Daggers in the Night [Concluded]

[Kagemusha]

Ah good, so you admit you are quite possibly scum. So what's all this?



Who has been arguing that? No one.



Why should I ponder such things? Why so indignant about being a suspect, Kagemusha? Did you get a special role? :cry:



You're inventing fictional reasons why people are accusing you, and arguing against those. This is called a straw man.

Yeah, there's something wrong with that.



Self-conscious, are we?



Ah, let's top it off with a red herring! Why do I even enter into your defense? How do my actions make you more or less guilty? Since they don't, why are you talking about it?

You're way too defensive Kage. You're acting way too surprised that you'd be suspected in a game of recruitment with your abilities and experience, as if it is somehow offensive an idea. Maybe I'm wrong, and odds are I am. But it's not a radical idea that you could be guilty, and you're acting like it is. You're almost taking it like a personal insult, which is also absurd. Seriously though, you've contributed a lot of funny and entertaining posts, but that makes you no more guilty or innocent than anyone else. Then when you get accused, you act like a wounded puppy. But contributing humor is also a form of defense, like flattery or pity. And an effective defense, too.

You could be guilty, and in a mafia game that is reason enough to lynch you. Process of elimination; you die, and we move on to someone else if we are wrong. Take the bitter medicine and swallow it!

So because you take the process of elimination of yourself into your own hands it gives you the mandate to apply it to others? Maybe we all should tout in all our posts, please lynch me! You see the problem in your thinking there? We both know that in traditional games like this one.We are all aiming at the dark for most of the game. I just find it somewhat amusing that you have taken your aim at me, no matter what ever happens in the game. Im afraid you have lost your focus in your paranoia. With your logic im damned if i do and im damned if i dont. It would be stupid for me to not defend myself, just because you say i shouldnt, while others ask for me to defend myself. So in the end you are just trying to rationalize your paranoia with lot of supporting theories you create inside your own head. I think you should apply some critical thinking to your own reasoning.

[The Stranger]

Who are your top 3 suspects, TS?

hmm

beskar and tincow and pevergreen (even if he is not guilty, he has to die)

i think renata is suscpicious too.

other than that i believe beefy and diana to be innocent

[Askthepizzaguy]

So because you take the process of elimination of yourself into your own hands it gives you the mandate to apply it to others?

I don't follow this, it makes no sense whatsoever.


Maybe we all should tout in all our posts, please lynch me! You see the problem in your thinking there?

This has zero to do with the topic at hand. What are you talking about???


We both know that in traditional games like this one.We are all aiming at the dark for most of the game. I just find it somewhat amusing that you have taken your aim at me, no matter what ever happens in the game.

You don't seem to find it that amusing.


Im afraid you have lost your focus in your paranoia.

I'm not paranoid, you're a legitimate suspect. There's no emotion involved whatsoever here. I would be paranoid if say you were my mason partner and I kept suspecting you for no reason. THAT is paranoia.

Considering you a suspect here when you are one isn't paranoia, Kage. You dishonor me with such nonsense.


With your logic im damned if i do and im damned if i dont. It would be stupid for me to not defend myself, just because you say i shouldnt, while others ask for me to defend myself.

You're using emotion and fallacy-based defenses, and I think that's lame. You're better than that.


So in the end you are just trying to rationalize your paranoia with lot of supporting theories you create inside your own head. I think you should apply some critical thinking to your own reasoning.

I'm putting due pressure on a suspect. What have you been doing? I think you should drop the wounded puppy act and quit focusing on me when you're the only one between the two of us who could even be guilty.



Frankly, if this is the best you've got, you need to be lynched.

[The Stranger]

vote: TinCow

He's been my top suspect for most of the game. I was hoping that backing off for a few days might give the mafia incentive to remove someone as dangerous as him (if they could), but they haven't done so, and there seems little reason to hold back anymore.

Kagemusha is second.

still protecting beskar eh...

i think it is becoming time to use the vig kill.

i think everyone should vote which 2 persons they want to see vigkilled. this may tell us alot about who is mafia too. anyone who doesnt vote... is suspicious.

Vigkill: Renata
Vigkill:Kagemusha

i believe them to be scummy but im not entirely sure about their intentions, they might be genuine townies, but i dont want to take the risk.

[Askthepizzaguy]

still protecting beskar eh...

This has been bugging me for a while.

Why is Beskar the sole focus of your attention, why do you assume he must be guilty, why does everyone who doesn't vote for him automatically mean they are guilty?

Suspecting someone is one thing, but I don't understand why you seem to take it for granted that Beskar's guilt is not only a fact, but it colors everyone else as guilty or innocent. Maybe you're right, but I don't see what your case is. Enlighten me.

[Beefy187]

If I don't i'll regret it

Vote: Beskar

[TinCow]

Re: Beskar, didn't someone at some point say that he had claimed to be the special role? Did we get any more information on that?

[The Stranger]

This has been bugging me for a while.

Why is Beskar the sole focus of your attention, why do you assume he must be guilty, why does everyone who doesn't vote for him automatically mean they are guilty?

Suspecting someone is one thing, but I don't understand why you seem to take it for granted that Beskar's guilt is not only a fact, but it colors everyone else as guilty or innocent. Maybe you're right, but I don't see what your case is. Enlighten me.

not everyone, just renata. because she has been protecting him since the first time i casted doubt on his allegiance to the town.

[Diamondeye]

still protecting beskar eh...

i think it is becoming time to use the vig kill.

i think everyone should vote which 2 persons they want to see vigkilled. this may tell us alot about who is mafia too. anyone who doesnt vote... is suspicious.

Vigkill: Renata
Vigkill:Kagemusha

i believe them to be scummy but im not entirely sure about their intentions, they might be genuine townies, but i dont want to take the risk.

Of these two, I'd say Kagemusha. Renata does not strike me as especially scummy. Other top suspects would be Scienter (of her and TC, that's my pick at least) and Methos.

I'd like to hear more from Beskar and TheFlax in response to the votes/cases against them as well, I'm on the fence when it comes to them.

I think we should be wary about where voting is headed today, I am not at all convinced by either the Beskar case or the TinCow one, and I'll keep my vote on Methos (vote:Methos in case it isn't already there) for now and would like people to put pressure on him. Also, I think we should be wary about letting Diana use our vigilante kills; we might need them later, and on the off-chance that she is mafia (not likely, I agree!), she will have a valid reason (town approval) to vigilante kill an innocent. If we want to democratize (is that a word?) the Naibs kills, we should decide them with a majority so that the Naib personally has no influence on who is targetted.

[Kagemusha]

I don't follow this, it makes no sense whatsoever.



This has zero to do with the topic at hand. What are you talking about???



You don't seem to find it that amusing.



I'm not paranoid, you're a legitimate suspect. There's no emotion involved whatsoever here. I would be paranoid if say you were my mason partner and I kept suspecting you for no reason. THAT is paranoia.

Considering you a suspect here when you are one isn't paranoia, Kage. You dishonor me with such nonsense.



You're using emotion and fallacy-based defenses, and I think that's lame. You're better than that.



I'm putting due pressure on a suspect. What have you been doing? I think you should drop the wounded puppy act and quit focusing on me when you're the only one between the two of us who could even be guilty.



Frankly, if this is the best you've got, you need to be lynched.

This is getting hilarious Pizza. To put it short. I am not guilty and no i dont think your idea that i should lay down and die, just because you want me to do so is a good one. Your entire case against me is just a huge wifom and trying to defend your case with argument that i should agree with your logic, just because it happends to be your logic, is not logic to me at all. From experience you should know that keeping me alive to the end of the part of the game has payed off handsomly for the town quite the few times and if it is up to me. I will do my best to do so. It isnt the first time dead players have been howling for my death and i have been able to stay alive, with sometimes saving the entire town in the process.

So lets just drop the fight with words and take a look at my behaviour through out the game and point to me something honestly that says scummy. If you can provide something, maybe i will take on your offer and vote myself to death just to please you. Hopefully by looking at the game objectively, you can come to an conclusion that indeed i wouldnt play my game like this if i were mafia. Currently all you are doing is repeating yourself, with your idea that i could be capable doing a wifom which you are accusing of me. While you should focus on the fact, would there be any sense doing so.

[KukriKhan]

vote: Methos as a pressure vote. I agree with Diamondeye: we don't know much or hearmch from Mister Methos. Regarding the Naibs and their night actions: I think we've left that to them to decide (whilst discussing the possibilities in private), so far. I'm all for Democratization wherever possible, but at this stage of endGame, it may be unwise to change procedure.

[TheFlax]

TheFlax.

He was 4th on the atheotes wagon last round, and may have been trying to save Split.

Yeah, I tied up the vote between atheotes and split. It was 4 both ways with my vote. I basically followed Renata's case, didn't care about split in the least. If he shows up to avoid the WOG today, like many I will most likely vote for him next.


Plus he made suspicious posts during the bandwagon:

Post 1080, after I asked why Methos was not voting:

Explain this reaction to me. TheFlax tried, but I still don't get it. Why would he ask me this? I am a dead townie. Is he annoyed by me picking on Split?

Sasaki has been writing these one liners the whole game and TheFlax never said anything. Why me? Why this time?

I don't expect Sasaki to explain his prods, but I thought you actually had something to offer. Scienter's post in that round felt a bit scummy, so I was wondering why you felt Methos was scummy. How many times we are going to have through this?


Post 1086, after Sasaki asked him why he posted the above ^ (1080) post.

Again he wrote: "Its not because Romanic is dead that he's suddenly infallible.". Now he really looks annoyed by me. He's attacking my credibility, for no reason! Why would he do that? That's a mafia slip right there.

Attacking your credibility? :laugh4: I said that I was very far from infallible one or two round before that. Yeah, I was totally attacking my own credibility there. I mean, unless you are infallible? Basicaly, I was just stating that since you don't necessarily know more than any of us even if you are dead and proven innocent, then I don't see how it is invalid to question what you say.


Another gem, Post 759, after I talked about split making a list from my post count spreadsheet:

He was protecting Split..

You've done reasonably well until now not to pick anything I said out of context. So why did you add this bit? Are you that desperate? Split at that time had put me on a list of people who were suspect because they we hadn't posted during a night phase. You patted yourself on the back, saying that him taking that list and accusing people had started a discussion. To which I replied the phrase you used to incriminate me, saying that Split was very inactive in your spreadsheet, implying that him accusing people of being inactive was not very good. I then finished by saying he was more active that round, which was genuinely good, unfortunately he dropped again from sight not long after. Oh yeah, it was night phase during that talk, I was protecting him from what again?


On Day4, TheFlax is the only one voting for Split. Post 716:

When Flax makes this vote, two bandwagons are already running Seon/The Stranger, both with around 7 votes already. Great timing to place a vote on your partner, don't you think ?

What? I didn't like Seon or The Stranger as a candidate, so I decided to try to nudge back split into action. Maybe if I ever brought up that vote in defense of me being a partner to Split it would be scummy, as it is, it doesn't have a bearing on anything.


There's other stuff like him talking a lot with Renata, sharing suspicions and possibly probing at her for information.

@Diana: I am curious, is TheFlax talking with you now that you are Naib?

No, I don't have Diana as an IM contact. I talk mostly with Renata and ATP about this game.

In conclusion, I have to say you have a major flaw in your case. (Besides the ones I mentioned earlier in my defense.) You assume Split is mafia and then try to prove that I am by asssociation with him. I agree that Split looks pretty suspicious, but its not a given that he's mafia or not. Until he is proven guilty, many of your accusation seem unfounded to me. (No, no, I'm not attacking your credibility here.)

[Splitpersonality]

I still like Split as mafia. Why? Because it fits right in some scenarios.

Scenario 1: He was away and couldn't send his orders in time. That's why we had only one kill.

Scenario 2: Lots of pressure on him last turn but he was saved by the atheotes bandwagon. Mafia is killing one to make it look like atheotes was mafia and remove the pressure on split.


You give me too much credit, I'm just a boy away for a prom/after-prom weekend with some friends :laugh4:



I understand that we cannot vote Split yet, because he is coming into WOG range, but somehow I have a feeling he will show up to evade it again.


and I suppose here I am, right on cue, funny no?


However I do have an alternative for you.

TheFlax.

Okay, that seems like a more logical suspect than myself.

Vote: TheFlax



He was 4th on the atheotes wagon last round, and may have been trying to save Split. Plus he made suspicious posts during the bandwagon:


What about other bandwaggoners as well?


There was a bandwaggon against me?


My advice: TheFlax is mafia, lynch him now.


K.



EDIT:

If you guys didn't get any message from the host, I went away from Friday until today (Tuesday technically, but I didn't post here), I sent the hosts a PM and any other hosts in this thread can confirm that if need be, I wasn't just lurking it was my prom :P


Secdonly, I"m not showing up to avoid a WoG, I"m returning to a game.

[TheFlax]

Okay, that seems like a more logical suspect than myself.

Vote: TheFlax

It would seem just about anyone is a more logical suspect in your mind then. Didn't you read the case against me? Most of it is contigent ou you being mafia. :wink:

[Kagemusha]

Tally:

Kagemusha 4 (Tincow,TheFlax,Beskar, Scienter)
Methos 2 (Diamondeye, Kukrikhan)
Beskar 4 (The Stranger, Kagemusha, Choxorn, Beefy187)
TinCow 1 (Renata)
TheFlax 1 ( spL1tp3r50naL1ty)

[Renata]

Oh good god I can't believe you showed up again, split. Somebody shoot me.

Edit: my general feeling about vig kills -- remove distractions, if necessary, and people who are not leaving a sufficient record with their actions for votes on them to elicit much information. Kage perhaps, though now he's defending himself a lynch may be preferable; certainly split or Methos would be solid options at this point. Double A, if he doesn't follow through on his promise to participate and doesn't get wogged either; Jolt, if he doesn't return to activity.

I think it's still too early, though.

[The Stranger]

ok. split is definitly on the suspicious list.

unvote: vote Splitpersonality

everyone plz vote Split.Renata, change your vote plz.

[Renata]

unvote, vote: Kagemusha

That should set TheStranger hopping. But I think his responses are making him seem more scummy. "I'm so amused by all this", really? "Name one scummy thing I've done" when you've voted only once in six days? Come on, Kage.

[TinCow]

If you guys didn't get any message from the host, I went away from Friday until today (Tuesday technically, but I didn't post here), I sent the hosts a PM and any other hosts in this thread can confirm that if need be, I wasn't just lurking it was my prom :P

Please name these people, confirmation from them would be nice.

[Kagemusha]

unvote, vote: Kagemusha

That should set TheStranger hopping. But I think his responses are making him seem more scummy. "I'm so amused by all this", really? "Name one scummy thing I've done" when you've voted only once in six days? Come on, Kage.

