View Full Version : Large Mafia Game BuffyVerse Mafia: Apocalypse Now [Concluded]
Greyblades
03-02-2011, 17:53
Like I said, how does that work? Wouldn't an ability to kill make him more likely to be scum than not?
Yaropolk
03-02-2011, 18:02
Where did host say that he'll announce destruction of factions?
Like I said, how does that work? Wouldn't an ability to kill make him more likely to be scum than not?
:lightbulb:
Hey Romanic, let's talk.
:lightbulb:
Hey Romanic, let's talk.
Sure, what's up? :smug2:
The goose flies southward, but the duck is cooked with parsley. :wink:
And I thought that I was the nutcase.
Yaropolk
03-02-2011, 18:59
Vote: Sprig - because I cannot account for your actions on any nights.
Winston Hughes
03-02-2011, 19:00
vote: Winston Hughes
Claiming to be Boffy? Scummiest thing I ever saw.
Where did host say that he'll announce destruction of factions?
I'm guessing this is what you're talking about:
New seasons begin with the Buffy epsiode following an episode in which a team is exterminated. That is the only indication of teams being eliminated.
johnhughthom
03-02-2011, 19:47
Vote: Link
Diamondeye
03-02-2011, 21:02
Vote: Romanic
((I won't be very active these next days since a burglar has stolen my laptop from my house. While I was sleeping in the neighbouring room. Pretty creepy.))
Skooma Addict
03-02-2011, 21:20
Poor Skooma. Apologies once again for being a bonehead, and may we some day be mafia together under better circumstances (I seem to be saying that to a lot of people lately.)
Poor me indeed. You know that thing we discussed earlier, about Mr. Big Bad Vampire, is it true? What you told him that is.
Yeah. But they're going to lynch my partner today, so it doesn't matter. It'll be down to just the recruit after that. Time to bring out the big guns.
Yaropolk
03-02-2011, 22:08
The purple crocodile crows at midnight. Send in the CIA Wikileaks Task Force.
Skooma Addict
03-02-2011, 22:33
Yeah. But they're going to lynch my partner today, so it doesn't matter. It'll be down to just the recruit after that. Time to bring out the big guns.
Do you think it's in our best interest if he is exposed before the death of your brave comrade? Had I known I was to be killed in such a cowardly and honorless manor, I would have done so myself. All three sides need to be aware of him.
Because of the infiltration? Yeah, maybe. Your side could work on making it happen.
Askthepizzaguy
03-02-2011, 22:49
So, when do I start killing townies? I'm getting tired of this silly pretense of being "good" Gunn.
Sacrificing one or two of them to me for credibility should have been enough. Do I really have to kill them all? No one will fall for that kind of WIFOM.
Edit:
Whoops, meant to post this in our scum qt.
Vote: Link
Think you might have edged just a bit over the line with the WIFOM there Pizza, sorry to say. They'll lynch you tomorrow, and then Wolfram and Hart will be no more.
Anyone care to offer an explanation?
Ironside
03-03-2011, 00:13
Ugh, not that fond of this but:
Vote: Abstain
Haven't gotten through the topic enough to reaccess who the potential recruits are.
Greyblades
03-03-2011, 00:22
Think you might have edged just a bit over the line with the WIFOM there Pizza, sorry to say. They'll lynch you tomorrow, and then Wolfram and Hart will be no more.
Good lord, you'd think in a game based on buffy the vampire slayer we'd be able to keep the dead dead.
I don't know if there's an explanation, but I bet there's one. AI and Scooby are making the right calls, so
vote: Link
I don't know if there's an explanation, but I bet there's one.
Oh, there is.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
03-03-2011, 00:36
Oh, there is.
Which would be?
Yaropolk
03-03-2011, 00:44
Anyone care to offer an explanation?
unvote; vote:link
Let me quote to you from an unanswered PM that I sent you earlier today:
Link, last night you were scanned as desiring the death of XXXXXX. That's a strange personal goal. On one hand XXXXX seems like he is a quazi bad guy, but on the other hand wanting someone dead implies you can kill.
What is your role and powers?
gibsonsg91921
03-03-2011, 01:45
Vote: Link
Link is Lilah Morgan.
http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Lilah_Morgan
Yaropolk
03-03-2011, 02:58
Hopefully this is goodbye to Wolfram & Hart
autolycus
03-03-2011, 03:04
60 minutes left. Vote tally:
csargo:1-DiY
Link:7-gibson, johnhughthom, link, romanic, secura, Yaropolk, Zack
Romanic:2-Diamondeye, Reenk
Winston:1-Winston
Not voting:10- Atpg, Captain Blackadder, Csargo, Greyblades, Ironside, Nictel, pever, robbiecon, sprig, TinCow( GRRR)
It would probably be less annoying if it was, but I'm afraid you'll be disappointed.
gibsonsg91921
03-03-2011, 03:18
does that GRR mean TC gets WoG'd?
i love abbrev's
TinCow( GRRR)
TinCow stated in the Visions of the Animus thread that he would have limited internet access until Sunday.
autolycus
03-03-2011, 04:14
That grr was not aimed at TinCow in particular, it was aimed at the fact that half of those still alive didn't vote. Write-up in process.
