BtSH The Curia [Archive]

navarro951

12-22-2008, 03:22

The Curia

https://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z132/mstgnymike/BtSH-3/Curia.jpg

The Dictator himself walks into the senate chamber and seats himself, he is aging, and would like to leave the future of Rome in good hands and with a bright future. Some water is brought to him, he takes a sip, and stands to speak.

"Good senators of Roma...before we start this senate meeting let me remind you of our rules here.
Know that edicts and Amendments can only be proposed while the Congressional Council is in session. However while we are not engaged in a congressional council, all other business may be discussed here. Legislation in congressional councils will start on my word and my word only. The emperor coughs...

Also, know your place in this senate. You may only propose as many edicts or amendments as you are aloud. Know that any legislation that is proposed is to be seconded by two senators before we may vote on it.

All legislations must be formatted properly to be used here. It must be done like so :Edict/Amendment X.Z: Text of Edict/Amendment. (X = Number of the Senate session, Z = Number of the Edict/Amendment within the Senate session.) For example, the third Edict proposed at the second congessional session would look like this: Edict 2.3: All senators will walk into the senatorial chamber whilst doing a hand stand. The numbers of all Edicts and Amendment proposed during an Emergency Session will be the same, but with an E preceding the numbering (i.e. Edict E2.3).

Let us also keep the peace here in this senate chamber. Intellectual debates are welcome, but to threaten harm upon another senator is to spill the blood from your own neck. If you carry a dagger with you, it must be confiscated before you enter this place of business."

Potocello

12-22-2008, 05:30

OOC: this is just for the 3 years trial correct?

navarro951

12-22-2008, 06:22

"I am declaring myself emperor for this 3 year term. After which we will elect our two new consul's."

I here by declare the first Congressional Council open! It will remain open for debate and legislation until December 23, 2008 at 9pm; at which point there will be 48 hours allotted for voting."

"I here by declare that Cnaevs Conelivs Scipio Asina and Lvcivs Cornelvis Scipio will hold the title of Legatus. Caivs Avrelivs Cotta you are a Tribunus, you may vote and debate, but are not allowed to propose legislation until your training is finished.

I have to edicts i would like to discuss:

Edict 1.1: Using the men being rallied in the fort below Arpi, we form the I Legion of Apulia. It will be a standard legion and consist of 4 Hastati, 2 Accensi, and 2 Eqvites. Most of these units can be mustered from what we already have.

everyone

12-22-2008, 07:33

Asina stands up

Sir, I think you are somehow mistaken, we are already allies of the Poeni and have granted them trade rights and military access sometime ago, I don't think there's a need for Edict 1.2 (ooc: the previous one) considering that we already trade with them.

Also, I would like to propose another edict:

Edict 1.2: Using Legion I of Apulia, led by one of the Legates with a Tribunus, move south to repel the small army of Epirus and besiege and capture the city of Taras.

we need to secure Italia by capturing Taras held by the tyrant Pyrrhus and deal with those traitorous dogs at Rhegion before we could concentrate our military efforts elsewhere

navarro951

12-22-2008, 08:31

"Indeed he laughs the age must be getting to me...i withdraw edict 1.2 and second your new edict 1.2"

/Bean\

12-22-2008, 09:18

Rather hesitantly, Cotta stands, glancing at Blasio, who gives a slight nod, swelling his confidence. As the chamber turns to look at him, Cotta clears his throat, and begins to speak.

Senators and Grand Dictator of Rome. I have recently graduated from the officer academy in Capua, and greatly look forward to proving all I have learnt in my four year training. I...he risks a quick glance at Blasio...I would like to propose that I join Legion I Apulia.

Cotta considers saying more, but a slight shake of the head from Blasio is enough, and he reseats, in order that the Dictator may ponder his application.

everyone

12-22-2008, 09:31

A few seconds after Cotta takes his seat, Asina hesitates for a moment, before standing up
Sir, if edict 1.2 (ooc: the new one) would be passed and put into effect, I would also volunteer myself as the Legatus to lead the attack on Taras, together with Tribunus Caivs Avrelivs Cotta

ooc: are tribunes allowed to second edicts? I recall them not being able to propose edicts

navarro951

12-22-2008, 09:34

"Legatus Asina, I have faith in the fact that you can conquer Taras. I will put you in charge of the I Legion of Apulia and hope you will uphold your duties while you command our men. Report to the legionary fort near Arpi at once and ready the troops being rallied there. As for young Cotta, if Asina will have you, you may serve as his second in command until you gain the rank of legatus."

OOC: Edict 1.3 will now be edict 1.2 so go ahead and edit that!

navarro951

12-22-2008, 10:16

"I also believe that for the moment, all our cohorts of Triarii must be disbanded as Denarii does not grow on trees. The men who serve in those cohorts are of the utmost best and have served Roma well. We will disband them and call on them when we have the money to keep them in service. For now, our Hastati and Principes should serve our legions well as the main line of defense and attack."

/Bean\

12-22-2008, 10:29

Cotta stands and bows
Thank you for your gracious and honourable decision. If Legatus Asina will only confirm my appointment, I will leave immediately.

everyone

12-22-2008, 10:43

Asina stands up, he seemed surprised

"Tribunus Cotta, do not be so hasty, for the congressional session has only started (ooc: a few hours ago); and also, edict 1.2, which if passed allows you to take up the post, has not had its required seconds"

Asina then turns towards the Emperor

"thank you, sir for appointing me the commander of Legio I Apulia, I shall not fail in my duties"
Asina pauses for a moment, and thinks, before continuing,
"and the triarii you mentioned of disbanding, perhaps the 2 units of them and units of acensi, leves or roarii may be rallied to form another legion, so as we may use them to capture the rest of Italia, before disbanding them, or re-enlisting them for further service."
Asina pauses again
"however, if we really need the denarii, perhaps the fleet stationed at the port in Eturia may be disbanded, as its maintainance cost is more than the upkeep cost of the 2 triarii we have, and we have no overseas dominions to protect"

/Bean\

12-22-2008, 11:15

Cotta stands, his cheeks reddened slightly by embarrassment.

Forgive me, Legatus. I did not finish my previous sentence. I did indeed mean to say I will leave immediately after the council session has concluded.

Turning towards the emperor...

I second Legatus Asina's most recent propersition. Should our initial attack on Taras fail, we will need forces to still be active, less the fools retaliate. With all due respect, Emperor, I believe it is too early to relieve these men of active service when they have previously done so much to ensure the survival and thrive of our country. We never know when another Pyhross may attack our shores, or another band of rampaging Celts may sweep through from the north. It is times like those we will need the cool collectiveness and the experience of these veteran fighters.

navarro951

12-22-2008, 19:58

"I believe the disbanding of our small navy will make more sense...however it will momentarily leave our ports open to blockade. So this is what shall happen. Our navy will be dismantled, and our Triarii will be used as replenishment should the first assault on Taras fail. At the moment, until Taras is captured at least, we will not create another Legion so for now all troops not being used in it will be for garrisons only."

navarro951

12-22-2008, 23:20

The Emperor rises...

I hereby declare that the time for proposing legislation has passed! Voting will begin shortly. There will be a one day period allocated for voting. Voting will end at 2pm GMT on Monday, December 23 or upon the time all senators have voted.

Roka

12-23-2008, 00:19

Lucius Cornelius Scipio enters the senate chambers

"I apologise for my lateness, I had hoped to be assigned comand of the new legion, however i cannot reasonably complain since i did not make it here in time."

ooc: since i stay in scotland i would appreciate more time to have my say in the next council session...

Looking at the Dictator

"I am yours to command."

navarro951

12-23-2008, 00:23

"My good son Scipio, if you have a proposal make it quick and we will vote here with a simple yey or nay....and I will have a command ready for you as soon as Taras has been captured. For now, You can stay put and await your own legion."

navarro951

12-24-2008, 12:26

The Emperors chief military adviser enters to display the topic of military tactics...

Standard Legionary tactics should play out as followed, it is not required but only recommended.

Your Ranged units should fire upon the enemy until they are near and then retreat into the first battle line which should be made up of Hastati or Rorarii. Principes or Triarii should make up the reserves as they are the most elite and can easily finish off a weakened enemy. Your Calvary should be placed in a placed in a position they can use to quickly flank or run down retreating enemy forces. Good luck in battle and use your training wisely. I open the floor for suggestion on the displayed tactics.

https://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z132/mstgnymike/BtSH/RomanMilitaryTactics.jpg

everyone

12-24-2008, 17:15

Asina, having just entered the Senate chambers a few moments ago making a large commotion, holding in his right arm a rather large slab of stone.
"pardon, a few moments please"
Asina hastily sets up a stand and places the stone slab on it. upon the stone slab is what seems to be a military strategy diagram.

https://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/greatkuningaz/othersuggestion.jpg

Asina takes a few glances around the chambers
"greetings senators, I notice there are a few new senators here, I shall take this chance to welcome you all, though you may not have spoken yet. I am returning to Rome for a few days while the rest of my Equites Consulares are in Arpi to upgrade their equipment (ooc: retraining)"

He turns towards the chief military adviser
"ah, dear sir, I would like to beg to differ from your suggestion on our Legionary Tactics, this is how I intend to engage the epirote forces, should they attack us in the field, or should they sally from their settlement"

Asina drags his index finger along the red line at the top
"since there is a rather limited number of infantry compared our enemy, we should position all our 4 infantry units of Legio I Apulia in a single line; with the Heavy infantry at the centre to hold the line while lighter infantry at the sides to protect from any enemy infantry flanking, for I doubt lighter infantry would hold the line long enough for our cavalry to deliver a flanking charge to the enemy."

he then drags his finger along the red line at the bottom
"our skirmishers would be placed behind the main infantry line, though they would have a shorter range to fire at the enemy, this is a precaution, in case our skirmishers do not have sufficient time to fall back, and that they may maintain a steady hail on our enemy."

he then moves his finger in a circular motion around the two squares at the side that seem to represent cavalry wings
"Our cavalry should be placed at the flanks of our infantry, as according to your battle strategy; I intend to use our relatively large number of cavalry to deliver a massive flanking charge to rout the enemy army within a short period of time, minimising casualties. as for how I am going to combat the Epirote's Tarantine Cavalry the next time, I intend to continuously pepper them with pellets from our accensi until they attempt to engage the accensi, which is when the lighter and more mobile (as compared to the equites consulares) equites Romani would chase them; for in my previous experience with them, they are rather hard to engage unless they are 'pinned'."

Asina takes a small step back, ready to listen to the opinions of others

ooc: I'll be role playing Asina's stubborn nature a lot, so he might not agree with the opinions of others, or change his strategies to include other's suggestions

desert

12-24-2008, 19:53

The voice of Mars is heard throughout the Senate Hall

Nooooo....Romaaaaaansss! You must use the triple acies...the triiipllee acieeeeeesssss....

https://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr309/desertSypglass/ew32.jpg

everyone

12-25-2008, 01:14

Asina glides his eyes across the Senate Chambers, apparently searching for the clown who made the voice. his glare is suddenly fixed on Servivs (Amicvs Popvli Romani)
"Servivs, this is not the place to fool around with your imitation of the God of War. and it is clear that you do not know the limitations we have on our armies, for example the amount of infantry, for right now our units of Cavalry are equal to the units of infantry in Legio I Apulia"

desert

12-25-2008, 01:24

Mars speaks again.

No, it is I, the great and warlike Mars!

The Servivs of which you speak is not even a Senator!

For roleplay purposes, I am not yet a Senator - if I ever even become one. So just pretend that was the voice of a god.

The dozen or so Servivs's in the Senate take turns swearing on their honor that they did not say anything.

everyone

12-25-2008, 01:34

bah!
ooc: since I can't find a way to say this IC I'll just turn to OOC momentarily:
well since you (desert) made the post I assume you were role-playing your character, Servivs A.P.R (Amicvs Popvli Romani); and it's true we can't adopt the strategy "Mars" showed everyone in a divine vision, since we do not have many units of infantry.
anyway I just realised that as a former client ruler, you can't be adopted into the family because it seems the game would glitch and create a clone of your character (sometimes, as explained in the EB bug reports)

navarro951

12-25-2008, 21:22

The Emperor rises and waves a hand across the Senate floor....he smiles...

"Let us all rejoice! The might of Roma will now be shown to the Epirote scum. Our new legion from Apulia is now complete and ready for battle.We should all wish good luck to Legatus Asina and Tribunus Cotta in their mission to capture Taras."

The Senate applauds and murmurs. The Emperor seats himself. Blasio turns to his father and whispers "Lets hope, for the sake of Roma, that all goes to plan and we don't have a slaughter on our hands. The Emperor nods..."Have faith my son"

everyone

12-26-2008, 01:23

A young man, dressed in the armour of a Hastati, Enters the Senate Chambers
"Noble Senatores, I have been sent by Legatus Cnaevs Cornelivs Scipio Asina, commander of the Legio I Apulia; I bring good news that the city of Taras has been captured by our unstoppable Legions! the rowdy population has been expelled"
https://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/greatkuningaz/0066.jpg
"and Legatus Asina wishes to pass this message to our great Dictator:"
the messenger hands the parchment over to the dictator, he unrolls it:
https://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/greatkuningaz/0067.jpg

ooc: edit: I just realised that the message has been cut off because I didn't scroll down

navarro951

12-26-2008, 02:45

The Emperor smiles, rises, and claps...

"Good men of the council, I would like to take this time to commemorate such a glorious victory. The Epiros show remember the name Apulia for years to come. Also I would like to announce that Legatus Asina will now be called upon as Dux Asina. He has proven his worth in combat and is ready to ascend in the ranks of military fashion."

"We must be quick to reorganize though. Unfortunately the celebration must be cut short. The rebels in Rhegion must be put to the sword.

Here are the next orders for Legio I Apulia. After I have ordered your retraining, you will proceed south to Brettia and eradicate those vile men who dare to call themselves true Romans. Go, eat, drink, and celebrate. Tomorrow your men will drill as hard as before."

The Emperor seats himself and nods...."The Floor is Open!"

everyone

12-26-2008, 04:33

"yes Emperor, I shall deliver the news and orders to Legat- I mean Dux Asina immediately"
with that the Soldier leaves the chambers are rides for Taras

navarro951

12-26-2008, 10:20

Heir Blasio enters the senate's chamber and seats himself.

"Good sentore sorry, but my father's illness kept him from his duties today. He asked me to relay a message though. The Emperor would like to announce that Roma should show its greatness through economic prosperity as well as expansion. Therefore, he has sent out his best architects and engineers to begin construction of a mighty highway that will speed up trade from Brettia to Etruria. Once it is finished, it is hope that he will leave behind, for Roma, a time of prosperity and coffers full of Denarii. So good senators, let us give praise in that we may leave something so that history will never forget our name"

The Celtic Viking

12-26-2008, 13:06

A young man enters the senatorial floor. He says a few quiet words to those he pass by, but is otherwise largely unnoticed. He finds an empty seat, takes and and sits quietly for a long while, just listening. Then finally he stands up.

"First of all I would like to introduce myself. I am Pvblivs Atilivs Regvlvs, of the Atilia family. With that said, I would like to ask the dictator if there is nothing I can do. I want to see action and serve my time as a Tribunus as quickly as possible, and though I realize money is tight and what army we have is full, I am being wasted here in the senate. I'm a soldier at heart and I want to see battle as one too."

everyone

12-26-2008, 13:31

A man dressed in the fine armour of an eqvites entered in the Senate Chambers a few moments ago, before Pvblivs Atilivs Regvlvs spoke
"Senatores, my commander, Dux Asina has sent me here to inform the senate that the Legio I Apulia has laid siege to the city of Rhegion and it shall fall the next season. Now I shall return to the south to rejoin the legion."

As the young man turns to leave, he abruptly turns to face the rest of the senate again.
"Tribunus Pvblivs, I believe that Legio I Apulia still has an opening for another Tribunus to be third in command; though I am doubtful that you could make it in time to join the assault on Rhegion. And Dux Asina would welcome another Tribunus to aid him"

the young man held his helmet at his side, ready to leave, yet anticipating an answer.

OOC: darn, I kept referring to TCV as "Kleoronomos Basileus" throughout the whole post while typing it :wall:

The Celtic Viking

12-26-2008, 13:59

"Is that so? Then I will move south as fast as I can. Thank you."

OOC: Heh, and I accidentally wrote Sarpedon. :laugh4:

everyone

12-26-2008, 14:06

The horseman nods
"very well, I shall ride ahead of you and inform Dux Asina of you"
The horsemen then places the helmet he was holding over his head, exits the chambers, mount his horse a rides south.

navarro951

12-27-2008, 06:40

Finally, with a blessing of strength from the Gods the Emperor returns to the senate

"Young Tribunus Regvlvs, let me also extend my welcome. Unfortunately, I believe our greetings will be short lived. Although, my son Blasio is ready to rule so I do not worry. *He coughs harshly* I will say that yes, it is indeed wise that you server our your time as a Tribunus with Dux Asina. He is a wise commander and has already proven himself true and tactically capable. I bid you good luck on your departure south and in battle as well."

With another painful cough, a servant attempts to lend a hand to him but is shaken off. The Emperor rises slowly and walks out once more...

everyone

12-27-2008, 14:19

The senate Chamber's doors open, Cnaevs Cornlivs Scipio Asina walks into the room with a confident stride, though still panting; he looks similar to the previous time he left, except for a few light scars; he was still as bald, and his beard neatly trimmed; dressed in his senatorial clothing.

