Stainless Steel 6.4 Hotseat - Wrath of the Khan 2

[Mithridate]

Im no puppet nor traitor, and all Iberia is rightfully ours for having fought off the reconquista. Aragon was our enemy, not yous and therefore our lands by right.
Accept us being the rulers, or wage bloody war. Our path is set and we will not budge from it for anything short of our demands being met, or death.

Our vow is under allah, and unbreakable. Accept termless peace and unification against the Mongols, or destruction awaits.

[Visor]

phonicsmonkey

Someone will need to sub Khwarez

[phonicsmonkey]

Does anyone a) have the pw and b) want to sub for Myth?

[Myth]

Can't you just reset my PW?

[Nightbringer]

I'm on it.

Denmark up! The Celtic Viking
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10056

[phonicsmonkey]

Can't you just reset my PW?

Only when I'm at my computer

[The Celtic Viking]

Done. Zim It's your Fatimids' turn.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10057

[phonicsmonkey]

Visorslash, Cumans are up

[Visor]

Sorry fellas, I had no intention of actually siding with you. :beam: There can only be one Khan!

In other news, the new Khan is dead, and two Mongols stacks are down.

Also, I expect my entire southern front to collapse this turn, but eh, sometimes you gotta take one for the team.

Golden Horde up! phonicsmonkey

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zt2xby

Oh and I took the westernmost fort with a spy as well. I won't post the QT as there is no fun it that now is there?

[Myth]

Mwahahahah! Visorslash the triple agent is it? :laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

Sorry fellas, I had no intention of actually siding with you. :beam: There can only be one Khan!

In other news, the new Khan is dead, and two Mongols stacks are down.

Also, I expect my entire southern front to collapse this turn, but eh, sometimes you gotta take one for the team.

Golden Horde up! phonicsmonkey

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zt2xby

Oh and I took the westernmost fort with a spy as well. I won't post the QT as there is no fun it that now is there?

Hmmph.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

When you can't trust the new players and the turncoats, who can you trust :P

[phonicsmonkey]

I expected Visorslash to betray me eventually, I'm surprised he did it so quickly and with so little gain for your alliance...

EDIT: you know you guys are just making the Khan more wrathful, right? Particularly the dead ones...

[Visor]

When you can't trust the new players and the turncoats, who can you trust :P

To be fair, I had no intention of actually keeping the alliance. It's not my fault if I'm sneakier then a Mongol. :tongue:


EDIT: you know you guys are just making the Khan more wrathful, right? Particularly the dead ones...

Which Khan is it now? :laugh4:

The gain wasn't just for the alliance, it was also for me. (If it suceeded, which, depends on whether you have an army nearby or not, I really, really, really hope not.)

You didn't notice me moving my siege equipment closer to your armies?

[phonicsmonkey]

Which Khan is it now? :laugh4:

I have no idea.


You didn't notice me moving my siege equipment closer to your armies?

I thought you were manouevring to encircle the Rus without them getting suspicious. It crossed my mind that you would betray me but I took a gamble, thinking you'd do it later when I had more at stake. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't..

[Myth]

I am now glad that Visorslash is such a delicious traitor :laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

I am now glad that Visorslash is such a delicious traitor :laugh4:

See what you've done Visorslash? you've gone and made Myth glad...

[phonicsmonkey]

LooseCannon1, Seljuks are up

[LooseCannon1]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

Visorslash was going to betray :deal2: the UAMF ? And had a secret alliance (just like the SoonDead Fatamids) with the Horde:end:? But instead he tricked:elephant: them and is still with us? :cool: :laugh2: :sunny:

[phonicsmonkey]

I don't think it's any secret that this is turning out to be an almost inevitable victory for the UAMF.

The big problem for the Mongols is that under the VCs that I designed I have to take and hold settlements in order to win.

As a horde faction, when I 'take' a settlement I'm given the choice to either sack it and continue (in which case it turns rebel) or to occupy.

If I occupy I immediately have to begin to pay upkeep for my troops. This is some monumental amount of close to 100k per turn, so for me to occupy would basically be to plunge myself into debt immediately and for a very long time. So long in fact that I don't think I could get back into credit for quite some considerable time and only after taking a huge number of cities. Check for yourself by looking at your own cities and income and working out how many of your territories I would need to take to get a positive income of 100+k per turn.

If I go into debt in this way in the meantime I have no money for recruitment or, more crucially, for forts - which, in a game like this with fought battles, is basically a death sentence. Also, if I take a city or two all you need to do to knock me out of the game is to target those two cities and ignore my armies, so it leaves me vulnerable to quick defeat in a huge way.

So, up to now, I've been sacking and moving on, leaving rebel territory behind me.

Initially I was hoping that at some stage I could find a safe-ish area and take a bunch of cities in one go which would minimise the amount of debt and give me a fighting chance.

However, with the world against me and getting closer I don't think that is realistic.

What I'm faced with now is basically a situation where if I can't eliminate all of the opposing factions I have no chance of winning.

Expert as I am at this game (:clown:) I don't think that's going to happen somehow...

So, I'd like to propose a change to the VCs as follows:

Mongols:

-Hold or turn rebel 50 provinces including Kiev and Cairo.

OR

- Hold or turn rebel 25 provinces including three of Budapest, Cracow, Benghazi and Constantinople.

OR

- Hold or turn rebel 15 provinces including two of Rome, Frankfurt, Tripoli and Lubeck.

Non-Mongols:

- Outlast the Mongols and capture an 15 additional provinces from one or more human non-Mongol players.

OR

- Capture and hold at least 3 Mongol cities or cities that the Mongols have turned rebel and take 27 additional provinces from one or more human non-Mongol players before the Mongols win the game.

I realise that of course this gives me a better chance to win and you guys might feel that having me virtually beaten at this stage you don't want to do this, and I'm fine if that's the decision, but I thought I'd put this out there in case you are agreable as it will make the rest of the game much more fun for me and will provide a genuine challenge for you rather than the cakewalk that is about to take place.

Whatever the decision I will of course play on - I'm really enjoying this game even though the position for me seems hopeless in terms of winning.

[LooseCannon1]

I vote no to change in victory conditions. The secret to making money with the Mongols in SS istake every city from Urgench to Gaza:laugh4: then you have a chance. You should have steamrollered Myth, Visor and me from the beginning. by playing as conservatively as you did it's given everyone else the time we need to win. I'm doing a "timur" and claiming victory for me when my allies win this game :2thumbsup: :yes: :laugh4: even though I will be long dead.


France up (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10067)

oh, and those forts you built look so nice with a big green banner flying over them:smash:

[phonicsmonkey]

I vote no to change in victory conditions. The secret to making money with the Mongols in SS istake every city from Urgench to Gaza:laugh4: then you have a chance. You should have steamrollered Myth, Visor and me from the beginning.

It's a fair point but easier said than done except against the AI in SP.

