Chicago Soirée [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

You are content to ignore me, as you have this entire game.

I won't even bother arguing with you TinCow, because you wouldn't give me the time of day before.

And there is so much right here that makes you smell terrible, I don't need to conclude any case against you. And I don't believe your explanation, if it even matters to you.

[Andres]

Rules, Andres.

And nice WIFOM tactic.

I said I didn't believe in WIFOM.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I said I didn't believe in WIFOM.

WIFOM does exist, but people can choose not to use it.

I do believe you're capable of reverse psychology, you used it as mafia before. I've been tracking your activity as mafia in previous games, and it matches with your pattern.

You aren't a simple mafioso, you do lurk occasionally, but mostly you post. There are other telltale signs that you're scum, but for obvious reasons I won't be revealing my methods here.

[seireikhaan]

"LittleGrizzly, the town has sentenced you to death," Chief Vonken proclaimed after tallying votes. "What is your last wish?"

Head hung, LittleGrizzly requested "Can I have one last smoke?"

"Well, you know what? The last time I granted request, we ended up with a mortuary filing suit against a dead person for sexual assault. So... I think not." With that, Chief Vonken raised his pistol towards LittleGrizzly. His finger squeezed the trigger. *Click. *Click Click. "What the heck?" Chief Vonken tapped the barrel on his hand, trying to unjam the weapon. On the third tap, the weapon fired off twice, into the crowd. Warluster and Warman were on the unfortunate receiving end of these misfires, both shots scoring direct shots through each man's heart. "Whoops... uhmm... my bad." Raising the pistol once more to LittleGrizzly, Chief Vonken fired off a single shot, directly through the skull of the condemned man.



Tally

Little Grizzly: 4 (Beefy, Tincow, Andres, White_Eyes)
Reenk: 3 (Lord Winter, taka, Reenk Roink)
White_Eyes: 1 (Tevash)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)
Not Voting: 5 (Boudica, Caius, Sigurd, Warluster, Warman)



Alive: 12

Andres
Beefy
Boudica
Caius
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Lord Winter
Reenk Roink
Sigurd
Taka
TevashSzat
TinCow
White_Eyes


Dead: 8
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Glyphz (N3)
QuintusJC (N4)
Shlin28 (N4)

Lynched: 3

Chaotix (D1)
Askthepizzaguy (D2)
Ares777 (D3)
LittleGrizzly (D4)

Suicide: 1

Hooahguy (D2)

WoK: 1

Sarathos (D3)
Warluster (D4)
Warman (D4)

[Andres]

WIFOM does exist, but people can choose not to use it.

I do believe you're capable of reverse psychology, you used it as mafia before. I've been tracking your activity as mafia in previous games, and it matches with your pattern.

You aren't a simple mafioso, you do lurk occasionally, but mostly you post. There are other telltale signs that you're scum, but for obvious reasons I won't be revealing my methods here.

Apparently, those reasons are not obvious enough for me, because I can't see them... :shrug:

And when I have enough time to dedicate, I'm usually very talkative in these games.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't wish to divulge my mafia search pattern methods, that you might elude them.

I am checking activity. You should be able to clear anyone who wasn't online. So... lets see who isn't barking.

[Andres]

You should be able to clear anyone who wasn't online. So... lets see who isn't barking.

If you allude to me using my moderator powers to see through invisible mode and use it as an unfair advantage in mafia, then I have to inform you that I've never done so and will never do so.

In case I misunderstood, then I apologise for thinking that that was what you meant :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

No, Andres, that wasn't what I meant at all. It can be read differently. When I said "you" there, I meant town.

So, Andres, are you interested to hear what the activity report reveals? How about you, TinCow?

:laugh2:

[Andres]

Please, enlighten us.

[Askthepizzaguy]

We shall see who barks tonight, as I have the activity of everyone up to this point, excluding the invisible people.

Hopefully we can determine who showed up since night time begins.

[LittleGrizzly]

Alive: 12

Andres
Beefy
Boudica
Caius
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Lord Winter
Reenk Roink
Sigurd
Taka
TevashSzat
TinCow
White_Eyes

Suspects

Andres
Boudica
Gaius Scribonius Curio
TinCow

and possibly white eyes, but him less than the rest, boudica im not sure on may just be a new-ish player (no offense) concentrate on andres, tincow nad after those gaius...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I will be interested to see who they murder tonight. :mellow:

[Andres]

I hope they dig up ATPG and kill him again :mellow:

All kidding aside, your system is flawed:

a) people can use invisible mode and not post at the Org during night (not everybody is a posting machine like you and me);
b) most hosts allow to let the partner send in your kills in case RL prevents to send in your orders (--> X and Y are mafia; X can't be online during a certain night and asks his partner to send in his kill orders for him); in other words: you don't even have to be online to get your kills in.
c) there are other ways to communicate than through the Org -> messenger, e-mail, quicktopic, etc.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I know it's not 100%.

However, people who don't log in, or are WOG bait, and then suddenly show up... they can be suspect. People who don't show up at all can't be suspects if the host WOGs, which this one does.

And I TEND to believe people will show up here to talk to their mafia buddy while they check the website for other things. It's not proof, but it's a definite pattern.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Andres, I'm particularly interested in your opinion on the matter, since you're still alive. Are our votes really in the best place at the moment?


You know, TinCow asked you a question Andres. You never responded. TinCow never followed up on it. Odd behavior for veteran players who are supposedly "paying more attention" than me. Why, if you have information to share, don't you discuss it with the rest of us? Why don't you follow up on scummy suspects who don't respond to questioning? Why don't you respond to TinCow, Andres?

Just curious how if you're such veteran players, both pro-town, you would consciously exclude one another from the suspect list, and ignore each other's scummy behavior. That's all. That's not much, is it? That's not a minor gripe, really, it's a tiny, tiny gripe.

[Andres]

You know, TinCow asked you a question Andres. You never responded. TinCow never followed up on it. Odd behavior for veteran players who are supposedly "paying more attention" than me. Why, if you have information to share, don't you discuss it with the rest of us? Why don't you follow up on scummy suspects who don't respond to questioning? Why don't you respond to TinCow, Andres?

Just curious how if you're such veteran players, both pro-town, you would consciously exclude one another from the suspect list, and ignore each other's scummy behavior. That's all. That's not much, is it? That's not a minor gripe, really, it's a tiny, tiny gripe.

I already mentioned my suspicions about TinCow. And I didn't like his question (the one you quoted), because the answer is in the post where I quoted 6 posts from LittleGrizzly to explain my vote.

TinCow's question was totally unnecessary, since I already gave my opinion on LG before he asked.

That's the second time he made a useless, odd comment (first time was when he said something along the lines of "if I were mafia, I would chose the same kills", can't be bothered to go look for it right now).

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you're suspicious of TinCow, prove it with your voting behavior.

I'm checking to see how often you have voted for TinCow or seriously posted your suspicions about him. I'm also checking on noble Tincow's behavior towards you.

One of you is mafia, possibly the other. Let's find out who.

[Andres]

If you're suspicious of TinCow, prove it with your voting behavior.

Cannot vote more then one player per round. Also, TinCow is not the kind of player I would lynch in the first few rounds of a game :shrug:

[Askthepizzaguy]

That may be, but your refusal to vote him does speak volumes. And I know you've voted for veteran players as mafia before, as a strategy. You went after Sigurd in a previous game consistently, for I forget was it 4 or 5 rounds, despite other suspects, evidence, etc. And Sigurd was innocent, and he was a strong player and a threat to you in that game.

Why you wouldn't go after TinCow at all, although you cover your butt and give a half-hearted effort to do so, makes me wonder.

Maybe TinCow is innocent. Maybe you are. But one of you likes keeping the other one alive for some reason, either as a suspect... or as a partner.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So, you want evidence? Proof maybe?


CLICK THE SPOILER. THIS IS MY CASE AGAINST TINCOW AND ANDRES.

TinCow, pray, tell me, what purpose did the underlined part of your post serve except for messing with our minds about your guilt or innocence? Read it again and you'll see that it's basically a confession.

Post 421. This is as close as you got Andres, to really going after Tincow. But there's more... much much more.


Little Grizzly: 3 (Beefy, Tincow, Andres) Post 439.
Amazing! you vote together to ensure neither of you gets lynched. Guess who got lynched???


TinCow voted for the lynchee post 392.


Posy 257: You agree with me throwing my weight around, Andres... or at least superficially you do. Soon thereafter, you become hostile to such a tactic!

Votes for me after I go after TinCow.

Andres and Tincow voted me together.

Andres and Tincow got into a potentially fabricated conversation round about post 177

Andres reacted badly after a humorous and light hearted exchange when I voted him, post 224. He got nervous.

Tincow's first vote was a newbie. Andres voted for the lynchee day one.


Andres and Tincow together have been responsible for all the lynches so far, if taken together. Each of them have voted for the eventual dead guy. Not both consistently, but one OR both of them has consistently. And they have been wrong, every single time.

That's either really bad luck or a concerted effort to destroy town. And they've never gone after one another properly. We can afford to lose both of them, guys.

[Andres]

Or maybe we fell in love and we're going to marry soon.

Those things happen, you know...

[LittleGrizzly]

Or maybe we fell in love and we're going to marry soon.

Those things happen, you know...

Those kids are going to be some dangerous mafia players...

Lynch TC and Andres now to avoid the possibility!!

[TinCow]

Well, you do have those luscious lips Andres...

[Askthepizzaguy]

It is getting close to spring, and romance is in the air.

The case against you Andres is quite darning. (keeping my language within forum requirements. I can't say the other word, can I?) I don't blame you for the lack of an adequate response.

And if you're a townie, my spidey senses are wrong. And I'll apologize. And I'm sorry. And I'm sorry to town as well for leading you so astray. What I am doing is no different than that of any other player townie trying to stay in the game and keep the pressure on the top suspects, so even if I am wrong, you cannot really blame me. The evidence is compelling, though I am biased on the matter.

It's up to town to calmly and rationally consider why you're both still alive, both like each other so much, and both cannot hit the broad side of a barn when lynching mafia. (In this game, anyway)

[White_eyes:D]

Town not active enough to lynch them both....:no: we boned.......:sweatdrop:

[TinCow]

Eh, not really, since I'm a townie. Can't speak for Andres, but from my perspective ATPG is going to be doing a lot of apologizing after the game is over.

[White_eyes:D]

Well, when I think about it.....you two have watched each others back since the beginning......IN FACT didn't GH; die very suddenly after Andres got all paranoid that he was going to call a bandwagon on him????:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:

Edit:and you were VERY supportive during that time TinCow.....~:flirt:

[Thermal]

@andres


Essentially, the question is, why shouldn't you and tincow be lynched over boudica and gaius? forget cases against you, what is more important is whether someone else has an even bigger suspicion against them, if they don't you, andres are the logical lynch choice (depending on the night)

[TinCow]

Well, when I think about it.....you two have watched each others back since the beginning......IN FACT didn't GH; die very suddenly after Andres got all paranoid that he was going to call a bandwagon on him????:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:

Edit:and you were VERY supportive during that time TinCow.....~:flirt:

Uh, you'll recall that Andres went after ME during that whole paranoia phase and it was GH who was defending me, not me defending Andres. Nice try though. This very idea that Andres and I have been cooperating throughout the game is a fabrication. We have had almost no interactions, and even those that have occurred have been mostly contentious or sniping at comments each other have made. There has been almost no cooperation of any kind until I asked Andres for his opinion, and he didn't even respond to that. This is a nice attempt a revisionist history though.

Also, for the record for anyone who cares, I am going to continue the same voting pattern I have been using for several days now. I am going after the people who were active during the extremely inactive day phase. That list has now been reduced to myself, White_Eyes, and Gaius Scribonius Curio. Thus, I will be voting for WE or Gaius next round. WE is my current preference due to his eagerness to distort what has actually happened in this game.

[Andres]

Why am I the most important lynch target?

ATPG's case against TinCow is rubbish. That doesn't mean TinCow is innocent, I have my doubts about TC, but ATPG's case is rubbish.

Look at the beginning of the game, the round in which ATPG got lynched. I for one am not inclined to follow his lead.

I strongly advice town not to listen too much to ATPG.

[GeneralHankerchief]

ATPG, after seeing your theories in the past two games, my opinion of your skills as a townie has significantly dropped.

-edit- Don't get me wrong, you could be a mafioso and just are doing your best to manipulate the town. But I know for a fact you're way off-base in Ephesus and am almost positive this is also the case in this game, for the reasons that Andres and TC have described.

[White_eyes:D]

Uh, you'll recall that Andres went after ME during that whole paranoia phase and it was GH who was defending me, not me defending Andres. Nice try though. This very idea that Andres and I have been cooperating throughout the game is a fabrication. We have had almost no interactions, and even those that have occurred have been mostly contentious or sniping at comments each other have made. There has been almost no cooperation of any kind until I asked Andres for his opinion, and he didn't even respond to that. This is a nice attempt a revisionist history though.

Also, for the record for anyone who cares, I am going to continue the same voting pattern I have been using for several days now. I am going after the people who were active during the extremely inactive day phase. That list has now been reduced to myself, White_Eyes, and Gaius Scribonius Curio. Thus, I will be voting for WE or Gaius next round. WE is my current preference due to his eagerness to distort what has actually happened in this game.

Nah.....just kill me tonight with your GOOD buddy Andres...:bounce:

[Beefy187]

Ignore me if you want but, let us not discuss during the night phase. I don't want mafia being enlighten about who to leave and who to kill

[White_eyes:D]

Ignore me if you want but, let us not discuss during the night phase. I don't want mafia being enlighten about who to leave and who to kill

It has to be TWO people.......and clearly I will be left alive at the end of the day.....if not TinCow and Andre's Mafia group will not have a scapegoat....:shame:

[Beefy187]

Your not the only lucky bastard White_eyes. I was chosen to be left alive along with two others. The feeling you get when you get the wrong one lynched is just priceless...

oh and being left alive for scapegoating. They always do that to me.

[Lord Winter]

It has to be TWO people.......and clearly I will be left alive at the end of the day.....if not TinCow and Andre's Mafia group will not have a scapegoat....:shame:

Pretty certain there?

[Beefy187]

Pretty certain there?

He did the same thing in Full Monty mafia. And in that game, he was a protownish townie.

[White_eyes:D]

He did the same thing in Full Monty mafia. And in that game, he was a protownish townie.
Yeah, whooped teveshstat with that Bluff:eyebrows:

[TevashSzat]

Yeah, whooped teveshstat with that Bluff:eyebrows:

Umm...I may not be thinking clearly atm, but what does I have to do with what you just said???

[seireikhaan]

Gaius Scribonius Curio felt that the safest place in town was at home. He locked all doors and made sure the windows were secured. He felt tired and wanted to sleep, but his nerves were raw from fear of getting nailed by the mafia. He would never be able to sleep in his condition and went to take a shower to possibly soothe his shaking frame with some warmth.
The shower was indeed soothing and all thoughts of dying and silenced guns vanished down the drain with the soapy water.
He never heard the smash of a breaking window or the silent footfalls in the stairs.
A man with a perfectly balanced fedora and a trench coat entered the bathroom where Gaius stood behind the shower curtains, letting warm soothing water splash over his now calm body.
The man stood there, gun in hand and seemed to consider something. There was a single light from a lamp above the mirror. He turned and went down to the kitchen and opened drawers until he found what he was looking for. The man with the fedora went back up to the bathroom where Gaius was still soothing in the shower. Gaius did not notice the man standing just outside the shower curtains. The noise from the water blocked the sound of footsteps and he kept his eyes closed. When the man with the fedora saw no response from putting the shadow of a long butcher knife on the shower curtain, he started to make a sound. “WEEEEEEE, WEEEEEE, WEEEEEEE”. Gaius, reacting to the sound, opened his eyes and saw the knife shadow on the curtain. His heart collapsed from fear and he slumped to the floor, tearing down the shower curtains in the fall. The man in the fedora looked disappointed and took out his silenced gun and popped 4 bullets into Gaius’ unconscious body for good measure. The man in the fedora walked to the mirror and checked the fedora. Perfect balanced as always. He pointed at himself in the mirror and smiled before vacating the house of a dead man.



Reen Roink was walking his dog down the street, enjoying all the new Christmas lights that had been put up. He was too engulfed with the Christmas lights to notice the red dot on his chest. Luckily there was someone there to point it out too him.
He heard someone screaming "Reenk, Watch Out! There is a red dot on your chest! It’s the Sniper!!!"

The man threw Reenk Roink what appeared to be a bulletproof vest, and he put it on without much thought. Not noticing that it was a vest covered with C-4 explosives!

It was too late to take off the vest though, the button was pushed, and Reenk Roink went KABLOOEE!
A laser pointer and a fedora was found at the scene of the crime...



Alive: 10

Andres
Beefy
Boudica
Caius
Lord Winter
Sigurd
Taka
TevashSzat
TinCow
White_Eyes


Dead: 10
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Glyphz (N3)
QuintusJC (N4)
Shlin28 (N4)
Gaius Scribonius Curio (N5)
Reenk Roink (N5)

Lynched: 4

Chaotix (D1)
Askthepizzaguy (D2)
Ares777 (D3)
LittleGrizzly (D4)

Suicide: 1

Hooahguy (D2)

WoK: 3

Sarathos (D3)
Warluster (D4)
Warman (D4)


Day round begins! PLEASE KEEP THE TALLY!