I am amused by the fixation ATPG has on me. Is being amused soomehow offending you Renata? I know this is sooo serious business to begin with,right? I have been playing role, having fun and trying to create fun. It wouldnt have been right for the "press" to try and control the vote, plus can you show some great evidence against anyone during the early rounds? So if i didnt guess vote during the early rounds while playing character is your case, it is not really the strongest one.

[TheFlax]

Because of my defense post, I didn't get a chance to say this earlier: I think Kagemusha's makes him look scummier. I know ATPG and I tend to agree with him on most of his points. At first I almost wanted to change my vote because of his plea, before realising that my emotions were being manipulated here. He has no reason to feel bad and how can a "bandwaggon" (4 votes isn't much of a bandwaggon IMO) be particularly unfair? I thought a lot of them were pretty unfair on early game players, yet that's a necessary evil. Anyways, one point I wanted to address was Kagemusha's claim that he was a crucial townie towards the end of the game, and that this has been proven in the past. Yet, not very long ago, he was bandwagonned in Shadow Fort and claimed loud and hard how it was a bad lynch and how wrong town was. Turns out he was a baddy. Now, I'm not saying it means he's mafia in this game, but most of his defense seems to come either from emotional pleas (unfair, i've been busy working very hard, etc..) and previous game experience (I'm a great endgame townie). It doesn't convince me very much.

Basicaly, this post was meant to just say I was keeping my vote on Kagemusha, but I got a bit carried away.

I hope it makes a bit sense, it did in my head at least. :clown:

[TheFlax]

Please name these people, confirmation from them would be nice.

Now that Split mentions it, I got a PM from him stating he'd be away for the weekend, I totally forgot. :embarassed:

For purpose of clarification, I got the PM because he's a player in my upcoming game "All Those Pretty Stars" .

Here's the PM:


Hello,


I'm contacting you all because you are all of the hosts for games that I am currently involved in (CFC, .org, and TWC), or will be starting soon.


Tonight, Saturday May 22nd, is the night of my prom, and the following Sunday through Tuesday I shall be away on a trip with my senior class, a sort of after prom thing.


While I am there I will be unable to access a computer or the internet at all, my phone bill has also not been payed so it will be unlikely that I can use that to stay active.


This is just me letting you guys know that this is happening, and for you to make any adjustments to the status of my character as necessary. If you deem it necessary to replace me, or worse WoG me, feel free to, though I must say I prefer the former.


I am sorry for the inconvenience, and I hope the games continue well without me. :bow:


-Split

Andres, ATPG, autolycus and Beefy also received it.

[pevergreen]

Vote: Methos

[Kagemusha]

Because of my defense post, I didn't get a chance to say this earlier: I think Kagemusha's makes him look scummier. I know ATPG and I tend to agree with him on most of his points. At first I almost wanted to change my vote because of his plea, before realising that my emotions were being manipulated here. He has no reason to feel bad and how can a "bandwaggon" (4 votes isn't much of a bandwaggon IMO) be particularly unfair? I thought a lot of them were pretty unfair on early game players, yet that's a necessary evil. Anyways, one point I wanted to address was Kagemusha's claim that he was a crucial townie towards the end of the game, and that this has been proven in the past. Yet, not very long ago, he was bandwagonned in Shadow Fort and claimed loud and hard how it was a bad lynch and how wrong town was. Turns out he was a baddy. Now, I'm not saying it means he's mafia in this game, but most of his defense seems to come either from emotional pleas (unfair, i've been busy working very hard, etc..) and previous game experience (I'm a great endgame townie). It doesn't convince me very much.

Basicaly, this post was meant to just say I was keeping my vote on Kagemusha, but I got a bit carried away.

I hope it makes a bit sense, it did in my head at least. :clown:

Well as it seems clear that ATPG has already talked you people over to his side of opinion in MSN messenger or what ever instant messenger you use.It is clear i just need to submit to his "superior" reasoning. All i am saying that you are making a big mistake.Unvote, Vote:Kagemusha

[Kagemusha]

Another edited post. Unvote and Vote:Kagemusha

[Renata]

I am amused by the fixation ATPG has on me. Is being amused soomehow offending you Renata? I know this is sooo serious business to begin with,right? I have been playing role, having fun and trying to create fun. It wouldnt have been right for the "press" to try and control the vote, plus can you show some great evidence against anyone during the early rounds? So if i didnt guess vote during the early rounds while playing character is your case, it is not really the strongest one.

This is still mafia, Kagemusha. You could have kept your votes in separate posts; it's not rocket science. People who don't vote get lynched eventually; it's that simple. It always has been that simple. There's nothing to be amused about when someone calls you on it and asks for your head; it's just the way the game works. If you are a townie, and you get lynched for that behavior, it's your own fault. The rest of us have nothing to go on as regards you. Nothing to convince us you're helping us win. What the heck else are we supposed to do? We have to lynch you at some point, there's no other option.

Sorry if that's not amusing enough for you.

(As an aside, though, "I'm so amused by all of this" as part of a defense runs about 75% mafia, in my experience.)

[Kagemusha]

This is still mafia, Kagemusha. You could have kept your votes in separate posts; it's not rocket science. People who don't vote get lynched eventually; it's that simple. It always has been that simple. There's nothing to be amused about when someone calls you on it and asks for your head; it's just the way the game works. If you are a townie, and you get lynched for that behavior, it's your own fault. The rest of us have nothing to go on as regards you. Nothing to convince us you're helping us win. What the heck else are we supposed to do? We have to lynch you at some point, there's no other option.

Sorry if that's not amusing enough for you.

(As an aside, though, "I'm so amused by all of this" as part of a defense runs about 75% mafia, in my experience.)

Well the minor problem with your reasoning is that ATPG is not calling me out for not voting, but because he came up with brilliant idea that i would be a suicidal mafioso that would create a "brilliant " plan to focus the attention to himself completely with the "saharan news" and some of you are bying it, just because it is coming from ATPG. I already witnessed in Shadow fort that ATPG is capable to manilpulate many of you into anything he comes up with. So you become dependant on him whether he is right or not.So excuse me for finding it amusing.

[The Stranger]

...seriously... from now on, everything renata does i will sabotage, simply because she does it. eye for an eye, my foot in your face. or sum like that.

[TheFlax]

Well as it seems clear that ATPG has already talked you people over to his side of opinion in MSN messenger or what ever instant messenger you use.It is clear i just need to submit to his "superior" reasoning. All i am saying that you are making a big mistake.Unvote, Vote:Kagemusha

In my case he didn't, I was actually moot on the whole voting for you thing, but several people told me in private it would be a good idea. So I voted and waited for your defense, which has just convinced to keep my vote on you. Sorry.

[Renata]

Well the minor problem with your reasoning is that ATPG is not calling me out for not voting, but because he came up with brilliant idea that i would be a suicidal mafioso that would create a "brilliant " plan to focus the attention to himself completely with the "saharan news" and some of you are bying it, just because it is coming from ATPG. I already witnessed in Shadow fort that ATPG is capable to manilpulate many of you into anything he comes up with. So you become dependant on him whether he is right or not.So excuse me for finding it amusing.

I'm not relying on his reasoning at all. The Saharan News in itself was not suicidal, but neither does it make you innocent.

[Renata]

...seriously... from now on, everything renata does i will sabotage, simply because she does it. eye for an eye, my foot in your face. or sum like that.

Seriously, Why? That's just uncalled for. Not happy.

[Kagemusha]

In my case he didn't, I was actually moot on the whole voting for you thing, but several people told me in private it would be a good idea. So I voted and waited for your defense, which has just convinced to keep my vote on you. Sorry.

Several people in your MSN ring right? In matter of fact with second thought. Unvote and Vote: Beskar. Ever since i came back to mafia games some of people playing have tried to make me somekind of default lynch candidate. I will not submit to this line of thought. If this would be my last game as mafia i will not submit but rather go out fighting.To Renata.You and Secura have tried to get me lynched in any game i have played reacently.So i wont put much thought on your reasoning as it seems you have biased opinion about me to begin with. Nothing i could say would change your opinon as you can twist it around how you like it. Your line of thought is that only thing that could make me innocent is my death. Have it occurred to you that it applies to everyone in this game?

[TheFlax]

Several people in your MSN ring right?

That's true, initially I would not have voted for you if not for several people with whom I've talked about the game. That's why I felt it necessary to post after you had defended to explain why I was keeping my vote on you, no one told me to do that and most likely I would have voted for you after that if I hadn't previously done so.

[Romanic]

Split is back (of course), and suddenly TheFlax finds an email of him saying he will be inactive for 3 days or so, allegedly for a game that hasn't started yet.

Lynch Spit now. That's enough!

[TinCow]

Split is back (of course), and suddenly TheFlax finds an email of him saying he will be inactive for 3 days or so, allegedly for a game that hasn't started yet.

Lynch Spit now. That's enough!

Unless Beefy or ATPG say they didn't receive the PM as was claimed, I don't see how this makes either split or TheFlax scummy.

[Renata]

Several people in your MSN ring right? In matter of fact with second thought. Unvote and Vote: Beskar. Ever since i came back to mafia games some of people playing have tried to make me somekind of default lynch candidate. I will not submit to this line of thought. If this would be my last game as mafia i will not submit but rather go out fighting.To Renata.You and Secura have tried to get me lynched in any game i have played reacently.So i wont put much thought on your reasoning as it seems you have biased opinion about me to begin with. Nothing i could say would change your opinon as you can twist it around how you like it. Your line of thought is that only thing that could make me innocent is my death. Have it occurred to you that it applies to everyone in this game?

What? That's complete BS, Kagemusha, and you know it. I can't even remember if I voted for you in Shadow Fort, but I certainly didn't push your lynch (more fool, me), and I never asked for you to be lynched in RotS either. That is the entirety of our experience together. In this game, I commented early on, in appreciation of your Saharan News efforts, that anyone who voted you before day six would lose at life.

Whatever. I hope you're mafia, because this sucks.

Back in a few hours.

[Renata]

Split is back (of course), and suddenly TheFlax finds an email of him saying he will be inactive for 3 days or so, allegedly for a game that hasn't started yet.

Lynch Spit now. That's enough!

Split should be vigged, not lynched, IMO. His behavior makes any votes for him next to meaningless; that's not true of most other players.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kagemusha is a superior player and he's also withstood my accusations before, in games like Mafia IX. His overreaction here is totally OOC. It's overblown and he's taking things way too personal.

@Kage-
I honestly hope you are mafia because you're pulling a freak out the likes of which I haven't seen since, oh, White_Eyes. And he's gotten better...

[Kagemusha]

What? That's complete BS, Kagemusha, and you know it. I can't even remember if I voted for you in Shadow Fort, but I certainly didn't push your lynch (more fool, me), and I never asked for you to be lynched in RotS either. That is the entirety of our experience together. In this game, I commented early on, in appreciation of your Saharan News efforts, that anyone who voted you before day six would lose at life.

Whatever. I hope you're mafia, because this sucks.

Back in a few hours.

You do remember GH´s mafia?But i apologise i was out of line. Because the grazy hours and shift changes in work. I have become quite grumpy lately and i think my comment was uncalled for.Same goes with the comment about Secura Maybe its just better for me to take my leave from any hectic game activity once this one is over, atleast untill my real life stress eases up a bit. I apologise for acting like a jerk.

[Romanic]

Unless Beefy or ATPG say they didn't receive the PM as was claimed, I don't see how this makes either split or TheFlax scummy.

This one element does not make either scummy, I agree, but it's hardly believable with everything else we've seen. TheFlax is protecting Split again.

[atheotes]

Unless Beefy or ATPG say they didn't receive the PM as was claimed, I don't see how this makes either split or TheFlax scummy.

I think it makes Flax look scummy because he could have gotten Split lynched inspite of knowing he was away :thinking:

[Askthepizzaguy]

This is getting hilarious Pizza.

Okay then. I am glad I amuse you.


To put it short. I am not guilty and no i dont think your idea that i should lay down and die, just because you want me to do so is a good one.

Never asked you to... just asked you to stop acting like I am... insulting your mother, or something, when all I've done is play the game and do my job which is accuse suspects. How have I wronged you, man? This is a mafia game, you should really be able to deal with this. It's part of the game. I'm not personally attacking you, so please, get over it. Defend yourself without inventing straw man arguments and pretending like you're personally insulted. You can do that, I know you can.


Your entire case against me is just a huge wifom and trying to defend your case with argument that i should agree with your logic, just because it happends to be your logic, is not logic to me at all.

See, Kagemusha, you know this is total garbage. I never said either that you had to agree with me, or that my case was based in logic or evidence. You know what my case on you is based on?

Three things:

1. You're one of the remaining suspects. By that fact alone I have the right to accuse you all day long. So already, you've no right to be offended.
2. Your reactions are totally off-the-wall and make zero sense. You act like you've got something to hide or something big to lose if you die. And that's because you are freaking out over standard mafia procedure, which is when someone accuses you based on nothing... then you flip out?
3. You're playing the humor/emotion/pity/WIFOM game. You made funny posts, which historically have the positive effect of making people want to leave you alive because they like your humor. It's the whole reason I let up on you for a while. Secondly, you're reacting emotionally, which tugs at the heartstrings. I loves ya, Kagemusha, but I still gots to accuse you. You're acting like I'm some grand inquisitor and I'm ruining the entire game by being way off base about you, and trying to act sympathetic. Notice how you're focusing only on me when you're defending yourself, even though you show up on the list of a half-dozen other player's suspects? Are they all my mind-puppets, Kagemusha, or is it an independent phenomenon that you might be scummy to them? Then voting yourself, which is not exactly classic Kagemusha. What in heck was that all about, only to retract it later?

And all that amounts to jack squat whether you're guilty or not. It doesn't mean you are. No one is psychic enough to know when you're guilty. But when you're twisting my words around and playing the wounded puppy game, and reacting completely out of character for yourself, it raises eyebrows.


From experience you should know that keeping me alive to the end of the part of the game has payed off handsomly for the town quite the few times and if it is up to me. I will do my best to do so. It isnt the first time dead players have been howling for my death and i have been able to stay alive, with sometimes saving the entire town in the process.

No, Kage... I haven't seen your best mafia-catching efforts this game, imo. You were a predator in Mafia IX, but here... you're like a mouse unless someone accuses you personally.


So lets just drop the fight with words and take a look at my behaviour through out the game and point to me something honestly that says scummy.

Hah. Define scummy, then get back to me. I've already pointed out where your behavior matches classic forms of lynch avoidance, and how it doesn't match a reasonable reaction to normal mafia accusations. Next, you do realize that a player of your caliber could get through a whole game without doing anything classically "scummy", and that still doesn't prove your innocence, right? Acting scummy and being scum aren't even necessarily the same thing.


If you can provide something, maybe i will take on your offer and vote myself to death just to please you.

More WIFOM bogusness. This isn't necessary. There's no way I should be able to convince YOU you're scummy, so just drop the "it's a fair cop, I fall on my sword for thee" act, because that's all it is; another pointless act.