Buffy Season 2 Episode 1: The First Thing We Do
A car drives down the highway towards Sunnydale. Link is behind the wheel, sipping a coke, playing Beach Boys. Cut to Sunnydale, where suddenly every door opens as one and the home-owners come out, bearing various weapons, power-tools, etc. Roll Opening Credits
Buffy and Willow are sitting on a park bench, talking.
Buffy: So then, the demon dissolved, all over my new pants, I mean, can you believe it?
Willow: No way!!
Suddenly, they spot the mob of adults, walking calmly, coolly towards the city hall, Giles at its forefront. The adults walk past, not even glancing at Buffy and Willow
Buffy: Well, that was strange. Let's follow them and find out.
Link pulls up to city hall. She goes inside to talk with the mayor. The mob arrives, follows her up the steps and into the City Council Room. Then they begin beating her as Buffy and Willow look on in shock, and they don't stop until she's dead.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080129013734/buffy/images/thumb/a/a2/Lilah.jpg/225px-Lilah.jpg
Link was Lilah Morgan!!! (http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Lilah_Morgan)
Buffy and Willow run up to Giles, who is breathing heavily
Buffy: What was that about?
Giles: I honestly couldn't tell you. Something just came over me. It felt strangely Shakespearean.
I'm not bothering with a new tally because no one voted in the last hour
Phase ends in 23 hours and 20 minutes
Orders to me.
Askthepizzaguy
03-03-2011, 04:39
So, when do I start killing townies? I'm getting tired of this silly pretense of being "good" Gunn.
Sacrificing one or two of them to me for credibility should have been enough. Do I really have to kill them all? No one will fall for that kind of WIFOM.
Edit:
Whoops, meant to post this in our scum qt.
Vote: Link
For the record, I voted Link, Auto.
autolycus
03-03-2011, 04:40
Duly recorded.
We're Season 2!!!! Wolfram & Hart is down!
Now to the Order of Aurelius! :charge:
Askthepizzaguy
03-03-2011, 04:58
Please note, I tried to bring Link down on the second round, but yall just had to cap my tamed SK instead.
Lame!
Ha! Now my, "All players die if you are killed" ability can activate!
Please note, I tried to bring Link down on the second round, but yall just had to cap my tamed SK instead.
Lame!
Yeah! :furious3:
Edit: Not that I was a SK, pizza -_-. For GOD'S SAKE.
Please note, I tried to bring Link down on the second round, but yall just had to cap my tamed SK instead.
Lame!
And by *I*, you mean of course *WE* :smug2:
Who was it anyway, that Link had to kill to complete his PG?
It was ME right? They were after me!!!! Everyone is after me!! :scared:
Who was it anyway, that Link had to kill to complete his PG?
We had a scan result that said his personal goal was for Lindsey McDonald to die.
Doyle? Wow, they weren't after me. :sweatdrop:
....
....
....
Oh it's night!!
We only come out at night,
We only come out at night,
the days are much too bright
We only come out at night
yummy yummy
Watch out viggers, I picked "Martial Arts for Dummies" at the library. Ima gonna be ready for you, ayyyaiiiaeee. (Yes my banzai needs work).
Reenk Roink
03-03-2011, 06:24
Watch out viggers, I picked "Martial Arts for Dummies" at the library. Ima gonna be ready for you, ayyyaiiiaeee. (Yes my banzai needs work).
Sigh, I guess my real interesting goal will never get accomplished. Ok, I'll play good cop of the network then.
People are wondering why the writeup of the fluffy kill (I joined this game to play with him you know...) incriminates you two. I never saw the kill myself, so I don't know either way.
You can convince your vigilantes and the forces that direct them here I guess.
EDIT: this entire situation may be coming from a figment of my imagination wherein I read a PM or something stating Romanic and Greyblades will be vigged. Please stand by while I confirm/deny this. :help: :sweatdrop:
Sigh, I guess my real interesting goal will never get accomplished. Ok, I'll play good cop of the network then.
People are wondering why the writeup of the fluffy kill (I joined this game to play with him you know...) incriminates you two. I never saw the kill myself, so I don't know either way.
You can convince your vigilantes and the forces that direct them here I guess.
The Night 2 writeup does not incriminate us, it shows two vampires killing Fluffy. It might as well have been Darla (lynched on D3), The Master (killed on N3) and/or Luke (lynched on D6).
Have you noticed how the vampire attacks stopped since Darla and The Master died? The only vampire attack we've seen since N2/Fluffy was the failed attack against pever on N5, by a single beggar vampire. If we're killers, I wonder what we've been doing.
And you've confirmed our PG, and you never caught us lying because we never lied.
If that's not enough, then meh - kill us already. It's getting old defending against something that we didn't do.
Since we're publicly talking about vigilantes, why don't you vig pevergreen?
On Day 4, the tally was pever 4, Chaotix 4 and Cecil voted Chaotix 10 minutes before the deadline (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132890-BuffyVerse-Mafia-Apocalypse-Now-In-play&p=2053269884&viewfull=1#post2053269884). We now know that Cecil/Luke, a vampire from the Order of Aurelius, and this vote looks like a save attempt.
Unless you know something that I don't, pever could also be Order of Aurelius.
Of course Angel protected him on N5, but I wonder if it was a wise decision.