"Fellow Senatores, our noble Imperii Heres Electus (OOC: the Dictator isn't in the senate chamber right?); I bring word that our Legio I Apulia under my command has liberated Rhegion from the traitorous Legion sent there a couple of years back; their commander, Avlvs Decivs Ivbellius and his commanding officers have been captured and are being punished; the good name of Rome has been restored, so far as possible, among our allies."
https://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/greatkuningaz/0078.jpg

Asina then takes out a few pieces of parchment and arranged them, and hands it over to the Imperii Heres Electus.
"sir, this is the report I have made regarding the assault"

with that, Asina bows and awaits further orders

since Asina is an optimist, I won't make him mention that many were killed

navarro951

12-27-2008, 15:56

Heres Blasio rises...

"Dux Asina, my father sends his regards and commemorates your victory. His only order is that you declare whether or not you believe your second in command Tribunus Cotta is ready to gain the title of Legatus and is finished with his training. If you feel he is ready, announce your decision."

Blasio stares sharp into Asina's eyes and awaits an answer...

everyone

12-27-2008, 16:01

"Yes, I declare that Tribunus Cotta is done with his training, he has done an excellent job while being the 2nd-in-command of Legio I Apulia; he is ready to gain the title of Legatus."

OOC: actually I didn't know I had to declare, I had assumed that the Emperor/Dictator would decide

navarro951

12-27-2008, 16:03

"Then by the power of my father, and this senate, I here by declare that Tribunus Cotta is now to be titled Legatus Cotta. When resources permit it, a new legion will be put together under his command."

everyone

12-27-2008, 16:23

Asina nods
"Yes, sir, I shall deliver the news to Legatus Cotta; him, Tribunus Regvlvs and I would return to this Senate Chamber the following year for the Congressional Session."
Asina then takes a step back to await any further orders before leaving the chambers.

Potocello

12-30-2008, 06:21

Servivs Sempronivs Longvs enters the Senate chambers for the first time, slightly trembling, he looks upon other men...

"Greetings Senators, I have lived in Roma for quite some time now and as of the past few years, i have become rather restless. As a Tribvnvs i desire the chance to prove myself on the battlefield, and under the command of one of you, I think I could do this well. I would follow you loyally and i am ready do die at your side for the glory of Roma!
I am currently in Roma and am ready to move any location necessary."

Servivs stands there awkwardly, waiting for an answer

everyone

12-30-2008, 11:07

(OOC: since Asina's still on his way to Roma, this guy is an officer from Legio I Apulia who just happened to be in Roma, checking the senate for anything Asina needs to know)

A man, who has been sitting inconspicuously in a corner for the past few hours stands up, he is still wearing the military attire of an officer, though his left shoulder is bandaged

Hail, tribunus. I am Prefect Cato; some here may have met me before, if not let me introduce myself as a senior officer in Legio I Apulia, currently stationed in Roma; I've come on behalf of Dux Asina who is on his way to Roma right now. He has requested that I accept the next tribunus to volunteer himself to serve in a legion as Legio I Apulia has an empty post for another Tribunus.

If you accept this invitation from Dux Asina, you would join Legio I Apulia and we shall set off to wherever the dictator would order us the following year.

I shall pass your reply to Dux Asina once he reaches Roma in autumn.

/Bean\

12-30-2008, 11:29

Legatus Cotta stands. He had only just arrived, and had cut short afew small conversations of congratulations and the like to speak.

Heres Electus and members of the Senate,

As you are aware the new legion has its commander, but it's commander has yet to have his Tribunes. In polite debate with Dux Asina and Prefect Cato, I would also like to extend my offer of a Tribune posting in the new legion. I am looking for two senior Tribunes, thus all applications will be considered and two will be chosen. I ask any assembled Tribunes to make themselves known and I will consider their applications immediately.

Thank you.

Il_Duce

12-30-2008, 18:26

Upon hearing the offer from Legatvs Cotta, Tribvnvs Nero arose from his seat and cleared his throat

I acknowledge your offer and hereby apply for the newly formed legion. I have ample military experience within the Legion I served faithfully for and am eager for more experience in a commanding role.

I will be posted in the army fort located north of Roma, up the river. If I am not here you will find me there.

/Bean\

12-30-2008, 18:35

Cotta stands to answer.

Thank you, Tribune Nero. Your application will be taken to note, but please be aware the final decision will only occur once the legion is formed.

Il_Duce

12-30-2008, 18:38

I fully understand and thank you and Dux Asina.

Mjolnir

12-30-2008, 19:13

The junior Senator from the Gens Aemilia, Caivs Aemilivs Mamercvs, stands.

The Aemilii have a always supported the Republic with our swords. Should an officer opening become available in any Legions I would gladly put myself forward as a candidate to help expand the Republic's borders.

/Bean\

12-30-2008, 19:15

Cotta nods to the young tribune.

I appreciate both of your enthusiasm, and thank you both for volunteering. If you both feel the same come the approach of the new legions completion, you will have places reserved for each of you.

navarro951

12-31-2008, 05:41

"I here by declare the second Congressional Council open! It will remain open for debate and legislation until January 2, 2009 at 9pm Pacific GMT; at which point there will be 48 hours allotted for voting."

navarro951

12-31-2008, 05:59

The Emperor enters the room feeling much better then usual...

"Good senators, the God's have blessed me with a full nights rest and I am again able to take the floor. However, my time as Emperor has beat me to the core. It is time to decide the Consul's. Now as only one Dux is present, he points to Dux Asina, I will simply name him Consul of the Legion's. You have served well in combat and I feel you can bare this title. I will continue as the current Consul of Finance.

Now:
I will propose some legislation.

CA 2.1: That the following changes be made to the rank of Quaestor.

Quaestor
Requirements: Must be at one point the owner of a Provincial Dictatorship Must get 12 'battle points' (Rule 2.5)
Influence: 2 + 1 Stat Influence
Powers:
(1) Can propose two Edict/Charter Amendment per 'Congressional' Session.
(2) Can lead an army of max 12 units unless it is an Imperial Legion.
(3) Can have 2 units of their choice as their Bodyguard Army. These Units must be available in the region where the general was in the time he got this rank. These units can not be disbanded nor can they be removed from the Player by the Dictator.
(4) Can be granted a Provincial Dictatorship.
(5) Can form a Family/House
Changes are in Bold

CA 2.2: That the following changes be made to the rank of Praetor.

Praetor
Requirements: Must get 20 'battle points', Must vote in at least 2 'Congressional' Sessions.
Influence: 2 + 1 Stat Influence
Powers:
(1) Can lead an army of max 14 units unless it is an Imperial Legion
(2) Can be granted a Provincial Dictatorship.
(3) Can propose two Edicts/Charter Amendments per 'Council' Session.
(4) May sponsor a House/Family of he wishes
Changes are in Bold

CA 2.3: That the new rank of Aedile be added to the Charter.

Here are the ranks attributes:

Aedile
Requirements: Must have at least 1 Managements stat-point and appointed to this rank by the Consul of Finance.
Influence: 1
Powers:
(1) With this rank one settlement is given to the player to govern.
(2) Can set the build queue and tax rate for their settlement under their control.
Can destroy any building in their settlement under their control.
(3) Can propose one Edict/Charter Amendment per 'Congressional' Session.
(4) Can lead a legion of max 10 units unless it is an Imperial Legion.
Penalties:
(1) This rank is always tied with the settlement they have received. Once the player has left from the province of that settlement he will loose this rank automatically.

And finally...
Edict 2.1: That the commissioning of Legio II Latium be proclaimed.

Potocello

12-31-2008, 06:20

Servivs Longvs smiles graciously at Prefect Cato for making the offer and says

"Prefect Cato, i gladly accept your offer to serve under Dux Asina as his next Tribvnvs."

Servivs bows slightly to the senators and sits

Il_Duce

12-31-2008, 07:12

I second edict 2.1

I will listen to the arguments put forth against the Charter Addendums and then form an opinion.

Mjolnir

12-31-2008, 07:55

Fellow Senators it gladdens me to see the military of our glorious Republic being enlarged so, but now we must decide at which target to aim the Roman spear. To the north lays the barbarian Gauls and their Celtic allies, to the south our rival Carthage is growing stronger, and to the east our bitter enemy Pyrrhus of Epirus still holds sway. Which of these dangers should be dealt with first and in what manner, I will leave to older and more experienced Senators but it does need to be addressed.

/Bean\

12-31-2008, 08:49

Legatus Cotta stands

Honourable Senators and Dictator,

As so recently promoted to the rank of Legatus that I am, I will of course straight away second the Edict 2.1.

Now, in response, or indeed continuation of Senator Mjornir, I would like to propose the expansion of our great nation. The city of Roma has always proclaimed and proven its superiority in land forces, in its army and the strength of its glorious legions. Now is the time to prove it further.

It is not so many years since we faced the constant threat of invasion from the north. For decades we were playthings of the Celts. Rome does not forigve or forget, gentlemen. I propose we strike north, to punish those who left us for dead, and to unite our glorious country under the leadership of a single nation. Rome.

For those of you who speak of the unresolved question of Phyrros, or the rising power of Carthage, allow me to speak my mind on these. Phyross is a dying breed; a last desperate attempt by a nation who has exhausted itself by travelling to the ends of the earth to keep its place in history. I assure you, great senators, history is exactly what they are. The Epirites have now failed twice to expand in Italia, and now have been pushed away by an alliance of Rome and Carthage. Phyross hides in his mountain country, taking his anger and frustration out on that penisular. He is no longer a threat to us. There will come a time in the future when we will repay him for the damage he has caused, but today there is no need.
And Carthage? Although we have our differences, we are still in a loose alliance with them. DOes that count for nothing nowadays. Of course, if one day their power threatens ours, we may have to solve our differences, but first we must prove our power. How can we be seen as powerful when we cannot control the whole of our own country?

Thus, grand senators, I propose Edict 2.2. March north with Legio I Apulia and Legio II Latium with the objective of uniting Italia under Roma. If fully successful, Roma will control all the land from Bruttium to the Alps.

everyone

12-31-2008, 09:09

Dux Asina enters the senate chambers; after conversing with Prefect Cato for a while, Asina nods his head and the prefect leaves the senate chamber.
He then stands up, facing Tribunus Servivs.

"Tribunus Servivs, Prefect Cato had informed me that you accept the invitation for an open officer post in the Legio I Apulia, I accept your application; you may join the legion after this congressional session. I shall forward more instructions once I receive them from the Dictator or the Heres."

Asina turns to the Emperor

"Sir, thank you for my appointment as Consul of the Legions, I shall ensure the Republic legions shall not falter. However I would like to inquire on the change to the Quaestor rank, what are the requirements of being granted a provincial dictatorship? If only a Quaestor may be granted a prov. dictatorship; how does one become a quaestor in the first place? And if one needs to be a Prov. Dictator to become a Quaestor, does a Quaestor come with all the powers and influence of a Prov. Dictator?"

Asina turns to the rest of the Senate

"and I would like to propose this Charter Ammendment 2.4 with my rank as a Dux:

4.2 Standard Legions
Regular Armies consist of a minimum of 5 infantry cohorts, 2 ranged and 1 cavalry cohort.
(changes in bold)

This is because, I have found that without sufficient coforts of infantry and a relative abundance of cavalry, Legio I Apulia took rather high casualties from the assault on Rhegion. Also, I believe the bodyguard of the Generals and his deputies are enough to handle the job.

OOC: also, it's for more historically accuracy, because Rome had infantry-based armies with a small amount of cavalry compared to infantry; if you count the bodyguard units of the generals, it would make the amount of cavalry almost the same as infantry (4 units of cavalry (2 generals+2 cavalry) and 4 units of infantry)

edit (add on, since Baen posted before I completed my post):

Asina turns to Cotta

"Ah, Legatus Cotta I second your Edict 2.2, with the two legions together, we are sure to be able to defeat the huge yet undisciplined armies of Liguria and Aemilia"

OOC again: we should also bold the sentences which we say we second an edict/CA and propose one.

/Bean\

12-31-2008, 09:36

Thank you, Consul. I also second your Charter Ammendment. We have a history of infantry armies, we have shown they work well. Let this continue.

Mjolnir

12-31-2008, 09:49

Tribunus Mamercus listens thoughtfully to Legatus Cotta's speech and then stands to lend his support.

Legatus Cotta's words are wise, let us finish what we have started here in Italia. I too second Edict 2.2.

navarro951

12-31-2008, 11:10

I second your Charter Amendment as well my good friend. We shall see many new foot soldiers in years to come.

everyone

12-31-2008, 11:16

"Thank you Emperor Denatvs; however I am still confused over the particular matter about the Quaestor and Provincial Dictator thing; could you possibly clarify, thank you."

Asina remains standing

navarro951

12-31-2008, 11:27

"Very well, a Quaestor, must have a Provincial Dictatorship. If it is taken from him for any reason, he remains Quaestor. But to achieve the rank he simply has to prove both military and governing skill. This is the only reason he must at least be a Provincial Dicator at one time. Is this what you are asking?"

OOC: If you look i have now made this change in my proposed CA

everyone

12-31-2008, 11:31

Ah yes, thank you.

OOC: I think you should also put that line in the FAQ

Ibn-Khaldun

12-31-2008, 11:59

Qvintvs Fabivs Licinvs walks into the Senate..

Senators,

I hear you are talking over our next targets. You say that we must take the lands of barbarians in north of us. And looks like you want to do this only with 2 Legions? I've heard that they have these naked warriors, Gaesatae, who can not be killed. I've also heard that they are taller and stronger than normal men. Also, they have plenty of them in their ranks. You really want to go against them now??

I think if we want to expand then we should expand to either Sicily or Greece. Sicily is a rich land and Syracuse have been a pain in our ass a long time. The same goes to Greece.

Qvintvs takes his seat after this rather long speech..

navarro951

12-31-2008, 12:16

The Dictator rises..

"Good senators, we are getting ahead of ourselves. Let us not forget the pact and truce we have to not cross into Sicilia. My plans are to take the independent nations on our northern borders and keep the peace with the barbarians for now. Taking these cities will be tough enough and after this is done we will discuss what will become of the Epirotes and Sicilia."

/Bean\

12-31-2008, 14:00

Cotta rises (ooc: this is entirely character wise, Ibn, I have no rl problems with you, just to let you know :clown:

We are not cowards, Qvintvs Fabivs Licinvs. Perhaps you have forgotten what it was like to live in constant fear of the giants from the north, but I haven't. My father spent years in the legions, fighting these Celts, among other enemies, and they died the same as any other men; cold steel will be enough to stop these fools. If, of course, they prove too much for you, perhaps it may be safer for you to watch from afar in the comfort of your villa, and let the soldiers do the fighting.

everyone

12-31-2008, 14:26

Asina glances around the senate chamber, attempting to predict the moves of other senators, whether they would stand and speak. After a few moments of glancing, Asina rises and speaks

Tribunus Qvintivs may be right about those barbarian celts, they may die as easily, but they fight with more zeal than our soldiers do;

but my reports from the spies near Bononia say that the combined strength of two legions would outnumber the enemy rather comfortably; and our soldiers are more well-trained than theirs; those celts being an undisciplined bunch, fighting with their chests bare and only a shield to protect themselves.

As the dictator has mentioned, we should capture the regions along our northern border and unify Italia, before concentrating somewhere else. It would prove to be a difficult task but our soldiers shall succeed, and after the campaign, we would have 2 legions of hardened veterans to face whatever other adversaries we might encounter.

He sat down, seemingly satisfied by what he said

Ibn-Khaldun

12-31-2008, 14:35

Quintus stands up..

Are you calling me a coward?? You better watch your tongue, you little boy! I just wanted to say that it's stupid to go against them with only two Legions! Also, I'm not some stupid and arrogant equestrian who can't see further than their own front door! In Sicily we have a chance if properly played out. In north.. well.. we would just let barbarians destroy our Legions!

OOC: I always keep OOC and IC apart. :yes:

everyone

12-31-2008, 14:54

Asina glared at Quintus momentarily after the latter's outburst; and then mumbled to himself something unintelligible, before standing

One should not be so Choleric, Quintus; you may be right that the lands of Sicilia are richer, however taking over those lands would be seen as a breach on one of our treaties with the Poeni.
however taking over the lands to the north would not be as difficult as those tribes there are barely unified, we could take on the armies of aemilia while the men of Liguria stand at one side, watching their fellow celts being crushed under our caligae.

/Bean\

12-31-2008, 15:08

Cotta stands to answer

Whether or not you respect the man, you wil always respect the rank, Tribune.
I may not have served in the army long, but already I have seen more than your older years could have seen in a life time. Would you have us promote Rome as an untrustworthy beast, who dispenses with treaties once they have served their purpose? We made a pact with the Poeni to defeat a common enemy. Now that this enemy has returned defeated to his homeland, you wish to turn on our one time staunch allies and stab them in the back? This is ludicrous; the Gods curse the day that you are ever given a command.

Cotta sits with slightly redder face than when he had stood

Ibn-Khaldun

12-31-2008, 15:44

Quintus stands again..

To me a man behind the rank is more important than the rank itself!
And you think that I don't know anything about fighting? I fought against Pyrrhus in the battle of Beneventum! It's just that I don't mention this everytime I speak with someone!
And why do you think that those Carthaginians honor the treaties we made with them and wouldn't try to stab us into back??