WoK BAIT THIS ROUND IF THEY DO NOT VOTE: BOUDICA, CAIUS, SIGURD

[TinCow]

Yeesh, well Gaius' death makes my decision pretty simple. White_Eyes and I are the only people left alive who voted on Day 3.

Vote: White_Eyes

[White_eyes:D]

Reen Roink was walking his dog down the street, enjoying all the new Christmas lights that had been put up. He was too engulfed with the Christmas lights to notice the red dot on his chest. Luckily there was someone there to point it out too him.
He heard someone screaming "Reenk, Watch Out! There is a red dot on your chest! It’s the Sniper!!!"

The man threw Reenk Roink what appeared to be a bulletproof vest, and he put it on without much thought. Not noticing that it was a vest covered with C-4 explosives!

It was too late to take off the vest though, the button was pushed, and Reenk Roink went KABLOOEE!
A laser pointer and a fedora was found at the scene of the crime...
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I almost died laughing........I have been so FRAMED....that I will do the TinCow-Andres Mafia's a favor and Vote:White_eyes:D

[TinCow]

Hrm... that actually was a bit blatant, wasn't it. Are you clever enough to intentionally make a poor job of framing yourself? Excellent WIFOM situation, whoever did it. I must ponder this and don't want to prejudice the voting while I am doing so.

Unvote: White_Eyes
Vote: Abstain

[White_eyes:D]

Hrm... that actually was a bit blatant, wasn't it. Are you clever enough to intentionally make a poor job of framing yourself? Excellent WIFOM situation, whoever did it. I must ponder this and don't want to prejudice the voting while I am doing so.

Unvote: White_Eyes
Vote: Abstain

Oh sure.....you take your vote off now.....afraid town will become active enough to oppose you and Andres??:whip:

[Beefy187]

This mafia never ceases to amuse me :laugh4:

Kudos to you! However, you do have to be lynched fairly soon. :smash:

[White_eyes:D]

Then vote for me......I tried to make town more active but messed up when I went and accused Reenk too much.:no:

I am happy that I helped but I am afraid that I can't win against TinCow and his Cold and Calculated Mafia reasoning.....:shame:

[Lord Winter]

Then vote for me......I tried to make town more active but messed up when I went and accused Reenk too much.:no:

I am happy that I helped but I am afraid that I can't win against TinCow and his Cold and Calculated Mafia reasoning.....:shame:

:inquisitive:

That wasn't even directed at you.

Vote: White_eyes

[White_eyes:D]

:inquisitive:

That wasn't even directed at you.

Vote: White_eyes

Big Surprise.....I get voted for rather then TinCow or Andres.....I feel like town has gotten lazy....:wall: and WHAT IS Lord Winter talking ABOUT?:confused:

Tally
White_eyes:D: 2 (White_eyes:D, Lord Winter)
Abstain: 1 (TinCow)
Not Voting:Quite a bit.....

[taka]

first, the write-up
a very mixed write-up, either that mafia have learnt to copy parts of khaan's style, or khaan's changed his style slightly :S
the psycho movie kill does not fit into the pattern of khaan's write-up so far. also no mention of what gun was used unlike previous write-ups. however the format of text is very khaan like.
Reenk's death is not an exact copy of the original, as towards the end a fedora was "found at the scene"

i dont know whether theres any significant conclusions we can draw from the write-up at this point, but i'm still going to assume that we have one mafia left in the game as there is still no mention of a 2nd mafia.

so if the mafia is still wearing a fedora next round i'd be suspicious :P


secondly, white eyes, unvote your self and dont be silly
out of the two, i get a feeling tincow is more mafia than white eyes.


Yeesh, well Gaius' death makes my decision pretty simple. White_Eyes and I are the only people left alive who voted on Day 3.

the way tincow acts gives me a weird vibe and i get a gut feeling that tincow is more suspicious. not hardore evidence but
vote: tincow

[White_eyes:D]

secondly, white eyes, unvote your self and dont be silly
out of the two, i get a feeling tincow is more mafia than white eyes.
the way tincow acts gives me a weird vibe and i get a gut feeling that tincow is more suspicious. not hardore evidence but
vote: tincow
Finally, A voice of reason in this dark and cold place.:beam:...Unvote:White_eyes:D Vote:TinCow but still....Lord Winter was quick to jump on me wasn't he???:inquisitive:

Edit: I am just guessing but does a 'fedora' have anything to do with Andres?

[Lord Winter]

I thought you were responding to beefys post, correct me if I'm wrong.

[White_eyes:D]

I thought you were responding to beefys post, correct me if I'm wrong.

??? Yes and no.....Beefy was talking about how WIFOM this looked and that I must be Lynched in order to be safe.....right?....I have no idea who he was directing it at though.....I am not Beefy after all:book:

[Lord Winter]

This mafia never ceases to amuse me :laugh4:

Kudos to you! However, you do have to be lynched fairly soon. :smash:

i interpreted it as simply being amused at the mafia's choice of kill write up. However you interpreted it as a threat. Could that not be considered scummy?

[taka]

Edit: I am just guessing but does a 'fedora' have anything to do with Andres?

why would you say that?

[White_eyes:D]

i interpreted it as simply being amused at the mafia's choice of kill write up. However you interpreted it as a threat. Could that not be considered scummy?

Yeah....I guess.....I really felt like losing it at the time I posted that (I got lynched in a other Mafia game, on the most HORRIBLE reasoning I have ever seen. So I thought "there is WAY more evidence here, so I must be doomed:skull:")*check YLC's Mafia and Ares reasoning behind my lynch on there and you might see why I was acting like that earlier.....:shame:

Edit:I must admit....I have no idea what a 'fedora' is...but I thought maybe Andres would know or has a connection with it....but I would like to avoid lynching people for horrid reasons.....

[taka]

fedora's a hat. i checked on google XD

[White_eyes:D]

fedora's a hat. i checked on google XD

What kind of Hat? Is it Mexican...??? or does it just look cool or something??:beam:

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Yay! Vindicated...

Anyways. I believe LG was the better choice of lynch last round, and based off inconsistencies in the write-up, it could be that we got one. Both kills involved a fedora (my death the man was wearing it, the second it was just there...) but this could be mafia attempting to mess with write-up. I've learnt that in 'classic' games such as this write-ups aren't as much of a help (they are oh so much fun to play with...).

Fedora will have little, if anything to do with Andres.

As to suspects, Tincow is making the point that the mafia should be somewhat active, highlighting the round with very little activity to make his point. Of those that voted, only himself and white eyes are still alive. I feel that this somewhat exonerates him, as to set up a situation where there are so many suspects and there is only himself and one other left alive, seems to be a fairly big mistake. Notice as well that some of the other 'suspects' were killed, not lynched. He could be being framed. However, this is Tincow, the man is unbelievely cunning and excellent at double, or even triple-bluffs. Not my prime suspect though.

That said for White Eyes to put himself in the same position of suspicion, makes little sense either. Little as people may like this, you need to start looking outside of Tincow's theory, as much sense as it may have made earlier on.

I suggest looking at semi-active players, those who haven't voted every round, but have been fairly consistant with their posting. Taka, TevashSzat and Lord Winter fit into this category. ATPG, could you provide your analysis of the times people were online? Yes I know that most people won't trust it, but its all evidence and it could reveal something we have missed.

Would add more, but off to play squash...

Back tomorrow with more opinions.

[Beefy187]

i interpreted it as simply being amused at the mafia's choice of kill write up. However you interpreted it as a threat. Could that not be considered scummy?

Lord Winter is correct. I just thought how funny it is that mafia are killing off people who starts to smell scummy and no it wasn't directed at you White_eyes.

[LittleGrizzly]

Firstly im unsure if TC and/or WE would leave themselves part of an ever shrinking group of suspects, could be an impressive bluff but with the mafia killing Gaius im really starting to question it, that said WE and TC are still big suspects in my eyes

Im going to ignore the WoK bait though im still unsure on boudica...

Andres is another possible suspect, not so much of a case to build but he did seem to be building the case on me for a day or two, genuine suspicion or mafia setting a potential lynch victim up ?

this leaves Beefy, Taka, Lord Winter and Tevash. Out of those 4 taka and LW would be my preferred candidates, gut feeling over anything else... i think that andres tc and we should be looked at before these 4 though...

[Beefy187]

Heres my analysis. Forgive me if I get some details wrong, as I seem to get the scourge and this mafia mixed up.

Firstly I think the mafia is enjoying them selves right now.. Oh the thrill... The confusion.. They are walking on a thin rope. Regardless of countless opinions that the mafias are killing the suspicious players, they did it yet again. If Khaan is indeed hosting a classical mafia, then the setting is 2 mafias and detective. Assuming that one is gone already, who ever is sending out kill orders are confident and they know what he (or she) knows what they are doing. Killing the suspicious is against the very first tactic as mafia, "kill those who seems to be innocent" and it takes courage to do it. Thus why I think the mafia is one of the old vets who won as a mafia at least once and both the alive and the dead mafia are those who are willing to sacrifice the glory of winning, for trying out something new.

They started to make silly moves on night 4, killing Shlin who were starting to act scum, then Gaius and Reenk who were our top favorites for this rounds lynch. Who would do something fancy like this?

TinCow comes in my mind first. The most feared player of GH, Christiano Ronaldo in the world of mafia. I can imagine him killing these way.

The second on the line is Sigurd and Andres. Sigurd, talented mafia player and Andres... Lord of gameroom. Both players has enjoyed plenty of glory and I think they would be willing to do something different. While I don't get much scummy vibes, I was never able to figure out either of them. Hoping that Sigurd gets wogged or builds up a fantastic defense for him self... Andres has to be lynched eventually.

I'm getting plenty of scummy vibes from White_eyes. He openly enjoys being the mafia, otherwise he seems to do some crazy acrobatic moves at the start of the game. I cross my fingers that his not the mafia as his obeying his usual playing style.

I can't really comment on Lord Winter. He recently became a lot more active then he used to be. So I'm not sure about how he normally plays.

Taka seems to be the only one who I can bet my money on being innocent. Tevash usually stays quite regardless of his role so I'm scared.

For now ill

Vote: TinCow

and hoping he ends up being the mafia.

[taka]

Heres my analysis. Forgive me if I get some details wrong, as I seem to get the scourge and this mafia mixed up.

Firstly I think the mafia is enjoying them selves right now.. Oh the thrill... The confusion.. They are walking on a thin rope. Regardless of countless opinions that the mafias are killing the suspicious players, they did it yet again. If Khaan is indeed hosting a classical mafia, then the setting is 2 mafias and detective. Assuming that one is gone already, who ever is sending out kill orders are confident and they know what he (or she) knows what they are doing. Killing the suspicious is against the very first tactic as mafia, "kill those who seems to be innocent" and it takes courage to do it. Thus why I think the mafia is one of the old vets who won as a mafia at least once and both the alive and the dead mafia are those who are willing to sacrifice the glory of winning, for trying out something new.

They started to make silly moves on night 4, killing Shlin who were starting to act scum, then Gaius and Reenk who were our top favorites for this rounds lynch. Who would do something fancy like this?

TinCow comes in my mind first. The most feared player of GH, Christiano Ronaldo in the world of mafia. I can imagine him killing these way.

The second on the line is Sigurd and Andres. Sigurd, talented mafia player and Andres... Lord of gameroom. Both players has enjoyed plenty of glory and I think they would be willing to do something different. While I don't get much scummy vibes, I was never able to figure out either of them. Hoping that Sigurd gets wogged or builds up a fantastic defense for him self... Andres has to be lynched eventually.

I'm getting plenty of scummy vibes from White_eyes. He openly enjoys being the mafia, otherwise he seems to do some crazy acrobatic moves at the start of the game. I cross my fingers that his not the mafia as his obeying his usual playing style.

I can't really comment on Lord Winter. He recently became a lot more active then he used to be. So I'm not sure about how he normally plays.

Taka seems to be the only one who I can bet my money on being innocent. Tevash usually stays quite regardless of his role so I'm scared.

For now ill

Vote: TinCow

and hoping he ends up being the mafia.

best theory yet imo, very good analysis

[Beefy187]

best theory yet imo, very good analysis

Yea im proud of my self. Thanks

...Only until someone pops up and points out all the WIFOMs and flaws though :sweatdrop:

[taka]

there's always gonna be wifom, its just an excuse for people to do/say things

[Andres]

I'm in doubt between taka and TinCow.

Vote : TinCow

I really don't see why it has to be one of the people who voted on day 3.

Also, I wouldn't try to read too much in the write-ups of the kills. Read them for your enjoyment, but for nothing else. In these classic mafia games, the kill write-ups hardly give clues. I know GH sometimes gave a clue, but they were always difficult to catch and when you start looking for clues, you start seeing things just because you want to see them.

Busy right now, maybe I'll have some more time later on to examine taka's posts a bit more closely and to reread the TC's posts that got my attention.

[boudica]

First off - I don't know where ATPG is coming from but his re-introduction to the thread smacked to me of diversory tactics. There are some things about Beefyz analysis that I agreed with (ie. White Eyes :D seems innocent), but over all Beefy has always been most suspicious to me after ATPG. WHile his above analysis seems well observed I think it points at TinCow who I believe has done more for us in this game than anyone else. It's just comments like this that jump off the page:


Andres has to be lynched eventually.


I don't believe Andres is mafia at present, and forgive me if I'm misjudging Beefy as a player - I am relatively new 'tis true - but his analysis smacks of a 'plan' to me:-

vote: 187Beefyz

Tally:

TinCow: 4 (Taka, White Eyes :D, 187Beefyz, Andres)

White Eyes :D: 1 (Lord Winter)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)

Abstain: 1 (TinCow)

[Beefy187]

First off - I don't know where ATPG is coming from but his re-introduction to the thread smacked to me of diversory tactics. There are some things about Beefyz analysis that I agreed with (ie. White Eyes :D seems innocent), but over all Beefy has always been most suspicious to me after ATPG. WHile his above analysis seems well observed I think it points at TinCow who I believe has done more for us in this game than anyone else. It's just comments like this that jump off the page:



I don't believe Andres is mafia at present, and forgive me if I'm misjudging Beefy as a player - I am relatively new 'tis true - but his analysis smacks of a 'plan' to me:-

vote: 187Beefyz

No worries. I'm not used to being praised or being useful. Some criticism and pressure is exactly what I wanted.

EDIT: Read my post again and I smell sarcasm.. Sarcasm is not intended

[TinCow]

That said for White Eyes to put himself in the same position of suspicion, makes little sense either. Little as people may like this, you need to start looking outside of Tincow's theory, as much sense as it may have made earlier on.

Yes, I have realized this has possibly been a dead-end. I have no basis for saying this, but I just don't get the feeling that WE would do a nice WIFOM by intentionally framing himself with that kill description. I'm going to have to back off my accusation of him.

This leaves me at a bit of a loss on who to go after. The only other person I've felt a bit weird about throughout the game has been taka. He's got all the activity signs that tipped me off against LG. For some reason, people seem very divided on him. Some keep FOSing him, some think he's fully innocent. This very dichotomy seems to be evidence that something is wrong with him.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: taka

I realize at this point that I am likely to be lynched. Based on the type of accusations made against me, there's not much I can respond with. I think my actions throughout the game speak for themselves, and if you're not convinced by those there's not much more I can do.

[Reenk Roink]

The Mafia who killed me according to my old writeup are really fooling themselves if they think they did something smart. You basically let White_eyes:D off the hook with such an unsubtle play (though I didn't think he was guilty to begin with). It wasn't "excellent WIFOM" (and honestly I usually ignore any post with the word WIFOM [used as a reason or to imply it's effectiveness, not used to tear it down like I am] because it's such a poor way of playing the game [as a townie]).

Note: There is still the possibility that khaan is responsible for the write up in which case :laugh4: :2thumbsup:.

I do agree with the town that taka (first) and TinCow (second) are the prime suspects. Look how quickly taka jumped to vote me off...

Also last but not least, I was Mafia so I have no idea how I was killed... :inquisitive:

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm starting to have doubts about TC, although he made a really excellent point about taka. taka himself admitted that, while not playing a lot, he's read a ton of games and has lurked. What made him all of a sudden change up in this game?

I'll leave that for you guys to decide. The bulk of my efforts are currently focused on Ephesus, but in a round or two once a few more people die, I'll do a big analysis of this game to help out. Sorry I haven't been of more help already.

[taka]

-> tincow
i think its mostly because people that havent played with me before dont know what my style of play is (i dont really even know myeslf), and so is uncomfortable. i totally understand if u and everyone else thinks im acting/playing weird. if u wanna lynch me then do so, but im a townie, and even beefy thinks so too.

-> reenk
i was gonna vote LG but you went and "pulled a spartan". i think i had a valid reason to vote for you back then... and i wasnt the only one anyway :P

-> GH
im not really sure what you mean by:

What made him all of a sudden change up in this game

is that to me?