Askthepizzaguy
03-03-2011, 08:03
I am not saying it's a bad case, in fact it is rather weighty evidence.
However, we also have some weight in the opposite direction, and that's why it hasn't been acted on.
pevergreen
03-03-2011, 12:12
Since we're publicly talking about vigilantes, why don't you vig pevergreen?
On Day 4, the tally was pever 4, Chaotix 4 and Cecil voted Chaotix 10 minutes before the deadline (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132890-BuffyVerse-Mafia-Apocalypse-Now-In-play&p=2053269884&viewfull=1#post2053269884). We now know that Cecil/Luke, a vampire from the Order of Aurelius, and this vote looks like a save attempt.
Unless you know something that I don't, pever could also be Order of Aurelius.
Of course Angel protected him on N5, but I wonder if it was a wise decision.
Cause I'm not only proven innocent, I'm a game winner.
Or have you all forgotten the Way of the Samurai game already?
I start playing, one phase later the game is over?
DELETE_THIS
03-03-2011, 17:49
Forgot to say I would be out, back now :P
Diamondeye
03-03-2011, 22:38
This WIFOM will probably remind people of another game (or, more than one, for CFCers):
"I'm not a vampire"
There I'm dropping back below the radar.
This WIFOM will probably remind people of another game (or, more than one, for CFCers):
"I'm not a vampire"
:laugh4:
autolycus
03-04-2011, 05:05
Angel Season 2 Episode 1: Loose Ends
Angel and Doyle are sitting in Angel's new digs. Doyle looks pretty cheery, Angel looks a bit more glum.
Doyle: Why the long face?
Angel: Well, tonight Gunn kills a woman I once called friend. They say she's been corrupted since we drifted apart, but I'm just not sure.
Doyle: Well, gee, that is rough.
Cut to the outside of the Law Offices of Wolfram and Hart. Sprig is locking up for the day. Gunn steps out of the shadows with a crossbow.
Sprig: What do you want? My wallet? Fine, take it.
Gunn: No, your life.
Sprig goes for her holstered gun, but Gunn shoots her, right between the eyes.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080129013730/buffy/images/thumb/b/b1/Kate.jpg/225px-Kate.jpg
Sprig was Kate Lockley!!! (http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Kate_Lockley)
Gunn: Gee, I've never killed a cop before, even an ex-cop, unless you count those zombies. I'd better scram. Oh, wait, Angel Investigations owns this town, I've got nothing to fear.
Angel, in typical broody fashion, pulls up, walks to Sprig's corpse, and, shedding a tear, closes Sprig's eyes.
The sun comes out the next morning, scorching a few surprised vampires, as, down in Sunnydale, the surviving people break out into a rousing chorus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzY0VuS2pc0)
INNOCENT VICTORY
Surviving Teams: Sunnydale, Angel Investigations, Scooby Gang
Analysis will come out over the next few days.
I'd like to thank the scum for being good sports in a game that was somewhat unbalanced against them.
Survived and accomplished P.O.
Atpg-Gunn-Angel Investigations
Captain Blackadder-Giles- Scooby Gang
Robbiecon-Willow-Scoobie Gang
Reenk- Angel-Angel Investigations
johnhughthom-Cordelia-Angel Investigations
TinCow-Dawn-Sunnydale
Winston- Tara-Sunnydale
Romanic-Drusilla
Greyblades-Spike
Zack-Lorne-Angel Investigations
Secura- Buffy-Scooby Gang
Ironsides- Faith-Angel Investigations
Gibson-Jenny-Sunnydale
Diamondeye-Joyce-Sunnydale
Yaropolk-Doyle-Angel Investigations
Survived, failed P.O.
Nictel- Anya- Scooby Gang
csargo- Oz- Scooby Gang
pevergreen - Wesley- Angel Investigations
DiY2- Doc- Sunnydale
QTs: Wolfram (http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/pqvmfUXdGeH)
Scoobies (http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/EuTWAyp6qDtV)
Order of Aurelius (http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/Prpw8MvJsKx)
Angel Investigations (http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/X6eTFNGuxhm)
Spike and Dru (http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/ztmcgVZJ7wCG)
And I'd just like to say that while the game probably was imbalanced fundamentally, Atpg killing scum on nights 1-3 really exacerbated that :)
That was like the Spanish Inquisition. Unexpected.
dcmort93
03-04-2011, 05:20
Good job innocents. Now who really was doyle because it says up there that Yaropolk was Giles and not Doyle as I was led to believe earlier
Yaropolk
03-04-2011, 05:30
I was really Doyle, autolycus messed that up in the final writeup.
BTW auto Order of Aurelius QT links to scooby gang QT, can you please link the real one?
I think Captain B was Giles.
autolycus
03-04-2011, 06:34
Fixed.
pevergreen
03-04-2011, 06:41
Mind giving us a rundown of how the game actually worked?
Who was what, what victories etc
Yaropolk
03-04-2011, 06:57
Hey no joke, Sasaki WAS the annointed one. I think pizza may be batting 1000 this game for vig kills.
Askthepizzaguy
03-04-2011, 08:00
I will say, for the record, that the scums would have had a rough game even if I were making horrible blunders.