SwissBarbar

12-31-2008, 15:50

A young man entered the room. His body was athletic and strong, his angular face expressed calmness and contentedness and his intelligent eyes radiated dignity. This mans name was Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs, son of one of the oldest and most prominent families in Roma, the Gens Aemilia. When he was even younger, he used to celebrate often and was well known for his orgies and affinity to excessive drinking. He still liked the easy life but now, at the age of 22, he decided to appear on the stage of politics to prove he was worthy of wearing the name of the Aemilii. Though he had a wild youth, he was known as a polite and accommodating person, who treated others - even people of lower rank - with kindness.

Now he was Tribunus of Roma. He was thought since childhood to consider himself as a true Roman, so this was a great honour for him. He looked around and lifted his hand.

"Ave senatores! To me it is an honour to be here. Thank you for your invitation."

He did not say more than that, because he wasn't requested to do so and because some of the others argued about something. So he sat down and listened what the other Senators had to say.

I tried to describe him based on his ingame traits. He also will behave here based on those traits, so if I got unfriendly in here, please don't take it personal ;-)

/Bean\

12-31-2008, 16:26

Cotta was about to reply to Quintus' retorts, when the senate doors opened, and young man entered the chamber. "Ave senatores! To me it is an honour to be here. Thank you for your invitation," spoke he. Cotta recognised him as Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs, a young figure of the powerful and ancient Aemilii family line. Cotta was about to ignore him and answer to Quintus' remarks, when an idea formed in his mind. Slyly, he smiled, before resuming an honest face, and speaking.

"Greetings, Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs. It is a pleasure to meet you at last. I have heard great things about you. We were just...discussing... the next destination of Rome's armies. I'm sure a young Tribune such as yourself would welcome a chance to strike back at old enemies to the north, gaining experience in waging war and command in the Legio II Latium. What say you, senator?

SwissBarbar

12-31-2008, 17:25

Aemilivs looked at the Senator and smiled back. Almost he laughed out, but he could contain it. He was very pleased to see, that this even younger Roman seemed to be smart as a fox. Aemilivs, a smart fellow himself, always thought the Senate to be a bunch of old and boring men, but this appeard to become far more interesting as he expected.

My friend, thank you very much for your warm and honest welcome. He smiled. I've caught up the last bit of your .... discussion ... and I must say, since I am a young and highly motivated Tribunus, I indeed am keen on making soon the experience of defeating our enemies in battle.

But first you have to explain, why I should make this experience in the coldness of the north, while I could also fight enemies in the warm climate of the south. How strong are our armies? How strong are our enemies? Are we able to replace soldiers fast, if we should fail in the first campaign, or would we be protectless, if we don't succeed at the first try? Are the northern enemies weaker than those in the south? And isn't the south economically more profitable?

Convince me, and I'm your man.

everyone

12-31-2008, 17:59

Asina, after much deliberation, stood up

Since Legatus Cotta seems to be in a reverie (OOC: offline), I shall answer this question, though I am not representing him.

To answer your questions:
Our two legions combined outnumber the seperate armies of Aemilia and Liguria each by a comfortable margin; our only main threat are those wildmen known as "gaesatae"; but they are still men and could be felled by a blade in their innards.
Yes, we are able to replace our soldiers relatively fast; troops can be raised immediately from neighbouring provinces and replacements would be stationed there; since it is my job as the new Legion of the Consuls to provide sufficient troops, I shall not fail in that task.
Though the garrison of our southern provinces are slightly weak, it is unlikely that any sizable force would arrive from there.
The northern tribes (of Italia) are stronger than those of Sicilia, but an invasion of Sicilia now would not be a wise move as our allies, the Poeni, consider Sicilia under their sphere of influence; if we intrude, we might face a war and lose a valuable trading partner and leave our ports vulnerable to blockades.

As for a possible invasion of Greece, I don't think that's possible with the current resources we have; and it would incur a lot of expenses as we have to build a fleet, deal with logistics, and reports show that Pyrrhus and his Epirotes have a strong base in Greece

/Bean\

12-31-2008, 18:13

Cotta stands again, after his previous mind wandering (ooc: Cotta actually went to get his hair cut, then had a (edit: lovely, long, hot) shower, so may have appeared 'offline' to his fellow senators).

Thank you Consul. I hope this justifies our reasons, Tribune Aemillivs. As for your seeming reluctance to travel north, I can answer this only through your own desire. We live in a warm climate, it is true, and it does get warmer to the south. But if our soldiers waged war simply according to the levels of warmth during the colder seasons, we would not be powerful at all. Struggles and hardships make a soldier, not warm climates and comfy beds.

Potocello

12-31-2008, 18:46

Servivs Longvs sits in the corner pondering what has been said throughout the Senate chamber. He quickly makes up his mind and decides to stand. Looking at the senators he says...

"Good senators, Dux Asina and Legatus Cotta are best looking out for the interests of Roma. If we invade to the north, not only will we unite Italy, but our soldiers will gain much more experience fighting the ruthless barbarians in the north. As Legatus Cotta said, "struggles and hardships make a soldier, not warm climates and comfy beds." Plus, can we risk the concequences of what is to come if we break the treaty and invade Sicily? The world will no longer look upon Roma as the honorable nation we are, but will put us on a level comparable to those naked barbarians in the north. Senators, listen to these wise men and vote to move our armies north to defeat the barbarians.

Servivs sits, waiting for the replies from his fellow senators.

/Bean\

12-31-2008, 19:17

Boldly, Cotta stands again.

Senators, it seems support against the strike north is waning. I can no longer see any valued argument against it, and indeed the Consul and the Dictator have spoken in favour of it. I believe any continued aggression to this edict may be seen as a personal attack or the sake of argument; not something we promote within this chamber. Therefore I propose that this matter may now be moved aside until the voting, and we can concentrate on other matters of state; other edicts.

YouHaveRecieved

12-31-2008, 19:43

Ave Senators.

I am Titus Valerius Maximus of the proud family Valeria. I have recently been entered into the Senate as a Partician. Anyway down to buisness.

My clerk has recently enlightened me on the past talking of the Senate so I will begin with my thoughts. I have no pity for pety alliances with Carthage or any other Africans for that matter. Though Sicily is going to be one of the biggest trade centres of the Western Mediterranian in a few years, I believe it to risky. We have two proper Legions at the moment and Sicily is a big island. Greeks, mercanarys and African Nobles defend near all towns.

Our north however is fragile, and likely to collapse without further funding or reinforcements. Do you want Gauls to invade or a bunch of geese to get us out of bed in the nick of time? Bononia is ripe for the taking. The Arveni are in constant conflict with Audie and Patavium would also be ill-defended, in which time Mediolanum will also suffer the same fate. The Ligurians will defy us to the last, and we should seek peace with them for now, their stronghold of Segesta will have to wait.

After that I belive we should build up our infastructure including our navy. We commands postitions and the like before we can challenge Carthage. Their many fleets can easily support their island holdings.

Titus nods to the Senators to thank them for listening.

Sorry I replace all the V's with U's just for practicality.

Potocello

12-31-2008, 19:57

Servivs stands

I second Cotta's motion to move to other topics.

Servivs sits

Mjolnir

12-31-2008, 20:18

Fellow Senators, I have been informed that the two Greek colonies recently captured by the Republic are being governed as Provincia Romanae rather than as Adminstratio Regionum Italicara as has always been done in the past. While I have no quarrel with that decision since it will allow us wider recruitment, the issue of how we plan on governing the northern provinces we take does need to be addressed. On the one hand we can fully incorporate them into our Republic and gain their full loyalty and manpower and on the other we can take the quicker and cheaper route of setting up a puppet ruler and gain access to mercenaries and economic benefits or perhaps something in between? Perhaps one of the Consuls or older Senators would like to put forth a proposal?

/Bean\

12-31-2008, 20:50

Cotta stands, a quizzical smile upon his face

What exactly are you suggesting here, I wonder. Are you perhaps looking to take command of one of these provinces for yourself? May I remind you a Provincial Dictatorship is a heavy burden and not one given out lightly to lesser men.

Mjolnir

12-31-2008, 20:55

You misunderstand me Legatus Cotta. I am simply suggesting we formalize the degree to which we plan to Romanize the peoples to the north of our borders after we pacify them.

(OOC: i.e. Whether we plan to use Type I, Type II, or Type III government in the northern provinces when we capture them.)

/Bean\

12-31-2008, 21:01

And I am wandering your intentions behind such a question, Senator.

Mjolnir

12-31-2008, 21:12

And I'm not sure I like the implications of that statement. I am a man of the Republic and my only concern in bringing up this issue is her well-being, nothing more. This is an issue of citizenship, should the peoples north of our borders be brought up to the level of us in central Italia immediately or not.

YouHaveRecieved

12-31-2008, 21:25

I think we should gradually intercrate them into our Republic. The people will Romanise over time, as it should be. Senator Cotta, I don't think he has any intent behind his question. He is wondering what type of government we should place in the Northern provinces if the Republic does conquer them.

Also when this session ends I would like to join an army. Are any of the legions looking for a young Tribunus?

Il_Duce

12-31-2008, 22:19

Qvintvs Fabivs Licinvs, I admire your fire. I do.

But as we sit here an speak of having but two legions to conquer these so-called Barbarian 'warlords', do we insist on kidding our selves that the same army would be better off crossing an entire sea to a foreign land and fighting trained Greek armies led by competent generals?

To the south, we are protected by a large body of water-- a natural stone wall if you will. Yet we are shielded from the Cisalpine Celts by the Rubicon... a mere river! These tribes have been fighting amongst each other for years. If we march north, it will be equivalent to a large pile of leaves trying to defeat a stiff autumn wind.

It would comfort me to have more men in our great legions, but it would be made all the easier with the acquisition of just one province to the north.

I hereby support Edict 2.2

navarro951

01-01-2009, 01:46

The Dictator has heard much debate and stands...

"Good Senators, this bickering is unnecessary. I have issued no such orders to invade Sicilia, or anywhere near the Greek nations and nor shall I. Our first military order of business will be to secure the whole of Italia itself. You men speak of conquering yet we have not even constituted the the whole of our own peninsula.

Legio I Apulia:Under Consul Asina, they will march in force and conquer the independent settlement of Segesta when I give the order.

Legio II Latium: When Legatus Cotta's legion is ready, they will claim the independent village of Bononia.

These are my orders.

SwissBarbar

01-01-2009, 02:01

"Caivs Avrelivs Cotta, my friend, do not question the intentions of Caivs Aemilivs Mamercvs or any other member of the Gens Aemilia, as one of the gentes maiores, concerning the welfare of our beloved Roma. Our family only wanted - and still does want - the best for Roma for centuries, LONG before the Gens Avrelia appeared. And please don't take my words concerning the climate in the south literally. Don't let my rhetorical ornamentation mislead you to think an Aemilivs to be a pansy. History proves the contrary.

I just asked for reasons, since I did not hear the whole conversation. And you all showed me good reasons to go north."

Ibn-Khaldun

01-01-2009, 03:00

Quintus speaks ..

Well, if you want to go against those northern barbarians with your toy soldiers then fine. Go, do it. But don't come back here whining when those unwashed naked drunkards beat your legions apart!

But there is another thing I must ask.. We are at war but taxes in most of our cities are not as high as they could. Why is that? We can raise taxes 'Very High' in most of our cities except Rhegion. So, why don't we do that? We need Legions and Legions need money. It's that simple!

Quintus takes his seat..

navarro951

01-01-2009, 03:08

Good Qvintus,

I will already be ordering the raising of taxes.

everyone

01-01-2009, 03:46

Good dictator, I'm afraid that subjugating the armies of Segesta and Bononia would not be possible with one legion each, I suggest that we should send both legions against one target at once, as the garrison armies of those two cities are both rather large; however against the combined strength of both legions, we would outnumber them rather comfortably

and regarding the taxes, I shall also increase taxes nationwide, we should expect to see more denarii in our coffers soon, and also more troops marching in cities and countrysides

/Bean\

01-01-2009, 04:04

everyone

01-01-2009, 04:10

I'm not saying that I am afraid of defeat, it's that attacking each settlement with a force minute compared to the settlement's garrison is unwise.

Il_Duce

01-01-2009, 05:57

Cotta stands to reply to Asina

Consul, we should not be afraid to possibly fall back should our initial attacks fail. If we fail to defeat the Celts in one battle, we can inflict heavy casualties on them before falling back and attacking again

A philosopher once said if you outnumber the enemy army 2:1, split your army into two. If you are equal in size, you may fight them. However I am not sure if this would be the case. And what of the possibility of an ambush that would cripple our efforts? I know I am no military strategist, but I would have both legions travel to the first province, capture it, retrain, and then send off one of them to capture the other province.

/Bean\

01-01-2009, 06:32

Personally, i would suggest using one arm to capture Bononia, and use the remaining full units from that attack, and merge them with the second legion to attack Segesta

everyone

01-01-2009, 06:36

Legatus Cotta, it is sure that you do not analyse the situation, one legion of ours is far weaker than the garrison of either Bononia or Segesta; however two legions combined would be greater than the garrison of either of the cities. Tribunus Appivs' suggestion sounds more feasible, if two legions work together to take out two disunited foes, it would be much easier and would reduce the total number of casualties

(OOC: the armies of Bononia and Segesta individually are too large for one legion to take on, save attack a settlement (you know how siege battles are like, 10% of our troops die because of lousy maneuvering even in a clear victory); we concentrate two legions to dispatch one city first, then take out the other after retraining the two legions

Potocello

01-01-2009, 07:40

Tribvnvs Servivs Longvs stands to voice his opinion, addressing Legatvs Cotta he says

"Senator, as the Consul stated, it is not worth it to attack one city with one legion and have it be destroyed when we could just as well send two legions to destroy it and take minimal casualties. There is no point in risking the defeat of one of these legions. You said, "If we fail to defeat the Celts in one battle, we can inflict heavy casualties on them before falling back and attacking again." But why wouldn't we just send the two legions after one city and not risk the massive casualties which would result in more spending and more time to rebuild these legions. With all due respect to Legatvs Cotta and the Dictator, i think it would be just foolish to send one army to fight these brutes alone."

Servivs glances at the Consul and sits, waiting for the replies of his fellow senators.

YouHaveRecieved

01-01-2009, 13:36

Why should we wait to attack?

Why not starve them out?

I'm sure our supply lines would hold for a year or so, and you know what would happen to Celts if they get hungry. They will rush out the gates in an unorganized manner and Roman tactics will win the day. Unless we prefer the other options.

SwissBarbar

01-01-2009, 14:17

I say we crush them by superior force, no risk. You speak of soldiers and retrainig as if they were chessmen. But these soldiers are Romans! Though they are not of high rank, they still are our brothers. Do not lead them into massacre and say "we have enough of them, we'll attack again if we lose in the first place". We don't lose! Roman discipline is great, but its founded on intelligent strategical desicions, and not on leading men into battle and hope they kill enough enemies until they get slaughtered, so the next army may win! One single dead roman is already too much to give to those filthy, smelly naked barbarian in the north, though I know, that a very hard fight is about to happen! If we lose, this will be an invitation to all Barbarians to invade our territories because they see, that we can be beaten. The Carthagians will laugh at us, the Greeks may invade too and many other nations could come to the conclusion, that roman power is to be challenged. Let us make an example once and for all.

YouHaveRecieved

01-01-2009, 14:49

As I said, why need superior numbers when we can easily crush them if we wait for them to sally out of their strongholds. They will be hungry and angry. They will heed no orders and flanking will be easy and at a whim. I give them a year, two at most before they come, less if they are confident. We then just use manoeverabilty to outwit the fools. I differ from you greatly Noble Mamercus. I think the loss of two whole legions is satisfactory for the greater good of the Republic. Would you die watching the Republic fall or watching it flourish?

everyone

01-01-2009, 14:59

The crowd jeers

Asina rises to address Titvs

"Titvs Valerivs Maximvs, I'm afraid what you meant by 'the loss of two whole legions is satisfactory for the greater good of the Republic' is horribly impossible; might I remind you that those two legions are the only legions that we could currently muster, and if they were to be lost, the garrisons of our lands would be vulnerable to an invasion from either direction.

Even if we do not get invaded, rebuilding those two legions would probably take until the next congressional session, which by then things are going to change.

Also, our armies could not maintain a siege for that long, the furthest we can wait is a year before our supplies run low and there are threats of mutiny; and even Bononia would need around 5 seasons before they run out of supplies.

However, I am confident that if they are to sally, we could crush them with our superior strategy and tactics; they have no obstructions to aid them; we just need to get a good reason for them to sally forth."

Ibn-Khaldun

01-01-2009, 15:20

Quintus rises..

I agree with Asina. We can not risk with losing those two legions. And one legion can not win the garrisons of those barbarian villages.

Legio I Apulia (Standard Legion)
1 principes (82 men, full strength)
2 equites romani (50 men each, full strength)
3 Hastati (82 men each, full strength)
2 Accensi (60 men each, full strength)

Is this the legion you want to use against barbarians??

Quintus laughs..

A bunch of poor Hastati and Accensi against bloodthirsty and trained barbarians??
This is a massacre and nothing else!!!

Quintus takes his seat..

YouHaveRecieved

01-01-2009, 15:21

I said the loss of two legions, not the two Legions we have. Five seasons is little over a year and I am sure our commanders keep enough disipline in the Legions to see that they last that long.
Titus smirks at his last sentance.
Do you not believe that you could cope with the stress and bring your troops to win. Of course, I belive and the plebs as well ought to believe. Yes, I still hold true to my statement. If one of fine Generals were to lose your Legions or, by Hades, lose your life but manage to capture the settlement. I'm sure I would be grieving, but that you did your duty to the Republic.

everyone

01-01-2009, 15:31

the crowd continues jeering

"Titvs, it is not a matter of discipline, rather it is a matter of logistics; would supplies be able to reach us? would it reach us on time? there are a myriad of problems in logistics.
Also, isn't 'the loss of two legions' the same as 'the loss of two legions we have'? two legions are all we have, together with some levies and militia"

Ibn-Khaldun

01-01-2009, 15:32

Then you don't mind being the first one to enter one of those settlements and clear the gates to the rest of the men, right?

