View Full Version : LotR - OOC Thread and Chatroom
With the movement bonus of a small army and a bit of luck it's entirely possible that one person could get both. The only catch being that he would have to defeat over 20 enemy units with just 3 of his own.
It depends on the player. Some people may get 6 total units, plus the person who takes control of Alexandria will get 2 to 4 extra units. If you're lucky enough and good enough, it is therefore possible for a single player to have 10 units under his exclusive control after taking Alexandria. The odds of this happening, though, are pretty low. I won't even guarantee that anyone will get 6 units.
Ibn-Khaldun
07-17-2008, 20:36
TC.. in Event 3 rules it is said that you will move all of the crusading armies??
Or will you move them until they reach Egypt and from there on we can take control over them??
Also.. could these Crusaders exchange units if they have agreed to do so or we can just control the ones you have spawned to us??
I think we can trade units as I think we can dispose of some.
I will move all Crusaders and their armies/fleets until the Event is over. This is to prevent anyone from straying from the route and also because I will not be following the usual movement rules in the game. Depending on luck and/or sabotage, some people may not use up their either movement points, and some may move more than their normal movement points. If people were moving themselves, this would be impossible to implement. This is also why you have to tell me whether you are going to Alexandria or Cairo when you land. If you do not, I will not know in which direction to move you.
As for exchanging units, that will not be allowed. You can either ally with someone and move with them, or you can move on your own. The units you start with will remain with your avatar, wherever he is, as long as they survive.
woad&fangs
07-17-2008, 20:42
so you can't disband them?
Why would you want to disband your own army?
Ibn-Khaldun
07-17-2008, 20:45
What if I decide to quit the crusade.. What will happen to my avatar and the army under his command??
I assume that the army will be disbanded but what will happen to my avatar??
You might want to disband so you get the movement point bonus.
You cannot quit the Crusade. Once on board the ship, the only place you can get off is in Egypt. If you decide not to go after either city when you get there, that's fine, but you'll have to wait until the Crusade is over to move freely again. At that point, if you are unable to retain control over your army through the normal rules, the Megas can do whatever he wants with them.
It is worth pointing out that anyone who goes on the Crusade will have to find their own means of getting home. The potential rewards of the Crusade are high, but so are the risks. This is intentional.
[edit] There will be no disbanding, then. Movement is not something to be gamed in this Event. If you want to move faster, don't join with other people.
woad&fangs
07-17-2008, 20:49
Why would you want to disband your own army?
I believe it said in the event rules that an army of 6 or fewer units will get a +1 to movement.
As an example lets say that me and KoP allied and I had 3 units and he had 4. We could disband a low quality unit and try to reach Cairo faster than the others. Sacrificing power for speed.
TC has now stopped disbanding.
As an example lets say that me and KoP allied and I had 3 units and he had 4. We could disband a low quality unit and try to reach Cairo faster than the others. Sacrificing power for speed.
The entire reason for the movement bonuses and penalties was to give a bonus for going alone or with non-powerful allies and give a penalty for making a massive army. You'll notice that the movement bonus is guaranteed to anyone who is solo, since no one will have a personal army larger than 6. It is also impossible for there to be a movement penalty for 2 people, since they cannot have an army larger than 12. This is all intentional and designed to work in a certain fashion. If you want to move fast, you might have to go alone or ally with someone else who is weak. If you want a strong army, you will be moving slower.
The 10 units of garrison in Alexandria and Cairo were also specifically chosen with this balance in mind. People who are able to get the movement bonus will have a tough time taking the cities. People who have an easy time taking the cities will not get there as quickly. You need to determine what the best strategy is and pursue it as you see fit.
woad&fangs
07-17-2008, 20:59
No Crusaders left behind. Understood, TC.:medievalcheers:
on another note, does anyone know how far the "scarred" line of traits goes in SS? Solomon already has "marks of war".
Ibn-Khaldun
07-17-2008, 21:07
Also.. if I do not join the crusade but want to fight the Egyptians then can I start the war before the Crusaders or can only the Crusaders do that??
And.. As I understand then Crusaders can take only Alexandria and Cairo.
But what if others want to go against Egypt as well is it allowed them to conquer other cities??
There is an Edict in the Magnaura that declares war on Egypt.. So others could take Acre and Jerusalem and so on??
Privateerkev
07-17-2008, 21:11
There is an Edict in the Magnaura that declares war on Egypt.. So others could take Acre and Jerusalem and so on??
:saint:
The Event does not alter any possible war with Egypt. If a proper declaration of war is started by the Basileus or an Edict, it can be started whenever you want. The Event only allows that no declaration of war is required if the war is started by one of the Crusaders themselves. It's a way of bypassing the Edict requirement in the event that one is not enacted.
The Event does not alter what any non-Crusader does. They can attack anything they want, as long as the rules are obeyed. The Event also does not stop the Crusaders from attacking other Egyptian cities once the Crusade is over. Once Cairo is captured, you can do whatever you like, but you have to use the normal system to do so.
Will the Generals have to stay in Egypt after the Crusade or will they be warped back, and what happens to the units?
Ibn-Khaldun
07-17-2008, 21:16
:saint:
This was not meant for your eyes!
So let's just pretend that you know nothing about that! :beam:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-17-2008, 21:18
Will the Generals have to stay in Egypt after the Crusade or will they be warped back, and what happens to the units?
You can keep the troops.
You will not be warped to anywhere.
You will stay in Egypt and have to find your own way back.
Bingo. Getting home from the real Crusades wasn't a picnic either.
Ibn-Khaldun
07-17-2008, 21:29
Bingo. Getting home from the real Crusades wasn't a picnic either.
It wasn't?? Really?? :dizzy2: ~:eek:
I do remember seeing pictures where Crusaders had a nice time around a small campfire ..
Or was it a burning town .. oh well.. it's almost the same thing
:clown:
AussieGiant
07-17-2008, 21:29
Bingo. Getting home from the real Crusades wasn't a picnic either.
Now you just spoiled all my fun TC. :balloon2:
Maybe it's just a distorted view from playing a hotseat with battles allowed with some freakishly good players, but it seems to me 10 unit garrisons might be a little small. I learned after a bit of help of a particularly good player that it's not all that difficult to defeat a garrison larger than your army, without using your general's bodyguard heavily, even for someone who's mediocre at the game like me. :yes: Maybe 13 or so units would make it harder?
Of course, if the crusader armies contain a fair amount of rabble and the garrisons don't I might be fretting for nothing. :clown:
The 10 units of garrison in Alexandria and Cairo were also specifically chosen with this balance in mind. People who are able to get the movement bonus will have a tough time taking the cities. People who have an easy time taking the cities will not get there as quickly. You need to determine what the best strategy is and pursue it as you see fit.
Ibn-Khaldun
07-17-2008, 21:42
I just hope that TC wouldn't spawn gold chevroned elite troops to protect the towns!!! :sweatdrop:
The garrions are not meant to be too difficult, they are simply meant to be a deterent to the weakest of the armies. I want the challenge to be beating the other Crusaders to the destination, not taking the cities themselves.
I have done my best to update the feudal structure in the Library. Please check the Political Alliances and Houses table and your own personal biography to make sure I have all the ranks, province ownerships, and oaths right. I have not done the following things yet, so please don't point them out:
Current Influence
Wives
Children
1110 AD mugshots
Also note that for my own convenience, I have added in Knights_of_Palma as a member of the Order. However, he has sworn during a Senate Session and as such his oath does not technically take effect until after the session is over. Since he is just a Strator, though, this doesn't change anything and it's easier for me to just do it now while I'm at it. Just remember that technically his oath will not take effect until Tuesday.
Privateerkev
07-17-2008, 22:04
Please check the Political Alliances and Houses table and your own personal biography to make sure I have all the ranks, province ownerships, and oaths right.
Here is what I found so far:
Activity: Byblos is listed as 0 activity even though he voted in the 1st session. Kag is listed as 1 activity when he voted in both the 1st and 2nd sessions. (Kag voted "abstain on all" in the legislation poll.)
Time served: EF and FD have it listed when they got their current rank since it requires a certain amount of time served before moving on. This helps me out a lot since I've been trying to keep track of this. Kalameteros on the other hand does not have it listed as to when he reached his current rank even though his rank is also requires a certain amount of time served to move on.
Hmmm... I could have sworn that Kag missed the second vote. It's possible he voted after the time limit expired. I will give both him and Byblos the benefit of the doubt and bump their activity count up by 1 each. However from now on I will be locking all polls after their time limit expires.
Privateerkev
07-17-2008, 22:24
Hmmm... I could have sworn that Kag missed the second vote. It's possible he voted after the time limit expired. I will give both him and Byblos the benefit of the doubt and bump their activity count up by 1 each. However from now on I will be locking all polls after their time limit expires.
I guess I assumed that the polls locked at a certain time so I didn't think about the fact that they could have voted late.
