OOC Thread and Chatroom

[Privateerkev]

SS has an 'education' system for avatars that have just come of age. For 4 years after they come of age, they pick up certain positive traits based on being located in certain qualifying locations (like the capital or a castle with a library building). This doesn't work for RBGs or adopted avatars, so it's not going to be of much use to most LotR players.

Gotcha.

I have an idea about the university. What about allowing anyone to "home-school" but it takes twice as long? That way, if the Dean hates certain avatars, those avatars can still change their traits, but at a slower rate.

Even if my college expels me, I can still go home and read a bunch of books on my own. But it does take longer due to having to work more (since you can't support yourself with financial aid) and lacking the structure of coursework.

It wouldn't really add extra work for the GM since the system would already be in place. At the beginning of the term, each player submits to the GM their trait. If that player's avatar is enrolled in the university, it only takes 1 term to affect the trait. If they aren't, it takes 2 terms.

Any thoughts?

[Ituralde]

I would be that poor sod.

In that case I'm all for it! :2thumbsup:

No seriously. I thought a bit about it and I have to say that it depends for me on what kind of traits will be modified through this system. One of the incentives of fighting battles has always been that you could progress your character that way. Often the traits gained there only affect battle statistics but sometimes they don't. I just wouldn't like it if I was out in the field for a term or two and suddenly some guy from the University comes along that is a far better general...

I would not like these trait manipulations to be so strong that it becomes compulsive to join the University or that members are suddenly vastly superior to other Senators. That would reduce the flavour and really make it into a system where everybody just submits the trait they want changed and doesn't think about it until the next or next-over term comes along. (So basically I don't like your homeschooling idea, PK :beam: )

If it is tied in properly into RP situations and interaction with the University I wouldn't mind such a system as it adds another layer of interaction and intrigue, which is always a good thing. Make it focused on governing traits and also let the players learn new stuff instead of having to stick with your old things. It also gives people something else to do with their avatar other than going out and fighting battles. Let's face it, we skipped the phase where we played merely generals a long time ago.


So just in essence for the quick reader. Don't limit it to only traits your general already has, but make theoretical traits available to them. I like the focus on governing YLC put forward, but it does not have to be limited to it. One trait per term sounds good! The only thing that would probably cause heavy discussion is which traits to include and which not. Since I don't have a clue about the trait system of SS I can't really say much about it...

[Privateerkev]

No seriously. I thought a bit about it and I have to say that it depends for me on what kind of traits will be modified through this system. One of the incentives of fighting battles has always been that you could progress your character that way. Often the traits gained there only affect battle statistics but sometimes they don't. I just wouldn't like it if I was out in the field for a term or two and suddenly some guy from the University comes along that is a far better general...

Limit it to only 1 level of traits that can be gained. That way, fighting battles is still the main way of gaining traits but the university provides an option for those avatars that are stuck in settlements with no army to command.


I would not like these trait manipulations to be so strong that it becomes compulsive to join the University or that members are suddenly vastly superior to other Senators. That would reduce the flavour and really make it into a system where everybody just submits the trait they want changed and doesn't think about it until the next or next-over term comes along. (So basically I don't like your homeschooling idea, PK :beam: )

In my "homeschooling" idea, it would take 10 avatar years to gain even 1 trait. In the avatar's lifetime, he would gain about 4 traits. I don't see this as overpowering.

[TinCow]

I'll try and take a look at the trait system this weekend and see if I can come up with a list of things that seem like they could be plausibly influenced by education. I agree about not letting people get traits that are typically identified with battle victories. However, there may be some basic command or logistics traits that could reasonably be earned though study. Perhaps some traits like this could be earned in the University, but only advanced to level 1, and not beyond.

[TheFlax]

Thanks to Zim I've just noticed that Areovindos has developed an anomaly in his stats.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/The_Flax/Areo.jpg

He went from 3 piety to 10 for no reason at all. :inquisitive:

Is there anyway to fix this?

[Privateerkev]

We could just ignore it and go by the traits themselves. Which would give you a piety of 3 since that is the "baseline" for new avatars.

*edit*

And no, I have no idea how to fix it. :shrug:

[TinCow]

Eek. I'll take a look at that this weekend along with everything else.

[ULC]

Would it be considered in bad taste to try and support my own preposition? I have a few more ideas about it.

I was thinking maybe a committee could be formed that would be able to propose a "Dean" to the Basileus, although not necessarily limiting him to it. The committee would be formed from either the ruling member of each house, or simply one member of each house would take part, thus giving each house equal selection in the Dean and preventing larger houses from hogging the University. They would be able to select a willing candidate(s) from among any of the nobility, provided they are not the Megas or hold any other global title (in house titles do not count for this purpose) A vote would be cast, one vote per committee member, for each proposed candidate, and the winning candidate would then be proposed to the Basileus, who then can decide to either ignore the committees proposal and select one he wants, or allow the candidate to become the "Dean."

EDIT: Oh, and I would also like to put in a possible title, and first candidate: "The Imperial Librarian" and Anna as the First "Librarian"? (Would Basilaetos Bibliothikarios be the correct usage for Imperial Librarian?)

[Zim]

Sounds interesting, would commitee members be able to select one of their own as a possible dean?

[ULC]

I should think so, although this might create implications I haven't thought of, not implying anything there :clown:

[deguerra]

I'd be ok with a committee, if only to give more people the chance to RP a bit. On that note, while representatives from Houses are fine (who am I to argue with someone granting me a vote :P) I would advocate them not being House leaders as they got to do a lot of RPing as it stands. Ideally, we want to get as many people as involved with the game as possible.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I hereby form my own one-member committee to discuss the potential long-term ramifications of allowing me to continue to unilaterally decide the direction of my character without prior authorization from myself.



EDIT: On second thought, I am not the senior member of the committee, so I don't have authorization to form the committee itself. The senior member is only available on Sundays.

Sundays, being the first day of the proper week, entitle me to seniority over myself for the rest of the week.

[Privateerkev]

I'd be ok with a committee, if only to give more people the chance to RP a bit. On that note, while representatives from Houses are fine (who am I to argue with someone granting me a vote :P) I would advocate them not being House leaders as they got to do a lot of RPing as it stands. Ideally, we want to get as many people as involved with the game as possible.

How about the House leaders each pick a member to sit on the committee. If they wish to pick themselves, that is fine. But they can chose to pick one of their House members who actually want to do it.

I see the committee idea as causing extra work, for little benefit. If we are going to do it, we might as well fill the positions with people who want to do it.

I would prefer to do without the committee entirely but that's just my opinion.

[flyd]

Same here, I don't see the benefits of committees. Not in this particular case, and not in general either. Selection by Basileus is the best option, and if you want to get the houses involved, then make it so they have to approve his candidate by a simple majority in a vote. If the candidate fails to pass, then the Basileus can nominate someone else, but the voting for that could take place while the game keeps going.

[Ignoramus]

That's an extremely good point TC.

Igno, lets not take my observation too far. You're the original maniac in these games so some semblance of normality would be appreciated. :clown:

I guess I won't buy Scotland then...

:laugh4:

[Privateerkev]

The King of the Germans has declared war on the Fatimids of Egypt, who are currently in possession of Jerusalem. I believe this means that the Germans have assembled a crusade, which will be passing through our lands shortly.

And just what do the Germans think they are doing? Are they trying to atone for their sins by going on crusade because their Kaiser just killed a Pope?

:clown:

[Ituralde]

If the Crusade is led by Maximilian Mandorf, Otto von Kassel or even Heinrich himself I don't know if I could resist attacking them! :2thumbsup:

Or did SS change the HRE names?

[Privateerkev]

If the Crusade is led by Maximilian Mandorf, Otto von Kassel or even Heinrich himself I don't know if I could resist attacking them! :2thumbsup:

Or did SS change the HRE names?

Oh I hope not...

That would just be too funny. :beam:

We can not allow the Germans to get a foothold in the Holy Land. Before you know it, they'll breed like rabbits and we'll have Jens, Wolfgangs, Dieters, and... Jans... o_O

:clown:

Of course if that happens, we can always marry a princess to their Kaiser and hope he's dumb enough to sell us Outremer. :laugh4:

[Ituralde]

Of course if that happens, we can always marry a princess to their Kaiser and hope he's dumb enough to sell us Outremer. :laugh4:

QFT! :laugh4:

[Prince Cobra]

:2thumbsup:

Excellent work! Many things are well-done... Well, the Byzantine feudal system did not work exactly that way... but the game is so good that this can be forgiven.

I've just looked into the heraldy and the Byzantine dress. Very good threads and I were reminded a few things I have forgotten about the Byzantine dress.

I'll continue to watch this with great interest. Keep on!

[TinCow]

I suppose I should mention that I am going to be out of town on a business trip from Sunday, July 20th through Sunday July 27th. Based on the current speed of the game, this could overlap with the next Magnaura session. I will have internet access while I am gone, but my laptop can't handle M2TW, so I can't do anything that requires access to the game. This shouldn't be a problem for the Magnaura session itself, but depending on the timing I might have to slow things down a bit to make sure that I can access the game before the next Megas term begins. I would probably do this by simply extending the Magnaura debate period, so that you guys would have something to do. I'll let you know in more certain details as we get closer to 1110 AD.

[AussieGiant]

Sounds sensible TC.

I might have to pick a fight in the next session...the Lawn Bowling party needs a little bit of spice.

In my view, if PK's supposition is accurate on this topic, then it's a poor exchange of functionality to lose the rough and tumble in the Diet for "potentially" lethal civil wars.

[Privateerkev]

I might have to pick a fight in the next session...the Lawn Bowling party needs a little bit of spice.

Sounds like the Dread Duke needs Jan to liven things up. :clown:

You can always start scheming through letter writing. You've made it your avatar's duty to protect Igno. I'm sure there are things you can do since that duty will probably keep you very busy. :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

Sounds like the Dread Duke needs Jan to liven things up. :clown:

You can always start scheming through letter writing. You've made it your avatar's duty to protect Igno. I'm sure there are things you can do since that duty will probably keep you very busy. :laugh4:

It's funny you mentioned that PK...things are developing in some strange ways. I think I've signed up to be a bloody IC body guard. :beam:

[Privateerkev]

It's funny you mentioned that PK...things are developing in some strange ways. I think I've signed up to be a bloody IC body guard. :beam:

Ah how the wheel turns. We've seemed to have switched positions. In KotR, I was a Kaiser loyalist while you were a Duchy first kind of guy. Now we've seemed to flip.

Just remember, the hard thing about being a loyalist to the monarch is, sometimes they do things very unexpected. Like selling Sicily and Outremer to another faction. Then, all of a sudden, you find yourself trying to defend actions which are really hard to defend.