Hopefully by looking at the game objectively, you can come to an conclusion that indeed i wouldnt play my game like this if i were mafia.

No, and no one could ever come to that conclusion. :dizzy2: It's ridiculous that you'd suggest there is a pattern of behavior you'd never do as mafia, given your experience and iron will.


Currently all you are doing is repeating yourself

Currently all YOU're doing is inventing a fiction about me and what precisely I'm arguing. You've straw-manned, red-herring'ed, and WIFOM'ed more times than I care to count. You're acting ridiculous.


with your idea that i could be capable doing a wifom which you are accusing of me. While you should focus on the fact, would there be any sense doing so.

Would there be any sense using WIFOM in a mafia game.... the answer is always yes. If one is mafia, then that is a fact of life for them. Everything they do is WIFOM; would I do this as mafia? Would I do that as mafia?

Why the focus on the WIFOM aspect? It's absurd. The case on you is: Someone may have picked you to be scum! And out of the maybe 9 suspects I have remaining, you're one of the ones I favor most. Big whopping deal.

Your reaction is what's really sealing the deal for me. I hate how you're twisting my words.

[Renata]

Ah, Mafia IX. Forgot that one. Ok, I was riding Kage's butt for most of that game.

[Kagemusha]

Okay then. I am glad I amuse you.



Never asked you to... just asked you to stop acting like I am... insulting your mother, or something, when all I've done is play the game and do my job which is accuse suspects. How have I wronged you, man? This is a mafia game, you should really be able to deal with this. It's part of the game. I'm not personally attacking you, so please, get over it. Defend yourself without inventing straw man arguments and pretending like you're personally insulted. You can do that, I know you can.



See, Kagemusha, you know this is total garbage. I never said either that you had to agree with me, or that my case was based in logic or evidence. You know what my case on you is based on?

Three things:

1. You're one of the remaining suspects. By that fact alone I have the right to accuse you all day long. So already, you've no right to be offended.
2. Your reactions are totally off-the-wall and make zero sense. You act like you've got something to hide or something big to lose if you die. And that's because you are freaking out over standard mafia procedure, which is when someone accuses you based on nothing... then you flip out?
3. You're playing the humor/emotion/pity/WIFOM game. You made funny posts, which historically have the positive effect of making people want to leave you alive because they like your humor. It's the whole reason I let up on you for a while. Secondly, you're reacting emotionally, which tugs at the heartstrings. I loves ya, Kagemusha, but I still gots to accuse you. You're acting like I'm some grand inquisitor and I'm ruining the entire game by being way off base about you, and trying to act sympathetic. Notice how you're focusing only on me when you're defending yourself, even though you show up on the list of a half-dozen other player's suspects? Are they all my mind-puppets, Kagemusha, or is it an independent phenomenon that you might be scummy to them? Then voting yourself, which is not exactly classic Kagemusha. What in heck was that all about, only to retract it later?

And all that amounts to jack squat whether you're guilty or not. It doesn't mean you are. No one is psychic enough to know when you're guilty. But when you're twisting my words around and playing the wounded puppy game, and reacting completely out of character for yourself, it raises eyebrows.



No, Kage... I haven't seen your best mafia-catching efforts this game, imo. You were a predator in Mafia IX, but here... you're like a mouse unless someone accuses you personally.



Hah. Define scummy, then get back to me. I've already pointed out where your behavior matches classic forms of lynch avoidance, and how it doesn't match a reasonable reaction to normal mafia accusations. Next, you do realize that a player of your caliber could get through a whole game without doing anything classically "scummy", and that still doesn't prove your innocence, right? Acting scummy and being scum aren't even necessarily the same thing.



More WIFOM bogusness. This isn't necessary. There's no way I should be able to convince YOU you're scummy, so just drop the "it's a fair cop, I fall on my sword for thee" act, because that's all it is; another pointless act.



No, and no one could ever come to that conclusion. :dizzy2: It's ridiculous that you'd suggest there is a pattern of behavior you'd never do as mafia, given your experience and iron will.



Currently all YOU're doing is inventing a fiction about me and what precisely I'm arguing. You've straw-manned, red-herring'ed, and WIFOM'ed more times than I care to count. You're acting ridiculous.



Would there be any sense using WIFOM in a mafia game.... the answer is always yes. If one is mafia, then that is a fact of life for them. Everything they do is WIFOM; would I do this as mafia? Would I do that as mafia?

Why the focus on the WIFOM aspect? It's absurd. The case on you is: Someone may have picked you to be scum! And out of the maybe 9 suspects I have remaining, you're one of the ones I favor most. Big whopping deal.

Your reaction is what's really sealing the deal for me. I hate how you're twisting my words.

I guess you are right to have your opinion and you can drive for enyones lynch.I guess my grumpyness is getting the best of me.Like you said yourself my behaviour is not my normal me guilty or not.Im now off to hit another 10 hour shift untill 6 am tomorrow morning. Have a nice evening everybody.

[TinCow]

I think it makes Flax look scummy because he could have gotten Split lynched inspite of knowing he was away :thinking:

Right, but doesn't the same reasoning apply to ATPG and Beefy?

[Beskar]

I remember a game in the early days where I killed my two accusers and went "zomg teh mafia framed me."

It is basic WIFOM and no one is convinced Kagemusha, especially as you re-emerged.

[Secura]

Seriously, Why? That's just uncalled for. Not happy.

I get the feeling that he just doesn't like women... I wouldn't pay too much attention to anything he has to say, to be honest.


You and Secura have tried to get me lynched in any game i have played reacently.So i wont put much thought on your reasoning as it seems you have biased opinion about me to begin with.

What does this mean? :<


I remember a game in the early days where I killed my two accusers and went "zomg teh mafia framed me."

It is basic WIFOM and no one is convinced Kagemusha, especially as you re-emerged.

Which is precisely what I said after myself and YLC were killed... we both voted for Kagemusha during the day, died during the night; you could dress this up as a set-up, but from my observations I've noticed that Kagemusha plays very ballsy, risk-taking moves such as this (look at Shadow Fort and all the attention he garnered in the first two rounds), where we're looking at a piece of WIFOM that is so blantant and transparant... and yet it worked, because for the most part the town had entirely ignored Kage until now, when he's been a suspect of both myself and YLC since the third day phase.

[The Stranger]

Right, but doesn't the same reasoning apply to ATPG and Beefy?

atpg is dead...

why are you raising suspicion on a dead guy...

[TinCow]

atpg is dead...

why are you raising suspicion on a dead guy...

Why are you taking comments out of context?

[Askthepizzaguy]

TheFlax wants me to confirm that I got the message regarding Split, as the other hosts did. Yes, I did. And TheFlax was in the CC.

[Diana Abnoba]

Okay my fellow Daggers, it looks like Kagemusha has the most votes for today's lynch. Andres lynch write up sent (with some Pizza seasoning on it- to make it better). Thanks

[Methos]

My three suspects are: Renata, Beskar, and Kagemusha.

Renata just because she seems off. Plus, every now and then she'll IM me about the game, but just enough to bring it up, yet not enough to pull me back in. It's similar to what I did to Niklas in a game where I was mafia, where I tried to get him to become active.

Beskar because he's typically always out front trying to lead the pack. Granted, that's typically in games that have more roles, but I still find his behavior odd in this game.

Kagemusha simply due to all the back and forth with ATPG, in which he brings up some interesting observations.

I'm also curious about split's PM. If that many people received it, then how come we've wasted so much time on him? Why didn't one of them speak up about the PM?

Vote: Kagemusha

[Sasaki Kojiro]

TheFlax is probably scum.

[Secura]

Beskar because he's typically always out front trying to lead the pack.

To be fair, this behaviour always leads to Beskar being lynched early-on, and I know from speaking to him that it really, really annoys him; mafia is no fun when you're lynched/killled repeatedly in the early stages of games (I can attest to that too), so it's little wonder why he's changed his playstyle.

Just sayin'.

[Scienter]

To be fair, this behaviour always leads to Beskar being lynched early-on, and I know from speaking to him that it really, really annoys him; mafia is no fun when you're lynched/killled repeatedly in the early stages of games (I can attest to that too), so it's little wonder why he's changed his playstyle.

Just sayin'.

I can see why he'd feel that way. I was pretty :furious3: at TinCow for killing me asap in pevergreen's game. :laugh4:

[Andres]

Night 8 - Conclusion

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Daggers%20in%20the%20Night/P9150330.jpg



The debate reached a fevered pitch as two of the daggers were singled out as being especially suspicious. However, one of them was haunted by the ghost of a pizza man, and was tormented relentlessly by this apparition before the final decision was made.

"But, I'm not a vampire!" Kagemusha exclaimed. "I've never been a vampire... except for that one time! But that was just a role in a game!"

The Naib, dressed in a flowing black cloak, looked up at Kagemusha with sympathetic eyes, but underneath those sympathies was a desire for justice and a firm resolve.

"Please step forward, my friend." she said.

"I'm really busy, I have things I have to go do...." said the dagger.

"I'm afraid I must insist. It is time." she said.

“I have a job! I work long hours! I need to make a living! I don’t have time for this nonsense!”

“Please,” the Naib said softly.

"You're all out to get me! And that pizza guy... he's controlling your minds from beyond the grave! He’s dead and he’s still talking! And then you say I’m a supernatural being? It's a conspiracy! It's nothing more than a plot to destroy the innocent! I say there's foul business afoot. Our Naib pals around with dead people, and I'm the one who is accused of being a vampire... it's insanity, I tells ye. Don't you see? Don't you see the violence inherent in the system? Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!"

Kagemusha went towards the crowd of people to plead his case, but they wouldn't listen. Then, he saw in his mind the image of his foul accuser, and he became enraged.

"You! You think just because you're dead, that means you can't be a vampire? You of all people should know better... so I can only conclude you're hiding something. I'll kill you until you're... even deader!"

Kagemusha unsheathed a long, curved blade, and charged toward the invisible man, slicing through the air, hacking his imaginary foe to pieces. But still, the voices wouldn't leave his mind.

"Why must you torment me so, after all we've been through together? I curse thee! I curse thee and everyone who looks like thee!" said Kage, who spat upon the ground.

The daggers looked confused at the madman who was yelling against the air and the walls of the Generalife.

"Are you ready for your judgment now?" asked the Naib, warily.

Suddenly Kagemusha brightened up and turned toward the Naib with a pleasant grin on his face. "Why, yes, my good lady. I wouldn't have elected you as Naib if I wasn't ready to die by your hand. It would be an honor to die for you."

Diana Abnoba gripped her blade, and waited.

"Come here, glorious leader, and strike me down for the so-called crimes I have committed." he said, advancing toward the Naib.

Diana's face betrayed no emotion, and Kagemusha continued walking in her direction.

"Or should I come running to you when you call? Come willingly to my own death? It would be my pleasure, my lady."

Diana waited.

"But one thing I will not do, is die without a fight, my lady. First, you must defeat me in glorious comba-"

Beskars’ head fell to the ground, with his body crumpling a split second later. Diana calmly walked past the body of the fallen, and retrieved her blade from the hot sand several paces behind him. Then she took out a silver dagger and placed it swiftly into Beskars’ heart.

The other daggers murmured anxiously at the suddenness of the event.

Diana retrieved her knife and then she froze. She stared at Beskars’ body. She turned pale and looked up.

“How? What?”

The daggers looked at their Naib. Some stepped forward.

“That’s impossible!” one exclaimed.

“I swear that I saw Kagemusha attacking the Naib!” another one said.

The brothers and sisters looked around and found Kagemusha, who was standing at the opposite side of the courtyard, alive and kicking. He looked surprised, then relieved.

“I guess it just wasn’t my time yet,” he said, and he shrugged, a slightly amused expression on his face in an attempt to hide that he was facing death no more than a few minutes ago.

It took a while before the Naib calmed down and was able to speak again.

"There's nothing more to see here. Go back to your rooms and remember to lock them this time. Anyone who fails to do so will have to deal with me. Have a safe and pleasant sleep." said Diana, who motioned for them all to leave.

They dispersed quickly, throwing uncomfortable looks at the man who had just cheated death.

The Naib stared at Kagemusha’s back.

What the :daisy: just happened?


***

Tally:

Kagemusha Beskar: 6 (Scienter, Methos, TinCow, TheFlax, Beskar, Renata)

Methos: 3 (Kukrikhan, Diamondeye, pevergreen)
Beskar: 3 (Choxorn, Kagemusha, Beefy187)
TheFlax: 1 (splitpersonality)
splitpersonality: 1 (The Stranger)

Not voting: 3 (Diana (Naib), Jolt, Double A)

***

Alive (16)

1. TheFlax
2. Renata
3. Diana Abnoba
4. Double A
5. TinCow
6. The Stranger
7. Methos
8. spL1tp3r50naL1ty
9. Jolt
10. Choxorn
11. Kukrikhan
12. Beefy187
13. Kagemusha
14. pevergreen
15. DiamondEye
16. Scienter

Killed (15)

autolycus
Yaropolk
Chaotix
Centurion1
Ibn-Khaldun
Psychonaut
Sasaki Kojiro
Yaseikhaan
Peasant Phill
Death is yonder
YLC
Secura
Captain Blackadder
GreyBlades
Niklas

Lynched (8)

Csargo
Askthepizzaguy
Seon
GeneralHankerchief
White_Eyes:D
Romanic
atheotes
Beskar

WoG (1)
AVSM


***

It's now night. PM's please. Night will last for +/- 23 hours.

:bow:

[Beskar]

Kagemusha is the ancient evil.

Told you so.

edit: Secura got first dibs, then YLC, and those others who suspected him as well. Those who voted me are Mafia.

[Secura]

Hahaha, YLC and I were right. xD

[ULC]

Told you all, and I gave very specific reasoning as to why. Instead the town ignores me and Secura...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That is an odd mechanic...to give the ancient vampire a lynch switching ability doesn't make much sense, because he would just be lynched the next day, unless the only way he can be killed is with the vig shot.

But, kage should be vigged tonight.

[Beskar]

That is an odd mechanic...to give the ancient vampire a lynch switching ability doesn't make much sense, because he would just be lynched the next day, unless the only way he can be killed is with the vig shot.

But, kage should be vigged tonight.

No, he can't be killed unless his minions are dead. I was second on the list, hence why I died.

Though, I was really convinced of Kage's guilt when he resurfaced and cried about getting picked on, and tried to accuse me of framing him. :laugh4:

[Secura]

Hahaha, what he said.

[Askthepizzaguy]

We think Kagemusha is the ancient evil or the "special role".

In any case, we wish to use a vig kill tonight. EVERYONE: send Diana your suggestion for who to kill, and most especially your REASONS why they need to be killed.

I have already offered my opinion. I believe an attack on Kagemusha will fail at night as well. But I want to save that other vig kill for him just in case.

In the meantime, I'm looking for henchmen, and I think we have it narrowed down. But it would be nice if this was a team effort, so Diana doesn't just pick who Beskar and I think it is. Show us the path you would choose.