YouHaveRecieved

01-01-2009, 15:40

Me?

If course I do. But of course I ask if any Legion would have me but do I get a reply? Nay, I don't. The loss of two we have is different to two Legions. Like I said before. There is no reason. We must first get a navy and then build our infastructure to support more Legions and then move to conquer island settlements.

Back to the original question. Yes of I would eagerly go into the battle at the gates but I would not want a battle at the gates but of course outside the walls when they sally forth.

SwissBarbar

01-01-2009, 16:40

Led by the right man, those 2 legions can achieve much

YouHaveRecieved

01-01-2009, 16:48

Ah, but led by the right man any Legion can do much. I don't see how that phrase contributes at all to the argument.

SwissBarbar

01-01-2009, 16:54

I adressed Quintus, who spoke of our "poor" Hastati. In my opinion these poor Hastati can beat those wild and trained men, if they are lead by the right man - whoever this is - and of course if they are not led into massacre beeing outnumbered by the enemy. We need to send two legions northwards.

And you Titvs Valerivs , of which islands did you speak?

YouHaveRecieved

01-01-2009, 17:01

Ah, I totally agree with you there Aulus Aemilius. Our men are much better than what most people think, for we have several advantages. The islands I speak of are the Beleares, Korsim and Sardin. Now I realise that Carthage has control of these islands but at the moment they are difying us by owning them. Korsim and Sardim are ill defended and could be easily taken and I'm sure our noble diplomats could bring the peace back. I believe this way we could maximise massive profits, especially from Beleares. If not then we could send an expeditionary force to Krete to establish some relations down there.

navarro951

01-01-2009, 17:21

Heres Blasio rises...

"It is my belief that if Consul Asina and Legatus Cotta choose to work together in their objectives and take each city together, then they are very much allowed to do so. The orders are simple though, both cities will be taken before any major campaign ,whether it be against barbarians or sicilia, is launched.

Also Quintus raised a valid point about two things. First, while are legions are tough men they are few. This leads us to the taxes. We can easily raise taxes without angering people and could have another legion in addition to our two.

The taxes will be raised before the end of this year, and im sure our new consuls will get straight to finishing up the training of Legio II Latium. "

Blasio seats himself...

OOC: The only reason I am un-supportive of a war with Carthage or the Guals, is simply historical reason. We wont see the first Punic War till 264. And the Guals may possibly be our enemy as soon as we take Bononia and Segesta.

/Bean\

01-01-2009, 17:27

Cotta rises from his seat where he has sat listening to the arguments in rising agitation, a slight look of relief visible on his features

Good Senators, the Heres has spoken. Let this go no further. I beseech Consul Asina to agree with me that we will follow the Heres overall strategy, sending both legions to the north, and tackling each tribe one at a time. Let us make this final, gentlemen.

Consul?

navarro951

01-02-2009, 01:04

Senators, the Congressional Council will be closing at 20:00 Pacific Time today if there is no new legislation being proposed at that time. Anything new anyone would like to discuss or add do so now.

navarro951

01-02-2009, 05:10

"This Congressional Session is now closed. All legislation presentation has ended and the floor is now open for routine discussion. 48 hours will be allotted for voting!"

everyone

01-02-2009, 13:16

Asina seemed to be in a daze,
his retainer prods him

"Ah yes, Legatus Cotta; both the legions under our command shall co-operate and capture the cities together; I shall be informing you of my strategy soon"

(OOC: in other words, I'm going to play out a test-battle to capture each city with the armies we are about to have)

SwissBarbar

01-02-2009, 13:23

Senatores, is there place in any Army for me and my retinue? Aemilivs asked I'd like to fight those barbarians too and prove my quality as a true roman.

navarro951

01-03-2009, 09:02

Heres Blasio steps into the chamber with a hardened look on his face...

"Good men, I have just received reports that the very distant Kingdom of Pontos has announced a declaration of war against our own enemy, the vile Epirotes. I believe, it is time to gain a new friend and lose an old enemy.

I propose a diplomat be sent, on what will be a marathon of a travel, to meet the Pontic king and build up some sort of friendship. If an alliance can be made we will have the ability to attack our enemy from both sides.

Sooner or later, we will have to cross the Adriatic and cut our enemies throat in their own homeland. I say the time may not be now...but soon! Very near in time we will have two legions of finely trained Roman legionaries and they will get a true taste of training when they take the independent regions set by our recent edicts.

Let the floor be open for debate on this topic, I hope all true men of this senate are as thirsty for Epirote blood as I!"

Blasio then eyes the room for the first speaker

everyone

01-03-2009, 09:46

"Though I may wish to see all of the republic's enemies crushed by our legions, I'm afraid that an alliance with the kingdom of Pontus wouldn't help us currently; the lands under the dominion of their king are little, they only encompass a small section of Asia Minor; there is probably little either of us can do to help each other, except giving financial aid of some sort because as of now, our interests are focused in our immediate surroundings: Cisalpine Gaul and Sicilia.

However for long-term benefit, perhaps I would agree with your proposal; we may require their aid in the near future, as by then the Pontic King may have already grown to a sizable kingdom that could properly challenge the Epirote advance to the east."

Mooks

01-03-2009, 19:42

Has anyone considered sending a diplomat to open trading ties to the factions of the east? The far off Egyptians, selecuids, and even the Macedonians dont have trading contracts with our merchants (correct me if im wrong). While the barbarians might not be friendly, their gold might.

Also, I propose a peace be made with the Epirotes if we are not planning to invade the Illyrian coast. Then a trading contract be made. War with the Epirotes serves no purpose to Rome if it merely lessens our coffers and angers our merchants.

YouHaveRecieved

01-03-2009, 19:45

Yes but do we want to provoke war with the Carthaginians. They have kept a fickle peace treaty with us for the single reason the Pyrrus survives.

/Bean\

01-03-2009, 19:58

Cotta enters the chambers

Forgive me for not attending at an earlier date, Senators. Business of overseeing the Legio II Lativm has kept me occupied.

May I welcome the young Decimvs Cornelivs Scipio to the Senate. I hope you are now familiar with the rules we live by and will abide to them.

However, I must answer the new Senator's last speech with a question. Were you there, Scipio? Did you face the hordes of the Epirites; the Molossian King that invaded our land; the Illyrians, Greeks, Tarentines, Italians, and humangous beasts he called forth with a simple wave of his hand? My father was, Senator. He fought the Molossian at Heraclea, and met his end on the fields of Asculum. He was a brave man and a good soldier. He would never have agreed to sign a peace treaty with an enemy that had invaded, pillaged and killed many good men, women and children under the protection of Roma, to then retreat and abandon those he had come to aid. I plea the Senate to not sign a peace treaty with these scum from Greece; Roma will repay old debts in the future. For now let them huddle behind the protection of the sea and their navy.

As to the Senator's other proposal, I do agree. Maybe we should send out merchants and diplomats to secure trade routes with far off kingdoms. Only good and riches can come out of it. Better relations, sharing of resources and contact with ancient civilisations await, gentlemen. I am open to debate, but would like to remind you that this is for the good of the Republic, and the rich men of Roma as much as the mob.

Cotta takes his seat, awaiting a reply from the Senate

SwissBarbar

01-03-2009, 20:08

"Roma did never cloister itself, why should it now? I agree, we should establish trade routes to foreign Kingdoms beyond Neptunus' sea. I could not come up with an counter-argument, not by any stretch of the imagination." With that Avlvs seats himself.

Mooks

01-03-2009, 20:09

/Bean\

01-03-2009, 20:14

Quite angrily, Cotta retaliates

Have you no honour, Scipio? These men invaded, pillaged and burned our country. They were beaten back through the courage, sacrifice and lives our grand armies. Now, you wish you offer them a choice to recuperate, to replenish their coffers with Roman gold? I swear, on my father's name, that Rome shall not fund her enemies. I have no wish to abandon our direction to the north; Epirus will wait. But while it waits, I refuse to take part in it's recovery.

With that, Cotta sat, silently daring the young Tribune to challange him further.

YouHaveRecieved

01-03-2009, 20:14

Wait, you say war with Carthage is more likely than war with Epriotes? Let me remind you that Carthage are our allies and imagine our standing with them. They wouldn't be very happy that we had submitted to Epirus and we now getting trade and money from them. This could possibly provoke war from the South. Also imagine the humility. We noble Romans not only recieving but giving money to Epirus. The only way I would even think to allow it in my mind is by asking them to offer us a regular tribute of 300 mnai a season.

Mooks

01-03-2009, 20:17

/Bean\

01-03-2009, 20:18

Cotta stands before any other senators get a chance. (Edit:Damn, not fast enough :clown:)

I second this proposal. The Epirites are beaten, withdrawn. As the victors, we have the right to demand reperations from those who have been beaten. I ask the Dictator to consider demanding reparations from our defeated foes.

YouHaveRecieved

01-03-2009, 20:21

Whilst we send a Diplomat oer the Aegean we could get trade rights with nations such as Macedon, Selucids, Ptolimics and the Free Greek City States. This would up our naval trade a plenty and would force the Epirites onto the backfoot because I believe they are currently at war with Macedon. Correct me if I am wrong.

/Bean\

01-03-2009, 20:26

YouHaveRecieved

01-03-2009, 20:35

Yes I believe so. I also believe that we can send our spy on Sardin when we have a navy to the islands around the Magna Greaca as I believe they are very profitable.

Mooks

01-03-2009, 20:36

According to the Reports, Epirus is still at war in Greece with it's rivals; however the Arche Seleukeia have offered and accepted a ceasefire with them some years ago.

I also believe we should send diplomats across the Mediterrainian to Iberia; it is a rich land with many valuable resources.

Until we gain cities close to Iberia (Conquests in and around Massila) I doubt any benefit will come from Iberia. They are savages and are more likely to loot our merchants than trade. Perhaps when there is a dominant tribe willing to trade, the sending of a diplomat will make more sense. You should consider the cost of maintaining a diplomat for that long.

Unless,again, by diplomats you mean a small army.

YouHaveRecieved

01-03-2009, 20:39

I believe Carthage is also struggling to contain the bigger tribes over there. Maybe we should stick to the East untill the penensulia is taken.

Mooks

01-03-2009, 21:17

Since we are in no position to attack the Epirotes, who is in favor of blockading their ports? Even if we sign contracts with the Greek federation and Macedonians, we can do even more by stopping them from trading with our enemies, and trading with us. I do realize how dangerous the Seas are and the cost of the navy, but I think it will be worth it.

Decimvs Cornelivs Scipio takes his seat.

YouHaveRecieved

01-03-2009, 21:23

We have hardly enough money to mantain an army let alone a navy. Also we don't have many if at all miltary ports to build ships whilst the Epirote navy is expierianced and tough. I think that blockading anyones ports is completely worthless.

SwissBarbar

01-03-2009, 21:25

I say, let us first unify Italy, and THEN decide, which way to go

Mjolnir

01-03-2009, 21:29

I believe that the current conversion may be putting the cart before the horse, we have not even secured Italia and we are discussing Greece and Iberia? Let us turn our attention to the matter at hand, once everything from Rhegion and Taras to the Alps are ours we can discuss hence to turn next.

Also, a navy would break our coffers at this point.

Il_Duce

01-04-2009, 01:50

[I]Cotta stands before any other senators get a chance.

I second this proposal. The Epirites are beaten, withdrawn. As the victors, we have the right to demand reperations from those who have been beaten. I ask the Dictator to consider demanding reparations from our defeated foes.

I agree with Legatus Cotta. Although trade rights with the Epirotes would certainly thicken our coin purses, it would be a very unwise move diplomatically. Why not simply take the money from them like the children they are. They are beaten and battered and I believe the idiot general no longer wishes to take on the whole world. If the Roman legions march on him he knows it will be his demise.

Excuse me now, as I must take off to II Legio Latium-- a personal servant shall serve as my scribe and letter carrier.

YouHaveRecieved

01-04-2009, 02:05

Ah, to endure the interview tent with Legatus Cotta. I wish you luck!

navarro951

01-04-2009, 05:14

Dictator Dentatvs rises...

"I am now announcing that Legatus Lucius Cornelius Scipio will be made Aedile of Taras."

Potocello

01-04-2009, 05:22

Servivs rises

"Congradulations Legatus Scipio"

Servivs smiles at Scipio and sits

Mooks

01-04-2009, 06:56

edit : nvm

SwissBarbar

01-04-2009, 10:56

"Also accept my best wishes, Legatus Lucius Cornelius Scipio"

/Bean\

01-04-2009, 16:20

If only we could find him...then we could congratulate him

OOC: haha Mooks had to check his first name to make sure it wasn't him :laugh4:

SwissBarbar

01-04-2009, 17:11

He can read the report later on, then he'll see who has congratulated him *laughs*

everyone

01-05-2009, 13:45

A man walks into the Curia

"I bear a message from Consul Asina, he is currently unable to come here in person as he is too busy in the Campus Martius settling some issues:"

he pulls a scroll out from under his tunic

"Dear Senatores;
as the messenger I sent has probably told you, I am currently occupied with some problems to settle regarding the Legions and the attack on Aemilia and Liguria; however I have heard the news from one of my junior officers that some madman from Liguria have recently challenged the might of our Legions, claiming that the confederation of Ligurian tribes are superior to our legions.
As you all are probably thinking that the Ligurians and their city of Segesta should be captured in a display of our military might; however I have to apologise that I had initially planned and attack on the city of Bononia first, before moving on to Segesta; and am going to inform Legatus Cotta to coordinate the 2 Legion's movements to both besiege Bononia; therefore I unfortunately inform you that an attack on Segesta would have to be delayed by a year.
Meanwhile, I would like to congratulate Aedile L.C. Scipio on his recent promotion.
Consul Asina"

/Bean\

01-05-2009, 20:37

Cotta, who fits a trip to the Senate daily through his current busy routine, stands.

Messenger, relay this response to your master:

I agree the Consul. We should not respond to this drunken madman; our honour is not offended. We have proven to Italia, and to the world even, the might of our armies. We do not need to blindly charge into this potential catastrophe after so many weeks of hard planning. We will attack the city of Bononia first. Then, once we have concolidated our gain there, we shall respond to these insults at full strength.

To the consul, I agree. We shall procede with our initial plan; Legio II Latium will move out first and gain support for the attack on their way north. Legio I Apulia will set out a week after, and the two legions shall surround and conquer the enemy in a two pronged attack through their territory, quashing any resitance.

SwissBarbar

01-06-2009, 13:29

Congratulations to Titvs Valerivs Maximvs and Appivs Clavdivs Nero for their election to the Legio II. Though I am a bit disappionted, as you surely can understand, I dare to hope, that there soon will be another chance for me and my cousin too. Until that day, my Field-Chirurgeon shall serve the citizens of Roma and, as a sign of friendship, my Armourer will be at free disposal to Legatvs Cotta if needed, as long as I don't need his services myself.

/Bean\

01-06-2009, 16:43

I thank Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs for his good sportsmanship and congratulations to the new Tribunes. I dearly thank him also for the borrowed services of his staff. I extend this also to his cousin Caivs, who regretably also did not make it into the Legio II Latium. I wish them the best of luck for future postings.

Senators, I shall now leave to catch up to the Legion. We will return to better last weeks parade through Rome's streets, in triumph, be that within the month of in ten years time.

Cotta nods to Aemilii, before turning sharply on his heel and exiting the Curia.

Il_Duce

01-06-2009, 21:57

Congratulations to Titvs Valerivs Maximvs and Appivs Clavdivs Nero for their election to the Legio II. Though I am a bit disappionted, as you surely can understand, I dare to hope, that there soon will be another chance for me and my cousin too.

Thank you for your kind words, friend. Just remember-- Glory comes to the patient.

I must now travel to the Legion and begin work. I shall have my personal assistant sit in for me as a scribe and message reader. I can only hope I will bring glory to Roma, and all of you here in the Senate.

Ibn-Khaldun

01-10-2009, 01:19

Quintus rises..

So I heard that Bononia fell. I hope our Consul sacked it well because we need money! Better yet.. I hope he enslaved their population!

So.. What was the fate of the people of Bononia??

everyone

01-10-2009, 01:26

Asina, smelling of a strange mix of blood, sweat and horse, entered the Curia.
he was grinning.

"Tribunus Quintus, initially, I meant to just occupy Bononia as their people cooperated so well and let our soldiers crush theirs under our sandals; however they were not very cooperative when I declared it captured by the Republic; so I had to expel those people who were causing trouble.
anyway, our income this season would see a great increase from the previous few; the increase in trade and the small-scale looting of Bononia has gave us a substantial amount of money"

Asina proceeds to ask his assistant who had been at his seat for the past season on what happened when he was away

navarro951

01-10-2009, 02:57

The Heres walks in...

"Well done Consul Asina, not only have you earned the Republic a new city, but you have earned the the new rank of Quaestor. You may choose 2 new bodyguard units when they are available in the Aemilia region. You are a good Consul and will indeed make a fine Quaestor. Stand and be recognized."

Asian receives a standing ovation!