Tally:

TinCow: 4 (Taka, White Eyes :D, 187Beefyz, Andres)

White Eyes :D: 1 (Lord Winter)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)
taka: 1 (tincow)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yes.

[taka]

right... so what does it mean? :P

as in im fairly active?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yes.

[taka]

well, ive not really changed from lurking to being really active (i dont think) since playing mafia.

if you're refering to pre-mafia then yea i lurked a lot and didnt join in to play til i read up on quite a few games; but i think after ive started playing i have a fairly healthy amount of activity :)

[Sigurd]

Responding to a friendly reminder that I am making it easy for the Mafia by being WoGed.

Looking at the tally in taka's post, It seems TinCow is the candidate.
I can't seem to make a difference and I need to read a few pages to form an opinion.

vote: Abstain

[TevashSzat]

Like Sigurd, I am ambivalent about who to go after.

I am slightly suspicious of Tincow, but he is already in the lead and my vote will likely do nothing but further guarantee his lynch this round.

I don't find anything about taka that is especially suspicious either so I guess I'll Vote:Abstain and wait a bit.

As for my lurkiness, I do kind of semi keep up with whats going on. I'll chirp in when I have something useful to say, but I rarely do and don't see in the point of posting for the sake of posting

[Reenk Roink]

Sigurd is probably Mafia in this one.

[Beefy187]

taka has proven him self to be useful. He is our main source for noticing hints in the write up. Although that might be mafia tactic. If taka is really right about theres only one mafia left, which can be seen as a mafia tactic to get the town to trust him, I don't think his lying about it. So if lynching TC doesn't end the game, we move on to taka, and possibly others.

10 player left. One lynch, two kill. Two more rounds left. Last round will have four players left. Hopefully that clears up some options for us.

[White_eyes:D]

Well I was wrong about the fedora-Andres connection.....I was thinking all night....where did I see something about a fedora before? Then it hit me in "The Golden Rule Mafia" Woad&Fangs used it to signal his entry into the game as below quote states...Post 24#
:throws fedora into the ring: but afterwards Yoyoma says this....Post 25#
Who are you, Marlin Brando? and his reply.....Post 26#
All quality criminal activity must be accompanied by a fedora. It is what seperates the professionals from the pickpockets, and I sir, am a professional Now it could be one of those players.....but only me and Beefy remain from that game....and Khaan could just be screwing with us:shrug:

[Beefy187]

Well I was wrong about the fedora-Andres connection.....I was thinking all night....where did I see something about a fedora before? Then it hit me in "The Golden Rule Mafia" Woad&Fangs used it to signal his entry into the game as below quote states...Post 24# but afterwards Yoyoma says this....Post 25# and his reply.....Post 26# Now it could be one of those players.....but only me and Beefy remain from that game....and Khaan could just be screwing with us:shrug:

Oh don't even mention Golden Rule... :wall:

I thought I did pretty awesome. Pretty proud of my self and later realized that I've been played the whole time..

I vote for pure coincident. Or a framing from the mafia

EDIT: You forgot Tevash. Our leader and the surviva!

[White_eyes:D]

Oh don't even mention Golden Rule... :wall:

I thought I did pretty awesome. Pretty proud of my self and later realized that I've been played the whole time..

I vote for pure coincident. Or a framing from the mafia

EDIT: You forgot Tevash. Our leader and the surviva!

True....FoS:Tevash.....If me or Beefy die it must be Tevash......since he has been TRYING VERY hard to stay in the "Find no reasons to vote me category" :inquisitive:

[Lord Winter]

Well I was wrong about the fedora-Andres connection.....I was thinking all night....where did I see something about a fedora before? Then it hit me in "The Golden Rule Mafia" Woad&Fangs used it to signal his entry into the game as below quote states...Post 24# but afterwards Yoyoma says this....Post 25# and his reply.....Post 26# Now it could be one of those players.....but only me and Beefy remain from that game....and Khaan could just be screwing with us:shrug:

Utterly irrelevant meatballing, it simply means that khaan is using the mob stereotype.


I'm kind of lost on suspects. At this moment I'm drifting farther and farther from white eyes as a lynch. He seems somewhat normal, pushy yes, but the question is to what degree. Basically each round White_eyes has been driving forward a lynch, frequently starting bandwagons, as even he will testify to.

My other suspects is Andres, he's been lurking recently, probably because of Ephesus, but Ephesus isn't enough to confirm innocence. The biggest sample of his behavior that we have to look at is in N2. After starting out with why isn't there giant band wagon joke post, he seems to overreact to many of the replys. In the end Ask the Pizzaguy's crazed antics save him from a building bandwagon. After that he fades in to the background.

I don't like the lack of info that we have about Taka and Tevesh. Taka esspicly has drawn suspision in earlier rounds. The other thing to note is the change in activity throughout the game. Both of them need more pressure on them.

I'm also not getting much of guilty read on TC. He's put massive effort in over at euphues and I can't see him running an effective mafia here.

[taka]

looking back on the list, im quite surprised that caius is still on the list, i dont think ive seen him post lol, well very little anyway.

but who im actually quite very suspicious of tho is sigurd

he would be Wok'd this round if he doesnt vote, and "surprise". he's voted. and abstained.

trying to keep a low profile sigurd??

guys, how about we look into sigurd?

i'm willing to let tincow off the hook for a deeper look into sigurd

unvote: Tincow
vote: sigurd

edit:


Sigurd is probably Mafia in this one.

you think so too huh?

[Beefy187]

Well right now we got more then 2 suspects. In fact, pretty much every single player left is a suspect.

Yes we should poke everyone, but we have to start considering to take the minimum risk at possible, lynching the most likely suspect rather then making everyone a suspect.

[Lord Winter]

Going from my logic before,

Unvote: White_eyes
Vote: Teveshszat

At this point in the game we can't afford to have people staying nuetral. If you had to chose one person to vote for who and why? More general thoughts, rebutals to opinons out there, anything?

This is a preasure vote.

[seireikhaan]

Nerves were running high in Cicero. People were dropping left and right. Some thug or thugs were still running around slaying people every night. When the voting to lynch a killer finished, TinCow was left with the most votes.A few townspeople forced him to his knees in front of Chief Vonken. Vonken had been awaiting the final vote, this time with a logger's axe instead of his pistol. Given the recent unfortunate events involving his pistol, Vonken decided an axe would result in less collateral damage. The townspeople forced TinCow's neck to bare. Vonken reached the axe back with great force. Unfortunately, the Chief didn't know his own strenght, nor the reliability of the local carpenter. The axe head flew off the handel, spinning backwards. An unaware Caius was struck in the face by the blade, slicing his skull in half. "GAH! Screw it!" Chief Vonken declared. He pulled the pistol from his jacket and blasted a hole right in the back of TinCow's skull. "Alright, people, come on! I fear we have not long! The killings haven't stopped, and we are nearing the brink! Please be awares this night, be safe and happy!"


TinCow: 3 (White Eyes :D, 187Beefyz, Andres)
Taka: 1 (TinCow
TevashSzat: 1 (Lord Winter)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)
Sigurd: 1 (Taka)

Abstain: 1 (Sigurd)



Alive: 8

Andres
Beefy
Boudica
Lord Winter
Sigurd
Taka
TevashSzat
White_Eyes


Dead: 10
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Glyphz (N3)
QuintusJC (N4)
Shlin28 (N4)
Gaius Scribonius Curio (N5)
Reenk Roink (N5)

Lynched: 5

Chaotix (D1)
Askthepizzaguy (D2)
Ares777 (D3)
LittleGrizzly (D4)
TinCow (D5)

Suicide: 1

Hooahguy (D2)

WoK: 4

Sarathos (D3)
Warluster (D4)
Warman (D4)
Caius (D5)


Night has begun! Please send me orders within 24 hours!

[Lord Winter]

2 more lynches.


For the record I will not be able to get on for any reasonable amount of time tommarow, so you are forwarrened. Don't lynch me when I don't say much.

[Beefy187]

I doubt that ill be active from 23-31st

Be notified.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If night ends while I am still here, I will reveal my next most likely suspects.

I believe TinCow was an excellent lynch choice, and I believe Andres voted him just to make himself look innocent.

But will reconsider. And if Andres is innocent, me suspecting him might do wonders for keeping him alive.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Eight left alive, at least one is mafia. I feel at this stage it is unlikely to be a lurker, although Sigurd appeared quite suddenly to remain in the game. Personally I'm inclined to believe that he was responding to a 'friendly reminder' rather exercising some cunning plan, not completely though...

Andres, Lord Winter and TevashSzat really leap out of the list of remaining players as suspects. Andres hasn't done a whole lot that seems to be too suspicious, but the aura of skill that accompanies him, means we can't afford to take an eye off him. TevashSzat seems to be a little under the radar, posting enough to not be WoK-bait, but not enough to be considered a regular contributor. Ambivalent is not healthy state of mind for a townie at this stage...

Can't remember what it was about Lord Winter that had me suspicious at this time, I'll have to get back to you...

And White-Eyes, the Fedora is just a stereotype, as W&F said, 'no quality criminal activity can be unaccompanied by a fedora.'

[Askthepizzaguy]

Take a look at their voting pattern.

If they were close to, or were, the deciding vote on a lynch which did not reduce the amount of mafia, and never were part of a lynch that reduced mafia, then their votes were all bad.

The more blood on their hands, the more scummy they are. Let's compare everyone who is still alive by their votes and posting habits, and see exactly how poor some players have been for town's survival.

Andres leaps off the page in terms of bad or ineffective townie. I don't trust his vote of TinCow to be anything but self-defense. Will reconsider if more evidence comes forward. The others... oh, the others... I have my analysis of their patterns and votes. Up to mafia to guess who I think stinks.

[Andres]

If they were close to, or were, the deciding vote on a lynch which did not reduce the amount of mafia, and never were part of a lynch that reduced mafia, then their votes were all bad.

Please, tell us ATPG, which one of the persons who got lynched was mafia and explain to us why you are so sure about it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So far there's no evidence any of them were mafia, unless I am mistaken.

I pray thee prove me mistaken, because I am getting burnt out.

Still 2 kills per night. I didn't see evidence we got a mafia yet.

[Andres]

So far there's no evidence any of them were mafia, unless I am mistaken.

So, everybody who voted a person who got lynched is a suspect? And those who voted most for a person who got eventually lynched, is a prime suspect?

What a way to encourage townies to stick out their neck and to actively look for scum .

I think you are a lynched mafioso trying to manipulate town.

Enjoy being ignored in this game from now on, dirty scumbag.

EDIT:


Still 2 kills per night. I didn't see evidence we got a mafia yet.
-->

GH-style mafia game

= mafia always has two kills, even if there's only 1 mafioso left. As somebody who has studied and read most of the previous games in the GR, you should know that. You're definitely scum in my book now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh Andres, you are a better player than THIS!


You're a veteran, and I've demonstrated that I'm not a total buffoon to you already. You know why.

You won't even CONSIDER my analysis, and you NEVER have. Should I quote you? "Keep digging that grave" or words to that effect? If you gave a flying pig's droppings about town, you'd do better than being dismissive and ignoring me, of all people.

If I am such a threat to town, so be it, but the fact is you have been totally worthless to town so far, misleading them all the way. The fact that a mafia would keep you alive this late in the game... and the fact that you've been less helpful or accurate than normal for you...

You're scum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

= mafia always has two kills, even if there's only 1 mafioso left. As somebody who has studied and read most of the previous games in the GR, you should know that. You're definitely scum in my book now.


That's the flimsiest evidence I've ever seen you use to accuse someone of being scum.

If you're a townie in this game, you should be ashamed and appalled.

[Andres]

I never claimed to be an excellent player. I've been wrong on many, many occasions. I'm not an outstanding mafioso and at best a helpfull townie.

And today, I sincerely believe you, Askthepizzaguy, are a lynched mafioso trying to manipulate town.

Your little duel with TinCow at the beginning of the game, seemed utterly ridiculous to me. I could have understand if you ended that round revealing as the detective, but you didn't.

If you indeed were the detective, you would have done a last minute reveal. But you didn't. And your case against TinCow back then was the weirdest I've ever seen. That's mafo behaviour and you got rightfully lynched for it.

And just now, you pretended that you didn't know that mafia always has 2 kills in a classic GH-style game, even when down to one mafioso. That's something I refuse to accept, as you have claimed yourself that you have read many, many (if not all) previous gamethreads.

There are 8 players alive. 6 tomorrow if we still have a mafioso left.

In a worst case scenario (both mafiosi still alive), we have to pick the right one tomorrow, no more room for mistakes.

You have been constantly haunting me through this game for no good reason, in the meanwhile letting other players easily slip under the radar. Now, you are again trying to focus all the attention on me.

But I'm a townie. I know that. And the last thing I want, is wasting our time focusing on me, a townie.

You have been erratic and your cases have never been clear. I think one could best describe your cases as "vague and misty", pretending like you know something us mere, mortal townies don't. You have been trying to manipulate town and directing attention to where you want it to be ever since you were lynched.

Sorry, ATPG, this is not personal, but I've had enough of your attention. Tomorrow, there will be 6 players alive. If I'm among them, please town, do not keep focusing on me.

It would be very silly to waste our last chance because of laziness.

Everybody still alive tomorrow will be a suspect and should be examined.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I believe it's not personal, Andres. It never has been.

But you're entirely closed minded about me, and ONLY in this game. You quickly judged me and never once gave me a fair shake.

If you believe I am a mafia after all I went through to drag down TinCow, offering my life in the process, and GETTING LYNCHED right off the bat, on the highly risky chance my supposed partner could win the game by himself, you're absolutely crazy.

No wait, I take that back, you're not crazy. Everything you've done is a calculated thing. You're not a dummy at all, and you're not incompetent, and you're NOT irrational. Your behavior however corresponds to a cornered mafioso. You couldn't get me lynched fast enough. You can't dismiss my arguments fast enough. You can't ignore me loud enough.

Just poke your fingers in your ears, bury your head in the sand, and scream "LA LA LA" because that's what it will take to make me go away. If you were even a shred of a townie, you'd look at your behavior all game and conclude as I have that you aren't hitting the mark, haven't been your usual helpful self, and have blatantly ignored potential scumbags, all for the purposes of survival.

You have no defense against what I have to say except dismissing and ignoring me. That doesn't cut it. You know better, you can do better.


I understand why everyone bandwagonned me, I hold no grudges. HAD YOU ANY POSITIVE RESULTS from your efforts since then, I'd consider you maybe a good townie. But you're not. You're a living veteran who isn't trying his best and cannot lynch a mafia. You're ignoring someone you know to have good instincts and a LOGICAL method of deduction. Your defenses are nonexistant and your excuses are tiresome.

Town, I know you grow weary of hearing me talk. But look at Andres. Critically.

[Andres]

If you believe I am a mafia after all I went through to drag down TinCow, offering my life in the process, and GETTING LYNCHED right off the bat, on the highly risky chance my supposed partner could win the game by himself, you're absolutely crazy.

I don't think it was your intention to get lynched. I think it was your intentin to get TinCow lynched. But instead of making a decent case, you started rambling and making nonsensic arguments like
- "he must be guilty, because he doesn't ask to be investigated";
- "he must be guilty because he doesn't want to be lynched" or, even
- "he must be guilty because... well because I, ATPG, say so!" (not backed up with a detective reveal).


No wait, I take that back, you're not crazy. Everything you've done is a calculated thing. You're not a dummy at all, and you're not incompetent, and you're NOT irrational.

I have done dumb and irrational things in mafia games before :shrug:


Your behavior however corresponds to a cornered mafioso.

It does? Well, if that were true, I think I'm doing a heck of a job, because I surely sound pro-town to me.


You couldn't get me lynched fast enough.

Indeed. Because I sincerely thought you were a) a nuisance; b) very likely mafia.


You can't dismiss my arguments fast enough.

Make better arguments.


You can't ignore me loud enough.

If you keep insisting, I might start to ignore you silently.


Just poke your fingers in your ears, bury your head in the sand, and scream "LA LA LA" because that's what it will take to make me go away.

Really? So you will continue trying to manipulate the town and focusing all their attention to me, in the meanwhile letting 5 other suspects slip under the radar?


If you were even a shred of a townie, you'd look at your behavior all game and conclude as I have that you aren't hitting the mark, haven't been your usual helpful self, and have blatantly ignored potential scumbags, all for the purposes of survival.

Considering the circumstances (hosting Ephesus and playing three mafia games at the same time), I think I've contributed more than my share.


Blahblahblah

I would be very interested to see your analysis of all players still alive.

[Askthepizzaguy]

In response to your point (YEAH I actually respond to my fellow orgah's points... IMAGINE THAT! :laugh4:)


I only analyzed ONE of GH's games. That's a fact I may not have been fully aware of, and I make mistakes too. I have, plenty of times. But I've also been right a lot. And in this game, you've been wrong a lot.

I am mortal. And so quickly grasping at straws to discredit me is not your style Andres. Why are you so frightened? Why are you so stubborn? Why are you so quick to judge and dismiss? What have YOU done for town lately?

[Andres]

1) Will you post an analysis of all players still alive?

Yes or no, please.

2) Will you just keep focusing all attention on me, in the meanwhile allowing others to slip under the radar?