Something tells me the Caesar will force you into some of those "Oh crap, why did he just make my life really !@#$ing hard" moments. :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

Ah how the wheel turns. We've seemed to have switched positions. In KotR, I was a Kaiser loyalist while you were a Duchy first kind of guy. Now we've seemed to flip.

Just remember, the hard thing about being a loyalist to the monarch is, sometimes they do things very unexpected. Like selling Sicily and Outremer to another faction. Then, all of a sudden, you find yourself trying to defend actions which are really hard to defend.

Something tells me the Caesar will force you into some of those "Oh crap, why did he just make my life really !@#$ing hard" moments. :laugh4:

Yes the roles have swapped.

I'm sure Igno will be fine. At least I know him...it's the 3rd Kaiser I'm worried about :clown:

[ULC]

Not grab the proverbial horse by the reins and be a complete spoil sport, but I was wondering what we were going to do about the University. The topic quickly deviated after ATPG jumped in...:clown:

[Privateerkev]

Not grab the proverbial horse by the reins and be a complete spoil sport, but I was wondering what we were going to do about the University. The topic quickly deviated after ATPG jumped in...:clown:

TC said he was going to make a list of traits and get back to us.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The 3rd Magnaura Session will definitely be more interesting than the first two. You guys may have a lot to discuss.

[Cecil XIX]

Dun dun dunnn...

[Privateerkev]

:drama2:

[AussieGiant]

ppplease, what could possible liven things up. We are all getting along famously.

You guy's are just drama queens.

:egypt:

[Privateerkev]

says the guy who had his last character strut and yell in the diet...

:clown:

[AussieGiant]

says the guy who had his last character strut and yell in the diet...

:clown:

Strut!! I'd like to see someone say Arnold strutted around the diet..:balloon2:

Yell, well definitely, but strut...geez...that's just not on. :egypt:

[Privateerkev]

Strut!! I'd like to see someone say Arnold strutted around the diet..:balloon2:

Jan would say Arnold strutted around the Diet. :beam:

(of course Jan certainly did his share of strutting but would never admit it.) :clown:

[AussieGiant]

Jan would say Arnold strutted around the Diet. :beam:

(of course Jan certainly did his share of strutting but would never admit it.) :clown:

Stalking around the diet is my final offer.

And Jan would say that just to try and get into a fight. in the early days...sure, but retired in Tuscany...well not anymore. :egypt:

[flyd]

In these games, I think dramatic things have a way of being unpredictable. To the general audience, that is. Lots of stuff goes on behind the scenes, and then one morning you show up, read what has happened, and scoop pieces of your jaw off the floor.

[Privateerkev]

Stalking around the diet is my final offer.

And Jan would say that just to try and get into a fight. in the early days...sure, but retired in Tuscany...well not anymore. :egypt:

Sorry buddy, Arnold strutted like a peacock. :beam:

And yes, Jan would say that to get into a fight. (but he'd also be right.) :clown:


In these games, I think dramatic things have a way of being unpredictable. To the general audience, that is. Lots of stuff goes on behind the scenes, and then one morning you show up, read what has happened, and scoop pieces of your jaw off the floor.

This is very true. It's happened to me quite a few times. It's why I've learned to save the OOC thread for last when I'm catching up on threads because I've had surprises spoiled for me.

[AussieGiant]

And yes, Jan would say that to get into a fight. (but he'd also be right.) :clown:

You're just so wrong. :balloon2:

[Privateerkev]

You're just so wrong. :balloon2:

Have we all become so bored with this game, that we've taken to debating "stalking" versus "strutting"?

:laugh4:

[Cecil XIX]

Have we all become so bored with this game, that we've taken to debating "stalking" versus "strutting"?

:laugh4:

What about those of us watching you two debate 'stalking' versus 'strutting'? :beam:

[Privateerkev]

What about those of us watching you two debate 'stalking' versus 'strutting'? :beam:

Anyone who has been paying attention to this debate, must be really bored.

:clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Anyone who has been paying attention to this debate, must be really bored.

:clown:

You must be talking about be:inquisitive:

[Privateerkev]

Turns out Armatos was suffering from a -11 morale penalty. I'm not sure exactly how morale works in MII:TW, but I think that means General's Bodyguards' morale would be lower than regular peasents. Given that I'd only be fighting with Avatars, and we'd be outnumbered five-to-one, I hope my choice was correct.

I had no problems with Morale for the avatars in my battle. I say fight it out. If it's bad, just retreat from the battle. But I have a feeling the jedi avatars will do just fine. :yes:

*edit*

Or, if your not comfortable fighting the battle, let one of the other players who have avatars in the stack give it a try.

[Privateerkev]

Taking save.

:wall:

If a player refuses to fight the battle, the other players in the stack can fight it.

So, since Cecil refused, TheFlax, Rowan, YourLordandConqueror, and Bananabob can decide from amongst themselves who fights it.

I don't think Cecil can just retreat the whole stack himself and then post a save of it without talking to the rest of us.

:sweatdrop:

[deguerra]

i dont want to get into an argument that isn't mine, but he didn't refuse to fight the battle, nor was he unable, he simply decided that given the odds and morale, it would be better to retreat. Seems reasonable to me. He is the commanding officer after all.

[Privateerkev]

i dont want to get into an argument that isn't mine, but he didn't refuse to fight the battle, nor was he unable, he simply decided that given the odds and morale, it would be better to retreat. Seems reasonable to me. He is the commanding officer after all.

"If a player cannot fight a battle that is assigned to them, the battle may also be fought by any player whose avatar will also be present in the battle."

TC later made clear that this means if a player refuses to fight, then the other players in the stack can fight. Cecil decided for himself to retreat without attempting to contact the other 4 players (2 of which are online right now) and see if they wanted to fight it.

[flyd]

I think that's meant to prevent dangerous auto-resolves with other players in the stack. Cecil did fight the battle. He picked up the save and fought it... as a tactical withdrawal.

[Privateerkev]

YLC just asked me on MSN Messenger if he could fight the battle.

FD, can YLC quickly work off of Ig's save and fight it?

[Cecil XIX]

:wall:

If a player refuses to fight the battle, the other players in the stack can fight it.

So, since Cecil refused, TheFlax, Rowan, YourLordandConqueror, and Bananabob can decide from amongst themselves who fights it.

I don't think Cecil can just retreat the whole stack himself and then post a save of it without talking to the rest of us.

:sweatdrop:

This decision was not an easy or happy one. I did some research, trying to find if -11 Morale actually meant -11 to the morale stat. (And sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if it meant something different) I also looked at some unit stat tables to see what the morale stat for Greek Bodyguards are in Vanilla and SS 5.1. (Couldn't find SS 4.1, but betwen the two I think I got a good idea of it)

Given that I lost three avatars in KOTR, one of which because he was captured after routing, and that I would be fighting five different avatars outnumbered five-to-one, I could not justify fighting this battle.

[flyd]

Yes, if Cecil approves, since he is the commander of that stack.

[Privateerkev]

Alright Cecil, we're waiting on your word.

YLC is willing to fight the battle right now. FD has said that YLC can do it as long as you ok it.

What do you say?

[Cecil XIX]

Very well. I'm not very good anyway, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone could get perfect victory out what I perceive as unavoidable defeat.

EDIT: Of course, a true leader would not allow his subordinates to pursue a policy he believed was doomed to needlessly waste lives. But that's not as important as ensuring there are no bad feelings. ~:grouphug:

[Privateerkev]

:2thumbsup:

Alright, I'm telling YLC now.

[flyd]

For the record, I find that Cecil was perfectly right to pick up the save and do whatever he wanted at the battle, as the commander, and it's something that should have been handled IC. It is clear that every stack has one commander. If he fails you, well, be mad IC. But I didn't care enough to make a big fuss.

[Privateerkev]

For the record, I find that Cecil was perfectly right to pick up the save and do whatever he wanted at the battle, as the commander, and it's something that should have been handled IC. It is clear that every stack has one commander. If he fails you, well, be mad IC. But I didn't care enough to make a big fuss.

Since it was a matter of not being comfortable fighting the battle, I wanted to see others have the chance to fight it, if they chose. There were 5 avatars in that stack. Since we have 24 hours to fight defensive battles, I was confident we could find a replacement. In fact, the replacement ended up messaging me asking me if he could fight it.

[deguerra]

Perhaps in future all armies with multiple avatars ought to have an IC commander who can make such decisions IC and any disagreements could then be more easily be portrayed IC. I can see where you're coming from PK, as this wasn't the case, but ideally we would want an army commander who's decisions are challenged only in an IC manner, IMO.

[Privateerkev]

Perhaps in future all armies with multiple avatars ought to have an IC commander who can make such decisions IC and any disagreements could then be more easily be portrayed IC. I can see where you're coming from PK, as this wasn't the case, but ideally we would want an army commander who's decisions are challenged only in an IC manner, IMO.

I think part of the difficulty was in that it was a defensive battle. With offensive battles, you have time to plan and figure out who wants to fight it, like what happened with Arta.

But with defensive, you don't know when the save will be available and there is pressure to get it done fast so the next turn can go up.

I should have figured out ahead of time what to do and had alternates lined up so there would have been no save confusion.

[Ramses II CP]

Well, I get the impression Cecil hasn't tried out the somewhat absurd jedi generals we get in SS 4.1. Realistically you can win that battle with just two GBs because they're so cranked up and crazy for the killing. :laugh4:

That being said, my impression was that the Grandmaster picked a commander and that commander decided to order a retreat. As a member of the Order I'm glad the battle is going to be fought, but if I had been Megas I don't think I would've gone back and let that be refought. We had a new save and a reasonable in character assessment from the lead avatar's player.

It does, however, seem like something that is entirely within the purview of the Megas to decide, as an OOC matter, so I'm not trying to make a fuss, just FYI that if I somehow end up in that situation don't expect me treat it quite the same way.

:egypt:

[Privateerkev]

I'm probably the worst player here when it comes to fighting battles, and even I can beat a full stack with pretty much nothing but 6 bodyguard units.

Jedi is not an overstatement. :laugh4:

As for the other stuff, I'll just make clear next time that alternates are available any time a player feels uncomfortable with a battle. We have many different skill sets here. I admit that I am so bad, I get nervous every time I play a battle in KotR or LotR. The only reason I was confident in this case is because I have seen first hand that the Force is strong in our generals.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I'm probably the worst player here when it comes to fighting battles, and even I can beat a full stack with pretty much nothing but 6 bodyguard units.