There is no shame in a loss here, the innocent team got into an impenetrable position too early. There was not much that could be done.
i didn't even have time to be a baddie. nor did i get my threesome with angel :(
Well, here's a list of the all the information that the town network managed to compile over the course of the game.
The Scooby Gang/Possible Recruits
Secura - Buffy Summers (protector/vigilante)
robbiecon - Willow Rosenberg (scanner/recruiter)
Captain Blackadder - Rupert Giles (vigilante/roleblocker, two uses per ability)
Fluffy - Xander Harris (secret voter)
Csargo - Daniel Osbourne (vanilla)
Nictel - Anya (vanilla)
gibsonsg - Jenny Calendar (role name scanner)
Winston Hughes - Tara Maclay (vanilla)
Angel Investigations/Possible Recruits
Reenk Roink - Angel (protector/scanner)
Yaropolk - Allen Francis Doyle (recruiter)
Pizza - Charles Gunn (vigilante/protector)
johnhughthom - Cordelia Chase (vanilla)
Zack - Lorne (personal goal scanner)
pevergreen - Wesley Wyndam-Pryce (could buff either Slayer as long as they had no active Watcher)
Ironside - Faith Lehane (protector)
Chaotix - Fred Burkle (vanilla?)
Sunnydale
Diamondeye - Joyce Summers (passive protector, Dawn Summers could not die while she lived)
TinCow - Dawn Summers (The Key, boosted Glory's abilities upon death)
Death is Yonder - Clem
Death is Yonder2 - Doc (roleblocker)
Warman88 - Riley Finn
Romanic - Drusilla (mason, immune to recruitment while Spike lives)
Greyblades - Spike (mason, immune to recruitment while Drusilla lives)
Los Angeles
dcmort93 - Darla
Lord Winter - Marcus
Khazaar - Dr. Meltzer
Seon - Vanessa Brewer (vigilante)
Glorificus
Skooma Addict - Ben Wilkinson/Glory (killer, gained power by killing Dawn Summers)
Wolfram and Hart
Renata - Holland Manners (scanner/recruiter)
ACIN - Lindsey McDonald
Link - Lilah Morgan
Sprig - Kate Lockley
The Order of Aurelius
classical_hero -The Master
Cecil XIX - Luke
Sasaki Kojiro - The Anointed One
I think that's everything we had, give up take a few pieces of information.
pevergreen
03-04-2011, 11:33
Confusing game.
Reenk you didn't reveal to me? :cry:
Askthepizzaguy
03-04-2011, 11:36
Confusing game.
Reenk you didn't reveal to me? :cry:
His efforts ended up sparing you from a lynch, vig-kill, and got you recruited as well. He was definitely there for you, even if at a distance.
Captain Blackadder
03-04-2011, 12:25
Sorry for role blocking you pever though I think it was within Giles character to do it.
Askthepizzaguy
03-04-2011, 12:44
I would like to know why Glory was so passive.
Captain Blackadder
03-04-2011, 12:57
That is strange it seems that most of the kills after around night 2 were townie vigs on the warpath. Since Buffy was well known and never attacked as was Reenk and you as Dunn. Plus at the end it didn't take much to figure out I was Giles. I am shocked that we were never attacked.
Diamondeye
03-04-2011, 13:00
Well that was a railroaded track to a curb-stomping victory. Thanks to the scum for being good sports and props to the core of the town network.
Wow, I survived a game as a townie. I think that's a first.
GG :bow:
autolycus
03-04-2011, 13:12
Attached is the list of who was recruitable by what at the start of the game, except for Dru, where that's listing who she was recruitable by once spike died.
1114
Askthepizzaguy
03-04-2011, 13:22
is there any other format you could post it in? I can't open .docs.
Death is yonder
03-04-2011, 13:28
Oh :laugh4: auto please disregard my pm.
Good job townie network :bow: and to the mafia also for taking things in their stride despite overwhelmingly crippling losses in just a few phases :yes:
I was the "powerful tongue" guy, just in case y'all were wondering when Renata made that post.
And thanks for hosting auto, and for the new lease of life too :bow:
pevergreen
03-04-2011, 13:55
His efforts ended up sparing you from a lynch, vig-kill, and got you recruited as well. He was definitely there for you, even if at a distance.
Oh i know, but he was never fully open to me.
Its ok though, I'm not hurt, we didn't play together this game.
I still love you Reenk.
:smitten:
autolycus
03-04-2011, 13:57
atpg, it doesn't want to let me attach an excel or ods file, and if I try to post it direct, the columns get messed up. Maybe you know how to post a table directly?
Maybe you know how to post a table directly?
Screenshot it, host the image on Photobucker/Imageshack/whatever and post it here. :P
autolycus
03-04-2011, 14:16
How about pdf? 1115
I would like to know why Glory was so passive.
She wasn't; minus possibly the last night, Skooma did about everything he reasonably could do. IIRC Glory could kill/recruit only every other night. The attack on Yaropolk was him, a failed recruitment attempt. He decided not to try again yet two nights later since he had been away and just returned.
We could not even kill at all for a while there -- not even an issue of choice.
I just hope this game provides some lessons about how much of a buzz-saw a group of impenetrable canon-innocents are. All they have to do is start talking (and all *that* takes is a couple of scans, or one player outed in public via a misguided lynch), and it's game over for the bad guys.