By the way I was (and am) trying to steamroller over you and Myth, but with the Cumans I decided to play defensive to secure my 'landing zone' for reinforcements. In a game where battles can be fought I decided I couldn't afford to leave my forces exposed to you guys, otherwise you would have wiped them out with just a few stacks of your own.

And if I ever got to Gaza I would have been several hundred thousand in debt. That's a big hole to climb out of when you have the ERE to contend with.

I'm not claiming I played this perfectly - I just think I set it up wrong to begin with.

You guys will most likely win either way, so I'm fine if everyone ends up agreeing with you.

EDIT: I should also point out that, unless I settle, no-one on your team could win the game under the 2nd alternative set of VCs for non-Mongol factions as they currently stand

[Nightbringer]

I vote in favor of the rule change, I want a desperate struggle!

[Thanatos Eclipse]

When you say 'turn rebel', does it still count for you if it is retaken by someone else?

[phonicsmonkey]

When you say 'turn rebel', does it still count for you if it is retaken by someone else?

Up for debate I suppose, but given the corresponding VC for non-Mongols I would say it doesn't count

[Myth]

I took the K-Shah over from the AI with so many useless armies that I didn't have money for forts either, nor did I have money for siege weapon recruitment. After the initial turns at least. I figured disbanding armies would have been even worse for me but no, not really. Since the Mongols start with 9 out 10 generals having NF and I had only one guy with NF who could lead my troops in the main country.

So I was forced to array my armies like nice little ducklings, no forts, only one NF general, and you took them out. Had I disbanded half of them to get the income to build forts and siege weapons after the first few turns, you would have still killed them because yours are free and you can afford to play the waiting game until you haul your trebs over, plus you're furst in the TO, plus you have traits for extra movement points.

The Mongols have tremendous advantage over any one faction on the map that has not been player lead up until their arrival. However I don't think it's plausible for you to beat every single human player when allied against you. Even with Zim's formidable Fatamids on your side and trouble in the west, you're still out gunned. And that won't change if you stay as a horde faction forever since you have no way of recruiting new armies once your starting ones get whittled down. However, 100,000 in upkeep, average of 300 upkeep per turn, means you have 330 units, which makes approximately 16 full stacks. I don't think that any one of the three immediate neighbors can hope to contend with those, since those are stacks with elite units and high chevrons, and lead by 10 star/10 dread generals.

I do think however, that you will not be able to steamroll the world with 16 stacks, horde or not being horde. You have to have a way of recruiting more. The AI gets 1 000 000 florins in vanilla if i remember correctly, so it can retrain and recruit. Perhaps getting financial injections of 200,000 or more via admin console for each target city you take? Of course you must hold it and not let it turn rebel.

[Mithridate]

Why on earth was it made so that sacking = turn rebel?

I agree with Myth, but vote on lowering it to 100.000

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I'm going to need a few hours extension on this one, too much studying tonight, and I won't get off of work tomorrow till after the turn is due.

[phonicsmonkey]

I do think however, that you will not be able to steamroll the world with 16 stacks, horde or not being horde. You have to have a way of recruiting more. The AI gets 1 000 000 florins in vanilla if i remember correctly, so it can retrain and recruit. Perhaps getting financial injections of 200,000 or more via admin console for each target city you take? Of course you must hold it and not let it turn rebel.

I agree, but in the context of this particular game I prefer my suggestion to restore some balance - what do you think of that Myth?

I think for a possible WotK3, whoever is playing the Mongols will need more help in some way or another. Either cash injections on settling, easier VCs or maybe a script mod that provides for more reinforcements. Or some combination of all of them.

I think this format of game has the potential to be great fun but needs a bit of tweaking.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

given the corresponding VC for non-Mongols I would say it doesn't count

I have no problem with the rule change that way, I'll vote for it


4983
The Moors really need to stop leaving their toys laying around, I had to stomp over a few trebs to avoid tripping :P

[Myth]

Sure, I agree with the changes.

[Mithridate]

The Moors really need to stop leaving their toys laying around, I had to stomp over a few trebs to avoid tripping :P
But there's just so MANY of them :D

[LooseCannon1]

It's a fair point but easier said than done except against the AI in SP.

By the way I was (and am) trying to steamroller over you and Myth, but with the Cumans I decided to play defensive to secure my 'landing zone' for reinforcements. In a game where battles can be fought I decided I couldn't afford to leave my forces exposed to you guys, otherwise you would have wiped them out with just a few stacks of your own.

And if I ever got to Gaza I would have been several hundred thousand in debt. That's a big hole to climb out of when you have the ERE to contend with.That's the conundrum of playing the Mongols. There are 2 major historical problems with the way they're set up in SS. First, they had the richness of China to fund their armies-which were no where near as expensive as western armies (knights, etc) were. Second, they actuallywon most battles/wars by their superior troop quality, not quantity. Superior quality, technology, tactics, etc-everything but superior number of men.


I'm not claiming I played this perfectly - I just think I set it up wrong to begin with. No one plays it perfectly, I think you still could have moved faster against us. Like Myth, my armies were screwed up at start with poor composition and minimal progress by the AI in the game. I debated disbanding many units and only by my deciding to keep my numerous siege weapons do i have a chance of helping my team. I needed way more turns (than one) to get them together. You gave me the chance


You guys will most likely win either way, so I'm fine if everyone ends up agreeing with you.

EDIT: I should also point out that, unless I settle, no-one on your team could win the game under the 2nd alternative set of VCs for non-Mongol factions as they currently standI never considered the second set of VCs when joining this game I expected to be the second knocked out (after Kwazzies) but could do what I did which was delay you as long as possible. In fact I was going into debt and being financed by everyone else before Zim decided to betray us (the team) and attacked me. I was 65K florins in debt at last turn start.:laugh4: My only strategy left is to throw what I can at you and take out your generals.
The battle where I killed Genghis I actually lost but I achived my objective.
I always thought one of our western factions would win but only after a combined effort to destroy the Mongols.


edit: I believe you can only win with the first revised VC. You'll never reach the target cities of the second and third. Also the non-Mongol VCs should read that you must retain your original starting cities.:yes:

[phonicsmonkey]

edit: I believe you can only win with the first revised VC. You'll never reach the target cities of the second and third. Also the non-Mongol VCs should read that you must retain your original starting cities.:yes:

I believe so too - although, as you point out, I haven't played perfectly so it might have been possible with a different strategy from the beginning.

Good point re: the non-Mongol VCs but I would further refine it to say you must keep the same number of territories as your starting amount, plus the extra requirements. Not the exact same starting cities.