Jedi is not an overstatement. :laugh4:

As for the other stuff, I'll just make clear next time that alternates are available any time a player feels uncomfortable with a battle. We have many different skill sets here. I admit that I am so bad, I get nervous every time I play a battle in KotR or LotR. The only reason I was confident in this case is because I have seen first hand that the Force is strong in our generals.

Statement that you are "the worst player here when it comes to fighting battles" is wrong.
I would be the worst player because I haven't fought battles in M2TW for a long time, especially battles where I am outnumbered 3 to 1 or even more:sweatdrop:
Even in the "Duel to the Death" against ATPG I auto resolved most of the battles.. the battles I did fought (I think that there were just 3 of them) ended up as crushing defeats...
So if someone wants to get rid of there RBG's then just hand them to me and .. well .. you might have a chance to get a new one ..
I'm more of a campaign map than the battle map person..

[ULC]

Jedi is not an overstatement. :laugh4:

I prefer the term Sith :clown:

Seriously though, I won a battle against a force essentially 3 times more capable then my own with simple RGB. In all honesty, I actually fouled the whole thing up, resulting in about 30-40 more casualties then there should have been. And watching either Armatos or Iakovos simply walk through hordes of soldiers and not loose a single man for almost a minute is downright scary...a suicidal AI can send your whole battle plan awry if they commit their general.

[TinCow]

Regarding the Cecil battle situation, this is the rule:


1.3 – Battles: A player whose avatar leads an army that is involved in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved. If a player cannot fight a battle that is assigned to them, the battle may also be fought by any player whose avatar will also be present in the battle. Under no circumstances will a battle be fought by a player whose avatar is not present in the battle. If there is no player available to fight a battle, it must be autoresolved. If there are no allocated avatars involved in the battle at all, it must be autoresolved.

The rule is pretty clear here: A player whose avatar leads an army that is involved in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. In this case, as I understand it, Cecil was the commander of the army. It was therefore his responsibility to fight the battle, and thus also his choice to retreat.

This following line has been mentioned as an exception to this: If a player cannot fight a battle that is assigned to them, the battle may also be fought by any player whose avatar will also be present in the battle. However, this exception is imaginary. This line specifically applied when a player "cannot" fight a battle, it has no impact on when a play can fight a battle, but instead chooses to retreat. The entire purpose of this rule is to give an alternative to an autoresolve when someone is away or having technical problems, not to allow anyone in the stack to fight the battle. It is perfectly fine for Cecil to let someone else fight the battle, but that would be an entirely IC decision. If he was hard-set on retreat, that was also his decision to make IC. If you do not like the way a player commands your armies, then the proper course of action is to have the person who controls the army (the owner of PA/RA, otherwise the Megas) relieve that commander of duty and appoint someone else.

[TinCow]

I have just looked over the game and combed through the entire traits file, and I cannot find any reason for TheFlax's maxed out piety. He has no piety modifying traits and there is only one hidden trait (ReligionStarter) that modifies piety, and that just gives the basic starting piety of 3. I don't think there's a way for me to alter his piety directly. I have to know which traits are causing it before I can change it, and since I can't find the responsible trait, I don't think I can fix it. The best I can do is simply manually count his piety by adding up the effects of his traits at every Senate Session. To prevent confusion, I will also edit any future mugshots of him so that they show the proper piety, instead of the erroneous one shown ingame.

[pevergreen]

Maybe he is the Orthodox jesus. Could provide some good IC stuff.

....:laugh4:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

He is in the Order after all .. perhaps this will happen to all of those who joins them from now on? :inquisitive::clown:

[TheFlax]

A bit of a noob question here, but even if the game thinks he is at 10 piety, can Areovindos still gain piety boosting traits?

I could find a way to play out the 10 piety, but it really feels like cheating, so I won't.

Thanks for your effort TinCow, editing the mugshot will at least avoid some confusion.

[TinCow]

As far as I know, your current piety level will have no impact on gaining traits. There isn't any cap on any stat, and you can go well above 10 in anything, it's just that any number over 10 doesn't give you a bonus to anything.

[flyd]

I get the feeling that Ituralde is about to attack the Turks. Which is fine. Let's pretend IC that war has not yet been officially declared, but that there has been fighting with Turkish forces at Trebizond, and is only a matter of time. I've written up a war declaration letter to the Sultan, and will probably post it as a story in the next turn, so as to make it "official".

[Ituralde]

Just in time! :2thumbsup:

Regard what I wrote as OOC then, I always liked the notion of some border conflicts that spark the final war against the Turks!

[flyd]

Well, I've suddenly decided to try drawing some visualizations of the house structures. The first one shows the rank ladder, and the second actual oath hierarchy. Let me know if there are any mistakes, and if you have any ideas on how to better visualize the houses.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/flydude18/tree.png

[Andres]

Is our House thát small compared to others?

:bigcry:

Why does nobody love us?

[OverKnight]

That's very nice looking FLYdude :2thumbsup:, what program did you do the chart with?

[Cecil XIX]

Given the circumstances of Aleppo's capture, I ask that the trait 'Can Tell a Tale' be transfered from Armatos to Iakovos.

Also, good job FLYude.

[flyd]

That's very nice looking FLYdude :2thumbsup:, what program did you do the chart with?

Inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org/)

[deguerra]

nice work. incidentally, that is what i use for the coats of arms. i hadn't realized tagmata was down to two either. didn't you guys start out with four?

[Northnovas]

nice work. incidentally, that is what i use for the coats of arms. i hadn't realized tagmata was down to two either. didn't you guys start out with four?

We did but TC has gone to bigger and better things and Ichigo was having CPU issues, hopefully he will return.
Were just two peas in a pod. :pleased:

[deguerra]

ah yes of course. had forgotten about TC. Not, actually, but about him having been Tagmata :sweatdrop: Please don't event me! :clown:

[Askthepizzaguy]

seeing as how Tepaki have two, maybe we should consider an alliance. However, I will never, ever give up my wonderful, wonderful coat of arms.

[deguerra]

I'll take that as a compliment. Though I am also particularly fond of the Tagmata one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

As intended, Deguerra. Your coat of arms is the only reason I'm not an Asteri anymore!

:laugh4:

[flyd]

So, who wants to take the last save from 1104, take the fog of war off, hit end turn and watch all the AI moves, and (if he should get notified of the state of war between us and the Germans at the end like I did), explain just how the Germans managed to declare that war?

I mean, I can see the why, it works fine IC since we were blocking their way, I'm just totally perplexed by the how.

[ULC]

The AI is psychic...

:clown:

Really though, I've had this happen to me, and I don't know how the computer did it either. I have noted it has done this only in SS with me...

[deguerra]

often the AI will do it by blockading a port. did you check those?

[flyd]

They have no ships...

Might be a script in SS. Something we did not see coming when we blockaded that crusade...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

War with the Germans!!! :sweatdrop:

Perhaps TC can look into it and find out how this happened?

EDIT: Looked the Megas reports. If the crusade disappeared then perhaps they were excommunicated??

[flyd]

The crusade only "disappeared" out of our field of view. It has gone the long way around because Tagaris and Savvas blocked its path.

[AussieGiant]

The plot thickens...

Time to call in Dr Watson I believe.

[TheFlax]

War with the Germans!!! :sweatdrop:

Perhaps TC can look into it and find out how this happened?

EDIT: Looked the Megas reports. If the crusade disappeared then perhaps they were excommunicated??

Excommunicated? For declaring war on us filthy Orthodoxes? I highly doubt it.

That didn't even happen in 1204 when the Crusaders sacks Constantinople.

I think more likely the AI moved the Crusade in an odd place or something like that. The ways of the AI are often inscrutable or just plain stupid.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

No, I was thinking that they were excommed by other reasons.. Let's face it.. HRE is never liked by the Pope..

But like FLYdude said .. they took the long way..

So this can't be it.

[Privateerkev]

Well, I've suddenly decided to try drawing some visualizations of the house structures. The first one shows the rank ladder, and the second actual oath hierarchy. Let me know if there are any mistakes, and if you have any ideas on how to better visualize the houses.

Ituralde's character is only a strator at the moment. He lost Sinop and I haven't seen the Caesar give it back to him. (If he did it through PM, then my apologies.)

As for Germany, I blame it on that crazy old Kaiser Heinrich. No telling what he might do. He's so crazy, I bet he'd even attack the Pope himself. ;)

[Ituralde]

Ignoramus already gave it back to me in a PM, although I guess he would have to make a note of it in some public thread. *hint* *hint*

[TinCow]

Please don't event me!

I'm tempted to put that in my sig. :laugh4:

[OverKnight]

Gah! Those crazy Germans.

I think we might have been burned by playing like we're dealing with the vanilla game and being reminded we're playing SS, again. The supply system and loyalty systems were a bit of a change, but this. . .this is unexpected.

Despite some severe short term consequences, I welcome this sort of surprise. The less predictable the AI, the less likely we are to meta-game.

Of course short term, a massive Crusade army is out there somewhere while most of our troops are on the other side of the Empire, our western and northern borders are bare and Aleksios is a bit isolated. I can almost hear the theme from Jaws playing.

[Ramses II CP]

Bah, we have Jedi generals! We can defeat anything!

I sincerely hope that no one is offended by my latest addition to the story thread. The opportunity to work a somewhat legendary figure into the story (Aliya) in such a way was not to be resisted. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[TheFlax]

Offended? Amazed would be a better descriptive in my case. Great writing Ramses, I sincerely loved it, especially the descriptions and some of the details you put in there. :beam:

[Cecil XIX]

Gah! Those crazy Germans.

Just imagine if the Crusading Army was commanded by Otto von Kassel, and Aleksios had to fight him. What a story that would be! I'm so dissappointed it's just some nobody we've never heard of named Athalwolf von Prag.

...Of course, since he's from Prague I wish him the best of luck.:balloon2:

[Privateerkev]

I'm tempted to put that in my sig. :laugh4:

"Don't event me, bro!" (http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/top10/article/0,30583,1686204_1686303_1690284,00.html)

[Prince Cobra]

Observer comment:

I've just read the story of the megas logothetes. And I could not stop laughing. This declaration of war was really hilarious. It will certainly enter in history.

I only hope we will not cry after that. These stupid heretics on Danube! :sweat:



OOC: I am not a partcipant but I hope I can post from time to time. However, I'll try to be more discrete. :p

I'll try to find more time for further reading. :book:

[Privateerkev]

Hi Stephen! :beam:

Glad your enjoying our wacky adventures. :yes:

[OverKnight]

Just imagine if the Crusading Army was commanded by Otto von Kassel, and Aleksios had to fight him. What a story that would be!