Yes or no, please.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes. In response to the first, yes, I would. I doubt you'd seriously consider it, but on the off-chance you're still a townie, yes, I would.


No. In response to the second, had we a better suspect, you better believe I'd be crawling down their throat with a flashlight.
Edit: rephrased: No, I won't just go after you.


It is night phase, and I will not be posting who I think is innocent for the mafia to murder.

[Beefy187]

Can you not do discussions during night? Discuss via pms or during the day. Your doing no good but giving the mafia more chance to act all good and innocent

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am dead. I cannot do discussions in Private Message. And this is the PERFECT time to discuss things without messing up the way people vote.

I'd love to drag Andres into a corner and work this out like reasonable gentlemen, but! It's against the rules. And I've basically said what I came here to say, until day starts.

[Askthepizzaguy]

- "he must be guilty, because he doesn't ask to be investigated";
- "he must be guilty because he doesn't want to be lynched" or, even
- "he must be guilty because... well because I, ATPG, say so!" (not backed up with a detective reveal).


Blatantly twisting my words. This is not what I said. If you ignore my actual arguments and focus on imagined ones, why should I quote:


Make better arguments.

Explain this one to me Andres.

If you are going to put words in my mouth and ignore my actual case (you wouldn't touch my HUGE explanation post after I was lynched with a ten-foot pole, because the reasoning there is more than solid, and you can't be bothered) then why should I have to convince anyone with a better case?

You can't handle the one I am already making. And if it were such a bad case, you could safely ignore it. The way you're so hyper-defensive whenever I show up, especially when my arguments are so "bad"... it's so telling.


Since you won't actually do the hard work of debating with me, because you have no leg to stand on, how could anyone assume you're anything but mafia?


I am NOT single minded about this. If you could demonstrate somehow that you were town, either through your actions, arguments, or with some kind of proof, I'd immediately reverse my decision and shutty the heck up! But you haven't bothered to convince me I'm wrong. You haven't begun to make a real defense. You haven't proven your case to me, and town may want better answers.

All I want is better answers. Come up with some, or concede you can't defend yourself.

[Beefy187]

I am dead. I cannot do discussions in Private Message. And this is the PERFECT time to discuss things without messing up the way people vote.

I'd love to drag Andres into a corner and work this out like reasonable gentlemen, but! It's against the rules. And I've basically said what I came here to say, until day starts.

fair enough

[Andres]

blahblahblah


Well, it wasn't my intent of twisting your words, but that what was what I made from your several kilometers long posts.

Maybe, for future reference, keep it short and to the point. Many of your posts have been nothing more than repeating the same over and over again.

To me: Quality > quantity.

If town is going to lynch me because you said more "Andres is scum" than I said "ATPG is scum", well, so be it :shrug:


All I want is better answers. Come up with some, or concede you can't defend yourself.

I've defended myself the best I could and I'm getting tired of it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Andres


I will be working on shortening my arguments. No one really listens to walls of text. It's sad... dedication to the game is almost punished that way.


I did keep everything here short and sweet enough for most people to follow, and within an acceptable length similar to other player's posts. So that argument doesn't fly with me at this point.

If you're tired of defending yourself, I have to question why; I haven't seen a real defense. I've seen defensiveness, and attempts to discredit me, and perhaps honest disagreement at best. But no defense.

Since you wish this debate to end, we shall end it, as per your request, with my suspicions unresolved. Fair enough.

[taka]

If you're tired of defending yourself, I have to question why; I haven't seen a real defense. I've seen defensiveness, and attempts to discredit me, and perhaps honest disagreement at best. But no defense.


i've been keeping tabs on this discussion and i must agree with the above

[Askthepizzaguy]

Posty posty posty post....

Thanks for your support, Taka. Assuming everyone arrives at their own conclusions (ie examine everything yourself, be skeptical of both sides of an argument) and you don't blame everything on me if I happen to be wrong (it DOES happen often enough to be bothersome) then I welcome any and all support.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I doubt that ill be active from 23-31st

Be notified.

Notice; he says specifically that he doubts that he'll be active. And no reason given. I understand it's none of our business, but you're one of my top suspects.

Giving us an excuse for not being here as we cross the finish line? Perhaps in the hopes we might not cruelly vote someone who is "inactive"? Since you don't expect to be here to help, but might be here to finish us off, I would request you suicide. But you can't suicide in this game, can you?


You may only commit suicide if you are absolutely unable to continue participation. I do not allow suicides for any other reason.

If you will be physically unable to get here, Beefy, this is legitimate cause for suiciding. Please do so if you won't be here, because you cannot vote or discuss and are therefore useless to town except as a warm body... potentially a warm mafia body.

If I have misinterpreted the letter or spirit of this rule, Seireikhaan will let us know.




But this is my opinion and my request. Your decision, and town can decide whether it's better or worse for them. I don't believe you'd agree to the suicide anyway, it may be moot. But if you cannot vote...

[Andres]

If you will be physically unable to get here, Beefy, this is legitimate cause for suiciding. Please do so if you won't be here, because you cannot vote or discuss and are therefore useless to town except as a warm body... potentially a warm mafia body.


ATPG, you are sooo very scummy:

187Beefyz, please do not suicide.

Reason:

Right now: 8 players alive

If 187Beefyz suicides, mafia wins in worst case scenario:


1) tonight: 2 die + 1 suicide
--> tomorrow: 5 left, worst case: 2 mafiosi among those 5
2) tomorrow: lynch 1 mafioso
--> 3 left alive
3) night: 2 kills
--> next day: 1 mafia left -> mafia win.

If Beefy stays alive:

We go to 6 -> lynch 1 mafia -> 5 -> 2 die at night -> 3 left, one of them mafia -> lynch 1 mafia -> town victory!

I URGE ALL TOWNIES TO IGNORE ASKTHEPIZZAGUY. HE IS SCUM TRYING TO MANIPULATE AND MISLEAD YOU.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I thought you were going to ignore me Andres?

Or is it the case that you're allowed to post rebuttals whenever I post, but you don't need to read or respond to my accusations properly?

I am fully and intimately aware of the consequences of a potential Beefy suicide. There isn't a realistic chance in Hades that he will do so. And the fact that you'd come out of your cone of silence to beg Beefy not to do so suggests that he IS your partner and you're defending him, as he has you.



And by the way Andres, I believe town can decide on their own whether what I say has merit or not. But I have just basically goaded you into desperately defending Beefy. He can defend himself. Town can decide for themselves. And as such, they can read your post and consider it.

I am not intolerant of your opposing viewpoint, as you are of mine.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh, and flaw in your logic, master Andres:


If I am scum, there ARE NOT 2 MAFIA LEFT.


Taaa daaaa!!!!

[Andres]

ATPG, you tried to convince Beefy to give victory to the mafia.

Yes, I will ignore you, because by asking Beefy to suicide you proved that you have NOT the towns' interest at heart. You clearly want the town to lose.

I don't have to answer to any of your accusations, because you're scum.

Why should Beefy have to commit suicide? We have two days left at best, so he won't get WoG'ed. Let your mafia partner do the dirty work.

I was not "defending Beefy", I was pointing out that you were basically asking for a mafia victory, ergo you have to be scum, ergo you should be ignored by the townies.

[Andres]

Oh, and flaw in your logic, master Andres:


If I am scum, there ARE NOT 2 MAFIA LEFT.


Taaa daaaa!!!!

Our odds are still better with 6 alive instead of 5.

With 6 alive and only 1 mafia, we have two chances, with 5 alive and only 1 mafia, only one.

6 alive, 1 mafia
-> 1 wrong lynch
5 alive, 1 mafia
-> two kills
3 alive, 1 mafia -> a second opportunity with a 1/3 chance of being correct.

vs.

5 alive, 1 mafia
-> 1 wrong lynch (with a 1/5 chance of being correct)
4 alive, 1 mafia
-> 2 kills
2 alive, one is mafia -> 1 mafia vs. 1 town => mafia wins.

So far for your "Taaa daaaa".

It is NOT in the towns' interest to have Beefy suicide himself.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Beefy will not suicide. Seriously, Andres, I cannot believe you think he would.


But the mere thought of it frightened the bejeezus out of you, and in spite of any honest disagreement we might have, it's also a fact that if Beefy is giving excuses not to be here, he could be giving an excuse to bow out of the final discussion, and after all... what cold hearted player would lynch someone who had to leave for RL issues?

He won't be adding to our efforts, and he won't be voting, and he defended you scummily. He has evidence up the wazoo that he's a bad townie or worse, a good mafia. We don't need him!


He won't be suiciding. But if you felt the need to ask him not to, you've just defended his potential reasons not to do so, unnecessarily.

[Askthepizzaguy]

/It is NOT in the towns' interest to have Beefy suicide himself.

False assumption: Beefy is innocent.

You cannot know that. You're just assuming he is. WHY? That's sloppy play, Andres.

[Andres]

Beefy will not suicide. Seriously, Andres, I cannot believe you think he would.


But the mere thought of it frightened the bejeezus out of you, and in spite of any honest disagreement we might have, it's also a fact that if Beefy is giving excuses not to be here, he could be giving an excuse to bow out of the final discussion, and after all... what cold hearted player would lynch someone who had to leave for RL issues?

He won't be adding to our efforts, and he won't be voting, and he defended you scummily. He has evidence up the wazoo that he's a bad townie or worse, a good mafia. We don't need him!


He won't be suiciding. But if you felt the need to ask him not to, you've just defended his potential reasons not to do so, unnecessarily.

What you proposed was to give the mafia a victory. I cannot see how that matches with you being townie.

[Andres]

False assumption: Beefy is innocent.

You cannot know that. You're just assuming he is. WHY? That's sloppy play, Andres.

5/6 he's innocent, 1/6 he's guilty.

+ better odds with 6 alive instead of 5.

It's not sloppy play.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I wanted to provoke a reaction from Beefy, which would be that he would refuse to suicide, whether he's townie or mafia.


If he agreed to go through with it, I'd assume he was town and I'd ask him to stop/take it back.


But instead, I provoked you into a hasty defense of a player with no proven innocence or guilt. And it's not necessary. As I've explained, players can defend themselves. Why you would feel the need to defend him is beyond me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Through your own words and actions, Andres, it has been established that you consider me your mortal enemy, the greatest threat standing between you and victory. You cannot ignore me, even though you claim to be trying to.

You are running scared. The more you talk, the more I prosecute. If you're townie, do me a favor and stop provoking such prosecution!

You're acting far too nervous. Every other townie here is just sitting here watching you implode.

[Andres]

I wanted to provoke a reaction from Beefy, which would be that he would refuse to suicide, whether he's townie or mafia.


If he agreed to go through with it, I'd assume he was town and I'd ask him to stop/take it back.


But instead, I provoked you into a hasty defense of a player with no proven innocence or guilt. And it's not necessary. As I've explained, players can defend themselves. Why you would feel the need to defend him is beyond me.

I disagree.

I saw you trying to persuade a player to give victory away to the mafia.

Read my previous posts and you will have to admit that having Beefy suicide was dangerous, if not disastrous, for the town.

You assumed Beefy would not suicide, but that's playing with fire.

It would have been perfectly possible that Beefy would have asked for his suicide, sincerely believing it would make it easier for town, convinced by your argument.

You are playing with our fate, Mister Askthepizzaguy and I kindly ask you to stop bringing the town in danger.

Also, saying that I was defending Beefy is nonsense. I don't want him to commit suicide, because

1) a) it's dangerous for town; b) on a more personal level: I never liked to see players suicide ;
2) I wanted to point out that you were asking for a mafia victory.

[Andres]

If you're townie, do me a favor and stop provoking such prosecution!


I won't shut up because you ask me to.

You are scum and I provide arguments for the town to ignore your manipulations.

:knight:

[GeneralHankerchief]

*In the afterlife, GH takes out a shotgun and blasts ATPG for good measure.*

ATPG, you just need to realize that as a lynched person, you are not cleared, and thus it makes it that much harder for the town to listen to you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

*In the afterlife, GH takes out a shotgun and blasts ATPG for good measure.*

ATPG, you just need to realize that as a lynched person, you are not cleared, and thus it makes it that much harder for the town to listen to you.

So, by that logic, I shouldn't listen to you?

Kthanksbye!


Hypocritical advice need not be taken. And I fully realize no one needs to listen to me.

I am doing my JOB by contributing, as dead townies should, thank you very much. And I specifically asked that no one blindly trust me. I'm just shining the light on a scumbag while other players rot in their graves. A difference in playing style, one you're free to disagree with.

[taka]

Posty posty posty post....

Thanks for your support, Taka. Assuming everyone arrives at their own conclusions (ie examine everything yourself, be skeptical of both sides of an argument) and you don't blame everything on me if I happen to be wrong (it DOES happen often enough to be bothersome) then I welcome any and all support.

dont worry, i am skeptical of you... i have my reasonings too.

but it was true that andres didnt have a good defense at the time.

i'll carry on reading the last 10 or so post and see

[ULC]

I'm sorry Andres, but your posting has made me suddenly come out of hiding - I had to much on my plate, and now I have nothing for now.

Your logic is terribly flawed, as is your arguments. For one, at this late in the game, if ATPG is scum, then why would he be so blatant in his maneuvers int he late game? Why on earth, if he is scum, you do not go on the attack and assault each of his points, then proceed to point at places where ATPG has flaws in his arguments?

Second of all, Beefy could not suicide, so that is a moot point, and your continued insistence on it just smacks of foolishness. He can only suicide if RL where to permit it, not because it would be "helpful" to the town. If you payed attention, you would notice that.

Yet you hammer on that one point, refusing to address the other parts of his argument. I'm convinced your scum, and I am a dead townie, proven fact I am innocent. Now I have questions for you -

1) Why have you done nothing for the town except when questioned, and only have become involved in discussion when provoked?
2) If you truly have the town interests at heart, why have you not encouraged discussion at any level, instead of being content to let the day slip by?

[Andres]

Dead: 10[/U]
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Glyphz (N3)
QuintusJC (N4)
Shlin28 (N4)
Gaius Scribonius Curio (N5)
Reenk Roink (N5)



GeneralHankerchief got killed on N3, he didn't get lynched like you.

ATPG, are you now trying to discredit a confirmed innocent?

[Askthepizzaguy]

GeneralHankerchief got killed on N3, he didn't get lynched like you.

ATPG, are you now trying to discredit a confirmed innocent?

He takes the bait, as I knew he would.

GeneralHankerchief was murdered, yes. I respectfully disagree with his suggestion that I shut up.

And you're grasping at straws here. You cannot defend yourself nor really assault my argument, so you will pick on any error I might make, but NOT touch anything else I do.

It's like fishing in a tiny pond with shrimp as bait. You do leap on every easy opening, but attack none of the harder points.

[Andres]

Your logic is terribly flawed, as is your arguments. For one, at this late in the game, if ATPG is scum, then why would he be so blatant in his maneuvers int he late game? Why on earth, if he is scum, you do not go on the attack and assault each of his points, then proceed to point at places where ATPG has flaws in his arguments?

1) I did point at flaws in his reasoning, please read my posts carefully, don't just read ATPG's :"Andres is not answering me";
2) He is lynched, if he is dead scum, then talking and trying to manipulate the town is exactly what he should do to divert attention away from his buddy by focusing on me; in that light, it is interesting to see how he put a bit of suspicion to taka but does not go further into it. That's exactly what a mafioso would do to help his partner;



Second of all, Beefy could not suicide, so that is a moot point, and your continued insistence on it just smacks of foolishness. He can only suicide if RL where to permit it, not because it would be "helpful" to the town. If you payed attention, you would notice that.
Yet you hammer on that one point, refusing to address the other parts of his argument. I'm convinced your scum, and I am a dead townie, proven fact I am innocent


Beefy said he will be away for a week. That's a RL reason. You are wrong, Beefy can commit suicide.

Also, as I have pointed out, it is not in the towns' interest to see Beefy suiciding. I have good reasons to keep hammering on that point.



. Now I have questions for you -

1) Why have you done nothing for the town except when questioned, and only have become involved in discussion when provoked?
2) If you truly have the town interests at heart, why have you not encouraged discussion at any level, instead of being content to let the day slip by?

1) I did? Didn't I ask for ATPG, LittleGrizzly and TinCow to be lynched? Is trying to warn the town not to listen to scum not helping the town?
2) Ephesus + coincidence RL (work+family) :shrug:

[Andres]

He takes the bait, as I knew he would.

GeneralHankerchief was murdered, yes. I respectfully disagree with his suggestion that I shut up.

And you're grasping at straws here. You cannot defend yourself nor really assault my argument, so you will pick on any error I might make, but NOT touch anything else I do.

It's like fishing in a tiny pond with shrimp as bait. You do leap on every easy opening, but attack none of the harder points.

WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOUR ACCUSATIONS?

Point by point. Clear and simple.

You make error after error and you display behaviour that has not the town's interest at heart. You divert attention away from anything but me. You are either a) dead scum helping his buddy; b) worst townie ever.

Sorry, I had to get that off my chest.

What accusations? Point by point. What's your case against me, because really, I don't see it.