Blasio quiets the Curia down...

"As for Pvblibs Regvlvs, he has served well in Legio I Apulia and has earned the rank of Legatus. A legion will be prepared for him as soon as the resources allow for it. Until then he may continue to serve with Consul Asina and Legio I Apulia or go wherever he wills."

A quick applause is made for Legatus Regvlvs

"And finally, Consul Asina, you will need to select a new Tribune. Legatus Regvlvs will now serve with you, respectfully, but no longer under you. His post will be changed to a new Legion as soon as it is created. So to all Tribuni of Roma, declare your application!"

"And lastly the Dictator wishes to grant the Provincial Dictatorship of his legio's hailing region, Apulia. Know full well your duties as a Provincial Dictator and govern your region well Consul."

everyone

01-10-2009, 04:33

(OOC: I already PM'ed navarro the details and other stuffs)

Asina, still dressed in military attire but reeking of the aforementioned smell, turns from his assistant

"I thank you Heres for granting me dictatorship over Apulia, I shall govern the region well and work towards making our Republic more mighty"

Asina's assistant passes a piece of parchment to him

"and I declare that Tribu- I mean Legatus Regulus has completed his training under Legio I Apulia and has served well, he shall make an excellent officer; I would also like to thank Legatus Cotta and Legio II for aiding Legio I in taking Bononia, I think Legatus Cotta should also be credited with the taking of Bononia."

partially smiling from something that just struck his mind; Asina continued

"and it seems we still have another region to capture before Italia is united; I shall use the resources from the newly-granted provincial dictatorship to aid us (OOC: the provincial legion can be used on campaigns as long as a general leads it right? since I don't think it would be very productive if we just leave it sitting around in Apulia)"

he whispers something to his assistant and passed to him another piece of parchment with something scrawled on it;

"Now I shall head over to the Campvs Martivs to notify the Tribuni; good day all"

after Asina left, his assistant then fixed his eyes on the illegibly-written words and attempts to figure out what is written on it

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-10-2009, 06:35

Stepping out of the way at the last minute to avoid being knocked to the ground by a swift moving and well-decorated commander, a well-dressed young man looks about the chambers of the Curia. He notices a clerk furiously studying a note handed him by the commander that just left and quietly whispers something to him. The clerk absent-mindedly points in the general direction of several toga-clad senatores and mumbles something unintelligble, clearly absorbed with discerning the contents of the writ. Suddenly, a powerful voice erupts in the cavernous hall,

"Is that how you address a member of the Senate you slovenly oaf!? Stand up straight, look me in the eye when one of your social betters addresses you, and enunciate your syllables! Surely, you disgrace your master's house, now back to your station!"

The few senatores in the chambers discussing politics while not in session stare at the young man, neither showing amusement nor shock at such an outburst in this sacred venue. Several begin to speak in hushed tones while eyeing the self-declared member of the legislative body, unusually tanned in comparison to the people of the capitol. Unnerved by the penetrating gazes of these older, wiser, and more importantly richer, and more powerful men, the newly arrived presumptuous addition to the Senate breaks a small sweat while he adjusts his tunic and shifts his weight as he racks his brain to regain the lost footing he holds in these men's eyes. Solemnly he begins,

"Honored Senatores, I apologize for my outburst. I have grown accustomed to certain privileges and deferential treatment in my home of Taras. I beg you to forgive this offense toward my fellow man."

The well-dressed man, robust with youth, tinged with the ever-so-slight appearance of maturation, grasps the stunned clerk by the forearms and embraces him.

"Forgive me? Friend? I have wronged you in the eyes of others. I have wronged my family's honor. I have disgraced these hallowed halls."

Before the clerk can even begin to respond, the man releases his embrace and steps away to address the senatores in the Curia, unfurling the scroll from the ornately gilded case that has accompanied him on his long journey.

"I am Tiberius Claudius Marcellus of the newly enjoined city of Taras. I come bearing the litterae clausae issued me from this noble governing body, appointing me a member of the Senate, effective immediately, and granting myself and the male members of my family Roman citizenship as reward for my family's aid to Roma during the siege of my home. As you undoubtedly remember, your - our - spy received refuge during his reconnoitering of the city in my Father's house and was given cover as a laborer that he might travel unmolested throughout the lanes and plazas to discern the defenses. We of the gens Claudia have a history of always aiding others who are in need, and rightly so, are remembered fondly wherever we have lived.

I come to claim my rightful seat as a representative of Taras and its surrounding lands and vast, bountiful seas. We in the south have much to offer as a trade gateway to the Greek cities, the whole of Italia, even to our friends across the great sea on Sicilia and in Africa. We are honored to join Roma in her rightful rise to power and glory. Indeed, there is no better friend, and - as the people of my homeland learned - no worse enemy.

Fellow Senatores, I have travelled two long months with nary a rest to reach my new home. As is customary amongst your - forgive me, our - people, I shall offer my services to our military. I pray that I can be used in such a manner that is best suited to my strengths. Gentlemen, the hour is late and the lodging prepared for me is across the city, as I am told. I bid your leave, good Senatores. Roma victrix!"

Smiling smugly to himself, Tiberius turns about and marches confidently out the chamber doors. On his way past the clerk whom he insulted he maintains a stoic face, with his chin and nose held slightly higher than normal. Unnoticed perhaps by all but the still-confused clerk, his eyes check to make sure he has the clerk's attention and Tiberius makes an all but imperceptible grunt of annoyed supremacy.

/Bean\

01-10-2009, 09:10

A letter arrives from the front, sealed with the signature of Legatus Cotta...

Honourable Senators, I would first like to congratulate Pvblivs Atilivs Regvlvs on his promotion to Legatus; may the enemies of Rome tremble at our might!

I actually write to ask a favour of the senate and especially of Legatus Regvlvs. I ask that two men, Caivs Aemilivs Mamercvs and his cousin Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs be given the highest thought in the appointment to the legions. Since they failed to gain access to the legions on their first appointment, I ask sincerly that Legatus Regvlvs pay the highest attention to these two strong willed and patient Tribunes. After having been stuck in Rome for so long with little to do but wait until their appointment, I feel it would be highly unfair for those unaccustomed to our ways to gain their rightful places. Above all, I would owe Legatus Regvlvs a favour or two, should he ever wish to claim.

I leave it in your wise minds, Senators. How do you stand regarding these men?

Cotta sits, nodding at the two cousins across the chamber.

The Celtic Viking

01-10-2009, 18:36

Pvblivs stands up and raising his right arm, he beckons to speak.

"Thank you, Dentatvs, thank you Cotta and perhaps most of all I thank you, Asina. It has been an honour to serve under you as a Tribune.

As I said when I first spoke in the Curia, I am first and foremost a military man. I understand politics and deal with it as I may, but I have up until now paid minimal interest in it. However, as I understand it, we are now to conquer the last province and then we will be in firm control of Italia. But what then? Has that been decided yet? I would like to know what our plans for the close future is."

Pvblivs bows before he sits down again.

navarro951

01-10-2009, 22:14

Heres Blasio responds...

"In the future, our Dictator wishes to expand to to Venetia, another independent region. After which a new legion will be trained, Legio III. For now, that is all the Dictator will say as a new offensive plan is in the making to be unveiled at a later time."

SwissBarbar

01-10-2009, 22:46

I thank Legatus Cotta for his friendship and intercession. I will head now for the Campvs M. and declare my interest to join the Legion

navarro951

01-12-2009, 00:58

Heres Blasio Reports the Front...

"Good senators of Roma,

It is indeed a most tragic day in for the entire Republic. Our great Consul Asina, as fallen taking the life of the brute Conan of Segesta himself. The battle was a rigorous and bloody victory. Our legions attacked both sides and on Consul Asina's flank he was mortally wounded whilst personally cutting Conan's throat. Legatus Cotta was awarded the high honor of Corona Civica for dragging Consul Asina from the battle.

Our surgeons did all they could, but the Consul's wounds were too severe. I will return to Roma soon, filled with nothing but the utmost sadness.

All necessary promotions will be handed out soon.

Your Heres Electus, Blasio"

Mjolnir

01-12-2009, 02:29

Tribvnvs Caivs Aemilivs Mamercvs stands to address the Senate.

Surely this is both a day of joy and sorrow for our Republic. While our ever victorious legions have once again defeated the barbarians in the north and expanded our borders, Consul Asina the leader of our legions has fallen in glorious battle. The Aemilia family offers it sincerest condolences to the Asina family.

The Senator resumes his seat.

Il_Duce

01-12-2009, 03:24

A young man quickly walks into the room and hands a piece of parchment to the speaker for Senator and Tribune Appius Cladius Nero. He stands, clears his throat, and begins

Dear Senatores, a letter from the front:

"Fellow men of Rome, it is a bitter sweet day as you already know. Our glorious Legions have captured Segesta, but in the action we lost our greatest hero. I was of the first to arrive to his body in the battle, and I carried him upon my steed back to the surgeons. I was there when he took his last breath, and I was there when he crossed into the after life.

But today is not a day to mourn. Today is a day to celebrate-- to celebrate the grand life of our most beloved Imperator Asina. And it is a day to celebrate the coming of the age of Blasio. I have full confidence in his abilities to lead us through the every battle we may face, and I am positive that you all shall share my same feelings.

Cordially,
Tribunus Nero
Legio II"

Mooks

01-12-2009, 03:28

A noble roman dieing in battle against the barbarians. A very noble way to die, something for all romans to aspire too.

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-12-2009, 06:17

The young senator from Taras pales when he hears the news of the sudden and violent death. Surely the end cannot be so abrupt - and random? This man was a hero of Roma, surrounded by thousands of trained killers. Surely they should have protected him. Perhaps he failed to heed the auspices or had wronged the gods in some way. Yes, that must be why such a great man existed only in memory now. But......if such a fate could befall this great general, then surely it could befall anyone......even.......

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus stands up and speaks meekly at first, trying to find a voice and words to match that will fill the akward silence left by the grievous news and the cavernous hall. Several of the senatores glance over to appraise what is to be said.

"Senatores, all Rome and her various peoples feel this great loss. Verily, Latium has lost its finest son and brightest star. Though I cannot propose legislation while in session, I remind the Curia that we are not currently in session. Therefore, I do propose we honor Consul Asina's memory by levying extra taxes from the people who have committed this atrocity and additionally by denying them full equity within the Res Publica for a time of Ten years, afterwhich their debt shall have been forgiven. Let us also use the tribute of this new land to finance games for the people and a Triumphus for Consul Asina's legion who has been bloodied and away from home for several years.

By doing so, we set an example to enemy nations that the might of Roma is not to be denied. It is better to surrender to us without contest, lest we extract the price of our labor from their very homes, fields, and commerce. Yet, we may also win the hearts of the timid amongst our foes by showing the people of Segesta clemency once their debt has been repaid. In this way we may convince the Barbaroi that there is no better friend, and no worse enemy than Roma."

Tiberius finishes his brief speech in a strong and confident tone, one suggesting to the cleverly tuned ears of the senior politicians that this man has the heart, if not the experience, to lead the way in times of trouble.

The Celtic Viking

01-12-2009, 20:09

With his helmet in his hand, Pvblivs Atilivs Regvlvs stands up.

"It is a great loss indeed. As I fought as his second-in-command, I learned much from him about commanding an army, and he was always a friend and a true Roman. But even I say we must move on, and with no repercussions against the conquered people. We have won and should assimilate them into our rule as soon as we can, not make them view us as tyrants. Willing obedience beats forced obedience.

Though I have temporarily taken command over it now with his death, I would ask to know who the new commander of Legio I Apulia will be."

Mooks

01-12-2009, 20:40

With his helmet in his hand, Pvblivs Atilivs Regvlvs stands up.

"It is a great loss indeed. As I fought as his second-in-command, I learned much from him about commanding an army, and he was always a friend and a true Roman. But even I say we must move on, and with no repercussions against the conquered people. We have won and should assimilate them into our rule as soon as we can, not make them view us as tyrants. Willing obedience beats forced obedience.

May I ask who will be the new commander of Legio I Apulia?"

I agree with this sentiment entirely. And also nominate Pvblivs Atilivs Regvlvs as the commander of Legion I Apulia. He already knows the troops, and what it takes to lead the army. I have complete confidence in his abilities as a commander of Rome.

/Bean\

01-12-2009, 20:55

The doors to the Curia swing open, but the Senators are chatting away and do not initially notice the figure walking into the Senate Hall. The tapping of his military boots on the marble floor echoes around throughout the space, and the chatting turns to whispers, as Senators turn to stare at the new arrival. Legatus Cotta enters the hall, in clean military dress adorned with tall helmet. His face gives nothing away, as his gaze sweeps the stands. As he reaches the centre, all talking stops, as the Senators wait for the Legate to speak.

Good morning, Gentlemen. How fares today's discussions?

A portly senator stands, a look of anger upon his face.

"Ah Legate, nice of you to join us at last. We were just mourning our dead consul, if you hadn't noticed during your relaxing day!"

Cotta looks at him, with a kind of detached weariness.

Horatius, in case you did not know, I was there when the Consul was killed, thank you very much. I dragged him from the battlefield myself. I have said all I wish to say to him, to his family and his clients. I have nothing to further to say. Mourned I have, believe me not at the cost of your own respect. A fine man, a great man, has died, leaving our Republic once more weaker than it should be.

But we gain nothing from mourning. Further action, retaliation, and less dileberation is what we require at this time. Senators, I do not dishonour the memory of the man that was, when I say we must for now forget about when he was alive, and we must ourselves live up to the fact that he is dead and that is that. Our republic stands daily on the brink of destruction. One decisive move by any single one of our innumerbale enemies, and we are crushed. Consul Asina, had one of us many Senators have died, would unlikely have sat around wishing they were still alive until something so drastic forced him from his slumber. I have returned to Rome to make sure this does not happen.

Segesta is captured, but Liguria is not. It will require many more battles, a constant show of force and the occupation of the country for several more months before we can even think about leaving them be. In my absense and Consul Asina's recent death, the legions have been left in temporary command of the highest ranking tribune, Pvblivs Atilivs Regvlvs. I trust his judgement and command ability. Be in no doubt that our recent exploits of the north have improved our position not only in Italia, but in the Mediterrainian. We are, and should remain, a force to be reckoned with. However, we are still new to the board game. We face invasion from every corner. The Greeks, ever hungry for conquest, still lie in their mountainous homeland. I admit, they fight constantly amongst themselves, no single party gaining the upper hand. But invasion from Greece has occured before; it can happen again.

To the south lies Sicily; the home of evil tyrants and ambitious empires. Syracuse, Carthage. All would not weep at Rome's fall. We called an alliance with the son's of Dido over the Molosson threat. That threat is extinquished; how long can the pact last?

And fianlly to the north, the Gauls watch and wait, like patient wolves eyeing a flock of lambs. Expanded north, we may have done. However, we have no northern border. The Celtic hordes have many a time before swept down the spine of Italia, burning and pillaging whatever pleased them. It could reoccur at any time. We must establish our authority. With exhausted armies and depleted strength, a complete conquest up to the Alps is, for the moment, unrealistic. However, the wide banks of the Po River offer a stong natural barrier against the blond giants. Let us guard this border, lest we again face another invasion.

Senators, the time for mourning is over. There is much to discuss. The Legio I Apullia lacks a commander. My two Tribunes are ready to face the Legatus' trials. We lack a second Consul. All must be addressed, and quickly. I leave it in your hands, gentlemen.

navarro951

01-13-2009, 00:08

The Dictator Speaks...

"Legatus Pvblivs Atilivs Regvlvs is now the commander of Legio I Apulia...and all new promotions have been documented in the library."

Potocello

01-13-2009, 00:10

Servivs Longvs stands, weary, tired , and demorilised from the loss of his brave and noble commander.

"Senators, what Legatvs Cotta says is true, we must move on and honor the death of Consul Asina by ensuring that our victories in the North were not a waste. We must fortify those cities soon, or the barbarians will use the death of one of our commanders to their advantage. We must show them that we Romani are strong.

Hear these words, senators, and let us act quickly and send heavy reinforcements to the North. We must keep those cities...we must keep them for Consul Asina...

Servivs sits and hangs his head slightly. His beaten morale causes him to slouch, he will continue to mourn Asina.

SwissBarbar

01-13-2009, 09:53

I agree. Let us prepare and march!

The Celtic Viking

01-13-2009, 11:10

"Thank you, Dentatvs! It is an honour to replace Asina, and I will make sure not to disappoint you."

Pvblivs bows.

everyone

01-13-2009, 12:00

A man, shaven, stern, yet having a morose expression on his face, dressed in military attire enters the Curia.

"Ave Senatores! I am Manivs Clavdivs Cicero, I have recently rode a long distance from Segesta down to Roma to express my gratitude to our noble Heres Blasio for sponsoring me into senatorship (OOC: I'm not sure what's the phrase to use here, so this might sound rather weird); also, as a close friend to the late Consul Asina-

Cicero's facial expressions twitches as he says "late consul" and gulps before saying "Asina"

-I have been trusted by him to publish the last of his documents to the senatorial library (OOC: the stories in the stories thread and some other related things)"

Cicero hands a medium-sized stack of parchments over to a magistrate; on those notes were the instantly-recognisable yet totally illegible handwriting of Consul Asina

Cicero then turned to Legatus Publius

"Legatus, you may or may not recall me but I had served as a minor officer, one of those in charge of drilling the men, in Legio I Apulia. and I wish to enlist in Legio I Apulia as a Tribunus, the choice to accept is yours, I just wish to honour Consul Asina."