Otto von Kassel gets morphed into Otto von Tirol in SS I think, based on my recollection from trying out an earlier version. Part of the mod is to make the names more "authentic", though that is up to debate.

I'm assuming Athalwolf von Prag is an adoptee, as his name bears no resemblance to any of the beginning German characters.

This game is already weird enough for me as I'm playing the leader of the "hated Greeks" from Matt's point of view. Fighting the Germans just adds to this.

@ Stephen Asen: Feel free to comment in the OOC thread, that's what its here for. Believe me, you'd be elevating the usual discourse. :laugh4:

[Privateerkev]

Believe me, you'd be elevating the usual discourse. :laugh4:

You mean debates on "strutting" versus "stalking" are not deep and nuanced enough? :clown:

[TinCow]

Ok, I've done a quick run through the trait list and here are my initial proposals for traits we can alter in the University. Some of these have very nice bonuses, but they would take several 'Uni' terms to get to high levels. Maxing out a single high level trait or erasing a bad trait that is at it's worst level would talk half a person's life, which seems pretty balanced to me. Another option would be to limit the number of people who can be in the 'University' each year. Perhaps let the 'Dean' select a small group of 5 or 6 or something.

Skills that can be modified up or down, to any level:
Trait GoodAdministrator
Level Budding_Bureaucrat
Effect Trading 3
Effect Law 1

Level Skilled_Bureaucrat
Effect Trading 5
Effect Law 2

Level Superb_Administrator
Effect Trading 10
Effect Law 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadAdministrator
Level Poor_Administrator
Effect Trading -3

Level Inefficient_Administrator
Effect Trading -5

Level Total_Incompetence
Effect Trading -10

;------------------------------------------
Trait InspiringSpeaker
Level Can_Tell_a_Tale
Effect Law 1

Level Great_Speaker
Effect Law 1

Level Inspirational_Speaker
Effect Law 2


;------------------------------------------
Trait BoringSpeaker
Level Poor_Speaker
Effect Law -1

Level Awkward_Speaker
Effect Law -1
Effect TroopMorale -1

Level Incredibly_Boring
Effect Law -2
Effect TroopMorale -2
Effect Command -1

;------------------------------------------

Trait AcademyTrained
Level Academy_Trained
Effect Command 1

Level Officer_Training
Effect Command 2

;------------------------------------------

Trait ForcedReligious
Level Conforming
Effect Piety 1

Level Reverant
Effect Piety 2

Level Godfearing
Effect Piety 3
Effect TroopMorale -1


;------------------------------------------


Trait Superstitious
Level Silly_Beliefs
Effect Piety -1

Level Superstitious
Effect Piety -1
Effect TroopMorale -1

Level Slave_to_Superstition
Effect Piety -2
Effect Authority -1
Effect TroopMorale -2



;------------------------------------------
Trait Pragmatic
Level Mostly_Rational
Effect Authority 1

Level No_Nonsense
Effect Authority 2
Effect TroopMorale 1

Level Utterly_Pragmatic
Effect Authority 3
Effect TroopMorale 2

;------------------------------------------


Trait GoodTaxman
Level Good_with_Taxes
Effect TaxCollection 10

Level Thorough_Taxman
Effect TaxCollection 20
Effect Unrest 1

Level Cruelly_Exacting_Taxman
Effect TaxCollection 30
Effect Unrest 2


;------------------------------------------
Trait BadTaxman
Level Poor_with_Taxes
Effect TaxCollection -5

Level Sloppy_Taxman
Effect TaxCollection -10

Level Tax_Farmer
Effect TaxCollection -15



;------------------------------------------

Trait Scout
Level Adopts_Scouting
Effect LineOfSight 1

Level Adept_Scout
Effect LineOfSight 2

Level Reconnaissance_Expert
Effect LineOfSight 3

;------------------------------------------


Trait GoodFarmer
Level Farming_Knowledge
Effect Farming 1

Level Rural_Expert
Effect Farming 2

Level Agriculturalist
Effect Farming 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodMiner
Level Mining_Knowledge
Effect Mining 10

Level Mining_Expert
Effect Mining 20

Level Geologist
Effect Mining 30



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodEngineer
Level Admires_Technology
Effect SiegeEngineering 20

Level Mechanically_Minded
Effect SiegeAttack 1
Effect SiegeEngineering 40

Level Engineer
Effect SiegeAttack 2
Effect SiegeEngineering 60



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadEngineer
Level Questions_Technology
Effect SiegeAttack -1

Level Befuddled_by_Machines
Effect SiegeAttack -2

Level Distrusts_Evil_Machinery!
Effect SiegeAttack -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodTrader
Level Understands_Trade
Effect Trading 10

Level Trader
Effect Trading 20

Level Master_Trader
Effect Trading 30



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadTrader
Level Fiscally_Challenged
Effect Trading -10

Level Incompetent_Trader
Effect Trading -20

Level Trading_Liability
Effect Trading -30



;------------------------------------------
Trait Just
Level A_Sense_of_Justice
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Law 1

Level Just
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Law 2

Level Serves_Justice
Effect Chivalry 3
Effect Law 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait Unjust
Level Swift_to_Judge
Effect Unrest 1

Level Lacks_Justice
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Unrest 2

Level Unjust
Effect Chivalry -3
Effect Unrest 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait HarshJustice
Level Hard_Justice
Effect Unrest 1
Effect Law 2

Level Harsh_Justice
Effect Unrest 2
Effect Law 4

Level Severe_Justice
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Unrest 3
Effect Law 6



;------------------------------------------
Trait LenientJustice
Level Soft_Judge
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Law -1

Level Merciful_Judge
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Law -2

Level Kind_Judge
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Law -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait HarshRuler
Level Iron_Fisted
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Law 1

Level Harsh_Ruler
Effect Chivalry -2
Effect PersonalSecurity -1
Effect Squalor 1
Effect Law 2

Level Cruel_Ruler
Effect Chivalry -3
Effect PersonalSecurity -2
Effect Squalor 2
Effect Law 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait KindRuler

Level Reasonable_Ruler
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Squalor -1

Level Kind_Ruler
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Squalor -2

Level Benevolent_Ruler
Effect Chivalry 3
Effect Squalor -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodBuilder
Level Active_Builder
Effect Construction 5
Effect Squalor -1

Level Urban_Planner
Effect Construction 10
Effect Squalor -2

Level Great_Builder
Effect Construction 15
Effect Squalor -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadBuilder
Level Not_Constructive
Effect Construction -5
Effect Squalor 1

Level Sloppy_Builder
Effect Construction -10
Effect Squalor 2

Level Abhors_Construction
Effect Construction -15
Effect Squalor 3


;------------------------------------------
Trait Generous
Level Generous
Effect TaxCollection -2

Level Openly_Giving
Effect Trading -2
Effect TaxCollection -5

Level Overly_Generous
Effect Trading -5
Effect TaxCollection -10



;------------------------------------------
Trait Miserly
Level Mean_with_Money
Effect TaxCollection 2
Effect Squalor 1

Level Hoarder_of_Wealth
Effect Trading 2
Effect TaxCollection 5
Effect Squalor 2

Level Miserly
Effect Trading 5
Effect TaxCollection 10
Effect Squalor 3


Trait Disloyal
Level Speaks_of_Loyalty
Effect Loyalty -1

Level Mixed_Loyalties
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Loyalty -2

Level Disloyal
Effect Chivalry -2
Effect Loyalty -3

Level Actively_Disloyal
Effect Chivalry -3
Effect Loyalty -4

;------------------------------------------
Trait Loyal
Level Generally_Loyal
Effect Loyalty 1

Level Loyal
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Loyalty 2

Level Very_Loyal
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Loyalty 3

Level Loyal_Beyond_Question
Effect Chivalry 3
Effect Loyalty 4


;------------------------------------------

Trait Authoritarian
Level 1 Firm_Ruler
Effect Unrest 1
Effect Law 2

Level 2 Strict_Ruler
Effect Authority 1
Effect Unrest 2
Effect Law 4

Level 3 Total_Authoritarian
Effect Authority 2
Effect Unrest 3
Effect Law 6


;------------------------------------------

Trait NonAuthoritarian
Level 1 Fair_Ruler
Effect Unrest -2
Effect Law -1

Level 2 Understanding_Ruler
Effect Authority -1
Effect Unrest -4
Effect Law -2

Level 3 Liberal_Leader
Effect Authority -2
Effect Unrest -6
Effect Law -3


;------------------------------------------

Trait Cultured
Level 1 Cultured
Effect LocalPopularity 1

Level 2 Very_Cultured
Effect Authority 1
Effect LocalPopularity 2


;------------------------------------------

Trait Rabblerouser
Level 1 Instigator
Effect LocalPopularity 1

Level 2 Agitator
Effect LocalPopularity 2

Level 3 Provoker
Effect Authority 1
Effect LocalPopularity 3
Effect Unrest 1

Level 4 Leader_of_the_Mob
Effect Authority 2
Effect LocalPopularity 4
Effect Unrest 2


;------------------------------------------

Trait Gambling
Level 1 Enjoys_a_Wager
Effect Trading -5
Effect BribeResistance -1

Level 2 Gambler
Effect Trading -10
Effect BribeResistance -2

Level 3 Problem_Gambler
Effect Trading -15
Effect BribeResistance -3

Level 4 Slave_to_Luck
Effect Trading -20
Effect BribeResistance -4


;------------------------------------------

Trait Ignorance
Level 1 Ignorant
Effect Authority -1
Effect Trading -2
Effect TaxCollection -2

Level 2 Sadly_Ignorant
Effect Authority -1
Effect Trading -5
Effect TaxCollection -5

Level 3 Blissfully_Ignorant
Effect Authority -2
Effect Trading -10
Effect TaxCollection -10



;------------------------------------------


Trait HaleAndHearty:
Level 1 DeathlyUnhealthy
Effect HitPoints -3
Effect Fertility -1

Level 2 SeverelyUnhealthy
Effect HitPoints -2

Level 3 Unhealthy
Effect HitPoints -1

Level 4 NormalHealth

Level 5 Healthy
Effect HitPoints 1

Level 6 FairlyHealthy
Effect HitPoints 2

Level 7 BastionHealth
Effect HitPoints 3
Effect Fertility 1


Skills which can be taken, but only to level 1:
RhetoricSkill
Level 1 Well_Spoken
Effect Authority 1

StrategicSkill
Level 1 Promising_Strategist
Effect Command 1

TacticalSkill
Level 1 Promising_Tactician
Effect Ambush 2
Effect LineOfSight 1

MathematicsSkill
Level 1 Talent_with_Numbers
Effect SiegeEngineering 10
Effect Trading 5

PoliticsSkill
Level 1 Political_Promise
Effect Authority 1

LogisticalSkill
Level 1 Understands_Logistics
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect MovementPoints 1

Trait HorseRacer
Level Good_Racer
Effect MovementPoints 1

The SS ‘Coming of Age’ Education Traits:

Religious Education (Clergy_Edu)
Level 1 Novice
Effect Piety 1

Level 2 Ordination
Effect Piety 2
Effect Loyalty -1
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect Law 1

Castle Education (Castle_Edu)
Level 1 – Squire
Effect MovementPoints 10

Level 2 Knighted
Effect Command 1
Effect Loyalty 1
Effect MovementPoints 10
Effect Chivalry 1

Capital Education (Cap_Edu)
Level 1 Paige
Effect Law 1

Level 2 Enobled
Effect Law 2
Effect Authority 1
Effect TaxCollection 5

[Ignoramus]

A son? It looks like the Komneni are here to stay.

