View Full Version : HOTSEAT - French King's Court - SS6.2 Hotseat Council Thread
The Lemongate
05-29-2009, 06:05
The Palais de la Cité is a sprawling complex of structures straddling the Île de la Cité on the Seine in the middle of Paris. First built in Roman times to house a military garrison, it has been upgraded ever since to suit the needs of the various rulers of Paris. Fortified to resist the attacks of Frankish and Norman raiders in the early Middle Ages, the Palais now serves as the seat of power of the Capetian dynasty. The King of the Franks holds hist court in the Grande Salle. Here he receives the grand barons of France, the prelates of the Church and the burghers of various chartered cities. Recently, embassadors from all over the world have been gathering in Paris to form a great council of nations at the call of King Philippe de France.
Dressed in fine silks from the best artisans of Sicily and sporting various rings and other jewels, King Philippe greets them personally in his throne room.
PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING OOC IN THIS THREAD.
Cultured Drizzt fan
05-29-2009, 11:11
A emissary of the Normans arrives, he is a small man dressed in somber cloths, his face is thin and angry looking and he walks with his back almost painfully rigid.
King William sends his regard to King Philip. I am John Kenneth, King Williams chosen representative in the court of his FORMER king. (it is glaringly obvious the representative is trying to point out the Normans very recent split with the Franks) However, my king still respects king Philip, and I am also here to see if we can discuss terms for an alliance, and a Military treaty. In private preferably.
The representative waits for the Franks response.
A diplomat and two escorts would follow him from the Fatamid Caliphate would arrive shortly after the Norman one. His face on the other had is rather excitidly and so would be the escorts.
Caliph Al-Munstansir sends the diplomat posted in Rome, to now Paris. We are excited, As I and my escorts are fond of western culture. Though we doubt any diplomacy here can deal with our Caliph in Cairo. We will be ready to listen.
The Lemongate
05-29-2009, 13:18
King Philippe observe the Norman emissary's entrance with a calm expression and the hint of a smile. His eyes betray the slightest twitch at the man's barb, but he courteously sends a squire to fetch a chair for his guest, a rare honour in the Court of France. His stare hardens when he sees the Saracens and waves a servant away to take care of the exotic guests.
The King lifts a white-gloved hand to silence the Court.
We are grateful for your presence mes seigneurs. Sieur John Kenneth, I shall have my chancellor, Monseigneur Étienne de Reims, take care of the administrative details regarding an entente between Our Majesty and the Duke of Normandy but we are inclined to agree to the principle of an alliance. In the meantime gentlemen, welcome to the Kingdom of the Franks.
The King lowers his hand and nods to an elderly man of imposing stature standing besides him whose red and white flowing robes clearly identifies him as a cardinal of the Holy Catholic Church. At the clap of the clergyman's hands, young men bring in additional chairs for the expected arrivals. Tables are pulled to the sides of the room were a rich banquet is being served.
Ignoramus
05-29-2009, 14:15
An Aragonese nobleman arrives, attended by two tall knights, clad in full mail armour.
We salute you, Philippe, King of the Franks!
Your highness, my name is Garcia de Hierro, I come representing Sancho, King of Aragon.
Our king has sent us to negotiate an alliance between your fair realm and our fledgling kingdom. We are particularly concerned with the continued Moorish presence in Andalusia, and seek to strengthen ties with your kingdom.
I believe negotiations about claims upon neighbouring lands should also be discussed.
The Lemongate
05-29-2009, 15:17
A simple flexion of the wrist from the King has servants scurrying in ten different directions. Two men pull in a large oak table that they set in the center of the room, between the King and the assembling diplomats, while another unfolds a large map of Europe, North Africa, the Baltic and the Middle East. On it are represented the various nations and the lands that they currently claim.
https://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww333/CocaColaRevolution/StainlessSteelFactionsMap.jpg
A young woman clothed in a loose fitting dress poses a smaller map next to it. And remains by the tableside.
https://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww333/CocaColaRevolution/FranceClaims.jpg
Philippe gestures towards the second map.
Welcome to Paris, Sieur Garcia de Hierro. You are indeed right, We have called this Council of Nations to discuss of exactly such matters and it is high time we started.
We plan to push the borders of the royal demesne from the English Channel to the Mediterranean. These lands are already under Our de jure jurisdiction and with the help of God, the rebellious nobles who oppose Our will shall be dealt with in a fair and swift fashion. We require the assistance of no outside sovereign in this enterprise and wish your Majesties the best of fortune in establishing your authority on your respective lands.
The young woman smiles mischeviously as Philippe speaks. When he is done, she turns invitingly towards the assembled emissaries and gives them a radiant smile.
"We have finally arrived master, though we are a bit late."
Do not worry Andreas. The secret of Diplomacy lies in how you present yourself. Being late is a way to tell that you are willing to come and negociate, but that you will not let yourself be confined by other's rule.
"I see" says the servant.
The Emissary, his servant and 2 cohorts enters the grand palace of the French King and walk along his unending hallways. As they arrive at massive iron twin-doors, the emissary raises his chin high and speaks to the soldiers guarding the door.
I am Gabrielus Angelus. I have come in the name of my sole Emperor, Alexius Comnenus, at the request of the Grand King Philippe.
Silence, followed by a loud grinding. A stream of light falls upon Gabrielus's face as the twin-doors open before him.
The Fatamid Diplomat bows to thank the French court and servants for their kindness.
We thank the French King for treating the Caliph's Servants well. Once the French gain back their losses in Southern France, Please talk to us to start recieving our trade shipments, as all should know, the Nile River is the greatest output of Grain. As for all other nations, We offer Trade to all nations, Though. We are not so eager to call out alliances. As we are not able to rightfully support an ally if needed. We wish peace for all members in the court. May Allah pr...
He Just realizes that this is not an islamic court.
May our gods protect us for days to come, The Caliph and his subjects praise the King of France for his judgement to call this Diplomatic Court into effect.
He would sit down, Trying to see if any food would be served shortly.
Ramses II CP
05-29-2009, 22:08
A beautiful young man, whipcord thin with perfect skin the color of the finest calf leather, enters the court. He is dressed in exceptional finery, fingers bedecked in rings, and bears himself proudly as he strides to within an appropriate distance of the King. With a deep bow the representative addresses the King in nearly flawless French,
"It is my very great pleasure to be the representative of Caliph Tahir to the court of King Phillipe. I am instructed to make it known that the highest aims of my people are peace, an end to petty rebellion, a blossoming of trade, and the free spread of knowledge to all the many varieties of the children of Allah, his will be done.
In response to the comments from the emissary of Aragorn let me say simply that my people are not at all concerned with the continued presence of Christians in Andalusia, or indeed in all of Iberia. Not in the slightest.
Indeed, variety is one of the many blessings of Allah most merciful and it pleases the princes of my land to no end that their subjects follow their hearts to the worship of Allah each in their own way. All men of good conscience and true intent will be welcome within the borders of the (A deliberate pause and slight look of discomfort add emphasis to the words) Moorish Empire, may it endure forever.
To all who intend peace we throw open our arms with joy! To all who wish trade we heartily wish the same!
To all others, let there be a simple warning; what Allah has given to his chosen will remain with them.
The Caliph has no territorial claims to present at this time, but rebels that border his lands should stand warned; their time is near an end. As for the claims of our very great host, we see them as good, just, and inevitable and encourage all present to support them by popular acclaim.
With a carefully bland glance around the chamber the diplomat then seeks his nation's place.
:egypt:
Cultured Drizzt fan
05-29-2009, 22:20
John watches the moor and Spanish diplomats, as if trying to decide something. He looks Garcia de Hierro.
If Argon ever needs assistance in their reconquista, they need but ask, England is quite willing to join their Cristian brothers on a holy crusade.
England would also like to make it known that any nation which chooses to ally itself with Ireland or Scotland shall soon enough find themselves on the wrong end of a English spear.
The Diplomats from both Scotland and Ireland shift at this, especially considering England had not even declared war on them yet. It was a bold claim.
The Lemongate
05-29-2009, 22:58
At the mention of the mohammedan god, King Philippe exchanges a glance with the Archbishop of Reims. There seems to be a mute understanding between them. After but a short moment, Étienne de Reims bows his head and takes his leave from the court. Philippe's expression remains calm and unchanged when he fixes the Fatimid envoy anew.
Religion is the bread and water of the soul. We endeavour to have it guide our every decision and live a life as is prescribed by the Holy Scriptures and invite every man to do so as well for the salvation of his eternal soul. However, for the purpose of this Council, we understand the need for the mohammedan saracens to call upon the name of their god. Do not worry Saracen, in this place, no harm will come to you over this.
He takes a pause, as if choosing his next words.
And we thank you for your offer to establish commercial relations with our Crown. We must however decline for now.
Philippe's gaze then fixes intently the moorish diplomat, as if trying to see through his thoughts. The saracen returns a respectful gaze. Turning to the other people of the court, his eyes linger for a second on the girl by the map before moving on. He gives a small nod to acknowledge the presence of Roman Emperor's ambassador. Upon hearing John Kenneth, the Anglo-Norman emissary, he signals for a scribe to read a small document bearing his official seal:
His Majesty Philippe pledges to respect the territorial claims of the Duke of Normandy both in England and on the continent and the Duke swears never to claim any additional land in continental Europe as long as His Majesty Philippe sits on the throne of the Franks.
These conditions having been found fair by both parties His Majesty Philippe swears by Saint Denis and Saint Martin to be a friend of Lord William and of the Normans, to bring them succour in battle and to send prayers to God for their continued good health and good fortunes.
Philippe I de France,
Roi des Francs par la Grace de Dieu
barcamartin
05-30-2009, 00:37
A dusty man, dressed in expensive capes above light mail, enters the room.
' I am Abdhul, and I will be the Seljuk Sultan's voice in this chamber. First off, he wishes to thank the Frankish king for the invitation. Secondly, he extends hands of trade and prosperity to all nations. He especially wishes close friendship with his muslim brethren in the glorious Fatimid Caliphate and in the endless lands of the Moors. Lastly, should the representative from Constantinople show up, we have things to discuss. '
With this he puts a note on his seat, and leaves the court room with the same elegant haste with which he entered.
The Fatamid Diplomat would cough and look at Gabrielus Angelus
I know he doesn't look like a roman... Ahhh well...
He would try not to laugh.
Gabrielus is sitting at the table eating very little, more glancing at the other diplomats. Andreas, his servant, stands behind him with a bunch of scrolls in his hands, nervous.
"Sir..."
I know. Dot not let yourself stray from our true purpose. This is not a time for bickering but for negociations.
The servant standing behind his master shifts uneasely. Gabrielus places his eblows on the table, crosses his hands in front of him, lay his head on top of his newly joined hands and whispers:
But shall they wish to look at us from above, then let them be. It will only get them to underestimate us and by the time they find out, it will be too late.
The servant let slip a bit of a smile and regains his composure. Gabrielus then rises from his seat.
Now, I believe the Seljuk ambassador wishes to see us. Let us go then.
Gabrielus and his servant salute the members of the court politely and leave after the embassador.
Cultured Drizzt fan
05-30-2009, 13:39
John laughs, not a jolly laugh but a mocking one, his blue eyes taking in all the other diplomats escorts.
I did not realize we were expected to bring an armed guard with us, I had assumed this was to be a place of peace! perhaps having groups of armed men in a place where debates can be quite heated is not the best idea!
John nods at king Philip in agreement to his declaration, and runs his hand through his black hair, he walks out of the room for a moment, perhaps to tell a messenger of the good news. when he returns he seems to be in a very good mood
We are all glad that the franks are willing to see the value of peace. John say, a look of respect on his face. May this be the beginning of a long age of prosperity for the Franks and Normans.
The Fatamid would scratch is beard that looks like it has never been cut or shaved before. Then makes a side comment to John.
I do not know many excuses of other nations who bring full "Knights" when they are only a short ways away. The weapons were only needed just incase of any thing going bad on the long way from Gaza to Paris, As you can predict, It is a very long journy. These Escorts are used for not only personal protection, but also carrying supplies. The Caliph means no alarms to any one by bringing escorts.
He would look around at the Roman and Aragon's Escorts.
I would rather say though, It is rather funny to see some nations bringing full armed escorts in full heavy armour and such, for only a short journy. As you can see though...
He would point at his escort's, and his own empty sheaths
A sign that we trust the Frankish King of our protection, and a sign of peace. We have left our swords in our rooms, as they were only be used for the journey, not the destination.
He would smile at the court... and still look around for any food...
We would like to openly propose for a defensive alliance to be set up with the Seljuk Sultanate, As well as a Trade Alliance and Map Information.
He would sit down... Eagerly awaiting food.
phonicsmonkey
05-31-2009, 07:58
The doors of the Court are flung open wide with a crash, and in bursts a huge, barrel-chested, dark-haired, ruddy-cheeked man with an enormous moustache.
He is wearing brand new clothes in all the latest fashions, but looks as though he got dressed just before dawn, which is probably when he had his first drink of the day.
He strides with a sailor's gait to the centre of the Courtroom floor, where he bows theatrically to the French King. He is followed by a thin priest in Benedictine robes, wearing a long-suffering expression on his gaunt, pale face.
It is I, Jozsef of the Arpad Kingdom of Hungary!
He looks around at the assembled diplomats and courtiers, smiling broadly and quite failing to focus on them individually.
Our great King Laszlo has sent me here to parlay with you fine fellows! And to offer our great respect and honour to the most noble King of France, whose hospitality is legendary!
We Magyar are a peaceful folk, and seek only to be left alone to do the things we enjoy most: riding our swift horses, drinking our fine ale, enjoying the company of our beautiful women, dancing, singing..
The Priest places a hand on his shoulder and whispers in his ear for a moment.
...ah yes, and of course, to pray and worship our Lord Jesus!
So, you fine fellows of all the lands, your merchants are welcome in our markets, and your armies have nothing to fear from us...as long as they stay at home!
He laughs loudly, clapping a leather-clad thigh with one massive palm.
To this end, we offer trade rights and map information to all.
Also, our immediate neighbours have already been contacted in private by our great King Lazslo himself, to discuss the finer points of diplomacy.
He sinks back into a cushioned chair and looks around for a drink.
The Lemongate
05-31-2009, 22:56
King Philippe allows himself a short grin as the Magyar ambassador, Jozsef, reaches his seat. His expression soon returns to its noble and passionless complexion.
He signals again for a scribe to read from a small document bearing the seal of the Franks.
The Kingdom of the Franks pledges full support to the Crown of Aragon and all Christian rulers of Spain in their ongoing struggle to return their lands in the forgiving arms of the Church.
Furthermore, the Kingdom of the Franks recongises Aragonese suzerainty over the Kingdom of Navarra and the Emirate of Valencia, which includes the Balearic Isles.
Philippe I de France,
Roi des Francs par la Grace de Dieu
The massive twin-doors open once more to let the Roman Ambassador into the Grande Salle. Swift and silent, he walks to the middle of the room, his servant in tow. Then after a small gesture of the ambassador, the servant opens a large scroll and shows it around the room for everyone to see...
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/falkonesper/RomanClaims.jpg
As of now, in the name of my Basileos, these lands are Roman Territory. We do not seek to expand beyond these borders nor are we eager for a fight, but anyone who tries to capture these provinces will be met with swords and spears. Already one kingdom has seen wisdom and submitted to our will. My Basileos hopes you others will do the same.
With another small gesture, the servant folds the scroll back and follows his master back to a table where the Roman Ambassador sits anew and takes possession of the food placed in front of him.
The Saracen diplomat's brow would raise when they would hear of the land claims that the Romans have made.
As you do "Claim" 10 provinces... You are either Brave, or Foolish. As you have claims for Lands all desired by the Crusaders, The Turks, The Fatamids, The Hungarians, and the Venice Republic...
As the Armenians rebelled against your empire, Which is located in Cillcia. You, on the other hand send your forces to Antioch where the Templar order which is a Catholic force would march as we speak. You go for foolish targets rather than the areas that have just rebelled against your rule not too long ago.
With these such foolish proposals, I only do wonder if the newest Roman Emperor is as mad as his father, and leaders before him as well. As their empire is falling due to their madness. I guess the Romans have not found a sane leader yet...
The diplomat would quickly write something down and hand's it off.
Ambassador Angelus slowly rises up from his seat and leans foward on the table, staring straight at the Fatimid emissary.
I believe that none of the Fatimid lands were touched, and no offense were made against your Caliph. And STILL you are here insulting my Basileos himself with your filthy words. As I still will treat your Caliph will respect whatever happens with you, since I cannot possibly think that a wise Leader could be represented by a pure blood cretin like you. But if you ever again talk trash to my Basileos, me or m people, I will make sure your Caliph know who was responsible for the war that will ensue.
As those words echoes in the Grande Salle, the roman sits back down, grabs a knife, and plunge it fiercly in a plate of red meat. Then, after taking a deep breath, cuts a slice of the meat to place it on his own plate before reaching for more food.
The Fatamid Diplomat would only smirk at him.
Starting wars due to a few pety insults? Now now, It is just free as I can say my opinion on how mad or drunk the emperor was at this time when he made these greedy requests. He might as well demanded Rome from the Pope. As the number of lands he requested more than doubles his already large empire and with out any consideration of his neighbors...
The Fatamid would go back to writing more things down.
Nightbringer
06-03-2009, 04:51
A tall broad chested man dresses in simple but dignified robes enters through the doors. He stops and surveys the room briefly before bowing to the assembled diplomats.
I am Rurik Sviatoslav of the great nation of Kieven Rus, here on behalf of the Great Prince Veliky Knyaz Vsevolad. I apologize for my late arrival but it is a long journey and we received out invitation late. (he says these last words with a hint of bitterness in his voice.)
First of all, I am here to lay claim to those lands that are rightfully ours. The lands of the Steppes are rightfully ours and must merely be brought under control; I trust that none shall find this problematic for it borders none of your great nations.
https://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6310/stainlesssteelfactionsm.th.jpg
Secondly, we wish to establish good relations with our Orthodox brothers the Romans. We have great respect for your empires long history and hope we will become fast friends. In this vein, I propose trade between our peoples, as well as an exchange of map information, and, if it is in the interest of the Romans, a defensive alliance.
To the Hungarians we also extend our warm greetings, and hope that we to may be friends. I offer trade rights between our peoples, and wish to negotiate over where our border shall fall, as soon as the rebels are brought into line that is.
Sitting down, he calmly serves himself a plate of food as he waits for the replies of his fellow diplomats.
phonicsmonkey
06-03-2009, 06:13
The big Magyar stands, somewhat unsteadily, and grins broadly at the Rus, raising his flagon of ale.
We Magyar are pleased to announce that we have formed an alliance with the Rus, and also with each of our other neighbours: the German Romans, the Greek Romans, and the Venetian money men. Although they are not, as we understand it, allied to each other...
He looks a little confused before shrugging and continuing.
In each case we have successfully negotiated our proposed borders and the equal division of the lands that lie between us.
Long may this grand example of friendly and peaceful diplomacy shine a light over our Eastern lands!
Long Live King Laszlo the Diplomat!
He drains his tankard in one long draught before slamming it down on the table in front of him, wiping the froth from his prodigious moustache with the back of his leather-gloved hand, and sinking back into his chair with a contented expression on his ruddy face.
Cultured Drizzt fan
06-03-2009, 12:25
then we all hope none of them choose to go to war with each other, for what would Hungary do then?
John laughs
The Fatamid Diplomat would yawn after hearing every one get along, and stand up.
News from the Caliph has been recieved. A full military alliance will be started with the Seljuk turks for the moment due to the rebellious Tribes and self proclaimed Sultans. Also that the Caliph rejects any claims made into the holy lands besides ones who are already there. As it is Mostly Islamic. As Antioch is almost fully Islam. There is no logical term that the Roman Empire would want to own such a city. As it is just a provoke to hostilities by both of it's bigger and thriving neighbors to the north and south of the city.... What do we expect from, the emperor of rome is rather not in our same world, but he still lives in the world where he owns Rome itself. Ofcourse, We will leave the imbredding emperor alone for now...
The diplomat laughing under his breath wold turn to the newly arived diplomat from the Rus.
Greetings to the newest diplomat here, We are glad to have almost a full table here. Though, Your land claims almost seem as bad as the imbredded emperor..., not as bad though. You must not know the full area that well, We will correct.
The Area from Sarkel and the Caspian sea trade port have been heavily influenced by the Seljuk Turks and the Persian Empire's trade. Though still alot are pegan, I am sad to say that there are almost 3 times more islamic population than there is of an Orthodox population.
The Fatamid Caliph refuses to claim any lands. There for we Ignore all land claims until they are rightfully claimed by force. Not by words.
Before he sits down, he realizes something and just says it.
Oh before I forget, I will be giving a few letters, of more greetings... and maybe 1 to the roman asking if he has 6 fingers from the imbredding... Rumors from my town say his mother was with his older brother. Could explain the 6 fingers...
The Diplomat would sit down grinning.
barcamartin
06-03-2009, 16:14
Feeling the urge to clarify a few things, Abhdul stands.