[slysnake]

Will play my turn either tonight or tomorrow morning :)

[slysnake]

I'm going on holiday tomorrow for a week - if I am late playing my turn (48 hours) assume I have no internet access, although, apparently, there SHOULD be. In the event I am late playing my turn, I designate @Thatatos Eclipse as my sub :) ( Myth I would have let you sub me but I think Thanatos has a better idea of whats happening in the west right now! ^^)

[slysnake]

UK up! Rougeman

http://www.sendspace.com/file/kgq0mp

The Roman emissary stands to make an announcement:

"My Kaiser wishes to announce that, whilst the Pope is - yet again - without a home after he lost his latest one in North Africa, that the anger of other nations shall not be brought upon us. Our war with the Pope has been ongoing since our unfair excommunication and subsequent seizure of Rome from the Papacy, and so we hope that all current relationships will all other nations in Europe shall remain the same. Good day!"

[Rougeman]

5059

[SilverShield]

alright guys i was out of town the last days so im good with some extension here. i got this up later today or early tomorrow. thx

[SilverShield]

man those rounds are epic. was a decisive one. major offensive against the fatimids in the holy land. and finally some real field battles again. basically the entire holy land now has been freed. just the right moment with the mongols proceeding

moors
http://depositfiles.com/files/j8e8pa9ea



im good if u d change the rules so the mongols have a shot a victory. and if we d start a new wotk later that year we are better off if we set fixed teams right away then for this one. mongos, fatis and seljerks vs the world. seljerks man still fun tribute to Quirl who came up with that once. those seljerks. man where is this kid again already wasnt he back? hes off again now? he always been fun he had this lil hyper attitude people like that are always entertaining. my neighbor two floors down is a lil hyper doll shes always on the edge 24 7 all the way from euphoric high to desperate low while preserving a childish look at the world. man some people are just more innocent with a childish soul kinda even when they grownass adults already they less torn from life they still see more good than bad im digging that. a 24 year all girl with the mentality of a teen and the body of woman. way fun and all legal how about that huh but anyways. btw i was in favor of an epic east vs the world for this game also but whatever tho the way we went off the mongols had a serious problem right away as they are less strong than in the broken crescent and the west was and basically still is out as they simply too far away. actually im sure france is happy that there was this moorish attack. but anyway so far i did enjoy this game. had lots of good moments with my romans already. from sea to shining sea

[Mithridate]

Sorry its late, please allow me an extension

will play and post once i wake up...
Seems like the powers that be have united against me, even England who gave me his word by the looks of things.

Seems like me keeping the current borders is not approved... Well, its gonna be one glorious fight!

[phonicsmonkey]

Take 'em all out Mithridate!

[Mithridate]

They number like the stars...

Seems like ill be joining you after all Mongol, it shall be decided on the next turn.
Playing in a sec, gota play a turn on TWC first

[Mithridate]

They number like the stars...

Seems like ill be joining you after all Mongol, it shall be decided on the next turn.
Playing in a sec, gota play a turn on TWC first

Edit: now thats interesting, double post one hour later?
Im almost done with this^^

Playing

[Mithridate]

kiev Nightbringer
All Moors hunker down to defend what is rightfully ours, no matter how many infidels may come to visit us on our doorstep we will hold the line!

This can end only in three ways:
The complete destruction of our mighty nation
The utter subjugation of the vile french
Acceptance of the current borders
My god, i hate ABC endings >.<

Until then, there shall be much bloodshed and honor for the Moorish! The nation who defied all of Europe united in arms!

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Actual, this will only end with the complete destruction of one of our nations. I feel France has already made our feelings on the other outcomes quite clear. In all fairness France warned you that your belligerent ways were not in the best interest of the Anti Mongol League, we even tried forgiveness, but you would have none of it. Now you shall pay for your arrogance.

[Nightbringer]

kiev Nightbringer
All Moors hunker down to defend what is rightfully ours, no matter how many infidels may come to visit us on our doorstep we will hold the line!

This can end only in three ways:
The complete destruction of our mighty nation
The utter subjugation of the vile french
Acceptance of the current borders
My god, i hate ABC endings >.<

Until then, there shall be much bloodshed and honor for the Moorish! The nation who defied all of Europe united in arms!

Wait and see which color gets destroyed!

Will play my turn later. :)

[Mithridate]

Actual, this will only end with the complete destruction of one of our nations .
Granted, but the destroy option have two Flavors!


Wait and see which color gets destroyed!

If it was between Blue red and green id be crying at this point :)
I need to get over it... Bah

Those of you who get the reference... I am Marauder shields reincarnate!

[Rougeman]

...even England who gave me his word by the looks of things...

you really think that i would abandon my ally for an infidel who is intent on taking over europe?

[Mithridate]

you really think that i would abandon my ally for an infidel who is intent on taking over europe?
In short? Yes, you gave us your word.

Taking over Europe? Who is spreading these delusions >.<
The moors have nothing more to say for honorless puppets with delusions of grandeur.

[Rougeman]

In short? Yes, you gave us your word.

Taking over Europe? Who is spreading these delusions >.<
The moors have nothing more to say for honorless puppets with delusions of grandeur.


you betrayed france who was part of the anti-mongol pact, you basically declared on an ally, or if you want a partner in a war, thus breaking your "word"

This war was basically for you to gain france so you could gain more lands and become unstoppable, if the french let the cities be given to you, you wouldve just used the extra income to fight the french anyway.

[Nightbringer]

khwarezmians up Myth
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10095

[Myth]

Just have someone from the AML sub me, cuz i'll be back on Monday.

[Visor]

Myth
phonicsmonkey

[phonicsmonkey]

Anyone volunteering to sub him? I could do it but...:devil:

[Nightbringer]

Nighty to the rescue!
phonicsmonkey
Myth
send me the pm and I'm on it.

[phonicsmonkey]

Nightbringer

here it is without the pw

[Myth]

I'm back btw. Perhaps I should play it?

Nightbringer phonicsmonkey

[phonicsmonkey]

Please go ahead Myth

[Myth]

Denmark up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10109) The Celtic Viking

[The Celtic Viking]

Done. Zim Fatimids are up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10110)

[Zim]

Hey guys. I'll have a lot to catch up on this turn, can I get a few extra hours in the morning to finish?

Cumans!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10115

[Visor]

Retreat false Khan, these lands are not yours!

phonicsmonkey

http://www.sendspace.com/file/jlo7ue

[phonicsmonkey]

ermmmm.....no?

LooseCannon1, Seljuks are up

I killed a bunch of turks again this turn.

I'm sure it doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things but I count 13 territories which have been turned rebel by my horde and not yet recaptured by the AML.

[slysnake]

Are there any spare slots in this game? RexLegend wanted to know :)

[LooseCannon1]

That's the UAMF, False Khan. And those territories don't matter right now. All that matters is your destruction :smash:. France up (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10119) Thanatos Eclipse

[phonicsmonkey]

That's the UAMF, False Khan.

Ah yes - the Anti-Mongol League was my own group in the first WotK :laugh4:

I may be destroyed, but you Seljuks won't live to see it...at least not in any meaningful way

[Thanatos Eclipse]

slysnake

5290

[slysnake]

UK! Rougeman http://www.sendspace.com/file/6de90a

[Rougeman]

ERE

[SilverShield]

theres 8 major mongol armies in the area already plus 5 egyptian. alright thats impressive. i can imagine an epic standoff between the alliance and the mongo club

moors up
http://depositfiles.com/files/0v2pcps2l

[slysnake]

bump..