(OOC: though Navarro hasn't confirmed Cicero's rank, I'm assuming it to be Tribunus (which it most likely would be)

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-13-2009, 22:33

Senator Tiberius Claudius Marcellus emerged from one of the alcoves designated for the keeping of the Senatorial library, arms piled with several scrolls and a small book, and placed them down at a desk. A housekeeper of the Curia scurried forward with a burning wick to ignite the lamps where the Senator would be reviewing the legal documents.

Curosry glances of the scrolls reveaeld nothing of interest. He knew they wouldn't but one could never be too careful when searching for information. Father had taught him that often enough the most important of things could be hidden in the most obscure or unassuming of places. More than once father had been right. This time, however, the scrolls being examined contained only supply lists for the Legions that until recently had been "liberating" provinces and towns for the Res Publica. A laundry list of everything from barrels of water to bushels of grain to ingots of iron for the blacksmiths. The sheer magnitude of supplies needed boggled the mind. It was inconceivable that so many people could be coordinated to supply these items from all over Italia and be convinced to sell them to the military. Yet, Segesta was the lastest testament that supply these items they did, and according to the records at quite the profit too.

Tiberius pushed the scrolls aside and motioned to a clerk that they were ready to be replaced in the alcoves. The elderly man silently glided up and caressed each scroll as he would a newborn babe. These parchments were this man's life. Tiberius reminded himself to show respect for them. Opening the small book he had almost overlooked on the shelves, Tiberius flipped through the pages until he came to the current accounting of Tribunes being accepted to the new legions. Passed up again!

Tiberius was livid. How dare they pass him up for men of lesser age and standing. While his own standing was still that of plebeius, he was moving up in the world - or at least trying too. Then the wave of realization suddenly hit, overwhelming Tiberius to the point of near regurgitation: The Romani were plotting against him because of his Hellenic upbringing. They wouldn't even consider him for a post unless it was in some backwater province keeping the rocks and the fields in line. They did not trust him.

Calming himself, Tiberius gently closed the book and walked to the alcove to place it back on the shelves. The custodian wrung his hands and figeted nervously, too wary to ask the Senator to allow him to do it himself; but unwilling to trust someone else to handle his charges alone. Tiberius smiled at the elderly man and walked out of the chambers. These Romaoi would learn that Tribunus Tiberius Claudius Marcellus was no man to dangle a carrot in front of and then refuse to let him have even a nibble. No sooner than was the senator out of sight then the arthritic custodian of the Curia quickly glided into the alcove making slight adjustments here, and a finger swipe at the dust there. Senators were such clumsy folk. They had no attention to detail.

navarro951

01-14-2009, 00:23

The Dictator stands and after a loud cough he speaks...

"I know their has been a lot of confusion after the death of Consul Asina. No man in this Curia looked to him with the utmost respect than I. His passing is the price we pay for a greater Rome.

So, as my servants tell me my condition is worsening, I must quickly get down to business. Legatus Cotta will continue to command Legio II Latium. Legatus Regvlvs will have the honor of commanding Consul Asina's mighty Legio I Apulia. I know young Regvlvs will gain victories in honor of his former commander."

Dentatvs clears his throat...

"As for all new legates at the end of this year, if the Gods allow me to live to then, I will commission one new legion one of you may command. If Denarii, which does not grow off our trees, permits it I may even commission a second. For now all legates are free to study in one of our schools, or serve with any legion. (OOC: They are not tribunus' and will not count as 2nd or 3rd in commands. They are their simply to be part of the RP stories, be part of the action, or maybe get lucky and take command in the absence of a player in real-life. So yes a legion can have as many legates as it wants, but they do not directly report to anyone in it.)

All tribuni who do not already have a command post given to them, must wait till the Congressional Council to gain one in the newly commissioned legions. I suggest you also continue your schooling as education will one day make for a fine commander."

With a harsh cough the Dictator seats himself and sips some water...

navarro951

01-14-2009, 00:27

Heres Blasio's message from Segesta to the Curia

"I have here read reports from our military advisers. My orders after taking these into consideration:

1st I will be returning to Roma. Legatus Cotta is still in command of Legio II.

2nd All legions will be retrained and march for the last independent state near us, Patavium.

That is all"

Potocello

01-14-2009, 05:11

"Legatvs Cotta, would you mind if i serve with you in the Legio II Apulia? As a Legatvs myself, there would still be room for your 2nd and 3rd Tribunii, that is, if you'll have me. I would like to continue fighting and would be honored to fight with you again, this time in the same Legion."

Servivs smiles at Legatvs Cotta, waiting for a response.

/Bean\

01-14-2009, 08:56

Legatus Servivs, I would be honoured to have you join me in my legion. May our enemies quake in fear!

Warluster

01-14-2009, 09:32

A man, barely a man, stands from the sea of senator's and tribunes. He flattens out his robes and looks out into the ocean of waiting eyes. Nervousness attempts to strike him down but he stands, nothing but absolute calm on his face, so calm he appeared emotionless.

Senator's, Concul's and Dictator's, servants of Rome and the Senate! I stand here to announce my introduction into military service to Roma. I am Marcvs Clavdivs Marcellvs, I hope to serve well, and be enslaved to the name of Rome forever, and die fighting for Rome. his voice is strong, as cold as the expression on his face, but his eyes radiate a calming energy.
I have devoted the very exsistence of my life to fighting for Rome and the Dictator. If I must, I will die for the Dictator of Roma, even if that means falling upon my gladius, I would. Is there anyway I can possibly fight for the Dictator?

I also am saddened by Consul Asina's death. A loss of sucha influential figure in our Senate is truly horrible. I am sure his family was proud he died fighting for Rome, killing the enemy of Rome. Such a death is many of those who die constantly... they are jealous of such a death, the option of dieing for Rome.

As if to counter his sad words, not a trace of emotion touches his face, and he sits awkwardly as some of those around him wonder how such words of greiving could come from such a stone of emotion; none.

everyone

01-14-2009, 14:39

I shall remain in Roma until the next season for our Congressional session for now, unless Legatus Regulus requires my presence in Segesta.

(OOC: which means only Cicero would be staying in Roma until the congressional session, but the rest of his bodyguard are in Segesta)

Mooks

01-14-2009, 19:06

Deciumus Cornelius Scipio stands up.

I am happy to report to the senate that my proposal for sending a diplomat to the east is a complete success.

Foreign Affairs
Our diplomats have given trade rights and map information to the Arche Seleukeia for 200 Denarii in return. They have also given trade rights and map information to Pontos for their own map information. Our knowledge of the world has very much widened on our diplomats voyage.

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-14-2009, 22:43

"Indeed it is, Scipio. Accolades to you for your vision." Most of the Curia turn in their seats to see who is speaking. Tiberius Claudius Marcellus continues,

"My friends, fellow Romans, let us remember well the friendship we have in the Orient. Not only our immediate neighbors - to include the Epirote Hellenes - but also futher past. We would do well to cultivate the garden of friendship and equity that when we set our eyes upon the jewel of the Mediterranean that is Carthago we might call upon mighty allies to aid in the destruction of a mutual enemy.

"Surely, my fellow senatores, you agree that it would be most unwise to have enemies on all fronts. And also, though some would promote the Hellenes as our greater threat, one who appraises the situation carefully would quickly agree that it is Carthago who poses the greatest threat to our borders. Why, the very treaty we signed limiting ourselves from the straights of Messana is insulting to the will of the people of Roma! It is degrading in the manner in which it gives these dark-skinned foreigners rights to monopolize the economies and trade of lands on our doorstep. Verily, it is Carthago with whom we shall next clash arms whether we seek it or not. For, it is best to take the field of battle on our terms, than to play on the defensive while the mighty armies of Carthago ravage our countryside trying to eliminate us as the very threat as which we see them!"

Lowering his head in silent thought, Tiberius can hear the murmurring of the other Senatores considering what has been said. As the voices begin to quiet down, he seeks to tip the balance in favor of his proposal.

"A bad peace worse than war."

Tiberius takes his seat and tents his fingers, watching the flow of events.

navarro951

01-15-2009, 01:56

Heres Blasio enters the Curia with a sad look on his face.

"Good senators its good to be home. This year is one of tragedy and glory. I have received word that our Lady Favstina, Dictator Dentatavs' wife, has passed away in her sleep. So for the duration of this council, he will not be present and I will monitor this council. so....

I here by declare the third Congressional Council open! It will remain open for debate and legislation until January 16, 2009 at 5pm Pacific; at which point there will be 48 hours allotted for voting."

"I leave the floor open for debate and I will make my main proposals later. As for now I will only announce Edict 3.1: That the commissioning of Legio III Campania be proclaimed. And if Legatvs Servivs Sempronivs Longvs is willing...he may be given command of this Legio. Do you accept Legate Longvs?"

SwissBarbar

01-15-2009, 07:51

I'd second edict 3.1, we need the legion. Who's commander can be elected afterwards

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 09:16

I also second edict 3.1.

Senators, it is time to expand ourselves outside of Italia. The city of Massilia is well postioned, is rich and prosperous and has had dealings with us in the past. I propose EDICT 3.2-Extract an alliance from the city of Massilia. This would require an army to attack and install a Type 4 government. Roleplay:Dispensing of those against alliance with Rome

I would also like to express my immense condolences to the Dictator after the tragic loss of his wife. May the two of you meet again wonderfully in the distant future.

SwissBarbar

01-15-2009, 09:31

Very well proposal. Why should we leave Sicilia to those Carthagians? I also second your edict, Legatvs.

Warluster

01-15-2009, 09:54

Marcvs stands, a slight smile glancing throuigh the fog of his face

Legatvs Caivs, I hope in your expression of grief you do not wish death upon our great Dictator?

Marcvs face transform into a deep frown before settling back into a wall of no expression

A new Legion is very much needed, and it will be swift defense to our borders. I hope Longvs is up to the job, as one mistake up north can mean a swift end to this Senate.

With the forming of this new Legion I wonder when the Dictator will form his own legion, under his own personal command. I am sure iwth the Dictator's skills this Legion can be quite the herald to our enemies. May I ask our leader when he will form such a Legion? Or if we need a Edict for such a thing. I am sure other Senator's will agree with me that it is due time for a Imperial Legio.

I also wonder at what is our stance against the Celtic tribes of Gallica? Do we plan to massacre them like we have the others?

Marcvs looks briefly at the empty seat of the Dictator, then his eyes burrow when he looks at Blasio, wondering

Mooks

01-15-2009, 13:47

I 2nd the proposal on the attack on Sicily. Every year our ships get plundered by their raiders, and our people go hungry while they could have got fat on Sicilian grain.

Though if we are going to take Sicily we might as well pick up Sardinia and Corsica along with it. A tribune with 4 cohorts of normal legionnaire infantry should be enough to take both islands (maybe more for garrison).

Of course only after our northern borders are secured. Safety of Rome and the senate first.

everyone

01-15-2009, 13:50

Cicero rises, apparently seeming more positive than previously.

"If the soon to be recruited Legio III is to be used for defence or garrison duties, I would say that it is too small to be so. If you have read the intelligence reports from the library from a year ago, Gaulish hordes were reported to be rallying around Mediolanum, forming two large armies (OOC: 2 fullstacks, though numbers are unknown)."

"but if the legion is to be used for campaigning, perhaps Legatus Cotta's proposal that Massalia should be made a client state could require the legion, as its presence might intimidate the Massalians to capitulate. However, I fear the stone bastion that surrounds the city might hinder our troops greatly, as none of our legions, or commanders, has had experience in sieging a city with such a bastion."

Cicero suddenly remembers something

"ah yes, there is something I have a sudden urge to refer to in the senatorial library, please excuse me for a few moments, my assistant shall take down any other things which would be directed to me and I shall answer them when I return, it would not be long"

With that, Cicero promptly left the Curia.

Ibn-Khaldun

01-15-2009, 14:58

Quintus looks some of his fellow senators and says..

Do you people even understand the difference between Massalia and Messana??
Massalia is a town west of Segesta and Messana is a town in north of Sicily.
If I would have the power of proposing legislation I would propose that we go against Messana instead of Massalia. But those islands, Corsim and Sardinia, are also good targets but in order to reach there we need to have a navy. Something we don't have at the moment!!!

Quintus sighs...

everyone

01-15-2009, 15:07

OOC: for RP reasons, Cicero isn't back yet

Cicero's assistant stands, however with the appearance that seems as if he would sit down immediately any moment.

"Tribunus Quintus, I assure you Tribunus Cicero understands that Massalia is the stone-walled Greek city to the northwest of Segesta, wheras Messana is the Mamertine settlement on Sicilia; therefore he assumed that Legatus Cotta's proposed edict referred to taking the city northwest of Segesta, rather than the one on Sicilia. As for the thing about the islands and navies, I shall wait for Tribunus Cicero to return to answer it, because I don't think my opinion could represent his"

Ibn-Khaldun

01-15-2009, 16:10

Quintus responds..

I was talking about Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs who said

Very well proposal. Why should we leave Sicilia to those Carthagians?

And that was response to Legatus Cotta's Edict proposal

EDICT 3.2-Extract an alliance from the city of Massilia.

I would suggest that Avlvs should check his maps.

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-15-2009, 17:07

Tiberius chuckles to himself, imbeciles! He almost wished Quintus had let them continue to gaggle like women at the wash. He forces himself to stifle his good humor and take a commanding tone.

"Ave Senatores! Verily, honored Tribunus Quintus is correct. Massalia and Messana are two different places; but fear not! I concur with those senatores who suggest we expand not into the barbarous north, where we already have two legions garrisoned for defense; but rather southwardly into Sicilia! We've enough small water craft to ferry our armies across the straights of Messana and would not need to construct heavier flotillas.

"As I have stated on multiple occasions the Carthaginians are our first and foremost threat. They currently plot our own demise and would not hesitate to put the sword to our soft underbelly should the first opportunity arise! Let us send the mighty new Legio III to hone its blade and bloody its hands on the walls of Messana! In fact, to show my stalwartness and my own faith in this plan, I offer myself as a Tribune in this new Legio III. I shall take part of the lead in the destruction of our enemies!

"Now, as for the isles of Corsica and Sardinia, let us fear them not. They've not enough of a garrison let alone a nearby fleet to transfer them to be any sort of raiding party or reinforcement to a larger army. Let those rocky fortresses stand alone in the sea; it shall be their own undoing, isolated as such. After we focus our spear points on the entire island of Sicilia, then, we can further our borders and extend our reach into the deepest parts of the Mediterranean by taking the Occidental isles. When that is completed, our armies and possessions will form an arrow head with the tip being pointed at the heart of Carthago itself!

Tiberius' voice rings clearly as he crescendos for dramatic effect.

"Of course, senatores, I cannot propose this formally; but let it be on the record that I support the motions of those brave Senatores who can forsee the future of Roma surpassing that of our purported "allies" to the south and west."

SwissBarbar

01-15-2009, 17:19

Calm down Quintus, my friend, my knowledge of my maps is profound, he mumbled the name, so I did not understand it right Avlvs smiled. No, seriously, I missunderstood (OOC: i read to fast...). Adressing all the senatores: Senatores, my mistake, please forgive me.

And with a more serious countenance, he said

In fact its my oppinion to go south anyways, but we should first attack sicilia, with that we would cut the supply line from Carthage to Sardinia and Corsim. And as Quintus noted, we'd have to build expensive ships to get there. The carthagian navy is far better than any other's in the world. If we beat them, them on land.

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-15-2009, 17:30

Tiberius stand and applauds Tribunus Aulus

"Very well said, my friend. Honor to you, who so humbly and openly admits a mistake, even one so simple. Surely, your character is made stronger in the eyes of these men. As for encouraging an expedition to the south, I also commend your wisdom and vision. Truly, Roma has no better a Senator than yourself.

Raising an arm towards Aulus, Tiberius continues,

"Honored Gentlemen, we could learn much from a man such as this."

Mjolnir

01-15-2009, 18:13

Will the Roman Republic then leave a task half done? I say no. Let us strike north and finish off the Celts south of the mountains. Does one leave a wound to fester? Even now Celtic raiding parties cross into Roman territory without regard for our borders to plunder villages and towns. Let us take Mediolanum and Patavium before we even speak of Sicilia again. The installation of a pro-Roman government (OOC: type 4 government) in Massalia would would a wise decision as well. To the north Senators, to the north!

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 18:51

Cotta, having listened with growing impatience to the recent senator remarks, stands again.

Senators, I fully agree with Caivs Aemilivs Mamercvs; how can we think of moving south with one legion when we have yet to finish in the north? I absolutely loathe to see our glorious republic prepare to purposefully and effectively stab our friends in the back! Is that what we have become so quickly? You talk of Sicily as if it were Roman by birthright. Under durress of war this pact may have been done, but how dare we not only break it once the war is finished, but we attack our once time allies. Shame on you, Senators of the Republic.

I fear that Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs may still have much to learn should he think that we can tackle the greatest naval power this world has to offer without a single ship and hope to win. Superior on land our armies may be. However, the Carthaginians employ vast swathes of mercenaries, horsemen and giant beasts. They are one of the greatest powers in the Mediterrainian. An attack on them now would be fruitless, unjustified, and shortsited.

Once more, I also fear my recent edict to extract an alliance with the grand city of Massilia may have been misinterprited, and has sparked off this terrible discussion on war in Italy. Rome is not safe, Senators. I feel almost ashamed that you believe we are impossible to attack. Have you all forgotten our troubles so far? How close we have come to extinction? I do not deny the power of our armies or the potential of our republic. But daily we face old threats from many who want to see us live no longer. We have many enemies, gentlemen. Let us not create more than we need.