[deguerra]

Its another Ioannis. Brilliant! Ioannis' ftw!

[Privateerkev]

I think this game has far too many Ioannisises's in it. :clown:

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis? Really? I'm stoked!! Who wants to bet that we'll have 2 Ioannis' as Basileus? :clown:

[deguerra]

I was wondering actually. Presuming that Kosmas dies before you, does the position of heir go to your son or to Tristan's character?

[Ignoramus]

I have no idea. Knowing MTWII, anything could happen. There may be some general rule at the start, but I've seen cases where it's straightforward but still do something crazy.

[flyd]

I was wondering actually. Presuming that Kosmas dies before you, does the position of heir go to your son or to Tristan's character?

It either goes to one of them or to some half-cousin seven times removed.

[Ignoramus]

It either goes to one of them or to some half-cousin seven times removed.

Like Methodios? :laugh4:

[deguerra]

Like me? :clown:

edit: although i find it highly unfair my daughter won't get to be a princess, and will have to be married off to some popped up wannabe rather than a standing member of the empire. although, really, nobody is good enough for her anyway.

[ULC]

Ok, I've done a quick run through the trait list and here are my initial proposals for traits we can alter in the University. Some of these have very nice bonuses, but they would take several 'Uni' terms to get to high levels. Maxing out a single high level trait or erasing a bad trait that is at it's worst level would talk half a person's life, which seems pretty balanced to me. Another option would be to limit the number of people who can be in the 'University' each year. Perhaps let the 'Dean' select a small group of 5 or 6 or something.

Skills that can be modified up or down, to any level:
Trait GoodAdministrator
Level Budding_Bureaucrat
Effect Trading 3
Effect Law 1

Level Skilled_Bureaucrat
Effect Trading 5
Effect Law 2

Level Superb_Administrator
Effect Trading 10
Effect Law 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadAdministrator
Level Poor_Administrator
Effect Trading -3

Level Inefficient_Administrator
Effect Trading -5

Level Total_Incompetence
Effect Trading -10

;------------------------------------------
Trait InspiringSpeaker
Level Can_Tell_a_Tale
Effect Law 1

Level Great_Speaker
Effect Law 1

Level Inspirational_Speaker
Effect Law 2


;------------------------------------------
Trait BoringSpeaker
Level Poor_Speaker
Effect Law -1

Level Awkward_Speaker
Effect Law -1
Effect TroopMorale -1

Level Incredibly_Boring
Effect Law -2
Effect TroopMorale -2
Effect Command -1

;------------------------------------------

Trait AcademyTrained
Level Academy_Trained
Effect Command 1

Level Officer_Training
Effect Command 2

;------------------------------------------

Trait ForcedReligious
Level Conforming
Effect Piety 1

Level Reverant
Effect Piety 2

Level Godfearing
Effect Piety 3
Effect TroopMorale -1


;------------------------------------------


Trait Superstitious
Level Silly_Beliefs
Effect Piety -1

Level Superstitious
Effect Piety -1
Effect TroopMorale -1

Level Slave_to_Superstition
Effect Piety -2
Effect Authority -1
Effect TroopMorale -2



;------------------------------------------
Trait Pragmatic
Level Mostly_Rational
Effect Authority 1

Level No_Nonsense
Effect Authority 2
Effect TroopMorale 1

Level Utterly_Pragmatic
Effect Authority 3
Effect TroopMorale 2

;------------------------------------------


Trait GoodTaxman
Level Good_with_Taxes
Effect TaxCollection 10

Level Thorough_Taxman
Effect TaxCollection 20
Effect Unrest 1

Level Cruelly_Exacting_Taxman
Effect TaxCollection 30
Effect Unrest 2


;------------------------------------------
Trait BadTaxman
Level Poor_with_Taxes
Effect TaxCollection -5

Level Sloppy_Taxman
Effect TaxCollection -10

Level Tax_Farmer
Effect TaxCollection -15



;------------------------------------------

Trait Scout
Level Adopts_Scouting
Effect LineOfSight 1

Level Adept_Scout
Effect LineOfSight 2

Level Reconnaissance_Expert
Effect LineOfSight 3

;------------------------------------------


Trait GoodFarmer
Level Farming_Knowledge
Effect Farming 1

Level Rural_Expert
Effect Farming 2

Level Agriculturalist
Effect Farming 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodMiner
Level Mining_Knowledge
Effect Mining 10

Level Mining_Expert
Effect Mining 20

Level Geologist
Effect Mining 30



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodEngineer
Level Admires_Technology
Effect SiegeEngineering 20

Level Mechanically_Minded
Effect SiegeAttack 1
Effect SiegeEngineering 40

Level Engineer
Effect SiegeAttack 2
Effect SiegeEngineering 60



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadEngineer
Level Questions_Technology
Effect SiegeAttack -1

Level Befuddled_by_Machines
Effect SiegeAttack -2

Level Distrusts_Evil_Machinery!
Effect SiegeAttack -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodTrader
Level Understands_Trade
Effect Trading 10

Level Trader
Effect Trading 20

Level Master_Trader
Effect Trading 30



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadTrader
Level Fiscally_Challenged
Effect Trading -10

Level Incompetent_Trader
Effect Trading -20

Level Trading_Liability
Effect Trading -30



;------------------------------------------
Trait Just
Level A_Sense_of_Justice
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Law 1

Level Just
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Law 2

Level Serves_Justice
Effect Chivalry 3
Effect Law 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait Unjust
Level Swift_to_Judge
Effect Unrest 1

Level Lacks_Justice
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Unrest 2

Level Unjust
Effect Chivalry -3
Effect Unrest 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait HarshJustice
Level Hard_Justice
Effect Unrest 1
Effect Law 2

Level Harsh_Justice
Effect Unrest 2
Effect Law 4

Level Severe_Justice
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Unrest 3
Effect Law 6



;------------------------------------------
Trait LenientJustice
Level Soft_Judge
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Law -1

Level Merciful_Judge
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Law -2

Level Kind_Judge
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Law -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait HarshRuler
Level Iron_Fisted
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Law 1

Level Harsh_Ruler
Effect Chivalry -2
Effect PersonalSecurity -1
Effect Squalor 1
Effect Law 2

Level Cruel_Ruler
Effect Chivalry -3
Effect PersonalSecurity -2
Effect Squalor 2
Effect Law 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait KindRuler

Level Reasonable_Ruler
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Squalor -1

Level Kind_Ruler
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Squalor -2

Level Benevolent_Ruler
Effect Chivalry 3
Effect Squalor -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodBuilder
Level Active_Builder
Effect Construction 5
Effect Squalor -1

Level Urban_Planner
Effect Construction 10
Effect Squalor -2

Level Great_Builder
Effect Construction 15
Effect Squalor -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadBuilder
Level Not_Constructive
Effect Construction -5
Effect Squalor 1

Level Sloppy_Builder
Effect Construction -10
Effect Squalor 2

Level Abhors_Construction
Effect Construction -15
Effect Squalor 3


;------------------------------------------
Trait Generous
Level Generous
Effect TaxCollection -2

Level Openly_Giving
Effect Trading -2
Effect TaxCollection -5

Level Overly_Generous
Effect Trading -5
Effect TaxCollection -10



;------------------------------------------
Trait Miserly
Level Mean_with_Money
Effect TaxCollection 2
Effect Squalor 1

Level Hoarder_of_Wealth
Effect Trading 2
Effect TaxCollection 5
Effect Squalor 2

Level Miserly
Effect Trading 5
Effect TaxCollection 10
Effect Squalor 3


Trait Disloyal
Level Speaks_of_Loyalty
Effect Loyalty -1

Level Mixed_Loyalties
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Loyalty -2

Level Disloyal
Effect Chivalry -2
Effect Loyalty -3

Level Actively_Disloyal
Effect Chivalry -3
Effect Loyalty -4

;------------------------------------------
Trait Loyal
Level Generally_Loyal
Effect Loyalty 1

Level Loyal
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Loyalty 2

Level Very_Loyal
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Loyalty 3

Level Loyal_Beyond_Question
Effect Chivalry 3
Effect Loyalty 4


;------------------------------------------

Trait Authoritarian
Level 1 Firm_Ruler
Effect Unrest 1
Effect Law 2

Level 2 Strict_Ruler
Effect Authority 1
Effect Unrest 2
Effect Law 4

Level 3 Total_Authoritarian
Effect Authority 2
Effect Unrest 3
Effect Law 6


;------------------------------------------

Trait NonAuthoritarian
Level 1 Fair_Ruler
Effect Unrest -2
Effect Law -1

Level 2 Understanding_Ruler
Effect Authority -1
Effect Unrest -4
Effect Law -2

Level 3 Liberal_Leader
Effect Authority -2
Effect Unrest -6
Effect Law -3


;------------------------------------------

Trait Cultured
Level 1 Cultured
Effect LocalPopularity 1

Level 2 Very_Cultured
Effect Authority 1
Effect LocalPopularity 2


;------------------------------------------

Trait Rabblerouser
Level 1 Instigator
Effect LocalPopularity 1

Level 2 Agitator
Effect LocalPopularity 2

Level 3 Provoker
Effect Authority 1
Effect LocalPopularity 3
Effect Unrest 1

Level 4 Leader_of_the_Mob
Effect Authority 2
Effect LocalPopularity 4
Effect Unrest 2


;------------------------------------------

Trait Gambling
Level 1 Enjoys_a_Wager
Effect Trading -5
Effect BribeResistance -1

Level 2 Gambler
Effect Trading -10
Effect BribeResistance -2

Level 3 Problem_Gambler
Effect Trading -15
Effect BribeResistance -3

Level 4 Slave_to_Luck
Effect Trading -20
Effect BribeResistance -4


;------------------------------------------

Trait Ignorance
Level 1 Ignorant
Effect Authority -1
Effect Trading -2
Effect TaxCollection -2

