not, well.... he'll be dead in a few turns, at this rate, anyway... how the years fly by...
And lo with the announcement of the Engagement, Civil War consumed the land as Senator fought Senator for the treasured hand of Helen of Tro. . .Anna Komnenus.
Maybe we should all head over to Illium and settle this.
Can I be Achilles? I'm a very anger-prone person... :laugh4:
Ituralde
07-06-2008, 10:07
Just a quick note that I'm having a rather busy weekend so I don't know how long the Emergency Diet Session will last, but I probably won't read it in it's entirety before Monday!
Just from reading here, I'd prefer a stance similar to that of Overknights suggestion. Just if anyone's interested.
See you later!
Ituralde
I'm gonna be going on holiday for a week tomorrow, and wont have any internet. I'll change my Status posts to let deguerra take control of Hypatios.
_Tristan_
07-06-2008, 16:31
Happy holidays, EF !!!
And is it me or I am being slighted because I'm French...
If there's a f*** up, blame the French...
:clown:
AussieGiant
07-06-2008, 16:43
Happy holidays, EF !!!
And is it me or I am being slighted because I'm French...
If there's a f*** up, blame the French...
:clown:
LOL...pretty funny.
So, sure lets blame the Frenchman. Everyone's happy then. :2thumbsup:
_Tristan_
07-06-2008, 17:10
@ AG : I saw you yawning at the beginning of the week-end so I thought I'll do something to relieve the boredom...
Was I successful ? ~;)
AussieGiant
07-06-2008, 17:14
@ AG : I saw you yawning at the beginning of the week-end so I thought I'll do something to relieve the boredom...
Was I successful ? ~;)
Very!!! LOL
Just when I thought it was safe to go and play Call of Duty for the whole weekend you came in with a cracker of an issue.
You should have just taken MotH and run with it as you said. Then we could have worked out the details later...still, doing the right thing is the best idea in the long run.
As I mentioned. I think you should get to choose now and then we can put the rule in afterward. Retrospective rules, like taxes, suck BIG time!!
edit
Just wildly off topic. I've started playing a SS 4.1 Byzantium long campaign...and I married some clown the the old daughter...of course the Komnenos line was in jeopardy until I managed to get him hit by a flaming trebuchet shot...now I'm trying to get the second kid, a son married. He's the faction heir and for the life of me I don't understand how I can't get him married.
I've seen princesses running around over the place and I'm sending out diplomats as fast as I can, I want him to marry into another nation if I can.
Help?
_Tristan_
07-06-2008, 17:24
Last I remember, a diplomat shoudl get an option to marry princess with faction heir when initiating talks with the said princess...
If he doesn't, then I'm at a loss...
As I mentioned. I think you should get to choose now and then we can put the rule in afterward. Retrospective rules, like taxes, suck BIG time!!
I'm with you 100%... I can't help but feel it is directed against me...
There will always good IC justifications for/against... So that doesn't have to be taken into consideration...
Frankly, being denied would kill something about this game for me...
Privateerkev
07-06-2008, 17:35
I hope this rule is not being spurred by people's IC feelings towards Methodios.
It should be an OOC decision. (since it is an OOC amendment.)
Your character might feel differently but remember, situations change. We should decide now what is best for the game as a whole. Not what is best for our character's short term political situation.
As such, I am voting for the OOC amendment as Kevin. And, again, I hope the Order players vote as themselves without regard to IC feelings about Methodios.
This issue is bigger than Methodios.
AussieGiant
07-06-2008, 17:51
Last I remember, a diplomat shoudl get an option to marry princess with faction heir when initiating talks with the said princess...
If he doesn't, then I'm at a loss...
I'm with you 100%... I can't help but feel it is directed against me...
There will always good IC justifications for/against... So that doesn't have to be taken into consideration...
Frankly, being denied would kill something about this game for me...
Thanks Tristan...I simply forgot that. He's been married now and has a barren wife!! DOH!!