To justify my recent proposal, I say that, with the imminent capture of Patavium, the north of Italia will be stronger. With the protection of the western passes through the Alps protected by an allied city state, we are almost completed safe by land. Only with the eventual capture of the Insurgbres (sp.) in Mediolanium will we be safe.

I beseech you, Senators. Strike where we can, fight on our terms where we are strong. North, not south.

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-15-2009, 19:12

I abhor you, Senators. Strike where we can, fight on our terms where we are strong. North, not south.

Tiberius abruptly stands up, barely allowing Legatus Cotta to finish his last sentence, his anger seething to a near boil.

"Legatus Cotta, your work in the legions is most apprecited, and your experience is duly noted here amongst your peers; however to state that you "abhor" us? Your fellow citizens? To so casually bare your hatred for us in the open is reprehensible! While our discussions may be heated, there is no love lost amongst us. Why do you cause such unnecessary discord?

"Senior Senatores, I implore you to shame this man with a nota censoria! Let the people know who is for us and who is against us. His words cannot be taken back! He has spoken his mind and his heart for all to hear! Who but we can right this wrong? I had heard told that those of the Gens Aurelia were xenophobes; but to hear that they hate their own kind fills me with a righteous and burning anger!

Tribunus Tiberius Claudius Marcellus sits down, glowering at Legatus Caius Aurelius Cotta in absolute disgust.

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 19:22

Cotta stands, fists clenching and unclenching by his side.

And you are you to insult me so, Tribune. Never before has such insolence been spoken in these chambers. I appeal to my fellow senators sense, to their humanity and their civil nature. Man should not stab man in the back, when we once not very long ago shared wine and stories with them. You, you are not worthy of your stance in this republic should you question my right to ask justice and good faith upon our fellow man. War with Carthage? I will have no part in it before Carthage itself declares it's detest for our country.

SwissBarbar

01-15-2009, 19:46

[I]
I fear that Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs may still have much to learn should he think that we can tackle the greatest naval power this world has to offer without a single ship and hope to win. Superior on land our armies may be. However, the Carthaginians employ vast swathes of mercenaries, horsemen and giant beasts. They are one of the greatest powers in the Mediterrainian. An attack on them now would be fruitless, unjustified, and shortsited.

You may be right. I am young and I am eager to learn from you and any older and wiser senator. I have no experience, that is true. But how shall I learn, if not by bringing forward my thoughts, so wiser senators can think about them and correct brash youths as I am?

Now hear, what my thoughts areand think about it without prejudice, before you answer, dear senatores. Would 1 oder maybe 2 legions not be more than enough to hold the Celts back? You see, the league of the Arverni and the league of the Aedui are not best friends. If we attack - well, "free" - Celtic cities, we may unify them. Let them kill each other if they want to.

You are right, friend Cotta, Carthage is strong. But what can they do with their ships, block our ports? This would be not half as effectively as us taking their cities. Could we not establish a strong legion and march south, would that not be enough to beat those Carthaginians IN SICILY - please note, that I do not say, we should march towards the other islands or even Africa. That'd be the case we needed ships for. Its too early for that.

But that is not even the point. I would like to bring forward another sentiment. Messana and especially Syrakousai are very rich cities, and are not under Carthaginian command, are they? Maybe I really have to check the actual maps. Anyhow, Syrakousai is Greek and supports our Greek enemies. If we took those cities - we have good reason - they would be ours by right, not the Carthaginians. We would not start a war with them. If they don't give us the right to extinguish our adversaries, then let them attack. Then they would have started the war, and show, that they never were our friends.

With that, Avlvs sat himself and listened what would be responded.

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 19:56

Avlvs, I doubt not your desire to learn nor your ability in your character. I am a strong supporter of the Aemilii and have expressed this. I admire your courage to speak out despite your inexperience.

As for the power of the Carthaginian navy, I feel you highly underestimate its power.
OOC: We have to think about this logically, rather than in the limits of the game engine. Having a large navy would mean constant raids on Italic shores, the ability to vastly outmanouver our land armies both in speed and agility. The navies are vastly understated in Rome, though that of course is no ones fault but CA.

As for your offer of attacking the other cities of Sicily, it may be of interest to you that Carthaginian and Roman influence meets in Sicily. Within the alliance we signed with them some years before in mutual support against the Molosson threat, Sicily was considered under Carthaginian sphere of influence. No roman army would cross the straits, and likewise no Carthaginian force would attack any part of the Italian mainland.

I once more express the difficulties and dangers to the north. It seems to be such a glance over that we have suffered so much at the hands of the Gauls. We must secure our homeland before we can expect to attack outside it. We need allies outside our controlled lands to protect our borders, so that our legions need not be tied up constantly patrolling to the north, waiting attacks from the Celts.

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-15-2009, 20:06

I insult no one by asking the Curia to reprimand your statements in here. I respect your rank; but not the man who claims the title. You claimed for all to hear that you "abhor" us. Perhaps you don't know the meaning of the word - in which case how you became a Senator and a commander of men must be brought into question? Allow me to clarify."

An clerk rushes forward with a copy of the lexicon already opened to the correct section. Tiberius thanks him genially, postures about the room for a few seconds and clears his throat dramatically.

"Our word 'abhorrēre' from ab- + horrēre (to shudder) has the meaning 'to regard with extreme repugnance; to loathe.' Those are your stated words, Legatus, about us, your fellow citizens - your fellow Romani. What else do we need to hold you accountable?"

Tiberius paces while dramatically posing as if thinking.

"Your 'love of your fellow man' is duely noted, Caius. Such a shame that your fellow men are dark skinned foreigners from across the sea who took advantage of our position and coerced us into a humiliating treaty and not those who share your blood, your heritage, your home! I tell you all this: Tiberius turns around slowly with a finger raised, garnering the attention of all the men of the legislative body If we do not strike first, we will be first struck! Carthago esse delendum!"

Tiberius pauses, glowing in the uproar of senators arguing and agreeing with each other in heated exchanges. It was pure rapture. He called for quiet to finish his address.

"Gentlemen, honored fathers and sons of Roma, I am a man of convictions; but I am not so hard-headed that I cannot see the forest for the trees. May I ammend my address by suggesting that since we've the man power, we fight on two fronts. It is not wholly impossible - our legions in the north are fully capable of dealing with the rabble that inhabits the mountainous country. Let us fill one to great strength to extend out influence and leave the other in reserve, on the off chance that we should be unsuccessful. Then, with the new Legio III being formed - which I still offer to help command - I suggest we advance into Sicilia as well.

"This is not entirely unsupportable. Let us take heart in the stories of the courage of Aeneas and Romulus and Remus, all of whom overcame extreme adversity and made us the great people that we are today."

SwissBarbar

01-15-2009, 20:15

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus, reserve yourself! Not only you insult a great warlord and true roman, but also a friend of my family. A roman legatvs is to be respected, especially by a young tribvnvs as you are.

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 20:19

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-15-2009, 20:25

Raises an eyebrow at Aulus

"Young Tribunus to you as well, dear Aulus. I have paid due notice to Legatus Cotta's experience and service in the legions. His accomplishments are renowned throughout the Res Publica. However, he has insulted every member of the Curia with his comments, yourself included. I for one, shall not suckle at the proverbial teat of greatness like a muling infant. I demand satisfaction."

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-15-2009, 20:29

As I have already stated, Senator, I used the term abhor in response to the feelings of shame I feel that our grand republic would so quickly and easily forget all that the treaty we have made stands for. We have few friends; I appeal to the senate-let us not lose another. We are two of the greatest nations on this sea. United, no one can hope to stand against us. The result of the Pyrric war shows this. We have no need to fight as of yet, especially when we have as of yet unfinished business in the north.

(OOC: You edited your previous post and changed "abhor" to "beseech". Not very good RP if you ask me, and you didn't clarify that you meant abhor in reference to the feelings of shame.)

"If you have misspoken, Legatus, then I shall accept your mistake. I am sure you will forgive my indignation towards your spoken, though unintentional, insult."

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 20:30

I will not be drawn any further into this argument. I have made myself perfectly clear. I abhor not the men before me, but the discussion of the attacking our allies that these senators seem to think is acceptable. Tribune Marcellus has made his point clear and has begun to make the attack personal. Therefore here is the basis for my withdrawal.

I have a lot of paperwork to do regarding my legion. I will return to the Curia at a later date.

OOC: I do actually have a lot of work to do for tomorrow. If I don't do it now I never will.

Warluster

01-15-2009, 21:47

Macvs stands angrily and quickly

It is good you have resolved the arguement, senators, as we do not need such useless talk disturbing our discussions. There are more important thing's are stake here then your honor. I insist you both get over it.

Marcvs nods politely towards both men

I actually agree with Legatus Cotta. Why'll Sicilia is a problem, I think we should strike into Gaul. Who cares if the Averni or Aedui are strng? We have Roman might! They shall tremble! One strike into that damned place and thousands of slaves shall run to our Roman mines!

Strike the place! Enslave or kill them all! Send two legion's I propose!

Marcvs stops talking in his booming voice, and sits down.

navarro951

01-15-2009, 22:01

After hearing the long debates Heres Blasio rises..

"Our dictator wishes to relay a message, he believes that the Carthaginians are imperialists! Our great Dentatvs speaks of truce with the Epirotes and war with Carthage. In all, he proposes:

Edict 3.3: That the war be declared on Carthage with the complete take over of Sicilia and institution of allied governments there.

Edict 3.4: That a diplomat be sent to Epeiros asking for a ceasefire in our long and drawn out war.

"It is my belief that in dealing with the Iberian barbarians, the Carthaginian forces in Sicilia will quickly fall to our sword and their navy can be dealt with at a later time."

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 22:11

Cotta, having recently stepped back into the hall, angrily rises.

Dictator, Heres, Senators of Roma. With every respect I have for our great Dictator, I cannot believe what I am hearing. Forgive me for saying so, but it sounds too much of a random outburst. The Dictator believes the Carthaginians are imperialists? What proof have we they harbour imperialist dreams? And in what way do these affect the safety of Roma and her allies in the near future? Would the dictator himself forsake Roman honour and attack our allies? Rome's reputation will be tainted forever.

As for the next edict, I also ask has the dictator so quickly forgotten his support and the support received from the senators here today that we would not finance our enemies in Greece? We have defeated our enemies there for the moment. Why should we now offer them the chance to use Roman gold to fund new armies to once more threaten the Italian peninsula? Forgive me, but these I fail to see what basis these edicts are based on, and how they are for the good of Rome?

Mjolnir

01-15-2009, 22:11

And what does our noble dictator base this claim of Carthaginian "imperialism" on? The fact that Carthaginian soldiers haven't moved outside their borders in the last 6 years?

Caivs' voice drips with sarcasm.

Do alliances mean so little to Rome that they can be broken without provocation?

As for peace with the Epeiros, I support. Our war with them is pointless now that we have driven them from our peninsula.

navarro951

01-15-2009, 22:22

"Ill grant you that, their forces have not moved. But they have kept a small force outside of Messana for some time now. The have harassed their trade routes and influenced them against joining our Republic. This you cannot disregard. Alliances do amount for much here in Roma, but as the Carthaginians grow economically stronger, it will become impossible for our two peoples to co-exist. What are we to do should one day these forces in Sicilia cross into Rhegion? Are we going to let them keep tabs on us when we have done nothing of the sort, at least not militarily?"

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 22:29

Then it is not stupendous to station a force in the south of Italy in the way of saying we can protect ourselves, but we honour alliances made? So they have troops postioned and diplomatic ideas of their own within their own sphere of influence? Are they not allowed? Sicily is not Roman, nor is it connected in any way to Rome. Carthage is within its own right, right dictated by a pact made by our own people, to station troops withing Sicily to protect it's interests there. I believe it to be a grave offence to see this an excuse to attack them, or simply an excuse to attack them.

navarro951

01-15-2009, 22:35

"Yes, but above all it is time to expand. We are not making the Denarii we could be making. And with the ports in Sicilia, we could fund our troops and new troops as well for years to come. And has it not been discussed already that Korsim and Sardin be taken? I cannot imagine the Dicator and myself are the only ones who believe in making this age an age of Roman expansion."

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 22:40

Sir, how can we speak of expanding when we do not even have secure our own country. Let us first ensure the country is safe, prosperous and happy. We can best do this by for now securing the south and what we control. We unite the northern cities of Patavium, Mediolanium and Massilia and ensure they are allied to Roma. They can then protect our borders, dispensing of the need for constant patrols of our legions to the north. Italia, Roma and the people will be secure. Then, and only then, do I propose we begin to think of expansion across waters.

Mjolnir

01-15-2009, 22:42

The question is not if to expand, but where to expand. I am at a lose why certain members of this assemble are insisting of tackling a sleeping bear, while we have a rabid dog snapping at our heels. We are already engaged with the Celts in the north, why leave the job unfinished to march all the way to the other in of our Republic to attack allies who have not made any threatening moves?

navarro951

01-15-2009, 22:44

I do agree that Massilia should be taken, in fact along with Patavium they are at the top of our military objectives. However, how do you propose we take Mediolanium or ally with it? Those barbarians there may not even honor the truce we have now and you think they will accept us as friends? No civilized Roman will ever call themselves a friend of barbarian scum!

/Bean\

01-15-2009, 22:55

We send our legions and crush them. We install a puppet government, heavy taxes and levy the lands' sons to serve in our armies, bringing them up as Romans. I am well aware that these tribes below the Alps harbour alliances and friendships with those past it. However, I fear not incursions or threats on invasions from these Gauls. They are tied up with civil war within their own country, and if they do find the men to spare to cross the Alps, we can easily have a legion alongside native armies stationed in the north to deal with such puny attempts. We can also provide aid to their enemies in their country, eithier forcefully, diplomatically or monetarily, in order to keep their attention elsewhere.

Warluster

01-15-2009, 23:45

If the Dictator, or his heir, make a decision, we have no choice but to follow it. If Senator Blasio, as heir to the Dictatorship, thinks we should take Sicily, then we shall! You speak of securing our homelands? What of Taras? That was not part of our lands!? The lands north of Roma, they were Celtic!

Our economy struggles, and by launching a offensive into Gaul will we will waste money and lives. Carthrage is obviously imperialistic as has been pointed out; Sicily is not their lands, but ours! What of Sardinia? That is under their iron grasp and people need liberation!

Senator Blasio I will happily support and second any Edict you propose concerning the war against Carthrage. We need a boost in our economy, and the island of Sicily is easily defendable, unlike Massilia northwards.

Mjolnir

01-16-2009, 00:01

If the Dictator, or his heir, make a decision, we have no choice but to follow it.

Perhaps you need a lesson on the meaning of the word "Republic"?

SwissBarbar

01-16-2009, 00:08

Yes, my cousin's right. What do we have the senate for, when the dictator allone could decide what to do?

OOC: do not confuse roman dictatorship with the modern meaning of Dictator. Dictator was a political office. Actually it was limited to six months! (Only exceptions: Caesar and Sulla)

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-16-2009, 00:25

A smug smile emerged on Tiberius' face. His agitation amongst the senatores had served its purpose. Peace woulf be attained with the Hellenes, bringing their gold, culture, and greatest minds to Roma. His tutelage had paid off. And what of the barbaroi to the north? They would be conquered sooner or later, there were men a-plenty to see to that; but Carthago was already established. They themselves had men a-plenty eyeing the fertile lands of Italia. Yes, it was time for war with Carthago and Sicilia was to be the staging ground. Legatus' Cotta's name had been besmirched by his own words. It would take little maintenance to continue to turn ears away from his lips. Already the Dictator was declaring that the legions should head south. Should things go well, all would know of the wisdom of Tiberius Claudius Marcellus. And if they went poorly, well, the Dictator would take the fall, as he decreed it should be so.

navarro951

01-16-2009, 00:46

Thank you Marcvs Marcellvs, but indeed I must agree that the Republic is what is most important. But above all, you have made great points as to what land is really "ours". And I still stand firm. I believe the war with Carthage will be easily one anyway. I do not underestimate them, but Sicilia if it is swiftly taken will be an easy diplomatic weapon to regain truce. Then when the money flows in, we can dominate both of these warring barbarian countries who cant even keep their own country intact.

Il_Duce

01-16-2009, 01:31

Legatus Claudius Nero had finally arrived back in Rome the fortnight before this. He had spent the day washing, relaxing, and getting caught up on what he missed in Curia. His assistant and scribe had spent the season in the senate as Nero was off conquering land in the north under the Honorable Legatus Cotta. For he had traveled back to the eternal city for the advent of the Congressional Council. He had sat with open ears and open mind for much of the day, until he could bare no more to stay quiet.

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus! My my my, have we so quickly forgotten our place in this here Curia? You tongue talks like a Legatus, yet your title carries not such a rank. I believe you are a very smart man, but do know who you insult and who you do not. I will not stand by as my close friend and commander is insulted by such outrageous mockery. I should come over there and put you in place if we were not in a place with so many decent individuals. I will keep an eye on you, surely.

Excuse my outburst dear Senatores, but I have yet another topic to rant about.