' I must push the fact that our alliance with the Fatamids is, as my friend noted, a full alliance, but at this time purely defensive and aimed at securing our nations current and future independency. We will however stand as one against oppressors and self-proclaimed rulers of lands rightfully ours.
Although the lands north of the Caucasus mountains may be heavily influenced by my peoples culture and religion, my Sultan has no claims to those lands. '
Content with his contribution, he sits back into his chair.
I heartly greet the emissary of Prince Veliky Knyaz Vsevolad. It is with great pleasure that we accept to exchange trade rights and maps. I hope this this new "friendship" lasts long and prosper.
As for our Claims to Antiochia ad Orontem, if you would take the time to search into older archives, you will find that this Grand City once belonged to The Great Roman Empire, long before you were even born. The City was named after Antiochus, son of Seleucus I Nicator, who founded city. The city was stolen from us by the al-Rashidun Caliphate. We only with it to be returned to us, though we are not in a hurry. We are a patient nation. Eventually, the city will come back to us. In the mean-time, we wish to consolidate our rightfull lands and relationships with our neighbors.
As he finishes his sentence, Gabrielus Angelus turns towards the King of the Franks.
Oh great king of the Franks. As you can surely observe, one of us here has taken in himself the mission to force madness into our minds. I believe this to be an ultimatly disrespectfull action towards the true goal of this court and similarly towards your grand self. The decision is yours in the end, but if no actions are taken against this, then I will have to excuse myself and ask my two armed escorts who are eager to repair our Basileos's reputation to do so. I understand that the Fatimids would have no swords to defend themselves since they seemed to have misplaced them. And I would urge all others, with all due respect, to let me give them punishment, for I truely believe they deserve it. Honestly, this is not a declaration of war against the Caliphate, but simply the punishment of one individual who have wronged me and my Basileos.
And if by sad unfortunate circumptances, I am not allowed to do so, then I shall respectfully return to Konstantinopolis.
What say you to this King Philippe?
The Fatamid Diplomat would only laugh
Please, Do not go say that the city of Antioch used to be roman...
You could easily say that Rome, Sicily, Venice, Every on used to be roman. Things have changed for the best.
These cities have all revolted against your kingdom, and now your "Empire" is a smile pathetic dream of what it once used to be. To claim a city that has no Orthodox religion, is just an insult to the caliph. The City revolted against your king almost 400 of years. That city is all Islam with a tiny bit of Catholic, but no Orthodox.
It is quite simple that "claiming" something of this, has sparked my Caliph. And if you wish to do your "Punishment" then it is war. Words are one thing, even your peasents say how inbreded your emperor is, any physical actions against the Caliph's property is a treaty of war. Nor would we ever physically fight inside of a western king's palace of which he invited us to.
This wouldn't of started if your inbredded emperor made such mad request to claim islamic cities. If your emperor has any since at all he would know that would only provoke the islamic neighbors. We grant who ever is on these lands stay on these lands, considering if it is Catholic or Islam, but the Eastern Roman Empire has been removed some 400 years ago, And they will stay removed.
The French king has aloud every nation to give their opinion on matters, and this is the opinion of the Fatamids, We spit on you for even trying to "Claim" a city with none of your religion. As our courts go, Diplomats use words. We are using words to describe how wrong your inbred emperor is. If my reasoning skills are too harmful to your ears, enough so you have to ask a king of another nation to physically punish another diplomat. Then you are no diplomat. You are simply a fool. If the King wishes for me to hold myself. He can do that, and we, the Fatamid's humble servants, will listen to the Frankish King due to we respect him. but that may only be a tiny cloth over the snake's head of how much we despise of you and your inbreded emperor.
Cultured Drizzt fan
06-03-2009, 20:18
John turns towards the roman diplomat a scowl on his face.
already we have talk of punishment.... again I say this is a house of PEACE! and you would have blood shed for the sake of a small slight... this is EXACTLY the reason arms should not be permitted in this hall. if we are allowed to start butchering each other with no regard for diplomacy then what is the point of this place? I have no authority to stop you, but I urge Philip to keep the peace. The fatamids may be acting in poor tastes,
John throws a bitter glance at the Fatamids as well but that does not give you the right to punish him in any way. your laws have no authority here, none of ours do. this is Philips court and we should all remember that.
Gabrielus Angelus ignores the nameless diplomat and stares at the King of Franks, waiting for an answer.
Cultured Drizzt fan
06-03-2009, 20:57
John sighs and returns to his seat, whispering under his breath
I think we can all see why the Romans fell..... hubris. perhaps the Fatamids have a point.
A portly man in bright livery scratches his balding head while consulting various documents. Setting them aside he rises to address all present.
I suppose now is a good time as any to announce that the Republic of Venice outright refuse the preposterous defensive alliance proposed by the Fatimids in secret. Our Doge doesn't know if he should be impressed or insulted by the gall these moslems have shown in thinking we would sign any sort of agreement with them, even more so against our friends and neighbors the Romans.
I couldn't help but overhear this argument about Antioch. Wasn't Antioch in Roman hands but only two years ago? Answer me, Fatimid diplomat, perhaps you see Armenian rebels who grabbed power within the city as legitimate rulers, who truly care for the Roman citizens still in the city? Nay! The Romans are the legitimate rulers of that most Christian city, which was the seat of one of the five Patriarchs. Of course, we certainly could not expect a backward kingdom ruled by ignorant barbarians to know anything of history.
*The man sits down again, looking bored as he rifles through his documents once more.*
The Fatamid diplomat would sigh, and face palm.
How would a European know any thing about affairs in the east. They have been under different rulers for awhile. The Point I am trying to put is that the citizens has no Orthodox affiliation with them. The Romans are not Islam.
If you want me to currently refresh you abit. This CURRENT state, Antioch is 82% Islam, 8% catholic, and 2% Orthodox, and 8% of the the other religions. That is very... Christian? The reason why the city revolted against the Roman empire.
(OOC: I could just sit back and tell people to hug me and that I'm a care bear. I rather like throwing insults in a boring council meeting =p )
The Fatamid diplomat would sigh, and face palm.
How would a European know any thing about affairs in the east. They have been under different rulers for awhile. The Point I am trying to put is that the citizens has no Orthodox affiliation with them. The Romans are not Islam.
If you want me to currently refresh you abit. This CURRENT state, Antioch is 82% Islam, 8% catholic, and 2% Orthodox, and 8% of the the other religions. That is very... Christian? The reason why the city revolted against the Roman empire.
So you say Armenian are moslems now? (not my fault if the game does not reflect history, historically there were way more Christians than Moslems) Really, did you walk in the streets yourself to get those numbers or did you simply made them up because you are not able to defend your position?
Rough Estimates, but the ruler of that city is quite sure of his numbers.
(OOC RESPONSE: Islamic courts where all of the independant islamic sultans and caliphs meat. they also drink whine and bet on horse racing Theres a big sign as well that says the current population and religion right in front of the city. Theres a mosque that has a big city now, that just says on a gaint billboard "SELJUK REBELS" Not my fault either, but hey, if we went with the history went, We'd know the outcome of every thing.)
*The portly man yawns.*
(What else than history would you use to discuss of the years before the game starts? Also, considering getting all the information you are posting would be impossible to gather in that time period, I'm choosing to ignore that part of your argument. :shrug:)
The Lemongate
06-04-2009, 02:13
Though most of the court's dignitaries have been following the debate raging between the Roman and Fatimid envoys and their respective backers, the cautious few who have kept sight of the king have seen his calm countenance melt steadily through the stream of nonsensed professed in his court. When the Venician diplomat chips in, the king's eyes, like daggers dissecting a corpse, cut from one boisterous man to the next with dread intensity.
With a sudden burst, Philippe springs to his feet, sending the plates of food clattering down the dais of his throne. Towering above the crowd, his voice booming over the cacophonus din of bickering noblemen, he lets out a roar that silences everyone.
The whole room pauses. For a moment that seems an eternity, no one dares a breath.
The king's voice is eerily soft after such an outrageous display.
You!
He points the Roman.
And you...
His look goes to the Fatimid.
You are a disgrace! To threaten to lift up arms in my court! Do you think you're mercenaries could've even drawn their blades before an arrow was lodged in both their eyes? As for this crude slandering of a noble and christian prince, I have never even heard of such infamy even coming from the lowest dreg, let alone an ambassador supposed to represent a noble people.
You will cease your inanities at once. Or the next message your kings will receive from this court are your heads on a platter.
With this the king, followed by his guards and courtiers storms out of the court. The young woman that was overseeing the maps scuttles after him. There remains, standing besides the throne, the Archbishop of Rheims, his face a stern mask of disapproval.
After the king has left the fatamid diplomat sighed. Though... he had a slight smirk.
look where your emperor's requests got us now, we're both in trouble. Though... we never solved our arguement over Antioch... As our Caliph said before, "I doubt any diplomacy in Paris will change any thing in Cairo."... I wonder if any thing useful will come out of this court besides us babbling over territories.
The Lemongate
06-04-2009, 03:37
The Archbishop's frown lightens into a little grin.
I would not be so sure that the distant East remains so distant in the near future. You might well wish to soften the tone of your "diplomatic" entreaties and make friends rather then enemies. Most Christian kings already find you in disrepute, saracen.
There is an eery feeling of menace in the holy man's words.
The roman had frozen since king Philippe had started speaking. Never has he seen such anger and supremacy in one's tone, even his basileos. As the archbishop sentence ended, a shiver ran through his spine and woke him up from what seemed to be a very long moment of reflection and regret. As his head turned around, he found his servant livid, terrified. He then realized.
Holy Archbishop! I believe I owe the King an apology, though I'm sure he won't be in the mood to hear me out when he comes back. He invited me into his house to talk about peace and what have I done? I am the one who insulted him by threatening others in his court . He is right, I AM a disgrace. I simply hope he finds it in his heart to forgive my irrespectful behavior.
The roman then sends his two escorts away leaving only him and his servant behind. Then whispers.
We have learned an important lesson today Andreas. Indeed we have...
...
Such eloquent silence, it truly becomes you. Please, do continue.
The Lemongate
06-04-2009, 04:25
Ignoring the Venitian, the Archbishop acquiescence Angelus' words with a nod.
The king is authoritative but fair. He holds no grudges unless they are deserved.
With that done, and to offer an apology to the Romans. Hopefully we can work this out another way. As the Romans are in range for our grain exports. We would like to grant them for Trade rights if they with do. Though, I wish to discuss Antioch in private matters with the Roman.
Perhaps we have been too harsh. We will soon talk to the Romans in private terms.
He would lower his head toward the Roman, then turn to the diplomat from venice.
Though with the Venice, With such hostile ways. I would still offer my grain support to your island of Iraklion (IE TRADE). but I doubt you will accept.
The Doge will accept trade with anyone, even moslems, provided they show a proper amount of respect and manners. You seem to be showing a certain understanding in these manners. We can both agree to disagree on the matter of Antioch, leave the issue at that, and move on to something more productive, or we can hurl insults at each other for a few more days before the noble king of France tires of this and throws us out of his court.
We accept your offer of trade, but we still decline the defensive pact you offered, for obvious reasons.
Nightbringer
06-04-2009, 06:24
Ah, now that you two are done bickering, I hope that we may return to more friendly discussion.
As to our claims on the regions along the caspian sea, it may be true that Islamic influence there is strong, but they are under the rule of none except themselves, also, we have already reached an agreement with the Seljuks that the border between our cultures will be drawn at the natural barrier of the Caucasus.
We also realize that our claims may seem a little large at this time, but these are all barbaric and ungoverned lands at this time, and no other people have a claim upon them. Therefor we see it as being polite to state that these are territories which should rightfully belong to our people.
We are also glad to confirm the anouncment of an alliance with Hungary, the Magyar have displayed to us that they are reasonable and wish for peace and prosperity between us.
Along with drawing the Caucasus as a dividing line we are also to establish trade with the Seljuk Sultanate.
It is my hope that the Romans will also be so kind as to establish trade with us, for it could only lead to our mutual benefit.
sitting back down, Rurik continues eating, smiling broadly at everyone
The hall doors open, and a tall man in a red cape with white fur on the shoulders and a strange horned helmet enters. He has no aides, no servants, no sergeants, not even a a man to carry his great axe. He bows politely and announces in a grave voice
I am Gerbrand Eliassen, and I speak for the King of all Danes, Knud. If you have any matters or interests in the baltic region, you will have to speak to me. We seek good relations with all the great countries represented here, but we know that a kind word and an axe can bring most of the times more results than just a kind word.
He then takes the biggest seat he can find and calmly begins to fill a plate with food from the big table.
Cultured Drizzt fan
06-09-2009, 21:44
England is quite open to trade with the Danes, and perhaps an alliance that will benefit us both.
also, I just wish to make sure I understand the terms of our agreement with franks, what exactly is continental Europe to you? is England barred from marching on any land in Europe or just the main area of continent, (IE, France, and Germnay)
Ramses II CP
06-09-2009, 23:17
The diplomat of the Moors inclines his head and winks at the Englishman's laughably obvious nitpicking.
:egypt:
The Lemongate
06-10-2009, 05:37
A French servant passes a note to John Kenneth. The Englishmen seems satisfied with its contents.
Gerbrand Eliassen walks close to the english emisary, and speaks:
We will always welcome trade links with our neighbors, so we accept your offer. About the alliance, we will have to discuss it in more detail, at a time of your convenience.
A tall, older man, perhaps in his fifties, clothed richly in dark red hues, strides into the room. His eyes are a steel blue, his hair silvery, but still full, and his nose hooked like an eagle's beak over his thin lips, which are clean-shaven. He looks toward the fat, balding fellow supposedly representing Venice. The merchant looks shocked to see this man here.
"So... you thought you could just come to this meeting and claim that you were representing the Republic, Agostino?"
"My... my lord, I apologize dearly! I was only hoping to acquire new trade routes-"
"No doubt involving solely your own merchant ships. The greed of your kind appalls me sometimes. Leave this place at once, and go back to your business in Venice immediately. Do not let me see you here in Paris again, or I will make you regret it."
"Y-Yes, my lord. Pardon me, it shall be done at once."
With that, the short man scurries quickly out of the building. The older lord turns his attention to the table.
"Greetings, my friends. I am sorry that you had to suffer through that pretender of a diplomat. I am the right hand of the Doge of Venice himself, Antonio Lanzuoli. I am also known as the Duke of Ancona. On behalf of Venice, I would like to offer free trade with any nation here that wishes it; we are, after all, a most serene Republic, and war is the least of our concerns. The only peoples we will be warring with are rebels and pretenders who deserve to die anyway- and this includes our friends the Genoese. Additionally, I would like to speak with the representatives of Hungary, Sicily, and the German Empire of Rome more privately to discuss Venetian... trade interests. Thank you."
The Duke of Ancona seats himself.
The Fatamid diplomat looks rather bored, looking around seeing if any one would pipe up, then gives up and stands up.
Greetings from the Fatamid Caliphate. As you are one of our closest neighbors, or well, your colony on the island Iraklion is. We would be happy to publicly ask for trade rights to your colony on Iraklion. Making Iraklion, an ideal trade sea port from the far east, to the far west... We will await for your answer. If you do accept, We will send the diplomat to Iraklion.
He would pause for a second, then continue
I am sorry to announce this all to the court, but the Caliphate at this time rejects ANY merchants, diplomats, as well of of course, spies, assassins, and priests in his lands. We will have official finalizing diplomats near Rome, and Constantinople. We simply ask of you to respect our demands. Last but not least, any foreign navies or armies near our coast line, military troops near OR inside of our borders will be responded as an act of war. Any agents who ignore this, and still send into our lands, will be executed. Please report to me if you have any of the above, and please ask permission if you so need to do this. We will respond with the utmost haste.
It is not my, or my master's will to gain any enemies, but it is for security measures. We hope you all understand, and respect our most simple requests.
The Fatamid diplomat would sit back down.
The Duke of Ancona turns to the Saracen diplomat, giving him an inquisitive stare.
Of course, we will accept trade with Fatimid Egypt gladly, sir diplomat, but I must ask the sense behind not allowing agents from other nations into your country. The ban on spies and assassins, of course, I fully understand and support. But restricting all diplomats and merchants- surely this will only result in restricted trade and diplomacy! If everyone imposed the sorts of rules you did, we would be unable to have diplomatic talks at all.
The aging man then turns to address the rest of the council.
Furthermore, pursuing an unrelated subject, the Doge has contacted me with a list of areas he considers to be necessary for Venetian trade interests. He has provided me with a map for easy perception.
https://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/Chaotix2732/Hotseat%20Games/StainlessSteelVeniceClaimsCropped.jpg
Venice will soon be subjugating the nearby independent cities of Milan, Zagreb, and Florence. We will also be relieving the treacherous Genoese of their capital, and placing our... permanent protection over the Papacy. Finally, Venice is willing to negotiate a large sum with the Holy Roman Empire for the control of Blogna, if at all possible.
Cultured Drizzt fan
07-08-2009, 16:34
Bold claims Venice..... Then again it would appear most of the nations here are quite adept at Bold claims......
The Lemongate
07-08-2009, 17:25
The Archbishop of Reims' eyes flare up when the Duke of Ancona reveals his map. His voice crashes down on the Council with terrible imprecation and menace:
Retract your blashphemous claims from the lands of the Holy See at once or you shall soon find yourself at odds with France and many members of this Council! The Holy Father is not some sort of unaligned, petty prince whose frivolous claims can be pushed aside! Should your armies dare to even set foot within his dominion, be assured that France and all those who wish to call her friend will drive down upon you with such a terrible wrath that nothing of your demesne will remain standing and your vile heresy will be wiped from the pages of the histories! It is already bold enough for you to menace your christian neighbors in Genoa, do not compound your impious greed with sins.
Turning towards the Fatimid envoy and cooling the fire of his words, the Archbishop continues:
Your demands to restrain the movement of agents in your lands is understandable, but since the Holy City of Jerusalem falls within your sphere of influence, surely, you would allow the faithful and the duly appointed representatives of the Christian Kings of Europe to have access to such an important site? It would be viewed most auspiciously if you would grant us such a right.
phonicsmonkey
07-08-2009, 22:11
The Hungarian Priest stands to address the Court. Just as he is about to speak, he is interrupted by Jozsef, who belches loudly and openly. The Priest shoots him a withering stare, is rewarded with an apologetic shrug and rueful grin, and turns back to the Court to proceed.
Ahem.
It is clear that there has been some error in the construction of this map. Our ally the Doge of Venice can surely not expect those gathered here to accept a plan for his armies to breach the gates of the Vatican City! Why this would automatically place him at war with the whole of Christendom, our own Kingdom included.
We expect that his representative will clarify this position, and withdraw this inconceivable claim as soon as possible.
Cultured Drizzt fan
07-08-2009, 22:25
John laughs, taking the whole situation far less seriously then the other diplomats
You have done it now Venice, Perhaps you should revoke your claims soon before we burn you as a heretic!
Ofcourse we accept that, We will just require you to inform of us of the exact details when you are planned to leave.
The sturdy roman diplomat looks at the scene and smiles. Then he slowly bends toward his servant and says:
Look at this Andreas, can you recognize what this is?
"A fight between kingdoms of the same religion?"
More than that my dim-witted companion, it is an opportunity to gain more land... and without angering anyone. If Italy acts and conquer they Papacy, everyone will be against them. And what will there be for us in this war?
"Nothing master... this war doesn't concern us... I don't see how we can acquire more..."
Gabrielus slaps slightly the back of the head of his servant and looks at him severly.
If this war blooms, we will assist the christian kings in retaking Italy, and by doing so, maybe gain a few more provinces like Dalmatia and Croatia, which will bring us closer to our ancestral home. Now I don't believe the Basileos wishes to conquer Rome, as it would anger the same lords that would have helped us gain these territories, but having a foot back in Italy would be comforting don't you think?
"Of course master" replies the servant, rubbing lightly the back of his head...
Cultured Drizzt fan
07-09-2009, 00:05
John speaks up not hearing the Romans but guessing there intent
Ahh look already the Byzantines plot! I would not get to worked up over Venice my friends, I am quite sure he will understand the error in his ways and relent.
Ramses II CP
07-09-2009, 02:12
A small smile quirks the elegant lips of the Moorish diplomat before he speaks,
Come, come gentlemen. What's this talk of oppression and war? The Venetians merely offer to guard the Pope and ward the citizens of Rome. Would the Pope seriously reject such a grand and noble gesture? Perhaps the Venetian Doge has already spoken with your spirtual leader regarding his plans and has the good man's assent?
The Sultan has dispatched a diplomat to Rome. In the meantime my people consider the Venetians to be embarking on a glorious project of good faith towards all of Christendom, and as such they have our support, such as it is.
:egypt:
The Fatamid shakes his head at disgust.
I have no comment toward this, As it was a mistake, or maybe he means more than he has told us.
Though, Since we are all arguing over this, I will lay down my master's map claims.
https://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7610/fatamidlands.jpg
The Dark Gold is our current Empire and front lines.
The Bright Yellow is rebels, smaller insignificant Kingdoms and Sultans. Our future and claimed lands.
As you see, Our empire will include Jerusalem, but. That is considered a free zone for all religions of that sort. We will claim the holy city from the rebel and protect Jerusalem.