It certainly has to be OOC PK. Simply because we can't talk about it IC :beam:
For me there are no feelings involved. We simply need a solution, I just feel that the solution should be based on the IC reasoning. It's the royal family, and the head of the royal family is therefore responsible. This works for me both IC and OOC...lucky.
Privateerkev
07-06-2008, 18:22
It certainly has to be OOC PK. Simply because we can't talk about it IC :beam:
This could be resolved IC but it would be a very different animal. IC, who would dare tell the Emperor in public that he can't decide who gets into the royal family? Since this more of a "big picture" issue, it should be decided OOC, as it is now.
AussieGiant
07-06-2008, 18:33
This could be resolved IC but it would be a very different animal. IC, who would dare tell the Emperor in public that he can't decide who gets into the royal family? Since this more of a "big picture" issue, it should be decided OOC, as it is now.
Sure.
Otherwise OK would just make a decision. That's what I'm hoping everyone will vote for.
Ignoramus
07-07-2008, 01:04
If I had to make a decision, it would be IC, rather than OOC.
Northnovas
07-07-2008, 03:44
Just a note I won't be able to physically play the game for the next 2 weeks, hence my orders to sit in Corinth and no movement allowed. Work has me away from home and the game but I have internet access to read and participate in the forums IC/OOC. If it really matters........... to anyone. ~:joker:
Askthepizzaguy
07-07-2008, 03:45
I've recently paid tribute to our lord and Emperor Aleksios, in my own inimitable way. I used some artistic license, because our current lord has been most magnanimous... but what would he do with a captured Turk, or a heretic?
And so my brain comes up with this... if anyone is interested, see my profile.
:clown:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-10-2008, 00:26
Just one question ..
If my avatar will have a son and that son becomes an age then .. Is that new avatar (my son) under my command??
I mean . can I play with father and son avatars at the same time??:inquisitive:
Just some stupid question but ...
Only one avatar at a time. You can theoretically end up playing the son if he remains untaken by the time of the father's death, though. :yes:
Just one question ..
If my avatar will have a son and that son becomes an age then .. Is that new avatar (my son) under my command??
I mean . can I play with father and son avatars at the same time??:inquisitive:
Just some stupid question but ...
Ibn-Khaldun
07-10-2008, 01:00
Now ...
Two things..
How can I become part of the royal family and how can I get 4 untaken sons fast?! :eyebrows::saint:
Efstathios can become part of the royal family through a Man of the Hour event (from a Heroic Victory) or marriage (to either a Princess or unmarried noblewoman in the Imperial family). :yes:
Births (and MOTH events) are based partly on chance and partly on how many Imperial Family members we have compared to the number of settlements we control (not sure if recruitable generals are factored in). The more settlements and fewer family members we have, the greater the chance of a birth or MOTH (births also requiring you be married :clown:).
Now ...
Two things..
How can I become part of the royal family and how can I get 4 untaken sons fast?! :eyebrows::saint:
deguerra
07-10-2008, 01:47
If you really want to be a family member, you could wait until one of the Basileos' younger sons come of age, but that is still quite a few turns yet I believe.
Ignoramus
07-10-2008, 06:08
I'd just like to say that I wish to argue again against playing ahead. I know we reach a sort of compromise, but I do not like playing ahead to organise sieges or the like. We already have a huge advantage against the AI, and scouting ahead is something that compromises the game for everyone.
AussieGiant
07-10-2008, 07:01
I'd just like to say that I wish to argue again against playing ahead. I know we reach a sort of compromise, but I do not like playing ahead to organise sieges or the like. We already have a huge advantage against the AI, and scouting ahead is something that compromises the game for everyone.
I strongly support this statement.
It's absurd to be doing things like this then discussing them. I just hope people don't simply move these discussion into PM's and continue.
Ibn-Khaldun
07-10-2008, 10:08
Oh well ..