This talk of simply 'stranding' our dear Legions in the north in favor of a grand conquest of Carthage has left me speechless until now. Do we forget that these are the Romans who were the original defenders of our homeland, who so courageously fought the Barbarian giants back from whence they came and established but two entire provincae which will undoubtedly serve as a barrier between the Celtic horde. We have but a meager navy and yet we have proposed a invasion of flotilla to head on a Hellenic power? And what happens when we take the island of Sicily? What will happen with the Carthagos come to claim their lost territory? I do not doubt the might of our soldiers, but I'm afraid one legion is not enough to fight off an entire Empire. If we establish our dominance in the north we will be able to do as we wish... but until then we can not wander away from such an imminent threat.

I gladly support edict 3.1, but of the others I can not.

navarro951

01-16-2009, 03:00

I think that establishing a navy would not be necessary. Aside from that though, something must happen and happen soon. If the Epirotes don't return from the north, the Gallic barbarians will as we expand toward them. If we allow Carthage to grow more powerful, when the time does come to face them, they will of amassed forces we will not be able to contend with. Simply put, this senate must come to an agreement on the future of our expansion and safety. Will we finish off the Epeiros? Invade Sicilia? Or march north against the barbarians? What I am saying is that we cannot stand back and watch as enemies surround us and friends become stronger then us.

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus

01-16-2009, 05:24

"Legatus Nero, we praise the gods for your safe return. As for your baseless accusations that I have insulted anyone, I will let the written record speak for me. And while I respect the rank attained by you and others, I speak as a free Roman, appointed to represent the interests of the people of Tarentum within the greater Res Publica. I will not sacrifice what truth need be told for the sake of political correctness. If that is a flaw in your eyes, then so be it.

"Rest assured, noble commander that no one here speaks of abandoning our legions or the men who have sacrificed so much to the cold north. In fact, I had proposed when Consul Asina was slain that the very legions you claim we plot to "abandon" should be celebrated with a Triumphus here in Roma. Indeed, we are discussing them having a rest to guard our borders, to further pacify and romanize the lands they have just liberated. Surely you would not begrudge them a respite from slaugther? Continue training them, they will again be needed one day."

Il_Duce

01-16-2009, 06:14

Ahh yes Tribunus, and will you be the one who will apologize to the Celts for intruding upon their land? They will strike at us again, very soon. And they will not be very happy.

everyone

01-16-2009, 13:23

Cicero returns to the Curia, and after a lengthy conversation with his assistant, he turns to address the senatores.

Apologies for my rather lengthy absence, for I had to refer to some records in the Senatorial library, to observe where would be a sound target to strike; and from my judgement, I have been convinced that though Mediolanum and Patavium is an obvious target by consensus among my fellow senatores, would it not be more wise if we just halt our efforts there once the Cisalpine frontier is secured? I doubt those celts would find it a challenge to re-establish their presence in Cisalpine Gaul once we rid the region of them.

Then, I suppose the main challenge is to destroy the massive horde near Mediolanum, but as our first great victory, the one by Consul Asina over the Epirotes, shows, our armies are more suited to fight in the field even against superior forces; therefore if we adopt a similar strategy as how we did to take Taras, the Insurbe would be the next on the list of peoples who have subjugated to Rome.

Afterwards, we should then prepare an invasion of Sicilia; as past reports have shown that the garrisons and armies of the various nations in Sicilia are not that sizable, a Legion, well supplied, could take it within a year or two, if wisely led. This may lead to inevitable war with the Poeni, who we may regard as our trading partners and 'allies'; but with the takeover of Sicilia, we could have more Denarii flowing into our coffers as it has been said that the Goddess Ceres resides on Sicilia, making its land very fertile and productive; and therefore could field more armies, and perhaps a sizable navy, to challenge Punic dominance.

/Bean\

01-16-2009, 13:49

Mooks

01-16-2009, 18:50

Cotta stands, nodding.

Senators, I agree with what is being said here. Along with Patavium and Mediolanium, I do stress we should also ally ourselves with the city of Massilia to protect the routes to the west. We can use the northern allies to protect our borders, while we ourselves turn southward. I know how precious and resourceful the island of Sicily is, and how rich it will make our republic.

However, I will not have blood on my hands. I refuse to accept that Rome will simply throw away treaties of alliance and friendship without provocoraton. Carthage, although powerful and potentially dangerous in the furute, are still allied to us.

Allied to us? More like friendly trading partners. Carthrage is only not raiding us because they make money at our ports. They eye us and we eye them.

Also, you make a poor general if your unwilling to take to combat yourself. Maybe you should resign as a general and give the command of the legions to less cowardly men?

I propose a small force comprising of one senator and 1-2 units of hastati and maybe a single unit of principe go to sardinia or corisica to liberate it from Carthaginian control, once war on the bigger island of Sicily commences. The islands are as much Roman as Poeni, being neither.My patrons who number a few merchants and a greek report that the islands are lightly defended and their people not even participating in the defence of the main settlements.The senator commanding the small force, not big enough to be considered a legion, should be brave, know his way on a boat and around a countryside, and be willing to give his life if a unexpected counterattack does happen or the assault goes awry. I volunteer myself.

Potocello

01-16-2009, 21:23

Having been absent for a few days, Servivs Longvs talks to his assistant who is informing him of what is going on in the Curia. The assistant finishes, and Servivs stands to address the senators.

"Ave senators, please excuse my absense, issues in my home have kept my from the Curia. Now to the issues at hand, i must agree with Legatvs Cotta. Why should we turn on our Carthaginian trading partners? Both nations are gaining profit from this agreement, there is no need to violate it with a pointless war. A war which will cost us large sums of money, time we do not have, and a war which will put us in a position where we are fighting a two front war. Do not forget the barbarians in the north, my friends, they are still lusting for our blood. Decimus Scipio, i am afraid if we fail in the south, volunteering yourself would just be another waste of Romani life.

Instead of mobilizing troops to the south to mass an unprovoked attack on Carthage, let's send reinforcements to the north where the real threats lay."

/Bean\

01-16-2009, 23:56

navarro951

01-17-2009, 02:01

"This Congressional Session is now closed. All legislation presentation has ended and the floor is now open for routine discussion. 48 hours will be allotted for voting!"

everyone

01-17-2009, 09:35

Cicero prepares himself

"Why should Massilia be taken? Though it may serve as a port where we may possibly trade with those Gauls, it may also serve to provoke them into attacking the city and bringing war between our peoples.

When we take Mediolanum, no doubt it would severely weaken our foes, therefore some would use that as an excuse to continue with the takeover of the rest of Gaul. However I would object to that. When we take Gaul, do we not have to impose our proper ways of life onto their Barbaric lifestyles? how about the infrastructure there? we would have to build them from scratch, the roads, defences, markets and so on. how about maintaining the garrisons? The Germanic tribes to the East of Gaul would be constantly eyeing that region, perhaps one day our legions may have to face those Germanic hordes, which from what I heard from merchants, are more ferocious than the Celts we are used to facing.

However, if we were to take Sicilia; the peoples there already have notions of a proper civilised lifestyle, they have walls, roads, ports, markets, infrastructure already built. Which landmass is closer to Sicilia, Italia or Africa? and from that, who would have an advantage in reinforcing that island?

Let us now compare our foes: Gauls, and if Sicilia were taken: the Poeni.
the Gaulish warriors fight with zeal, they march to where their enemies are; the Punic soldiers fight because the city of Carthage covers them with gold, they march where their general throws the coin. By taking Sicilia, we deprive the Poeni of resources for which to pay their mercenaries.

Anyway, those Poeni are becoming less and less like our Allies each day: Punic Soldiers were seen near the straits of Messena, and for a season threatening the city itself, their fleets sail close to our shores, perhaps threatening a naval blockade, or threatening our merchants; who carry goods to far of places in exchange for gold to fill our coffers."

taking a breath, Cicero seems triumphant, yet unconfident

/Bean\

01-17-2009, 11:24

Cotta stands.

I think you misunderstand the notion of allying with the Massilians. We do not want war with them, nor do we wish to take the city and her lands for ourselves. Only an alliance so that we may protect each other in times of need.
OOC: This requires obviously attacking and defeating the city, and installing a type 4 government. That makes it an allied city, and we make a regional army to serve as the Massilian army. The attack can be auto resolved and off the books, so it doesnt look like an attack. It's just a good way to ally a player with a free city.

I would also like to personally thank all those who have voted against the war on Sicily. The argument has been going on for many weeks now, so I won't continue it now. But we are not ready for a war with Carthage yet. This is not the time to discuss this matter.

Mooks

01-17-2009, 15:36

Cotta stands, a look of disbelief on his face

Who are you to call me a coward? I have fought in the front lines in every campaign our republic has taken in the last 8 years! I pulled Consul Asina's body away from the surrounding enemy myself! How dare you think you can call me a coward within this hall! I must admire your bravery, sir, but I also have to scorn you for your stupidity.

I would also like to point out that 'I do not wish to have blood on my hands' is a figure of speech. It means I do not want to have any part is stabbing our allies, for that IS what they are, no matter how you view them, in the back.

Oh, and how very noble of you, Senator, to volunteer yourself and these soldiers of Rome to transport yourself across the sea to the islands in the west. Rome must be so proud to have brave generals like you in her armoury. We do not have the resources to attack north and south at the same time, let alone a strike across to Corsica and Sardinia. I see absolutely no sense in what you have said.

Pulled Consul Asina's body away? Only when your own personell guards sorrounded the body, then shooed away the slaves picking up the rest of the bodies. And we all know who's payroll the guards are on. We also all know whos payroll depends on the Carthaginians are on also *Turns his head towards Cotta".

And when I volunteered my service to Rome for the capture of Sardinia/Corsica I meant it with humbleness. For I consider it wrong, nay, unroman to propose a military expedition that I myself wouldnt go on. Especially a dangerous one as so.

We do have sufficent Roman forces for a small attack on sardinia or Corsica. Or are you doubting the Roman strength and saying we need 2x the number of the garrisoned Poeni troops there?

The legislation said no attack on Carthrage. So I will not debate the issue anymore. But I urge the senators to remember their loyalty to Rome, and refuse bribes from foreign nations *takes a quick glance at Cotta then focuses back on the center of the senate body once again*.

*Decimus takes a seat. When seated friendly senators around him cant but help to laugh but making sure noone hears them (they fail miserably)*

everyone

01-17-2009, 15:52

Cicero stands up, with his familiar morose expression

"Surely, Decimus Cornelius Scipio, you may be mistaken, Legatus Cotta is an honest man, I have campaigned with him in his time under Consul Asina, there is little doubt. But the argument on who had pulled the body of Consul Asina away from the barbarians saddens me; why would any person who respects the consul claim glory or slander another over his death? We should halt discussion on who had saved the late Consul."

his tone changes

"As for the islands of Sardinia and Corsica, I think they're merely backwater regions, their thick forests, hilly terrain is neither good for farming nor easy to maintain order; it would probably cost more denarii than it produces to maintain it, and therefore should not be attacked, for now."

"Though the legislation did not mention an attack on the city of Carthage, bringing that up is rather irrelevant, our main topic is whether should Sicilia be taken over, which I believe you agree with me that it should. If we do not wish for a prolonged war with Carthage, perhaps:

OOC: I shall revert to OOC for this part, because I think it's hard to phrase what I am about to say IC. We attack/take over Messena, then Syracuse, and also win major victories over some of their field armies on sicily, by that time, it would probably be the next Congressional session, so someone passes an edict like "make peace with the Carthaginians and annex the island of Sicily (and/or corsica and sardinia)", which could be FD'ed according to the rules.

could be done"

Mooks

01-17-2009, 16:03

*Deciumus makes his reply*

First, I did not mention a attack on Carthrage. I should have made that clearer. Carthrage is the embodiment of everything poeni, when I said carthrage I meant in general all the forces they control. Just like in theyre senate, when they are discussing attacks upon us. Which no doubt they are, they mention Rome not meaning literally Rome, but the embodiment of rome, our soldiers and land holdings.

I drop the proposal to Corisica/Sardinia.

everyone

01-17-2009, 16:13

Mooks

01-17-2009, 16:39

very well, but in that case, Edict 3.3 clearly stated war with Carthage, and her holdings in Sicilia.

And you have brought up a rather interesting point, Carthage's own senate or council, or whatever name they might call themselves may also be discussing attacks on our lands this moment; we must be decisive, deliberations and arguments here only delay time, allowing the enemy to strike quick and leave our forces crippled.

Deliberations and arguements are the cornerstone of any republic. We must never censor our words, for we will become no better then the Estruscans. While I may disagree with Cotta, his arguemensts are just as valid as mine, even if it is inspired possibly by outsiders.

/Bean\

01-17-2009, 20:12

Cotta stands again.

Thnak you, Senators. I am not really sure what basis these allegations against me have, but never would I consider or have considered taking money from a foreign power to protect their interests. I am an honest Roman and a believer in her power. I am not sure why I can be accused of being on Carthage's payroll.

And also, there were numerious witnesses that relayed to the Dictator and the Senate of how I personally waded into the fight to claim Asina's body; not in any attempt to cement my own glory or to further my career, but because I could not stand by and simply watch my great commander and comrade taken down. In case you have forgotten, I was awarded the Corona Civica for my actions-a truely esteemed award I had no wish for at the time of the assault.
I feel it was necessary to defend myself against these accusations, and hope this need go no further.

navarro951

01-17-2009, 21:25

"Decimus Cornelius Scipio!..."Heres Blasio speaks..."I was at that horrific battle, and I awarded Legatus Cotta his Corona Civica personally! You mind your tongue when you speak to a young man I would bid my life on. At the moment, he may be the most honored man in this curia, aside from our honored dictator who has striven to expand this republic. Legatus Cotta let no man tell you of your valor in that siege. Consul Asina gave his life in taking of another, and Legatus Cotta risked his life in saving of a good friend. And I declare it here and now...no man will ever speak once more of rumor and nonsense of Legatus Cotta's actions, for we who stood there on that bloody day know the truth!"

"Yes...let no more be heard of this matter"

/Bean\

01-17-2009, 21:30

Cotta rises again, a smile on his face

I thank Heres Blasio for his honesty, loyalty and justice. Let no one doubt his word in Rome.

navarro951

01-17-2009, 21:32

Heres Blasio nods...he knows no more words are needed on that issue

"Let us drift from any more bickering, their are matters at hand. I wished to give leadership of Legio III to Legatus Servivs Longvs(OOC:Potocello), as he is next in line for a command post, but he has not yet excepted the offer so we must deal with this soon."

/Bean\

01-17-2009, 21:38

I will depart for the Campvs Martivs to relay this information to the masses, sir.

Cotta rises and walks briskly from the Curia.

everyone

01-18-2009, 15:48

Cicero abruptly rises

"I had just remembered that nobody has been assigned or elected to serve as consuls this term. Heres, who are to take up the positions?"

/Bean\

01-18-2009, 16:08

Cotta, having returned to the Curia some time ago, rises.

I was under the impression that the Heres would be acting Consul until we had another senator of the rank of Dux.

Il_Duce

01-18-2009, 16:41

And what would you have us new Legates of the two Legions do? Shall we stay with the army?

/Bean\

01-18-2009, 17:57

Sorry, I didn't understand the question. Can you elaborate?

navarro951

01-18-2009, 18:58

A magistrate speaks from the side...

"Our Dictator will remain Consul of Finance and our Heres shall be acting Consul of the Legions."

OOC: Ya well for now till someone makes Dux it has to be this way i guess.

Potocello

01-18-2009, 21:13

Beaming, Servivs Sempronivs Longvs enters the Curia.

"Good citizens of Roma, I thank you for this great honour you have given me by giving me control of the Legio III. I will serve glorious Roma to the best of my abilities and i hope to expand Roma's borders with this legion. I thank you for the pride and glory you have bestowed upon my name."

Servivs sits, waiting for the debate of the Curia to begin once again

/Bean\

01-18-2009, 21:16

Senators, the time has come. I nominate that the Legio's I Apulia and II Latium b dispatched immediately to Pativium.

navarro951

01-18-2009, 21:20

Dictator Dentatvs' personal messenger enters the Curia positioning himself to be seen by all senatores...

"Good senators, on behalf of our Dictator here are the plans for the years up and coming:

Legio III Campania, now under the command of Legatus Longvs, will be trained and commissioned for combat.

Legio's I and II are ready and rested. At their commanders will they are ordered to take the independent city of Patavium. After which, Edict 3.2 will be put into motion.

A diplomat will be sent to Epeiros and extend a ceasefire to Phyrros himself.

For now, the dictator wish's that Legatus Cotta would be so kind as to relay all commanders and chosen tribuni to the dictator's quarters personally. (OOC: Same way you did it last time Baen in your PM's that was very organized, much obliged if you could do that again.)"

/Bean\

01-18-2009, 21:24

Beggin your pardon, sir, but the Tribuni for the Legio's I and II are alreayd choson and commishoned; the names have been under the Legion's flags in the Curia for some days now. Is that what you mean?

navarro951

01-18-2009, 22:04

Heres Blasio walks in...(OOC: Take into account its been 3 months ending the winter)

"Senators...our great Dictator Dentatvs, was finally put to a long rest. The God's will let him be in peace now in the after life. I must accept the title now of Dictator. I will stand for Roma and all of us here to continue the great Dentatvs' dream. Let us all mourn and keep this Republic together.

As for my selection of Heres, I pass the title on to my newly adopted son Manivs Cicero and my duties as Consul of the Legions. I will take on my fathers job as Consul of Finance. He is only a tribune true, but if our great Consul Asina trusted him with his life and would gladly trust my life to the Consul, then I hope you will all respect my decision. If anyone believes this is a improper choice, speak now for I am a man of the senate."

The new dictator seats himself in the feelings of depression looming over him...