Cultured Drizzt fan
07-09-2009, 03:24
John laughs once again, obviously finding this whole spectacle hilarious
I never in a waking day of my life believed I would agree with a Moslem on so much!
The Lemongate
07-09-2009, 03:27
The Archbishop of Reims glares at the Moorish diplomat:
Do not involve yourself in matters of the Church Moslem. Your opinions on the matter are not welcome.
The Papacy is under the protection of the King of the Franks and any who thread on his lands or incur his wrath also incur the wrath of the King. Any who dare support such actions will be considered a heathen and a blasphemer and will meet the fate God has ordained for such crimes.
I have no comment at this time on the distant lands of the Fatimids.
The Archbishop of Reims' eyes flare up when the Duke of Ancona reveals his map. His voice crashes down on the Council with terrible imprecation and menace:
Retract your blashphemous claims from the lands of the Holy See at once or you shall soon find yourself at odds with France and many members of this Council! The Holy Father is not some sort of unaligned, petty prince whose frivolous claims can be pushed aside! Should your armies dare to even set foot within his dominion, be assured that France and all those who wish to call her friend will drive down upon you with such a terrible wrath that nothing of your demesne will remain standing and your vile heresy will be wiped from the pages of the histories! It is already bold enough for you to menace your christian neighbors in Genoa, do not compound your impious greed with sins.
Turning towards the Fatimid envoy and cooling the fire of his words, the Archbishop continues:
Your demands to restrain the movement of agents in your lands is understandable, but since the Holy City of Jerusalem falls within your sphere of influence, surely, you would allow the faithful and the duly appointed representatives of the Christian Kings of Europe to have access to such an important site? It would be viewed most auspiciously if you would grant us such a right.
OOC:
I don't see what the big deal about the pope is, here. There's no more crusades, so there's not much point besides role-playing a casus belli for an excommunication. Nevertheless, if the rest of Europe highly disagrees with me, I don't really need Rome anyway. I expect that, in this case, nobody else will be making their own claims on the Papacy, then.
The Duke of Ancona, once he has returned from his unexpected and urgent business, takes a look at the scroll where the discussion has been recorded, and stands to make a deep apology.
"The Republic of Venice would wish to make an apology towards the Papal State of Rome. There appears to have been a... mistake in the intelligence that our nation has gathered as of late. The Doge and myself had been led to believe that the Pope no longer held sway over the hearts of the kings and sovereigns of Europe in this day and age. We know for sure that, should he wish to call a crusade to Jerusalem now, not a single one of you would take up arms and the cross for Christendom.
Clearly, this is not so, and I would beg the forgiveness of my peers and His Holiness himself for such a sacrilegious statement. Venice rejects all of its unjust claims on the Holy City; however, as this seems to be the only opposition, all other claims will stand. The Doge will soon be sending a private messenger to the Holy Roman Emperor to speak of the ownership of Emilia-Romagna and the city of Bologna; as he has not deigned to send his representative here yet, we have no way of knowing his own opinion on the matter."
With that, the Duke lets out a deep sigh and takes a seat.
Cultured Drizzt fan
07-10-2009, 03:16
OOC:
I don't see what the big deal about the pope is, here. There's no more crusades, so there's not much point besides role-playing a casus belli for an excommunication. Nevertheless, if the rest of Europe highly disagrees with me, I don't really need Rome anyway. I expect that, in this case, nobody else will be making their own claims on the Papacy, then.
The Duke of Ancona, once he has returned from his unexpected and urgent business, takes a look at the scroll where the discussion has been recorded, and stands to make a deep apology.
"The Republic of Venice would wish to make an apology towards the Papal State of Rome. There appears to have been a... mistake in the intelligence that our nation has gathered as of late. The Doge and myself had been led to believe that the Pope no longer held sway over the hearts of the kings and sovereigns of Europe in this day and age. We know for sure that, should he wish to call a crusade to Jerusalem now, not a single one of you would take up arms and the cross for Christendom.
Clearly, this is not so, and I would beg the forgiveness of my peers and His Holiness himself for such a sacrilegious statement. Venice rejects all of its unjust claims on the Holy City; however, as this seems to be the only opposition, all other claims will stand. The Doge will soon be sending a private messenger to the Holy Roman Emperor to speak of the ownership of Emilia-Romagna and the city of Bologna; as he has not deigned to send his representative here yet, we have no way of knowing his own opinion on the matter."
With that, the Duke lets out a deep sigh and takes a seat.
OOC: the problem is you are still talking to a bunch of catholics nations about taking over Rome..... would not go over good then, so we responded just like they would have to these claims.
phonicsmonkey
07-10-2009, 03:44
OOC: exactly, we were RP'ing. Also, the Pope will still be able to excommunicate us, with all the attendent misery that brings, so he does play some role in the game.
Regarding Crusades, as I understand it we won't be allowed to join in-game crusades called by the Pope, but there's nothing stopping us from RP'ing a crusade if we all wanted to join forces and kick some heathen ass, so long as we don't use the in-game mechanic to get free units etc.
The Lemongate
07-10-2009, 04:48
OOC: and you can be 100% sure that I, for one, will be a crusading zealot - even moreso against excommunicated heathens :smash::smash::smash: we simply do not use the in-game mechanism for crusades and jihads because they are unbalancing
this also theoretically means that the 4th crusade is totally role-playable and that the devastation of Hungarian lands by reckless crusaders (as well as their total annihilation by the Hungarian King, is possible as well
being a friend of the pope so as not to be excommed is, in this perspective, probably even more important then in the regular games as "crusades" will be mostly left to the whims of individual players, or worse, coalition of players
Oh, and please everyone, follow Chaotix's very good example and put OOC stuff in spoilers. It makes the rest of the thread look so neater that way :beam:
Ignoramus
07-10-2009, 08:32
The Aragonese emissary, Garcia de Hierro, places a large document on the middle of the council's table.
Here is the Treaty of Paris, but lately signed between the Kingdom of France and the Crown of Aragon. I advise all emissaries to take note.
"The Treaty of Paris - 1080
The Kingdom of France pledges full support to the Crown of Aragon should war break out between the Christian kingdoms of Spain and the Moors.
The Crown of Aragon and the Kingdom of France will permit one emissary to reside at each other's royal court permanently in order for speedy conducting of diplomatic affairs.
The Crown of Aragon permits the presence of French clergy in her lands, and encourages missionary efforts on the behalf of the Kingdom of France.
The Crown of Aragon recognises French suzerainty over the currently rebellious lands of Gascony and Provence.
The Kingdom of France recongises Aragonese suzerainty over the Kingdom of Navarra and the Emirate of Valencia, which includes the Balearic Isles."
The Fatamid would would shake his head
I just smell the scent of greed. A small kingdom obtaining a full military might of france, and use it as a children's playtoy. Hopefully he means a Defensive alliance, or we will most likely see a war declaration by aragon onto the moors very shortly, and only moors and frenchmen dying, while the aragons sit back, or help the frenchmen with the whole aragon army, which is really only 300 men at most that can throw a javalin, then run for their lives.
You have only just tried to break ties between us two religions with a proposal like that, you include the Moors so much as a violent nation, but they have not even threatened you yet. You have the nerve to try to push a nation that is well over 4 times the number of land area, and population with out even giving them something so that they could be happy with the term? You sir, Fail at proposing proposals, Here...
The Fatamid would grow a smirk on his face.
I have a new worthwhile treaty that france would be interested as well. Aragon officials commit suicide, which would cause disbandment of this so called kingdom you call it, and gives all of their lands to France. As they seem to know what to do with it better, and to get you out of this court to prevent any more of your messy proposals which just lead to anger. Yes... Oh wait... That doesn't include your say... now does it?
The Fatamid would sit down with disgust.
The Fatamid would would shake his head
I just smell the scent of greed. A small kingdom obtaining a full military might of france, and use it as a children's playtoy. Hopefully he means a Defensive alliance, or we will most likely see a war declaration by aragon onto the moors very shortly, and only moors and frenchmen dying, while the aragons sit back, or help the frenchmen with the whole aragon army, which is really only 300 men at most that can throw a javalin, then run for their lives.
You have only just tried to break ties between us two religions with a proposal like that, you include the Moors so much as a violent nation, but they have not even threatened you yet. You have the nerve to try to push a nation that is well over 4 times the number of land area, and population with out even giving them something so that they could be happy with the term? You sir, Fail at proposing proposals, Here...
The Fatamid would grow a smirk on his face.
I have a new worthwhile treaty that france would be interested as well. Aragon officials commit suicide, which would cause disbandment of this so called kingdom you call it, and gives all of their lands to France. As they seem to know what to do with it better, and to get you out of this court to prevent any more of your messy proposals which just lead to anger. Yes... Oh wait... That doesn't include your say... now does it?
The Fatamid would sit down with disgust.
The Duke of Ancona smirks at the Saracen emissary.
"Sir, have you not done the same thing, in agreeing to an alliance with the Turks?
Surely the only reason for this, besides defense, of course, is so that you might snatch away a piece of Greece once the inevitable war between the two begins? The Venetians know very well the ways of men. Luckily, for the most part our state has left greed for land in exchange for a greed for profit. Outside Italy, we have very little interest in land, besides perhaps another trading and resupplying post like Iraklion."
The Duke, blunt as a Venetian warhammer, is satisfied with his comment, and awaits the hypocrite's answer.
The fatamid sighed
That was not my point of the arguement. My point is that the treaty is against just a single target, who has not done any thing wrong, For example, Fatamid and Seljuk empire against Venice, if you take Milan, or trade HRE lands, and not giving you, venice, a chance to speak your side.
That is my arguement. I have nothing against defensive alliances. His treaty is what I have a problem with. It's a provoke to war. Which we should not do.
The Fatamid just rubs his head on how blunt minded the duke really is.
Ramses II CP
07-10-2009, 21:06
Gentlemen, please, do not argue on our account. We are fully content with the alliance between Aragorn and France. It has always been the policy of the Moorish Sultans that men of any faith or nationality may live in peace under our rule.
:egypt:
The Duke of Ancona stands to speak, looks around, and notices that just about every other diplomat has dozed off. Well, as long as that scribe is awake, no one can claim he has not said the words he is about to utter.
"Venice wishes to use the castle of Tortosa, currently held by the Knights Templar, as a trading outpost in the eastern Mediterranean, so we might better receive silk from Egypt. Before we mobilize any forces, however, we would wish to know if other nations have any previous claims on the castle. Thank you."
The fatamid diplomat finally has a smile on, and stands up.
Thank you for asking if this land, so close to my borders, was ok. For that, We have no problems, As long as you are there for peaceful trading. There are no problems, on part of the Fatamid Caliphate. As all we can see, You are going to make alot of westerners happy by all of the silk you will be shipping out, and we'll be excited to see western equipment!
The Fatamid would sit down.
Cultured Drizzt fan
07-12-2009, 03:09
Johns Face grows grim
so what you are asking if it is OK to attack the knights Templar? A group who has fought valiantly for many years to keep the holy land free for our pilgrims access?
Once again Venice has overstepped its bounds. If this flagrant view of attacking any bastion of Catholicism continues then England will have a very big problem with Venice. And I am sure the pope will share my view.
phonicsmonkey
07-12-2009, 03:21
The big Magyar Jozsef stands and shrugs.
We Magyar care not whether this castle at Tortosa is held by one group of moneylenders or another.
It is true that our allies the Venetians overstepped the mark by their declared intentions towards the Pope, but they have since clarified their position to the satisfaction of us all, have they not?
Surely England has more pressing concerns than to worry about a castle so far from their own lands.
Let the Doge worry about his relations with the Pope, it is not for your or I to decide on his behalf.
Johns Face grows grim
so what you are asking if it is OK to attack the knights Templar? A group who has fought valiantly for many years to keep the holy land free for our pilgrims access?
Once again Venice has overstepped its bounds. If this flagrant view of attacking any bastion of Catholicism continues then England will have a very big problem with Venice. And I am sure the pope will share my view.
Let the English King be assured that Venice has no intentions against Christianity. Surely it is not a problem to be taking a castle which would otherwise soon be overrun by Saracens anyway? Rather, it is a good idea, as by being under control of a larger state, the castle will be better defended. The Knights Templar are no longer under any sort of strong leadership. Sooner or later, if left alone, they would be easily conquered. By placing the castle Tortosa under Venetian rule, it remains a bastion of Christianity, and the place will prosper as well. We are doing the region a favor by taking it under our wing, and we have the full assurance of the Fatimids that they will not interfere in that small place in the Levant.
Cultured Drizzt fan
07-12-2009, 04:35
John thinks for a minute you have a good enough point..... Fine I have no more to say on the matter.
The Fatamid Diplomat would nod.
The merchant duke is right. With constant raids on islam trade. The Fatamid Empire, or even the Eastern Roman Empire would just invade the small castle and be done with it, and with that, the only Catholic region in the Levant area. The Venice though, replacing these unpredictible small group of knights. With trade, this only helps the bond grow between our two religions, with also profiting both.
Last but not least, it should bring many silks to Rome. Who knows, maybe spices will grow from that! This is one step closer of bonding our people together, and it is thanks to the Merchants of Venice!
The Fatamid would be smiling.
After many days of no real news. A messenger finally comes in, and it is for the Fatamids. The Fatamid Diplomat would grab it and announce it to all of the other diplomats.
It is now confirmed that the Fatamid Caliphate has captured the Holy city of Jerusalem from the Sultan of Jerusalem and his army, As the sultan now opens Jerusalem for pilgrimage to all of Europe that is not hostile toward islam. Though We are building a Memorial Stone for the many brave soldiers and the Crown prince, who died on that day.
Other than that, We have captured other areas, but none is worth reporting. That is all we have to report, Our most noble host.
The fatamid would sit back down.
The Lemongate
08-17-2009, 00:34
A Frankish courrier enters the Palais' throne room through the large arched-doors. Pushing away through the crowd with his armed escort, he reaches the base of the throne. After kissing the Archbishop's ring and whispering something to his ear, he sounds a trumpet and reads aloud a decree bearing the capetian royal seal:
Oyé! Oyé! It has come to the attention du Grand Roi Philippe, Majesté Très Chrétienne et Preux Chevalier, that the Republic of Venice has declared war upon the Imperial Principalities of Italy. Following the recent marriages and alliance between the Imperial Roman family and the Frankish Crown, the Kingdom of the Franks now finds itself obliged to answer the call to arms and lend its support to the Imperial cause.
The King wishes to reassure Venice that it bears no ill will to the Republic and will only endeavour to maintain the status quo fighting only as honor and duty command.
Futhermore, the King of the Franks invites every nation that considers itself a friend of the Franks and the Empire to lend its aid to the Italian princes that were wrongfully slighted by Venice's actions.
May God bless our cause!
The courrier rolls back the royal decree, bows once to the empty throne, kisses the Archbishop's ring a second time and promptly leaves the room. Étienne de Reims, having listened with smug satisfaction to his King's decree, cannot help but crack a smile at Venice's apparent misfortune.
The Duke of Ancona would grimace at the sight of the French King's declaration.
"Very well. If you believe it is us that have been wronged, then go on believing those lies. I will have you know that if you are going to war against Venice, then you are going to war with the protectors of the Pope himself; for the Most Serene Republic has signed an agreement of alliance with the Papal State.
Furthermore, although we may seen as the aggressors here, we have only struck because the German Emperor has sought to repeatedly ignore our warnings- he has held Florence, a city which we have claimed rightfully in this Council, just as you have claimed lands in Gaul as your own, under siege for the past three years or so. Although we warned we would have no choice to war if they breached our claims and took the city, they did so anyway; naturally, by the code of honor we were bound to back up our challenge with force.
If the French King feels he can insert himself into a dispute between two nations, then I personally will invite any nation who wishes to take Venice's rightful side in the conflict. That is all."
The Duke seats himself, angered.
Cultured Drizzt fan
08-17-2009, 00:50
John looks down at some notes in his lap.
I had almost forgotten the declaration of an alliance between the Kingdom of England, and the Holy Roman empire. (if that still holds Asinus, we never official put it into a treaty. A diplomat is heading towards you with the offer of Trade rights and alliances.) We will aid our Allies as much as possible, However, we have neither the forces or the naval power to join the fight, as well as our certain restrictions. If The diplomats would like to discuss it in private I believe that England may be able to provide some funds to the war effort, on a friendly loan of course. :bow:
The Venetians foolishness knows no bounds. I proclaim full support for my friend the Germans.
Ramses II CP
08-17-2009, 01:15
The boyish diplomat of the Moors quirks his lips into a gentle smile before speaking,
Good sirs, surely this is a matter that can be resolved by treaties and not bloodshed? If the Venetians have already secured their objective then let the Romans ask their reparations for the act and have done, yes? Is it really necessary to leap ahead of the wronged party in declaring sides?
:egypt:
Cultured Drizzt fan
08-17-2009, 01:22
The boyish diplomat of the Moors quirks his lips into a gentle smile before speaking,
Good sirs, surely this is a matter that can be resolved by treaties and not bloodshed? If the Venetians have already secured their objective then let the Romans ask their reparations for the act and have done, yes? Is it really necessary to leap ahead of the wronged party in declaring sides?
:egypt:
John shakes his head
Venice has attacked a Cristian Prince without Provocation, no matter what he says he had no good reason to attack. The only way he can end this is to withdraw from Heinrich's land, and pay the Germans for the trouble he caused. Venice is not going to accept anything less than a German withdrawal I assume, and so a war will go on.
Of course, I have very little stake in the war other than as a friend of the Germans, and if the two find a way to reach peace I will applaud them.
The Lemongate
08-17-2009, 01:34
Étienne de Reims nods in approval to Sir Kenneth.
As will His Majesty King Philippe.
phonicsmonkey
08-17-2009, 02:26
The big Magyar staggers to his feet and peers through bleary eyes at the assembled nobles, before beaming at all and and sundry and declaring,
It is I, Jozsef!
This squabble between our allies the money men and the German Romans is giving we Magyar a headache...
While we can see that the Italians are indeed the aggressor and have invaded German lands, we cannot but recognise that they were severely provoked by the Germans, who we suspect had every intention of provoking a Venetian attack, having ignored repeated attempts at negotiation by the Venetians over the disputed territories of Italy, including an attempt at mediation by our own noble King Lazslo, who finds his patience worn thin by the belligerence of both sides.
For this reason, if we are forced to pick sides we will, at this stage, side with the Kaiser and call on the Venetians to withdraw their troops and sue for peace.
However, we will not commit our own armies or money to this struggle between friends, and would also call on the Kaiser to make a deal with the money men over Florence that will satisfy both parties and lead to a lasting peace.
And we would call on all nations here, including our illustrious host, to stay out of this dispute and not inflame the situation further by involving themselves in wars in lands not their own..
OOC:Because I'll be forced to in-game I will pick the side of the HRE, having warned both sides I would not back the aggressor. However I am staying neutral.
Edit: I forgot Florence was already HRE at the beginning of the game, confused it with Genoa, so replaced Florence with 'Italian territories' above.
Cultured Drizzt fan
08-17-2009, 02:34
The big Magyar staggers to his feet and peers through bleary eyes at the assembled nobles, before beaming at all and and sundry and declaring,
It is I, Joszef!
This squabble between our allies the money men and the German Romans is giving we Magyar a headache...
While we can see that the Italians are indeed the aggressor and have invaded German lands, we cannot but recognise that they were severely provoked by the Germans, who we suspect had every intention of provoking a Venetian attack, having ignored repeated attempts at negotiation by the Venetians over the disputed territory of Florence, including an attempt at mediation by our own noble King Lazslo, who finds his patience worn thin by the belligerence of both sides.
For this reason, if we are forced to pick sides we will, at this stage, side with the Kaiser and call on the Venetians to withdraw their troops and sue for peace.
However, we will not commit our own armies or money to this struggle between friends, and would also call on the Kaiser to make a deal with the money men over Florence that will satisfy both parties and lead to a lasting peace.
And we would call on all nations here, including our illustrious host, to stay out of this dispute and not inflame the situation further by involving themselves in wars in lands not their own..
OOC:Because I'll be forced to in-game I will pick the side of the HRE, having warned both sides I would not back the aggressor. However I am staying neutral.
John sighs somewhat
Well, was I right or was I right? I wish luck to Hungary in sorting through the diplomatic mess they are in. I hope they reach a peace, but if they do not You can be sure that English money will be backing the Germans armies.
The Germans are not the aggressors in this, and they have as much right to there land as anyone else. If they chose not to give up Florence such is there right, and the Venetians do not get to simply attack him for it. He has every reason to defend his land, and is clearly in the Moral right.
phonicsmonkey
08-17-2009, 02:50
John sighs somewhat
Well, was I right or was I right? I wish luck to Hungary in sorting through the diplomatic mess they are in. I hope they reach a peace, but if they do not You can be sure that English money will be backing the Germans armies.
The Germans are not the aggressors in this, and they have as much right to there land as anyone else. If they chose not to give up Florence such is there right, and the Venetians do not get to simply attack him for it. He has every reason to defend his land, and is clearly in the Moral right.
Joszef wipes his moustache free of beer suds and addresses the Englishman with a placatory expression.