I'm disappointed only a few of you responded to my "top 3 suspects" call. That does not make me a happy pizza.

[atheotes]

what does this mean? we need to get rid of the grunts before the ancient one?

i think we took a huge step in the game.

there are many people here who have voiced that Kage is suspect and some have voted for him as well...so it is good.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The Ancient one is supposed to be the equivalent of the godfather, where do you guys see that he can't be killed until his minions are?

[Askthepizzaguy]

The Ancient one is supposed to be the equivalent of the godfather, where do you guys see that he can't be killed until his minions are?

If Kagemusha were some "special role" which was aligned with the town, he wouldn't have argued so hard against being lynched, but he would have stated that he would have been able to survive it. Everything we saw this round from Kagemusha seems to be guilt stink. Townie-roles wouldn't really have a reason to lie if the lynch was about to happen anyway.

It seems to me he had something to hide, which was the fact that he can only be either mafia or a special role. I'd suspect if he were a basic slave henchman he'd be dead quite easily. So that leaves the special "ancient one" godfather role, or the special "unknown" role.

Perhaps the unknown role is aligned with the mafia, like a mastermind or a town traitor, and can't be lynched until the mafia is dead. Who knows.

What I do believe is that whatever just happened regarding Kagemusha indicates that he's not town-aligned. I'd like to make sure he's dead before the end of the game, so I'd ask to keep handy 1 vigilante power. Until then, he seems lynch immune and it may be because we need to remove the henchmen first.

And of course, if he's not the godfather, then we need to be looking elsewhere for that one anyway. So in all cases, our hunt begins on suspects other than Kagemusha, and IMO Kage cannot survive the game.

[Diana Abnoba]

Wow! Okay we found the Ancient One. He can't be lynched until all the henchmen are dead, it seems. But can he be Vig killed? Or do we need to Vig kill the other henchmen. I need a consensus please. Should I sent orders to use 1 of our Vig kills tonight, and on who?

1. Kagemusha- do you think that Ancient One can be Vig killed?
2. A Henchmen- give me your list of who you guys think this is. looking at the voting pattern today I think it could be; Beefy (the only person that sticks out that voted Beskar today) OR did they know that Kagemusha could switch the person that gets lynched. (in that case we need to look at the votes on Kagemusha) the ones that stand out to me are; Methos and Tin Cow.

Or don't send in Vig kills orders, just protection again.

I need everyone's input (except the mafia please :laugh4: ) before I sent in orders for tonight. Thanks. :bow:

[TinCow]

If Kagemusha were a town-aligned special role, he would have claimed. We do, after all, have an un-killable doctor ability in the Naib. Kagemusha is clearly bad news, and almost certainly the mafia Godfather.

So, the question now... who would Kage have picked as henchmen?

[atheotes]

So, the question now... who would Kage have picked as henchmen?

I have already sent 1 choice to Diana...you could be the second :juggle:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I like Beefy187 as a vig kill. Sorry Beefy, I don't know what you've been smoking this game. You're acting like you don't know what the game setup is.
But Methos also tickles my funny bone.
And I'm very sorry, but Kukrikhan would make another excellent choice. He can easily survive a long time by simply doing nothing scummy... and then occasionally act like he has no idea what's going on.

I had Tincow on my list but now I am not sure. He's certainly capable of being this smooth.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's not at all clear that this was an ability of Kage's. It could be that the ancient vampire has the power to mess with lynches. For all we know atheotes is innocent and they were framing him, and kage was innocent (actually more likely a henchman) and the ancient one prevented his lynch.

The OP says that the ancient function like the godfather, but may have powers. So it is likely that the kage is not the ancient, but was saved by the ancient, going off of the OP.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

At LEAST one of the vig kills should be held on to for quite a while.

[Secura]

So, the question now... who would Kage have picked as henchmen?

I'd wager that he would pick at least one low-profile player; either someone who's a notorious lurker/quiet player or someone new/returning to mafia. They'd be overlooked by the town for the most part either due to a belief that they're riding the WOG Wagon or because they're newbies and unlikely to be seen as scum.

The second player would be someone high-profile both for their analytical and insightful playing style and for the fact that they're usually lynchbait. I think it would be someone that the Ancient could ensure would survive until the end-game, whereby the slave's identity may be uncovered but the town would be in too fragile a position by that point to effectively lynch both the slave and the master.

That's my two cents on it.

[TinCow]

In case the Naib is thinking of vig killing me tonight, I urge you to take a look at my posts about Kagemusha during the last night phase (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2494778&viewfull=1#post2494778), before today's bandwagon began, and consider that I was the first person to lodge a vote on him today (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495042&viewfull=1#post2495042). The mafia did not gain anything by having Kage IDed as the godfather here. In order for me to be scum, I'd have to be a total idiot to lead off the case against him like that. I hope your opinion of me is higher than that.

[Scienter]

It's not at all clear that this was an ability of Kage's. It could be that the ancient vampire has the power to mess with lynches. For all we know atheotes is innocent and they were framing him, and kage was innocent (actually more likely a henchman) and the ancient one prevented his lynch.

The OP says that the ancient function like the godfather, but may have powers. So it is likely that the kage is not the ancient, but was saved by the ancient, going off of the OP.


At LEAST one of the vig kills should be held on to for quite a while.

I don't think that a vig kill on Kagemusha is necessarily a good idea since we've only got 2. We don't know what the Ancient's powers are. Can he save only his henchmen, or can he do that to anyone? If, for a second, we assume Kagemusha is not the Ancient and that the Ancient saved him, it could mean that he's a henchman or that the Ancient wants us to believe that Kagemusha is a henchman to throw us off of his real helpers. We're all very focused on Kagemusha right now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Tincow-

That's still WIFOM... and I wouldn't put it past you. If the only way we could bring down Kagemusha was to have you dead first, then establishing your innocence by revealing kage and being first to the party should keep you alive. It remains to be seen if you ever get attacked by the mafia.

But I wouldn't worry so much; you're not the top suspect in several people's minds... mine and more importantly, the living players.

[Diana Abnoba]

My Naib office is a democracy. That is why I'm asking for everyone's input. It will not be my choice alone, that decides this. So, no need to worry so much Tin Cow (well unless you are the top choice of all the daggers). :evilgrin: :laugh4:

[TinCow]

That's still WIFOM... and I wouldn't put it past you. If the only way we could bring down Kagemusha was to have you dead first, then establishing your innocence by revealing kage and being first to the party should keep you alive. It remains to be seen if you ever get attacked by the mafia.

With that kind of post, you've pretty much guaranteed I'll survive until the end. :laugh4:

In any case, I recommend a look at The Stranger. On review of today's posting, his posts stand out the most to me. He never voted for Kage and he pushed for an 'easy' split bandwagon (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495479&viewfull=1#post2495479) right as Kage was under a lot of pressure. He also goes after Renata for attacking Kage (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495515&viewfull=1#post2495515). He's also schizophrenic with his accusations. Here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2494756&viewfull=1#post2494756) he claims his top suspects are me, pever, and Beskar. Today he adds Renata to the list (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495348&viewfull=1#post2495348), but then 7 minutes later he urges a vig kill on Kage and Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495352&viewfull=1#post2495352)? Kage? TS had never mentioned he had any suspicion of Kage before... even though he listed his suspect two posts before that. How did his bloodlust for Kage appear in the space of 7 minutes? That looks to me like an effort to divert the vote on Kage by starting an effort to have him attacked at night instead, something which is likely to fail against a godfather with living henchmen... and likely to burn a town vig in the process. Also remember TS's obvious excitement for the game at the start, as evidenced by his ridiculous posting style.

[The Stranger]

now it is getting funny... got any more tincow?

[The Stranger]

i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.

i dont know who kage would chose as a mafia, and since my previous accusations were largely aimed at beskar, but since we prolly got 2 mafia already, it might be that beskar isnt guilty after all.

pevergreen and tincow remain my 2 topcats. but i rather see them lynched than vigkilled. i think split is a good target for the lynch since he cleverly keeps avoiding wog whilst lurking in the dark.

[Beskar]

The Stranger wouldn't attempt to make any cunning moves, you are giving him too much credit, TinCow.

[The Stranger]

wth... beskar is dead. why?

so methos and beskar were tied for 2nd. why did beskar die and not methos? maybe methos is kage's buddy?

[Askthepizzaguy]

now it is getting funny... got any more tincow?

He has a point. Add on top of that you've been a royal pain in the neck :laugh4:, and you're skating on thin ice with me. There's no rhyme or reason in your movements and you're hyperactive. Not to mention dead wrong on everything and everyone so far.

I also thought you were a bit more productive and less... wacko... when you played Capo di Tutti Capi III. There you weren't anti-social, you were trying to organize an effort some didn't agree with, but what might have proved useful in the long run.

I can't make heads or tails of what your agenda is so far this game. One might even wonder if you aren't the special role yourself. Maybe not mafia, but it explains your overabundant enthusiasm.

[The Stranger]

actually... im bored to hell.

i dont see why he has a point. why would i cover for kage. it was quite obvious he would die anyway. and then if i was mafia, i would know that he wouldnt die when lynched.. why would i give myself away like that. it wouldve been better to have voted for him. i think there we should look for his henchmen.

[Niklas]

Kagemusha should start talking.

[Beefy187]

I like Beefy187 as a vig kill. Sorry Beefy, I don't know what you've been smoking this game. You're acting like you don't know what the game setup is.
But Methos also tickles my funny bone.
And I'm very sorry, but Kukrikhan would make another excellent choice. He can easily survive a long time by simply doing nothing scummy... and then occasionally act like he has no idea what's going on.

I had Tincow on my list but now I am not sure. He's certainly capable of being this smooth.

Hmm... I suck at playing townie. I look scummy.
I'm innocent though

[Beskar]

Hmm... I suck at playing townie. I look scummy.
I'm innocent though

Maybe it was because you kept accusing an known townie, as if possessed on illegal substances, to save your mafia buddy, Kagemusha.

[Beefy187]

I was getting scum vibes from you. And if I went on and voted for someone else, I would be lying to my self.
If I was a scum I wouldn't do something which would stand up this early.

I wanted you lynched from 3 rounds ago.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It does seem out of character for beefy to be so aggressive, and against Beskar too, who usually struggles to get supporters behind anything he does.

It's out of character and also has no positive benefit. I don't see the motive for it. Maybe it's just a bad move... but who knows. :shrug:

I dunno. I also like Kukrikhan and Methos for suspects.

[Scienter]

It does seem out of character for beefy to be so aggressive, and against Beskar too, who usually struggles to get supporters behind anything he does.

It's out of character and also has no positive benefit. I don't see the motive for it. Maybe it's just a bad move... but who knows. :shrug:

I dunno. I also like Kukrikhan and Methos for suspects.

I like Methos for a suspect too. He chose a pretty convenient time to jump on the lynch Kagemusha wagon. Didn't he change his vote from someone else to him?

[Jolt]

4. Jolt- usually you can't get this guy to shut up, almost as bad as Pizza. And you have a lower post count than me- something is off there. (though he hasn't been as active lately in other games either) but just can't loose the scum scent from him.

As I said ATPG, I'm on the final deadline of delivery for college essays. I'm lurking, yes, but I'm reading the thread.

[Methos]

I like Methos for a suspect too. He chose a pretty convenient time to jump on the lynch Kagemusha wagon. Didn't he change his vote from someone else to him?

no I did not change my vote.

[Splitpersonality]

Split is back (of course), and suddenly TheFlax finds an email of him saying he will be inactive for 3 days or so, allegedly for a game that hasn't started yet.

Lynch Spit now. That's enough!


As a matter of fact I actually send a message to every host on every site I play mafia on, who is on this site, and any hosts of upcoming games that I could remember.

I'm not asking you to believe the flax, I'm asking you to believe me.


Oh good god I can't believe you showed up again, split. Somebody shoot me.


I'm sorry? It's not like I left this time without having a decent reason, which was given to the host, and several other hosts. It's not my fault/problem that they didn't choose to inform the general public.

[Renata]

@Tincow-

That's still WIFOM... and I wouldn't put it past you. If the only way we could bring down Kagemusha was to have you dead first, then establishing your innocence by revealing kage and being first to the party should keep you alive. It remains to be seen if you ever get attacked by the mafia.

But I wouldn't worry so much; you're not the top suspect in several people's minds... mine and more importantly, the living players.

I protest. But I gues I am outnumbered.

I won't have anything useful to say until tomorrow, though.

[Renata]

Perhaps the unknown role is aligned with the mafia, like a mastermind or a town traitor, and can't be lynched until the mafia is dead. Who knows.

I think this it is not the case that the special role is mafia-aligned. I was discussing this with Diamondeye the other day. Put together the opening post with the description of the storm from a few updates back and it looks like the special role is very probably the vampire Nikolaos, and that he and the Ancient Vampire are not allies. Whether Nikolaos is town friendly or not, though, or even whether anything like what you propose here might be going on, remains to be seen.

[Romanic]

Nobody listen to me, I feel like the town fool. Or rather, the ghost of...

TheFlax is the enemy. I smell his lust for blood from the Underworld.

[Kagemusha]

Oh it seems im alive after all. How strange. Well atleast the town did my bidding and lynched Beskar.Good job town!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can expect less protestations of innocence from you now, I hope. :bounce:

That's a relief.

[Diana Abnoba]

I have counted all the votes, reread the thread, and read my PMs regarding tonight's actions. Thanks to all that participated. Orders have been sent to Andres. :bow:

[Kagemusha]

I can expect less protestations of innocence from you now, I hope. :bounce:

That's a relief.

Hmm..What i have done now to become guilty?Witnessed as Diana silenced poor old Beskie?

[ULC]

Hmm..What i have done now to become guilty?Witnessed as Diana silenced poor old Beskie?

Oh Kage, your such a wonderfully entertaining revealed mafioso, it's why I suspected Andres picked you.

[Kagemusha]

Oh Kage, your such a wonderfully entertaining revealed mafioso, it's why I suspected Andres picked you.

What mafia? Its the press.You cant silence the press just like that.It is not as if we are in North Korea.

[Askthepizzaguy]

actually seems kinda half-hearted to me. It's patently obvious Beskar was innocent, and that his lynch wasn't town's doing. So he's just openly admitting it rather than putting on a good show.

Makes me sad. Now I can't joust with him anymore. :cry:

[Splitpersonality]

Makes me sad. Now I can't joust with him anymore. :cry:


I thought I was the only one you jousted with!

[Kagemusha]

actually seems kinda half-hearted to me. It's patently obvious Beskar was innocent, and that his lynch wasn't town's doing. So he's just openly admitting it rather than putting on a good show.