[SilverShield]

i sent a pm on the 29

[phonicsmonkey]

Skipped, sorry Mithridate

Nightbringer, Rus

[Nightbringer]

kwazzies up! Myth
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10145

[Mithridate]

*insert very bad curseword here*

My own fault Phonics, but ty... severe dip of activity lately, especially here.
Will cost me a region i reccon, hope no severe foothold is gained as id prolly get overwhelmed then ;)

I hereby offer an alliance phonicsmonkey the men of the west are all mad, forcing us into your embrace. We know Mongol held territory prosper in a golden age... we shall strife towards such things, for now there can only be war however. We shall fight, worst come to worst and we shall die well!

[phonicsmonkey]

Bump...Myth?

[Myth]

Ooops, I had missed that one and I was away for the weekend. Will do it tonight.

Denmark up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10152) The Celtic Viking

[The Celtic Viking]

Did someone forget to update the turn number or what happened? Last one I got was numbered 18 as well. Doing my thing now anyway, so I hope it's just some mistake/misunderstanding in naming and not in game.

There wasn't much for me to do anyway so I just hurried through and it's done now. Zim: Here it is for the Fatimid Khalif. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10156)

[Myth]

Yeah, I think I made a mess of the turn numbers last time. I had to play way too many at once and I had slept only a few hours.

[Zim]

Hey guys. Some work stuff came up that will prevent me getting this done in a timely manner.

If phonicsmonkey has the time he's welcome to sub, or my turn can be skipped if needed. :bow:

[phonicsmonkey]

sorry guys, there's really no way I'm going to be able to do this

maybe Mithridate can sub for Zim?

[slysnake]

sorry guys, there's really no way I'm going to be able to do this

maybe Mithridate can sub for Zim?

Bump Mithridate can you sub? :)

[Myth]

I have skipped the Fatamids due to both Zim and Phonicsmonkey being unavailable. The show must go on, though I'd see it as good sportsmanship if you guys did not attack the Eggies this turn.

Cumans up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10164) Visorslash

[SilverShield]

whats the matter here guys? just asking

[phonicsmonkey]

Apologies to all - I could skip Visorslash but it's my turn next and I knew I could not do it. Might be able to get it done tonight.

[phonicsmonkey]

LooseCannon1, Seljuks are up

That treb at Tabriz was defeated in battle and can't move.

[LooseCannon1]

Sorry, going to need an extra day on this.

[LooseCannon1]

That treb at Tabriz was defeated in battle and can't move.Aww, you didn't think that was the only siege weapon I had nearby, did you?~;) Berkei the Pious sleeps with his ancestors or whatever pagan infidels do after they get crushed:smash:

France up! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10186) go get 'em Thanatos Eclipse

[phonicsmonkey]

Aww, you didn't think that was the only siege weapon I had nearby, did you?~;) Berkei the Pious sleeps with his ancestors or whatever pagan infidels do after they get crushed:smash:

Well, I hoped so...but you can never be sure, right?

[Thanatos Eclipse]

slysnake

5814

[slysnake]

UK is up, Rougeman!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2aifws

[Rougeman]

5823

[SilverShield]

im probably good with some extension here just did my turn in the cog game and im too busy for another one now. man weeks of no turn at all here and now they both up at the same time

[SilverShield]

alright moors up
http://depositfiles.com/files/1qdld3p25

[Mithridate]

Please have patience, pm sent to admin

[slysnake]

Turn replayed, UK Rougeman! http://www.sendspace.com/file/r08z05

[Rougeman]

Eastern Romans

[SilverShield]

man the whole thing again that was 2 major battles. i got this up tomorrow

[SilverShield]

alright moors up
http://depositfiles.com/files/c0ynzivhr

[Mithridate]

Lets see what i can do

Really wish i could replay turn before the replay as id sink the HRE army and a couple fleets, no idea what i was thinking! xD
No matter, we are all but human... Shall play asap

[Mithridate]

Kiev Nightbringer


destroyed forted HRE army in a fort with opening gates n cav army, used the spy to the north of the fort to infiltrate as the first thing i did.
Retook palma, bribed a HRE fort, took french castle and cursed over the folly of my last turn leaving ships n troops in the open for awesome movementrange ships nto carrying troops like mine^^

Nice to see once self increase in skill after each turn, makes sense since its so far between them :D
Tho, a good thing as there soo much to do -.-'


Turn back foolish europeans, Iberia is death to the faithless!

[Zim]

Bump

Nightbringer

[Nightbringer]

I'm having some really annoying intermittent internet problems here, and I can't get anything to finish uploading, so I can't post a save. I will try again tomorrow morning, but if that doesn't work anyone who hates the mongols and fatimids can sub for me. I should be able to send out my PW

edit:
fixed now!

khwarezmians up!
Myth
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10218

[Zim]

Bump

Myth

[Myth]

Thanks, I'll play this today. If Monkey got my last army I'd rather set the K-Shah to Ai however. At least the AI will never get broke in SS, so it will give him more trouble.

Denmark up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10225)

In a desparate attempt, the last remaining Kwarezmian soldiers assaulted a Mongol fort and slaughtered nearly a full army of horse-archers. Another brave host, lead by the Shah himself, followed word of a waiting ambush and sprang on the Mongols during the cover of nightfall. The fight was fierce and only luck had it that the Mongol horsemen were able to slay the leader of our empire. Most all our men foguht to the end, and our own horse archers laid waste to the enemy army. Though the Mongol force survives in tatters, it shall not be a problem for our bretheren from the west.

With the fall of the Shah, so comes an end to the organized Kwarezmian resistance, though our citadels and cities will still prove to be obstacles in the way of the enemy. Go with the blessings of Allah, and avenge our once great nation!

[phonicsmonkey]

In a desparate attempt, the last remaining Kwarezmian soldiers assaulted a Mongol fort and slaughtered nearly a full army of horse-archers. Another brave host, lead by the Shah himself, followed word of a waiting ambush and sprang on the Mongols during the cover of nightfall. The fight was fierce and only luck had it that the Mongol horsemen were able to slay the leader of our empire. Most all our men foguht to the end, and our own horse archers laid waste to the enemy army. Though the Mongol force survives in tatters, it shall not be a problem for our bretheren from the west.

With the fall of the Shah, so comes an end to the organized Kwarezmian resistance, though our citadels and cities will still prove to be obstacles in the way of the enemy. Go with the blessings of Allah, and avenge our once great nation!

Yay, I beat one faction!

The Celtic Viking are you going to play or can someone else sub you?

[The Celtic Viking]

I was planning to play but I had no idea it was my turn. Doing it now...