Why is everyone leaving on my brithday, first deguerra, now TinCow! ~:mecry:
And about the crusade, is it possible for two people to sail to Egypt seperately and join up when they have both landed? Thus risking having to wait if one gets caught in a storm or something but hopefully increasing their chances of going faster.
deguerra
07-18-2008, 00:02
TC, I believe Ioannis has 2 influence, now that he is married to Anna, correct?
Askthepizzaguy
07-18-2008, 01:01
Just want everyone to know, I am still in the game, but will likely be rp'ing only. I doubt I will end up moving my aging avatar unless he's needed in battle.
Also... for the story for my character, the events may not match up precisely with in-game events. There will be flashbacks and stuff... so please bear with me.
woad&fangs
07-18-2008, 01:04
He's only 40:laugh4: It's not like he's going to roll over and croak any time soon.
Privateerkev
07-18-2008, 01:11
Yeah but he has 0 loyalty. He might rebel upon setting foot upon the ground. :laugh4:
Privateerkev
07-18-2008, 01:56
I just want to say I loved your rant ATPG! :2thumbsup:
Things have been quiet with you gone. :yes:
Askthepizzaguy
07-18-2008, 02:07
Thank you.
Umm... for those interested, my actions won't be interfering with the game itself or anyone's fun.
However, Efstratios' character has turned due to a traumatic event which I will explain in flashbacks later. (Damn the speed of this game... damn my hectic schedule)
Efstratios will be quite outspoken against the Patriarch from now on, unless he calls off the crusade. You may react to this however you like. I hope you all won't universally condemn me, but I feel it won't be too far away from that anyway.
GeneralHankerchief
07-18-2008, 02:09
I'd oblige and we could get into a nice little flamewar, if it weren't for the slight problem that the Rep isn't allowed in the Magnaura. :laugh4:
Askthepizzaguy
07-18-2008, 02:12
GH,
I'd very much like to argue in the form of IC letters between us.
Would you allow me to post such letters in your Patriarch thread, or would you prefer another thread?
The Senate would be interested in such arguments, so perhaps letters could be read in the Senate itself, but hidden in spoilers so as not to distract from the overall thing.
Privateerkev
07-18-2008, 02:17
You guys could argue in the Hippodrome. :beam:
Askthepizzaguy
07-18-2008, 02:21
I can't do that. Efstratios is in self-imposed exile right now.
GeneralHankerchief
07-18-2008, 02:34
I'm sorry, only the Magnaura would do. The Representative isn't the kind of guy who frequents the Hippodrome, and the Patriarch would not deign to spend so much of his time arguing via letter. I guess next time... :bigcry:
OverKnight
07-18-2008, 03:03
The Patriarch is welcome in the Magnaura, Aleksios said so himself. The Patriarchal lickspittle (Represenative), however, is not.
The Basileus does not appreciate threats against his family by underlings. :whip:
I hope people can appreciate the distinction.
GeneralHankerchief
07-18-2008, 03:12
Good God, I'm getting flashbacks of UPS Maximus.
Askthepizzaguy
07-18-2008, 03:23
I would argue "in person", but from what I know, great scholars and political enemies spent MUCH of their time arguing via letter.
Frankly the Patriarch, IC, would most likely not even allow an audience for a nobody like Monomachos to challenge his authority or his wisdom. Only a letter defending himself or brushing aside my arguments seems appropriate.
But if, one day, the great Patriarch feels I am a real threat worth debating, I'll take you on anytime, anywhere, with Bible in hand...
:skull:
Privateerkev
07-18-2008, 03:25
Dismissing the argument of someone who won't come in person is a political tactic as well. :beam:
We've had debates by proxy in KotR before and there is a point where it becomes pointless. So, there seems to be an almost OOC tendency to treat an avatar that is in the Senate himself more seriously than if the message is delivered by proxy or letter.
Askthepizzaguy
07-18-2008, 03:30
as I said, react as you may. I am open to publicly berating and debating the Patriarch. However, if he's unwilling or unable to debate, thats fine too. The way I RP my character should not force anyone to act a certain way.
I am interested to see how people react, or if they even do, beyond a comment or two. I love testing the waters.
Ramses II CP
07-18-2008, 06:06
So, obviously, Vissa's replies are just the most obvious from the KJ's bible since I don't read 10th century Greek or have an appropriate copy on hand. :laugh4: Still I don't think there will be any trouble finding religious support for the legitmacy of Crusades. After all, they actually happened. :yes:
That said, I hope at least a person or two finds his support for the Crusade a bit over the top. It's meant that way.
And if anyone gets offended by a potential pseudo-religious discussion poke me now, since ATPG and I are both atheists (IIRC) and have nothing at stake. :2thumbsup:
:egypt:
And about the crusade, is it possible for two people to sail to Egypt seperately and join up when they have both landed? Thus risking having to wait if one gets caught in a storm or something but hopefully increasing their chances of going faster.
Yep, that's entirely possible and you describe it exactly how it's intended to work.
pevergreen
07-18-2008, 14:38
I looked at the summary thread thingy and how am i in Antioch? :laugh4:
The Library has now been fully updated and I have fixed all errors that have been pointed out. Please continue to post anything else that you think is wrong.
Privateerkev
07-18-2008, 16:31
The Library has now been fully updated and I have fixed all errors that have been pointed out. Please continue to post anything else that you think is wrong.
Anastasios Neokaisareitis should have 1 more influence for having 5+ dread. nevermind, he is just a Comes and can't use it.
The Caesar is a Hypatos, not a Domestikos on his library post. (though it is correct in the Political Alliances and Houses portion.) This doesn't raise his cap so his influence stays the same. He has 5 command, 5 chivalry, and 20+ stats but his rank only allows him to use 1 of those. Being Caesar allows him to use another. If he had given territory (he has 2) to one of his vassals before the Senate session, he could have been an Antypatos and gotten the use of the 3rd stat point.
Pavlos Chrysovergos should get 1 more influence for having 5+ command. nevermind, he is just a Comes and can't use it. If the Caesar would have gotten one of his people with land to swear to Pavlos, they would have more influence.
Methodios has enough stats for a couple points but can't use them since he has no land and vassals.
So, except for the Domestikos label on the Caesar's page, I don't see any errors. The Caesar is losing a couple of influence for his House by not making use of the Feudal ladder and land that is in his possession.
Askthepizzaguy
07-19-2008, 01:44
So, obviously, Vissa's replies are just the most obvious from the KJ's bible since I don't read 10th century Greek or have an appropriate copy on hand. :laugh4: Still I don't think there will be any trouble finding religious support for the legitmacy of Crusades. After all, they actually happened. :yes:
That said, I hope at least a person or two finds his support for the Crusade a bit over the top. It's meant that way.
And if anyone gets offended by a potential pseudo-religious discussion poke me now, since ATPG and I are both atheists (IIRC) and have nothing at stake. :2thumbsup:
:egypt:
I would have no trouble finding what 90% of what the New Testament says directly controverts the theory of aggressive warfare and killing in God's name.
:grin:
I guess all that stuff about mercy and forgiveness and turning the other cheek... slipped by those crusader types. It's easy to follow one's religion when nothing challenges it, but when something does and one has to forsake the message of one's faith in order to defend it, then it is not a message worth defending.
My point of view only.
And I'm not specifically atheist, I believe in something comparable to God, I suppose. I believe that truth is sacred, and is in fact evidence that the universe is not "godless" and ungoverned by reason. But that's religion and somewhat outside the bounds of this thread, and who really cares what I think?
Also, I am glad to see that my vehement condemnation of this crusade has the support of one member of the royal family. I'm glad my character isn't a maniac raging against the system by himself.
As for the Order of the True Cross, don't ask.
I hope my tidalwave of CAs hasn't confused anyone. Please feel free to ask questions about it or debate it in here. Most of that stuff is OOC, but I prefer to play by the rules whenever possible, so that stuff needed to be posted in the proper format.
GeneralHankerchief
07-19-2008, 03:09
Just a heads-up, I'm going to be out of town and without internet access from the 19th to the 26th, so if you write the Patriarch and don't get a reply back for a while, this is why.
deguerra
07-19-2008, 03:27
Ditto. Am leaving tomorrow, will be back by Friday, both Australian time. I will update my Status thread to allow my House to move me and send TC and OK my votes for the Senate session.
Ramses II CP
07-19-2008, 14:59
I would have no trouble finding what 90% of what the New Testament says directly controverts the theory of aggressive warfare and killing in God's name.
:grin:
I guess all that stuff about mercy and forgiveness and turning the other cheek... slipped by those crusader types. It's easy to follow one's religion when nothing challenges it, but when something does and one has to forsake the message of one's faith in order to defend it, then it is not a message worth defending.
My point of view only.
And I'm not specifically atheist, I believe in something comparable to God, I suppose. I believe that truth is sacred, and is in fact evidence that the universe is not "godless" and ungoverned by reason. But that's religion and somewhat outside the bounds of this thread, and who really cares what I think?
Also, I am glad to see that my vehement condemnation of this crusade has the support of one member of the royal family. I'm glad my character isn't a maniac raging against the system by himself.
As for the Order of the True Cross, don't ask.