We completely understand the position of England, who has not been party to the numerous negotiation attempts by two successive Venetian administrations over the territories of Italy.
Not all of these involved the HRE giving up Florence, many were reasonable and were rejected outright by the Kaiser, who we believe sought war with the Venetians from the outset.
We should be clear that we utterly condemn the Venetian attack on Florence, and are morally siding with the HRE.
We had warned both sides that we would not support the aggressor in any war between them.
However, we will not commit troops to a war which could easily have been avoided, had the Kaiser been in the mood to make a deal with the Venetians.
The Fatamids would just like to comment.... That all nations will be aloud to pilgrimage at this current time.
OOC:
I would like to say that The Venice, since I have made sure they were protected. The current status is that Florence is besieged, and bolognia is forted in, There is no hope to save them, they are lost for sure if Venice does keep the war up. Though, I would like to say, If i'm hearing this correctly, that Venice is attacking HRE due to ignored land claims, and took florence, Venice is the "Aggressor" for a provoked war that HRE did... soo.. Land claims are essentually... Worthless?
Hearing the words of several other diplomats, the Duke of Ancona stands once again to speak.
"I do believe that we should take the advice so willingly offered by the Moorish diplomat. Despite being the aggressor in the conflict, Venice does not want war, and is only protecting its territorial claims- and if we cannot do that, how can we call ourselves a nation? The Most Serene Republic would welcome a peaceful solution to this conflict, if the other side is willing. We ask only the relinquishment of Florence, and then we can resume trading- war brings prosperity to nobody. Our demands are not unreasonable; after all, Florence is completely separate from the German Emperor's heartland, and it cannot be of much value to him anyway."
The Duke seats himself, hoping clearer heads will prevail.
phonicsmonkey
08-17-2009, 03:59
Hearing the words of several other diplomats, the Duke of Ancona stands once again to speak.
"I do believe that we should take the advice so willingly offered by the Moorish diplomat. Despite being the aggressor in the conflict, Venice does not want war, and is only protecting its territorial claims- and if we cannot do that, how can we call ourselves a nation? The Most Serene Republic would welcome a peaceful solution to this conflict, if the other side is willing. We ask only the relinquishment of Florence, and then we can resume trading- war brings prosperity to nobody. Our demands are not unreasonable; after all, Florence is completely separate from the German Emperor's heartland, and it cannot be of much value to him anyway."
The Duke seats himself, hoping clearer heads will prevail.
Joszef looks frustrated.
Duke of Ancona, you give little hope those who would like to see peace - what are you offering the Kaiser in exchange for Florence?
And if Florence cannot be obtained, what would you take in its stead, in order to have peace in Italy?
For you cannot expect Kaiser Heinrich to simply hand over his territory! Or are you indeed the unprincipled aggressor that some here would paint you to be?
A small man enters the room quietly and swiftly walks toward the Roman diplomat, handing him a roll of cloth. The diplomat's servants take the cloth roll from the messenger's hand, glaring hard at him, making him cower and exit the room. Then Andreas takes out of the roll a scroll, opens it, read it, and whispers a few words in the ear of the diplomat. As the big man rises from his seat, a deep and rough cough escapes his throat, earning him the room's attention.
Gentlemen of this court, I just recieved a message from Konstantinopolis. I shall recite it so all may hear the wisdom of Basileos Alexius Conmenus:
"Who are they, and who are we? They call themselves The Holy Roman Empire, and we are The Roman Empire. People call them Germans, some call us Byzantium. But who are we really. We might not live together, we might not share the same beliefs, nor accent. BUT, let us not forget that in a not so distant past, we were brothers, and even now, as hundreds of miles separates us, there is a deep bond that could never be severed. And as such, it is clear that we cannot let this aggression go without retaliation. We will defend our brothers until their ennemies have either forfeit of have been defeated. Let us mark this day be the unification of different nations against a common foe, may this endeavor profits all of us greatly."
As the roman diplomat stares at the court members, his servant behind him bears a wide smile of admiration. It is clear to all that Gabrelus Angelus has "slightly" embellished the message from his emperor and he seems very proud of himself. For a moment he makes a move to sink back into his chair but then he straighten himself for a second and turn around to face the Fatimid.
And yes, I almost forgot... I was also ordered to tell you that the Roman Empire will withdraw their claims for Antioch ad Orontem for now. We will leave it into the care of our "friendly" Fatimid neighbors. We are sure you will take good care of it for us, and when the time is ripe, my Basileos hopes a pacific solution will be concievable.
The Fatamid would stand up.
It is my intention to say that We, the Fatamid Caliphate, Do not the lack of respect in your sarcasim and our position.
We understand your withdrawl and will take them with haste, since our forces are right at Antioch's door step. Though, We are not holding this city or fighting your battle so that you can send forces to Iraklion and try to take a piece of the Venician Empire. We are keeping Antioch, unless your lord can pay Very Well] for the settlement.
... A side note... You Romans call the Germans your brothers, yet, You call people that come from Rome your Foes...?... I do not understand your words at all... It might of been better if you just said. "I will join the war against Venice since I wish to claim his lands."... Agreed?
"And so apparently this small conflict, which should concern naught but Venice and the Holy Roman Empire, has grown into a sort of race between every nation between here and Cathay to snatch a piece of the Venetian Republic before it is gobbled up? One can see clearly the intentions of every single one of you, like starving dogs waiting for a shred of meat to hit the ground before you rush and fight over it.
To Jozsef, the Hungarian- the land the Kaiser holds is not his to give away! I wish for a peaceful solution to this conflict, but Venice cannot be allowed to back down in the face of a larger army. We cannot be viewed as cowards, else others will treat us the same way- taking our lands and then making us pay to get them back. The fact remains that we have claimed the lands, and the German Empire, no matter how large it is, has decided to push aside our claims and take it for itself- believing we would do nothing about it.
And perhaps I should iterate this again: anyone who dares to strike at His Holiness' own protectors may be prepared to receive an excommunication in return. Perhaps even you, French King, servant of God that you are, may fall into disfavor with the Pope, if you try to attack my lands. And if I were the Byzantine Emperor, I might fear a crusade."
The Duke of Ancona, frustrated, seats himself.
Asinus Asini
08-17-2009, 06:55
A fat man comes in puffing and sweating with a thin but heavily laden servant at his side. Arriving in the Hall, he almost slips stopped only by the servant who throws himself behind him. The man gets back up, takes his breath and then, with an expression of either anger or heavy physical exertion, he abruptly hollers :
Great Sirs, noble Lords, I stand before you and speak to you now without proper presentation for I must. May God, my King and all this courts be witness today of the dishonor and treachery of the Dodge of Venice for he has broken his alliance and attacked the Holy Roman Empire. We had agreed to trade him Florence when we learned him claimed to it; for the siege was already under way. Why was Venice compelled to attack the Empire is beyond comprehension.
As for King Lazlo claim that we wanted war, it is completely absurd; we never did. In fact, before his attack we were agreeing on trading Florence back to him and leaving him all the rebels city in Italy - if it suited other nations of course; we also agreed on his demand for free passage through Bologna against free passage for our troops to Bologna which seemed fair.
We await the reasons behind Venice action and they should not think that we be as benevolent anymore after their treacherous agression.
The fatamid would stand up again.
If you were just giving Florence, Isn't it just as easy to give it to him and declare a cease fire?
As it was... Some one update the man that we have already discussed the reasons why the venician's have attacked the Germans...
Also... it might be wise to not declare war so soon.. As it is, It seems that many of our empires has still rebels withen it's lands that it must deal with.
Being with that put, All of the sides who said that they would attack venice or say, Would take years to even get to his lands, let alone attacking him,
You would only be delaying your empire's growth of Both sides. Kings and lords of the west should find a peaceful solution, to such a Minor conflict that could have been
easily avoided by simply understanding one point's side.
The Duke of Ancona looks relieved at some words and perplexed at others.
"Perhaps this is all just a great misunderstanding between us. Now that you have arrived, noble of the Holy Roman Empire, I will explain my side of the story; what I understood to be happening.
Firstly, it would have saved you much trouble to have left Florence and allowed us to take it, if you only planned on giving it to us. When you claimed you would be "trading" Florence to us, we assumed, as is common with a trade of lands, that the city would be bought at our expense- much like we were discussing "trading" Bologna, until relations soured. If you were planning on simply giving us the city, which I'm afraid you didn't make clear to us, then I fear we Venetians are nearly completely at fault. If this is the case, than we deeply apologize, for responding to your apparent generosity with a declaration of war.
However, we were not planning on paying for Florence, and when you mentioned "trade", we assumed payments- and buying a city is usually quite expensive. This is entirely what provoked our declaration of war. We assumed this declaration of "Alliance" as well to be hinging on the fact that you would leave the siege of Florence and sell us Bologna- for this alliance was never formally signed, I believe.
OOC- I could be wrong on that last point. I haven't played for two turns.
Needless to say, we do not want this war, and it seems you do not want this war, either. Here is what I propose:
-We sign a peace agreement and agree to trade once more.
-We will remove any and all troops from your lands.
-You will give us the city of Florence, and in return, we will pay 6000 florins (negotiable) for any damages we may have caused you.
-I will remove the Alpine forts blocking the passage of your forces.
-God willing, we may put this embarrassing debacle behind us, and reforge our alliance, although we understand if you will no longer associate with us.
Hopefully, we will be able to end this peacefully after all."
The Duke sits, crossing his fingers.
The Lemongate
08-17-2009, 12:35
The Archbishop sits calmly through the heated debate, getting up only to greet the Imperial diplomat.
We welcome the representative of the Holy Roman Empire in the Court of the Franks and hope that his presence here may help resolve this unfortunate act of aggression by Venice.
As for you, Venetian, I would warn you to rethink your words. It is not wise to insult or threaten a King in his own Court. The Franks only answer their ally's call for help and if war is to be the course of our relations, seeks only to restore the status quo, an option that should be perfectly acceptable to all parties, and something of which you were made aware of by a letter in my own hand even before you uttered your disgraceful comments.
The Archbishop returns to his seat, his voice taking on a more scholarly tone.
Claiming a land with words or writings, especially the sort of claim Venice has made, over lands that already have a master, does not grant a nation any specific rights to that land. It is only a statement of intentions. Might I remind the Duke of Ancona that he has already claimed lands belonging to the Genoese Republic, the late Knight Templars, the Holy Roman Empire and the Papacy itself? By any measure, you have been rather belligerent and unreasonable thus far.
And finally, do you think anyone in this Court actually believes your preposterous claim of being a friend of the Holy Father? After menacing him with violence you have sought out to shield yourself under his influence to escape responsibility for your actions in attacking one of your Catholic brothers. Believe me, your trickery does not go unnoticed and does little for your case. Do follow negociations with the Empire, it is your best option to resolve this conflict in your advantage. You cannot hope to win a war.
phonicsmonkey
08-17-2009, 13:26
The burly Magyar rises once more, looking in askance at the French Archbishop.
Your holiness, was not Florence an independent city-state before this dispute began? It had no master who is represented here, did it?
And I beg of you most noble host, please allow the Kaiser's man to reply to the Venetian offer before weighing into this debate - it is all too easy to inflame a delicate situation such as this with unnecessary words..
He raises his tankard to the Archbishop and grins broadly.
The Duke of Ancona would rise to speak.
"If France truly does not wish to snatch away a piece of our lands, then I will retract my statements against your king. Indeed, the statement was mostly directed towards the rather blunt Byzantine diplomat, who is most certainly only trying to make an ally out of the Holy Roman Emperor so that he may capture Venetian holdings in the Balkans.
I am aware, of course, that Venice did not own Florence or the province of Tuscany before it was captured by the Holy Roman Emperor. However, imagine for a moment, as an example, if some of the lands your own King has claimed for conquest, were taken from under his nose. Say the Aragonese Crown had seen fit to conquer the rebellious cities of Toulouse and Marseille, before you could mobilize an army towards them yourself. Or perhaps that the English King and Duke of Normandy had seen fit to extend his control on the mainland to that of Rennes and Brittany. Would you not be quite indignant, having in this very council claimed those lands as the right of the French crown? But of course, for this reason you have made treaties with both Aragon and England- Alliances, in fact, provided they will stay out of the lands that you have claimed, and that you will in return respect their claims to lands.
This is precisely the sort of agreement that the Republic had with the Holy Roman Empire- that the Germans would respect our claim to Northern Italy outside of Bologna, we would respect their claims to Switzerland and anything else north of the Alps, we would allow free movement of troops between our lands, and have an alliance. When the Emperor captured Florence and then proposed to trade it back to us, which we assumed meant a large sum of money to paid, we felt that they were in direct breach of the agreement we had, and in order to prove that we planned to back up our claims to the lands, we besieged the city of Florence. The city is still under siege, though, and we have not caused any other damage to the Empire's armies.
We now know, of course, that both parties probably had a different interpretation of this treaty. For this reason we await the Emperor's emissary to respond to our previous statements.
As for other claims: The Venetian Doge has long since retracted his heretical claim to the Papal State, and being nearby, has personally made amends with His Holiness. In order to be forgiven for the insult, he has agreed to protect the Papal State with his own nation. As far as the Knights Templar castle at Tortosa, the Venetian state is as of now in no shape to attempt a takeover of it, anyway- we would like to formally retract that claim.
I agree wholeheartedly that we can find a peaceful solution, and indeed the reason I was angered before was that we would be hard-pressed to win a war against the Empire alone. With the Kingdom of the Franks and the Eastern Romans joining the battle against us, we would most surely have been torn to shreds. I await the return of the Holy Roman Emperor's diplomat, that we may begin to broker a peace deal."
The Duke of Ancona, nearly out of breath from speaking for so long, sits patiently.
Asinus Asini
08-18-2009, 03:42
The Imperial Diplomat
Never did I ever talk about giving Florence but to trade. As for your offer to trade the city while besieging and blocking any possible reinforcement to the city of Bologna is far from reassuring the Kaiser on your intentions for peace.
In fact, I will send your offer to trade Florence to the Kaiser. But tell me in which way he should believe your good will to the german nation in light of the forts that still block any reinforcement to the city of Bologna, in light of your treacherous siege of Florence, and more so in light of your most heathen claims upon the Christian Kingdoms of Rome and of Milan. If you want peace you will have to offer more than claims to cities that do not belong to you.
phonicsmonkey
08-18-2009, 03:46
OOC:
-I will remove the Alpine forts blocking the passage of your forces.
Didn't we make forts permanent in this game?
The Lemongate
08-18-2009, 03:54
OOC:
yeah... i kinda consider that a mistake
OOC:
Interestingly, i have tested this out myself, And it appears that you can infact change this, but it would have to require every one to update to (would be latest) Hotseat Patch 1.3
You have to change the fort properties... Since in reality, It has nothing to do with the person's campaign, as it's just simply changing the script that would destroy the fort.
Note that If even 1 person has the old patch on though, It will still keep the forts. In all honesty, We should simply vote, and the majority will win, (Forts permanent or can they be destroyed after leaving it un-attended for 1 turn. )
phonicsmonkey
08-18-2009, 04:09
OOC:
let's move this discussion to the main game thread where we won't have to use spoilers
The Fatamid would stand up. and announce to the table.
The Fatamid Caliphate would like to remind all warring party members that Iraklion is officially part of the Trade Alliance formed by the Fatamid Caliph and the Duke of Venice. If this settlement is attacked, We are entitled to defend these sites. This was formed when the negotiations of the castle of the Knights Templar were being made.
The only way you can obtain these sites with out going to war is by simply buying, or using them to use by diplomacy tools.
We are sure that none of the Catholic Powers would bother sending a force to capture this trade posts, This is a Strictly a Reminder. Also, if you do obtain these trade posts by diplomatic means, Please speak to my ruler so we can get trade going at once. We wish to stay neutral. but We must honor our agreements. So, Please keep this war in Europe.
We wish all powers for a quick... Diplomatic Resolve. We mean no dis-respect for the Catholic Nations. We Fatamids have no place to interfere with the european wars, but if the war manages to break into our influence We will have to fight.
We thank you all for understanding.
The Fatamid Diplomat would sit down.
The Fatamid would just sit down again, but then another messenger quickly rushes in, he sighs and stands up again.
To the lords of this table. The Fatamid Empire is Officially at War with the Kingdom of Armenia...
He would stop and tries to understand the news.
But... The War is now over. As the Caliph himself took Antioch and the city north of it. As the Caliph was very out numbered, he writes that His troops "Rode" over the enemy resistance and claimed all cities. He has also sent progress reports of how well he did in each battle.
Battle of Antioch
https://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7268/0001wvs.jpg
Battle of smaller northern castle.
https://img177.imageshack.us/img177/117/0002jzt.jpg/
As he claims, The Romans should be ashamed on how they lost control to such weaklings, who never knew a thing about Military tactics.
And onto Our southern front... The Fatamid Empire is going deeper south along the Nile, "Recruiting" soldiers to join his armies, while Mecca has just been won against the Rebels there.. This how ever, was one of the bloodier battles of this campaign...
https://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6452/0003yue.jpg
As it is, Please remember that Iraklion is in our Trade alliance, and it is required of us to declare war on ANY one who tries to obtain it other than diplomatic means.
The Caliph now says he is planning to go south... to capture Damascus, since he rode mostly on boat to targets... =x
Last but not least, Seeing our out standing victories, and our empire grow. The Caliph officially changes the Empire's city to Jerusalem, The Faction name is now named... "The Caliphate of Jerusalem"
As we stated before, All Neutral + Allied nations may come visit jerusalem, but please notify the Caliph or I before you do.
He would sit down... Whew... What a long message!
OOC:
All were on my first attempt too. =p I need to do something other than play this game. x.x;
Cultured Drizzt fan
08-19-2009, 00:35
Well then good luck to the Caliphate. I am sure that pilgrims will be treated with all due respect.
The Duke of Ancona stands to speak.
I would first like to congratulate my Saracen friend on his great achievements in the East. Hopefully this will lead to only more profitable trade between his empire and the Republic, provided it is not to be smashed in but a few years.
On that note, I would like to direct a response to the German diplomat's previous speech. First, I would like to note that we have already offered to pay reparations for the damages caused in this brief war. Second, I have only realized now that these forts may not be as temporary as they seem. For this, we apologize, but we believe we can remedy the situation by emptying the forts and allowing mutal military access- that way, they should be able to be simply marched past. Finally, as we have already stated, we have long retracted our heathen claims to Rome, and are paying the consequences as well. make no mistake, we have no intention of conquering it.
As for Milan, it is but land held by a rebel Duke, much like the Swiss castle of Bern that you plan to conquer, or the Bohemian city of Prague. Surely there is no problem with our capturing of the place, to bring a better life to its no-doubt miserable Godless citizens?
The Duke of Ancona, having made his point, sits.
phonicsmonkey
08-20-2009, 07:40
I will send your offer to trade Florence to the Kaiser.
Joszef the Magyar wakes from a post-prandial snooze and looks around for a moment as if trying to remember where he is. Spotting the tankard on the table in front of him his face lights up, and he reaches for it, only to discover it empty.
With a groan, he looks down to see his scrawled notes before him, reads for a moment, and with a sigh rises to address the Imperial Ambassador.
Kindly Ambassador of the German Romans, has there been any word from his majesty the Kaiser in response to the Venetian offer presented to the Court?
Is there still hope of peace in Italy, or is the Kaiser hell-bent on the destruction of the money men of Venice?
Ibn-Khaldun
08-20-2009, 16:22
A well dressed man enters. He looks around for a moment, then coughs, takes a message and reads it..
To the Noble Rulers of the Realms,
The King of Castille-Leon will soon send an emissary to this Council.
He also wish to sign trade treaties with great powers like France in north and Moors in south.
King hopes that peace and prosperity could be chosen over war and despair in Iberia.
Also, he wishes to announce that he currently don't have an opinion on the war in Italy.
Chancellor of the Kingdom of Castille-Leon
The chamber door slams open and a knight enters, he´s still dirty from traveling, but using a few court clothes as if someone had hastly tryed to improve his bearing. He´s followed by a young Lady and a couple of squires carrying documents*
*He gives a short salute and addresses the chamber*
"Des salutations au Roi Philippe et les représentants nobles, j'ai été envoyé ici pour représenter Roger, le Comte de la Sicile et le Robert, Duc d'Apulia et de la Calabre. Mon nom est Robert, le Compte de Loritello. Le compte Roger a envoyé ses salutations que je lirai…"
["Greetings to King Philippe and the noble representatives, I was sent here to represent Roger, Count of Sicily and Robert, the Duke of Apulia and Calabria. My name is Robert, the Count of Loritello. Count Roger sent his greetings that I shall read..."]
He stops his speech and starts to search thru a scroll bag presented by a squire.
The Lady moves beside him and whispers: "Papa, that´s the wrong bag"
The Count sighs, tired: "I am not cut for this job"
She whispers: "It will be all right, let me take the squires and organize the documents, why you had to storm in here directly? I told you it´s NOT the right way to do it"
He waves the question away and addresses the chamber again:
"My apppologies, Count Roger message will be read...later"
He sits down and waves the Lady away: "Go organize the papers you like so much"
The Lady glares at him and pokes his shoulder before he can ignore her: "Papa, you have to introduce me to the chamber as your assistant!"