[The Celtic Viking]

Fatimid Khalifate up, Zim

WotK2-19-Fatimid (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10227)

[phonicsmonkey]

Hey The Celtic Viking, congratulations on your tournament win!

[The Celtic Viking]

Thank you, phonicsmonkey. :bow:

[LooseCannon1]

Gentlemen, you will need to find a replacement player for the Turks or you can simply turn the faction AI. They have very little left but my interests in hotseats have ended. Despite the slow pace here, they've been fun. And unlike twcenter, I've got nothing but good thoughts about all of you here. Unfortunately, one person's actions there have removed all the entertainment value of hotseats and M2TW and the best course for me is to leave both forums. It's not something I do lightly, as it's taken weeks to get to this point. Goodbye.

[phonicsmonkey]

Gentlemen, you will need to find a replacement player for the Turks or you can simply turn the faction AI. They have very little left but my interests in hotseats have ended. Despite the slow pace here, they've been fun. And unlike twcenter, I've got nothing but good thoughts about all of you here. Unfortunately, one person's actions there have removed all the entertainment value of hotseats and M2TW and the best course for me is to leave both forums. It's not something I do lightly, as it's taken weeks to get to this point. Goodbye.

Ok, I'll bite - what happened?

[Mithridate]

*snip*
Im very sorry to hear that loose, with your permission im allowed to explain as far as im able?

Either way, i understand and sincerely hope to see your return and that said person improves on his behaviour.
This forum is damn slow, but a much much better place to be and ive only got good things to say about people here.

The lack of action by admins whom seemingly do not share our view on the forums clear rules of conduct is appalling

Edit: Zim indeed its on TWC forum, here its top notch from top to bottom as far as i can tell

[Zim]

Sorry for the wait, I'll have this up tonight. Depending how little I have left it might become more efficient to turn Egypt AI so I don't drag down game speed.

I'm sorry to hear that, LooseCannon1. If there's anything I can do shoot me a pm. :bow:

Mithridate, to clarify the problems with the admins was something that happened elsewhere and not here?

[Zim]

Just about dead.

Cumans

phonicsmonkey

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10229

[phonicsmonkey]

Just about dead.

Cumans

phonicsmonkey



https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10229

Cumans are Visorslash aren't they?

[Zim]

Sorry, I keep thinking you're the one who skips them. :clown:

[LooseCannon1]

it's better if I go ahead and explain, but Mith you're welcome to add any remarks.

Once upon a time, (over at the net) there was a hotseat called Retrofit 2. Created by Vasilefs, (who is not known for his game naming skills) it was the first game where player order was changed to match the time zones from east to west. After the first round of fights (arguments) I joined the game as Venice (turn 11 or 12). A few turns later I was appointed admin (probably the fourth one:dizzy2:) and I got it moving. Players came and went. Vasilefs actually played 3 different factions (coming and going) Venice, HRE, and Russia. The game almost died in December as players left but 2 months later we got it going again. Then, in March,one player (Egypt, during a jihad) used an illegal move against Russia (guess who). He was told to replay and refused and threatened to quit. Originally, the December stall following discussion over the HRE player using a similar move (guess who) during a crusade. I didn't want to lose the Egypt player as i respect him as one of the best players in this game. After some nasty PMs to me this player showed how how the HRE player cheated back then (4+ months?). HRE had obviously reloaded before reloading was legal. So I rewrote the Crusade/Jihad movement rule to require 2/3 movement points must be used to the target. despite his refusal to replay I then went ahead with the game.

Now to the end of June. A long term NAP between Egypt and Venice ends with a massive attack by Egypt, claiming that Venice's refusal to hand over territory to extend the NAP was dangerous to HIM~:confused: The Venetian Doge (me) calls him "paranoid schizophinic" in the thread and he goes "boinkers". He insults me, Mithridate and a 3rd player beyond the level of roleplaying and I order him to apologize or I'll kick him from the game. Personal insults are a rule-breaker and I've stood by and watched this guy do this to too many people. He then goes to one of the former admins (not Vasilefs) and gets that person to send the password to somebody else so they can play on while kicking me out.

I could post a list of people I believe left hotseats because of him and despite my willingness to stick out a fight to the end, the bile in my mouth forces me to quit. I'm too weak to just come here and play. I know I'd end up over there and all hell would break loose again.

I hope this wasn't too long and wordy. This post took me about an hour to type up, I'm that slow. If Mithridate or Visorslash wish to comment (or anybody) go ahead.

[Visor]

it's better if I go ahead and explain, but Mith you're welcome to add any remarks.

Once upon a time, (over at the net) there was a hotseat called Retrofit 2. Created by Vasilefs, (who is not known for his game naming skills) it was the first game where player order was changed to match the time zones from east to west. After the first round of fights (arguments) I joined the game as Venice (turn 11 or 12). A few turns later I was appointed admin (probably the fourth one:dizzy2:) and I got it moving. Players came and went. Vasilefs actually played 3 different factions (coming and going) Venice, HRE, and Russia. The game almost died in December as players left but 2 months later we got it going again. Then, in March,one player (Egypt, during a jihad) used an illegal move against Russia (guess who). He was told to replay and refused and threatened to quit. Originally, the December stall following discussion over the HRE player using a similar move (guess who) during a crusade. I didn't want to lose the Egypt player as i respect him as one of the best players in this game. After some nasty PMs to me this player showed how how the HRE player cheated back then (4+ months?). HRE had obviously reloaded before reloading was legal. So I rewrote the Crusade/Jihad movement rule to require 2/3 movement points must be used to the target. despite his refusal to replay I then went ahead with the game.

Now to the end of June. A long term NAP between Egypt and Venice ends with a massive attack by Egypt, claiming that Venice's refusal to hand over territory to extend the NAP was dangerous to HIM~:confused: The Venetian Doge (me) calls him "paranoid schizophinic" in the thread and he goes "boinkers". He insults me, Mithridate and a 3rd player beyond the level of roleplaying and I order him to apologize or I'll kick him from the game. Personal insults are a rule-breaker and I've stood by and watched this guy do this to too many people. He then goes to one of the former admins (not Vasilefs) and gets that person to send the password to somebody else so they can play on while kicking me out.

I could post a list of people I believe left hotseats because of him and despite my willingness to stick out a fight to the end, the bile in my mouth forces me to quit. I'm too weak to just come here and play. I know I'd end up over there and all hell would break loose again.

I hope this wasn't too long and wordy. This post took me about an hour to type up, I'm that slow. If Mithridate or Visorslash wish to comment (or anybody) go ahead.

Let me guess, Invicta?

Just checked, and I seem to be right. He was the worst thing to happen to the community. He's got a kill list doesn't he...

[Mithridate]

Well, "beyond the level or roleplay?" there is no such thing imho, if there where id say your joke about the caliph being a schizophrenic too far as they barely knew what that would be at the time if at all :) But he did jump in and out of character with responses and they where all very rude as well as very offensive.