My point of view:
The Bible, like most religious texts, supports any and every thing that the reader desires at the time of it's reading. You see peace and free love, some people see law and order, and others see war and conversion at the point of a sword. The difference isn't in the book, it's in you. I hope Vissa is able to convey some of that in his IC speech. :2thumbsup:
I'm specifically atheist, and (Not to open the discussion here, send me a pm if yer curious), I find the bland Unitarian/Universalist perspective the most difficult to understand perspective... except in guys who've just met a woman. You freshly GF'd ATPG? :laugh4:
Considering that your point of view has the support of the royal family, obvious Vissa is the one raging against the system. :smash:
:egypt:
_Tristan_
07-20-2008, 12:48
Happy Birthday EF !!
:birthday2: :gathering: :barrel:
~:cheers:
I brought a :clown: to your party !!
Ibn-Khaldun
07-20-2008, 13:26
Today is EF's birthday??
Well..
In that case..
Happy Birthday!!!! :birthday2:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-20-2008, 13:39
Perhaps I'm blind or something but I don't see the poll for the legislations :beam:
Oh never mind.. I am blind :shame:
Privateerkev
07-20-2008, 17:19
Happy birthday EF!
~:cheers:
(since your too young to drink, I'll just have both.)
:beam:
They seemed to make me drink enough when I went to Crete :clown:
Thanks guys, loving the clown Tristan.
AussieGiant
07-20-2008, 18:19
Happy Birthday EF!!
They even make babies drink in Crete!! :balloon2:
OverKnight
07-21-2008, 07:32
The election for Megas looks close.
However it seems that any edict that manages to get seconded gets rubber stamped, not just now but since the beginning of the game.
Privateerkev
07-21-2008, 07:41
Getting a little worried OK? ;)
As for the Edicts, I think it is because in LotR, we can just take our private army and go and knock over the settlement next door. In KotR we would have to pass specific Edicts to take a specific settlement. And then we'd have to pass another to incorporate it into the Empire. And then we'd have to hope the Emperor actually gives it to us.
Now, since we don't have to go through that, Edicts seem to be either "lighter" stuff like "send a priest here" or "broader" like "declare war on faction X."
As for Mak, none of those Edicts were "rubber stamped." They were calculated political moves done with a purpose. :beam:
As for why others vote for them, who knows. :shrug:
There haven't really been many controversial edicts. Even still, 3.1 and 3.3 are kind of on the edge, especially when you add that the only two avatars with more than 2 influence voted against them. They look like they'll pass at this point, but not by a landslide or anything.
Edit. A minute late. :clown:
The election for Megas looks close.
However it seems that any edict that manages to get seconded gets rubber stamped, not just now but since the beginning of the game.
It doesn't look that close to me. If I worked for CNN, I'd already be calling this one for Ignoramus.
It takes 18 votes to get over the half-way mark, if we assume that Lemongate, Smowz, and Byblos won't vote (and if they suddenly show up, they're all likely to vote for Ignoramus). At this stage, Ignoramus is leading 17-12, and Ituralde is likely to show up before the election is done with.
CNN has called it. :laugh4:
Privateerkev
07-21-2008, 08:06
I know but I was amused that OK thought it was close. Maybe he knew something I didn't. :shrug:
This election was locked up before the session even started. :yes:
(of course, I think most of these elections are locked up ahead of time.)
Cecil XIX
07-22-2008, 02:07
Well, I've finished with the Map of the Houses. I hope it's good enough to go in the Library.
https://img224.imageshack.us/img224/9618/lotrpoliticalmap1110ss7.png
Cecil, if I make make an aesthetic suggestion. Since this is an internal map of the Empire, I would recommend painting all non-Imperial lands in rebel-grey. That'll make the house divisions stick out better.
Privateerkev
07-22-2008, 04:34
Hmm... I might have to rethink the "House" color...
The Order's territory looks like a giant bird dropping. :clown:
Cecil XIX
07-22-2008, 04:36
You mean non-Byzantines lands? Personally, I like being able to compare the sizes of the houses to the sizes of entire nations. But if enough people agree, I could do that.
OverKnight
07-22-2008, 05:41
As an alternative, you could highlight the Empire's national border with a bright purple for example.
OverKnight
07-23-2008, 04:26
So until TC gets back, I'll be running the Crusade mechanics for him.
I'd still direct any questions you might have to him, as I'm only acting as a proxy.
Also this is my first time playing (assistant) God so please be patient.
I'll make Crusade adjustments once the free move period is over.
BananaBob
07-23-2008, 16:00
Just so everyone knows, friday night I'll be going camping for 3 days, then immediately moving in to my first apartment.:2thumbsup: It will probably take a week for me get an internet connection.
Ibn-Khaldun
07-23-2008, 16:15
I heard that someone forgot to add me into the Crusaders list :beam:
OOC I have nothing to say because I'm in now ..
But IC this can lead to some interesting stories :yes::beam:
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 16:21
I heard that someone forgot to add me into the Crusaders list :beam:
I didn't want Kosmas to be without his Crusader-buddy. :beam:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-23-2008, 16:27
After all that talking in the Magnaura about joining the Crusade and if I would have been left out..
I think Efstathios would've been "a little bit" pissed off :beam:
Also I looked the election voting thread...
If there would be rule that says "Candidates can't vote," then Savvas would've had a chance to become the Megas:yes:
I think there should be that rule. I mean getting +3 influence and then voting for yourself is a bit unfair.
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 16:36
Also I looked the election voting thread...
If there would be rule that says "Candidates can't vote," then Savvas would've had a chance to become the Megas:yes:
Like I said a page or so back, the election was decided before it started. Welcome to politics... :laugh4:
Look through KotR and you'll see plenty of instances of people rigging elections ahead of time. The form of democracy in these games is quite problematic. (That is not criticism by the way.) Because of the feudal system, there are webs of power relations that prevent a true "one-person, one vote" situation. So, influence and pressure is applied to various people and the votes come down a certain way.
But, the only constant in these games is change. Who is your ally today might hate you, or like someone better, tomorrow. And who might hate your guts today might vote for you tomorrow. So, it's just a matter of figuring out those webs of influence and learning how to pull on the strings. :beam:
I think there should be that rule. I mean getting +3 influence and then voting for yourself is a bit unfair.
I see no problem with voting for yourself. This isn't meant to be fair. This... is fuedalism! :D
AussieGiant
07-23-2008, 17:11
Look through KotR and you'll see plenty of instances of people rigging elections ahead of time.
Good god!! Are you serious PK!! Who the hell would have been so low as to rig elections!!??
I mean the cheek of these people. :balloon2:
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 17:16
Good god!! Are you serious PK!! Who the hell would have been so low as to rig elections!!??
I mean the cheek of these people. :balloon2:
I know AG, I know! The nerve of these people!
I mean, who did Jan think he was, bribing Hans to throw the election to Matthias!?!
:clown:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-23-2008, 17:19
I have nothing against that influence thing ..
This is politics after all .. just like you said..
But if a guy with +10 influence goes against 9 people with +1 influence then .. THAT is unfair :yes:
But come to think of it ... Perhaps this could be good for the game ..
Those 9 other people can just decapitate that 1 guy who thinks too much of him self :beam:
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 17:22
I have nothing against that influence thing ..
This is politics after all .. just like you said..
But if a guy with +10 influence goes against 9 people with +1 influence then .. THAT is unfair :yes:
But come to think of it ... Perhaps this could be good for the game ..
Those 9 other people can just decapitate that 1 guy who thinks too much of him self :beam:
We're probably going to come upon that very situation. In KotR, Kaiser Henry had 10 influence because of his authority. It took a large part of the Diet to overcome his votes. You can see that struggle best in the election of Chancellor Hummel.
Though in this game, like you mentioned, there are ways to take care of 10 Authority avatars...
:evil:
Cecil XIX
07-23-2008, 17:57
Though in this game, like you mentioned, there are ways to take care of 10 Authority avatars...
Although that would be pretty hard to do against avatars as well respected as Henry.
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 18:03
Although that would be pretty hard to do against avatars as well respected as Henry.
That's true but it is possible. Even 9 strators could probably take down a royal army due to the Jedi-like abilities of RBG's. So they wouldn't need the support of the Megas or higher ranking lords.
My point to IK was that it all balances out. An Emperor can get 10 authority, and have a massive influence in voting. But he is only one man. He'll need to gain and maintain a web of support from among the other nobles. Even the ones without land since he could be mobbed by a bunch of them if they gang up on him.
I just had a crazy thought. What if, for example, Kalameteros, who is at the top of the Asteri chain, swore an oath to Laskaris, who is at the bottom of the very same chain? There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that prohibits it. The "number of vassals" quantities would start to get a little bit undefined, but I think everyone would shoot up to Exarch if you counted around the loop a few times...
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 20:12
I just had a crazy thought. What if, for example, Kalameteros, who is at the top of the Asteri chain, swore an oath to Laskaris, who is at the bottom of the very same chain? There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that prohibits it. The "number of vassals" quantities would start to get a little bit undefined, but I think everyone would shoot up to Exarch if you counted around the loop a few times...