Level 2 Sadly_Ignorant
Effect Authority -1
Effect Trading -5
Effect TaxCollection -5

Level 3 Blissfully_Ignorant
Effect Authority -2
Effect Trading -10
Effect TaxCollection -10



;------------------------------------------


Trait HaleAndHearty:
Level 1 DeathlyUnhealthy
Effect HitPoints -3
Effect Fertility -1

Level 2 SeverelyUnhealthy
Effect HitPoints -2

Level 3 Unhealthy
Effect HitPoints -1

Level 4 NormalHealth

Level 5 Healthy
Effect HitPoints 1

Level 6 FairlyHealthy
Effect HitPoints 2

Level 7 BastionHealth
Effect HitPoints 3
Effect Fertility 1


Skills which can be taken, but only to level 1:
RhetoricSkill
Level 1 Well_Spoken
Effect Authority 1

StrategicSkill
Level 1 Promising_Strategist
Effect Command 1

TacticalSkill
Level 1 Promising_Tactician
Effect Ambush 2
Effect LineOfSight 1

MathematicsSkill
Level 1 Talent_with_Numbers
Effect SiegeEngineering 10
Effect Trading 5

PoliticsSkill
Level 1 Political_Promise
Effect Authority 1

LogisticalSkill
Level 1 Understands_Logistics
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect MovementPoints 1

Trait HorseRacer
Level Good_Racer
Effect MovementPoints 1

The SS ‘Coming of Age’ Education Traits:

Religious Education (Clergy_Edu)
Level 1 Novice
Effect Piety 1

Level 2 Ordination
Effect Piety 2
Effect Loyalty -1
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect Law 1

Castle Education (Castle_Edu)
Level 1 – Squire
Effect MovementPoints 10

Level 2 Knighted
Effect Command 1
Effect Loyalty 1
Effect MovementPoints 10
Effect Chivalry 1

Capital Education (Cap_Edu)
Level 1 Paige
Effect Law 1

Level 2 Enobled
Effect Law 2
Effect Authority 1
Effect TaxCollection 5

That seems okay to me, but what does everyone else think?

[deguerra]

Seemed ok, although a few like the loyalty or graciousness ones might be questioned. I guess theyre fine, but not really "learning" related.

[Ituralde]

I like the selection, except for the Loyalty, Disloyalty ones and also the Kind and Firm Ruler traits along with the Hale and Hearty line. Those things don't seem to be learnable at some University. At least that's where I would see problems with the IC ties we created. If it would be for some general advancement scheme I would be fine with it.

Hehe. general gdvancement! Or should it be general general advancement, or general character advancement, or just character advancement. I went with general advancement because that way nobody knows what I tried to say! :2thumbsup: Sometimes English's really fun! :beam:

[deguerra]

Sometimes English's really fun! :beam:

stupid language...:clown:

[TinCow]

The Loyalty and HaleandHearty lines were included mainly for OOC reasons. Loyalty to help bring a character more in line with how a person want's to RP their character (along with my current policy of deleting 'Unwatched by the King'). HaleandHearty was to counteract people who experience severe health problems with the SS supply system. That said, I'm happy deleting them from the list if that's what people want. The reasons for including them are not really that strong.

The chivalry and dread ruler and justice traits are IC IMO. Shouldn't a person be able to learn how to rule their people?

[Ignoramus]

I have another trait complaint:

https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9586/ridiculoustraitns3.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

-6 command is ridiculously extreme, and as for being overconfident, all I did was encamp in my own province for 6 years. I would have thought a cowardice trait was more appropriate given the circumstances.

Also, I'd like to make a small request that I be allowed to play Ioannis' son when the current Ioannis dies. I know we already agreed that players couldn't reserve avatars, but they could make requests of which ones they would especially like to play.

[TinCow]

-6 command is ridiculously extreme, and as for being overconfident, all I did was encamp in my own province for 6 years. I would have thought a cowardice trait was more appropriate given the circumstances.

It is ridiculous, so I just looked it up. This is the trait:


Trait Ovcon
Characters family
AntiTraits Con

Level Overconfident
Description Overconfident_desc
EffectsDescription Overconfident_effects_desc
Threshold 1

Effect Command -1

Level Blatantly_Overconfident
Description Blatantly_Overconfident_desc
EffectsDescription Blatantly_Overconfident_effects_desc
Threshold 2

Effect Command -2

The text description is wrong. It says -6, but the actual effect is only -2. I will include this as a fix whenever I do another LotRmod.

[Cecil XIX]

When you're doing another LOTR Mod, could you make 'Bad Logistician' an antitrait of 'Logistical_Skill'? I've know idea why it isn't already.

[Privateerkev]

-6 command is ridiculously extreme, and as for being overconfident, all I did was encamp in my own province for 6 years. I would have thought a cowardice trait was more appropriate given the circumstances.

I actually found it funny because I see the character as being very "overconfident". I do agree -6 is far too high a price to pay for the trait. I'm glad it is only -2.


Also, I'd like to make a small request that I be allowed to play Ioannis' son when the current Ioannis dies. I know we already agreed that players couldn't reserve avatars, but they could make requests of which ones they would especially like to play.

You should probably keep in mind that Ioannis will only be 33 at this next session. So, when his son comes of age, Ioannis won't even be 50. He might live into his 60's. You'd basically be holding a spare avatar for 2 or 3 whole terms. Though if no one joins the game, or needs a new avatar, then this obviously wouldn't be a problem. Just letting you know that Ioannis will probably live for quite a long time after the son comes of age.

[deguerra]

It does also give you a likely two Basileos' in a row. I have no real problem with that, others might. If you find a good IC roleplayer for your son, you might be able to mold him to your liking IC without having to play him. But I have nothing against your reservation, but agree with PK.

[Privateerkev]

The Emperor will die before the Caesar's son comes of age. The Emperor will be 55 this next senate term. He'll probably live into his 60's. The son won't be of age so the AI will hit us with a whacky heir choice. For all we know, it could end up being Methodios. :laugh4:

I don't know if SS chooses heirs differently, but from my experience with vanilla, my guess would be that it chooses Andronikos Komnenos. In my vanilla SP games, the younger brother tends to be made heir after the original FL dies.

So, while I am against someone playing the Emperor twice, it does not even seem like it will be the case here.

[deguerra]

That stuff is, AFAIK, hardcoded so SS can change nothing.

I was under the impression that the system mostly chose a characters son, if he had one. Given that Ioannis has a son, albeit adopted, Kosmas, I expect the game to chose him. However, given that Kosmas is older than the Caesar, he will likely die first. IMO the most likely follow on from that is Methodios, but it could be the Caesars son.

[Privateerkev]

That's true, unlike my SP games there are already "of-age" sons. This happened in KotR too. After Henry, the game chose an adopted son, Jobst. It passed up Leopold, Henry's younger brother, and Hans, Henry's oldest natural son.

So, my guess would be Kosmas. But he will be 40 at the next session. By the time the Emperor dies, he might be 50 or even older. He'd basically be a "care-taker" heir. After that, it might be Methodios but he isn't much younger than Kosmas.

[woad&fangs]

Are you guys sure we're at war with the HRE? I downloaded the latest save(Ignoramus') to get an idea of what's going on. I checked the diplomacy screen and it only said we were at war with the rebels and turks.

Also, just so I'm sure, the Megas Logothetos will recruit my Avatar in Belgrade and I will get him next turn, correct?

[Rowan]

I just took a quick peek at the save and we are not at war with the HRE. Only Turks and rebels. W T F :dizzy2: ?

EDIT: Bah, beat by w&f. (Hi and welcome, btw :) )

[flyd]

Well, the first thing I did this turn was negotiate a ceasefire with the Germans. Of course, the report for this turn comes at the end of the turn. :laugh4:

w&f, yes, the avatars will show up next turn. You'll get three to choose from.

[TinCow]

I just noticed that Antioch is over 50% Orthodox. Are avatars resupplying properly there now?

[Privateerkev]

They resupply 50% at a time if they sit in the city. :beam:

So, two turns in a city with 50% your religion makes them fully supplied. :2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

Good, glad to know we figured that bit out. Beware conquest without priests.

[deguerra]

The priest having been a vital component of any medieval logisticians arsenal :clown:

[OverKnight]

I have another trait complaint:

https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9586/ridiculoustraitns3.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

-6 command is ridiculously extreme, and as for being overconfident, all I did was encamp in my own province for 6 years. I would have thought a cowardice trait was more appropriate given the circumstances.


Aleksios got the same trait after a battle in which he outnumbered the enemy and dispatched them easily. It will reduce and then go away after a few turns.

[Ramses II CP]

By way of an FYI I am unconcerned about Vissa's collection of traits. If any of them seem especially odd under the circumstances I'm sure we can remove 'em, but it'll be a long time before he's a combat character and all the real fighting is done by body guards or under captains anyway, so it frankly doesn't matter.

Thanks for the comment Flax. :beam: I was a bit worried because just describing a foul mouth doesn't really cut it, you have to leave people with some impression of just how foul.

:egypt:

[Privateerkev]

I'm going to post House Asteri's new change so I have a better idea on what just happened. Plus, it would probably be a good idea to track how long people have held each position.

They were this:

Antypatos Ioannis Kalameteros (deguerra)
-Hypatos Hypatios Machonios (Elite Ferret)
--Domestikos Zigavinos Vasilakios (rossahh)
---Strator Nevoulos ek Philadelphias (Smowz)
----Strator Kosmas Mavrozomis (Zim)
-----Comes Anastasios Neokaisareitis (The Lemongate)
-----Strator Efstathios Laskaris (Ibn-Khaldun)

Now, they are this:

Patrikios Ioannis Kalameteros (deguerra) *1
-Antypatos Markianos Ameplas (Flydude) *2
--Antypatos Hypatios Machonios (Elite Ferret) *3
---Hypatos Zigavinos Vasilakios (rossahh)
----Strator Nevoulos ek Philadelphias (Smowz)
-----Domestikos Kosmas Mavrozomis (Zim)
------Comes Anastasios Neokaisareitis (The Lemongate)
------Strator Efstathios Laskaris (Ibn-Khaldun)

*1: Ioannis has the amount of landowners to be a Dux but he still needs to spend 5 turns as Patrikios. (He has already spent 5 turns as Antypatos.)

*2: Ameplas has the amount of landowners to be Patrikios but he still needs to spend 5 turns as Antypatos.

*3: Hypatios's 5 turns for being Antypatos start now.