Makes me sad. Now I can't joust with him anymore. :cry:

Dont worry ATPG as there are lot of things to do even post mortem. Maybe you would like to join our contest: Who´s next? As you must remember we have great prizes for the ones who can predict the next lynch or the next suicides/ accidents that happen. As the night is approaching you should now guess who might die next!:yes:

[Diana Abnoba]

@ Kage

:tongue3: :brood: Your day will come SOON :chucks:

[Kagemusha]

@ Kage

:tongue3: :brood: Your day will come SOON :chucks:

With all due respect to deceased ATPG. I was practically already throwing myself at you, but you decided to go with Beskar.:tongue3:

[atheotes]

Maybe it was because you kept accusing an known townie, as if possessed on illegal substances, to save your mafia buddy, Kagemusha.

a known townie before your death - i must have missed it. It is now likely that you are a townie because i dont give much credence to the possibility of having a game mechanic where a henchman gets killed in the ancient one's place any time the Ancient one is the lynch candidate because that would mean easy elimination of mafia.

Anyways, someone brought up the qn as to why you were lynched though u were tied for second place with Methos. It brings up the possibility that Methos could be one of the grunts and Kage's vote for you perhaps got you lynched.

Are we willing to risk the death of another townie to find out if Kage is really unlynchable?

[Kagemusha]

a known townie before your death - i must have missed it. It is now likely that you are a townie because i dont give much credence to the possibility of having a game mechanic where a henchman gets killed in the ancient one's place any time the Ancient one is the lynch candidate because that would mean easy elimination of mafia.

Anyways, someone brought up the qn as to why you were lynched though u were tied for second place with Methos. It brings up the possibility that Methos could be one of the grunts and Kage's vote for you perhaps got you lynched.

Are we willing to risk the death of another townie to find out if Kage is really unlynchable?

So i should take that you are betting that Kage Al Musha will be indeed the next lynch?

[atheotes]

So i should take that you are betting that Kage El Musha will be indeed the next lynch?

it is going to depend on what happens during the night.

[Kagemusha]

it is going to depend on what happens during the night.

Allright then we wont register your prediction yet.

[Askthepizzaguy]

*popcorn munching*

See, kiddies, atheotes and Kage are putting on a lovely play for us. Come watch!

[Kagemusha]

*popcorn munching*

See, kiddies, atheotes and Kage are putting on a lovely play for us. Come watch!

And you the ghost of the once so venerable pizzaman.Who do you predict is going to die tonight and whom might be lynched the next day?

[atheotes]

Allright then we wont register your prediction yet.

Anyways i am dead already...what use is placing a bet? perhaps you could revive me? then i will be willing to play the game.

[Splitpersonality]

I predict I'll die tonight by Vig

:(

[Kagemusha]

Anyways i am dead already...what use is placing a bet? perhaps you could revive me? then i will be willing to play the game.

We have wonderfull prizes.You might never know what you might win.~:)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I don't really get the impression that both atheotes and kage are mafia.

[atheotes]

We have wonderfull prizes.You might never know what you might win.~:)

as i said already...unfortunately i am dead and cant place any bets.

[Kagemusha]

I predict I'll die tonight by Vig

:(

Thank you for playing!:bow:

So the tally is:

Split predicts split will die tonight.

Split 1

[Askthepizzaguy]

And you the ghost of the once so venerable pizzaman.Who do you predict is going to die tonight and whom might be lynched the next day?

It's "who" might be lynched the next day, not "whom".

I predict that Kagemusha will be forced to murder his own henchman tonight. :mellow:

(because it is more lulzy that way)

[Kagemusha]

It's "who" might be lynched the next day, not "whom".

I predict that Kagemusha will be forced to murder his own henchman tonight. :mellow:

(because it is more lulzy that way)

Oh so now you are picking at my terrible grammar. Bad,bad ghoul!:croc:

[Methos]

*popcorn munching*

See, kiddies, atheotes and Kage are putting on a lovely play for us. Come watch!

...but their "lovely" show is putting me at risk. My guess is Andres used random.org to decide between Beskar and myself.

@Kage: Can I bet that I won't be killed tonight? You all have me laid out for lynch bait, so I'm very safe from you. I also consider myself a possibility for being vigged, but I don't believe I'll be the one tonight. I'll place my vig bet on Split.

[The Stranger]

...but their "lovely" show is putting me at risk. My guess is Andres used random.org to decide between Beskar and myself.

@Kage: Can I bet that I won't be killed tonight? You all have me laid out for lynch bait, so I'm very safe from you. I also consider myself a possibility for being vigged, but I don't believe I'll be the one tonight. I'll place my vig bet on Split.

i dont think so. kage wanted beskar dead. so it is either because kage's vote was placed on beskar or because he decided beskar when andres asked him who of you 2 had to die. the question is ofcourse... what are you to him? quite conveniently you could have voted for him without risking his death, because you knew this would happen. and apparently, you have done this too.

[Renata]

What is Methos to Kage? An easier lynch than Beskar, maybe. He failed to place three votes. He knows what that gets people, by endgame. I'm sort of wandering back off of him as a suspect.

[TinCow]

Are we willing to risk the death of another townie to find out if Kage is really unlynchable?

Yes. Since the Ancient Vampire can kill solo, we have no way of knowing when we've killed both henchmen and Kage becomes vulnerable. All we'll see is a string of one kill nights without being able to tell whether there is one henchman alive or none. We should be giving Kage the lynch every night and trying to put our top suspect into the #2 spot. It will be tricky to do this, but I don't see another way to get around the fact that we're going to have to keep testing Kage with lynches on a regular basis until the game is over.

For this reason, I agree that a top suspect should be vigged. The time has come.

[The Stranger]

well... since there isnt really a consensus on who is the top suspect and there are still alot of people playing, it might not be so smart to vigkill straight away. lets wait one night and see what the mafia does.

because consider this case, the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills, which they will use this night. we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.

i do agree that kage should be lynnched everyday from now on, untill we find a clue that he might not really be an ancient. though i think he is, since his reactions so far do not really deny it.

[pevergreen]

Vote: The Stranger

[The Stranger]

it is night... FOS at pever... for voting during nightphase without giving any reason.

[TinCow]

well... since there isnt really a consensus on who is the top suspect and there are still alot of people playing, it might not be so smart to vigkill straight away. lets wait one night and see what the mafia does.

because consider this case, the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills, which they will use this night. we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.

This is possibly your scummiest post so far in the game. I don't think anyone believes Diana is mafia, so anyone she kills is like a second lynch for the town. If there are still 2 henchmen left alive, then it becomes even more important for us to dispose of them faster than we can with the lynch. 2 henchmen alive means 3 mafia votes every day, which will make it difficult to put a henchman iinto the #2 slot after Kage. So, vigging suspects is a good idea at this point.

[pevergreen]

it is night... FOS at pever... for voting during nightphase without giving any reason.

My bad.

:sweatdrop: Hi Andres...

[KukriKhan]

LOL, you're not alone mate. I started to make a vote post, then checked the last write-up. Oops!

[The Stranger]

This is possibly your scummiest post so far in the game. I don't think anyone believes Diana is mafia, so anyone she kills is like a second lynch for the town. If there are still 2 henchmen left alive, then it becomes even more important for us to dispose of them faster than we can with the lynch. 2 henchmen alive means 3 mafia votes every day, which will make it difficult to put a henchman iinto the #2 slot after Kage. So, vigging suspects is a good idea at this point.

i hadnt thought of it that way. you are right about that. and i didnt say diana was mafia, i just said that we might not pick the right suspect.

[Renata]

TinCow's idea to keep lynching Kagemusha under controlled circumstances is really intriguing, and I think I'm all for it, provided:
-- we all place normal votes for most of the day, switching to Kagemusha as necessary only in the last few hours, and
-- enough people commit to be around near day end to make the switch possible
-- we lynch (or vig) anyone who screws it up

I'm in for trying to work out some ground rules, anyone else?

[TinCow]

i hadnt thought of it that way. you are right about that. and i didnt say diana was mafia, i just said that we might not pick the right suspect.

I'd like some more explanations from you. Yesterday, you were gung-ho on vig kills:


still protecting beskar eh...

i think it is becoming time to use the vig kill.

i think everyone should vote which 2 persons they want to see vigkilled. this may tell us alot about who is mafia too. anyone who doesnt vote... is suspicious.

Vigkill: Renata
Vigkill:Kagemusha

i believe them to be scummy but im not entirely sure about their intentions, they might be genuine townies, but i dont want to take the risk.

You thought it was time to use vig kills and you weren't particularly concerned about killing off "genuine townies" in the process.

Yet, as soon as Kage is lynched, you suddenly go moderately anti-vig kill:


i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.

i dont know who kage would chose as a mafia, and since my previous accusations were largely aimed at beskar, but since we prolly got 2 mafia already, it might be that beskar isnt guilty after all.

pevergreen and tincow remain my 2 topcats. but i rather see them lynched than vigkilled. i think split is a good target for the lynch since he cleverly keeps avoiding wog whilst lurking in the dark.

And several hours later you make a strong push to stop any vig kills:


well... since there isnt really a consensus on who is the top suspect and there are still alot of people playing, it might not be so smart to vigkill straight away. lets wait one night and see what the mafia does.

because consider this case, the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills, which they will use this night. we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.

The only thing that changed between your first post, pushing the vig kills, and your later posts discouraging vig kills, is Kage being found out as the godfather. If anything that should make people more inclined to use vig kills, not less. Your flipflip is not consistent with being a townie.

Also note that in the second post I quoted above, you say "we prolly got 2 mafia already" but then in the third post you try to argue that "the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills." You're adopting contradictory stances as it suits you and you're not basing your arguments on personally grounded beliefs. This is also not consistent with being a townie.

Finally, this bit is totally off:


we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.

You're saying that a situation with 3 mafioso and 10 townies alive would be "tricky to pull off a victory" but a situation with 3 mafioso and 11 townies alive would be a "comfortable position"? That doesn't make any sense at all.

[The Stranger]

well... like i said, i hadnt considered the votes, only the kills. so you were right.

and why i urged caution with the vigkills is because, they will be our only way getting the last mafioso, since we will be lynching kage from now on every day.

while earlier i thought the vigkill as a bonus, an extra shot to get a mafioso, not our only means.

[Renata]

and why i urged caution with the vigkills is because, they will be our only way getting the last mafioso, since we will be lynching kage from now on every day.

I don't follow the reasoning here. Why would the vigs be our only way to get the last mafioso? How many do you think are left, anyway?

[Secura]

It's basic backpedalling.

[TinCow]

well... like i said, i hadnt considered the votes, only the kills. so you were right.

and why i urged caution with the vigkills is because, they will be our only way getting the last mafioso, since we will be lynching kage from now on every day.

while earlier i thought the vigkill as a bonus, an extra shot to get a mafioso, not our only means.

You didn't answer the main question: what happened to make you change your mind from thinking vig kills were good to vig kills were bad? You pushed for vig kills in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495352&viewfull=1#post2495352), and you urged no vig kills in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495776&viewfull=1#post2495776).

During that time, here is a complete list of all the posts which discuss vig kills during the time between your posts:
Diamondeye (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495416&viewfull=1#post2495416) - Somewhat neutral, edging on discouraging vig kills
Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495476&viewfull=1#post2495476) - pushing vig kills
Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495536&viewfull=1#post2495536) - urges a vig kill again
Sasaki (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495708&viewfull=1#post2495708) - urges vig kill
ATPG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495714&viewfull=1#post2495714) - strongly urges vig kill, but wants to save 1 for later
ATPG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495726&viewfull=1#post2495726) - wants to save 1 vig kill for later
Diana (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495728&viewfull=1#post2495728) - asks for opinions on whether to use vig kills
ATPG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495736&viewfull=1#post2495736) - favors vig kill
Sasaki (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495738&viewfull=1#post2495738) - wants to save 1 for later
Scienter (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495748&viewfull=1#post2495748) - Vig should not be used on Kage, no comment on using it on others

As you can see, there is a grand total of 1 post which discourages the use of vig kills, Diamondeye's. Even that post isn't very strong and it's early on; you made several posts after that point and didn't show any flip on vig kills, so clearly DE didn't convince you. All of the other posts are pro-vig kill or neutral on it. So, there's nothing in the thread to convince you to flip from pro-vig to anti-vig. Thus, the only thing that changed to impact your opinion was Kage being revealed as scum.

Why did Kage being revealed make you go anti-vig kill?

[The Stranger]

I don't follow the reasoning here. Why would the vigs be our only way to get the last mafioso? How many do you think are left, anyway?

well... if we would do what tincow proposes, and that is to lynch kage every night from here on... that we can only get his henchmen by vigkilling. in that case it is not smart to throw them away. that is all i was trying to say.

i think there are 2 left, atleast i hope so.

[Renata]

@ TinCow: That first post of mine actually said I thought it was too early for vig kills; and the second was a hypothetical on how split should preferably die, not an advocate for anyone to die by vig tonight, either. I think your argument about Stranger is probably valid despite that, but please don't mischaracterize me just to get your point across.

[The Stranger]

You didn't answer the main question: what happened to make you change your mind from thinking vig kills were good to vig kills were bad? You pushed for vig kills in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495352&viewfull=1#post2495352), and you urged no vig kills in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495776&viewfull=1#post2495776).

During that time, here is a complete list of all the posts which discuss vig kills during the time between your posts:
Diamondeye (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495416&viewfull=1#post2495416) - Somewhat neutral, edging on discouraging vig kills
Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495476&viewfull=1#post2495476) - pushing vig kills
Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495536&viewfull=1#post2495536) - urges a vig kill again
Sasaki (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495708&viewfull=1#post2495708) - urges vig kill
ATPG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495714&viewfull=1#post2495714) - strongly urges vig kill, but wants to save 1 for later
ATPG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495726&viewfull=1#post2495726) - wants to save 1 vig kill for later
Diana (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495728&viewfull=1#post2495728) - asks for opinions on whether to use vig kills
ATPG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495736&viewfull=1#post2495736) - favors vig kill
Sasaki (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495738&viewfull=1#post2495738) - wants to save 1 for later
Scienter (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495748&viewfull=1#post2495748) - Vig should not be used on Kage, no comment on using it on others

As you can see, there is a grand total of 1 post which discourages the use of vig kills, Diamondeye's. Even that post isn't very strong and it's early on; you made several posts after that point and didn't show any flip on vig kills, so clearly DE didn't convince you. All of the other posts are pro-vig kill or neutral on it. So, there's nothing in the thread to convince you to flip from pro-vig to anti-vig. Thus, the only thing that changed to impact your opinion was Kage being revealed as scum.

Why did Kage being revealed make you go anti-vig kill?

it was your post that made me change my mind. not kage reveal.

but anyhow, get your point across all you want, if the town falls for it is their own fault if they lose. i didnt stunt, so i held to my end of the bargain.

[TinCow]

@ TinCow: That first post of mine actually said I thought it was too early for vig kills; and the second was a hypothetical on how split should preferably die, not an advocate for anyone to die by vig tonight, either. I think your argument about Stranger is probably valid despite that, but please don't mischaracterize me just to get your point across.