Captain Blackadder
03-04-2011, 14:38
I agree Renata what I think needed to happen was a few of the canon innocents needed to be able to be turned. Everyone should have being recruitable as vamps. Plus there might have being Dark versions of characters i.e Giles should have being able to become The Ripper comparing on what happened.
If you look at that document though, you'll see that the vast majority of roles could be converted to one of the mafia sides, if not multiple ones; it was only Angel, Doyle, Buffy, Giles, Willow and Xander that were immune to conversion, and even then Angel could turn if certain parameters were met.
Yaropolk
03-04-2011, 15:39
I think if the scum teams had the possibility of recruitment that would not reveal upon failure (akin to Master's team mechanic), they would have been a lot more dangerous. Renata is right - for pro town recruiter with a starting protector, the possibility of being revealed was not a deterrent to blind recruiting to save time.
Yeah, that would have helped. You'll notice that even with all mafia players recruitment-capable (no way to stop it by killing just the "leader", at least for us. I assume the vampires at least were the same. So there were efforts ongoing the whole game) we just couldn't find our recruitables fast enough to keep up with the town. Link's recruitment of Sprig was the only successful mafia recruitment the entire game, and even at that was an incredible longshot*. How many recruitments did the innocent factions manage?
* After the lynch prior to mine (can't remember the role or player), I was told that since our potential recruits were essentially all dead or recruited away from us already, I'd just gained a kill ability as consolation prize. Prior to that our team did not have one. I'm not sure if that was ACIN's job or what; he died before he ever said anythign useful in the QT.
There was also the issue of lack of cover roles/reasonably-innocent-looking real roles for any of the starting mafia, we HAD to recruit someone central to the town's efforts in order to stand any chance at infiltration or information at all. And it just didn't or couldn't happen. Nor did we at least possess any powers other than kill/recruit/scan, none of which we could admit to much less use to look innocent or useful (scanners with dubious roles these days are all but shot on sight, it's so common for mafia to have that power; vigs with dubious roles are if anything of even less longevity, unless you're askthepizzaguy).
The one interesting thing that did happen was that we random-scanned Skooma on night one and learned he was Ben Wilkinson. But not knowing the canon much at all, I didn't realize that meant Glorificus until too late to do anything with it but chuck back and forth a few PMs about how doomed our relative factions were.
Looking at that chart -- amazing. A ton of recruitables, and at first glance it really was down to just Sprig for us after only three days.
What were the conditions for us being able to recruit Angel?
Yaropolk
03-04-2011, 16:06
Renata, I ended up recruiting on every night after the first 2 (dcmort failed on n1, then sasaki blocked me on n2)
Auto - could mafia have recruited away existing scooby / angel team members? we were very paranoid on the angel QT about revealing real names because we were concerned that an early recruit such as ATPG may be stolen by the mafia and info would leak out.
autolycus
03-04-2011, 16:10
There were a couple of other lucky breaks for the innocents. Oz was recruited night 4, the last night possible. If he reached night 5 unrecruited, he turned into a werewolf SK. Gunn remained vampable even after joining Angel. If Oz or Tara and any 2 other Scoobies died, Willow went Dark Willow and became a Mark Serial Killer.
The only scum recruit attempt that would result in reveal on failure was Wolfram's. The others just turned into kill attempts.
If Glory had managed to get off the ground, she would have been a lot more dangerous. Her first male recruit turned into Jinx and made her immune to lynches while he was alive, her first female recruit turned into Gronx and automatically role-blocked anyone who tried to kill Glory. Anyone converted would auto-sac to save Glory. Jinx was one of the 5 cut, which was a mistake in retrospect.
But yes, the morals of this story are too many masons spoil the soup and Vig killers are lethal.
I'll post more later.
Yaro:If Darla was recruited, she became an Angel scanner and if found could turn him. Atpg was susceptible to vampage even if recruited. Otherwise, no. Once they got on your team, they were on your team for good.
Renata: Anya and Faith were both recruited the final night. Anya would have become a killer if recruited by you. Jenny and Doc never did get recruited.
I'm curious about that too, though I think the answer is no. I told Link/Sprig to investigate Reenk for kicks two nights back (but no orders were sent until last night) and ATPG after that, again for kicks, since he'd implied he might have been recruitable by me originally (turns out not, apparently). But I don't think I would have gotten the "you're all out of recruits, almost" consolation prize if we could just have stolen away a bunch of already-recruited people from the town factions.
How many recruitments did the innocent factions manage?
At the end of the game, the two teams stood at:
The Scooby Gang
Secura - Buffy Summers (protector/vigilante)
robbiecon - Willow Rosenberg (scanner/recruiter)
Captain Blackadder - Rupert Giles (vigilante/roleblocker, two uses per ability)
Csargo - Daniel Osbourne (vanilla)
Nictel - Anya (vanilla)
Angel Investigations/Possible Recruits
Reenk Roink - Angel (protector/scanner)
Yaropolk - Allen Francis Doyle (recruiter)
Pizza - Charles Gunn (vigilante/protector)
johnhughthom - Cordelia Chase (vanilla)
Zack - Lorne (personal goal scanner)
pevergreen - Wesley Wyndam-Pryce (could buff either Slayer as long as they had no active Watcher)
Ironside - Faith Lehane (protector)
We would have recruited a few more, but robbiecon missed an order and I ended up a little paranoid about infiltrators so we didn't risk it from then onwards; Angel Investigations recruited everyone except the deceased Fred Burkle/Chaotix.