The knight ponders a moment as if he was to say something back but shakes his head and gives up. He introduces, Lady Sigrid, as his diplomatic assistant. She courtseys and smiles with grace.
The knight sits down at the table and dismisses the Lady as if annoyed but hiding a small proud grin:
"Remind me again why you are my assistant?"
She grins and says while leaving the room "Uncle Roger said that this time he would sent an advisor you could not ignore, disrespect or scare to muteness, didn´t He?"
The knight sighs feeling traped and mumbles: "Yes, that´s Roger indeed...that bastard"
The Saracen would give a small chuckle at the new representive of Sicily.
It took Southern Italy long enough to send an emersary up.
Cultured Drizzt fan
08-21-2009, 00:15
Well I for one say welcome To the representative from Sicily, and also await the Arrival of the Representative of Castille-Leon with much interest.
phonicsmonkey
08-21-2009, 06:53
Joszef is three sheets to the wind, and lurches drunkenly to his left to speak to his priestly companion, who visibly winces at the prospect. The Magyar ambassador does not appear to notice that he is spilling his ale on the priest as he says, in an audible whisper that carries all around the chamber:
These Germans, not very talkative are they?
The Priest slowly turns a shade of crimson and sinks into the depths of his cowl in embarrassment. Joszef laughs uproariously and beckons to the serving wench with a massive right hand.
Asinus Asini
08-21-2009, 17:35
Venice since you talk about reparations for the war without stating any value, the Kaiser chose to put forward what he believes to be a modest reparation for all the trouble Venice did to the Roman Empire. A sum of 12 000 florins paid over a short period would seem reasonable and the departure of your forts in Italy so that we can move troops to and from our city of Bologna.
Also, we will not agree to foregoing Florence or Bologna in and any attack on them will void any agreement. Florence is the nearest city to Bologna and so it was a quite reasonable claim for the duke of Bologna.
OOC: How can we do this for the fort, if we have an alliance and he departs the forts I can't attack them, or can we simply sign a treaty of free-movement?
The Saracen Diplomat would just simply yawn...
And I thought Diplomacy in the east was quite horrible.. Things only get worst in the west. Bad Diplomacy, No wonder why you all see more profit in War. There is no reason why the Merchant country should sign a treaty like that... Giving the Kaiser 12,000 florins for /nothing/?
It is true that if you keep the war, You will most likely lose your homelands... but as it is, you are an empire with settlements far beyond there reach... You could simply destroy any thing of value, and move yourself toward your colonies... A Tactical retreat, leaving the aggressors with nothing but waste. As it is, My people are still protecting your colonies with a tight grip. If worst comes to worst and you have to evacuate.. then we will make sure your future home are protected.
Ofcourse, Since our allies are in such desperate situations... The Caliph might send our military advisors to Venice... If our tactics work against heavily armored armenian horse men and soldiers... It would most likely work against German peasents...
The Saracen would only be tapping his finger on the table, with his chin resting on the hand's palm.
The Lemongate
08-22-2009, 02:15
The Archbishop eyes angrily the Saracen diplomat.
You take much interest in what happens in Christian lands Saracen. It would be unfortunate for you to promote your perfidious influence over the hearts and souls of noble Catholic Princes. Venice might be in the wrong, but none in France wish to see it reduced to a burning wreck as you suggest and I doubt very much the Doge has any intention of burning his own city! The Emperor's demands might sound rather exorbitant, but we are sure that through negociation, a mutually amicable solution can be found, which does not include your petty meddling.
Be careful where you thread Moslem. Your easy successess in your own lands could very well amount to naught should you find yourself on the wrong side of a Chrisitian sword.
A knowing smile appears on the Archbishop's lips. A smile returned by more then a few foreign dignitaries.
The Saracen still has the same old bored face on.
The same old threats. We will take that into concearn once you have your own country under control. Let alone, be able to even spare armies that could reach the Roman Empires in time... As it is.
Nobody wants to see the fatal "Scorched Earth" policy be used... but then again... The Doge of his own Republic doesn't want to see all that he has worked for, go right for a greedy man's pocket...
The Lemongate
08-22-2009, 03:47
The Archbishop laughs lightly.
This time may be far sooner than you imagine Saracen. Your bold statements and warlike demeanor have not made you many friends here.
Asinus Asini
08-22-2009, 04:04
What the Merchant country gets is peace from the Holy Roman Empire. What, did the Dodge thought he could break a treaty without warning and attack and then withdraw from the war with no retribution? If he believes that the amount is too much, may he put forward what he would feel more just.
The Saracen would only shrug.
They may be bold... but they are true sadly. And war like? Please... We have not one time mentioned us going to war besides going if any one attacks Iraklion. You sir are now making false assumptions. If any thing has been hostile... Well, I'll let you look over your own notes to see about that. Now, Enough of your Empty Threats, We must find a resolution to this War. Something that you clearly lack at this time.
As for the German, Didn't you already break the first one, when Venice threw out the map claims...? I do not understand what are you trying to say.
The Saracen would only sigh.
Asinus Asini
08-23-2009, 06:46
The Kaiser never accepted his claims as they were absurd. Rome, and all of northen Italy? Claims that are not rooted in at least a prior occupation are as deep as a kid pointing randomly on a map. Beside, he did not consult any of his neighbor and furthermore attacking independent towns is in no way an act of war especially when there is a peace treaty on the table waiting to be signed.
The Saracen would be in deep thought.
The Kaiser does... have a valid point... Though as it is... 12,000 is very steep... would require a nation to not do any thing for a number of turns before giving that up, Though... I do think a useless war would be fought for over a "Price"... As it is, Venice may not accept. If it is Truely what you are looking for peace, and not selling Florence. Then, Yes, you should get some kind of retribution, since you are the one calling the cease fire, but It shouldn't be so much that It makes Venice think War is a much better option, and yet having Both sides waste all of this time.
As it is... Simply if you are seeking true peace. You should come up with some agreement, one that both sides can agree one.
As it is, You seek Bolognia and Florence as Trade / Port cities for the Holy Roman Empire. As this though, Disrupts venice's empire (in half). You could simply just keep minimal troops in Bolognia / Florence, and sign under protection from Venice. (Though you are still keeping the settlements). In return that Venice's ground should be considered his own, and no need for there to be any HRE military transport between Bolognia and the Main grounds of the Imperial Empire. As for you, might need to focus more of it on capturing on what ever you need on your more important fronts.
In terms... Bullet points would rather be simple...
-Venice gives the HRE a fair number for starting this... (2 turns of profit... 6k average?)
-Venice understands that Florence and Bolognia are cities of the Imperial Empire.
-Venice stops besieging Florence / Bolognia
-HRE stops besieging the fortifications of Venice.
-HRE pulls back most troops from florence / bolognia. In return that Venice can walk his own grounds.
-HRE and Venice sign an alliance that does Military Access. (So both sides can get around fortifications in Italy)
.... How is that for starters Representative of the Holy Roman Empire? As it is, We seek no war between you both, and must try to mend this as the best of our ability. We await for the HRE and Venice's thoughts about this starting proposal. So please feel free to add on, take off. What ever is in your heart's desire to do so...
The Saracen would sit down, almost feeling like a real diplomat for once.
Asinus Asini
08-23-2009, 08:25
That would be interesting; but we have little time, we need an answer now if Venice is ready to give reparations for a ceasefire effective now.
The large german ambassador looks intently at the Duke of Ancoma
Ibn-Khaldun
08-23-2009, 08:42
A man wearing Castilian colors enters..
I am Prince Rodrigo, Duke of Salamanca and the Heir of the Kingdom of Castille!
I will represent the Crown of Castille in this Council.
Now, I am happy to announce that the Kingdom of Castille and the Moorish Caliphate have signed an Allience treaty. This should ensure peace and prosperity in Iberia.
So, what is the situation in Italy? Are Germans and Italians still fighting like little kids who don't know how to share things?
Asinus Asini
08-23-2009, 16:40
Lord Rodriguo I would advise you to watch your tone. Venice has attacked Florence because the Empire refused to let go of it and now he has angered most of its neighbors who are attacking him from all sides.
Sadly this is true. Due to most countries are most interest in this land grab than solving the problem with words... As it is, It seems I (The Saracens) am the only one trying. It seems like most countries brought people who only comment on events... not solve them... Is that why I am the only diplomat here?
After much thought over the matter, the Duke of Ancona stands to speak.
"Although we are not pleased with this deal... our ally the Saracen has worked hard to reason it out, and it would be rude not to consider it deeply. On behalf of the Doge of Venice, I will accept this treaty with the Holy Roman Emperor.
Perhaps, in later years, we may purchase the city Florence. Until then, I fully expect the Holy Roman Emperor to uphold every clause that falls upon him... unlike the last one."
The Duke of Ancona sits.
The Lemongate
08-23-2009, 19:10
Étienne de Reims stands up, arms wide open and declares:
We have PEACE! With God's help, no blood was shed. Now that Venice has normalized its relations with its neighbor, the Franks would be more then pleased to sign trade rights with the Republic should the Doge wish it.
We also note the help of the Caliph's emissary in resolving this matter. For this you have the thanks of the King, Saracen. However, do not think your meddling goes unnoticed. We do not approve of Moslems dealing in matters that concern Europe only.
Asinus Asini
08-23-2009, 19:23
Well that is settled, no more blood shall be spilled between Venice and the Empire, hopefully for a long time. We await the diplomat arrival. I extend my thanks to the support from all allies and to Venice even though it took him time to see the reasonable way of peace.
Also it can not add any new clause to the treaty now that it is almost sealed-unlike last time, clauses which are :
-Venice gives the HRE a fair number for starting this war (6000 florins).
-Venice understands that Florence and Bolognia are cities of the Imperial Empire.
-Venice stops besieging Florence / Bolognia.
-HRE stops besieging the fortifications of Venice.
-HRE pulls back most troops from florence / bolognia. In return that Venice can walk his own grounds.
-HRE and Venice sign an alliance that does Military Access. (So both sides can get around fortifications in Italy).
phonicsmonkey
08-24-2009, 03:56
Joszef the Magyar calls for more ale and jumps to his feet in delight at the news from the Imperial ambassador.
Long live the Kaiser Heinrich and the Doge of Venice, who have seen the benefit of peaceful negotiation over bloody war!
King Laszlo will be overjoyed to hear that his two allies are friends and neighbours once more!
And he will no doubt be grateful for the enlightened intervention of the Fatimid ambassador, whose mediation succeeded where his own had failed.
A toast to the Treaty!
He raises his flagon and drains it in a single long draught, before vigorously wiping the beer suds from his rampant moustache.
The Saracen would smile at Joszef.
I am glad I can help... It is very surprising that I have had an impact on this court already that effected Europe... To a good future...!?
The Saracen would do the same as the as the Hungarian and down his .... cup of water, Trying to fit in with the rest of the out numbering european court.
Between two mouthful of tender meat, the roman diplomat whispers to his servant:
What a pity, it is not today that we will see our mother land. Bah, at least this will give us more time to deal with rebels within our borders.
And on a more cheerful note, the diplomat rises up, lifting a fork up in the air...
I am glad for our neighbors of Venice that this conflict could be solved without the loss of both our valuable soldiers. I bow before the wisdom of the court here today. If the Empire is now in peace, then there is no more reason for the roman soldiers to stay in Italy any longer, and thus a messenger shall be sent to Konstantinopoulis right away.
He turns around and nods at his servant, who leaves quickly and return at his side as if he was never gone.
With our worries gone, I also welcome the Prince Rodrigo of the Kingdom of Castille.
He then let himself fall into his chair and goes back to eating eagerly.
[EDIT: sorry for any confusion]
The Saracen would get a letter from the Caliph, In a different wrapping though. He would read the attachement, and have one of his own servents deliver it to the Romans, across the table...
phonicsmonkey
08-25-2009, 02:03
With Joszef snoozing under his hat, the Magyar Priest stands to address the Court.
Our illustrious King Laszlo would let it be known to the Kings of Christian Europe that his son and heir, Prince Kalman, has decided to take a wife.
We would like to invite offers from suitable Kings who would be interested in offering their daughter's hand in marriage to the young man, who has a bright future ahead of him.
The Prince is university educated, is proven in battle and stands to inherit the great fortune of the ruling Arpad dynasty of the Magyar, and as such represents a fine match for any of the ruling families of Europe to consider.
We await your offers with great anticipation.
The Duke of Ancona would stand to speak.
"Ah, if only the Doge had a daughter to send to your Prince, noble Magyar. As it is, however, he cannot complain- he was blessed with three strong sons! God willing, with the end of this war, the Republic will still be able to reforge our alliance with your noble Kingdom.
On another note, I have received word from the Doge himself that he has lifted the siege of Florence. He has also sent word of the peace agreement to the Emperor- although since he had, quite embarrassingly found his coffers nearly dry from the recruitment of troops, he has suggested the payment of 6000 florins in a tribute. Doubtless this can be negotiated further between our diplomats in Italy.
Additionally, all of the forts that the Doge has erected have been vacated, save for one that stands in the Alps. That fort will be vacated like the others as soon as the peace agreement has been officially signed. Until then, it remains for the protection of the Republic."
The Duke of Ancona sits.
Asinus Asini
08-25-2009, 23:43
Tell your Doge to not think he can manipulate the Kaiser so easily; the Kaiser was overgenerous in this peace agreement and now Venice does not even respect his side of the bargain. Since you already should have paid by now the sum in total, I do not see why the generous term should hold.
Moreover you have settled forts in the Empire territories in your extravagant attempt of agression, and these forts will now need permanent sentries in them whose upkeep will have to come from the German people.
The Kaiser has agreed to offer of peace for 3 payments of 3000 florins and he awaits your answer.
The Saracen would just sigh...
... The key was for you to sign military access so you could get around such locations... As you already knew before you agreed to this. Also... We privatly talked and said that it was impossible for Venice to pay you 6000 by this turn, and would require 1 or so turns of money making to get even 6,000 worth...
"-HRE pulls back most troops from florence / bolognia. In return that Venice can walk his own grounds.
-HRE and Venice sign an alliance that does Military Access. (So both sides can get around fortifications in Italy). "
You have seem to totally forgot about the 2 last rules, which state If you have Military access, you can still easily walk around venice occupied forts...
It is like every thing we have privately talked before this treaty has been washed away by a strong ocean tide...
The Duke of Ancona looks at the German ambassador, confused and annoyed.
"Sorry, but I thought we already agreed on the peace terms, correct? I have upheld my end of the bargain to the very best of my ability. Now that I have removed the military presence from the forts, you have decided to change the rules again? I apologize, good sir, but my Doge will not deal with an oathbreaker. You will either accept the terms we have outlined, and that you agreed to, or we will be at war again. It is as simple as that."
The Duke sits, awaiting a response.
phonicsmonkey
08-26-2009, 05:46
Jozsef still snoozes. The Magyar Priest looks dismayed at this turn of events.
Sirs, I beseech you not to throw away the chance of peace on a mere technicality!
What difference does it make to the Kaiser whether he receives the agreed sum of 6000 florins in one wagonload or two?
And surely a delay in payment is not cause to renegotiate the Treaty in full? The Kaiser is being most unreasonable in demanding an additional 3000 florins after agreeing to 6000...
He knows full well that in doing so he is risking all out war for the sake of greed, which our Lord teaches us is one of the deadliest of sins!
We plead with him to pull back from this precipice and satisfy himself with the original sum which, after all, represents pure profit to his Empire!
Asinus Asini
08-26-2009, 06:06
Venice wants to pay 1000 florins upon 6 months whereas the treaty first stipulated 6000 florins upon peace. It is simply a petty excuse for Venice to swindle the Empire, in their merchant kind of way.
The Lemongate
08-26-2009, 06:09
The Archbishop sighs at this renewed confrontation.
I doubt the King will pursue conflict with the Republic over the matter of how and when war reparations are to be payed. Though Venice might not be able to pay up the agreed upon sum in total right now, unless the Doge infringes the spirit of the treaty, he is to be considered as duly living up to his obligations by offering regular tribute. For the Empire's sake, it could be made to 6500 florins at most to cover the delay, but 9000 is clearly preposterous at this point.
The Emperor surely knows that his generosity towards his fellow Christian will be repaid tenfold in Heaven.
Étienne then turns his attention to the Saracen diplomat.
Should the Emperor need Venice's permission to traverse his own lands? Please do not spew forth any more inanities to envenom this pointless conflict.
The fortifications around Bologna are most unfortunate indeed. Imperial soldiers will have to occupy them before any entente can be signed. This, however, should not be cause for war as it is but a simple logistics matter which can easily be resolved and will profit the Empire in the future, protecting the city of Bologna from direct assault.
Giving a wary look towards the Duke of Ancona, he continues:
Venice should also note that it's overly friendly relations with the Saracens are a cause of worry to many of its neighbors. The Republic should choose its friends with care and not run to the first peddler of cheap tricks that would turn its heart from the One True God and from friends who will uphold justice and honor above any warmongering antics.
The Saracen would look rather annoyed.
The only thing Venice has between us is a Trade Alliance. We do not want to give them any supplies, So we found a peaceful way to end this worthless conflict. As I stated before, That was only ment to be a draft of a proposal... Not exactly a finished piece of work. And you rather insult us with "Over Friendly" Term... I guess we have been "Over Friendly" With France, listening to their proposals with our Empire? My current master is set at the moment to have at least good enough relations to trade. Though, You are making him sound like he is a beast..., Something that he has never said about the rulers of Europe.
The Danish envoy looks rather puzzled at all the commotion. He rises and speaks:
I am more and more under the impression that I hear a children squabble rather than a grown-up men discussion. Moreover, it seems to me that HRE emperor is a little frustrated by the fact that international mediation has robbed him of an early and easy victory (with all the support he has enlisted) against a possible future adversary.
May I propose a wrestling contest instead? Or, if you like, a drinking contest, where I would like to join ... the big viking ends his speech with a large grin.
The saracen would look at the viking... and a sweat drip would run down his face... Knowing he would lose BOTH in the long run...
More letters come from the Caliph. It would seem to be a small. very dirty and weathered scroll.
The Caliphate has decided to claim more un-claimed lands, since ours is already reached,
https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/319/55215239.jpg
The gold territories are currently our up to date lands.
Mosul (Belongs to the turks) and Cyprus, (Belongs to the Romans) are Areas in interest of the Caliph, and Wish to buy these land rights.... The... palish color means the new lands that the Caliphate claims.'
If any nation has a conflict with these of interest of the lands he has claimed, not the ones he has interest in. His decision is final. Unless if any of these settlements are already currently being besieged. which we doubt.
He would slide the map around, so that all can see.
The Count of Loritello stants and clears his throat, taking advantage of a moment of silence in the chamber.
"I finnaly have Count Roger message in my hands, he sends his greetings to all sovereign leaders representatives at this honorable table and reasures his position as Defender of the Holy Faith. He´s a close friend and councillor to his Holy Grace at Rome and will be vigiland against threats to the Church.
The Counts nods and takes a moment to observe everyone before continuing.
"Count Roger believes he´s entitled to spread the Holy Faith to lands that have fallen under nefarious influences and claims his position as defender of the following territories: Bari, Sardinia and African lands south of Sicily"
He places the message down to the table and thinks a moment
"he says there´s a map with the specifyed message...but..."
The Counts turns back to his assistants "Sigrid, the map is not here". She quickly comes closer to whisper to him in rushed tones "You asked to study it during the travel here Papa!". He listens ot her and ponders, clearly intrigued, taping his fingers to the table. "Oh...it´s not that scroll painted with ochre colors is it?". She feels relieved "Yes! That the one! Where´s it?". He scratches his head "Well...funny it was that paper...that was Roger map, heh?...hmm, I fear it was used for other means...". He pets the suddenly choleric Lady and waves her away with a sigh. He turns to adress the chamber again after a little moment "Well, the region names should speak for thenselves, Bari is Bari, Sardinia is Sardinia....and North Africa...is a big desert. There must be some fly infested, forgotten by God setlement south of Sicily, I shall announce the name in the near future." He schrugs.
His hands select the next scroll before him and he addresses the Castille representative.
"The Count of Sicily and the Duke of Apulia and Calabria warmly welcome the Crown of Castille representative to this chamber"
He rolls up the scrolls "That´s it"
The Saracen would sigh at the Sicilian.
Tripoli.... The Caliph has claimed that land. If you proceed to this, We will have to react to this as a Direct attack onto the Caliphate.
phonicsmonkey
08-28-2009, 00:40
The Saracen would sigh at the Sicilian.
Tripoli.... The Caliph has claimed that land. If you proceed to this, We will have to react to this as a Direct attack onto the Caliphate.
Jozsef furrows his brow and shoots a piercing gaze at the Saracen.
Does not the Caliph have enough land by now? Surely he can learn to share with our Sicilian brothers.
The Saracen would just shake his head.
We have given them... Plenty of time to claim it... But we have been sitting here.. and hearing nothing. After Reporting this the Caliph sends armies that are already onrout to Tripoli... Then when he spends his troops time on this operation, We are only Disrespected by the Sicilians. They have been warned.
The Duke of Ancona looks thoughtful.