[deguerra]

thanks PK. It's good to know we have a walking rulebook, because I tend to forget bits here and there. :2thumbsup:

[Privateerkev]

thanks PK. It's good to know we have a walking rulebook, because I tend to forget bits here and there. :2thumbsup:

Thanks but the walking rulebook is TC. I'm just the helper. And not even a good helper. I'm wrong a lot. (someone might want to go over my last post and make sure the feudal ladder for Asteri is right.)

:beam:

[deguerra]

I figure he is cheating, seeing as he wrote most of them :P

Your ladder seems right to me, but then I'm no expert.

[Privateerkev]

I figure he is cheating, seeing as he wrote most of them :P

If your not careful, he'll "event" you. :clown:

[flyd]

I agree with PK's assessment of the ladder. I've put the new version of my pretty picture on my user page.

[Privateerkev]

I agree with PK's assessment of the ladder. I've put the new version of my pretty picture on my user page.

I like that you keep it on your page. Easier to find.

The Caesar's House has just had some changes though. Tepaki seems on the verge of changing as well.

[flyd]

Yes, just noticed that and updated it. Tepaki's been on the verge of changing for 10 years.

[Privateerkev]

Yes, just noticed that and updated it. Tepaki's been on the verge of changing for 10 years.

No, Tepaki was on the verge of a verge for 10 years. Now, they are finally on the verge. :clown:

*edit*

Also Aerovindos ek Samou has been retired and should be stricken from the Order's list.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The Tepaki has changed.

Estratios Monomachos is now the sole ruler of the Durazzoan Empire!

ALL WILL BOW BEFORE ME AND OBEY MY BRUTAL COMMANDS!!!


Or, you know, whatever the Emperor wants.

[TinCow]

I'm impressed. A Dux by the middle of the third Megas term (assuming nothing else changes). That's faster than I expected. Looks like Asteri will be able to do pretty much anything they want for a while, especially if they get the next Megas.

[Ituralde]

With all those House changes, could someone, I think it was Cecil the last time, put up one of those nice pictures where the different House areas are colour-coded? I always like to visualize things, but since I have two left hands when it comes to graphic editing I rely on one of you to do it! :beam:

[Ignoramus]

Yes, I really liked the first map, it was nice and informative, and it helps outsiders understand what's going on.

Is there a monthly review of LotR in the Gahzette like there was for KotR?

[OverKnight]

Good job FLYdude. :2thumbsup: An efficient (and a bit sardonic) term.

I'm assuming TC, as the game runner, will want to gavel in the next Senate Session.

[Ferret]

uhhh doesn't my SOT post mean what FLYdude has been doing with my army is illegal. He never had my permission to move it, let alone command it...

[Ituralde]

The Event sounds interesting, to say the least! I hope everybody who joins makes the most of it, I'm already looking forward to watch the in-fighting begin!

My avatar won't go, considering his unbelievably low piety and his current situation facing the Turks. Also, my avatars don't just go on the first Crusade event that comes along! :2thumbsup:

[Ignoramus]

I wonder how many of the Order will join...

[_Tristan_]

WOOT !! WOOT !! The Ptolemaic Empire will be reborn !!

[ULC]

I'd join, as soon as FD has the pagan magician removed. Seems in an effort to convert people, others have taken it upon themselves to convert the Order.

[Privateerkev]

uhhh doesn't my SOT post mean what FLYdude has been doing with my army is illegal. He never had my permission to move it, let alone command it...

FD posted in a couple Megas reports that both Asteri armies were combined into one army. So, you basically have 3 options.

1.) Let the situation stand.

2.) Ask Kalameteros for enough units in his army to make your own army.

3.) If Kalameteros refuses, you can demand that the Megas gather enough units from unlocked armies, unlocked garrisons, unsanctioned armies, and recruitment to make your own army.

[Cecil XIX]

With all those House changes, could someone, I think it was Cecil the last time, put up one of those nice pictures where the different House areas are colour-coded? I always like to visualize things, but since I have two left hands when it comes to graphic editing I rely on one of you to do it! :beam:

Don't worry, I was planning to anyway.

[woad&fangs]

grrgg, my little brother is monopolizing my totalwar computer so I can't view my avatar choices:brood:

This crusade thingamabobber should be interesting:sweatdrop:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

TC, I just looked the Senate Library thread and shouldn't Byblos be in the inactive players list too??

He haven't showed up here over a month now..

[Ferret]

FD posted in a couple Megas reports that both Asteri armies were combined into one army. So, you basically have 3 options.

1.) Let the situation stand.

2.) Ask Kalameteros for enough units in his army to make your own army.

3.) If Kalameteros refuses, you can demand that the Megas gather enough units from unlocked armies, unlocked garrisons, unsanctioned armies, and recruitment to make your own army.

Didn't I already order my army to constructed at the start of this term? And I only changed my post to allow deguerra to move my army after I got back and moving doesn't include my army. Hasn't the chancellor broken the law or something for not getting me an army, as the men under deguerra are in his not mine as only I am supposed to command mine...

Oh well just make sure I get one next term, whoever is chancellor :whip:

[Privateerkev]

Didn't I already order my army to constructed at the start of this term? And I only changed my post to allow deguerra to move my army after I got back and moving doesn't include my army. Hasn't the chancellor broken the law or something for not getting me an army, as the men under deguerra are in his not mine as only I am supposed to command mine...

Oh well just make sure I get one next term, whoever is chancellor :whip:

As I told deguerra in a PM, that situation only occured because you both let it occur. FD built you the army. He put it in Kalameteros's stack. Now, as for getting the army, you need to either get units out of the Asteri armies or demand that the new Megas make you an army.

[Ferret]

I only "let it occur" because I was on holiday with no internet access...

And I could always break my oath to him so he can't have an army and then demand that the chancellor give those units to me, which I will do if I have to...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Excellent, I'm glad that opinion for the Crusade is high right now. It should definitely be a good experience.

ATPG, I'll answer your PM sometime later today.

[TinCow]

TC, I just looked the Senate Library thread and shouldn't Byblos be in the inactive players list too??

He haven't showed up here over a month now..

If he misses a second regular Senate vote (this coming one), I will move him to inactive.

[Privateerkev]

I only "let it occur" because I was on holiday with no internet access...

And I could always break my oath to him so he can't have an army and then demand that the chancellor give those units to me, which I will do if I have to...

Sounds like a good thing to work out IC. :yes:


Excellent, I'm glad that opinion for the Crusade is high right now. It should definitely be a good experience.

That event seems to be just what the doctor ordered. :2thumbsup:

It gives the un-landed avatars something to do and has the potential to cause some good IC drama. In fact, I think the games have already started... :beam:

[Zim]

Nah, I'd just switch my oath to Markianos so he could keep his army. :beam:

Noone's taken your army, it's sitting right there in the stack with Kalameteros. I'm not sure which units are Kalameteros' and which are Hypatios', but about 30 seconds of talking to deguerra would clear it up if you are so against having Hypatios or his PA involved in the assault on Iconium.


I only "let it occur" because I was on holiday with no internet access...

And I could always break my oath to him so he can't have an army and then demand that the chancellor give those units to me, which I will do if I have to...

[Rowan]

Hah, I just checked the save and Bart has both Understands logistics and Poor logistician :yes:
So he knows what is needed to keep an army moving but has no grasp of it.

[Ferret]

Noone's taken your army, it's sitting right there in the stack with Kalameteros. I'm not sure which units are Kalameteros' and which are Hypatios', but about 30 seconds of talking to deguerra would clear it up if you are so against having Hypatios or his PA involved in the assault on Iconium.

Thanks that helps, and just to make it clear I have no problem with what was done I'm just still trying to understand the rules :laugh4:

Sorry if I offended you FLYdude. :shame:

[Privateerkev]

Hah, I just checked the save and Bart has both Understands logistics and Poor logistician :yes:
So he knows what is needed to keep an army moving but has no grasp of it.

Bart abstractly knows how to keep an army supplied but is very bad at implementing it. :laugh4:

[Rowan]

Bart abstractly knows how to keep an army supplied but is very bad at implementing it. :laugh4:

And the net result is -1 Command, -1 troop morale, 10% increased movement range... :whip: even if the situation is :wall:

[Privateerkev]

And the net result is -1 Command, -1 troop morale, 10% increased movement range... :whip: even if the situation is :wall:

So basically, he can keep the troops supplied but they are mad at him anyways. Maybe he supplies them with crappy food or something. :clown:

[Ferret]

Crappy food with good nutrients that lets them march further?

:clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

So basically, he can keep the troops supplied but they are mad at him anyways. Maybe he supplies them with crappy food or something. :clown:

Perhaps the supplies were not for men but for the horses?

Can't imagine 100 or so men eating hay or something like that.

This could make his men angry. :clown:

[Privateerkev]

Maybe Bart keeps them all well fed but doesn't let them drink or dabble in other "morale" raising pursuits. :clown:

[Rowan]

I might have to do a story on this... :clown:

[ULC]

Crappy food with good nutrients that lets them march further?

:clown:

Or maybe he has excellent food, and simply dangles it in front of them to get them to march that extra mile?

:clown:

[TinCow]

I am currently editing the save to get everything proper before doing the Library mugshots. While doing this, I have noticed that the following people have Pagan Magicians in their retinue and, as far as I can tell, none have asked for them to be removed:

Zigavinos Vasilakios (rossahh)
Ioannis Kantakouzinos (Kagemusha)
Vissarionas ek Lesvou (Ramses II CP)
Methodios Tagaris (Tristan de Castelreng)
Anastasios Neokaisareitis (The Lemongate)

If any of you want this retinue removed (it may help with your influence and/or Crusade army) please let me know as soon as possible.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ah, now this is the kind of PBM I'm used to. It took a while, but I think the politics reminiscent of KotR are finally in place. Buckle up, kiddies. :evil:

[OverKnight]

I have no idea what you're talking about. :laugh4:

I'm sorry, but the Patriarchal Represenative was being a bit uppity for the Basileus's taste. If the Patriarch himself would deign to enter the Magnaura, I'm sure he would receive a more courteous reception.

I'm afraid Aleksios is a bit miffed about how his Empire is being kidnapped.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sending a PM your way.

(Just let me finish ATPG's first)

[flyd]

Well, I say just go on and cancel the next chariot race and replace it by something much more interesting:

Emperor vs. Patriarch
6 rounds of boxing, 5 rounds of theological argument about the spiritual and temporal authorities of the Emperor and Patriarch and just who is the head of the Church (you know, other than that guy Jesus).
Odds are three to two in favor of the Emperor.

[GeneralHankerchief]

3:2 odds? You're living in the past, FLYdude. :laugh4: Emperors beating the crap out of religious authorities are last year's thing.