That "my avatar having 4 sons etc" was meant to be a joke :inquisitive:
People are starting to loose sense of humor in these days :shame:
And I'm not playing ahead:no:
Ituralde
07-10-2008, 10:20
I'm pretty sure the last two comments were not aimed at you specifically Ibn-Khaldun. Usually we manage to get a good semblance of humour around here. :2thumbsup:
And if we don't we just stick a :clown: at the end of our posts and hope it passes by unnoticed. :beam:
AussieGiant
07-10-2008, 10:33
Oh well ..
That "my avatar having 4 sons etc" was meant to be a joke :inquisitive:
People are starting to loose sense of humor in these days :shame:
And I'm not playing ahead:no:
Hi Ibn-Khaldun,
My comment was not directed at you. Sorry if it came out that way. I'm fairly sure Igno's comment is also not directed at you either. :egypt:
AussieGiant
07-10-2008, 11:48
I've just been reading some of the more entertaining sections of KotR...it's great reading and pretty funny actually.
We all seem so well behaved in LotR...:book:
OverKnight
07-10-2008, 12:03
What parts of KotR were you reviewing?
I'd say give LotR some time before passing judgement.
AussieGiant
07-10-2008, 12:15
I was reading Diet sessions 4, 5 and 6.
Interesting times...as the 2nd elector of Austria it was me Pre-Arnold.
GH was just a nut job :beam:
Otto, Mandorf, Heinrich, Henry amazing bunch of guy's slugging it out on the floor.
Great stuff.
I agree that we need to wait. I just still feel like I'm attending a Lawn Bowls Tea party. :clown:
Please note I don't want anyone to start some artificial fight at the Wedding or anything...not like the "Near Bar Brawl" with the four Dukes in the Tavern in KotR...that was a cracker!!
Don't worry, AG, once the game shifts over more to internal competition, it will be impossible to go back. And if you are concerned about when that will happen, just remember that Ignoramus is the heir to throne. :laugh4:
Ignoramus
07-10-2008, 12:22
Don't worry, AG, once the game shifts over more to internal competition, it will be impossible to go back. And if you are concerned about when that will happen, just remember that Ignoramus is the heir to throne. :laugh4:
:drama3:
I can promise everyone that if I become FL, that we'll have an enjoyable game.
Please note I don't want anyone to start some artificial fight at the Wedding or anything...not like the "Near Bar Brawl" with the four Dukes in the Tavern in KotR...that was a cracker!!
All depends on how well Makedonios can appreciate a few jokes at his expense...
AussieGiant
07-10-2008, 13:53
That's an extremely good point TC.
Igno, lets not take my observation too far. You're the original maniac in these games so some semblance of normality would be appreciated. :clown:
I'd like to get some opinions on an idea for a new aspect to the game. YourLordandConqueror proposed the idea of opening an IC 'University' thread. I told him I would consider it if he could show that it would serve some useful purpose that didn't properly fit in elsewhere. He came back to me today with this interesting response, based on discussions he had with TheFlax:
Okay, me and TF have pounded out an idea for the University we think is pretty solid, so tell me what you think or add in suggestions.
The University will serve two functions:
1) Act as a place to develop traits pertaining to governance, the traits that can be learned limited to "level one", with "level two" traits in rare circumstances.
2) Act as a repository of reference materials for Rping, such as TF's threads and/or other material that can help one improve ones skill.
Gaining traits from the University will be limited to one per term, requiring both a post for admittance into the University for that term (That one would post in the Univeristy thread), and a yet to be defined amount of stories in the story thread.
Reference materials will be checked by the DM (You) for accuracy and objectivity, then they will be posted in the primary post as a link under a title indicating the donor of said material.
So what do you think?