[taka]

ATPG's suggestion of beefy suicide just made me think that he is scum, backing up my theory that there was no mention of 2nd mafia after ATPG's lynch in the write-up.

if he really was townie then he need not and should not even mention about beefy suicide.

i did support ATPG before, when andres was giving shoddy defense, but now i think i can trust andres just a little bit more after his attempt to reason why beefy shoulnt suicide

[Askthepizzaguy]

Harder points: for Andres, sealed with a kiss ~:flirt:

It seems that everyone you voted for that has died has been innocent. I've seen no indications otherwise. You're a veteran player who is contributing the bare minimum in some places, and you only really contribute (as YLC pointed out, and I analyzed before even getting here today) when your buttocks are on the line. You ignored obviously scummy people, such as Tincow, when he did obviously inconsistent things, or contributed in a way unusual for TinCow, i.e. not as helpful as other games.

You post much (73 posts) but most of that is defending yourself, or posting very brief and unhelpful things.

I urge people to look at Andres' contributions.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/search.php?searchid=181596&pp=25&page=3
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/search.php?searchid=181596&pp=25&page=2
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/search.php?searchid=181596&pp=25&page=1

Little posts with smiley faces. Tiny little question posts. Nothing too big or substantive. The only real posts you make are ones defending yourself. Sowing doubts. Acting really low-key. Always discrediting me, always.

You aren't taking the lead in questioning, or doing your own analyses. It's as if this entire game is one big dream to you, and it's shocking you're posting only slightly less than me! Surely after all this time, you would have come up with something by now?

Everyone else has their suspects, who are your suspects, Andres? And WHY do you suspect them? Instead of trying to save your own hide, give us something more pressing to lynch! But that never occurred to you, because you're scum, I accuse.

[Andres]

Something is wrong with the links you posted :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

ATPG's suggestion of beefy suicide just made me think that he is scum, backing up my theory that there was no mention of 2nd mafia after ATPG's lynch in the write-up.

if he really was townie then he need not and should not even mention about beefy suicide.

i did support ATPG before, when andres was giving shoddy defense, but now i think i can trust andres just a little bit more after his attempt to reason why beefy shoulnt suicide

It's about the only reasonable thing he's said all game. But it's also a frightening coincidence that he's defending a scummy looking guy who just defended him up and down, over a totally unlikely threat that will never happen.

And I said I didn't want Beefy to actually suicide, I made that abundantly clear. But I do want him lynched, and mentioning the option provoked Andres into talking more.

I know I sound like a politician sleazing for your vote, taka, but all I am asking you to do is consider what I am saying. Andres would like me to shut up, or for you to ignore me. I've NEVER asked you to ignore him.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Something is wrong with the links you posted :bow:

They work fine on my end.

Simply go to the gameroom, click on the number of posts in this thread, and that brings up "who posted" and their number of posts. Then click on the entry for Andres and the search parameters come up.

Or you can do things the hard way and go hunting through oodles of posts to find his.

[Andres]

Harder points: for Andres, sealed with a kiss ~:flirt:

Finally...


It seems that everyone you voted for that has died has been innocent. I've seen no indications otherwise.

Bollox:
1) there's no way you can be sure that there are 1 or 2 mafia left;
2) having voted to lynch an innocent happens all the time; besides, I wasn't the only one who voted in this game, ergo others have been voting innocents as well, that's not something you can hold against me alone, following that logic would mean everybody is guilty.


You're a veteran player who is contributing the bare minimum in some places, and you only really contribute (as YLC pointed out, and I analyzed before even getting here today) when your buttocks are on the line. You ignored obviously scummy people, such as Tincow, when he did obviously inconsistent things, or contributed in a way unusual for TinCow, i.e. not as helpful as other games.

I explained the timing of my posts in answer to a similar query from YLC:

Ephesus + coincidence RL (work (I'll have to catch up on that tomorrow...)+family)



You post much (73 posts) but most of that is defending yourself, or posting very brief and unhelpful things.

I always post much.


I urge people to look at Andres' contributions.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/search.php?searchid=181596&pp=25&page=3
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/search.php?searchid=181596&pp=25&page=2
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/search.php?searchid=181596&pp=25&page=1

Little posts with smiley faces. Tiny little question posts. Nothing too big or substantive. The only real posts you make are ones defending yourself. Sowing doubts. Acting really low-key. Always discrediting me, always.

No comment, links are not working.


You aren't taking the lead in questioning, or doing your own analyses. It's as if this entire game is one big dream to you, and it's shocking you're posting only slightly less than me! Surely after all this time, you would have come up with something by now?

This is simply not true. I actively tried to have the town lynch LittleGrizzly, TinCow and you.


Everyone else has their suspects, who are your suspects, Andres? And WHY do you suspect them? Instead of trying to save your own hide, give us something more pressing to lynch! But that never occurred to you, because you're scum, I accuse.

Not true again. TinCow, LittleGrizzly and ATPG were suspects. I already mentioned who I suspect from the remaining players, but then again, it's night, so maybe I'm just messing with some mafia minds...

[taka]

i am taking what you said into consideration, but ur a little scummy too u know

weights are about 60:40 for u and andres, atm, but im not discrediting that u cud be scummy and is the other mafia.

i had a discussion about the conversation between you and andres with someone before, and although u did come up with some really good points, i'm not 100% believing your intentions.

[Andres]

They work fine on my end.

Simply go to the gameroom, click on the number of posts in this thread, and that brings up "who posted" and their number of posts. Then click on the entry for Andres and the search parameters come up.

Or you can do things the hard way and go hunting through oodles of posts to find his.

I get vbulletin message:

"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." :shrug:

[Andres]

He takes the bait, as I knew he would.

GeneralHankerchief was murdered, yes.

Took the bait? What bait. I just pointed out (yet another)one of your (many) mistakes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ Taka, nor should you just accept my pure intentions as such.

Leaving aside "bollox" Wine in front of me arguments, consider what it would take for me to be mafia and win this game:


1. Instead of killing Tincow and Andres at night, I elected to die by their hands by KAMIKAZE accusing Tincow for his entirely fabricated and paper-thin reasons for voting for me, and blasting his withered defenses until he cried uncle and simply asked me to shush, as did Andres "you're digging your own grave".

2. I was perfectly content to die without ever killing anyone (as "mafia") so long as you just lynched Tincow. That's all.

REALLY frickin dumb mafia strategy.

3. my two suspects still lived, and none of you were going after them, and they had failed to win the game this late in the game.

4. I arrived and began my renewed assault on their frail excuse for townie posting patterns, and their totally erroneous lynches, and the fact that THEY have controlled the destiny of town by being (taken together) responsible for the deaths of everyone else.

5. They never attacked each other in spite of scummy behavior

6. Still alive, still claiming townie, still not contributing much, still giving the bare minimum

7. I choose now as the time when I come back and urge town to make sure TinCow and Andres are dead before we continue.

8. I cannot prove I am townie, nor will I try. What I can prove is that the game hasn't been won. The kills have not diminished. it IS objectively HIGHLY UNLIKELY that I'd do what I am doing as mafia, given my kamikaze before. Think about it. I can prove two slimey suspects still slither, and still haven't done much of anything for you.

9. I am content to debate Andres until the fires of hell get frozen over, because he is my suspect. I have not lost any debate, and he has not adequately defended his miserable performance.






10. Do as you wish. I am dead. Your destiny is in your hands. READ my post where I explained my kamikaze against TinCow. I am a townie. I am expendable. I EXPENDED MYSELF trying to snag a mafia. If after you read that post, if after you read my arguments, you still don't believe me, that's cool.

When the game is over, I will apologize to either Tincow or Andres, or a bunch of doubters will do so for me. But I refuse to make this about DOOM AND GLOOM or about fear.

This is about reason. I am using reason. I ask you to do the same, for I know you all can. Consider what I have to say, make your own judgments. And watch Andres and Beefy like a hawk.

[Askthepizzaguy]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2109403&postcount=355
Here it is again, in case you missed it. Please read it this time, if you have not.



Hidden in spoilers for your convenience.

Some of you may be wondering exactly what my tirade against TinCow was all about. It was not, as some had thought, out of anger or fear that I might be lynched; I'd been lynched before in other games as mafia and never had such a reaction (1). And I never will, mind you. Quite the contrary, if I were to be lynched, I'd prefer it to be sooner rather than later. As a mafia, it means I don't have to work for 4 weeks on a victory only to die at the finish line, and as a townie it frees me to accuse without fear of death. People must make a decision, whether I am lying or telling the truth, whenever I do something dramatic. I had warned in the Prometheus about the potential dramas that could be presented by a mafioso, such as false reveals and odd roles, however this is not always the case. And contrary to what TinCow thought, I took a very calculated risk and had a clear plan that I thought through before executing.

I had nothing to lose. You need to watch for this, because although I could bluff one day when I have a role, when I am a non-crucial townie, I have a very specific task. That task is to;

a) Try not to be lynched or WOG'ed, as either of these do not help town. To be WOG'ed is acceptible only if I have become WOG bait and haven't been contributing, much like a lurker mafia.
b) Try my best to prevent good townie roles, the power roles, from being lynched or targeted by the mafioso. If I make myself murder bait, or sadly even lynch bait, that's one more turn that the power roles can use to survive. This is ALWAYS good for town.
c) Use whatever means necessary to "throw my weight around" looking for the mafioso, as TinCow had characterized it. This promotes discussion, intimidates the lurkers, prevents mindless bandwagon-ing against people without cause, and calls people out on their bogus arguments.
d) be so suicidal with my life that I actually make a convincing case that I am not anything but a loyal townie ready to give my life at the appropriate moment.

As you already know, I have roughly two strategies for either town or mafia that I use, when the game is basic and simple, and you guys haven't figured out which strategy I use, when. Those are;

1. Supertownie (real)

Trying my best to do all of the above, or bluff all of the above whilst guarding my life with a possible good guy role. Threatening the lurkers, intimidating the non-contributors, encouraging the contributors to comment more, and questioning other supertownies.

This strategy has gotten town very close to victory even under unlikely circumstances like 3 or more scumbags in a smaller game, and immodestly, so far it has always correctly identified the mafia under my watch. (2)

2. Supertownie (fake)

Trying to do the exact same thing in a convincing enough manner, while I am mafia, as indistinguishable in style and tactic as possible. See Prometheus. (3)

____________________________________

The bottom line was, I play high risk style. As a townie without a crucial skill, being careful with my life is pointless. My victory condition does not include being alive. More townies will typically die than mafia in these games, and we all know it. Removing myself from the final line-up early on is good for town no matter WHOSE team I am on. The sooner you start killing mafioso the better, so for gosh sakes take me up on my offer if you REALLY think I am mafia, as being dead kind of makes it less likely my mafia team will win. Finally, being dead more often than not proves my innocence and allows me to pursue the suspects without worry or bias, except in games where the dead cannot talk.

Because a basic townie is nothing more than a foot soldier, I was on the front lines right away from the get-go, under fire, shaking down potential mafia. I am ruthless, I am relentless, I may not always be right but I am usually right eventually, my track record so far is fairly good.

The mafia probably figure that if I am yapping, I don't have a role so it's pointless to waste their kills on me, unless town refuses to lynch me. But at the same time, it is in their best interests to make me dead as soon as possible, because given enough time I will find them. I may have bungled a couple of games when I had the victory in my hands (4) but they may not always be so lucky. Do they want to chance it?


Even if TinCow or Andres weren't mafia, they are veteran players who should be able to defend themselves against my attacks convincingly, and they should GET what I was trying to do. The fact that I have to explain this does not bode well for their innocence, in my book, but perhaps in future games they will remember this one and make a note of it.

I would like to put to rest the absurd notion that what I am doing "squelches discussion" too.

I was yapping for precisely what? 3 hours or so? After being inactive for two turns, and then was promptly inactive right after that? You guys have had over 48 hours of day time without my silly interference. You've had plenty of time since I left, too. Though it may LOOK like I am taking over the thread, I am simply posting a lot in a small period of time. You have much, much more time to discuss than I do.

TinCow knows full well that I was not squelching discussion, that's not a claim he can legitimately make no matter what role he has. So the fact that he'd make such a facetious argument again did not bode well for his innocence.

I have no way of knowing for sure if his claim of commuting is truthful, and in a game of lies and deceit, people often mix the truth with lies. I accept that he probably was commuting. It does not matter though, what I was doing forced him to respond as soon as possible, which was the point. I don't need to waste 4 game days prosecuting someone, there are a lot of suspects, and I felt that his case against me was weak. I needed to prove to both him and the rest of you my credentials, and I need to move onto other suspects after clearing/bagging TinCow. Time is short in mafia games, not long as Andres and TinCow have suggested. I humbly disagree with my more experienced counterparts on that point.

After I established myself, in my opinion, by my words and my actions, TinCow was unconvinced of my status. So, with nothing to lose, I said that I would vote myself so long as he'd agree to be investigated. And he's right, I can't force the investigator to do anything. TinCow could BE the investigator. However, the fact that he flat-out refused to change his vote, or even bluffingly accept my offer, and refused to state a better case against me, defend himself against my arguments, or agree to be lynched as long as I got lynched first, that shows to me that he's either a closed-minded townie or a stubborn and cornered mafia, and we don't need either of those running around alive.

No offense to you TinCow, as everyone know this is an adversarial game, and I don't hold grudges, and I don't become spiteful, vindictive, or take it personally when someone criticizes my playing style. After this game, things will be back to normal I expect, and I am not attacking you personally. I am attacking your in-game play based on my in-game role as a townie. You're a decent fellow and I respect you personally.

:bow:

I offered TC other options, like if he would change his vote I'd agree to be investigated. I offered him my head as a lynch target, and my vote on myself to confirm it. I offered to have this duel in another round if he would remove his vote from me. I even said that he could keep his vote on me if he had a more substantive argument. He has the intellect and the rhetorical skill to do any of these things, and he refused. When I upped the stakes and said that I thought he was a mafia and was willing to risk it all, my life, his life, and even the potential outcome of the game, on my hunch that he was a mafia trying to eliminate me without just cause, he would not step up to the plate and call my "bluff", and it was never a bluff.

If TinCow had a role, he might have left the prosecution of Pizzaguy to the rest of town to pursue. Since he did not, I again made an assumption that he was either a basic townie or a scum. In any case, we can technically afford to lose him. My assumption could be wrong, but I raised the stakes to "all-in" and he had every opportunity to fold and let others take his place. I would have focused on the next most scummy candidate and all would have been forgiven, but that was not to be.

My argument was sound, in spite of TinCow's and Andres assertions to the contrary, and that they would not look at them with an open mind and instead resorted to appealing to fear and emotion by threatening my life, calling me bitter, and saying I was "scumtastic" without citing reasons (a laughable thing, as I had given you a thousand different things to cite, on purpose) it told me that they weren't being open-minded townies that I could work with after I was dead. It also told me that they were likely cornered mafia.

I don't see any other way to see it, and after the game if TinCow and Andres both prove to be townies, I'll offer them my apologies for being wrong, I am only mortal. But that's different from having a flawed argument or being bitter. My strategy was multifaceted and all designed to increase town's chances of winning, and incorporated many junction points where if my accusation was false, it could have been easily resolved, and it reduced the likelihood that if my death and TinCow's were to happen, town would suffer for it.

We are both uncleared suspects. At the very least, being dead clears us of being the remaining mafia. That still accomplishes something. Neither of us have good roles from what I gather. And instead of waiting several turns to be more or less randomly lynched, not bothering to actively challenge, question, and investigate people, I decided to be more proactive. If I were dead wrong on all counts, the end result would have been a wash; as townies we are likely to die anyway, and with both of us dead and still able to talk, what did we really lose?

At worst it would have been 2 townies without skills dead in a game of many, at a non-critical juncture where town would have had plenty of time to make up for even the worst case scenario. That was a gamble I was willing to make, perhaps not right away, and not for a while, but as the argument got more heated and no evidence was brought against me, and no further nor any concrete arguments were brought against me, I decided something smelled funny. And even after I went kamikaze on TinCow and offered to (indeed I did, conditionally) permanent vote myself which virtually guaranteed I was either not a mafia, (or I was a mafioso willing to die THIS TURN before I could ever have killed anyone) they still refused to unvote me, that told me that they weren't willing to wait another turn to kill me, which is the request they had made of me, to prolong this confrontation to another phase. They asked of me more than they themselves were willing to give in return, both in terms of time and in terms of collateral.

You should have taken my offer. My accusations were never defended against, no evidence was brought against me, and much was offered against TinCow in rebuttal, and as a bargain, and I raised the stakes to a place no sane mafioso would go, and offered to drop the whole matter if we were both investigated in rather short order.

Was that so much to ask? NO!

In the end, I feel TinCow lost the bet, and still would not back down. As such, he should have been lynched or investigated sooner rather than later. My conscience is clear on this matter, and it was precisely the correct, calculated move under the circumstances. In the future, I will use this duel with TinCow as an example, and if and when I raise the stakes, you will know I have very sound reasons for doing so, and if you ARE so convinced I am mafia, call my bluff.

I am not going to do this every game, even as a townie, because that ruins my chances of ever winning as a mafia again, but more importantly, I might have a pro-town role and I might not be sure I want to risk my life in all cases. However, when I do raise the stakes, you must pay attention, whether you personally agree with my strategy or not, whether you're town or not, whether you personally like me or not.