All within the spoiler is me voicing opinion on the matter, it has nothing to do with this hotseat or even forum therefore the spoiler
He has a tricky personality and his sometimes borderline view on things can cause great strife making players leave. He can do great things to others and especially new players, but can be extremely despicable to anyone who argue against him on any level. Its a war game, deception is to be expected but insult does not belong in any but in comical rp manner.

So here to the big problems, while projecting a "good guy" aura he plays to his own advantage by any means necessary and i believe some get really ticked off by it, when they then start arguing about some action they or he has made you run into the main issues, He usually is extremely rude and have a big problem distinguishing between player and character.

Ive been called a liar, hypocrite, dirty player, bias, dishonest, dirty cheater ( i may have deserved that, deliberately abused giving a region, gave it twice extra... disbanded my own troops tho ) to mention a few. These have been clear cut direct to me with name, yet never have an admin even responded... this is not even touching the common insinuations and libelous language.

After these last "arguments" he seem to have attempted to clarify between player and character... i hope he keeps that up and starts abiding to terms of conduct for he can be really helpful. I respect him, he can bring a lot to hotseating to say the least... but this does not come near to weighing up the troubles and his tendencies.

[Nightbringer]

Anyway, I would rather not go too much further on this. It is understandable to have had issues with another player and want to vent, but I'd rather keep the throne room from becoming the venting room. :)

[Mithridate]

I can sub the Cumans as their ally and ty for the understanding NB, i shall keep it in mind in the future.
But since im pretty much the only way he can expand it may be better for someone else to sub.

phonicsmonkey

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm not sure it needs subbing, Visorslash was just here, isn't he going to play then?

[Myth]

It seems to me that players are getting increasingly more disgruntled with the TWC. It hosts all the cool mods and has a huge user base, and also Lusted and friends who are now all-powerful employees of CA.

However people report a much more hostile and at times, juvenile community there, and the hotseat games seem to be riddled with cheating, bickering and a fair amount of bias.

I've been thinking, recently players here have been complaining on the slowness of .org hotseats and I recognize the issue as a real one. I think part of that is due to the relatively small community that we are - most players participate in several games at once, and we have periods of quiet and then sudden influxes of 5 turns coming up in two days. If we have more players we will have more games, less impact on the individual player to play in more games than he can currently handle. Because things change IRL and sometimes one needs to cut a few games loose, but if he's one of the few players available in the community, they might feel guilty about it.

We've had a recent change in staff here, and I believe that once things get settled, Nightbringer will help usher games along and push them past choke points and delays. Once the summer is over we will get more players and more time to play, and If you guys bring TWC players that you enjoy playing with, I think we can grow the TR into the best HS community on the web.

btw, is this the same guy who argued with me about AR?

[Nightbringer]

It seems to me that players are getting increasingly more disgruntled with the TWC. It hosts all the cool mods and has a huge user base, and also Lusted and friends who are now all-powerful employees of CA.

However people report a much more hostile and at times, juvenile community there, and the hotseat games seem to be riddled with cheating, bickering and a fair amount of bias.

I've been thinking, recently players here have been complaining on the slowness of .org hotseats and I recognize the issue as a real one. I think part of that is due to the relatively small community that we are - most players participate in several games at once, and we have periods of quiet and then sudden influxes of 5 turns coming up in two days. If we have more players we will have more games, less impact on the individual player to play in more games than he can currently handle. Because things change IRL and sometimes one needs to cut a few games loose, but if he's one of the few players available in the community, they might feel guilty about it.

We've had a recent change in staff here, and I believe that once things get settled, Nightbringer will help usher games along and push them past choke points and delays. Once the summer is over we will get more players and more time to play, and If you guys bring TWC players that you enjoy playing with, I think we can grow the TR into the best HS community on the web.

btw, is this the same guy who argued with me about AR?

He was involved way back in that debate and the cross forum games.

I think another real strength the throne room is coming up with interesting game ideas, as exemplified by the Arena of Kings myth is running. I think once that gets done with, we will have an awesome new game to advertise!

In any case, I agree that it would be great to bring in some people from the .net. Everyone should always feel free to invite people you know over there, and once I am used to moderating I will probably try a few things for recruitment, including advertising said arena of kings game.

[Mithridate]

Im gona start studying to become an engineer next month and are trying to cut down on my dozen hotseats...

But count me in, should a new hotseat arise here :D
( i promise ill get at least one other TWC member as well )

More regarding diff forum, sorry for the venting NB :)

However people report a much more hostile and at times, juvenile community there, and the hotseat games seem to be riddled with cheating, bickering and a fair amount of bias.
This is true, but theres several shining lights there as well. The major thing about the TWC for me is that its much bigger and competitive!
Sadly, competitive brings out the worst of people it seem... But my overall impression of TWC is still good, the hotseating great.

Its just these few instances are absolutely horrid and costing the community players while not being dealt with or rebutted when wrongfully called into question.

[Myth]

I really don't see how we can have a truly competitive environment in TW hotseats. As they stand, they are fairly imbalanced between factions, turn order and type of battles. Anyway the good players really show. Play a few games that have massive scale conflicts and you'll see who the efficient and cunning guys are and who are the ones who prefer to turtle and roleplay.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with trying to go for a more competitive environment. Hence me starting CoG!, which is a team battles game and basically removes diplomacy from the scene. I think the .org veterans enjoy both RP heavy FFAs and competitive team games (or just regular total war type competitive games). I also think that the condition of "eliminate all other human factions" has lagged behind and is now an artefact of the past as well as SP games. When the game drags on and two factions are left, and nothing but slow and boring 30 turns of grinding remain, people get bored.

IMO HS games have evolved to the point where interesting rules/victory conditions and the starting 15-20 turns of the game are what is really interesting and hooks people up. I personally would not turn down a deathmatch offer (and that is as competitive as you can get), but who has fun with those?

[Mithridate]

*Snip*
Agreed, also: CoG is great fun tho i do think it needs polishing!

Gona be damn interesting to see if we can beat you!
If venice falls, i think odds are in our favor ;)

[Visor]

I'm playing! Don't sub me.

[Visor]

6368Peace offered to Mongols.

phonicsmonkey

[slysnake]

6368Peace offered to Mongols.

phonicsmonkey

I take it you know the implications of siding with the mongols? ~;)

[phonicsmonkey]

Parisian Knights, Thanatos Eclipse

Turned Turks to AI, sorry to see you go LooseCannon1, come back soon

Well played Myth! Glad I could see off at least one faction...

[LooseCannon1]

Turned Turks to AI, sorry to see you go LooseCannon1, come back soon
It turns out that reports of my "demise" were premature.:laugh4: i'm not going anywhere. I have decided to stay and play here. The Turks were very near the end with only 2 cities and deep in debt and few units to fight with so don't worry about turning them back human. They became depressing to play.

Visorslash Were my clues too obvious? Second, about that "Peace offered to Mongols":furious2:WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? Go get him UAMF!!