I'm sure TC will come up with a more lawyerly way to refute it but here is my take.
Here is the penalty for Exarch:
Penalties:
(1) Cannot swear an Oath of Fealty to another Senator
This would effectively break the circle.
Now, if the House has less than 7 people, this rule wouldn't forbid it.
But, keep this in mind, there has to be someone at the top of the chain.
Many powers have the exception:
unless the X is loyal to a Y.
Which means, if your loyal to someone else, you can't use your power, such as priority or destruction.
In a circle, everyone is loyal to someone.
I guess by this logic, if there are 6 people, all 6 would be Dukes since each person would have 5 vassals.
:dizzy2:
So um... I hope it isn't allowed. Even if we have to come up with some sort of "gentleman's agreement" to forbid it. :yes:
Kagemusha
07-23-2008, 20:22
Im back. Meaning my internet problems involving accessing Org from home are over. Now i just have to think of bloody good IC reasons for my character being paralyzed all this time.:sweatdrop:
Im back. Meaning my internet problems involving accessing Org from home are over. Now i just have to think of bloody good IC reasons for my character being paralyzed all this time.:sweatdrop:
How about something fell on his back and was paralyzed, but now there was a miracle?
I guess by this logic, if there are 6 people, all 6 would be Dukes since each person would have 5 vassals.
Unless you can be your own vassal by proxy, and there doesn't seem to be anything to prohibit this. Then the loop can continue indefinitely, everyone having an infinite number of vassals.
Kagemusha
07-23-2008, 20:31
How about something fell on his back and was paralyzed, but now there was a miracle?
Unless you can be your own vassal by proxy, and there doesn't seem to be anything to prohibit this. Then the loop can continue indefinitely, everyone having an infinite number of vassals.
Well thats a way to approach the issue.~;)
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 20:37
Unless you can be your own vassal by proxy, and there doesn't seem to be anything to prohibit this. Then the loop can continue indefinitely, everyone having an infinite number of vassals.
Since you have to swear to someone else, I'm pretty sure you can not be your own vassal.
(Why do I feel like we're having the "Fry is is own grandfather" debate...) :laugh4:
Also, you can only have 1 lord. In a circle, isn't everyone your lord? :dizzy2:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-23-2008, 20:42
If this is possible then I will be Duke??
Now .. when can he swear Oath to me then?? :clown:
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 20:44
If this is possible then I will be Duke??
Now .. when can he swear Oath to me then?? :clown:
Well, if we want to entertain this idea for the sake of academic debate, you'll have to first serve 5 turns as Antypatos. Then 5 as Patriosomethingorother. Then you can be Duke. :clown:
Is it me or does this conversation seem less and less about Lords and Vassals and more and more like a discussion on the space-time continuum :inquisitive:?
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 20:51
It also would seem to defeat the idea of a feudal system. (Not that we really try to recreate the feudal system anyways.)
Instead of a top-down power structure, what FD is talking about seems more like a commune or a collective.
Sounds like a new game...
First of the Socialists?
:clown:
It's interesting you should mention the space-time continuum. This is not unlike black hole, you see, which is essentially a discontinuity in space. But space generally has to be continuous locally, which it is (if you zoom in enough), except at the very point of singularity.
This is how I will refute PK's last argument.
Since you have to swear to someone else, I'm pretty sure you can not be your own vassal.
Also, you can only have 1 lord. In a circle, isn't everyone your lord?
Locally, you have one vassal and one lord, neither of whom is you. All the other people, including yourself, are your lord of lord of lord... or vassal of vassal of vassal... etc. But that's all far away. You only swore one oath to a different person, and some other person swore an oath to you. This is consistent with the current rules locally (i.e. special relativity on flat space-time), but the whole thing is now inside a black hole (as in general relativity with curved space-time).
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 20:58
No, more Futurama.
Sorry, but this game is full of Futurama fans. Myself included. I have all 4 of the box sets plus the 2 new movies.
Futurama quotes are inevitable.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Morbo: Morbo will now introduce the candidates - Puny Human Number One, Puny Human Number Two, and Morbo's good friend Richard Nixon.
Richard Nixon's Head: How's the family, Morbo?
Morbo: Belligerent and numerous.
:laugh4:
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 21:00
It's interesting you should mention the space-time continuum. This is not unlike black hole, you see, which is essentially a discontinuity in space. But space generally has to be continuous locally, which it is (if you zoom in enough), except at the very point of singularity.
This is how I will refute PK's last argument.
Locally, you have one vassal and one lord, neither of whom is you. All the other people, including yourself, are your lord of lord of lord... or vassal of vassal of vassal... etc. But that's all far away. You only swore one oath to a different person, and some other person swore an oath to you. This is consistent with the current rules locally (i.e. special relativity on flat space-time), but the whole thing is now inside a black hole (as in general relativity with curved space-time).
So, if we all agree that the LotR universe is inside a black hole, then we can all swear to eachother in 6 person circles? :clown:
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Basileus got us into a comet field, so we'd just have to steer towards that empty region of space over there, near that blackish holish thing.
So, if we all agree that the LotR universe is inside a black hole, then we can all swear to eachother in 6 person circles? :clown:
Wouldn't it be six, six person circles?
Privateerkev
07-23-2008, 21:10
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Basileus got us into a comet field, so we'd just have to steer towards that empty region of space over there, near that blackish holish thing.
That is a good point. It would be like Ig to try such a thing.
His family crest should read, "Today Scotland, Tomorrow the Universe!"
:clown:
Wouldn't it be six, six person circles?
No, there are only 30 of us. And the Emperor can't swear to anyone. So it would be 4 6 person circles and 1 5 person circle. ^_^
...No, there are only 30 of us. And the Emperor can't swear to anyone. So it would be 4 6 person circles and 1 5 person circle. ^_^
No, I think it would be 4 circles of six circles of six. Since each person is the beginning and end of the feudal chain, then each person counts as a starting point, and therefore there are six circles within a six circle feudal chain.
And I am suddenly glad we don't have 37 players...:clown:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-23-2008, 21:25
Scratches his head ...
This is confusing :inquisitive:
Ramses II CP
07-24-2008, 01:20
For the sake of clarity, Iconium was exterminated, not sacked, correct?
:egypt:
Yup, it was exterminated.
Northnovas
07-24-2008, 03:20
Im back. Meaning my internet problems involving accessing Org from home are over. Now i just have to think of bloody good IC reasons for my character being paralyzed all this time.:sweatdrop:
Not back yet though internet access wasn't the issue it was the game itself. ~:doh:
I now have the same issue IC on the quietness of the character. There has been IC pm and I have been following along for the past 2 weeks but I just couldn't get into a story to contribute with the character or a debate. Now I will have to wait till the weekend is over before I can see a save game and do something with the character. :embarassed:
After all work it's play time but the summer weather here has been wet wet wet. :furious3:
There is an old song saying " it doesn't rain in Indianapolis in the summer time" I sure hope so because that is where I will be hanging out at the "brickyard" this weekend. :cool4:
Maybe Kage and I can do a joint story of consuming some homemade ouzo before the wedding and were temporarily blinded and paralyzed. :jester:
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 03:35
Save made available at Yesterday, 19:48
Ig took the save Today, 17:05
Can we please get 24 hours of open save time per rule 1.4? Cecil had something he had to do.
A 2 hour and 40 minute difference might not sound like much but some of us only have a few hour window to access the save every 24 hours. :yes:
Ignoramus
07-24-2008, 03:56
I'm really sorry about that. I must have misread when TC made the save available. But I'd hate to have to redo all my actions again. What should we do about this?
Also, does OK need to access the save after I'm finished, or can I end the turn?
Edit: The private armies are confusing when there are two in one settlement. I can't tell what's what.
I'm really sorry about that. I must have misread when TC made the save available. But I'd hate to have to redo all my actions again. What should we do about this?
Also, does OK need to access the save after I'm finished, or can I end the turn?
Edit: The private armies are confusing when there are two in one settlement. I can't tell what's what.
I think OK made the crusader moves for this year. You might as well do Cecil's move before you're done (once they tell you what it was).
As far as two merged private armies go, as long as there are enough troops in the stack to meet the requirement of two private armies together (i.e. each unit type times two), then you haven't anything to worry about. You might want to merge depleted units to make the count easier. Of course, if you're talking about Iconium, there are three people there who are qualified for private armies, but we're not raising that issue quite yet. :beam:
I take it no one is waiting on an avatar? The one offered for adoption to Kosmas is actually pretty good statwise (actually close to what I'm hoping for my next character), but if nobody expects to need an avatar soon, the slot might be better used for a MOTH or child that would grow about the time everyone's avatars were getting older.