I will however start to hide my more lengthy tirades, harangues, statements, analyses, and assumptions in spoilers so as not to clog up the thread and give everyone else a chance to have a cross-firing argument with someone else, and not steal all the attention for 3 hours out of a game.

I know that at the end of the game, my innocence will be proven, and in all scenarios, I feel my actions were justified. This is just the game, but I still take my role seriously. And at the end of the day, it IS just a game, so who cares if taking a calculated risk results in a loss? As long as I can justify that risk I will take it. The consequences are never as dire as they would be in real life.

And by the way, I was a townie, and I was right about something. TinCow's case against me was paper thin, his willingness to consider what I had to say was nonexistent, as his defense never showed up. In the end, it was all just a paper tiger, as I had originally claimed. And now I have proven it.

I rest my case. Good luck town, and no hard feelings TinCow, of course! :shakehands: :medievalcheers:


(PS- I know that even if I am 100% right, nobody likes a smarty-pants who doesn't shut up. So, if you wish, I can play without stating my reasons from now on. I'll play these games without any tools at my disposal if I must, because I enjoy them and I enjoy interacting with you guys. But if you want me to play effectively, you gotta let me talk.)





Sources;

1.) The Prometheus, A game of.... Mafia (TWC)
2.) The Lunar Whale, Family Guy Mafia, Fillet Royale
3.) The Prometheus
4.) The Lunar Whale, Family Guy Mafia

And, since you're so sure I am scum, even though the number of murders will exonerate me, I will abstain from giving an analysis in this game as well. No further distractions from me, and good luck town.

I understand your reaction, but from now on, maybe you'll understand me a little better.

:bow:

(*quote- Sigurd: No mafia would ever be that risky, yada yada....)

hmm... logic :idea2:

[taka]

any explanation about beefy?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Took the bait? What bait. I just pointed out (yet another)one of your (many) mistakes.

At the risk of sounding too cruel, everything you've done for town so far has been a mistake.

Game continues... you're content to coast through it. I gave you enough time to exonerate yourself after my accusation and my death. And since there was no heat on you, and you're a veteran, I assumed you'd be dead by now.

If you can pick on any little thing I say, I can point out your epic failure so far, and I can prove that you and TinCow collectively have steered this game towards disaster due to your posting patterns and votes.

Forgive my harsh analysis, but you're still a suspect, are you not? Still a rather scummy smelling one, might I add? And here's yours and TinCow's voting pattern for your amusement:



Day 1

Chaotix27 3 (TevashSzat, 777Ares777, Andres)
Yoyoma1910 2 ( glyphz, 187Beefyz)
Boudica 2 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, General Hankerchief)
187Beefyz 1 (Lord Winter)
TevashSzat 1 (YLC)
Hooahguy (TinCow) voted for newbie, who dropped out.
YLC 1 (Chaotix27)
Warluster 1 (Yoyoma1910)
Caius 1 (shlin28)
Abstain 5 (White Eyes :D, taka, Reenk Roink, boudica, Caius)

Failed to vote- 6 (Askthepizzaguy, hooahguy, LittleGrizzly, Lord Winter, Sarathos)

Day 2

Askthepizzaguy: 6 (Sigurd, Andres, Beefy, Reenk Roink, TinCow, 777ares777)
GeneralHankerchief: 3 (TevashSzat, QJC, White_eyes:D)
Andres: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, Lord Winter)

TinCow: 1 (Askthepizzaguy)
Lord Winter: 1 (Taka)
Boudica: 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Gaius: 1 (Shlin)
glyphz: 1 (GeneralHankerchief)

Abstain: 3 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Boudica, glyphz)
Not voting: 3 (Warluster, Warman, Sarathos)

Day 3

Tally:

Ares-3 (TinCow, White_Eyes, Gaius Scribonius Curio)
Boudica-1 (Shlin28)
Shlin28-1 (LittleGrizzly)

Not voting- 14 (Andres, Ares, Beefy, Boudica, Caius, Lord Winter, Quintus JC, Reenk Roink, Sarathos, Sigurd, Taka, TevasSzat, Warluster, Warman)\

Andres didn't even need to vote in this pathetic round.

Facing the Wrath of Khaan next round if they don't vote- 2 (Warluster, Warman)

Day 4


Tally

Little Grizzly: 4 (Beefy, Tincow, Andres, White_Eyes)
Reenk: 3 (Lord Winter, taka, Reenk Roink)
White_Eyes: 1 (Tevash)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)
Not Voting: 5 (Boudica, Caius, Sigurd, Warluster, Warman)

Day 5

TinCow: 3 (White Eyes :D, 187Beefyz, Andres)
Taka: 1 (TinCow
TevashSzat: 1 (Lord Winter)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)
Sigurd: 1 (Taka)

Abstain: 1 (Sigurd)


__________________________________


Feast your eyes on how Andres has led you astray... and how I suspect Tincow was part of that dastardly plan.

Draw your own conclusions.:7teacher:

[Askthepizzaguy]

any explanation about beefy?

I will answer any question you might have. Could you be more specific, if this was directed towards me?


I want to point out that at the end of this game one of the following 3 things will happen:

1. I will be called one of the stupidest mafia ever
2. I will be called one of the stupidest townies ever
3. I will be respected at last

I really don't want to risk 1 or 2, for obvious reasons.

[Andres]

Okay, so, we have:

1) Everybody Andres voted for, got lynched;
2) ???
3) Andres must be mafia.

Please, enlighten us: what is step 2) ?

[TinCow]

You ignored obviously scummy people, such as Tincow, when he did obviously inconsistent things, or contributed in a way unusual for TinCow, i.e. not as helpful as other games.

In my defense, I was committed to Ephesus first. I originally turned down an invitation to this game as I did not want to play two at once, since it would distract my attention and I like to put a lot of effort into the games I play. When I got lynched first round in Ephesus, I spontaneously decided to joint this game, but soon realized that I should remain active even while dead in Ephesus. Thus, I got myself into the very situation I was trying to avoid in the first place. As you're well aware, I've been putting a lot of effort into Ephesus, and that has reduced the time I have available for this game. Plus, there's far, far less to go on in this game. I like operating on known evidence. In this game, we have essentially none and it's all about posting patterns, which I am far less good at figuring out.

At this point, I honestly have no clue who is mafia in this game. Unless I have some epiphany, which I think unlikely, my contributions from here on out will be minimal simply because I've got nothing useful to say.

[taka]

I will answer any question you might have. Could you be more specific, if this was directed towards me?


yea, as in you've had ur case on andres, but u say to keep an hawk eye out for beefy too, what does beefy seem like to you? whats ur opinions on him?

[Askthepizzaguy]

yea, as in you've had ur case on andres, but u say to keep an hawk eye out for beefy too, what does beefy seem like to you? whats ur opinions on him?

Whooo...

As you might imagine from my Wall O Text I've been typing... I'm getting burned out.

I think I mentioned the reasons earlier. I will post them again if I haven't. I am doing like 4 games at once.

I need time to respond to everyone, in spite of my magical fingers.

[Askthepizzaguy]

In my defense, I was committed to Ephesus first. I originally turned down an invitation to this game as I did not want to play two at once, since it would distract my attention and I like to put a lot of effort into the games I play. When I got lynched first round in Ephesus, I spontaneously decided to joint this game, but soon realized that I should remain active even while dead in Ephesus. Thus, I got myself into the very situation I was trying to avoid in the first place. As you're well aware, I've been putting a lot of effort into Ephesus, and that has reduced the time I have available for this game. Plus, there's far, far less to go on in this game. I like operating on known evidence. In this game, we have essentially none and it's all about posting patterns, which I am far less good at figuring out.

At this point, I honestly have no clue who is mafia in this game. Unless I have some epiphany, which I think unlikely, my contributions from here on out will be minimal simply because I've got nothing useful to say.

This is perhaps the first post of yours I can agree with and understand.

Seriously, it's difficult enough to debate Andres alone. Going against two of you... its no wonder I died so fast.

:bow: If you do have something to add, I have not discounted the fact that you could still be a townie, and that Andres has successfully used you for his purposes.

Come talk, as long as I dont have to debate both of you at once, please/mercy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay, so, we have:

1) Everybody Andres voted for, got lynched;
2) ???
3) Andres must be mafia.

Please, enlighten us: what is step 2) ?



THIS IS IMPORTANT:

Mafia cannot risk being lynched, so they will join the bandwagon half of the time or more, especially in close votes.

Your self-defense votes will now be the noose that hangs you, I hope and pray.

[Andres]

THIS IS IMPORTANT:

Mafia cannot risk being lynched, so they will join the bandwagon half of the time or more, especially in close votes.

Your self-defense votes will now be the noose that hangs you, I hope and pray.

So it's:


1) Everybody Andres voted for, got lynched;
2) Mafia cannot risk being lynched, so they will join the bandwagon half of the time or more, especially in close votes.
3) Andres must be mafia.

Am I correct?

EDIT:
If so:
a) I was never at risk of getting lynched, except on day 2;
b) I never just "bandwagoned" but always provided reasons for my vote;

:bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's a GROSSLY oversimplified version of but one aspect of your scummy scummy scumness, yes.


And if that was all I had to go on, you know what I would do? I'd politely post that reason, and begone.
But seriously, you're overly defensive, quick to judge, dismissive, and a laundry list of other complaints. And as a cherry on top of the massive case against you, a case I could not possibly build against anyone else here at this time, you HAVE bandwagon'ed on almost EVERY vote as any good self-defending scumbag would.

Yes.

:edit: And no, you've never been in real danger, but... you were always happy to put the final nail in the coffin of someone else. It would be my greatest honor to personally witness the final nail in yours, and drive that sucker in myself.

If you're a townie, and Tincow was a townie, in this game... I'll be a humbled pizzaguy. But you do reek, and people can see why you reek more than the others, it's all right there in front of their eyes.

[Andres]

Self-defending?

But I was never at risk of getting lynched. What have I been defending myself against then?

It's not grossly simplifying, it's reducing your "case" against me to what it is: rubbish.

Now, would you mind if townies would focus on the other living players during the next day phase?

[Askthepizzaguy]

HAH!

You're not so naive. How many games have you played Andres?


Here's the situation:

Youre a mafia. You have things to do, people to slay, a busy life. You look at the tally. Everyone has one vote.

If you vote for none of those, there is a risk that two people could randomly vote for you, or detect your smellyness, and you could be dead before you read the thread again.

Aha! Someone now has two votes.

If you vote them... you are 4 votes away from being lynched.

"I'm safe now!" You think as you vote for that person, who dies.

Rinse and repeat.





Now, would you mind terribly.... if town lynches you?


Read this post.

[Andres]

Ok, I reached 7000 posts today, thanks to ATPG.

:cheerleader: :birthday2: :cheerleader:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok, I reached 7000 posts today, thanks to ATPG.

:cheerleader: :birthday2: :cheerleader:

Game aside, congratulations. And you did it defending your honor, so to speak :laugh2:

Not bad, not bad at all my friend. :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[taka]

Ok, I reached 7000 posts today, thanks to ATPG.

:cheerleader: :birthday2: :cheerleader:

woo! congrats! :dancing:

[Askthepizzaguy]

woo! congrats! :dancing:

I think Taka wants to dance with you, Andres

:laugh4:


This is just a game. We've been serious for so long, it's good to relax a little.

[Andres]

I think Taka wants to dance with you, Andres

:laugh4:


This is just a game. We've been serious for so long, it's good to relax a little.

Allthough sometimes very frustrating, sparring with you has been fun :2thumbsup:

Of course, you are wrong and scum and all that, but still a fun experience :smash:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Allthough sometimes very frustrating, sparring with you has been fun :2thumbsup:

Of course, you are wrong and scum and all that, but still a fun experience :smash:

Andres, and Tincow, no matter how vociferously I accuse you, I have great respect and admiration for you both, and I consider you my friends.

This has been the funnest game for me ever. Taking risks yields rewards, even if all you get is the experience of taking the risks. Trying to be too ambitious in nabbing mafia may blind me to other suspects, I admit... but I was very careful in combing this whole thread and I swear you've got all or most of the indicators that I mentioned in my mafia analysis file.

You'll at least get to rub it in my face if I was wrong. All of you will. At the very least, you finally get to shut up the pizzaguy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

yea, as in you've had ur case on andres, but u say to keep an hawk eye out for beefy too, what does beefy seem like to you? whats ur opinions on him?

Ok things have died down and I can answer.

If I can keep the Beefster's posts in this game separate from other games for a moment...


You know, in the confusion, I might have still been trying to nail him in the Ephesus game and transferred it over here. But he did give an excuse not to be here, asked for the discussion to stop, and then Andres went wacky when I suggested he suicide. He could find a replacement, too.

I had some other reasons, but I'd have to recheck the entire thread to post them here. :wall:
I'm also burnt out from all these debates and arguments, I can't really continue.

[boudica]

OK ATPG - I think someone described you - in one of those sheaves of posts - as (if you weren't mafia) an unhelpful townie. ANd considering the pages I just waded through to learn nothing new, I have to agree. ATPG You were my top suspect before we lynched you, but if we could do it again and it would keep you quiet, I'd vote for you again in a NY minute:laugh4:

However we unfortunately seem to be running a little short on time to be lynching you again. I feel almost certain that Andres is town - my only worry at this point is that he stood up so well against you that he might be the surviving member of your infernal double-act! - (that kind of double-triple-psychology has to be discounted I think, due to the 'passion' involved - if it was faked then you guys should be actors :laugh4:).

I have my suspicions but will see what happens tonight before posting them tomorrow. I think town can still win this if we manage to see through all the 'fog'.

[GeneralHankerchief]

If Andres is mafia, I'll eat my computer.

[Reenk Roink]

Wow good game Sigurd or Lord Winter (or both). Though you had a lot of help from the misguided town.

[taka]

Wow good game Sigurd or Lord Winter (or both). Though you had a lot of help from the misguided town.

what does that mean? :inquisitive:

[TinCow]

It means RR is trying to get a rise out of you.

[Reenk Roink]

It means RR is trying to get a rise out of you.

It is a serious comment one two people who probably are Mafia.

[TinCow]

Ah, I missed the (or both) bit. :bow:

[Beefy187]

Notice; he says specifically that he doubts that he'll be active. And no reason given. I understand it's none of our business, but you're one of my top suspects.

Giving us an excuse for not being here as we cross the finish line? Perhaps in the hopes we might not cruelly vote someone who is "inactive"? Since you don't expect to be here to help, but might be here to finish us off, I would request you suicide. But you can't suicide in this game, can you?



If you will be physically unable to get here, Beefy, this is legitimate cause for suiciding. Please do so if you won't be here, because you cannot vote or discuss and are therefore useless to town except as a warm body... potentially a warm mafia body.

If I have misinterpreted the letter or spirit of this rule, Seireikhaan will let us know.




But this is my opinion and my request. Your decision, and town can decide whether it's better or worse for them. I don't believe you'd agree to the suicide anyway, it may be moot. But if you cannot vote...

Ok leaving in 7-8 hours.

Reason why I doubt being active is because I'll be leaving my house with a friend. Stay in the hotel for a while. The hotel (a bloody cheap one) claims that they have internet but I'm not sure if they actually work, or are fast enough.

Another reason is that, the friend never seen my country before, so im guiding him. And im not sure how much if I can be online during those days.

Thus why I said doubt

If thats the case, im willing to let someone take my role. But no suiciding is for those who are defeated.

Is the night over yet?

[seireikhaan]

The summer rain hung heavy over the town of Cicero, Illinois like a draping shroud. Strong gales shook the buildings and loose rabble made a racking noise in the streets. Lord Winter sat by his window and admired the spectacle. He loved the cold and the rain and could sit staring at the small rivers running down on the other side of the window hours after hours. He never saw the man with the big umbrella, walking by his house dressed in a trench coat and a new fedora. He didn’t notice the man stopping for a smoke in the street. He never felt the bullet tearing into his brain, leaving a smear of red pulp on his floor. The last thing he remembered was the beautiful cascading water running down on his window.

TevashSzat, the lover of books and poems, had locked himself inside his home upon advice from Chief Vonken. He had several new books to read, so being alone in a quiet house didn’t scare him that much. He was really looking forward to reading. He had brewed some fresh coffee and had prepared a plate with a varied assortment of cookies fresh from the local baker.
This was going to be a great evening. He could hear the rain drumming on the roof and it was a soothing sound. Apparently there was some distant thunder somewhere and the sound rolled over his house. He had just bought a copy of the new book, Lady Chatterley’s lover and was well into the first chapter when he heard a muffled bump and a sizzling sound. He put the book down and tried to locate the sound. Thunder clapped outside as he neared the fireplace. Too late did he see the bundle of dynamite cubes lying on the ashes of his fireplace with the fuse rapidly shrinking. TevashSzat tried to run towards the front door, but had only taken a few steps before his house was blown to splinters. Outside, on the other side of the street, stood a man smiling under an umbrella smoking a cigarette. He reached for the brim of his new fedora and made sure it balanced perfectly before walking calmly down the street.