Sorry, I stand corrected. I think I read the first bit as pro-vig and then my eyes glazed over when reading the final line.


it was your post that made me change my mind. not kage reveal.

My post? Please show where I made a post saying that vigging was a bad idea.

Nice of you to walk right into that one, though, since you specifically said it was Kage being revealed that made you shift your vote:


i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill

Why are you lying?

[Renata]

This is beautiful play, TinCow. Sincere appreciation.

[The Stranger]

Sorry, I stand corrected. I think I read the first bit as pro-vig and then my eyes glazed over when reading the final line.



My post? Please show where I made a post saying that vigging was a bad idea.

Nice of you to walk right into that one, though, since you specifically said it was Kage being revealed that made you shift your vote:



Why are you lying?

are you intentionally misreading my posts? the post you posted before my post, which is the reason you accuse me now, is the reason why i changed my mind. you said we are going to lynch kage everyday, so i said, well than its not smart to blindly use vigkills. that is all there is to it.

i really think you are mafia, but any attempt to get you lynched will be ignored, as it has been ignored since the start of the game. since whatever i say will be ignored unless by mafia trying to change me into their advantage. like kage did by trying to get me lynched. and as you do now.


Nice of you to walk right into that one, though, since you specifically said it was Kage being revealed that made you shift your vote:

why are you lying? i never said that, so dont put words in my mouth. it was you who said that not me. dont try to frame me with lies, be honest.


you can keep pressuring me all you want, days months years :P

but plz answer this question, who, oh who, would chose me as their mafia sidekick?



consider these two cases

i am mafia, but not the ancient one, since i wasnt really a target for a vigkill, i would let you waste it, instead of arguing for it to be saved.

i am mafia, i am the ancient one, and i saved kage from death (this is hypotethical and what i say now i got from sasakis post a few pages back), by using one of my special powers, why would i, again, wouldnt i let you waste your vigkill?

there is no advantage at all for mafia to argue for the town saving its vigkill, for the reason that they are highly unlikely to succeed in taking out a mafia.

[TinCow]

are you intentionally misreading my posts? the post you posted before my post, which is the reason you accuse me now, is the reason why i changed my mind. you said we are going to lynch kage everyday, so i said, well than its not smart to blindly use vigkills. that is all there is to it.

Odd, since I made that post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2496100&viewfull=1#post2496100) about 12 hours after you changed your mind (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495776&viewfull=1#post2495776). I must be better at arguing than I thought if I'm able to convince people with my words half a day before I even speak them.


why are you lying? i never said that, so dont put words in my mouth. it was you who said that not me. dont try to frame me with lies, be honest.

Me lying? I quoted directly from your post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2495776&viewfull=1#post2495776), in which you said "i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill." I realize your sentence structure isn't perfect there, but it seems pretty clear to me. It was your opinion that "since" we had identified the Ancient One, vig killing was not a good idea. Please explain how I am misreading that.


but plz answer this question, who, oh who, would chose me as their mafia sidekick?

Apparently Kagemusha.

[The Stranger]

i dont know if you are blind, but my post is behind yours, i posted my post 1.5 hours later than yours.

[TinCow]

i dont know if you are blind, but my post is behind yours, i posted my post 1.5 hours later than yours.

Protip: that blue text that makes your cursor change to a hand icon when you mouse over it is a link. I put them in my posts as citations to evidence. They are there for your convenience so that you can properly understand the basis for my statements.

For the record, I have quoted the post I am referring to in its entirety once (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2496190&viewfull=1#post2496190), then linked to it once (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2496203&viewfull=1#post2496203), followed by another partial quote with embedded link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2496263&viewfull=1#post2496263), then provided another link to it with my own manual quote (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2496289&viewfull=1#post2496289). Since that apparently isn't enough to make you understand which post I'm talking about, I will post it again in full.


i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.

i dont know who kage would chose as a mafia, and since my previous accusations were largely aimed at beskar, but since we prolly got 2 mafia already, it might be that beskar isnt guilty after all.

pevergreen and tincow remain my 2 topcats. but i rather see them lynched than vigkilled. i think split is a good target for the lynch since he cleverly keeps avoiding wog whilst lurking in the dark.

I have conveniently highlighted for you the sentence to which I am referring. :bow:

[The Stranger]

well... maybe you dont understand what i am writing, but... i havent changed my mind in that post. i was still considering both options.

it wasnt until this post


well... since there isnt really a consensus on who is the top suspect and there are still alot of people playing, it might not be so smart to vigkill straight away. lets wait one night and see what the mafia does.

because consider this case, the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills, which they will use this night. we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.


that i changed my mind. and that post was behind your post, and i wrote because i read your post.

[The Stranger]

Protip: that blue text that makes your cursor change to a hand icon when you mouse over it is a link. I put them in my posts as citations to evidence. They are there for your convenience so that you can properly understand the basis for my statements.

For the record, I have quoted the post I am referring to in its entirety once (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2496190&viewfull=1#post2496190), then linked to it once (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2496203&viewfull=1#post2496203), followed by another partial quote with embedded link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2496263&viewfull=1#post2496263), then provided another link to it with my own manual quote (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126833-Daggers-in-the-Night-In-Play&p=2496289&viewfull=1#post2496289). Since that apparently isn't enough to make you understand which post I'm talking about, I will post it again in full.



I have conveniently highlighted for you the sentence to which I am referring. :bow:

and dont get demeaning, because if i cant do it, than no one is allowed to do so.

[TinCow]

well... maybe you dont understand what i am writing, but... i havent changed my mind in that post.

Really? You're going to claim that saying this:


i think it is becoming time to use the vig kill.

i think everyone should vote which 2 persons they want to see vigkilled. this may tell us alot about who is mafia too. anyone who doesnt vote... is suspicious.

Vigkill: Renata
Vigkill:Kagemusha

and then saying this:


i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill.

is not changing your mind?

[The Stranger]

i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.

is clearly, intented to show, that i am considering 2 options...


you take only one part of my post, you are like those reporters who cut and paste everything to make it look like something they want it to look like. now the question is why do you want me to look like mafia so badly?

[TinCow]

is clearly, intented to show, that i am considering 2 options...

No, it's clearly intended to hedge your bets, which is also a mafia tell.


you take only one part of my post, you are like those reporters who cut and paste everything to make it look like something they want it to look like. now the question is why do you want me to look like mafia so badly?

Very sorry, the entire post must indeed be considered. Taking sections out of context is bad.


i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.

i dont know who kage would chose as a mafia, and since my previous accusations were largely aimed at beskar, but since we prolly got 2 mafia already, it might be that beskar isnt guilty after all.

pevergreen and tincow remain my 2 topcats. but i rather see them lynched than vigkilled. i think split is a good target for the lynch since he cleverly keeps avoiding wog whilst lurking in the dark.

Oh, look at that. After you hedged your bets 'in favor' of vig killing, you once again expressed a preference for lynching instead of vig killing.

[The Stranger]

... now you are getting to farfetched. i do notice a typo, because i say in that post that i think split is good for lynch, i meant that he was good for vigikill.

anyhow, i am done with this, since i you really want to paint me mafia, and in order to do so, you will use guerilla media tactics such as taking posts out of context, such as mine and renatas post.

i cannot properly defend myself against that, and since i have no need to do so, i wont.

[TinCow]

The prosecution rests.

[Secura]

but plz answer this question, who, oh who, would chose me as their mafia sidekick?

A very clever, ballsy player would definitely pick you as their underling; the very fact that you're still alive, despite your inane behaviour and a fair few bandwagons against you, is testament to that fact.

I don't actually have an entirely negative opinion of you, I think that there's a good player somewhere underneath all the trash... so you'd be just as much of an asset to the mafia as a hinderance, which is something that a ballsy player might enjoy, liven the game up a little.


Protip: that blue text that makes your cursor change to a hand icon when you mouse over it is a link. I put them in my posts as citations to evidence. They are there for your convenience so that you can properly understand the basis for my statements.

Oh, TinCow... never before have I read one of your posts and utterly fell in love with it. :laugh4:

[Secura]

The prosecution rests.

Now I know why Beskar always says you're like Miles Edgeworth... there's no arguing against you. xD

[The Stranger]

A very clever, ballsy player would definitely pick you as their underling; the very fact that you're still alive, despite your inane behaviour and a fair few bandwagons against you, is testament to that fact.

I don't actually have an entirely negative opinion of you, I think that there's a good player somewhere underneath all the trash... so you'd be just as much of an asset to the mafia as a hinderance, which is something that a ballsy player might enjoy, liven the game up a little.


trash and good, my two favourite words, thank you!

[Diamondeye]

I love you, TinCow. That was a curb-stomp-debate if I ever saw one (and I, like Secura, fell in love with the protip-part). I think it makes sense to suspect The Stranger... But unlike pever I'll hold my vote until day comes :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am convinced that The Stranger needs to die before the game is concluded. I say we lynch him today.

@ The Stranger- dang, man... you know where my blind spot is. Worst play ever turns into the best play against me, because then I decide you're innocent.

[The Stranger]

ok, my last words.

TC is mafia, and he has really got you good here if you lynch me. it is a wasted vote and i hope it wont cost the town the game.

and ATPG, really... you amongst other people search for clues where there are none, you take the game too seriously.

[Andres]

Night 9 - Conclusion

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Daggers%20in%20the%20Night/Alhambramoon.jpg



The moon was shining over the Alhambra, but TinCow didn't pay too much attention to it.

After his computer went down, he could no longer play Civ IV. He only had two books with him, and "DIY - Putting on paint clothes for dummies" was pretty boring.

So, there he was, enjoying a bottle of Spanish wine while reading "Famous Dagger Lawsuits". He particularly liked the episode about the brilliant interpretation of article 54 §3 of the Vampire hunting Code juncto article 23 of the Dagger Act in the famous Van Helsing vs. The Stranger case from 2000. Surely, this was something he could use tomorrow!

"This (http://false evidence), this (http://fake link) and this (http://blahblahbladeblablabla) will certainly convince them!" he said, still amazed by the cunningness of the outstanding brilliant lawyer Andres Something mentioned in the book.

Yes, he would be well prepared now. A good thing that his computer broke down, so that he could finally pay some attention to this vampire hunting stuff. He'd probably save the brotherhood just in time.

He smiled confidently and opened another bottle of rosado. This country was great and, much to his surprise, they had some excellent wine. He shouldn't forget to buy a few bottles before leaving this place. There's always room for excellent stuff in his wine collection. Some of the bottles he planned to buy were pretty expensive, but surely his better half would understand. And if not, he'd just use the ultimate defence: "But it was on sale!" That'll teach her!

As he was thinking these fine thoughts, he didn't notice the dark figure sneaking up on him. Just when the killer was ready to hit TinCow on the head with a wooden club, his target suddenly exclaimed:

"Go ahead! Make my day!"

TinCow quickly jumped up and pointed his Magnum .44, loaded with silver bullets, at his attacker.

The attacker stayed ice cold and said to his victim: "You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?”

TinCow trembled.

His attacker slowly moved forward and nodded in approval: "A good man always knows his limitations.”

TinCow regained control over himself and he pulled the trigger. The gun made a soft clicking sound, but nothing else.

TinCow started to yell at the gun. "This stuff has cost me 8.000 €. It's designed especially for me! With that kind of money, I could have paid someone to renovate my house instead of buying that stupid DIY book! This is outrageous! A scandal! I will sue the idiot who sold me this rubbish gun! I... I... " TinCow was all red. Rage had taken over.

The attacker simply shrugged. "If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster.”

TinCow looked up. "Are you still there?"

The attacker didn't answer, but simply jumped forward, swinging his club at TinCows' head. Before the brilliant man of the law hit the floor, his head was already seperated from his body.

The killer shrugged and left the scene.


***

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Daggers%20in%20the%20Night/Alabaicinnight2.jpg


"Wake up!"

He opened his eyes. He couldn't feel anything.

"Wake up!"

He tried to scream, but there was no sound. He tried to move his arms, but he couldn't.

"Wake up!"

Suddenly, he floated through the air. He saw a headless body. He looked down and to his aggony, he noticed that he didn't have a body. A flash and his head was being attached to his body again.

He remembered vaguely. "I'm atheothes. I'm dead."

The powerful creature standing in front of him nodded. "Indeed, and that's all you need to know about your past. Now go my child. Go."


***

https://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/aries777777/DAGGERS3.png


Kukrikhan was in a hurry. He needed to go back to his hotelroom. He looked around and felt very hungry. Shaking his head, he ignored the hunger and continued to walk further.

Suddenly, he felt like someone was following him.

Kukrikhan stayed calm and walked forward; suddenly, he took a small, dark alley and turned around. Fast as lightning, he punched in the direction of his follower, but there was nobody there.

"No human being can be this fast."

"Much has changed since you last encountered us."

Kukrikhan looked at his attacker, who was sitting on a nearby rooftop.

"You won't kill me, my child."

Suddenly, Kukrikhan disappeared.

The dagger jumped down from the rooftop, turned to his left and threw his silver dagger.

The scream of a beast broke the silence, a raw sound of anger and frustration. Allthough the drugs had him in their grasp, the dagger lost his selfcontrol for a brief moment. Kukrikhan tried to take advantage of this by clawing at his attacker. But the dagger was fast, too fast, for the wounded Kukrikhan.

He decided that he would flee. But before he could start to run, the dagger grabbed him. Kukrikhan managed to throw his attacker off him and drew his blade. The dagger did the same and a fierce duel began in the streets of Granada. Attack, block, riposte, block, attack. The duel continued and both men were equally matched.

The dagger forced his opponent to the edge of a nearby ravine. Hardly noticing his bad position, Kukri kept fighting. Suddenly, he lost his balance.

The dagger swung his blade at Kukrikhan for a devastating blow, but Kurki's body was already falling down.

The dagger looked down. Nobody would survive this. He had done his job and would now return to his Naib.


***

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Daggers%20in%20the%20Night/albaicinnight.jpg

Renata was fanatically reading an article about an ancient civilisation, when somebody knocked on the door of her hotel room.

Without thinking, she stood up and opened the door.

"You?"

The man standing in front of her didn't say a word.

"You!" she exclaimed. "This cannot be! You were dead! Decapacitated! This is not possible."

The abomination standing in front of her didn't answer, but stepped forward and grabbed Renata by her throat.

The former Naib was surprised by this attack, but her reaction was fast. She drew her silver dagger and stabbed her attacker.

atheotes simply kept strangling Renata with his bare hands. Renata kept stabbing her attacker, but he didn't bleed. He didn't make a sound. It was as if the knive couldn't hurt him.

This continued for more than a minute and Renata slowly lost her strength.

atheotes strenghtened his grip and was rewarded with a sickening cracking sound.

He opened his hands and the dead Naib fell on the floor, her neck broken. Immediately, atheotes' body dissolved and ashes and dust were carried away with a cold breeze...