7 for the innocents, 1 for the mafia. *cry*
classical_hero
03-04-2011, 16:25
The balancing for this game was terrible, especially in a game where people can search for the player, the mafia need to have a cover role so they can go to the town and try and look townish. I tried my best to find someone who was respectable, but it was to no avail. With so many chance for the town to kill it put the mafia at a massive disadvantage. What would have been better for this game is to have one side of the game, like just have the Buffy series done and that way it would have been better balanced since less people could have good from the start and more neutrals around with the vampires around for the baddies to recruit.
autolycus
03-04-2011, 16:35
classical_hero, the only ID scanners in the game were Lilah, already scum, and Jenny, who never got recruited by any team. You had 14 people recruitable at the start of the game. As for cover roles, it was a conscious decision on my part not to give cover roles, but when Doc and Marcus are both town, characters can't be read for much. It is possible to create a plausible cover role based on the wiki and nothing else, it just takes more work and more guts. For proof, I'd point to the one Atpg made for me when I was dark Link in Hyrule. All 3 principals were reasonable semi-majors, as was Andrew Wells. In retrospect, I'm surprised I didn't use any of them.
I'm curious what you mean by the second half of that statement, classical. If I'd just done Buffy, it either would have been a smaller game or I would have thrown in yet more minor characters.
Anyway, here are my comments during the first three days and nights of the game. I stopped doing them as consistently thereafter.
Pre-game: I didn't want any potential moles in the mafia teams, after
the mixed feelings in Battle for Hyrule. However, I did put potential
for moles in both good guy squads. Willow can turn Dark, Angel is
vulnerable to Darla if Darla gets converted, and Gunn can go vamp after joining
Angel
Bad guy teams Strengths/Weaknesses:
Order of Aurelius: largest conversion pool, but weakest kills, and
few other abilities.
Wolfram and Hart: Humans, so a potential trap for Buffy and could
pass as neutral. Has one of the view ID scanners in the game. All converts
have their own abilities. However, no kills to start out with, smallest
conversion pool, and internal division on P.O.'s
Glorificus: Strongest kill, doesn't have to decide between kill and
convert. However, only one of her, can only kill every other night,
and most recruits scan as Location Hell Dimension
Good guy team Strengths/Weaknesses:
Scoobies: Large team. Can grow. However, Dark Willow real
possibility, actually becomes bigger risk as Scoobies grow.
Angel Inv: Strongest Protection and only guilt innocence scan, thanks
to Visions. However, starts with only two, risk of
infiltration/corruption
Day 1: Fairly usual, Day 1, lots of action on innocent QTs, not so
much on Scum. Secura misrepresents what loses kill for her as killing
INNOCENT, rather than killing HUMAN, despite the limitation being
called Black and White Morality :). Will have to see if this comes back to
bite her.
Day 1 Continued
"The main problem is that this is a power role heavy game; there's the
four of us, and you can bet that Angel probably has a similar-sized
team.
Then there's Faith, perhaps Dawn/Tara/Oz... that leads me to believe
that the respective bad guys will be of equal or greater strength; I guess
there may even be a godfather-esque role, perhaps killable only by
Buffy or Angel."
Secura continues to use her powers of deduction to guess who I have in
the game. Over-estimates size of Angel Inv, but guesses 4 roles.
Ironically, Dawn/Tara/Oz are weaker roles, at least this early in the game. In
other news Sasaki use Anoint in the thread without even remembering that he
is the Anointed One. We'll see what happens with that :)
End Day 1
DiY(Clem) is lynched, an innocent. This is not great for the town, but
is certainly better than lynching Doyle(Yaropolk). With 14 hours left,
Riley(Warman) makes the decision to protect Gunn(Atpg). Unfortunately
for him, this makes him active, and therefore Vanessa(Seon) will succeed in
killing him. Meanwhile, Gunn is going to kill Lindsay(Acin), and the
vamps are stalking Doyle (Yaropolk). If things stand as they are, both
L.A. power teams are at real risk of getting hurt. Atpg seems to have
soft-claimed to Romanic, but due to the way he answered, he seems to
have soft-claimed more as Dru than Gunn. We'll see how this all pans out.
Night 1
2 deaths, both as a result of vig's. One's scum, the other's scum
recruitable. Definitely could be worse for the town. Yaropolk asks a
number of good questions, not least about corruptibility of converts but
switches to trying to recruit dcmort (Darla), rather than Chaotix
(Fred),
due to Chaotix' bizarre doctor claim, and doesn't consider, at least to
me, the possibility of him or Angel getting corrupted. Skooma gets
scanned
by W & H, but he's Ben tonight, so he's not sunk. How much losing
Lindsay
hurts Wolfram and Hart will depend a lot on whether acin stays active
trying to sell the town on him as innocent or at least neutral.
Day 2
Lots of roles revealed. Last-minute random counterwagon onto Link
fails, and Seon dies. Townie, but highly corruptible.