The town trudged back to the police station, the dark sky which still remained reflecting their moods. Chief Vonken stood there, awaiting them. He looked out... only six people remaining. Chief shook his head. He looked to the small gaggle of people left. "My good people of Cicero... There have been two more murders last night. I fear our time is nearly up to catch the murders. Please, for the love of the Lord, make the right choice. This may very well be our last chance. Now, get to it!"



Alive: 6

Andres
Beefy
Boudica
Sigurd
Taka
White_Eyes


Dead: 12
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Glyphz (N3)
QuintusJC (N4)
Shlin28 (N4)
Gaius Scribonius Curio (N5)
Reenk Roink (N5)
Lord Winter (N6)
TevashSzat (N6)

Lynched: 5

Chaotix (D1)
Askthepizzaguy (D2)
Ares777 (D3)
LittleGrizzly (D4)
TinCow (D5)

Suicide: 1

Hooahguy (D2)

WoK: 4

Sarathos (D3)
Warluster (D4)
Warman (D4)
Caius (D5)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Most of the murders since the midgame have been those who have been the most suspicious. This means the mafia have not been getting any votes.

I urge the town to lynch someone who has waltzed by in this game, attracting little to no suspicion of any kind.

[taka]

brim of his new fedora

in a trench coat and a new fedora

we have definately got one of them already and that the killer is the same one, ie, we have only one mafia in the 6!

[Beefy187]

Vote: Andres

His definitely a scum

[taka]

heeding to GH's advice

vote: Boudica

she has had pretty much no suspicion through the game

the other person is FoS: sigurd as he also has pretty much no attention on him

either one lynched will do me

[GeneralHankerchief]

Beep beep boop boop bloop bop bo.

[taka]

edit:

captions gone :(

[Beefy187]

Beep beep boop boop bloop bop bo.

:sweatdrop:

Just give me a hour or two before I explain why Andres is a scum.

[ULC]

Beep beep boop boop bloop bop bo.

I saw what that was, and what you replaced it with makes it even funnier now. Course I am very tired and easily humored :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: :laugh4::laugh4: :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

[taka]

I saw what that was, and what you replaced it with makes it even funnier now. Course I am very tired and easily humored :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: :laugh4::laugh4: :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

hahaha~ init ;)

[White_eyes:D]

FoS:Boudica Vote:abstain I will wait and see who votes......:spider:...I really am at a loss.....Beefy are you the Mafia???:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:

[Beefy187]

FoS:Boudica Vote:abstain I will wait and see who votes......:spider:...I really am at a loss.....Beefy are you the Mafia???:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:

If I am a mafia, do I nod? :yes:

Then do I continue with a :clown:

Then do I go :laugh4:

No I am not mafia. FoS: White_eyes

Cmon, you can't catch a mafia like that.

[White_eyes:D]

If I am a mafia, do I nod? :yes:

Then do I continue with a :clown:

Then do I go :laugh4:

No I am not mafia. FoS: White_eyes

Cmon, you can't catch a mafia like that.

Well hardly any votes have come your way and I am having a hard time with the fact that the ONLY clue could be bull, knowing Khaan....but also feel it could be a hint....damn WIFOM:whip:

[Beefy187]

Well if the Fedora clue is correct then.. Now that Tevash is gone, its only you and me left.

FoS: White_eyes even more. I know im innocent. But you could be dirty.

Unvote: Andres

Ill revote when I confirm that I get internet.

[boudica]

Well all I've read over the last day or so has only increased my suspicions. I'd be very suprised to see you go Awol for the end of this Beefy - unless we do the right thing and lynch you - my vote from last round sticks vote: 187Beefyz

@Taka - While it is true that I haven't contributed as much as I would have liked this game, it is not true that I have been ignored at all - everyone who has commented during the game has pretty much been voted for - everyone else has been WoK'd!. I'd be doubting my suspicion of Beefy and pointing a FoS at you for jumping on ATPGs call to lynch Andres; if you hadn't shown a change of heart halfway through their ridiculous sparring match yesterday.

I'd urge town to vote Beefy - even in the last few posts his incosistency is obvious - he claims Andres is definitely scum and then points FoS at White Eyes :D ???:inquisitive:

My best guess is that if we lynch Beefy today then town has won.

Tally:


Boudica: 1 (Taka)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)

Abstain: 1 (White Eyes:D)

[Andres]

Sigurd only has 5 posts in this thread, 1 of them a post to sign in... :inquisitive:


Responding to a friendly reminder that I am making it easy for the Mafia by being WoGed.

Looking at the tally in taka's post, It seems TinCow is the candidate.
I can't seem to make a difference and I need to read a few pages to form an opinion.

vote: Abstain

Who sent you the reminder? And please, tell us, did you read a few pages by now and did you form an opinion already?

Talk.

[LittleGrizzly]

The only people i have suspected that are left are Andres and boudica.... WE was/is a minor suspect for me... new slight suspicions of beefy but i don't think it is...

Almost glad i haven't got a vote... would be unsure where to stick it...

Edit: Andres makes a good point about sigurd...

Err guess i should mention taka as well.... probably my least suspected...

[Andres]

I'm going to

Vote : Sigurd

I've never seen him getting WoG'ed in a game before and this lack of participation is very, very unusual and I'd like to have a decent explanation.


Just give me a hour or two before I explain why Andres is a scum.

Followed by:


Well if the Fedora clue is correct then.. Now that Tevash is gone, its only you and me left.

FoS: White_eyes even more. I know im innocent. But you could be dirty.

Unvote: Andres

Ill revote when I confirm that I get internet.

Please, tell us, why first me and then White_Eyes:D ?

[Andres]

Come on guys, we need more discussion :whip:

Tally:


Boudica: 1 (Taka)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)
Sigurd : 1 (Andres)

Abstain: 1 (White Eyes:D)

If it stays like this, our fate will be decided ad random.

So much activity at night and now we have complete silence.

:no:

[taka]

first

@ boudica
if u read beefy's post on whispers, he clearly states that he might have to reduce activity from the 23 before the game even started. so he has mentioned it beforehand and not a last minute thing. however his inconsistency of choice is fairly scummy, but a comment like that from white_eyes deserves a FoS'ing

regarding ATPG/andres discussion, if you read through, ATPG DOES bring in a few really good points that should not be discredited - however his comment on beefy suicide clearly shows he is up to no good and is not good for town; hence a little more trust in andres

@ beefy
not really sure what this fedora clue thing is about, but i dont feel its linked to another game

@ andres
so you also picked up scummyness from sigurd? as i mentioned in a previous post, sigurd has hardly EVER posted, and votes an abstain... scummy scummy scummyness

[Andres]

first

@ boudica
if u read beefy's post on whispers, he clearly states that he might have to reduce activity from the 23 before the game even started. so he has mentioned it beforehand and not a last minute thing. however his inconsistency of choice is fairly scummy, but a comment like that from white_eyes deserves a FoS'ing

regarding ATPG/andres discussion, if you read through, ATPG DOES bring in a few really good points that should not be discredited - however his comment on beefy suicide clearly shows he is up to no good and is not good for town; hence a little more trust in andres

@ beefy
not really sure what this fedora clue thing is about, but i dont feel its linked to another game

@ andres
so you also picked up scummyness from sigurd? as i mentioned in a previous post, sigurd has hardly EVER posted, and votes an abstain... scummy scummy scummyness

That post...

I don't know what to think of it, but it gives me bad vibes.

I think it's taka and/or Sigurd. It bothers me that there is not more activity today.

Sigurd's total lack of contribution is unusual both as mafia and as town.

Unvote : Sigurd
Vote : taka

[taka]

in what way? care to elaborate?

[Andres]

in what way? care to elaborate?

Well, first of all the careful tone of the post I quoted. It sounds calculated and it is formulated as if you don't want to take a clear position. It's just too careful and neutral.

Also, at first you were with ATPG in attacking me and now that it seems like I'm not exactly the prime lynch target, you sound a bit like, well, like you're sucking me up, trying to get on my good side.

[taka]

fair enough, but i've already taken my position in who i think are most likely mafia as you will have noticed my earlier vote post which indicates who i think are scummy

as with being on your good side, not really, as it was ATPG's own fault for un-convincing me and making me re-think he's the other scummy one

[Andres]

fair enough, but i've already taken my position in who i think are most likely mafia as you will have noticed my earlier vote post which indicates who i think are scummy

as with being on your good side, not really, as it was ATPG's own fault for un-convincing me and making me re-think he's the other scummy one


I see, but still.

Sigurd, I have sent you a pm regarding this game. Why are you not posting?

[boudica]

@Taka - the reasons Andres has changed his vote to you is the same reasons I noted I found you suspicious, you've accused Andres, Me and White Eyes :D :laugh4: If my nose hadn't crinkled so much at Beefyz posts you'd definitely be my nbext choice:yes:

@Sigurd and White Eyes :D Hope you guys get your vote in:

Tally:
Boudica: 1 (Taka)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)
Taka : 1 (Andres)

Abstain: 1 (White Eyes:D)

[taka]

well andres was in the previous round, so i wouldnt really count that for this round. however my suspicions for you is actually second to sigurd - i see you have started to reply with a vote on yourself so pressure voting you to finally contribute more does seem to work.

as with white_eyes, when did i accuse him? i cant seem to remember, unless ur talking about the way he asked beefy if he was mafia? haha that was hilarious. however, white_eyes voting abstain at a time like this deserves to be looked into

my preferences are still to hold

[Andres]

Sigurd replied my pm. It seems like he's very busy with RL at the moment and he regrets being in 4 mafia games at the same time.

Can't quote it, since it contains private things which I'm not sure he wants me to post in public.

I think Sigurd can be left off the hook.

[White_eyes:D]

Well, I am stuck......who to vote for???:dizzy2: Beefy and Sigurd are off the hook......but I have no idea who.....DAMN this is why townie's who are last to die, hate being in the end.....because you know you need to find the Mafia...and if you vote wrong then your screwed:pimp:

[White_eyes:D]

I am gonna Vote:Andres....I want to hear more from you on why taka is scum......yes he has been WAY more active for this....but he also has been active for YLC's game.....and Boudica is a 'newer player' but if you check 'Noble Sons' (My second game) you well see that it does not take much to be Mafia....(I think of it as unleashing your dark side:evil:) so???:inquisitive:

[Andres]

My case against taka.

It's long, so I put it in spoiler tags:


to be honest, i personally think you're acting a little scummy

not saying LittleGrizzly isnt, but your just a bit more than him :P

In response to me, in a little discussion after I randomly named hooahguy as "suspicious".

Note the: "not saying LG is, but your just a bit more" -> not taking position, neutral sounding.


Vote: Lord Winter

Well let's try make him speed up the answering then shall we?

Tally

Andres - 2 (GH, Lord Winter)
GeneralHankerchief- 2 (Reenk Roink, Andres)
Askthepizzaguy - 1 (Sigurd)
Lord Winter - 3 (Askthepizzaguy, Gaius Scribonius Curio, Taka)

Didn't provide a reason to vote Lord Winter who already had two votes. Shameless bandwagoning (and third on the bandwagon too...)


since my other main suspect was andres, i would have "bandwagon'd" anyway lol

Tally

Andres - 2 (GH, Lord Winter)
GeneralHankerchief- 2 (Reenk Roink, Andres)
Askthepizzaguy - 1 (Sigurd)
Lord Winter - 2 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Taka)
Taka 2 - (beefy, ATPG)

ATPG called him out on the bandwagoning he did in the previous quoted post; not a convincing defense now, is it?


sorry if im seem to be semi lurking to you, i've exams coming up and tend to be only able to catch up when im at home (and not in library)

Now, with ATPG gone, i think i'll be able to catch up more easily without all his random accusation posts

As with what andres asked, i too would like to see your opinion on little grizzly



so far, from my opinion i feel that the mafia (or at least one) is lurking whilst letting townies bickering amongst ourselves and throw false accusations on each other. i still fail to see anyone suspicious enough for me to think they are mafia at a high percentage.

i do however think that shlin is underposting; from what i know he used to post a lot. i think i've only seen him post once?

In response to Gaius Sribonius Curio, who accused him of semi-lurking. Interesting part is bolded by me. First he says that he doesn't see anyone suspicious enough to be mafia, and then he adds the "however shlin" part. Slightly contradicting himself + trying to sound neutral + careful and calculatedn post. Again.


I think we got one me them, looking at the last write up, there is no second hitman mentioned, where as there were two in the other previous write ups.
Need to confirm when i get on a computer as browsing on the phone is quite hard.

He posted this as a commentary on the night write-ups from the night after we lynched ATPG. TinCow points out that that information cannot be deducted from the write-up.


1st write-up - kill on Tiberius

Quote:
Originally Posted by seireikhaan
He could visibly see a figure in a rather large trench coat and Fedora in the passenger side of the vehicle

2nd write-up - kill on YLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by seireikhaan
...the man picked up the pace as a black Model T car pulled up the curb. The man hopped into the passenger side...

in the last two write ups, although not directly mentioning the 2nd person, the write ups DOES discretely note a 2nd person (the driver). however in the last write up, nothing about the 2nd person is mentioned

unless a person can drive in the passenger seat; i think the previous write-ups had two people, whilst the latest one doesnt

so tincow, is that good enough observation for you? or am i still talking false mumbo jumbo?

In a reaction to that, TinCow says that taka has a sharp eye. Sharp eye or did he already knew there was only one mafioso left?

Also, remember the "Need to confirm when i get on a computer" part from his previously quoted post.


it's alright, im more rusty than newbie :P

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
I think it's more likely our mafia is found in the "voted" list.

i kinda didnt think about that, but it could be a very valid point. i guess we could try lynching each one there's enough of us to do so.

Yes indeed, taka is not a newbie. Concurs with GeneralHankerchiefs' point. I for one fail to see why that was a valid point and taka doesn't say why he thinks it's a valid point. He just agrees with GH. Trying to make friends?


i have a different opinion on who might be killed.

me. maybe

sigurd. maybe

but i dont think the combination of killing both me and sigurd in the same round is high

Speculating on the kills that night. What is that good for?



bah what the heck,

Vote: Reenk

he was on my suspect list anyway

secretly in library posting... i'll go thru the post properly later

"bah what the heck" -> Vote without providing a reason.


lol. well im actually in library helping two girls do their coursework () which needs to be handed in....today lol. kinda been in library all day.

as with the lynch, either RR or LG was good for me. i myself was gonna vote LG until RR came up with the i am mafia thing.

so even now that LG is gone, i think i would vote for RR next unless something more interesting comes up. call me stubborn or whatever, but i personally feel admitting mafia is a must go, joking or not.

Why is a statement made in jest by RR a god reason to vote? He also says both LG or RR were good lynch options, yet he doesn't provide solid reasons for either of them.


first, the write-up
a very mixed write-up, either that mafia have learnt to copy parts of khaan's style, or khaan's changed his style slightly :S
the psycho movie kill does not fit into the pattern of khaan's write-up so far. also no mention of what gun was used unlike previous write-ups. however the format of text is very khaan like.
Reenk's death is not an exact copy of the original, as towards the end a fedora was "found at the scene"

i dont know whether theres any significant conclusions we can draw from the write-up at this point, but i'm still going to assume that we have one mafia left in the game as there is still no mention of a 2nd mafia.

so if the mafia is still wearing a fedora next round i'd be suspicious :P


secondly, white eyes, unvote your self and dont be silly
out of the two, i get a feeling tincow is more mafia than white eyes.


Quote:
Yeesh, well Gaius' death makes my decision pretty simple. White_Eyes and I are the only people left alive who voted on Day 3.

the way tincow acts gives me a weird vibe and i get a gut feeling that tincow is more suspicious. not hardore evidence but
vote: tincow

Not really providing a good reason, not quoting a post from TinCow that gave the bad vibe. Also, again, the neutral, careful, almost apologetical addition "not hardcore evidence but".



-> tincow
i think its mostly because people that havent played with me before dont know what my style of play is (i dont really even know myeslf), and so is uncomfortable. i totally understand if u and everyone else thinks im acting/playing weird. if u wanna lynch me then do so, but im a townie, and even beefy thinks so too.

-> reenk
i was gonna vote LG but you went and "pulled a spartan". i think i had a valid reason to vote for you back then... and i wasnt the only one anyway :P

-> GH
im not really sure what you mean by:

Quote:
What made him all of a sudden change up in this game

is that to me?

Tally:

TinCow: 4 (Taka, White Eyes :D, 187Beefyz, Andres)

White Eyes :D: 1 (Lord Winter)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)
taka: 1 (tincow)

He "totally understands" if we think he acts weird and we can lynch him if we want. Neutral, careful, not trying to step on others' toes: yep, again...


looking back on the list, im quite surprised that caius is still on the list, i dont think ive seen him post lol, well very little anyway.

but who im actually quite very suspicious of tho is sigurd

he would be Wok'd this round if he doesnt vote, and "surprise". he's voted. and abstained.

trying to keep a low profile sigurd??

guys, how about we look into sigurd?

i'm willing to let tincow off the hook for a deeper look into sigurd

unvote: Tincow
vote: sigurd

edit:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
Sigurd is probably Mafia in this one.

you think so too huh?