Just got a message from someone who wants the new avatar. Go ahead with the adoption, Ignoramus. :yes:
Ituralde
07-24-2008, 10:15
Just a short note that I'm joining all those vacation guys around here and will be out of town from tomorrow onwards. Something in the range of one or two weeks, our holiday planning is quite fluid at the moment. I'll probably have some internet access in-between. See you then! :2thumbsup:
Bah, I just returned back to work after 2 weeks and 2 days of summer holiday :furious3:
_Tristan_
07-24-2008, 10:35
Think it is time to notify all of you that I'll be away from the 1st of August until the 23rd../
I should have some limited Internet access and possible access to the game but there is nothing definite at this point...
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 14:06
I'm really sorry about that. I must have misread when TC made the save available. But I'd hate to have to redo all my actions again. What should we do about this?
Also, does OK need to access the save after I'm finished, or can I end the turn?
Edit: The private armies are confusing when there are two in one settlement. I can't tell what's what.
It's cool. It was just something I wanted to be kept in mind for next time.
I really need 24 hour windows. For 4 days a week, I sleep for 8 hours, get ready for 1, then work for 10. That gives me 5 hours to get to the save and play it. If the save is not available in that window, I'll have to go to bed late or run home for lunch.
And I know I already played the save once last turn but I forgot to do something for someone. Before the Crusades, I was making moves for 7 people. So I tend to go in and out of the save depending on when people get back to me.
Cecil's move this turn was by no means critical but if it was something like assaulting a settlement then I'd be a little miffed.
So, the point is, please give me 24 hours. :beam:
Meh, last night I wanted to take the save and EF had it.
No problem, I thought, I'll continue my current vanilla M2TW campaign and pick up the save later.
About an hour or so later, I want to grab the save and Kage has it.
So, I leave the PC and watch some tele with the wife. Before going to sleep, I log on again, to find out that FlyDude had the save :wall:
It was a most frustrating experience :mean:
I gave myself 30 minutes before going to bed. Luckily, FlyDude posted the new save rather quickly... :sweatdrop: But if he would have fought a battle, I wouldn't have been able to move my character, allthough I was logged on within the 24 hours time frame.
Anyway, if more players will become active, maybe it'll be best to make the turn a bit longer and the save available for more than 24 hours? I mean, if we would have 30 active players that would take the save each turn, it'll be quite a struggle to be able to have the save in the 24 hours that it's available.
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 15:11
Anyway, if more players will become active, maybe it'll be best to make the turn a bit longer and the save available for more than 24 hours? I mean, if we would have 30 active players that would take the save each turn, it'll be quite a struggle to be able to have the save in the 24 hours that it's available.
You can ask the Megas for an extension. He has to meet a 24 hour minimum but he can make the time longer if there is enough demand for the save.
Another thing you can do is PM the Megas and ask him IC, or OOC if his character hates your character, to make your moves for you. Even if you have your SOT set to limit him from moving your avatar, sending him a PM with a specific move request is the same as giving him specific permission to move your avatar in a specific way. He won't be able to interrpret that creatively or anything.
That might help the traffic jam situation that will undoubtably develop. :yes:
Kagemusha
07-24-2008, 15:33
Can someone check the Pevergreens save and confirm its not corrupted? to me it looks like thats the case.EDIT: Third times the charm. Now got an uncorrupted one.
OverKnight
07-24-2008, 16:31
Just as a reminder:
The game is now open for play, with the following provisions:
. . .
None of these avatars may be moved by anyone. When all other turns are completed, I (or, more properly, my proxy OverKnight) will take the save and make the necessary changes for the Crusade. Once that is completed, the game can advance. The game may never move onto the next turn until I have made the necessary changes. As I mentioned before, my temporary absense from home complicates this process a bit, and turns will probably be a bit slower until this coming Sunday. I apologize for this once again.
I added the emphasis on not advancing the turn until the Crusade changes were made. They haven't been for this turn, as I'm waiting to hear from TC, so Ignoramus shouldn't move past 1111 until they are.
This should give people plenty of time to move.
Kagemusha
07-24-2008, 17:13
Remember guys. This is all IC. Kantakouzinos is back after everything in his plans has gone other way then he wanted. He is not exactly a pleasant fellow to have a round.:yes:
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 17:20
Remember guys. This is all IC. Kantakouzinos is back after everything in his plans has gone other way then he wanted. He is not exactly a pleasant fellow to have a round.:yes:
I'm having a great time! :beam:
Anything said in the Magnuara is strictly IC.
OOC, I exterminate in my SP games all the time for either RP reasons or purely real-politick reasons.
But Mak just gained 3 chiv and got up to 5 chiv. He can't just sit there quietly.
I'm happy we finally have a chance to get some real IC public debate going. Let the games begin and keep in mind that OOC it's all ~:grouphug:
:2thumbsup:
Kagemusha
07-24-2008, 17:24
I'm having a great time! :beam:
Anything said in the Magnuara is strictly IC.
OOC, I exterminate in my SP games all the time for either RP reasons or purely real-politick reasons.
But Mak just gained 3 chiv and got up to 5 chiv. He can't just sit there quietly.
I'm happy we finally have a chance to get some real IC public debate going. Let the games begin and keep in mind that OOC it's all ~:grouphug:
:2thumbsup:
:2thumbsup:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-24-2008, 17:26
OOC, I exterminate in my SP games all the time for either RP reasons or purely real-politick reasons.
:2thumbsup:
I think you are not the only one :laugh4:
_Tristan_
07-24-2008, 17:36
I maybe the biggest sacker in the hiostory of the game... I just can't resist the appeal of the florin but IC Iwon't stand for a single loss of life...
IC, guys, IC... :2thumbsup:
Real fun... Just the spark we needed... The tinder was ready...
I'm loving this, first proper argument I've seen. Can I just ask OOC why you did it?
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 17:48
I'm loving this, first proper argument I've seen. Can I just ask OOC why you did it?
Are you asking why EF exterminated Iconium or why we are condemning it?
As for the former, it seems like something his character would do.
As for the latter, it seemed like something my character would do.
:beam:
Kagemusha
07-24-2008, 17:53
For my part, i just want to stir up the game. More strife, more interesting game. I could not effectively play for weeks, but now that i can, i wont stay idle.:smash:
I'm happy we finally have a chance to get some real IC public debate going.
That is exactly what I intended, and Hypatios is an evil so and so which made the decision easy :beam:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-24-2008, 17:54
I'm loving this, first proper argument I've seen. Can I just ask OOC why you did it?
I'm loving this too :2thumbsup:
I really would like to know why EF did it.. :yes:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-24-2008, 17:55
That is exactly what I intended, and Hypatios is an evil so and so which made the decision easy :beam:
You naughty naughty boy :beam:
Cheers, I thought he either did it by accident or to try and stir everything up. It seems the latter and I'm glad.
Ramses II CP
07-24-2008, 18:09
Heh, well, since Iconium is going be an Asteri holding in the long run it mostly hurts them, but it does make for some fun IC stuff. :laugh4:
Let's see if we can have a civil war during the crusade, eh?
:egypt:
Oh, it's on now :smash:.
I'm having a blast turning Iakovos into a very angry, pale horse riding, disgruntled warrior monk :2thumbsup:
I liked your little outburst there.
Kagemusha
07-24-2008, 18:43
Im really ready to get this character dead in a bodyguards vs bodyguards MP game if needs to be, so Ioannis is not just talking for the heck of it, when he is challenging people.:smash:
I'm not sure you should be able to floor someone's avatar without their permission though...
edit: and MP battles aren't always fair, some bodyguards are different sizes, some generals have traits that affect hitpoints, some have more chevrons than are allowed in MP. It never works perfectly.
Kagemusha
07-24-2008, 18:52
I'm not sure you should be able to floor someone's avatar without their permission though...
edit: and MP battles aren't always fair, some bodyguards are different sizes, some generals have traits that affect hitpoints, some have more chevrons than are allowed in MP. It never works perfectly.
Yep.You got a point there about mp. About the flooring, i dont mind, Kantakouzinos is more or less mad and it doesnt matter if he gets punched in the face for being one.
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 18:52
I'm not sure you should be able to floor someone's avatar without their permission though...
EF is totally right.
You can write your character's action but you can not write another character's reaction without the permission of the other player.
"A takes a swing at B" is ok.
"A takes a swing at B and knocks him down to the laughter of the crowds" is only ok if the player of B agrees to it.
*edit*
NM, Kag has clearly given OOC permission for the flooring.
Ituralde
07-24-2008, 20:05
And so it's beginning to fall apart! :beam:
I love it, I really hope more comes of this than idle wordplay. :evilgrin: Too bad I'm going on vacation just now, but it will be interesting to see how this develops...
Just so you know Hypatios isn't coming down because I'm still writing a story with Flax and YLC, he might come down after that or wait until the next senate session.
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 20:13
And so it's beginning to fall apart! :beam:
I love it, I really hope more comes of this than idle wordplay. :evilgrin: Too bad I'm going on vacation just now, but it will be interesting to see how this develops...
I have a feeling some things are already being set in motion.
It seems players are finally starting to feel the empowerment that the rules gives them. Which is a good thing even though I suspect it will cause me some IC headaches. :sweatdrop:
Just so you know Hypatios isn't coming down because I'm still writing a story with Flax and YLC, he might come down after that or wait until the next senate session.
Well his absence is still a perfectly good thing to continue pillorying. :2thumbsup:
Kagemusha
07-24-2008, 20:15
And so it's beginning to fall apart! :beam:
I love it, I really hope more comes of this than idle wordplay. :evilgrin: Too bad I'm going on vacation just now, but it will be interesting to see how this develops...
I hope you will have a nice vacation Ituralde.:2thumbsup:
Ramses II CP
07-24-2008, 20:22
If you're waiting for someone to attack you I doubt that will happen simply because your opponents are all chivalrous. That's what the debate is about, right? Hence Vissa's invitation to attack him...
As far as a BG vs BG (Unless one of them has a substantial negaitve HP trait) fight it'll come down to the two avatars swinging away surrounded by dead BGs and be effectively random who wins. Try it out a few times. :yes:
:egypt:
Kagemusha
07-24-2008, 20:46
If you're waiting for someone to attack you I doubt that will happen simply because your opponents are all chivalrous. That's what the debate is about, right? Hence Vissa's invitation to attack him...
As far as a BG vs BG (Unless one of them has a substantial negaitve HP trait) fight it'll come down to the two avatars swinging away surrounded by dead BGs and be effectively random who wins. Try it out a few times. :yes:
:egypt:
I know that perfectly well. Like i said before, im willing to flip the coin with my avatar if needs to be. In some point in this game we will start killing each others avatars in this game and i have no problem with my avatar dying at any point. I really much doubt that a noble would listen to the language and actions without reaction if he was in my characters shoes.:yes:
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 20:55
I know that perfectly well. Like i said before, im willing to flip the coin with my avatar if needs to be. In some point in this game we will start killing each others avatars in this game and i have no problem with my avatar dying at any point. I really much doubt that a noble would listen to the language and actions without reaction if he was in my characters shoes.:yes:
Sorry Kag but Mak sees himself as quite above Kantakouzinos and will not be taking the bait no matter how many threatening notes Kantakouzinos sends. :laugh4:
Someone else might take you up on it though. :yes:
woad&fangs
07-24-2008, 21:00
Luckily, Solomon exited the Magnaura before Kantouzkinos entered, otherwise he'd accept a duel and most likely get himself killed. :jester:
Kagemusha
07-24-2008, 21:14
Sorry Kag but Mak sees himself as quite above Kantakouzinos and will not be taking the bait no matter how many threatening notes Kantakouzinos sends. :laugh4:
Someone else might take you up on it though. :yes:
I know that Makedonias wont put himself in the danger, he is not a fool. But then you cant really tell what are the real motives behind this little scene.~;)
Man, I just realized that after the MotH, I'm now brothers with Tagaris. It's just like Franconia all over again. :beam:
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 21:19
I know that Makedonias wont put himself in the danger, he is not a fool. But then you cant really tell what are the real motives behind this little scene.~;)
Oh I'm sure there are wheels within wheels going on here. :yes:
Man, I just realized that after the MotH, I'm now brothers with Tagaris. It's just like Franconia all over again. :beam:
Well, if Ampelas has a son, I can play him!
:laugh4:
If Kantouzkinos keeps pushing, Iakovos will only be to happy to put a Lance through him :clown:.
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Oh I'm sure there are wheels within wheels going on here. :yes:
That's all too true :laugh4:
PK, that's not nice, calling me an idiot after I left the building :laugh4:
Guess good ol' Savvas made the right decision by getting out of that place asap :sweatdrop:
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 21:43
PK, that's not nice, calling me an idiot after I left the building :laugh4:
Guess good ol' Savvas made the right decision by getting out of that place asap :sweatdrop:
Well, Mak has gotten tired of people trying to equate different acts. Antioch is a touchy subject for him and even hinting that it is as serious of an act as what Hypatios just did will not make him happy. :beam:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-24-2008, 22:00
Well, Mak has gotten tired of people trying to equate different acts. Antioch is a touchy subject for him and even hinting that it is as serious of an act as what Hypatios just did will not make him happy. :beam:
I think Makedonios have never been happy :beam:
Now, I'm pretty sure Anna isn't supposed to just barge in the Magnaura, but considering what she witnessed, it seemed appropriate.
I want to thank EF for stirring up so much trouble. This has been very entertaining so far.:beam:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-24-2008, 22:11
What will be done to a man who raises his hand against the princess??:inquisitive:
You do want to keep your hands, right? :clown:
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 22:17
I think Makedonios have never been happy :beam:
He's quite happy when he is not in the Senate! :laugh4:
What will be done to a man who raises his hand against the princess??:inquisitive:
Things will escalate quite fast... :2thumbsup:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-24-2008, 22:19
You do want to keep your hands, right? :clown:
Not that Efstathios uses them much:inquisitive:
Btw.. that Iconium thing.. I had something similar planned to one of the Crusade targets..
But now I can't do it because EF beat me do it :beam:
Privateerkev
07-24-2008, 22:21
Btw.. that Iconium thing.. I had something similar planned to one of the Crusade targets..
But now I can't do it because EF beat me do it :beam:
You can still try. :laugh4:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-24-2008, 22:24
You can still try. :laugh4:
I better wait and see what will happen to Hypatios:beam:
Wouldn't want to see Efstathios' head on a pike.. yet :clown:
Just a note that the internet here seems to have been repaired faster than usual, though with no guarantees of remaining that way. I'm still pretty busy, but I expect to be able to get the orders out to OK this evening my time. The game can move on once he has posted the alterations, which will be pretty simple for this turn.
Is OK ever going to appoint the Dean?
Ramses II CP
07-24-2008, 23:56
I know that perfectly well. Like i said before, im willing to flip the coin with my avatar if needs to be. In some point in this game we will start killing each others avatars in this game and i have no problem with my avatar dying at any point. I really much doubt that a noble would listen to the language and actions without reaction if he was in my characters shoes.:yes:
Don't mind flipping a coin with Vissa either, but a chivalry character can't exactly go attacking someone just because they said something contemtible. A different sort now...
That's the OOC equivilent to the IC invitation handed right out on a silver platter. Won't get any more obvious. :2thumbsup:
:egypt:
OverKnight
07-25-2008, 00:45
Dean appointed.
Grrrr, can't everyone wait until Aleksios is dead before you start fighting? I hate mediating, though I do like throwing my weight around. :laugh4:
I'll be doing the Crusade stuff soon.
Dean appointed.
Grrrr, can't everyone wait until Aleksios is dead before you start fighting? I hate mediating, though I do like throwing my weight around. :laugh4:
I'll be doing the Crusade stuff soon.
Don't worry, when your dead, will fight over the body :clown:
Ignoramus
07-25-2008, 03:15
One thing I noticed. 00jebus took the garrison from Sinop with him. I'm pretty sure this is technically illegal. I don't really mind, but I just wanted to nip this in the bud.
Also, do I have the all clear from you to take the save and end turn, OK?
OverKnight
07-25-2008, 03:38
Yeah, feel free to move on. Just keep in mind that all those extra ships are going to drive upkeep through the roof.
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 03:41
One thing I noticed. 00jebus took the garrison from Sinop with him. I'm pretty sure this is technically illegal. I don't really mind, but I just wanted to nip this in the bud.
Here is Ituralde's SOT: "Garrison: To remain at 1 unit of Town Militia, 1 unit of Spear Militia, 1 unit of Armenian Cavalry, and 1 unit of Alan Light Horsemen."
So, unless Ituralde PM'd 00jebus and ok'd it, it is quite illegal.
People need to double-check the SOT's before they make moves. :yes:
The extra costs for the ships and armies created for the Crusade will be reimbursed via console commands from now on. This is really only important for Ignoramus, but if the treasury seems a bit low during the Crusade, just wait for the Crusade-edited save for that turn and it will go up by an approximation of the extra upkeep to compensate.
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 03:50
So the Patriarch IS paying for it!
It would have been interesting IC if he didn't. :beam:
For IC purposes, no one is paying for it. The armies and fleets are volunteers who bring their own supplies or forage.
woad&fangs
07-25-2008, 04:22
This is the Ezekiel 25:17 I was refering to in the story thread.Ezekiel 25:17 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmvnXKRfdb8&feature=related)
It's much cooler than the real one.:jester:
OverKnight
07-25-2008, 05:24
Ah the Gospel of St. Jules.
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 07:11
Say "what" again!
Ignoramus
07-25-2008, 07:56
My deepest condolences, Andres. Sometimes the game is just mean.
Not much left of House Tagamata :(
My deepest condolences, Andres. Sometimes the game is just mean.
What? He rebelled? While he was on his way back home? :inquisitive:
:bigcry:
Why did he do that for?
Hmm. May I make a proposal that TC (authorizes OK to) bribe(s) him back with console money? I mean, now that we have civil wars and stuff, this sort of rebellion makes no sense. If you were to rebel against the Empire, you'd probably start a war... since you can. It makes no sense at all.