Night 2
Every single protector just about in the game piles onto Yaropolk, while
every scanner scans Sasaki, who blocks yaropolk. Both are attacked.
Meanwhile the vamps jump fluffy, who dies but isn't converted. Weakest
of the Scoobies, but he's still a Scooby and thus begins to pave the way
for dark Willow. Town's doing really well, thanks in part to some
scary-good night kills by Atpg.
Day 3
Even more roles revealed to Secura, and dcmort is lynched, eliminating the
possibility of Angelus/evil Angel. Oh, well. She has succeeded in
becoming the heart of a townie network. The question is, how soon will it
get infiltrated/how soon will she die?
Night 3
Atpg continues his magnum opus in why town vigilantes may be overpowered,
as he arrives at 3 for 3 in scum-slaying. Meanwhile, the scum continue to
be unable to locate recruitables, and atpg gets recruited by Doyle. He is
still vulnerable to vampage, so we'll see if he winds up experiencing that
brutal twist. pever gets stalked, but he's not recruitable
I actually am very fond of town vigilantes in games; it's only vigilante plus perfect information that becomes so brutally hard on the mafia.
robbiecon
03-04-2011, 17:04
Well, it must be said it was always going to be extremely difficult for the mafia teams to win at all. Nonetheless, I think it was a good example of collaboration behind the scenes, so well done to all involved. Three successful scum vigs is a row ATPG, impressive.
autolycus
03-04-2011, 17:18
My breakdown of the initial probabilities, looking at the game after the fact is probably
57% Innocent
6 % Glory
10 % Order
10% Wolfram
2 % Oz SK
15 % Dark Willow
Which was not, fundamentally, balanced, given that that's barely more than a 1 in 4 chance that any original scum team wins.
Reenk Roink
03-04-2011, 17:31
Whatever issues the game may have had thanks for hosting the game auto. :bow:
pever, sorry man, but I thought it was quite obvious who I was from like round 2 of my playing, especially since I told you "join my team" and "Yaropolk's my teammate"
robbiecon
03-04-2011, 17:50
Wish I'd become Dark Willow now. I like those odds.
Wish I'd become Dark Willow now. I like those odds.
When you became quiet in the QT, I had a feeling something like this may have happened; it wasn't helped by Reenk's suspicion of my teammates either. :P
Yaropolk
03-04-2011, 18:27
I really do wish some inflitrations did happen to spice up the game! To quote Reenk's PM to me:
Lastly, everyone is expendable in this game except you and me. We are Shaq and Kobe, the rest are just the other Lakers. :wink: Secura is like Phil Jackson.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Aye, good game everyone. It did look imbalanced toward the Town, things were too easy. I guess our only struggle was having to convince the two Town teams that Greyblades and I were not bad vampires and that we had nothing to do with Fluffy dying.
Thanks for the game Autolycus, and please keep doing Buffy games, I'm starting to like this show. :grin:
Winston Hughes
03-04-2011, 19:21
I have never deserved a victory less than this one. Nevertheless, thanks to Auto for the game, and well done to the town cabal insiders for their demolition of the scum.
Askthepizzaguy
03-04-2011, 19:36
Gunn remained vampable even after joining Angel.
Lol.
Askthepizzaguy
03-04-2011, 19:42
I actually am very fond of town vigilantes in games; it's only vigilante plus perfect information that becomes so brutally hard on the mafia.
It must be mentioned:
ACIN was a fairly random choice,
Sasaki was based on his own odd behavior choices,
Classical_hero was based on his entirely scummy vote for me,
and nothing else.
I had zero pro-town network intelligence on any of these. It really was just bad, bad luck for the scums.
Greyblades
03-04-2011, 19:58
Huh, what happened to Reenk's "greyblades is next"?
I'm amused that I actually correctly called you a vampire. Romanic I knew about (and actually guessed correctly the role, even) based on ATPG chats, but you could have been Buffy herself for all I knew.
classical_hero was based on his entirely scummy vote for me
To be fair, we did get a claim from c_h, it's just that between the two of us we decided that it wasn't much of a loss if he turned out to be innocent, so you went through with it. :P
you could have been Buffy herself for all I knew.
Did none of you pin me as being Buffy? I thought it was obvious after Reenk began implying it in-thread. :P
I'm amused that I actually correctly called you a vampire. Romanic I knew about (and actually guessed correctly the role, even) based on ATPG chats, but you could have been Buffy herself for all I knew.
ATPG talks too much :grin:
Me Buffy? Meh. I was trying to keep a low profile in the thread, to keep the mason team alive, as we were aware that the survivor could be detrimental to his team, specially Drusilla (me): We knew that there's no way Dru would be recruited in a pro-Town team, thanks to Secura's knowledge of the show. And there's also that we couldn't be recruited - I thought that I could catch a mafia recruiter trying to recruit me, if I didn't act pro-Town.
I've failed, if you thought I could be pro-Town.
Did none of you pin me as being Buffy? I thought it was obvious after Reenk began implying it in-thread. :P
At that point I just didn't care much which completely untouchable role you were. Obviously you were one of the main ones, but it didn't much matter to me which as I couldn't do anything about it.
At the end of the game, the two teams stood at:
We would have recruited a few more, but robbiecon missed an order and I ended up a little paranoid about infiltrators so we didn't risk it from then onwards; Angel Investigations recruited everyone except the deceased Fred Burkle/Chaotix.