"Perhaps this can be solved quite simply, and without any further talk of war. Venice has close trading ties with both the Sicilian Duke and the Saracen Sultan, and he would not want to see them go to war.
Because neither nation seems to have any previous relations with the strip of desert in question, it can be assumed that they both have an equal claim to the land. I propose that whichever nation manages to besiege the outpost of Tripoli first shall have the rights to it- provided that they do not fight each other to get to it. This way, we may have a sort of friendly "contest" of speed, rather than a full-blown war over a strip of worthless desert. I am sure the ships of both nations are equally suited for such a competition."
The Duke seat himself, mentally patting himself on the back for the brilliant plan he has come up with.
The Saracen would only laugh now...
A speed of Contest.. is that your bright Idea of stopping Wars... If that was the Case, The Caliphate would of announced first one to claim Venice is a speed contest...
You call Africa Worthless... Due to it is Muslim. We have not once called any European lands "Worthless"
It is very clear what Sicily is doing... They are challenging the Caliph. They have already seen that we have claimed these lands, and wish to challenge us for them... The Caliph's forces will not back down from their claims on Muslim Land. If they wish to invade Tripoli, Lands claimed by the Caliph. He is declaring war on the Caliph. Like we said as before... They have been warned. King of Sicily will be deciding if there will be a full blown war, or peace.
The Duke is amused at the Saracen's misunderstanding.
"Now, now... I have not called the lands of Tripolitania worthless because they are populated, however sparsely, by followers of Islam. The fertile Nile and Euphrates are Muslim lands, yet we both know that they are far from worthless. The land surrounding Tripoli, however, is quite barren, and if I may be blunt, a sea of sand dunes. There is certainly nothing in those lands that is worth a war. Certainly nothing that, in, a thousand years or so might be more valued than gold. Nope, there cannot be anything of use under those dunes, that might be obtained with an outlandish drilling device. Nothing at all.
:clown:
And that is the only reason why I suggest, since it is such an extraneous province, that too much thought not be wasted on who is to own it. However, if you wish to start a giant war over it... be my guest. Venice has already been down that road, and does not like where it leads. In case of any sort of conflict, we will follow the wise example our Magyar friends set for us, and proclaim neutrality. It would take a high price to persuade us to war again.
As for your other comment about the jewel of Italy herself... I will ignore it, to keep the spirit of this council less hostile."
With that, the Duke sits again.
The Saracen would just sigh...
My appologies if I insulted the Venice council in any way...
We will do what we do best... Ignore the claims that Sicily made on Tripoli. and continue on cource. It must be obvious that the Sicilian king has not heard about the caliph's land claims... since it seems he has sent a common city dweller.
All we can do is Notify the European council that Caliph's forces are in-rout to Tripoli. Please keep of the area if you want to avoid trouble. As this is our newest location for a trade network hub, to trade to our western Moorish Caliphate. Any forces beseiging or captured will be removed. That is all the Caliph's orders are for the west... Due to he is now trying to free Baghdad from rebels, He has put eastern expansion as top priority to keep conflicts low. We though, ask the European council, to respect that most part of Africa is dominantly muslim. and that the two greater Muslim Nations... The Moorish Caliphate and the Caliphate I represent will hold down from rebellion.
We hope that sicily tells his king this message, and stay clear of our armies... unless if he wants to provoke more un-needed anger.
The Count of Loritello seemed amused with the sudden discussions at the table. He stands up after the conversations calm down and moves in large steps to the Sarracen side to study the dirty scroll map. "Tripoli right? Yes by what I can remmeber that´s the place from Roger map too. Boy...you are in trouble. Roger may be already there. You know, his claim is much older than yours...really" He nods.
"But lets reason here about your claim for a moment" He takes poscession of some discarted chicken leg bones at the table plate. "Look, I dont know that much about maps, but..." He lines a few bones from Jerusalen to Tripoli, then one big leg from Sicily to Tripoli. "You see, this desert land is much closer from Sicily than from Jerusalem, 5 bones to 1!!" He nods "Quite a far away place to do a battle, isnt it?".
"Anyway!! You should not try to flatten Roger with that "King" talk, we have trouble enouth with him calling himself a "Grand" Count. ((The Sicily Kingdom starts in 1130)). I advise you to stay away form these lands, the Sicilian navy is notoriously agressive...quite a bunch of rascals"
He turns to return to his place then remmebers something. "Oh, by the way, the norman kids can iinsult better than you...common city dweller?" He laughs and taps the sarracen shoulder roughly with his mailed hand. "You will need to try harder silky boy".
The Count walks back to his place and is intercepted by his assistent Lady "Papa, we MUST message uncle about all this!" He sits down and nods "Yes, do it. Warn Roger the Sarracens...from Jerusalem, want his desert too. I would love to see his face!" He laughs
Cultured Drizzt fan
08-28-2009, 16:18
John Rises, his hands holding a short Missive.
My lord wishes to say that at the moment his diplomat is journeying south to the great city of Rome, and beyond those nations he meets on the way he will not be available for Diplomatic contact. We are sorry if this Inconveniences Denmark, who we wish to establish an Alliance and trade with, but it would appear that he may have to be the one to open contact.
Once we are at the Holy city we will be sure to speak to all diplomats in the area about trade and other possible deals.
Thats about it.....
John Sits back down, looking slightly bored
As we said, This turn we will be landing and taking it. Declaration of War onto the Caliphate will mean the Recapture of Sicily. Since it is just recently that you butchered all of our brothers in Sicily for your greedy needs.
Our boats have been traveling for 5 turns now. We will not turn back.
As stated before, you have been warned.
Ibn-Khaldun
08-28-2009, 17:34
Prince Rodrigo raises an eyebrow...
What is this term "turn" you are using, Saracen? A pagan way to count time?
Also, Saracen, unless you can prove that you are from nobility you should choose your words carefully. Peasants does not warn Nobles unless they want to be hanged.
So, do you, Saracen, want to be hanged?
The Lemongate
08-28-2009, 18:16
The Archbishop stirs on his seat at the Saracen's renewed talk of war.
In matters that concern Africa, the Kingdom of the Franks stands unconcerned. However, be warned that should your ships decide to lauch an attack on the lands of Christian Princes, we will have no other choice but to declare war on the Caliphate and respond with our entire might.
It is not the wish of the King to engage in fruitless wars, but you are becoming more contemptuous and aggressive by the day and this cannot be tolerated.
The Saracen would only laugh at the rather barbaric prince.
Please. Personal threats now? and Calling us Pegan. We're Muslim, like half of Iberia is Muslim.
I am a Royal Diplomat to relay the news of the Caliph's Will. I am no more of the Caliph's property. I am from a well off family, and I've gone to the University of Cairo, I doubt you have one in your lands. but any ways. We are the speaker of the Caliph. We have accepted this invintation of France, To allow us to negotiate a solution to the Pilgrimage to our Capital. We were the first nation to attempted to break up a conflict between what would of been a bloody war.
I may not be from Noblity, But I am an effective tool, that the Caliph has sent to this court room of Diplomacy. We advise the PRINCE of Leon and Castile to not threaten I a non noble servent of the Caliph. The last rather intense arguement that The Romans and I had got into rather put the host of the court, in a very bad mood.
So please, Try to refrain from your barbaric vision, keep that back in the lands you come from. Your Un-provoked Hostilies are... rather rude. So, If I could give you from more advice. Please try to respect the Forign court and their hosts. I am very sure they would be quite upset if Europe was barred from the holy lands, simply because a biligerant Prince decided to kill the Caliph's Diplomat, for simply relaying a message that has nothing to do with him... Fool.
The Saracen would look at the Archbishop.
Ofcourse. My mistake to bring such a topic up. I will try to find a new way to resolve of this... if not, We will defend Africa, but will not invade Sicily, The only reason is because we Respect the French council.
So Any ways, I wish to solve this peacefully though. I will offer Sicily some florins to leave North Africa, as in since, it seems they have not been expanding at all... So... We hope we can get out understanding across the the Silicians, As we have never wanted war, But Tripoli would create an excellent trade post to Sicily, and maybe hope for a trade alliance or even better, set up a shipping rout to the south of france and to the moors!, instead of a rather foolish war.
The Saracen would only laugh at the rather barbaric prince.
...
So please, Try to refrain from your barbaric vision, keep that back in the lands you come from. Your Un-provoked Hostilies are... rather rude. So, If I could give you from more advice. Please try to respect the Forign court and their hosts. I am very sure they would be quite upset if Europe was barred from the holy lands, simply because a biligerant Prince decided to kill the Caliph's Diplomat, for simply relaying a message that has nothing to do with him... Fool.
The Count turns to Prince Rodrigo with a surprised look. "It´s just me the "diplomat" just called you a fool??"
He would glance toward Balthor.
I did call him a fool, For his actions were foolish. Thinking he could hang I, for not even doing any thing to him. In a court, of another nation.
He would lean in alittle still looking though.
Now... I want you to be honest... Why do you seek wasting your armies time against our superior forces... when you havn't expanded even into rebel areas...? Do you plan to stop the forces setting up trade outposts... Simply out of Fear? or to proove yourself as a strong power in Europe? We do not find your reasoning. For us... Well, It's rather simple why we have interests in Tripoli.
Number 1... It's Muslim,
Number 2... It's bordering our lands
Number 3... I can train diplomats and send them by foot to my long off neighbor, the Moorish Caliphate.
Number 4... To trade to the nation of Sicily, and the Moorish Caliphate, which reportedly already has claimed Tunis.
What is your reasons... It's not connected to the island of Sicily, there is almost no use for you to take it... and the population is Muslim... It's as you called it, Worthless sand, that you forgot the name of the area.
We are asking you to be reasonible. and to accept the small gift that we are going to give, and for you to take Tripoli out of your plans. If you fail to do this, Then The Caliphate will have to send forces to convince you this is right. We will destroy your armies, sink your navies, Blockaid your ports so that we choke your economy. If you attack the Caliphate's forces. While this is happening, your neighbors will be progressing, and not want to join a war... Just because of a Muslim settlement, and a war that you started. That settlement means nothing... You even forgot it's name! So, All we ask for you is to be reasonable. and avoid this war, get some money for free. As we only want to have a close, but still non european diplomat post, and trade station, that can trade effectivly to europe, and to the moorish caliphate.
The Duke of Ancona looks frustrated.
"Well, so much for attempting to avoid this war. Both of your belligerent ways make the Doge and I ill at ease, what with a war going on so close to our city. We had hoped to stay neutral, but we will now be forced to support the defender if this conflict blows up into something huge... for we have just dealt with out own wars...
War is bad for business, you see. If both nations which we trade with are at war, our own ships are unable to reach the ports of either during a blockade. We are in financial trouble as it is, and we will endeavor, therefore, to speed this war to its end, if it begins it all. I hope you are happy, because you have forced a proud man to take back his word."
The Duke sits.
We would like to notify the Sicilians that they are coming too close to the Caliphate, and needs to back off their naval invasion forces onto our own already captured lands, (Not Tripoli)
If the Silician did not get the notes, The Caliph during the Fatamid times put up the current Protection Policy, that forbids all forign military class ships and armies away from the coast.
If you fail to move your ships away from the presently claimed lands of the Al-Quds lands, then we will take it as a declaration of war.
... Please note that We are starting to notice your Rogers is breaking all of the rights and protection documents that the caliph put out... and for that, We have withdrawn most part of our eastern armies to the coast, and settlements have been put up to max military alert and production.
Also, the Empire's currently less forces of the eastern expansion has slowed down consierbly, since due to the distance between settlements, and has captured nothing. Withen the Caliphate, the last rebellious settlement. Damascus was sucessfully taken over. with casualties in it's lowest. and with the currentl agreement of the Seljuks, The Fatamid Empire will buy the settlement of Mosul for 12,500 Florins. (We have set our plans to 2,500 for 5 turns so our empire won't be choked up of it's finds for 1 turn.) And Tripoli has not been beseiged yet, but the commander that is currently leading 1200 men, has decided to do something, to see if the Sicilians are just blowing hot air, or will attack the caliph's property. We will assure the Silicians that they will lose this war if they start it. We garentee that.
The Count of Loritello nods and warns that Count Roger received the diplomatic messages and asked the Duke of Appulia to join him for a council. The diplomatic staff cant do further updates as they wait Roger/Robert contact. "He´s probably sailing, he will send a courier ship or special dispatch"
OOC: ((My work got me busy, I will add the next message tonight or tomorrow))
I am sorry to announce this all to the court, but the Caliphate at this time rejects ANY merchants, diplomats, as well of of course, spies, assassins, and priests in his lands. We will have official finalizing diplomats near Rome, and Constantinople. We simply ask of you to respect our demands. Last but not least, any foreign navies or armies near our coast line, military troops near OR inside of our borders will be responded as an act of war. Any agents who ignore this, and still send into our lands, will be executed. Please report to me if you have any of the above, and please ask permission if you so need to do this. We will respond with the utmost haste.
It is not my, or my master's will to gain any enemies, but it is for security measures. We hope you all understand, and respect our most simple requests.
This was some time ago, before the Sicilians arrived. This is just a reminder to any of the newer diplomats in the room, We have posted up rules. This is to avoid any conflict that you may stumble on, so that one of your ships have done.
Ofcourse If the Sicilians do let us have Tripoli with out conflict. Tripoli will be open to Diplomats, and naval ships carrying Diplomats.
We hope that conflict can be avoided, and the Caliph will generously give 5,000 florins to the Sicilian accounts for letting us have this settlement, and avoiding an un-necessary war that would bog down a portion of my force, and all of the Sicilians.
Would that be fair?
The Count of Loritello looks insistently to the chamber door until it opens. His assistant walks into the room carrying some scrolls and stands beside him. He clears his throat and announces that Count Roger of Sicily and Duke Robert of Appulia have sent news from the south.
"First, we sadly need to announce that Robert Guiscard, the Duke of Appulia and Calabria has passed away. He lost the fight against a fever he got during the Bari campaign. But, his son Mark Hauteville assumes the position as the new Duke"
The Count pausess, clearly upset.
"Back to the problems at hand, Roger addresses the topics delivered by the Caliphate of Jerusalem; Tripoli may be muslin now, but was christian when it was Africa Proconsularis, our rulers do not antagonize other religions as we have muslins in our lands and army. We cant just claim everything that touches our borders, we surely cant claim Rome because they are at our frontier. Our rulers have no laws against diplomats or merchants at Africa, they can pass freely. We would be happy to trade with the Caliphate, there´s no need for the town of Tripoli to do that."
He shifts to the next scroll.
"However, Count Roger and Duke Mark are not claiming Tripoli for petty reasons. The Qaid of Ṭarā-bu-lus al-Gharb, IbnSallud, that rules Tripoli has asked Count Roger help to retake his lands that fell to traitors of his family. Count Roger has generously agreed to send an expedition to retake that city from rebels and reinstate the Qaid to his rightful seat. IbnSallud himself has sent us a document explaining this agreement in detail..."
He reaches for another scroll at the Lady hands, but she wont let it go. "I have the scroll Sigrid". She glares to him and says "No, you have NOT Papa, I will show it to anyone who asks. You will NOT hold official documents after what you did to uncle Roger map!". He glares back to her, but after the short contest of wills he releases the scroll as if it was burning him. "hmm...very well, yes, Lady Sigrid has the document and will show it to anyone that asks". She gives a short curtsy and displays the scroll written in Arabic.
The Count mumbles "...why cant my family´s woman be more tamable?" He glaces to the Lady, sighs and shifts to the next scroll.
"Roger thanks the Caliphate of Jerusalem for the 5.000 florins offer but observes his agreement with Qaid IbnSallud and his current spending with this expedition make the offer not attractive enouth."
"He observes that the sicilian fleet to the east was blown by a squall and is heading back west. It was just an unfortunate event."
The Count of Loritello nods to the foreign representatives present and seats back to his chair.
We hate to already announce, but the Al-quds western expansion army is already at tripoli, from it's long journy. Though, since you showed hostile signs, they have forted in stiking distance of Tripoli. As our forces are ALREADY in the lands of Tripoli, In force of 1200 men. They will not turn back after such a long journy, We insist that the Silicians take the money, Since our forces are already there. Unless you want to pay us 5,000 for funds for sending them back home like if they had suceeded with taking the city. That is your choice. Until then, We will not permit any one to even touch Tripoli. Any beseiging armies on Tripoli, will be intercepted and destroyed.
We reccomend that you spend your time wisely, and capture the Italian islands before his northern allies do. Sadly we have to say... As the Moorish Empire is already at Tunis, We want to have a land connection to the Moorish Empire. Africa is Muslim. The Two Caliphates will control Africa. We ask the Silicians to please re-rout their armies. As they are interfeering, and possibly aiding Heritics from linking the two great caliphates.
The Saracen would stand up in the court, after many days of no real news.
The Caliph is pleased to announce that The Eastern and Western armies have achived major goals today.
The Western has captured Triplolii, but the main army has retreated to a fort right beside of the settlement, as it is, We have spotted a large naval invasion force of Silician armed peasants. For this, We demand that all silician army troops please move away from our coastal lines yet again. This time, Two of the Three defending armies will be dispatched with the Navy of the Caliph. If the silicians do not follow through our demands, we will have no choice but to increase defensive positions agaisnt them.
As for the Eastern front, a major victory has dawned onto us, As Baghdad was captured. As much of the eastern expansion army rejoices, and over 75% of the army now heads back to Antioch, the remanding willbe progressing.
Last but not least, We ask the Moorish empire to please send a diplomat to Tripoli, so that we can happily get our trade going, as it has finally happened, Africa is connected by Major Islam Powers now.
The Saracen would sit down most happily.
Ramses II CP
09-25-2009, 13:36
The slim Moorish emissary bows in the direction of the Saracen man and replies,
A diplomat is being trained as we speak, Allah willing, and he will arrive as rapidly as he can be carried to the city. We have constructed a watch tower on our mutual border to keep us aprised of the situation at Tripoli and, though we take no sides in the matter, we would have both parties know that the circumstances are being monitored. The good Muslims of Tripoli should not be mistreated no matter how the great powers who contend for their city reach completition of their goals.
Trade is good! We look forward to sending our trade fleets east to your rich lands.
:egypt:
A messenger enters the room and quietly approaches the roman diplomat. A scroll is handed down to his servant who then speaks to the roman's ear. After a few minutes, the diplomat roses.
My dear colleague of Al-Quds, it has come to my attention that your people have let loose some "missionaries" on the Island of Cyprus. These have somehow decided to try and convert our people to Islam which is resulting in minor local unrest. I may have to believe that you are trying to steal our Castle instead of paying for it. Therefore, I must politely ask you to repatriate your priests before more trouble starts. If not, then we will have to take action to "remove" them from our lands. I hope that the court will understand that these priests are on Roman Soil without authorization and are illegally converting Romans to Islam which we are considering an aggression. I will say it again: please remove your converters from our lands before we are forced to remove them ourselves.
He also adds:
I am sorry for the delay of this message, it seems that our messenger had trouble getting on the continent. First, he was harrassed by an army of men with strange cloth-hats trying to convert him to another religion. And second, since there was no ferry at the time, he had to take a small fishing boat, but he had no navigational skills, and so he lost himself, the fool. It was another fishing boat who found him, half-dead of thirst. Eventually, his other half died too but that does not matter much, for the message he was carrying was more of importance than his life.
Asinus Asini
09-30-2009, 03:07
The roman ambassador sends his assistant to go fetch chicken, sausages, and other meats if possible.
Asinus Asini
10-01-2009, 04:18
At the arrival of a gigantic platter of various meats, the german ambassador starts eating with great appetite. On his attacking the veal sausages, a messenger with the colors of the Emperor arrives running to him and stops a few feet away. The ambassador's remarkable concentration soon pivots from the now defunct Bratwurst to what looks like a swan with a back ripe for the eating.
Unwilling to disturb the large man in his seemingly major enterprise, the stringy messenger nervously looks around to spot a nearby lackey to which he gives a document. The corpulent official, hearing his assistant talking to the messenger, lift his head, and on seeing the letter, drops a great piece of meat, and tries with great effort to stand up to cross the distance that separates him from the worthy document. He fails, with great violence to his digestion, hits the food platter which dumps half the food to the floor, and falls back to his chair.
With a dying gesture he beckons his lackey to hurry up and bring the letter. He takes it, frowns at his assistant and unfolds it and sigh. He stands with more caution, looks around to spot worthy members of the audience and clears his throath
Eus Necavit, necabit. The Kaiser is outraged. Venice in his agressive expansion hast once again declared war to one of his Christian neighbor. If there are justifications to this, the Kaiser would like to hear them for if the Kaiser has accepted against many advice to offer Venice peace it was not for the Doge to use that peace to bring war to another of his Christian brothers!
The Duke of Ancona stands, looking on the morbidly obese German with some mixture of pity and disgust.
"I am unsure, sir, if I should even bother to respond to your accusations anymore, as they seem to become more and more unreasonable as your Emperor goes longer and longer without having someone to kill.
I assume, by being ambiguous, you mean to imply that my Doge is waging war on one of the members of this council, and so slander my nation. That notion is untrue; we have merely gone to war with the pitiful state of Genoa, which we claimed as our own at least 10 years ago.