This has peaked my interest because we've already seen some problems with the trait system. The idea of giving people a small amount of control over their own traits interests me a great deal. At the same time, I don't particularly relish the idea of policing this kind of thing myself. This proposal has gotten me thinking, though, and there are interesting options along the lines proposed above. I've considered just lumping this in with the next 'Event' to implement it without a problem, but I would prefer it we could do it via an Amendment which was supported by a majority of the players. So, I'd like some OOC discussion on this and some help determining (1) if it's a good idea and (2) how to properly tweak it to make it work well. Here's what I am thinking:
The 'University' is established as an in-game institution with its own IC thread. At the start of each term, the Basileus appoints the 'Dean' (or whatever title we give him) of the University. The Dean can impose whatever requirements he wishes on membership in the University, can admit people, and can kick people out. Once per term, every member of the University may move one of their existing traits up or down one level. This would be 'training' or 'education' in self-improvement, either to improve good traits, or get rid of bad traits. New traits could not be added, only modification of existing traits. A list of specfic traits that could be altered would have to be drawn up, to avoid people modifying 'physical' traits like intelligence or bloodline and 'event' traits like battle victories, etc. Perhaps the Dean could pick one person per term to receive 'honors' which would let them bump one trait two levels or two traits one level. Perhaps there could be a very small list of new traits with an 'education' or 'governance' theme to them that could be added, as YLC suggests.
I see two benefits to this. First, it provides a way for people to direct their character development a bit more. Traits which really play havoc with your roleplaying can be disposed of over time if you focus on them enough. Traits which emphasize the kind of character you want to play can be increased to also aid roleplaying. Second, by making the position of Dean political, it adds a level of competitiveness and politicking to the whole process. If you become Dean, you can bar your enemies from admission to the University. This might provoke some interesting IC situations.
I would like to hear general thoughts on this idea.
Privateerkev
07-10-2008, 14:52
I'd just like to say that I wish to argue again against playing ahead. I know we reach a sort of compromise, but I do not like playing ahead to organise sieges or the like. We already have a huge advantage against the AI, and scouting ahead is something that compromises the game for everyone.
I strongly support this statement.
It's absurd to be doing things like this then discussing them. I just hope people don't simply move these discussion into PM's and continue.
For once, it wasn't me that played ahead. But in that person's defense, we did discover a really crappy element of the supply trait system.
I've just been reading some of the more entertaining sections of KotR...it's great reading and pretty funny actually.
We all seem so well behaved in LotR...:book:
I have a theory on this. In KotR, the rules didn't really allow for much conflict other than verbal drama and voting treachery. At least until the cataclysm. Now, there are real outlets for conflict. There is a real threat of someone declaring war on your avatar, and killing him. So, I think the plotting has gone more underground. There seems to be a larger use of private forums this game.
All depends on how well Makedonios can appreciate a few jokes at his expense...
And it all depends on how well Savvas takes to having his face shoved into the punchbowl until he falls unconscious, only to wake up with a horrible hangover, a sore rectum, and lewd comments written on his forehead with magic marker. :clown:
Ituralde
07-10-2008, 15:37
@TinCow:
My first thought after reading the thread about the "University" system was that some poor sod would have to make all those trait changes via console. I'll just pass this on then and make some more thoughts about this that I'll share with you later.
@PK:
I think that's a pretty good theory you got going there. I also noticed the absence of verbal drama so far, but it is probably due to the reason you mentioned. With real consequences you act friendly to your opponent's face, which doesn't keep you from backstabbing him at every opportunity.
There already is a lot of tension building up behind the scenes, I already look forward to see the first eruption of our scheming. I'm sure we'll soon look back at these quieter times and want them back. Or maybe not! :smartass2:
My first thought after reading the thread about the "University" system was that some poor sod would have to make all those trait changes via console.
I would be that poor sod.
Privateerkev
07-10-2008, 16:11
I think the university is a cool idea. I like how it it decided IC who gets in, but if your in, you get the affect.
Doesn't SS already have this system in the game? Or is it just for family members?
Doesn't SS already have this system in the game? Or is it just for family members?
SS has an 'education' system for avatars that have just come of age. For 4 years after they come of age, they pick up certain positive traits based on being located in certain qualifying locations (like the capital or a castle with a library building). This doesn't work for RBGs or adopted avatars, so it's not going to be of much use to most LotR players.
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