[OverKnight]

We shall see. :beam:

[TinCow]

It is worth pointing out that Aleksios now has 3 authority, which gives him access to a veto. God help any enemies of a Basileus who has 6+ authority.

[flyd]

Better propose two crusade Edicts then, worded slightly differently. :beam:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Better propose two crusade Edicts then, worded slightly differently. :beam:

I have a feeling that's going to be one of the loopholes that's going to work exactly once. :laugh4:

Might as well be this one though.

[Privateerkev]

Have I mentioned yet that I love this event?

I've had more fun today than I have had in a long time. :2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

Better propose two crusade Edicts then, worded slightly differently. :beam:

If there is not at least one difference of substance between them, I'll use the crotchety old Protoasecretes to declare them redundant and they will not be put to the vote. There must be some actual difference to the Edicts, not just a change in verbiage.

[AussieGiant]

In the immortal words of TOP GUN:

The tower has been definitely buzzed!!

Well done TC and GH. Like the banishment touch OK, that was sheer prissiness in action there :2thumbsup:

I've gone and blown on the embers to see what sparks :balloon2:

[Privateerkev]

And I've just dropped a couple bombs of my own. It's starting to feel like KotR again... :2thumbsup:

[Ignoramus]

It looks as if I read PK correctly - he has no respect for authority. :clown:

[Privateerkev]

It looks as if I read PK correctly - he has no respect for authority. :clown:

"In real life" I very much question authority. Constantly. It comes with the territory of studying power relationships for a living. Once you realize that "authority" is a constructed concept usually created and continued in very unequal ways, it gets easy to question it. :2thumbsup:

IC is different. Mak respects authority to a point. (technically, most of the characters respect authority to a point. The difference is where that point is.)

:beam:

[Ituralde]

:shocked:

Enemies shaking hands on the Senate floor!?

This isn't KotR after all... :inquisitive:

[OverKnight]

The only did that to avoid going to the Principal's office. :laugh4:

I thinked feigned sinceriety was a big part of KotR.

[TinCow]

I thinked feigned sinceriety was a big part of KotR.

Are you accusing Lothar of being insincere in his investigation of the Kaiser's murder?! :laugh4:

[woad&fangs]

This is what the messenger in the Magnaura was talking about.
https://img401.imageshack.us/img401/49/runforyourlivesjpegkm5.jpg

[Privateerkev]

That's what I get for not looking at the latest save... :laugh4:

It seems the AI likes to send men on "deep raids" as anyone who has followed "the tale of the wandering Templar general" can attest to.

Thanks for putting up the screenshot! :2thumbsup:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

That's just the good old AI. :beam:

[Privateerkev]

And from the screenshot, you can see how the Templar general has strategically placed himself in the exact spot that blocks all army movement between Antioch and Adana. You basically have to crawl past him one space at a time. :wall:

[Ferret]

You do have boats though...

[Privateerkev]

You do have boats though...

No, we have a boat. That is singular, not plural. (EF has been keen on being the grammar police lately.) :clown:

The boat can move 2 units at a time. So it would take a few turns to move the army by shuttle. But if you try to crawl around the guy, there is a chance, however small, that he will move out of the way.

[Ferret]

My mistake, I was under the impression that you had two boats, please forgive me :clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Perhaps the Egyptian Army can kill the Templar general?? :inquisitive:

[Privateerkev]

My mistake, I was under the impression that you had two boats, please forgive me :clown:

We did have 2 boats in the first term. But those floated away. Later in the second term, one floated over. It works fine for transfering Generals around or reinforcements from Nicosia. But it works less than fine for transporting whole armies around trespassing generals. :clown:


Perhaps the Egyptian Army can kill the Templar general?? :inquisitive:

Unfortunately, the Egyptians and the Templars are not at war yet. The Egyptians have been moving north, but obviously not far enough to move on Tortosa in force. And the Templars have spent the whole game massing a large crappy army south of Antioch and running one single general around our territory and giving me a headache. :laugh4:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

And the Templars have spent the whole game massing a large crappy army south of Antioch and running one single general around our territory and giving me a headache. :laugh4:

Poor Makedonios..

Just recovering from his pneumonia and now having a constant headache ...

When does the troubles with him ever end?? :clown:

[Privateerkev]

Poor Makedonios..

Just recovering from his pneumonia and now having a constant headache ...

When does the troubles with him ever end?? :clown:

He has also just gotten the "unhealthy" trait again. SS's sickness trait system just does not like my avatar...

:shame:

If he gets another 30 year pneumonia, I think I'm going to cry... ~:mecry:

[TinCow]

It could be worse, you could get leprosy.

[Privateerkev]

It could be worse, you could get leprosy.

That would really suck...

:sweatdrop:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

That would really suck...

:sweatdrop:

Seeing how weak Makedonios is physically then this does not look too impossible:no:

[Privateerkev]

Seeing how weak Makedonios is physically then this does not look too impossible:no:

Makedonios is not weak! He... just gets sick alot...

:laugh4:

[Dafuge]

20 years sickness would count for more than, 'alot.'

[Privateerkev]

20 years sickness would count for more than, 'alot.'

It was almost 30...

:shame:

[Dafuge]

Apparantly pneumonia carries on for a long time if a person is, 'elderly and frail or already ill.'

[Privateerkev]

Apparantly pneumonia carries on for a long time if a person is, 'elderly and frail or already ill.'


Makedonios the Frail...

Great...

:brood:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Makedonios the Frail...

Great...

:brood:

I think it sounds very well. :clown:

[Dafuge]

I agree that it suits him, how were the days when Makedonios was bed-ridden.

[Privateerkev]

I agree that it suits him, how were the days when Makedonios was bed-ridden.

boring...

He wrote lots of letters. He had people into his bed-chambers for meetings. He read lots of letters.

very boring...

He did fight one battle though. That was fun to picture. A coughing sick man charging into a knot of enemy infantry. :clown:

[Dafuge]

And then saved by a man called Nick, how inspiring.

[Privateerkev]

And then saved by a man called Nick, how inspiring.

I'm glad you felt inspired by my story. :clown:

[Dafuge]

I thought sarcasim was in great amounts in these boards, obviously it is either non apparant or considered truthfull.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

How long would this game last??

Will it continue 'till we see Timurids?? :clown:

Please please please.. people don't lose interest to this game before we see Timurids! :beam::clown:

[Privateerkev]

I thought sarcasim was in great amounts in these boards, obviously it is either non apparant or considered truthfull.

We are never sarcastic. Ever. We are very very serious.

:brood: <---- serious face

[Dafuge]

He looks rather peeved, serious but peeved.

[Privateerkev]

He looks rather peeved, serious but peeved.

He's peeved that you would even think that we would be sarcastic here.

:clown:

[Dafuge]

So what does the clown mean?

[Privateerkev]

So what does the clown mean?

It means I'm kidding.

:clown:

And now you get to wonder if I'm kidding about kidding. :beam:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Actually..

That clown face..

It shows how we really look like...

We all have red noses and green hair..

Yes.. yes.. that is true...

:clown:

[Dafuge]

Well if you were kidding about kidding then you wouldn't have posted a smilie face at the end of your post.

[Privateerkev]

Well if you were kidding about kidding then you wouldn't have posted a smilie face at the end of your post.

Or would I?


:inquisitive:

[flyd]

The most important thing about the clown face is to never put it into your posts.

Edit: Ever.

[Dafuge]

Do you notice that face looks just like the serious face but with abnormal bulging eyes like a frog.

[Privateerkev]

The most important thing about the clown face is to never put it into your posts.

Edit: Ever.


FD is right.

The clowny face is much more appropriate in your signature, in social groups, and in the profiles of people who hate clowny faces.

[Dafuge]

How can you describe yourslef as keeper of the clown. Clown were invented long before a crasppy smilie was invented.

[Zim]

The last game made it until right about the Timurid invasion so there's a good chance. :yes:


How long would this game last??

Will it continue 'till we see Timurids?? :clown:

Please please please.. people don't lose interest to this game before we see Timurids! :beam::clown:

[Privateerkev]

How can you describe yourslef as keeper of the clown. Clown were invented long before a crasppy smilie was invented.

I am not the keeper of the clown. I am the keeper of the clown smiley. :yes:

[TinCow]

How long would this game last??

Will it continue 'till we see Timurids?? :clown:

The game will continue until it ends. Like with WOTS and KOTR, we'll know it when we get there. WOTS lasted for about 11 months and 120 game turns and KOTR lasted for about 16 months and 150 game turns. I have a feeling that LOTR will go on a bit longer due to the greater level of freedom and opportunity for internal conflict, but it's hard to tell. Maybe it's just me, but so far the first two terms seem to have gone by pretty quickly. I think the new system for letting people move themselves is a lot more efficient than having one player set up all the battles. Turns are only taking 24-48 hours, whereas they could take 3-4 days at some points in KOTR.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The last game made it until right about the Timurid invasion so there's a good chance. :yes:

Yey..

Dances funny dance ...

[Dafuge]

I am not the keeper of the clown. I am the keeper of the clown smiley. :yes:

I would add in brackets at the end (at .org)

[Privateerkev]

I would add in brackets at the end (at .org)

But if I only have it in my sig here, then it is assumed that I mean here.

[Dafuge]

But what if another keeper of the clowns came and challenged you?

[Privateerkev]

But what if another keeper of the clowns came and challenged you?

There can be multiple keepers. Spread the :clown: love! :2thumbsup:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

But what if another keeper of the clowns came and challenged you?

Then there will be a "duel to the Death" in hotseat..

[woad&fangs]

11 unlanded avatars by my count. If we all go off crusading things could get rather interesting. :duel:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Yes it would..

I take Alexandria and Cairo and you others will have .. well.. nothing :clown:

[Dafuge]

How will you manage 2 at once?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

How will you manage 2 at once?

It's simple .. one after another .. :gah:




:beam:

[Dafuge]

If you have to siege one city what is to stop another avatar from sieging the other?

[woad&fangs]

With the movement bonus of a small army and a bit of luck it's entirely possible that one person could get both. The only catch being that he would have to defeat over 20 enemy units with just 3 of his own.

[Dafuge]

Pish, how simple.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If you have to siege one city what is to stop another avatar from sieging the other?

In the rules it is said that you can sabotage other crusaders ...

But .. to be honest .. I play fair and probably wouldn't cheat .. "probably" .. :beam:

[Dafuge]

What if they sabotage you???

[Ibn-Khaldun]

What if they sabotage you???

I don't think this is possible ..

I can not be sabotaged because I have the clown smilie with me! :clown: