Crusader Kings II [Archive] - Page 5

Monk

02-20-2013, 04:00

This is my first game that's lasted until the hordes arrived, and it's proved to be pretty interesting:

https://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u525/Aridhol/ck2_2_zpsf7b69694.png

https://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u525/Aridhol/ck2_1_zps3a33abf1.png

https://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u525/Aridhol/ck2_3_zpsb154be6d.png

I started as Castille, and managed to unite Spain (except for a chunk on the east coast owned by Pisa). In the process, I managed to put a ruler of my dynasty on the throne of Sicily and Greece, both of which were won in crusades. Sicily started out strong, taking most of the land in North Africa that Greece currently owns, but lost the majority of it's territory to Greece through inter-realm inheritance and a few wars. Greece went surprisingly well considering that their founding ruler was an imbecile, but with only a little support from Spain they managed to carve out a fair chunk of territory. I don't think they've ever been allied to the Byzantine Empire, but together they managed to break the backs of the Muslim powers before the Hordes arrived (which contributed greatly to the success of the Ilkhanate). Islam is now practically extinct in Europe.

Nothing particularly exciting had been happening in the rest of the world. France had been a powerhouse for about one hundred years (being a very helpful ally of Castille when it was first growing), but now is a patchwork of independent states. The HRE has stood strong throughout, expanding into Norway and Finland. Unfortunately they were struck by their first major civil war just as their allies the Cumans (who had united all of Russia and fielded about 80000 levies) were attacked by the Golden Horde, which ended poorly for them. The Pope launched a crusade to retake Poland, but as the HRE did not deign to take part it failed miserably. However, somewhat miraculously both the Golden Horde and the Ilkhanate converted nigh-simultaneously to Nestorianism about 30 years ago, and since then their borders have been frozen pretty much in their current locations.

Current plans are to finish up with unifying Britain, then I'll swap over to Greece, take out the Byzantine Empire and defeat the Ilkhanate somehow. Easy, right? :beam:

Incredible. I've never seen such an even split between religions so late in the game. Muslim religions are almost gone and the hordes picked Nestorian of all things to convert to? Talk about random... I love it! The hordes won't be getting any more reinforcement stacks, that's for sure. Not only because it's passed 1300 but also because they converted. And since the Il-Khanate has some of the most prosperous lands in the game (those persian provinces are incredible troop producers) I wouldn't be surprised if more than a large part of that troop count came from levies.

Your world is divided between east and west with nigh perfect religion borders. A fragmented west facing off against a unified East. You've got a monumental task ahead of you but I gotta admit, I'm a little envious. That's gonna be all sorts of fun. :bow:

The Timurids will be coming sometime after 1360 and represent the "final boss" of the campaign. Timur will be striking the Il-Khanate through Khiva. Time your initial strikes to coincide with his advance. His vanguards should put a serious dent into any remaining doomstacks the Il-Khanate may have and may give you a powerful opening to begin your bloody work.

And remember. The timer runs out at 1453. Good luck :bow:

Beskar

02-20-2013, 15:10

A quick modding could push the date back further, though the army stacks will really get large then. A fully upgraded county will rival a starting countries army.

I have noticed the weirdest thing in my game, 'White Ethiopians'. Due to some marriage choices and things of the Abyssinian Kingdom, they have some how managed to produce themselves as genetically Western Europeans.

I have since writing above, searched through them all to see how many are like that, and it is King and Duke, and a couple of counts. However, I managed to find a count who is 'Black' and guess what... he wasn't Ethiopian, he was German.

Monk

02-21-2013, 05:04

Monk

03-07-2013, 01:37

In the last few rounds of testing for my mod I played a lot as Aragon to see if I could turn the single county kingdom into a power. It's probably my favorite start and the best way I've found to measure the balance of that region, and it lets me test some of my more wild ideas like female commanders in a real way. It always proves to be one of the more challenging things to do and I don't always succeed, but I usually have fun.

I've never actually hated this game before. That was before I was locked in a bitter struggle for freedom against a numerically superior Almoravid Sultanate, launching an invasion of my kingdom...