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 08:53
Hmm. May I make a proposal that TC (authorizes OK to) bribe(s) him back with console money? I mean, now that we have civil wars and stuff, this sort of rebellion makes no sense. If you were to rebel against the Empire, you'd probably start a war... since you can. It makes no sense at all.
I would vote against it though I'd be peeved if it happened to Methodios...
TC has already made provisions to remove almost all loyalty reducing traits, it is up to the players to act so that their avatars remain basically loyal on pain of seeing them rebel, IMHO.
I would vote against it though I'd be peeved if it happened to Methodios...
TC has already made provisions to remove almost all loyalty reducing traits, it is up to the players to act so that their avatars remain basically loyal on pain of seeing them rebel, IMHO.
IIRC, I asked through pm to remove the Unwatched by King treat. Last time I checked, that trait was still there :shrug:
Just checked the save, that potential adoptee is for Ioannis Kalameteros rather than Mavrozomis. Since deguerra's still out a few more days, shall we leave it to the Megas? Or maybe just have it rejected?
Ignoramus
07-25-2008, 09:15
Sorry about that Zim. I was sure it was Kosmas. I'd wait for TC to call concerning the adoption.
Regarding the rebellion of Savvas, I'd be against doing anything to undo it. In KotR I had Sigismund der Stolze assassinated, which I was filthy about for days. But it added to the drama of the game, and although it was really annoying to me, I soon accepted it and found another good general in Herr Hummel.
So, are there any avatars in the royal family available and of age :grin:
Ituralde
07-25-2008, 09:40
Just a general note, that I would be open and have no objections to altering any game mechanic rebellion of avatars. The game provides for enough IC ways to rebell against the Emperor and I find it adds a lot to the game if you're able to play low loyalty characters without having to fear loosing control over them.
A character death imposed by game mechanics is far easier to deal with than loosing control, if anything it should be up to the respective player if they want to enter rebel mode or not.
Ignoramus
07-25-2008, 10:11
So, are there any avatars in the royal family available and of age :grin:
Well, Isaakos and Andronikos are almost of age.:yes:
Kosmas adopted a character that's about 22 or so. :yes:
So, are there any avatars in the royal family available and of age :grin:
I'll await TC's decision on the matter. If I lose Savvas, I might chose one of those avatars suggested by Ignoramus or Zim.
Regarding the rebellion of Savvas, I'd be against doing anything to undo it. In KotR I had Sigismund der Stolze assassinated, which I was filthy about for days. But it added to the drama of the game, and although it was really annoying to me, I soon accepted it and found another good general in Herr Hummel.
I would normally agree, but this was my error in not removing the trait. Andres specifically asked me to and I forgot to kill it once it returned. His loyalty was only low due to my error and as such I cannot allow the rebellion to occur.
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 12:56
Glad the Savvas' "situation" was resolved this way...
Who would we have buying us drinks out of the Senate if not for Savvas ?
Here is Ituralde's SOT: "Garrison: To remain at 1 unit of Town Militia, 1 unit of Spear Militia, 1 unit of Armenian Cavalry, and 1 unit of Alan Light Horsemen."
So, unless Ituralde PM'd 00jebus and ok'd it, it is quite illegal.
People need to double-check the SOT's before they make moves. :yes:
My bad, I didn't check the SO, sorry Ituralde
Ituralde
07-25-2008, 13:50
I don't want to pile on blame or anything so please consider this to be apart from the discussion before and on a general note from the ever-inquiring Ituralde.
Does the SoT even play into this? Isn't the only one who is allowed to put people from a garrison under his command a character who has the requirements for a Royal or Private Army and the Megas Logothetes? Meaning that even if I had written nothing in the SoT, that would only mean that I would allow the Megas to mess around with the garrison of my city, but not every character who happens to stumble into my town? Am I seeing this right, or am I missing the point?
Ituralde, once again trying to find out the limits of characters! :book2:
the rules say without a posted build que, the megas can build whatever he wants in a characters settlement, I'd presume that without a SO post detailing armies and garrisons, the megas can do whatever he wants with them too.
But that, isn't in the rules, thankfully everyone with an army or settlement has an SO, so that problem shouldn't come up unless we get alot of new players who rise up the ranks very quickly but dont post an SO for whatever reason.
Ituralde
07-25-2008, 14:22
It's not about what the Megas can do, but about what every character can do. I think that no matter the SoT a character can do literally nothing with your settlement and its garrison, but I'm not sure, hence my question.
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 14:28
I would agree with you... The SoT relates only to what the Megas can do or allows other people to do with your avatar and any units he has with him...
At least that is how I see it...
deguerra
07-25-2008, 15:03
and breathe...
good god you people make me read a lot. I was gone for five days! Five days, not weeks. You people right enough to fill a novel in that space of time.
obviously expect to hear from ioannis soon, but I have to figure stuff out first.
good to be back.
Yeah sorry Tristan, after posting that I remembered what a mess M2 makes of ages and dates...
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 15:20
There is some foot stomping to be done, deguerra...:smash:
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 15:21
@ EF : Let's just say you never added that comment...:2thumbsup:
and we'll forget I got your avatar's age wrong...
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 15:45
@ KoP : Recruitment will not impact Iconium' population growth as M2TW got rid of that RTW feature, thank heavens...
Oh did it, crap, it sound OK IC though.
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 15:47
No problem, just for your info...
Are we going to lynch Hypatios?
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 15:57
Hang him, I say...
I say all senators just charge at him in multiplayer, that would be fun.
woad&fangs
07-25-2008, 16:06
We could always lock him up in a monastery.:jester:
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 16:14
We could always lock him up in a monastery.:jester:
Yes, something like this...
https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/meteor.jpg
:laugh4:
I liked the idea of exiling him on one of the Greek Islands with a watch tower on.
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 16:18
I don't want to pile on blame or anything so please consider this to be apart from the discussion before and on a general note from the ever-inquiring Ituralde.
Does the SoT even play into this? Isn't the only one who is allowed to put people from a garrison under his command a character who has the requirements for a Royal or Private Army and the Megas Logothetes? Meaning that even if I had written nothing in the SoT, that would only mean that I would allow the Megas to mess around with the garrison of my city, but not every character who happens to stumble into my town? Am I seeing this right, or am I missing the point?
Ituralde, once again trying to find out the limits of characters! :book2:
Here is the pertinent part of the rules:
1.4 – Game Management: At the start of each turn, the Megas Logothetes will post an annual report on the events of the last turn, including a save game file for the new turn. After the annual report is posted, players will have 24 hours to download the save, and make their personal moves. Players can move their avatars, move any army (Private, Royal, or otherwise) their avatar commands, move any military units that start the turn inside a settlement they control (garrison units), move any military units that start the turn inside a fort in a province they control (fort units), and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army.
Therefore, the only person who can take units out of Sinop is the Megas and Ituralde. And due to Ituralde's SOT, the Megas would have to leave the units listed but he can take out any others until Ituralde says different. The only legal way 00jebus could have taken those men out is if Ituralde gave him permission. :book:
Are we going to lynch Hypatios?
That should be figured out IC. If we do, there is a game mechanic for this but it would be a little clunky in this case. Basically, everyone would declare civil war on him and Asteri would break their oaths to/from him. Then he would be hunted. I don't know of any quicker way unless EF wants to suicide the avatar.
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 16:26
I've re-read the rules but I haven't been able to find a single indication of what exactly can be done during Emergency Senate session nor what is needed to call one ? :dizzy2:
On a lighter, WOOP 10 Loyalty lol, does this mean I am loyal to the Order or the Emperor as it will be interesting if Civil war break out.
Cecil XIX
07-25-2008, 16:27
He could always make his way to Norway, exterminate it, and found the Exarchate of Scandinavia. :2thumbsup:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 16:34
I've re-read the rules but I haven't been able to find a single indication of what exactly can be done during Emergency Senate session nor what is needed to call one ? :dizzy2:
The Emperor, Dux, and Exarch, can call one. Then we pass legislation if we want.
On a lighter, WOOP 10 Loyalty lol, does this mean I am loyal to the Order or the Emperor as it will be interesting if Civil war break out.
It is up to you to define your traits. They mean what you want them to mean. It could mean your loyal to the Emperor, the Emperor's cat, the Order, your province, your friends, yourself, the world, anything.
On a lighter, WOOP 10 Loyalty lol, does this mean I am loyal to the Order or the Emperor as it will be interesting if Civil war break out.
IIRC, at least regarding oath breaking and such vassals are loyal to their immediate liege lord (so if B breaks his oath to A then all of B's vassals (C) and vassals of vassals (D) follow B to the new structure).
For RP purposes I think it's up to the player how he wishes to play it (or not).
edit: beaten by the posting machine that is PK
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 16:52
IIRC, at least regarding oath breaking and such vassals are loyal to their immediate liege lord (so if B breaks his oath to A then all of B's vassals (C) and vassals of vassals (D) follow B to the new structure).
Yup. You take your chain with. (unless they then want to break their oaths and swear to someone else.) :yes:
edit: beaten by the posting machine that is PK
:laugh4:
OK, I think I'll keep it hidden for now.