Furthermore, if you intend to imply that you yourself have not gone to war with your fellow Christians- Bologna, Bohemia, and Switzerland, perhaps to name a few- then you are simply a hypocritical fool. I am not required nor inclined to justify my actions to you, especially if they do not concern you in the slightest.
Please, do continue to threaten me. It will only make you look all the more belligerent; and frankly, the notion that I would even consider starting a war with you and dragging in France, the Greeks, and God knows who else against us, after that last debacle, is laughable. If your nation sees war, German, it will be because you have started it, and no one else."
The Duke sits, watching in slight amusement as the German continues to shove more sausages down his throat.
Cultured Drizzt fan
10-01-2009, 11:16
John yawns
Good times all around. I think I am going to go take a nap. Send someone to fetch me when something important happens.
John smiles and leaves the room, a messenger sitting diligently to write down anything that transpires while he is away. As John leaves he says simply
Don't start any wars while I am gone.
Asinus Asini
10-01-2009, 18:03
The ambassador frowns, looks at the letter in his hands,
Gracious Duke of Ancoma, never has the Kaiser started a war nor threatened you. If we remember correctly, the Kaiser was the one to offer a peace upon the war you started.
Another messenger arrive at the court, and delivers a scroll to the roman ambassador. He then rises slowly but steadly, not hiding his anger.
I have just recieved a message that the Sultanate of Seljuk have captured Isparta. As I recall, we claimed this city at the beginning of this conference and further more, it is my belief that the seljuk diplomat and I had a private chat and that he agreed to peacefully leave Isparta to us. It is treason and we demand that you give the city back to us immediately or we will come and take it by force. Actually our forces are in route right now, as we were planning to retake it from the hands of the rebels and our reconnaissance force found a Seljuk flag up on the city walls.
It is also my duty to tell the Al-Quds Caliphate that we recieved your message and agreed on the trade.
barcamartin
10-03-2009, 14:56
Indeed, Seljuk forces have captured Isparta. We judged the settlement to be better off in Seljuk hands than lead by rebels. It is regrettable that our message to the Emperor regarding this was lost en-route to Constantinople. We also reject the earlier Roman claim to the settlement, and regret that our former ambassador accepted it. Isparta is Seljuk, and will remain so.
If the Romans have not captured Isparta, and are just "Sending forces now" to Isparta. We clearly show support to our Turkish Allies. You can not claim something, and then ignore it for 4 or more years with out even showing interest or the ability to even send a small army to capture it.
The roman diplomat whispers something in his servant's ear, who in turn, walks out the court room with great haste. Gabrielus Angelus then turns around to look at his muslim collegues and says:
So be it.
barcamartin
10-03-2009, 23:49
I consider that a declaration of war, Roman. Mark my word, your empire will pay for this.
Gabrielus says with a grave look in his eyes:
You consider only what you will. To our eyes, your actions WERE a declaration of war, but you were to much of a coward to tell us face to face. Have you told us your intentions, we might have talked out an agreement, but now your sneakiness and arrogance will be your downfall. We only wish to reclaim what is rightfully ours, but if YOU wish a full scale war, then by the gods you will have it!
The Saracen Diplomat rather looks confused...
... The Caliphate of Al-Quds do not know how to react to this, the aggressor and victoms are fogged beyond to compare.
You have the romans, who set laughable land claims, and still not have been able to think about one of their closest land claims in over four years. Of which He has also done with Antioch, though, at the last second he has given us permission to invade it due to were were neighboring it with our already rapid expanding empire, Reason would be most likely to avoid a war.
Now the Seljuks, The seljuks have no where really to go besides the east. which is very seperated, and they have been waiting patiently for the Romans to take the Isparta, 4 and half years roll by and there is still not even an attempt to organise an army to take Isparta, so Seljuks just take Isparta.
Now the Romans are over reacting and not seeing what is wrong with delaying for so long, and now both will be going into a bloody war.
Since we have an Defensive alliance, but it is not clear if they were aggressors, The Al-Quds will make an agreement to NOT join the war if the Allies of the Romans do NOT join the war for their sake, This is a very generous proposal yes?
With all honesty, I do not believe I have to explain to you why we haven't captured it yet, but yes, since we thought we had an agreement with the seljuk, we took our time tending to other matters because we believed we HAD this time.
OOC: I am not as nearly as experienced as you guys, and so I'm a bit slow. Please do not blame me for being a noob...
Now, as I see it, it is a matter between me and the Seljuks, and the less bloodshed the better. With this idea in mind, I will let my allies do as they see fit.
barcamartin
10-04-2009, 13:05
War it is. Nicaea and Constantinople have fallen to the righteous might of the Seljuks. Allah has clearly blessed our cause.
The matter of Isparta is but one part of the puzzle. Distrust and rivalry between our nations is and has always been unavoidable.
Cultured Drizzt fan
10-04-2009, 14:27
John stumbles into the room, eyes blurry and looking at a piece of parchment.
I said not to start any wars while I was gone.
He bursts out laughing, breaking some of the tension setting into the room
We congratulate our nieghbor with exicuting the invasion very well. We are glad to see that our neighbors expansion has just started..
Onto other news, I really would wish that the Silicians would stop being so aggressive, We do not want to send our military might after them just because they are being too nosey with out currently claims. An army that beat them to their target that is over 5x more of the distance than it was for them.
Any ways, The Romans might want to sign a peace treaty before something worst happens.
The fact that you are already in Roman soil makes it very clear to me. You had been preparing this for a long time and now you show your treacherous true face. Retribution will come as the Thunder of Jupiter rains down on you!
The Lemongate
10-04-2009, 20:46
As the Greek emissary slams his fist upon the table, fifty trumpets sound a thunderous canon through the Grande Salle sending nobles scurrying out of the central hall, armored guards in gleaming ceremonial armor form a hedge of steel and silver leading to the throne and the King, accompanied by princess Agnes and the Archbishop of Reims, takes his place upon the throne.
The news of the fall of Constantinople saddens our hearts. Constantine's City had held fast so many great sieges that it had aquired, here in the West, an aura of invincibility. We now see how gravely we were mistaken. The Greeks, in their carelessness seem to have lost their right to claim God's Greatest City as their own and for that we shed no tear. But Rome still lives on in the West were the Empire is strong, shielded by the True Faith and blessed with bountiful lands and the guidance of the Holy Father.
But whilst Constantinople remains in heathen hands, the days grow colder as if all the light in the world had been dimmed. That is why we have returned with haste from our travails in Flanders and Navarra. Pope Gregory himself has written to us on the subject and he is adamant: the Queen of Cities can not be left in Moslem hands! The conflict between the Greeks and the Turks is irrelevant to us, but we must settle the issue of Constantinople lest the Hosts of Christendom be unleashed upon the East in fiery zeal.
It is understandable that the Kings of the East would not trust the Princes of Christendom to land on their borders, yet the Sultan of the Seljuks will have to compromise if he wishes to remain a member in good standing amongst this council of nations. Yet, we do not wish to add to his worries by choosing too bellicose a neighbor for him, and that is why we suggest the Great City be left in the care of the Venitians. Already they have an outpost in the eastern Mediterranean and they are on friendly terms with Al-Quds. They are good Christians and will shelter the now leaderless flock of Constantinople. There is, as we see it, no reason for the Seljuks to refuse this reasonable request unless they are ready to be swept aside by the tides of Christendom and forgotten to the pages of history.
The Duke of Ancona looks pleasantly surprised by the French King's suggestion.
"Indeed, this seems a fine resolution to this conflict. We had dreaded being forced to take a side in this war, because we are on friendly terms with both the Turk and (the Duke visibly stifles a gag) the Greeks. We fear for the well-being of the Turkish state, whose trespasses on the Continent we are sure many Christian nations will not take kindly to. And we also understand the plight of the (the Duke coughs) poor, defenseless Greeks. Since we have such friendly relations to the Turk, both nations can rest assured that neither their nations nor the Queen of Cities shall be placed under any harm should it be placed under the protection of Venice."
The Duke sits, a rare smile on his aging face.
The Saracen would be rather confused.
What would happen to the Turkish / Roman war? What if the Romans attack the Venetian Constantinople? These answers must be answered before any thing is to happened.
The Roman diplomat took a deep breath, trying to suppress his anger after hearing the Frank's King's speech. After a few seconds, he raises his head.
What if we manage to retake our city before you? Will you pry it from our hands again to then give it to the Venitians, saying they might be more fit to have it? You speak as if it was a mere toy, as if we were children. It saddens me how the world now sees the Great Roman Empire.
You, great King of the Franks, seem to take a liking in deciding the Fate of other nations, deciding OUR own right to OUR City. I will not bow down and beg you to reconsider, for whatever you might say will not change our will to protect what is ours. We will retake Konstantinopolis, and punish the treacherous Turks, who broke their agreement with us and attacked our lands without provocation! And if you then come to take it from us, then we will defend it with all our might, for we will die before surrendering our grand city!
The Lemongate
10-04-2009, 23:21
Philippe looks with contempt at the Greek man.
Your incompetance cost all of Christendom its greatest city, the Jewel of the World. A toy? Had it been in the hands of steadfast Catholics, then there would've been no reason, let alone any opportunity for the Moslems to strike against it. As for the fate of nations, we care little for what becomes of this rabble that once belonged to the proud race of Caesar and Alexander. Your sins and those of your fathers have severed any link you might have to the glories past you call upon to justify your prestige. We have no intention to make war upon the Greeks. You are already in dire enough straits as it is now. No, we will simply do the task God has appointed all Christians: to protect the flock of Jesus Christ - a task it seems you were ill-suited to do.
Philippe then turns towards the Fatimid and Seljuk diplomats:
We trust the Venitians will be able to hold Constantinople and protect it from any agressor. Are they not allies of the Caliphate? We are certain you can ensure their protection.
As you were keen on protecting the Moslems of Tripolitania, we are keen to see that the Christians of the East are not mistreated, that is why we proposed Venice, a friendly party to the Moslems, to be their protector. We are certain that you can arrive at an agreement between yourselves but we stand ready to help ease any proceedings. But beware, should Constantinople not be returned to Christian hands, there will be war on all sides.
phonicsmonkey
10-04-2009, 23:27
The Magyar Joszef jumps to his feet, sending a tankerd of ale crashing to the stone floor. He turns to the Turk, waving his burly arms as he entreats him.
Brother Turk, we Magyar and your Turkic people are of a common stock, born of the steppe with a swift horse under us and the wind in our hair.
We do not wish to war with you, but you are sorely provoking us by your attack on our ally and your invasion of Greece.
You must withdraw from the city of Constantine - we simply cannot abide your presence there, so close to our own borders.
Think hard on this, for it would be a dark day that our bows be drawn against you.
The Saracen would nod at the frenchmen.
The Al-Quds do have friendly relations, though, The city you request is not ours to give, and it is the seljuks.
As it is, We would only see the Venicians as the only catholic nation fit with this, since this is, technically their dream trade city.
Asinus Asini
10-05-2009, 03:27
The ambassador who was napping after his meal is woken by his assistant. He is ready to scoil him but notice the energy in the room and calms himself. After listening to his assistant, he quickly stands up :
That is laughable; Constantinople was entrusted to the East Roman Empire by God himself; if they lost it to Muslems it is their duty, and their duty alone to capture it back. Venice has shown the desire to cross steel with already three of its Christian neighbor, namely the Holy Roman Empire, the Genoese and the Papal States, and now you believe we should trust the Doge's love of God with so much as a holy city?
He then puts his assistant at work on a letter for the Kaiser
The Duke smirks at the German ambassador's continually slanderous tongue, and makes a mental note that the corpulent one has a mind that runs on one track.
Asinus Asini
10-05-2009, 04:16
The ambassador then continues :
And if Constantinople is not returned to a legitimate Christian nation, the Germans will have no choice but to join into a crusade to retake the Great City of Constantine.
... The Saracen would be utterly confused.
With us already settling for an agreement... What "Crusade" are you joining? Are you making your own crusade? Also... How does the The Holy Roman Empire deserve a city that far east? They are no where near it. I would make it clear that none of Constantinople's neighbors would respect such a neighbor. The French have decided on the Venicians since they have good relations with the Eastern Powers, The Holy Roman Empire's Relations are quite... Horrible to say at the least.
Al-Quds refuse the Holy Roman Empire's claim over Venetians on Constantinople. We agree with the Frenchmen on this. We will also talk to our northern ally so that we can make all parties (Besides the Romans) happy.
Asinus Asini
10-05-2009, 08:22
The german ambassador laughs at the confusion of the Egyptian.
Do you really think the Kaiser gives any importance to your opinions, Muslems? This is between the Romans and the Sultanate of Seljuk, may they be wise in giving Constantinople swiftly back to the East Roman Empire. It is not a question of who deserves the city, but who will protect it and uphold all it represents, which is the perduring might of the now divided Great Roman Empire when Egypt was merely a province of Rome.
The Romans have failed to protect it, I doubt that the germans can Protect it. The Roman Empire is nothing, Look at it now, Nothing but a mere shadow that will be removed. Sadly though, The Roman Empire is stronger than the Germans with their forced peasant armies.
The Fact is that the Romans have provoked a war, and there for lost Constantinople and other major cities. Do you see them fit? No, But they are more fit to rule it than you, does that not say something?
The Caliphate of Al-Quds will only allow the Seljuks or the Venicians rule Constantinople. The Germans have no say in this, Worthless as they are. Their Opinions can not be backed.
So far the only Catholic Idea that sounds good is the French so far. We advise the Germans to please remain quite while the Major powers discuss a way how Muslim and Catholic Powers can both be peaceful over this.
barcamartin
10-05-2009, 15:55
Abdhul stands, waiting for the intense murmurs in the room to fade away.
I find it highly flattering that so many nations are interested in the well-being of my nation. Our war is against the Byzantines, The Eastern Roman Empire, or whatever they wish to call themselves, not against the Herd of Catholics gathered under the Pope.
We have no quarrel with the people of Western Europe, and we most certainly do not wish strife with our brothers in Hungary. We also accept the fact that the city of Constantinople is of outmost important to Christians, and the fact that a majority of the populace in this princely city are followers of a different God than ours.
We can see the sense behind having an absolutely neutral Catholic nation in command of the city, and to prevent our beloved Anatolia being scourged by the greed of foreign nations we will accept such a deal. We have had successful negotiations with the Venetians in the past, and the words of our valued ally, The Caliph, weigh into the equation.
The Sultan accepts ceding control of Constantinople to the Doge of Venice on the following conditions:
- The Venetian Doge pledges to not use his new found influence in the region against the Seljuk nation.
- The name of the city will remain Konstantiniyye in remembrance of the Seljuk conquest.*
- All Catholic nations agree to not meddle in the current conflict between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Seljuk Sultanate of Konya. All talk of a "Crusade" and any other invasion of our lands must be abandoned.
- Should the Venetian Doge fail to keep Konstantiniyye out of Roman, or any other hostile nation's, hands, the Sultan reserves his right to act and once more wrench it out of hostile control, until the Doge can guarantee the city's safety.
- This is in no way a cease-fire. We do not trust the Roman presence in Antolia. If the Romans are willing to cede us their holdings east of the Aegean we shall consider a peace settlement.
*
Might be slightly unrealistic, since all nations would have different names for it, but this matter concerns the in-game naming of the city. Btw, thanks again for your naming list, Lemon.
If we can agree on these terms, the fate of Konstantiniyye is in Venetian hands. My representative is just west of Venice, authorized to finish the deal. We will contact the Doge in private to settle terms regarding governance of the city.
I fail to see how WE provoked the war when it was clear that the Turks broke their agreement with the Roman Empire. It is also clear that their armies were lying in wait to attack at the slightest sign of hostility, and their quickness to attack our holy city is proof. They knew how we would react from a roman city claimed by the Turks. They had the intention of attacking us from the beginning and they provoked us in a war to gain a reason to attack. Crafty business indeed...
I fail to understand why you people won't acknowledge this. Well, that is except the muslems with their very biased vision of the world. I understand that Al-Quds will never say it out loud, that their ally is in the wrong here, even if they know it... but maybe in their heads, they are in the right, we never know... They are hard to analyse under their big cloth hats!
Does not the fact that we had reduced security to the east shows that we were ready to give our trust to our neighbor? We were ready to erase our tenious past and start anew! But we realise now that is was a mistake, a mistake that shall never be repeated. Never again shall the Turks be trusted, and as such, we cannot trust that they will stop if we surrender our cities. So we will not surrender and fight , at least until all roman land had been reclaimed!
I honestly don't see how you declared war on a neighbor who had superior defenses, and just used his defenses as an offense,
You declared war AFTER you did your turn, and the turks had the first move, It isn't simply just the "Swift action." He was expecting you to declare war on him, as you did, but you did not even have a defending force when you did, which costed you dearly.
I agree with the Seljuk Offer.
Yet again you say we declared the war... well maybe so... or maybe the Turks would have if we have been fast enough to capture Isparta before them...
You also speak of defenses... how do you call soldiers hidden in trees near our border, or even maybe inside our territory.
OOC: sorry again for that... if he managed to capture 2 of my cities in the first turn of the war, my guess is that his units were close. Maybe even in boats, I don't know.
I also find it funny that even though this conflict is with the Turks, I'm trying to argue with you, Fatimid, and that the Turks seldom speak, but with a cold voice that doesn't care what plague he brings in roman soil...
Cultured Drizzt fan
10-05-2009, 20:14
Is the Al Quds diplomat drinking a bit too much? What "turn" is he speaking of (:clown:)
The Al-qud's diplomat falls out of his chair from drinking too much... and mumbles...
FIRST STRIKE BEFORE ANY ONE CAN REACT!!!... XD
The Al-Quds diplomat diplomat will raise.
The Tripoli situation has become quite extreme, and we have come up with a solution, We have pulled back from Tripoli, and will ask the Silicians of a fair price of 1,000 florins for the battle and men we lost. If they accept this, The Province is theirs, also... We have a diplomat on the way, to Naples. Would you accept?
Ramses II CP
10-06-2009, 01:56
The Moorish emissary's eyes widen at the Al-Qud's remarks. He quickly rises and bows in the diplomat's direction.
Your restraint and commitment to good trade are much to be applauded! I call on the most honorable Sicilians to respect this offer and show their appreciation and good will in return. We are not so very different people. There can be cooperation and good will between us. Insha'allah it may always be so!
:egypt:
The Duke of Ancona stands, addressing the Turk.
"I will accept your offer, noble Turk, and my nation will endeavor to protect the city of Constantinople from any outside forces."
The Duke would then turn to the Greek.
"As for you, sir, I do hope you will have no quarrel with my nation, as we have no quarrel with you. As soon as the Queen of Cities is transferred to Venetian control, it will be a considered neutral zone and not any part of the war between the Seljuks and the Romans, and not up for the conquest by either nation. As a warning, any besiegement of the city will be considered an act of war and met with the full attention of the Venetian state. We, of course, would hope to avoid this from happening in the first place."
The Duke seats himself.
The Al-Quds diplomat diplomat will raise.
The Tripoli situation has become quite extreme, and we have come up with a solution, We have pulled back from Tripoli, and will ask the Silicians of a fair price of 1,000 florins for the battle and men we lost. If they accept this, The Province is theirs, also... We have a diplomat on the way, to Naples. Would you accept?
Lady Sigrid nodded after the Caliphate announcement, she curtsied to the nation representatives and left the chamber. She went probably after the Count of Loritello that was missing from the meetings the last few days.
After a while some discussion happens outside the chamber doors: FORGET IT, I AM NOT GOING IN THERE AGAIN, MY FAREWELL MESSAGE IS.......WHAT??.......HE WHAT??....I DONT BELIEVE THIS!!
That was followed by a crash when the chamber doors swing inward. The Count of Loritello storms in with full battle gear (scabbard empty). He points to the Caliphate representative: HOW CAN YOU EVEN CONSIDER A SETTLEMENT LIKE THIS?? THATS UNACEPTABLE! He slams his fist to the table, making the goblets at it tremble, after seeing it´s all true by the representative face. He adds, to himself "Roger made me the Tripoli Army Commander, I was preparing to go...he will cancel that now...I tought I was free os this".
He curses something in french and lets himself fall to his chair that clearly creaks with the armor weight. Lady Sigrid approaches cautiously: "Papa, may I send the news to Uncle? So he can decide?" He peeks up and pauses like if considering his options, then nods, frustrated. The Lady feels his pain and tryes to cheer him up "But...there´s war in the east Papa". He snaps back to atention "...What??"
The Saracen would look confused as hell...
... Ummm... If... ... Umm...
He would look around the room.
May any one please translate this!? This man is mad! ... We do not know what to say to this... After your confession... We will sell it to the Venetians for 2,500? A more notable trade post yes?
If you did have any attempt at wanting this, Declaring that you were about to attack the Caliphate was a very... very bold move... We do not wish you to be a neighbor of us... As you are abit too dangerous... Offer withdrawn due to your confession of planning to attack the Caliphate! You should be disgusted that you were even thinking of this, and the Caliph will be informed at once of your most unpleasant acts.
The Saracen would get busy writing him of a message of a letter to the Caliph, informing him of this.
The Duke looks confused.