Myth I agree. Most mods are severely imbalanced. Only SS and KGCM are really usable for hotseats. It may be more worthwhile to set up teams at start of a game. If done by lot the mix can change from game to game. The same people won't always be able to work together. That would make things more interesting. I'll try and recruit some people from twc. (not invicta:laugh2:) And when CoG ends I'll explain how and why I knew last November that the "Muslim Brotherhood" would win.

Nightbringer Sorry about bringing that venting over here. I was just so tired and depressed over the crap over there.

Mithridate I'll admit he's not paranoid if you tell me how to get from Thessalonica to Iraklion in one turn with siege weapons in Retrofit.:laugh4:

[Visor]

I'm not siding with the Mongols. I just want peace with them so I can build up more armies to wipe them out.

[Myth]

I'm not siding with the Mongols. I just want peace with them so I can build up more armies to wipe them out.

Nothing to see here ponicsmonkey, move along.

LooseCannon1: really? You knew your team would win back then? I purpousfully delayed my growth and siege works development to go bail out Spain and capture Cordoba ASAP, however I think the others played very well, especially NB who held off the front alone for so long. Letting SilverShield eat the AI without molestation was not a very sound decision on our part, but we're not gone yet!

I think the biggest mistake was leaving central Europe to the AI, which meant Hamburg is easy to take and a corridor to England is available.

[LooseCannon1]

LooseCannon1: really? You knew your team would win back then? I purpousfully delayed my growth and siege works development to go bail out Spain and capture Cordoba ASAP, however I think the others played very well, especially NB who held off the front alone for so long. Letting SilverShield eat the AI without molestation was not a very sound decision on our part, but we're not gone yet!

I think the biggest mistake was leaving central Europe to the AI, which meant Hamburg is easy to take and a corridor to England is available.You appear to have done exactly what I thought you would do. I had siege weapons but you never got close enough for me to use them.

My "sent messsages" file is empty somehow or I would post a copy of PMs sent back then.

[Nightbringer]

You appear to have done exactly what I thought you would do. I had siege weapons but you never got close enough for me to use them.

My "sent messsages" file is empty somehow or I would post a copy of PMs sent back then.

Glad to have you back so soon loosecannon!

[Mithridate]

Mithridate I'll admit he's not paranoid if you tell me how to get from Thessalonica to Iraklion in one turn with siege weapons in Retrofit.:laugh4:
Thessalonica to Iraklion is possible only by using a bug, and that only allows you to get there while not attacking/landing... unless your commander got as much movement bonus as Onix main russian general in UDS :) Even then id doubt it

Have this been done?

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Rome slysnake

6388

The French trap clamps shut around Bordeaux, recatpuring the castle and destroying 2 moorish armies, along with their generals and trebs.

[Mithridate]

Ouch, well done.

Theres wayy to far between turns to keep my interest to really scout things out.
This turn things from interesting to... dangerous, keep it up!

[slysnake]

UK, Rougeman! http://www.sendspace.com/file/ukrvc0

[Rougeman]

6430

[Visor]

SilverShield

Just so you know.

[phonicsmonkey]

He needs a PM so that he gets an email reminder. I'll do it.

[Rougeman]

i already did but whatever :tongue:

[phonicsmonkey]

i already did but whatever :tongue:

Great, thanks!

[SilverShield]

i got this up later today


ya i got a pm from Rougeman. was just too busy. thx anyway guys

[SilverShield]

seljuks no longer human is a serious disadvantage. he still had some quality troops left. 8 mongol armies in the baghdad area now with sick troops


moors up
http://depositfiles.com/files/bhnuxtr44

[Mithridate]

Ah that turn when i lost most of my fleets and my main armies, how long ago :) (i curse it every time i play, its so huge a mistake)

Lost me the war that... bah, my innocence in hotseating long past.
got no motivation to fight on, but i shall at least until i start studying next month :D

Killed some english, lots of germans and cut my losses.

[phonicsmonkey]

bump - where's the save Mithridate?

[Mithridate]

sorry over that, here it is!

[phonicsmonkey]

bump Nightbringer

[Nightbringer]

Ah, thanks phonics, never got a notification that I was up. I did read the post though. I guess my brain is just on autopilot to only think it is my turn when I get a notification. I'll get it done tonight or tomorrow.

[Nightbringer]

denmark up!
The Celtic Viking
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10254

[The Celtic Viking]

Okay, doing my thing now.

[The Celtic Viking]

Zim, Fatimids turn. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10259)

[Zim]

Cumans

Visorslash

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10260

[Visor]

Mongols.

6529

phonicsmonkey

[phonicsmonkey]

If I'm going down I may as well take the Turks with me. I fought a battle this turn with almost 6000 on the battlefield. Great fun!

There are waaaaaay too many Russians and Byzantines around for my liking

Parisian Knights, Thanatos Eclipse

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Almost forgot about this one, I'll have to get it up tomorrow afternoon.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

slysnake
6556

[slysnake]

UK, Rougeman! http://www.sendspace.com/file/0pqa5a

[Rougeman]

SilverShield

[Myth]

The lead battles in SS are brutal. Trying to assault stone cities/forts is a pain since you're more likely to run out of ammo by the time you get to the second layer than anything. I've gotten a way to punch trough double stone walls but it requires a minimum of two siege units and even then it's a gamble.

The AI units are boosted very well. If you think it's hard now, try a SP game against the ERE. A couple of ERE generals and a couple of Scholarii can massacre a full stack in siege defence.

In fact I'm so happy with SS I can't wait for 7.0 to get released so we can have a grand ol' campaign on it.

edit: apparently I read an old post and I thought it was the most recent one, so i answered it haha :laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

The lead battles in SS are brutal. Trying to assault stone cities/forts is a pain since you're more likely to run out of ammo by the time you get to the second layer than anything. I've gotten a way to punch trough double stone walls but it requires a minimum of two siege units and even then it's a gamble.

The AI units are boosted very well. If you think it's hard now, try a SP game against the ERE. A couple of ERE generals and a couple of Scholarii can massacre a full stack in siege defence.

In fact I'm so happy with SS I can't wait for 7.0 to get released so we can have a grand ol' campaign on it.

edit: apparently I read an old post and I thought it was the most recent one, so i answered it haha :laugh4:

Yeah I've had to resort to auto-resolving fort battles unless I have several catapults or trebs.

I tried a SP campaign as Turkey on VH and got owned on the battlemap by the ERE. My arrows...useless!

[SilverShield]

just so anyone knows we aint on hold coz of me. that said is fair enough and all from me on this issue

[Nightbringer]

Hello everyone. It has been confirmed that cheating has occurred in this game, and I would like to ask everyone's opinion on whether we should still continue this game, or attempt to restart.

The cheating was done by slysnake, controlling the HRE. As such, he will be leaving the game.

The way I see it, we could try turning the HRE AI and continuing the game.

However, I think it can be agreed that a number of balance issues have been identified in this game to begin with, putting the Mongols at a huge disadvantage. As such, I would support a restart of the game with modified rules to correct this issue. I would propose permanently allying the Cumans and Khwarezmians to the Mongols.

So, what would you guys prefer? A restart, or continuing?

[phonicsmonkey]

Hello everyone. It has been confirmed that cheating has occurred in this game, and I would like to ask everyone's opinion on whether we should still continue this game, or attempt to restart.

The cheating was done by slysnake, controlling the HRE. As such, he will be leaving the game.

The way I see it, we could try turning the HRE AI and continuing the game.

However, I think it can be agreed that a number of balance issues have been identified in this game to begin with, putting the Mongols at a huge disadvantage. As such, I would support a restart of the game with modified rules to correct this issue. I would propose permanently allying the Cumans and Khwarezmians to the Mongols.

So, what would you guys prefer? A restart, or continuing?

I'd rather continue with the HRE turned to AI. If we restart I won't be able to commit to such a long new game.

[LooseCannon1]

Finish this one! I want to see the pagan infidel beheaded and the traitorous Muslims drawn and quartered! :whip: :smash: :charge:

[phonicsmonkey]

Finish this one! I want to see the pagan infidel beheaded and the traitorous Muslims drawn and quartered! :whip: :smash: :charge:

You won't live to see it!

[SilverShield]

im good either way. i personally think this game is over and the only chance there is for the mongols was if someone else wont stay with the team. tho if it was me whos the victim then and i sure i was im out then anyway. and just so anyone understands that it is less about the game but about principle for me. i have a utmost disgust for backstabbers and anything backstabbing. keeping ur fighting bros back is a core principle of my life whether it was in the field or whether its sports or life in general or just this computer game here. so i d just get angry over the backstabbing so i best leave once it happened. i rather have some moments of relaxation and fun when playing this

[SilverShield]

all good with Zim tho. what i said is my general opinion on treason. each and every situation is different so all good with Zim. its more that im really feeling pissed over slysnake that lil x and all the x he did. with some new info on this i now see it is even worse i ever thought it was. thats just insane. but yea right it is what it is now. its a strange situation but it is what it is. as i said im good either way as to whats best for us and wotk now. tho right now the chances of the mongols are pretty slim and i doubt chances were up once hre is computer. thats just the truth. its somewhat tragic it all went down the way it did but even if it wasnt for all what this lil x did we had some problems right away as the mongols are just too weak on their own. thats just how it is. but anyways im good either way. but we still 8 people here so someone else gotta give some feedback on which way was best. im good either way

[phonicsmonkey]

Just to let you guys know, the best proposal so far is from Myth who suggested we take HRE back to their starting provinces and military level, giving the rest of their territories to the AI Papal States.

That would allow someone to take over HRE without benefiting from the cheating that has taken place.

SilverShield, I think you can go ahead and play your turn on the basis that we'll work this one out as fairly as possible and we won't let a new player just take over the HRE and immediately attack you from a position of advantage.

[Visor]

What happened?

On and I vote for continuing. I've captured some land in this game. :beam:

Read: 3-4 settlements. :laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

What happened?

On and I vote for continuing. I've captured some land in this game. :beam:

Read: 3-4 settlements. :laugh4:

slysnake was hacking the game to give himself gold, armies and buildings and to move armies unlimited distances

[Nightbringer]

Alright, lets continue then! :)

[SilverShield]

hre computer and the papal stuff prolly is best for the situation in the east but thats a problem in the west then with the war against the moors if hre suddenly was out there. thats a big advantage for the moors then. man this x really broke anything. but alright anyways prolly still somewhat the only solution to this issue. and the advantage of hre over the moors was non legit anyway so its okay the moors situation will brighten up now. somewhat and in some way i can see the game having a second spring now


so give me some time on this its a whole new situation now. hre then will no longer be allied to me

[LooseCannon1]

Wait, what happened in the game? Did slysnake (HRE) attack SilverShield (Byzantium)? I understand the cheating but did he also betray us?

And if needed, after HRE is set back to normal (terms of land/money/units) I can play them.

[Myth]

slysnake did extensive cheating in WotK2 and was caught for it, he also cheated in CoG! and to a lesser extent in EotA. As such he will no longer be allowed to participate in these games nor in any other competitive hotseats in the TR.

He will also be banned from the TR but he seems to have left regardless.

[SilverShield]

im outta town still im up for this tomorrow

[SilverShield]

strange to imagine what the map will look like after this round when the pope took over some of those hre territories. but alright im ready for this. and we can just annihalate whats left of hre then. tho without the hre troops in the west and east i do think the situation is pretty tight then specially in the west. i can see the moors having a comeback there. and in the east its just me and kiev v the whole mongo horde of elite cav right now. it really is a whole new game now

moors up
http://depositfiles.com/files/m0o7icvlp

[SilverShield]

anyone? thats 6 days of nothing


pm
Sent 09-06-12 06:57 PM
Read 09-06-12 11:03 PM

[Nightbringer]

Alright, I will skip th eturn tonight if it is not done. Mithridate

[Mithridate]

sorry overlooked this, busy days

a comeback is possible but unlikely, will be darn close xD
Should be up by tonight, i wont ask for an extension as im already vlate

[Mithridate]

There is no save file in the link SilverShield

[SilverShield]

there was one u took too long to download ur save. and u gotta send me a pm if theres issues i dont check the forum on a daily basis to see whats up


alright heres a new one
http://depositfiles.com/files/ihqjzpkrm

[Mithridate]

Ok, playing now. Again, sorry all for the delays Nightbringer

[Nightbringer]

denmark up! The Celtic Viking

[Visor]

Nightbringer

Save?

[Nightbringer]

erm, yes, here it is.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10275

[The Celtic Viking]

Ah, I forgot about this. Sorry guys. I have to go to bed now, but I will do my things tomorrow ~14-15 if that's fine. You can sub/skip me this turn if it's not. ^^

[The Celtic Viking]

Zim, Fatimids up!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10276

[SilverShield]

so this is dead or what?

[Nightbringer]

I'm not really sure, I haven't seen or heard from zim in a while. Zim
phonicsmonkey, would you be willing to sub him?

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm really sorry guys but my life just keeps getting more and more complicated. I just don't have time to continue this game.

[Nightbringer]

I'm sorry to hear that phonics, although I hope all is well.

As to this game, I think it probably would be best to just try to end it at this point. I would be up for a restart though if others are interested.

[SilverShield]

im good both way. all the best to u Phonics

[SilverShield]

just bad how we ended this game but alright whatever

[Nightbringer]

How many people would be interested in getting a restart going of this game? I know I would be.

[Myth]

I would be for sure, but revised victory conditions for the Mongols are needed.

[SilverShield]

i d be up for a restart of this game. 3 of us tho just wont make this work

[Mithridate]

4 actually, tho still too few :)