***

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Daggers%20in%20the%20Night/Lightning.jpg

Lightning and rolling thunder. Heavy rain was falling down.

Somebody could be heard screaming. A scream of joy.

"Finally! Finally! Power will be mine! I will rule! Ruuuule!

Then the lightning storm stopped as suddenly as it had started...


***


Day 10


https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Daggers%20in%20the%20Night/P9150305.jpg

Diana Abnoba was calm. The sight of the small group saddened her. Not too long ago, their numbers were much larger. It would take several generations to get back to their full strength.

"Three of us died last night," she said. "I ordered the death of one of them and we have reasons to believe that he was not human."

The Naib paused and continued: "TinCow got killed in the same way as many others. The death of Renata was..."

The Naib shrugged. "I have no explanation for it. It has never been seen before in our history."

Diana shrugged again. "But let us get down to business, shall we. We need to vote and we also need to elect a Naib today."


***

Alive (13)

1. TheFlax
2. Diana Abnoba
3. Double A
4. The Stranger
5. Methos
6. spL1tp3r50naL1ty
7. Jolt
8. Choxorn
9. Beefy187
10. Kagemusha
11. pevergreen
12. DiamondEye
13. Scienter

Killed (18)

autolycus
Yaropolk
Chaotix
Centurion1
Ibn-Khaldun
Psychonaut
Sasaki Kojiro
Yaseikhaan
Peasant Phill
Death is yonder
YLC
Secura
Captain Blackadder
GreyBlades
Niklas
TinCow
Kukrikhan
Renata


Lynched (8)

Csargo
Askthepizzaguy
Seon
GeneralHankerchief
White_Eyes:D
Romanic
atheotes
Beskar

WoG (1)
AVSM


***

It's now day. You can start voting. You'll also have to elect a new Naib. Day will last for +/- 24 hours.

:bow:

[Renata]

I suppose being (probably) killed by a third party is better than being killed by the mafia?

Something tells me Khan isn't really gone, either.

[TinCow]

Kukri was the vig target? Meh...

[Renata]

Meh?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Does the fact that he didn't seem to be human, as confirmed by the game host, reverse your opinion of "Meh"?

[The Stranger]

wow, i hadnt expected this...

anyhow. seems like tc is actually innocent. i take back what i said.

can diana confirm who she has vigged, if she has vigged at all.

i suppose it was kukri.

[Scienter]

Kukri was the vig target? Meh...

Your death scene was funny, surprisingly on target, too. ;)

[TinCow]

Meh?

I was hoping that TS would be disposed of.


Does the fact that he didn't seem to be human, as confirmed by the game host, reverse your opinion of "Meh"?

I thought that was referring to the dagger that killed him, not Kukri. I am reading that wrong?

[Scienter]

I thought that was referring to the dagger that killed him, not Kukri. I am reading that wrong?

I thought you were saying "meh" to the selection of Kukrikhan as the target. :shrug:

[TinCow]

Hmmm... nm. On re-read, I agree it looks like Kukri might have been mafia. I recommend that Kage be the #1 lynch again today, with TS in the #2 spot.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Confusing.

-edit-


Your death scene was funny, surprisingly on target, too. ;)

ALMOST LIKE THE MAFIA HAD INSIDE KNOWLEDGE

[Renata]

Argh, I'm not sure. That whole section was ambivalent, though Diana does say at the end that Kukri might not have been human. But there's something weird about the one chosen to perform the kill, also.

[Jolt]

Nice hit.

Vote: Splitpersonality

Split hasn't explained the fact that he brandished a neat program to track votes/posts? and yet remained silent most of the game.

[TheFlax]

The way I read it, the Dagger attacking KukriKhan is on drugs that make him faster. Its mentioned that KukriKhan is "Fast as lightning" and when he is hurt "The scream of a beast broke the silence"

Though, I'm not actually sure we can take this as the fact he was one of the henchmen.

atheotes rising from the dead and killing Renata (that's how I read it) is rather disturbing.

EDIT: it seems I was massively too slow...

[Scienter]

Confusing.

-edit-



ALMOST LIKE THE MAFIA HAD INSIDE KNOWLEDGE

Nah, there's no way I'd write it up as him drinking Spanish red wine. :laugh4:

[Renata]

Again it's ambivalent, the dagger is also described as breaking free from the drugs for a moment around that time. Heck maybe Diana used Kage as the attacker and that explains that part; we'll have to wait for her.

[Askthepizzaguy]

vote: Methos

Elect: TheFlax

[TinCow]

ALMOST LIKE THE MAFIA HAD INSIDE KNOWLEDGE

While there is a rather large amount of personally specific information in that kill write-up, pretty much everything described was known to Andres and I don't have difficulty believing it was his work. If Scienter was mafia in this game, it's her first experience as a mafioso. I doubt Scienter would so blatantly ID herself as my killer in that manner; she strikes me more as a lurker mafioso than an intentional WIFOM mafioso.

[edit]What was the reasoning that resulted in Kukri being the vig target, btw? I didn't expect him to be picked at all, would be nice to know how he was chosen.

[Splitpersonality]

Nice hit.

Vote: Splitpersonality

Split hasn't explained the fact that he brandished a neat program to track votes/posts? and yet remained silent most of the game.


I don't recall ever doing that.


I remember taking someone's spreadsheet and putting it in words, but that's it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Tincow- A lot of people had him down as a suspect. This vig kill was very democratic.

The reasoning behind him was a combination of the fact that he wasn't discussing much, was very low key, not controversial, and he was pretending not to know the rules of the game. He's more competent than that.

[TinCow]

Hmm... the more I read Kukri's death, the more it reads like both people were a bit non-human. If Kage was the person chosen as the killer, that would make sense for one of them. We couldn't possibly have gotten so lucky as to have had the mafioso kill off the special role, could we?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hmm... the more I read Kukri's death, the more it reads like both people were a bit non-human. If Kage was the person chosen as the killer, that would make sense for one of them. We couldn't possibly have gotten so lucky as to have had the mafioso kill off the special role, could we?

I don't think so. I think it is those drugs the Naib uses to shoot up her help with.

I'd consider it, but I specifically said to pick someone who couldn't possibly be mafia, who shall remain nameless in public.

[atheotes]

that was an interesting write up to say the least...

the vig kill was probably decided based on the PMs sent to Diana...i know at least one person who though Kukri was guilty :yes:

the Renata kill could have been done by Nikaloas (secret role) because he suspected Renata to be one the grunts.

[Askthepizzaguy]

that was an interesting write up to say the least...

the vig kill was probably decided based on the PMs sent to Diana...i know at least one person who though Kukri was guilty :yes:

the Renata kill could have been done by Nikaloas (secret role) because he suspected Renata to be one the grunts.

Okay Nikaloas, who are you killing next?

Please, let it be a certain strange person.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I don't think kukri was mafia. Weird way of doing things.

[TinCow]

I don't think kukri was mafia. Weird way of doing things.

I'm thinking he might have been the special role, which is probably the guy who made atheotes kill Renata.

[edit] Notice that the thing that resurrected atheotes called him "my child" which is the same thing Kukri calls the dagger that killed him. Andres also tends to do his write-ups in chronological order of events, so the resurrection prior to Kukri's death fits.

[atheotes]

Okay Nikaloas, who are you killing next?

Please, let it be a certain strange person.

:inquisitive:

[Beskar]

See?

Atheotes is always the mafia.

[Choxorn]

Maybe atheotes IS the special role.

Anyway, Vote: The Stranger.

[Beefy187]

I'll vote later. Not sure who to vote for just yet.

[Renata]

that was an interesting write up to say the least...

the vig kill was probably decided based on the PMs sent to Diana...i know at least one person who though Kukri was guilty :yes:

the Renata kill could have been done by Nikaloas (secret role) because he suspected Renata to be one the grunts.

I believe this to be the case. Though he got it wrong.

[Beskar]

I am hoping Nikaloas isn't Niklas... you know, it looks really obvious.

[Renata]

I breathed a huge sigh of relief when he died an apparently ordinary mafia kill, because of just that. I'd have been bashing my head in for days trying to figure out if Andres might be *that* obvious (see: Crazed Rabbit in Capo III) just for laughs ...

[Romanic]

They killed a likely candidate for Naib elections just before election day, this may be a sign that our enemies believe in their chances. Be very careful with who you elect. You will not be able to kill this Naib before Day 14, at which point the game will probably be lost.

I can't vouch for anyone, this game has me completely lost now, but what I know is : Do not elect TheFlax. Please!

[KukriKhan]

Kukri was the vig target? Meh...

Nobody more surprised than I. Though I guess I could have talked more. My late PM to Naib yesterday probably ticked her off and sealed my fate.

Good luck townies. Really. You obviously face a formidable foe, adept at hiding in plain sight.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kukri-

The Naib literally counted votes from a secret ballot. People thought you were the most suspicious.

That way, if we blew a vig kill and it lost the game, at least we could say we did it to ourselves. Share the blame, share the victory.

[KukriKhan]

Kukri-

The Naib literally counted votes from a secret ballot. People thought you were the most suspicious.

That way, if we blew a vig kill and it lost the game, at least we could say we did it to ourselves. Share the blame, share the victory.

Hmmm, I see. I PM'd her this morning (Calif time) teasing her about closing the vig-kill vote and sending in night orders a half-day before the deadline, so I thought maybe that late (and teasing) response set her off.

I do have a mechanical question: in the other Mafia games I've played that featured vig-kills, more than one vigilante was required to be effective (3, I think for minimal odds of success, 4 to gauartee). This game had only the one 'lante. Has that become the norm now?

And: what about the 'falling off a cliff' thingee - no decap or heart-stake, as in the rest of the Naib kills. Different rules for vig-ing again?

note to self: play mafia more often to keep up on game evolution.

[atheotes]

See?

Atheotes is always the mafia.


Maybe atheotes IS the special role.

Anyway, Vote: The Stranger.

the write up clearly says someone used my dead body :inquisitive:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I believe you're remembering the Capo di tutti Capi/Pirate Ship system of vigilante kills, Kukri.

It is unusual that it takes groups of people to do anything. The norm is having one player do vig kills, and most have no power.

[Diana Abnoba]

Nice try Kukrikhan, but it won't work. My results state that the vig kill against you worked, and that you showed signs of being supernatural. So to me that says that we got a mafia.

So today we could test a theory; prove that atheotes was mafia, and make Kage the top lynch today, but just in case put 2nd someone else that we think could be the henchmen. A win-win.
It seems to me that if we have killed the 2 henchmen now, that Kage's lynch immunity would be gone.

I would suggest, that we could use the runner up in votes, from last night, which was Beefy. Also to me, Methos might be a good choice. I'm not sure on the Stranger, but I must admit, I would so love to do his lynch write up. :laugh4: :yes:

P.S. I believe that Atheotes was mafia, do you guys remember a post when he stated "well you could bring me back to life" or something like that. A message to his GF? hmmm.

[TheFlax]

I can't vouch for anyone, this game has me completely lost now, but what I know is : Do not elect TheFlax. Please!

Romanic, I'm truly touched you're still obessing over me, even after all the latest development. Pray tell, do you still think Split and I are super scum buddies or is it just me now? :clown:

Well, ATPG convinced me in private (as you can see from his post earlier) that I should be Naib, I wasn't looking for this mind you, but if enough of you decide to trust me, then I'll take the responsability. I vow that if I am Naib, the remaining Vig kill will be used democratically and not solely based on my very poor judgement.

As such, Elect: TheFlax

I'm all for the plan of voting first Kagemusha and putting our top suspect in second place. Vote: Kagemusha.

Also, the time at which the phase ends is good for me, so if needed I can switch my vote. (I believe that the plan proposed by TC was piling votes on Kage and then some people switching to the suspect at the last minute so he comes second?)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I dont know if focusing on or listening to atheotes is a productive use of our time.

Jolt is skating through this game, he claims real life/finals etc as the reason. I hate that excuse, but it usually gets you killed, so I don't know. Methos smells fishy to me, as does Beefy, but I haven't done a full analysis of the game yet. If you are ever going to destroy The Stranger, now is the time. Otherwise forever hold your peace. I'm ambivalent as to whether that's a good idea or not. Tincow either got under his skin, or someone is trying to frame him. I've learned my lesson and we should lynch TS early from now on.

But, I don't get that he's guilty. I could be wrong. Tincow seems to have a dying request that we kill The Stranger, and I think we could all lose this game with a small shred of satisfaction of The Stranger died. It would be cathartic. So I dunno.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Maybe I'm just out of the loop. But what reason do we have for not lynching kage?

Also, I would say that Kukri seems innocent. I don't hold with this democratic vigging either.

[KukriKhan]

I believe you're remembering the Capo di tutti Capi/Pirate Ship system of vigilante kills, Kukri.

It is unusual that it takes groups of people to do anything. The norm is having one player do vig kills, and most have no power.

Gotcha. I AM behind the times, then. That system you describe does give town a bit more power, balancing out the darkness we have to operate in. Naib Diana A mentions Kage, Beefy, Methos & TS as targets. My only advice: don't get too flush with apparent success, and let it blind you (all) to doing good detective work on the bad guys.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Two kills dropped at atheotes. He could be a slave.

Everyone else who died, Tincow, Beskar, Kukri, not a slave. So we haven't gotten rid of any other henchmen yet, and that's if we've gotten rid of any.

Whatever force kept Kagemusha alive will still be present, lynching Kagemusha today is a waste of time.

And I couldn't disagree more with Sasaki about just about everything he's been saying. I have no idea what his agenda is but he seems both bored and unhelpful, IMO.

[Diana Abnoba]

Okay I understand, trying to lynch Kage 1st and having a 2nd lynchee in place may be too complicated to undergo. Also looking back at the last time Kage used his power to get out of the lynch, we thought it turned on the next in line with the 2nd greatest number of votes, but it could be who Kage puts his vote on. We might not want to put that much power in his hands. Also looking at the rules again, I think that the slaves may not be supernatual, only the Ancient one and Nikaloas (maybe the special role). :wall:

On another note, it was an honor being your Naib, but I need my vote back, and do not wish to continue being Naib. So I will Elect: The Flax for the next Naib. Thanks. :bow:

P.S. I can post my night actions after my term for Naib is done if you guys wish, let me know.

[TinCow]

Lynch Kage, put TS in second place. If this turns out to be too difficult or risky due to voting numbers, just stay solid on Kage and vig TS tomorrow. Don't risk letting Kage off the lynch. Since Kukri appears to have been scum of some kind, Kage needs to be tested again, no matter what.

[Kagemusha]

the write up clearly says someone used my dead body :inquisitive:

Didnt i say we have great prizes!:clown: And ofcourse as these are times of emergency and the previous Naibs have been less then capable of ending this string of accidents. Elect: Kagemusha so the press can save the day like many times before.