"Err... what just happened, sirs?
Noble Saracen, I am unsure of the reasoning behind your offer. Why would you want to sell me your lands in Africa? Did you not capture them and nearly start a war with the Sicilians so that you could be sure they would belong to you? Why have you decided you do not want them?
Honestly, my friend, I have no real interest in Tripoli... if you are in some sort of a bind, I suppose I can agree to buy it from you. I cannot, however, spare a lump sum from our empty treasury... if you split this payment up into a tribute, I would be able to allocate the funds to pay for it."
The Duke sits.
The Saracen nods.
The reason is very simple... The Silicians are horrible neighbors. We could never get along as a neighbor. We only wish for the Venicians to be neighbors. As you, have proven your friendship, our trade partners. The Silicians have only proved they only want war. Which is against what we want. So let trade be friendship to us all. Yet again, As the French King says, We are commited to protect any lands in our influence.
Just after the Caliphate represetantive spoke the Count sent a squire to fetch back Lady Sigrid that had already left the chamber.
The Count of Loritello smiles and turns back to the Caliphate representative, making the chair wave dangerously with the armor weight. "Very well...diplomatic maneuvering and stalling for time is more what I expect from you. Bear in mind that Naples and Sicily claim to Tripoli stands. No mather to wich friend you give the wretched place".
The Saracen would sigh...
This is what you expect when small nations send town idiots as diplomats, and have inbred generals...
See your mistakes, Saying that you will declare war on me after I offer a deal for you, ISN'T how you make us happy. Infact, it makes us pull back.
Tripoly is one thing, but when you destroy diplomatic navies (1/2 ship navies which carry diplomats on board.) There are a few in your area. This goes beyond Tripoli. As it is, We have a diplomatic buildings being built a tripoli. If you attack there... Well, may your gods have mercy for you.
Though, If you see how you have made a mistake, and wish to re-deem yourself. Then follow this...
All Silician navies can not go past east of Bari. Due to your confessions of attacking our empire.
We will now ask for 5,000 for Tripoli. Due to your bad intentions.
If you do not want this, then go away. Do not bother us with bluffs. As it is, We are bored of your excuses of your existance... Fighting with a tiny island nation, This is pathetic. We have better things to do.
Nightbringer
10-09-2009, 02:48
A man wearing light chain armor and mud covered boots enters the room and whispers in the ear of the grim faced Rus diplomat before passing him a small scroll and departing. The Rus diplomat reads the scroll and then finally rises, having been seated in silent contemplation as he observes his fellow diplomats for some time now.
I have recieved word from my noble lord that Kieven Rus can no longer stand idly by while our Orthodox brothers are first put to the sword then disrespected by having their proud capitol put under the so called "protection" of a nation that have been regarded as heretics even by your Western Church. While we have so far been on good terms with the Turks we must inform them that continued hostility towards members of the Eastern Church cannot be ignored any longer. We demand that the city of Constantinople be put into the hands of an Orthodox nation that will show true veneration for this historic city. We of course wish to avoid war but we must also be wary of those who show such open hostility to our brothers of the Roman Empire.
The saracen would be annoyed.
Any attacks on our allies either the Venetians Trade settlements in our influence, (Constantinople is now under our influence and protection, though Venice will control it.) or any direct military assistance by Roman Allies will leave the Caliphate no choice but to enter in the war for these two nation's side.
The burly viking looks a little annoyed by all the commotion. He rises and speaks:
Don't you have anything more to do than issue war threats to anyone you see? I am not famous for my patience or guile, but what you generally do here is not diplomacy. I would call it courting disaster, maybe, but not diplomacy. You all seem very eager to shed your countrymen blood. Even the mightiest of lions (Saracens, that means you to) can fall when bitten by a big pack of smaller hyenas.
He then seats and empties his glass. Curiously, the drink seems to be water.
The Saracen would only laugh.
Unlike your kind who would sit back and watch your allies get attacked by several nations.
We will stand by our ally. We have made our claims VERY clear. we hope for none, but we will have to act in force if other nations think of us as weak or liars who don't keep our origional words of protecting our allies.
Asinus Asini
10-09-2009, 19:37
I support the right of the Bizantines to capture Constantinople back from the ambitious Venetian Doge or from Muslims; whomever illegitimately rules it.
The Lemongate
10-10-2009, 02:24
King Philippe looks mildly annoyed at the Imperial diplomat's continued support for a war between Venice and the Greek Kingdom. He then turns to address the mounting threats of the Caliphate.
The Franks have no intention of sending forces to Anatolia to interfere in the Turks conflict with the Greeks, however, we will not permit Moslem powers to claim any part of Greece. As Anatolia and North Africa is within the Caliphate's area of influence, Greece and Eastern Europe are the domain of Christian Princes. With Venice controlling the Golden Gate and the Hellespont, there is no reason for the Sultan of the Turks to send his forces further West. Any such move would be very poorly received and met with utmost determination.
I hope the representative of the Caliph understands our reasonable concern in the matter.
The Saracen would respond.
We understand where the Franks are coming from, But this proposal is flawed some what, It allows christian kingdoms to send raiding parties to our lands, and kill innocent people. In which we will have no way to prevent this from happening.
The Al-Quds Caliphate never wants war from the west, but when they attack our allies or our own empire. We must stop them, and Prevent them from ever doing such an attack again.
The Al-Quds will follow that unless if King Phillipe addresses to this major problem. and we would thank you if you did try to come with some solution.
Also... The Caliph will take sinking of naval ships escorting diplomats as a direct sign of war. So please, Act with peace on your minds, We wish trade from the west, and hopefully maybe friendship one day.
Nightbringer
10-10-2009, 18:47
The Rus spins aroudn to face the Saracen, looking quite perturbed
We see no reason for war as long as my fellow diplomats are willing to reach a mutual agreement. The Orthodox Romans have been assaulted by the Turks with little provocation and have had there capital city taken from them. But now that the fighting has come to an end they are to be further disgraced by having the city handed to the far from neutral Venicians. I cannot fathom how you pretend to see this as just. The only people that have any legitimate claim to Constantinople are the Orthodox Romans. If you continue to issue proclamations and demands without thought of anything but your own gain and security we will be forced to back up what is right with arms.
The Saracen would shake his head.
Most of the Diplomats and even the King of the Franks have agreed that the Venecians will control the city. With that said, I am with support with the King of Franks, the Venician diplomat, and the Turkish Diplomat on the Venician control over Constantinople...
Also to fact that this was all caused by the romans provoking the Turkish, and over all announcing declaration of war onto the Tuikish. And yet his front line was so ill defended that most of his major cities fell withen the first wave of turkish attacks with little or no resistance.
phonicsmonkey
10-10-2009, 20:47
The Magyar Joszef is visibly angered by the Saracen's words. Red in the face, he stands to address the court.
Now hear this man of Egypt - we Magyar are not 'in agreement' with this scheme that has been cooked up in this den of hissing snakes.
You say the Turks were provoked - how so? Certainly not by any public words or actions of the Romans in this Court. As far as I see it they took a city claimed by the Romans from under their noses. Then, when the Romans complained, they took it as a declaration of war and seized their capital! This is outrageous aggression that must not be allowed to stand!
You and others keep talking about how the Roman cities were lightly defended - how does this justify invading their sovereign territory without cause?
I ask those gathered here - would you be comfortable knowing that any lightly-defended city or castle of yours could be snatched by a neighbour without any consequences and without condemnation from the Kings of the world?
Territory must be respected, first and foremost, lest we have anarchy. We do not all garrison our every outpost with a full army, or we would be bankrupt within months.
We strongly support our allies the Romans in their cause, and demand once more that the Turks vacate Constantinople immediately should they wish to remain on friendly terms with the Magyar.
And we are pleased that (alone of the nations of the world it seems) our noble allies the Kaiser and the Tsar also see clearly what is right without being blinded by avarice and cynical strategic calculation.
And to our allies the Venetians - mark our words, if you take up occupancy of Constantinople you will be committing a sin against God and against the Magyar, and our alliance will be no more.
Take not this stolen property offered by the middle-men of bandits.
The Saracen would just grin...
Just the more reason why Constantinope doesn't belong... They let it fall, The Greatest city on earth, Fell to only a few hundred soldiers? Can you beleive this? Do you believe this?
How could of this been prevented? Very easily. The Romans over reacted, They saw a very small Muslim city took over by turks a year LATER it had been taken over, then declared that it was going to attack the Turkish Empire. It the Germans said that they were going to attack, Would you sit and wait for the invasion to come, or would you attack?
Constantinople is a warning call, Do Not PROVOKE our empires into war. We try for peace, but we can not possibly hodl peace when small worthless nations claim that they will invade us.
When did I say we were going to attack the Turks? If I remember properly, I simply sent a messenger to advise my Basileos and the Turks considered this as a declaration of war. And I only replied in my own words that he sees war only because HE wants to see war.
Were you sleeping, fatimid, when this conflict started? Now you should think about what you're going to say before saying it. In Greece, there is a saying..."Better not speak and look like a fool, then speak and give proof of it"... or something like that. I will say it again just in case you did not understand my words with that genetically small brain of yours: I NEVER SPOKE OF WAR. THE TURKS DID.
As I recall, he did declare war to us AFTER taking 2 of our cities. He could have not taken our Konstantinopoulis and asked for an arrangement. He could have tried to intimidate us and ask us to surrender before harm comes to us, but no... he simply went to our Capital. And how did you know how many soldiers were involved in the attack. Did the Turks tell you... or did you have spies in our cities as well?
You are making a fool of yourself the the more you speak. Even the Turks are wise enough not to argue, for they know they sought war and cannot deny it, or they would try to defend themselves too.
The Saracen would sigh and pulls out the important notes of what goes on.
Romans: I have just recieved a message that the Sultanate of Seljuk have captured Isparta. As I recall, we claimed this city at the beginning of this conference and further more, it is my belief that the seljuk diplomat and I had a private chat and that he agreed to peacefully leave Isparta to us. It is treason and we demand that you give the city back to us immediately or we will come and take it by force. Actually our forces are in route right now, as we were planning to retake it from the hands of the rebels and our reconnaissance force found a Seljuk flag up on the city walls.
Seljuks: Indeed, Seljuk forces have captured Isparta. We judged the settlement to be better off in Seljuk hands than lead by rebels. It is regrettable that our message to the Emperor regarding this was lost en-route to Constantinople. We also reject the earlier Roman claim to the settlement, and regret that our former ambassador accepted it. Isparta is Seljuk, and will remain so.
Romans: So be it.
The Saracen would stop reading.
As it is, The Romans have provoked and angered the Turks enough, and also told them that they will be attacking them. So that created the reason for the Turks to invade. Due to the Turks would not stand and wait for the Romans to invade. This could have been avoided if the Romans took this an easier province such as asking them for a low fee.
But things can not be turned back. The Romans chose to threaten the Seljuk Empire, and now look what they have to pay, With the greatest city in that area... May this be a reminder how bad diplomacy punishes. To make it worst, He made threats that he could not back up. If he was smart, he would stop now. I won't lie, I am for pushing the Romans out. Though, I have done nothing yet, besides peacefully bought Nicosia. And yet we still continue our plans of payments, but we have also decided to add Rhodes to this, We hope this is ok, If not, I guess we will just have to cancel our payments to the Romans. Yeah?
The Lemongate
10-11-2009, 02:00
Upon hearing about the island of Rhodes, the Archbishop, makes a step forward.
Actually noble emissary of the Caliph, the King had already entertained a proposition to the Greeks about the Island of Rhodes. This propostion was done in private and as we have yet heard from the Greek King, no word about it has yet been made public. We were hoping to establish an outpost in the eatern Mediterranean to establish trade with the great cities of Alexandria and Constantinople.
We hope this does not inconvenience you, though you are free to surpass our proposition to the Greeks if they would rather trade the island to you.
The Saracen would think, but then would speek up.
To tell you a very strange story, Our diplomats were on the way to Germany, and we discovered a very... very odd sighting. The Rhodes Island was not occupied by any forces... It was seemed that the Romans abandoned the Island, The Reason of this was unknown, perhaps it was to drag that Kingdom of the Franks into a war with the Turks when they took the Island, We moved a small occupying force into the and restore order back into the people. For this, we just blame the Romans for leaving the people at the mercy of their enemies, though. The Turks would never harm the innocent people of these conquered empire. but we shake our heads to this meathod... It is horrible.
Though, To one of the most respected men of the west, the Archbishop the franks. We will happily try to plan something out, though, The Rules of having tade outposts in the Al-Qud's Influencial grounds is quite clear.
1. The tops of military garrison would be 1 general, and 2 units to police and keep the people under control. No more.
2. For having a trade outpost in our influence, You must sign an alliance pact, open trade rights.
3. You must allow forces of Al-Quds to rightfully protect the lands from any aggressors, As in, If the Island is attacked by any forces. or obtained in a way where the Kingdom of Franks can not tell us how, We will automaticly take it as it was invaded, and we will get it back.
4. Last but not least, We would sell all of this for a very very low price, Also please be noted that more demands/requests may be made for interest for both of us.
But that is it, If you are truely interest, we would be honored to have a Frankish Trade Outpost near our lands. So Please notify us through here, or in private. What ever you prefer.
Cultured Drizzt fan
10-11-2009, 03:48
Ahhhhhh, so much going on, and yet so little for my nation to meddle in. As England has little stake in any of the actions going on in the east I have nothing official from my King to speak of.
John hesitates for a moment
however, personally I would prefer to see the Roman empire restored to its homeland.
Constantinople has been a bastion for centuries, and for all of that time it has kept the Roman empire a hub of the Mediterranean. Without its light I feel as if the area may fall into darkness, and Heathens
He sneers
may take a land that has been a border between Christianity and Islam for a VERY long time.
He puts up his hands
however that is simply my opinion, and I am surely not that man who determines where my nations Florins go, or where its armies march.
he coughs appearing to feel awkward at the situation
In other news, England's Lazy, good for nothing, son of a ..... A page steps on Johns foot, causing him to yelp ahh yes, ummmmm England's Diplomat is still en-route to Rome, having just arrived at Genoa.
Nightbringer
10-11-2009, 08:24
You see Saracen, your words do not fool the ears of everyone hear. And now from your very own mouth we have heard of an act of completely unprovoked aggression by yourself against the romans. We bear no grudge against your people or the Turks, we only demand justice be payed by returning the city of Constantinople to its rightful owners. Indeed, this would be the most peaceful solution by far. Foreign occupation of Constantinople is unlikely to be met peaceably by the Romans and will only stir up further conflict in the region. Not only this, the Venicians are one of the least neutral choices that could be made, as they seem to practically be pawns of yours. If Constantinople is returned to the Romans we can prevent a war that will result in many deaths and much sorrow for all. My people do not wish to fight you nor the Turks who have proved good partners in trade, we simply wish to see a settlement reached that will bring peace, and this is clearly the return of Constantinople to the Romans with an agreement of peace. We thank our noble allies the Hungarians for their words as well as all others who support us.
WHAT!!??
So another Muslem bastard steps in and steal our lands... Truely you treacherous villains cannot be trusted. And saying that the Castle was empty is a lie for we had forces in this castle... Your time will come, Muslem... your time will come, and when it does... we will take pleasure in seeing you sink in the bottom pit of hell!
OOC: I truely believe I left units in Rhodes as I just had a mission to reinforce it, I had units being built there, in addition to the minimum of 2 units I should have left there. So you, Merlox saying there were no units... you are very dishonest and it annoys me very much...
The Saracen would be surprised at the romans.
Now now little small and weak nations of the west. I do not seek a war, due to it would be your last, The Romans can stir lots of threats, and say lots of lies, but it doesn't stop the fact that it had no forces on the Rhodes... Any ways... Why would we take rhodes in military conquest if we were just to sell it to the Kingdom of the Franks, The very same nation who also proposed that the Venicians would hold that city...
One of the messengers come to the diplomat.
Oh... Wait... Forces... Does the Roman Empire call 5 civilians armed with kitchen knives a "Force..."? No wonder why Constantinople fell as well... Being defended by their grand "Force"... The Caliph clearly sees a difference between a gang of a few men with knives, compared to a well equipped group of soldiers... Pathetic, And yet, Not important any more, The Island is already sold. So it is not mine to give back Romans.
The Saracen would snicker alittle...
The Grand Roman Army... Peasants...
barcamartin
10-11-2009, 11:53
Peace can be reached with the Romans, if they cede us their remaining holdings in Anatolia. It has been said before, and now it has been said again.
Anatolia rightfully belongs to the followers of Islam, as such it cannot be left in Roman hands. Also, the Aegean forms a natural border between our nations. We will not rest until that border is in place. Only then can a lasting peace be reached.
I thought the matter of Konstantiniyye had been solved. You Christians sure talk alot of your noble 'community', but show little of it.
Rus of Kiev and our brethren Magyar, we wish no struggle with you and will not seek it. However, we won't hand over Konstantiniyye freely, to our Roman enemies. Let them try to take it by force, or appraoch us to negotiate about it's fate. Actions speak louder than words, gentlemen, and the Sultan's armies aswell as his diplomtaic staff stand ready to recieve you, in whatever way you come.
Why would we simply vacate the city? You come with demands, but have little to offer. As such, we cannot take your words too seriously. We don't fear you, Magyar, nor do we love you. We just wish to remain on friendly terms with you, but should you militarily side with the Romans it will be met with outmost determination.
Nightbringer
10-11-2009, 19:44
Ah, finally words of reason. While it may be the just thing given what I can see about the war it is of course just that the Sultan would not wish to simply give up his prize without compensation. The exact details of which should be worked out between himself and the roman emperor, although the ceding of Anatolian provinces in exchange of Constantinople seems a reasonable offer and would draw a natural border between them, lessening the chances of continued conflict.
Doors open with a long and loud whining. The messenger that comes in the room looks really scared as everyone in the room now stares at him because of his interruption. Quietly he reaches for the romans's servant and hands him over yet another scroll which is read and in turn whispered in the diplomat's ear. Angelus says as he rises from his chair:
I cannot say that I am pleased by this news but The Basileos, seems ready to negociate peace, and it is my duty to carry out whatever he wishes.
Turk, you say you want the romans out of Anatolia. As you already have captured Nicea, then I believe you then would want us out of Smyrna and Dardanellia right? If it is to buy peace, we could sell them to you. Would 3000 florin each be reasonable for you? You must understand that giving away two such region without nothing in return would be folly for anyone sane enough to think.
So what do you say Turk? Anatolia will be yours and the hostility will cease.
The saracen would sigh.
As the leader clearly misses the main topic, Constantinople... what happens to that???
Well of course, I would like to have it back, but it seems the French King has decided otherwise...
Nightbringer
10-12-2009, 07:11
wait, are the Romans simple accepting this ludicrous proposal of the French King to hand Constantinople to the Venitians? This cannot be, surely you would not let them befoul the capitol of the Orthodox faith. If the Byzantines will not take responsibility for its loss then we must. I must declare that if the Romans are willing to simply give up the city that Kiev would like to purchase it from the Turks. You know that we are no enemies of yours and it is our sole wish to see peace restored in the region while continuing the strength of the Orthodox faith. We can assure you that this is in no way an attempt to gain ground for conflict with the Turks, we simply wish to keep Constantinople in Orthodox hands. We of course understand that it is quite a city and that it has cost you to capture, but we ask you to name your price. I'm sure you will find this more beneficial to yourself then simply handing it over to the Venetians as well.
To the Saracens, we hope you know we bear you no ill will, we simply cannot agree with you on this manner. However, if it comes that we purchase the safety of Constantinople we hope it may be a place we can use to gain positive trade relations with your people. We have no interest in controlling places in your area of interest, we have only claims in the North and Northeast.
The Saracen would only snicker at the Kievans.
You sir, have just chose to try to buy the most expensive thing on this world has to offer... It might be even worth more than all of your nations worth...
phonicsmonkey
10-12-2009, 09:02
The big Magyar Joszef glowers at the Saracen once more.
And you sir, are not in possession of it.
So perhaps it would be more constructive were you to hold your tongue and allow those who are to negotiate without your weasel words provoking more hostility.
The Saracen would only mock.
Sir, Why don't you just accept reality. As I do not know of the Turks purchase deal or not of the Rest of the territories, but one thing is for sure The Kingdom of the Franks have given out the demands, The Seljuks have finished the demands, and the Venecians have accepted the final deal, The Major powers wish to have the Venecian Merchan Empire to hold Constantinople. We will defend the decision. and will convince the major players of this to reject.
Asinus Asini
10-12-2009, 22:26
I agree with the Kievan Rus. The Saracens have outlived their welcome in this christian court by mocking most Christian nations and soldiers. If a trade does not pertain to them directly, failing to hold their tongue, they should at least show the minimal amount of courtesy that a guest should bear among nobles of foreign powers to them. In these lands, infidels get their head on a pikes for not even a tenth of what the egyptian ambassador said, regardless of their wealth or social status.
The Kaiser has nothing against the Fatimid empire except that they have just invaded the Byzantines and that they should not persist in this war; however the Egyptian ambassador seems not to be the best of their diplomats.
Had this been rped well, the egyptian ambassador would already had been thrown out or have his head cut
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