AussieGiant
07-25-2008, 16:55
Oh PK, why are we going down this path again.
It was such a wonderful time until now. :balloon2:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 16:58
Oh PK, why are we going down this path again.
It was such a wonderful time until now. :balloon2:
It made sense IC. Mak really did not like hearing some of that stuff. Having the lives of people broken down into legalese made him cranky... :yes:
And our situations as compared to KotR are quite reversed... :beam:
Let day two of "As the Magnaura turns..." begin! :2thumbsup:
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 16:59
It has already got quite a spin if you ask me... :dizzy2:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 17:01
It has already got quite a spin if you ask me... :dizzy2:
I tend to make things spin faster when I jump in... ;)
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 17:06
That you do :laugh4:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 17:15
That you do :laugh4:
call it a gift. :bow:
I liked the idea of exiling him on one of the Greek Islands with a watch tower on.
Way to find a fun punishment for me :clown:
I prefer Cecil's idea though, I plead to OK to allow me to fly to Norway :clown:
edit: and PK, where would your gift be without me eh?
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 17:16
Anyway... So much for the spin... Seeing Mak back down from one raised eyebrow of Apionnas... :no: Not the PK I'm used to...
You've grown soft... :yes:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 17:17
edit: and PK, where would your gift be without me eh?
Oh I give you full credit for starting this circus. :laugh4:
I can tell a lot of us have just been itching to go at each other and you finally gave us the excuse we needed. :2thumbsup:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 17:20
Anyway... So much for the spin... Seeing Mak back down from one raised eyebrow of Apionnas... :no: Not the PK I'm used to...
You've grown soft... :yes:
Stop trying to provoke me OOC. :laugh4:
It's an art. If you spin on high speed all the time, it starts to lose impact. I learned that the hard way with Jan. The trick is to make each "hit" matter. So you ratchet up the drama, reach a high point, then back down a little. Later, ratchet it back up again. Repeat as needed for fun. :beam:
*edit*
Plus, this is the first time most of the characters have really argued with each other. I see it as representing the "jabs" and "ducks" of politics. We're all testing each other IC to see how far we can go and what gets a rise out of each other.
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 17:22
It is the most fun part since the beginning of LotR, if you ask me... The throat-gripping part...
Can't chide me for trying to put some more oil on the fire...
Ibn-Khaldun
07-25-2008, 17:24
I've re-read the rules but I haven't been able to find a single indication of what exactly can be done during Emergency Senate session nor what is needed to call one ? :dizzy2:
You need TC to call emergency senate session :beam:
What can be done there .. well .. that I do not know :shame:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 17:25
Can't chide me for trying to put some more oil on the fire...
I can chide you for doing it OOC. :beam:
I'm one of those people that want to see drama come about organically in the game, not because of OOC locker room style peer pressure. :laugh4:
In KotR, I always got miffed when I'd see people try to goad each other in the OOC thread to attack my character in the Diet.
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 17:26
It seems OK as Basileos could call one...
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 17:27
I can chide you for doing it OOC. :beam:
I'm one of those people that want to see drama come about organically in the game, not because of OOC locker room style peer pressure. :laugh4:
In KotR, I always got miffed when I'd see people try to goad each other in the OOC thread to attack my character in the Diet.
Roger that, sir.
Was worth a try, though... :yes:
I'm one of those people that want to see drama come about organically in the game, not because of OOC locker room style peer pressure. :laugh4:
In KotR, I always got miffed when I'd see people try to goad each other in the OOC thread to attack my character in the Diet.
*pushes PK up against a locker*
Pour oil on the fire now! :whip:
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 17:30
*pushes PK up against a locker*
Pour oil on the fire now! :whip:
:laugh4:
EF, always the masochist...:whip:
EDIT : Or is it the sadist ?.. What, with the whip...
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 17:35
You need TC to call emergency senate session :beam:
What can be done there .. well .. that I do not know :shame:
OK can call one as Tristan mentioned. Also, in a couple turns, deguerra can call one. If one is called, the game will freeze for a time determined by TC. People will have the oppurtunity to pass edicts, CA's, and impeach the Megas. Those things will then be voted on. Then we go about playing the game until the next real session or until another emergency session is called. :book:
Roger that, sir.
Was worth a try, though... :yes:
I'm sure there will be enough drama to go around. :beam:
*pushes PK up against a locker*
Pour oil on the fire now! :whip:
What are we, in junior high? :laugh4:
Haven't you done enough to stir up the game? :2thumbsup:
Ewww, I never said I got pleasure out of beating PK up :clown:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 17:38
Ewww, I never said I got pleasure out of beating PK up :clown:
Alright, I am nipping the innuendo in the bud right now before this goes any further. :brood:
At least ATPG isn't around... :laugh4:
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 17:38
Ewww, I never said I got pleasure out of beating PK up :clown:
My bad... :bow:
But perhaps you get your kicks getting beat up by PK...:whip:
Alright, I am nipping the innuendo in the bud right now before this goes any further. :brood:
At least ATPG isn't around... :laugh4:
He never seems to be around these days :no:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 17:42
But perhaps you get your kicks getting beat up by PK...:whip:
stop the innuendo... :brood:
:clown: <-- to take the edge off...
Ramses II CP
07-25-2008, 17:44
On a lighter, WOOP 10 Loyalty lol, does this mean I am loyal to the Order or the Emperor as it will be interesting if Civil war break out.
IMHO the loyalty traits display how loyal you are, not how loyal you are to something. So if you've sworn to the Emperor and the Order it would be very hard for you to break that oath, unless you were loyal to something else (i.e. Fritz in KotR being loyal to the Illuminati) over the top of that.
Vissa, for a counter example, is not loyal at all and may actually rebel at the drop of a hat. I hadn't even noticed, since he was piling up absurd traits from the supply system anyway. As long as the game doesn't decide to rebel him it'll make for a fun ride. :laugh4:
:egypt:
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 17:49
Same with Methodios, his loyalty level fluctuates between 2 and 4 so I do not thinkof him as tied up by any agreement he makes though he will always try to act honorably (due to his high chiv...)
And that is not speaking of his bottom level piety... I'm happy there are no Byzantine inquisitors or Methodios would already be at the stake... :devil:
Wow, I fall asleep for 8 hours and now I'm totally lost :dizzy2:
Tristan, why not ask to have the pagan magician removed?
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 18:57
Because it fits my character.... Snorri (the magician) is an integral part of my character...
EDIT : Could the "Disobeys his liege" and "Title stolen !" be removed from Methodios ? that pushes his loyalty a bit too low to my taste...
Therefore, the only person who can take units out of Sinop is the Megas and Ituralde. And due to Ituralde's SOT, the Megas would have to leave the units listed but he can take out any others until Ituralde says different. The only legal way 00jebus could have taken those men out is if Ituralde gave him permission. :book:
This is correct.
I've re-read the rules but I haven't been able to find a single indication of what exactly can be done during Emergency Senate session nor what is needed to call one ? :dizzy2:
Various ranks have the ability to call an Emergency Session. At a minimum, the Basileus can always do it. If you do not have a rank that allows you to call one, you need to convince someone else who can to do so.
Everything that can be done during a normal Senate session can be done during an Emergency Senate session. The only real exception is elections for Megas which cannot occur during an Emergency session unless the serving Megas is impeached first.
EDIT : Could the "Disobeys his liege" and "Title stolen !" be removed from Methodios ? that pushes his loyalty a bit too low to my taste...
Yes to the Title Stolen! trait, since that was the result of me removing the Zagreb ancillary from you. I'm not sure about 'Disobeys his liege,' though. If that isn't part of the Unwatched by the King line, you will have to live with it or get legislation passed that allows for it to be removed.
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 20:09
Disobedient is not linked to the Unwatched by king (Far_Loyalty) but rather the Disobedient line of traits which relates only to Family Members.
I will live with it if I have to but I do not see how Methodios got that trait in game... Though joining the "Crusade" could explain it...
Ibn-Khaldun
07-25-2008, 20:42
When did TC promised to come back??
I just noticed that the Senate Library haven't been updated :no:
_Tristan_
07-25-2008, 21:23
Damn this game... :furious3:
Of all things my daughter had to be named Hypatia... :wall:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-25-2008, 22:05
Isn't that a nice name ...
What happens if Hypatios will marry Hypatia??
A lot of Hypat-something called children??:clown:
Privateerkev
07-25-2008, 22:48
When did TC promised to come back??
I just noticed that the Senate Library haven't been updated :no:
He tends to update the library each Senate session so we know what influence we all have.
Isn't that a nice name ...
What happens if Hypatios will marry Hypatia??
A lot of Hypat-something called children??:clown:
If his son had 2 vassals, would we call him Hypatos Hypatiosa son of Hypatios?
:clown:
Ibn-Khaldun
07-25-2008, 22:58
If his son had 2 vassals, would we call him Hypatos Hypatiosa son of Hypatios?
:clown:
:laugh4:
I hope we would not come to that point!!
It would be too confusing :beam:
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