[Beskar]

the write up clearly says someone used my dead body :inquisitive:

Bow-chicka-bow-wow?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lynch Kage, put TS in second place. If this turns out to be too difficult or risky due to voting numbers, just stay solid on Kage and vig TS tomorrow. Don't risk letting Kage off the lynch. Since Kukri appears to have been scum of some kind, Kage needs to be tested again, no matter what.

I strongly disagree, we only have so many lynches left. Testing him is pointless as we would have to lynch him again later anyway if it failed. So skip the middle step and lynch him later. Every round, we must eliminate a suspect. Then, when we feel we have removed as many other potential partners of Kagemusha as possible, then we can try again. Otherwise we will lose a townie almost guaranteed tonight, and all our suspects will still remain because they won't be so kind as to bump one of those off for us.

Put Kage in second place though. That might be interesting.

[Romanic]

Romanic, I'm truly touched you're still obessing over me, even after all the latest development. Pray tell, do you still think Split and I are super scum buddies or is it just me now? :clown:

Yes, even after last night, I think you are el vampiro diablo! Don't worry though, nobody listen to me. :grin:

[Kagemusha]

I definetely agree with Pizza that the town should not lynch me.:yes: Why lynch when you can elect me as the new Naib?See Pizza.We have advanced a full circle.Now you are defending me from the bloodthirsty mob.

[Choxorn]

I strongly disagree, we only have so many lynches left. Testing him is pointless as we would have to lynch him again later anyway if it failed. So skip the middle step and lynch him later. Every round, we must eliminate a suspect. Then, when we feel we have removed as many other potential partners of Kagemusha as possible, then we can try again. Otherwise we will lose a townie almost guaranteed tonight, and all our suspects will still remain because they won't be so kind as to bump one of those off for us.

Put Kage in second place though. That might be interesting.

Exactly, we put our top suspect in second so he gets lynched if Kage still has his immunity.

[Renata]

So it's only the description of him as possibly supernatural that has you thinking Kukri could not be a slave, Pizza? Or something else? I'm not following your logic there.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The supernatural being, Kukri, was able to control atheotes. That's not something a slave could do.

[Diamondeye]

I was going to suggest re-electing Diana, but upon reading her sentiments on the issue, I'll go along with hers and ATPGs idea and elect:TheFlax.

I don't know if it's time to try Kagemusha again, but spreading our votes thin is not going to do anything; I believe it looks as is Atheotes was a slave, and Kukri the only other non-town who is dead; that leaves two people who aren't town (Kage + ???) with votes. Don't let those two votes make the difference!

For now I'll vote:Kagemusha, although I'd like Methos to recieve more attention too. I might switch onto him later if it's viable and doesn't hand the mafia the final say in who hangs.

[Renata]

The supernatural being, Kukri, was able to control atheotes. That's not something a slave could do.

How do you know it was him, is what I'm asking. The order of write-up actions only? Why could that not have been just as easily done to make it not obvious that it *wasn't* Kukri?

My main suspect for killing me (if it wasn't him) is on the general suspect list, so I'm not sure it really matters right now anyway, but I'd like to know where you're coming from.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Exactly, we put our top suspect in second so he gets lynched if Kage still has his immunity.

Why is there an assumption that the lynch immunity works this way? Who is to say it isn't totally random, or that kage can select any living person? Why is it assumed that Kage can only use it against the number two candidate?

Furthermore, which of the dead could possibly have been one of Kagemusha's slaves? By my count, that can only be Renata, and I don't think that's enough to bother with a lynch that's probably not going to work against Kage. I'd much rather try to have a few more people who are likely to be Kagemusha's henchmen dead before we allow him to deflect the lynch against any one of us.


that leaves two people who aren't town (Kage + ???) with votes. Don't let those two votes make the difference!

The neutral/other supernatural being was Kukri, right? So by your own estimate we have not killed Kagemusha's other slave.

I give up. I realize that my own opinion here is built on the assumption of Kagemusha being the Ancient One, so do as you please guys. I am just very strongly against it, and I believe the facts favor my position. I just urge you to think about it more, please.

[Askthepizzaguy]

How do you know it was him, is what I'm asking.

Think someone already mentioned that the person who reanimated atheotes said the exact same thing "My child" in the same writeup that Kukrikhan's character, someone who was supernatural enough to cause that event, said to the Naib's servant who killed Kukri.

That's very very strong evidence. So no, not just the order. The other bit of evidence which is too unlikely to be a coincidence.

[Diamondeye]

ATPG: If not Kagemusha, who should the town lynch today? As I posted above, I'm willing to put my vote somewhere else if it ends up achieving something other than Kage walking free.

[Askthepizzaguy]

We must attempt to lynch his henchman. In my opinion, one of the following people, with bolding on my top suspects.


Beefy187
Jolt
Methos
Scienter
pevergreen

After this is done, I think we should use our other vigilante power against one of the others on this list, and then try to lynch kagemusha again tomorrow. That's my opinion.

I realize I am being very insistent on this particular course of action, and I probably come off sounding like a child who is upset that things don't always go his way, which is not my intention. Feel free to choose your own course, but all the evidence to date has led me to the conclusion that our best move is to eliminate as many true suspects as possible before moving against Kagemusha, which we should do very shortly.

Actually, I'd go for 2 lynches and a vig kill before moving against Kage, but I see that patience is not something we have in abundance at the moment, so I won't bother arguing that point as I know it will be fruitless.

[TinCow]

Beefy187
Jolt
Methos
Scienter
pevergreen

TS doesn't even make the non-bold part of your list? :inquisitive:

[pevergreen]

ATPG: omg haxor?

I felt a kinship with Kukri.

WHOEVER KILLED HIM SHALL SUFFER MY WRATH.

[TinCow]

I give up. I realize that my own opinion here is built on the assumption of Kagemusha being the Ancient One, so do as you please guys. I am just very strongly against it, and I believe the facts favor my position. I just urge you to think about it more, please.

It's also built on the assumption that Kage has permanent lynch immunity until we kill both of his slaves. However, it's possible that he only had a one-time lynch immunity. Andres says in the OP that the Ancient Vampire is the equivalent of the Godfather in the Silver Rusher/GH games. IIRC, those games did not make the Godfather lynch immune until the henchmen were dead. It's entirely plausible that Kage no longer has lynch protection. I understand your argument, and it is reasonable, but I still think we should aim for Kage in #1 and someone else in #2. There are certainly enough town votes to ensure that happens properly, if people vote in a coordinated manner.

[Renata]

Think someone already mentioned that the person who reanimated atheotes said the exact same thing "My child" in the same writeup that Kukrikhan's character, someone who was supernatural enough to cause that event, said to the Naib's servant who killed Kukri.

That's very very strong evidence. So no, not just the order. The other bit of evidence which is too unlikely to be a coincidence.

All right.

[Kagemusha]

We must attempt to lynch his henchman. In my opinion, one of the following people, with bolding on my top suspects.


Beefy187
Jolt
Methos
Scienter
pevergreen

After this is done, I think we should use our other vigilante power against one of the others on this list, and then try to lynch kagemusha again tomorrow. That's my opinion.

I realize I am being very insistent on this particular course of action, and I probably come off sounding like a child who is upset that things don't always go his way, which is not my intention. Feel free to choose your own course, but all the evidence to date has led me to the conclusion that our best move is to eliminate as many true suspects as possible before moving against Kagemusha, which we should do very shortly.

Actually, I'd go for 2 lynches and a vig kill before moving against Kage, but I see that patience is not something we have in abundance at the moment, so I won't bother arguing that point as I know it will be fruitless.

I think two lynches and a vig kill would be the best way to go to get rid of this Kage character also.:yes:

[Jolt]

We must attempt to lynch his henchman. In my opinion, one of the following people, with bolding on my top suspects.


Jolt

As I'm being suspected, and I won't contribute much, I'll simplify the question by voting for myself.

If the town decides it's worth to lynch me then do so and I won't mind. It also goes to prove that I'm not afraid of being lynched therefore I am probably not scum. Regardless, decide either way.

Vote: Jolt

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why are we electing scum as naib?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why are we electing scum as naib?

In this circumstance, having a vote is more important than having murder immunity, because it is getting down to the wire.

Were Flax scum, he'd still have to hide it by vig killing who we say and defending who we say. Then on Day 14, if it is Kagemusha and TheFlax versus 3 others, TheFlax still has no vote, and if at that time we think TheFlax is scum, we kill TheFlax, with enough time left to lynch Kage one more time if TheFlax was scum.

Also, I find TheFlax to be the least likely "slave" out of all the remaining candidates that could be one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

TS doesn't even make the non-bold part of your list? :inquisitive:

I agree that he is a suspect... I just had to make a judgment call as to whether it was more likely that The Stranger is being used as lynch bait or not. I'm afraid what The Stranger is doing puts him right inside my blind spot if he's guilty. That said I am done arguing that we should keep him alive. If people want him dead go for it, and I wish and hope that I am wrong, because I am, quite frequently.

[Renata]

Lightning and rolling thunder. Heavy rain was falling down.

Somebody could be heard screaming. A scream of joy.

"Finally! Finally! Power will be mine! I will rule! Ruuuule!

Then the lightning storm stopped as suddenly as it had started...

The first time, the lightning was clearly associated with the probable third party role; it probably is here, too. Is Kukri being killed a good thing (for him)? Or is the third party not Kukri (Kagemusha, perhaps; or the slaves do not show up as human)?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In this circumstance, having a vote is more important than having murder immunity, because it is getting down to the wire.

Were Flax scum, he'd still have to hide it by vig killing who we say and defending who we say. Then on Day 14, if it is Kagemusha and TheFlax versus 3 others, TheFlax still has no vote, and if at that time we think TheFlax is scum, we kill TheFlax, with enough time left to lynch Kage one more time if TheFlax was scum.

Also, I find TheFlax to be the least likely "slave" out of all the remaining candidates that could be one.

Don't throw the sink at me pizza, either argue that it's bad for mafia to get selected, or argue that TheFlax is not mafia, it's confusing when you do both :beam:

Anyway, I think TinCow is right. We have no reason to think that it was kage's power that saved him (I think this may be a holdover from the star wars game where that is what lynch immunity meant). Fortunately he has acted enough like mafia to ease any worries of a mafia ploy. He is either a slave or the ancient, and since the ability could easily be a one-shot, we should try him again. He should have been vigged instead of kukri of course, it's bizarre that we used a shot well before we needed to, and on a non-scummy candidate, instead of on Kage.

[Diana Abnoba]

All this discussion is good, but we are running out of time for this phase. We need to decide what we are doing and fast. The 2nd highest votes from last night poll was beefy so why don't we just pick him. If you guys want make him 2nd (the only other choice) then we can see how Kage's lynch immune works. We must be careful with this though, make sure that Kage or any slaves can't change their votes last minute and mess this up. Which ever way you guys want to go is fine with me, you just need to do this now. We have less than 2 hours before end of the phase.

[Kagemusha]

All this discussion is good, but we are running out of time for this phase. We need to decide what we are doing and fast. The 2nd highest votes from last night poll was beefy so why don't we just pick him. If you guys want make him 2nd (the only other choice) then we can see how Kage's lynch immune works. We must be careful with this though, make sure that Kage or any slaves can't change their votes last minute and mess this up. Which ever way you guys want to go is fine with me, you just need to do this now. We have less than 2 hours before end of the phase.

I will be here all evening.Dont worry.:operator:

[Diana Abnoba]

Yes, I figured that :tongue3: :grin2:

[Methos]

I don't like the idea of putting TheFlax in position as the Naib, so even though she doesn't want it, I'll vote to Re-elect: Diana.

[Scienter]

I'd re elect Diana, but she doesn't want the job. So I won't vote for Naib just yet, I need to think. Vote: The Stranger TinCow's reasoning vs. him is pretty solid.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Diana doesn't want to be Naib again, she wants to be able to vote. And guys, time is running out. I argued strongly against the Kagemusha lynch and I'm done now. If you're going to do that then go ahead with the assumption that it goes to the number two candidate and put Beefy or someone into the number two slot, and do it quickly.

:whip:

Jolt, that's not helpful. Seriously it is crunch time and it's not useful when people waste their votes on critical stages of the game.


Presently, I'm howling in protest on the sidelines. I don't like where this round is headed.

[TinCow]

Diana doesn't want to be Naib again, she wants to be able to vote.

I don't understand why this makes a difference. She appears to be the living person who is least likely to be scum at this point, so she should be in the spot. With (likely) 11 townies and 2 mafioso alive, her vote is not crucial at all. It's far more important to have a solid townie picking protection and vig targets.

[The Stranger]

vote: jolt.

people who vote for themself are scummy.

[The Stranger]

unvote: vote: methos

since it is crunching time,,, i have to go with methos though.

[Methos]

Well, if Diana doesn't want it, then I'll switch it to Unelect; Elect: Methos. I also find it odd that TheStranger has gone silent since Tincow's death, so Vote: TheStranger.

Edit: Cross-posted with TheStranger, but I'll still leave my vote against him in place.

[The Stranger]

silent? that is funny... i just got on.

anyhow... the case of TC against me, that i opted for not using vigkill is bs, already 3 prominent townies have argued that it wasnt the best idea to do so. but when ts says things he is scummy. and ye... i would really claim WIFOM and go kill TC

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't understand why this makes a difference. She appears to be the living person who is least likely to be scum at this point, so she should be in the spot. With (likely) 11 townies and 2 mafioso alive, her vote is not crucial at all. It's far more important to have a solid townie picking protection and vig targets.

Her vote becomes crucial in the next 3 rounds.

[TinCow]

Her vote becomes crucial in the next 3 rounds.

She won't live that long.

[Diana Abnoba]

I really appreciate all the support for Naib. If you guys really want me as Naib, I will accept. But you have to be more organized with your votes from now on, if I'm to loose my vote once again.

So if you want me to be you Naib, you all must change you votes, and quickly.

Let's see Methos has some votes now lets go with him today.

I'm very disappointed that the lynch phase was all over the place. We need to do better the next phase.

Unelect: The Flax Elect: Diana

[TheFlax]

After pondering on the Kagemusha lynch, I'm not sure its best to go for it today, but we need to try again soon, that's for sure. ATPG made a lenghty case, do I don't feel I can add much in that regard.

Unvote, Vote: Methos

Tally:

The Stranger: 3 (choxorn, Scienter, Methos)
Methos: 2 (The Stranger, Methos)
Kagemusha: 1 (DiamondEye)
Split: 1 (Jolt)

Naib
TheFlax: 3 (TheFlax, Diana, DiamondEye)
Kagemusha: 1 (Kagemusha)
Methos: 1 (Methos)

NB: Jolt self vote isn't counted here, since he didn't unvote.

[The Stranger]

hmm TheFlax beat me to it, i noticed it too and was about to post in the thread.

[The Stranger]

forgot to elect:theflax

[Jolt]

vote: jolt.

people who vote for themself are scummy.

Bad move.

Unvote, Vote: The Stranger