Naming two suspects. Caius has not been very active at the Org, was not so difficult to check. Makes a valid point about Sigurd, but the "guys, how about we look into sigurd" sounds awfully mafia-ish to me.


dont worry, i am skeptical of you... i have my reasonings too.

but it was true that andres didnt have a good defense at the time.

i'll carry on reading the last 10 or so post and see


In answer to ATPG, who thanked him for his support.


ATPG's suggestion of beefy suicide just made me think that he is scum, backing up my theory that there was no mention of 2nd mafia after ATPG's lynch in the write-up.

if he really was townie then he need not and should not even mention about beefy suicide.

i did support ATPG before, when andres was giving shoddy defense, but now i think i can trust andres just a little bit more after his attempt to reason why beefy shoulnt suicide

Well, he agrees with me, but I don't like the "i can trust andres just a little bit more". Why is he limiting himself to watching the show instead of actually bringing forth arguments of his own? Why didn't he challenge me or ATPG by putting forward accusations or arguments from himself? Again, the same: because he's being careful.


i am taking what you said into consideration, but ur a little scummy too u know

weights are about 60:40 for u and andres, atm, but im not discrediting that u cud be scummy and is the other mafia.

i had a discussion about the conversation between you and andres with someone before, and although u did come up with some really good points, i'm not 100% believing your intentions.

Yes, both ATPG and me can be scummy. Neutral, balancing, careful. Again.


we have definately got one of them already and that the killer is the same one, ie, we have only one mafia in the 6!

How can he be so sure? Write-ups don't reveal much.


heeding to GH's advice

vote: Boudica

she has had pretty much no suspicion through the game

the other person is FoS: sigurd as he also has pretty much no attention on him

either one lynched will do me

He votes boudica, following GH's advice... Why not providing an actual reason? FoS'es Sigurd because he didn't got much attention. Why not FoS ing him for lurking? Why not giving a reason instead of something that sounds like a reason, but isn't a reason. Because he's careful.


first

@ boudica
if u read beefy's post on whispers, he clearly states that he might have to reduce activity from the 23 before the game even started. so he has mentioned it beforehand and not a last minute thing. however his inconsistency of choice is fairly scummy, but a comment like that from white_eyes deserves a FoS'ing

regarding ATPG/andres discussion, if you read through, ATPG DOES bring in a few really good points that should not be discredited - however his comment on beefy suicide clearly shows he is up to no good and is not good for town; hence a little more trust in andres

@ beefy
not really sure what this fedora clue thing is about, but i dont feel its linked to another game

@ andres
so you also picked up scummyness from sigurd? as i mentioned in a previous post, sigurd has hardly EVER posted, and votes an abstain... scummy scummy scummyness

I commented on this one before: again a post with a careful tone, sounding calculated and not taking a clear position.

Now, the thing is, one or two such neutral and careful posts, ok, but when it starts to become a pattern, then you're very likely scum. Add to that quite a few votes without actually giving a real reason and you're almost certainly scum.

My vote stays on taka.

[White_eyes:D]

Unvote:Andres Vote:taka If Andres is lying.....then I must give him a award for "most research done by player" well.....ATPG kinda toke that one but still....I will be back in a bit....:book:

[White_eyes:D]

Unless taka will defend himself....I am going to keep my vote on him (even if he did keep me from lynching myself in the last round....it could have been a Calculated Mafia move but I want to hear from him...:shrug:)

[taka]

give me a moment, im typing

[taka]

i think "we" trusted the wrong person.

lynch me if u want, but i guarantee it will get you no where - and its game over for us townies

im a conservative person. if you think that because i post neutral posts and that i am scum, well sorry town i guess i just lost it for us in this final phase.

regarding andres' big ass post about me, being the conservative me, i prefer not to let go of all the details and keep some to myself, just incase it gives mafia ideas. hence i probably sound very neutral.


however me and beefy took the initiative have been working in the background to figure out who is mafia towards this final phase, since town seems to be so inactive (or i could say the active players have been killed).

since me and beefy are townie, we looked through andres' posts and behaviour. although i DID in fact think andres was scummy at first, because ATPG did point out some very good things about andres, i was inclined to trust ATPG. But with my theory about the write-ups, ATPG was lynched and then no 2nd mafia was mentioned since then, adding to +trust from GH and beefy, i started to believe andres could be innocent.

so me and beefy then decided to set-up a bandwagon trap. this was for beefy to vote andres and act scummy. we would then see who would post and analyse the posts after. it was considered at the time that Boudica, Sigurd and White_eyes were one of the mafia.

and then andres posted that sigurd was busy in RL. this would mean that me, beefy, andres and sigurd would be deemed the ones most likely innocent. i then posted our plan to andres and that we trust he was innocent and has our backup.

the pm goes:


hey andres

if what sigurd says is true, then you, me, beefy and sigurd can be considered as townie.

both me, beefy and GH (i know he's dead, but whatever lol) think you are innocent, so that leaves just boudica and white_eyes

me and beefy have been setting a bandwagon trap to see who would respond hence his initial vote for you and trying to act scummy. we are still analysing who is mafia.

it would be best if you could act as normal as possible for now, but i think we have narrowed down the choices a lot

hope we can win this game, its getting sooo close

taka

he did not reply to the pm in any form - no ok, thanks or you're lies! you're mafia! no, nothing at all.

now, considering that andres has our trust behind him, why would he go and "analyse" me like that and then to continue vote for me?

andres has not analysed ANY OTHER person like he has done to me. obviously i am a big threat to him somehow, even when we trust him. he smells like mafia to me. one that is deperate to save himself from white_eye's vote.
the only reason is that he needs to get rid of me. i have no idea why he would want that, but after so much work only to be accused of mafia.

another point i really considered is why did ATPG sooo specifically pick on andres (and tincow, to some extent)? he hardly honed in on anyone else. i have not seen any other player chase after someone so intensely - could ATPG be the detective but killed before he could reveal? ATPG was nearly begging me to vote for andres

im willing to take the chance to lynch andres as opposed to the other players (boudica/white_eyes) for the pure fact that andres betrayed our trust on him.

i am also going to unvote boudica as she seems to be like how she is in this game in other games, so i would deem her to be probably innocent.

so if YOU ARE town (and you know who you are) you NEED to know that me, beefy and probably sigurd are TOWN. if anyone does have a role, they would not want to depart with it even due to RL situations. from this, intellectually pick your vote.

for me, im going to

unvote: boudica

vote: andres

i still probably sound neutral, but i've tried my best to make my case about andres. so again, town, please make a wise choice as this could be the last round

edit...

blummin hell, that took a long time lol

[White_eyes:D]

Unvote:taka Vote:Andres<------Record for changing votes.....:shame:
but when I think fedora....I think Andres.....don't ask me why:shrug: and it could have been that ATPG was our Pro-town guy....but if I am wrong them taka wins quite soundly..:sweatdrop:

[taka]

i still have that little bit of doubt on andres in the back of my head....if he's not mafia, then he's being a very bad town and i'd probably regret it. but im gonna comfort myself by saying you brought it on youself that i dont believe you now lol

[GeneralHankerchief]

It *is* possible that ATPG intentionally played up the hokey-ness of his Andres attack because he knew the town wouldn't believe him. Reverse psychology and all that.

Still, my gut says he's innocent.

[taka]

Still, my gut says he's innocent.

i would love to have believed that, since grandmaster GH also believes so too, but, well you can see what's happened :shame:

[Sigurd]

A bit unfair lynching Andres while he sleeps.
Someone else should make the decisive vote.

vote: taka

[seireikhaan]

Town has roughly 30 minutes left before I tally everything up and announce the lynch.

[taka]

and how would you know he is asleep sigurd? he could be lurking since we wont know as he's always on invisible mode.

looking back at andres' case, no offense but its pretty pathetic. most of his points are about being neutral, and then a few points about my voting style.

he also calls me shameless bandwagon - lets not forget, andres, that you have pretty much been on every single lynching bandwagon.

some of the my posts he "tries" to make out as scummy - are just shamelessly trying to find an excuse, most which arent even valid, eg like the "speculating on kills one." someone before me mentioned that and i commented. am i scummy because of that?

and with the why i didnt interfere with "the show" - why should i? at the time atpg had some very good valid points on yourself in which you couldnt defend. it was only til he blew it by talking about beefy suicide that i did say something

and is it not ok to have more than 2 suspects? im sure at one point most people had probably 3 or 4

if we had a look at your posts, and in comparison - at least im not shamelessly defending myself all the time, and i do contribute to findings more than u have.

sigurd, just because andres asked you for your reason why u have not participated and was being nice, doesnt mean that he is innocent. think for yourself and make an intellectual choice. i have already said all i can

[taka]

i hope we can still win if i get lynched in a tie

[seireikhaan]

Taka : 2 (Andres, Sigurd)
Andres 2 (Taka, White_eyes
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)

Abstain: 1 (White Eyes:D)

We have a tie, folks. First new vote to either Taka or Andres will result in instantaneous lynch. If either Taka or Andres is unvoted, the other will be automatically lynched, unless another candidate receives enough votes to make it a three way tie before then.

[Sigurd]

I suspect the reason for me being alive at this late stage is the need for a scape goat.
I have been waiting for the big SIGURD IS GUILTY - TEH LYNCHZ!!!
Both taka and Andres have attempted to throw this cliché, but have since backed off.

Does this mean we have one mafia left? Could the big accusation come next round?
I suspect we can afford to make the wrong decission to day.

unvote:taka, vote: Andres

[Askthepizzaguy]

Guys, Seriously.


After all this work and effort, if you let Andres win...


Please. Vote. Andres.

This was supposed to be my post-game analysis.... I laid out my entire commentary for this whole game. I spent 4 hours writing it.


Wrote this before I got here:

_____________________________________


EDIT: Reconsidered posting all my thoughts here.


Oh, and I have a fun little story for when this game is over, if I am right.

And Seireikhaan? You didn't put an investigator in the game, didja?
Hehehehe.... Classic GeneralHankerchief style game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Taka : 1 (Andres)
Andres 3 (Taka, White_eyes, Sigurd)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)

Abstain: 1 (White Eyes:D)




White_Eyes... Consider this my apology for not trusting you in Family Guy. I blew the game, and YOU WERE RIGHT.

Please... you never, ever, have to believe me ever again about anything, and I will take a break from playing mafia games for as long as all of you wish.


This is not WIFOM. This is occam's razor. Please.... if you ever listen to me, listen to me now, and I will forever hold my peace if I am wrong.

[taka]

the game best be finished, coz i would have to hate voting for another round!

now, time to read what ATPG has to say...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am here and prepared to defend my reasoning throughout the game. And if I need to, I will post my entire Mafia Master Analysis System, and you can see my methods.


Please let me keep the system to myself, though, or it's rendered ineffective.


I am willing to show you a little bit of it for free if you keep your votes on Andres.

Ask me any question about this game. I'm here.

[seireikhaan]

The remaining people of Cicero began their desperate inquisition to stop the murder and mayhem. When Chief Vonken announced that the day was done, the vote was in. Andres had, at last, been selected to be lynched. Chief Vonken stepped up the the condemned man, who was knelt before the Chief at the force of other townspeople.

"Andres, do you have any last words?"

"I swear, you have the wrong man! You are sentencing the town to doom if you kill me! You have the wrong man!"

The Chief looked at the man knelt before him, feeling a great sadness and despair. So many dead... So much needless and senseless slaying. Yet... the Chief couldn't help but feel they were so close. Though a tear ran down his cheek, the chief raises his pistol for what he hoped would be the last time. One shot. One bullet. Andres fell to the concrete, blood running down the cracks into the pooling rainwater...


Andres 3 (Taka, White_eyes, Sigurd)
Taka : 1 (Andres)
187Beefyz: 1 (Boudica)

Abstain: 1 (White Eyes:D)




Alive: 5

Beefy
Boudica
Sigurd
Taka
White_Eyes


Dead: 12
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Glyphz (N3)
QuintusJC (N4)
Shlin28 (N4)
Gaius Scribonius Curio (N5)
Reenk Roink (N5)
Lord Winter (N6)
TevashSzat (N6)

Lynched: 6

Chaotix (D1)
Askthepizzaguy (D2)
Ares777 (D3)
LittleGrizzly (D4)
TinCow (D5)
Andres (D6)

Suicide: 1

Hooahguy (D2)

WoK: 4

Sarathos (D3)
Warluster (D4)
Warman (D4)
Caius (D5)

Night has begun! Please send me orders ASAP.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't believe Seireikhaan.


This is classic suspense before posting the fact that we won the game.


If it's not, I will eat my hat.

[taka]

omgomgomgomgomgomgomg

[GeneralHankerchief]

See ya in the final round.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You do realize I risked everything on this game?

My reputation, 50+ hours of my time, my pride, and any chance any of you will ever believe me again about anything. I am certain Andres and Tincow are both scum.

If I were wrong, ONE of them were scum. Or else I've blown it forever, and I can flush my mafia analysis system down the toilet.





I was a townie. I banked everything on Andres and Tincow, from DAY 2.


Edit: on the chance that one was town, you have your final man: (Taka, White_eyes, Sigurd)

And who put the final emphasis on Andres? Sigurd. But I swear he's townie.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well somebody better talk to me, because I feel like a jackass up here talking to myself.

[taka]

however, all is not lost, THERE IS ONE last thing that might catch the mafia, and it all depends on tonight.

[Askthepizzaguy]

why so cryptic, Taka? Please explain.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, I'll humor you for a bit.

Your hours of time, analysis, and your system have all pointed to Andres and TinCow.

My five minutes of intuition from reading a couple of their posts and PMs have pointed to their innocence.

May the best man win. :beam:

[taka]

why so cryptic, Taka? Please explain.

i will say it after the night, i cannot say it now

[Askthepizzaguy]

One of us owes the other a big apology.


I am warming up the humble pie in the oven. Someone's going to be eating it.

[GeneralHankerchief]

One of us owes the other a big apology.


I am warming up the humble pie in the oven. Someone's going to be eating it.

I'll be waiting for this one along with the one you owe me (again, considering your change of heart) from Ephesus. :wink:

[taka]

im seriously gutted, i dont wanna carry on

andres, if u was innocent, why didnt you trust us!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll be waiting for this one along with the one you owe me (again, considering your change of heart) from Ephesus. :wink:

You're scum in that one, or you can't hit the ground with a basketball, mister "I can block/defend two people a night for seven nights and still not catch the mafia or defend real townies"


He's a funny guy! :laugh2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

im seriously gutted, i dont wanna carry on

andres, if u was innocent, why didnt you trust us!

Funny how he will turn on anyone here, so long as he can build a convincing case to kill you instead of him.

This is agonizing torture and Seireikhaan loves it. Andres too.

[Askthepizzaguy]

:bow:

[Thermal]

is this a spam party atpg? can i join?

[taka]

yes i know i will probably be lynch bait next if im not killed

[Thermal]

yes i know i will probably be lynch bait next if im not killed

if you are innocent mafia will avoid killing you now you've said that :wall:

[taka]

if you are innocent mafia will avoid killing you now you've said that :wall:

they deffinately wont kill me now that u said that aswell lol

[Thermal]

they deffinately wont kill me now that u said that aswell lol

but now you've said that that said that, even though you said that before i said that, but after i said that, mafia might kill you :clown:

[taka]

i would rather mafia killed me to prove my innocence than to leave me around for another round of voting

[Reenk Roink]

OH MY GOD! Kill Sigurd PLEASE! :wall:

[taka]

OH MY GOD! Kill Sigurd PLEASE! :wall:

reasons?

any help would be help at this point

[White_eyes:D]

Hopefully.....we both die tonight, taka I don't want to be here when "the :daisy: hit's the fan" If my thoughts are right....Khaan is a "sick and twisted man" (then again anyone who plays more then 1 or 2 games with him knows this:yes:) and gave the role to either a semi-lurker....or the newest player...:dizzy2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

*told Seireikhaan I wouldn't post anymore... must... resist... urge... *

Ah, but that was if he confirmed to me that we did win. He hasn't so far. But I would not be surprised if he's toying with us, especially me. He would have told me by now, 4 hours later, if the game continued or not, after I asked him.

But then again I leave room I could be wrong.





I will be gone for several days, so on the chance I was wrong and game still continues, you can figure out on your own who to lynch. I can virtually guarantee you, you lynched a mafia the past two rounds. However, sometimes, statistical analysis can fail.

In that case, use good old fashioned deductive reasoning. Look at the votes. Look at the votes.



This has been Askthepizzaguy, never shutting up. I bid thee good night. :bow:

[LittleGrizzly]

Ok so we have Taka WE Sigurd Boudica and Beefy

Sigurd could be pulling reverse physcology but im leaning towards a not scum verdict

I would concentrate on Taka and boudica... just a hunch...

I think WE is innocent, not completely sure though...

and Beefy i dont think is the scum...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also a good idea to wait and see who dies, if anyone does.


Let the mafia point out who is innocent by murdering them.

I'd leave it up to the murdered townies ONLY as to who must die.




All murdered townies should show up and give an opinion. I was lynched, and if the game continues, I'm not sure you will want my further analysis, because I'mma be ticked off at myselfs.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you do want my analysis, tell me now, because otherwise I won't be studying the thread when I go home trying to redeem myself.