You forgot to include my limited protections!
You forgot to include my limited protections!
I wasn't made aware that you could protect... :P
Askthepizzaguy
03-05-2011, 10:34
A highly oversimplified and comically self-serving look back at the game, from my perspective.
I would have a neutral role, and accuse myself of working with the vampires while secretly trying to infiltrate the vampires by acting friendly towards them. Then, I would probably tip off the vampires that they shouldn't trust me, because I've been known to double-cross the scums before. It would be my hope that my honesty would get them to trust me, right before I backstab them by publicly revealing who they were.
Something like this actually happened, even after I stated I was going to do this before the game.
Also known as pevergreen's kryptonite. When Askthereenksaguy is born, there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, and eyes will bleed, and children will frown, and ice cream will melt and become all soupy. Fingernails will grow, and there will be a mysterious absence of nail clippers. The incumbency rate in Congress will finally reach 100%. *shudder*
Then, the dark times will come. And on top of a pile of human skulls, there will be two lone figures, laughing at the destruction and misery. It will be glorious.
This also sort of happened, seeing as Reenk and I were on the same team, and there was a pile of bodies....
Come on guys! We must spare the suspected serial killer and destroy someone random for no reason! That's how you guys won Dr. Who in spectacularly amazing and logic-defying fashion.
Bah, you're no fun at all.
In retrospect, this is even funnier, because we had reason to suspect Seon of being a Serial Killer, and no real reason to suspect Link besides his odd "I promise to be active this time" post.... yet, the absolutely reasonless mindless counterwagon was the correct choice, AGAIN, just like the Dr. Who game.... :laugh4:
Vote: Cecil XIX
Yes. :yes:
vote: ATPG
No. :no:
Vote:ATPG He never explained his first vote and then he turned on Sprig since it was convenient for him.
No. :no:
vote: ATPG. One one hand you threaten the town, on the other you say they have to take a stand.
No. :no:
Vote: Cecil XIX
Yes. :yes:
Vote: Cecil XIX
Yes. :yes:
The End.
classical_hero
03-05-2011, 17:23
This is the second game I've been mafia where I have been overruled by team mates, when it would have been prudent. In the CoV game I wanted DE to scan JHT before I got killed by him, but it did not happen. I wanted our group to sire ATPG first, but they said it is not best to target such strong players early in the game. It does seem when I am mafia that I have a knack of seeking out power roles in the town and wanting to do something about it. So if your are mafia with me next time I am mafia around here, which seems to be every second game I've played here, please listen to me, since I have an uncanny knack of finding out who the mafia should be against. Imagine having Dunn as a vampire who is also a kill, so that would have been two kills for us.
It's because your team didn't want to metagame by targeting Pizza straight away. :P
Honestly, I don't think it would have done you much good in the long run anyway, as Pizza was always top of the list of suspects within the town network simply because he knew so much.
Askthepizzaguy
03-05-2011, 17:38
It would have made my vig kills a lot different, that's for sure. It might not have changed the outcome of the game, but it would have prolonged their struggle.
Not game winning by itself, but combined with other good moves and some bad townie ones, it could have made a difference.
classical_hero
03-06-2011, 07:25
And with the town onto pizza instead of me, it would have made a big difference latter on when I could have had more chances to get more team mate, which was pretty much the role of the group.
Askthepizzaguy
03-06-2011, 07:31
Yes. In general, cults are most vulnerable early on, while mafia are more vulnerable later on. Cults start with few members, and expand; mafia start with maximum (usually) and then lose members through death. Lucky vigilante shots cripple early cults, and are one of the few ways to challenge a large cult. It's the only way the Happy Mask Cult was taken down in the Zelda game, with their nine eventual members.
I do think a second (and third, and fourth?) vig might have been overkill, but if both vigs had sloppier aim and both survived longer and/or got recruited, imagine the chaos that would have reigned. Buffy team members and AI team members could have gotten slain. It could have forced Buffy into doing some attacks, thus less protections.... still prolongs the game and causes more chances for the cults to expand.
Game can go from wildly unbalanced to balanced real quick with just a couple of key decision differences. Thus, the game is potentially balanced or unbalanced, but quite chaotic.
classical_hero
03-06-2011, 10:49
I should have been more forceful in my attempts to try and recruit you in the QT.
Diamondeye
03-06-2011, 17:16
This is the second game I've been mafia where I have been overruled by team mates, when it would have been prudent. In the CoV game I wanted DE to scan JHT before I got killed by him, but it did not happen. I wanted our group to sire ATPG first, but they said it is not best to target such strong players early in the game. It does seem when I am mafia that I have a knack of seeking out power roles in the town and wanting to do something about it. So if your are mafia with me next time I am mafia around here, which seems to be every second game I've played here, please listen to me, since I have an uncanny knack of finding out who the mafia should be against. Imagine having Dunn as a vampire who is also a kill, so that would have been two kills for us.
Hmmm. I think I made purely sound calls in that game. You popped by with a big red flag saying "Diamondeye" after you died, though.
Scanning JHT would probably have been a waste. Before he turned SK, it'd be a normal scan. After he turned SK, it'd be a wasted scan. I was scanning for recruits.
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