1086. Winter. After twenty bloody years of unification the kingdom of Aragon was taking shape at long last. From the meager province of Alto Aragon it had grown to encompass much of the northern eastern counties. Having been at war for nearly twenty straight years under its Crusader Queen Maria 'The Lion' de Murcia the kingdom desperately needed a time of peace to consolidate it's power and establish firm hold over the lands it had conquered, but no such luck.

In 1086 after having watched for twenty years while Aragon broke and defeated each Muslim county one by oine in the north the powerful Almoravid Sultanate in the south launched an invasion, determined to put down the new upstart kingdom and outflank the battered Kingdom of Castile in one fell swoop. With the death of the late Castillian king only a few short years before the old alliances forged two decades prior were dead. Aragon stood alone against the terrible menace at her borders.. or did it? A rider appeared on the horizon at the 11th hour, just as the Aragonese marshaled their forces.

https://i.imgur.com/iQ4hu0G.jpg

The Regent of Castile, with full support of the child king sent an envoy pledging their support in defense of the Aragonese throne. Queen Maria pulled her forces back to the river Alagon, near the village of Frades de la Sierra to await reinforcements. It would be there the fate of her kingdom would be decided.

https://i.imgur.com/5whj4PQ.jpg

Aragon's forces were tired and exhausted after countless seasons spent campaigning, bringing new countiess into the fold. But they were a proud band, not one among them doubted their conviction.

https://i.imgur.com/fapDRZY.jpg

The fighting was savage and desperate as the Sultan of the Almoravids himself led the center against the combined strength of the northern kingdoms. Both sides refused to give way as fighting is said to have lasted for as long as two weeks. Each day beginning with a new charge, and each night ending with the counting of the dead. The rivers ran red in those long bloody weeks, but through great sacrifice and loss, the battle was won and the northern Christians claimed victory. The Sultan fell back to Albarracin county and dug in. The Aragonese and Castilians, swelled with pride and confidence, followed them in their retreat. But the north's forces were heavily disorganized after the Battle of the Alagon, it's suspected Christian forces suffered as deep as 60% casualties in the battle despite their victory.

The follow up battle proved disastrous and saw the destruction of the allied northern army. Immediately in response to the defeat, a powerful faction backing a pretender to the Castilian throne rose up in open revolt, challenging the regency of the child king. Castile withdrew her battle weary survivors and returned home to deal with the insurrection, leaving Aragon well and truly alone.

For two years the southern counties were ravaged by the victorious armies of the Sultan as they pressed their advantage. The warchests were empty and hope seemed to dim. There were no more soldiers to fight the war, and no money to finance a new campaign even if their were. It was then, when all expectations of victory had faded that a messenger arrived from the Pope. In His Holiness' infinite wisdom, he had observed the ongoing conflict and had sent his envoys to convey his full support. The gesture was largely symbolic, but the chests of gold the envoy delivered were far more than that. The wealth was more than enough to scrape together a counter-attack and drive the Muslim forces out of Aragon once and for all!

https://i.imgur.com/kfMQqNg.jpg

The armies clashed in Zaragoza, the forces of the Aragonese backed by substantial mercenary troops (with some coming as far as Ireland to take part in the campaign) attacked the Sultanate and his forces, who by now were laden with the riches stolen from the provinces of the south. The attack was fierce and halted the Sultanate's powerful advance, stomping cold his push into the north and crushing his army. It was the first major victory in over two years for Christian forces. The mercenary troops continued south and liberated the occupied county of Albarracin. Unfortunately, that is where the campaign had to draw to a close. Unable to support the expensive cost of so many professional soldiers the Aragonese delivered the last payments to the troops who had fought for them and brought an end to their contracts.

For 18 months the borders of the two belligerent realms were quiet. Castile still struggled against the pretender in the west and so were no threat to anyone, in the meantime however, the Sultanate and Aragon continued desperate attempts to rebuild. Whichever kingdom could come up with either the manpower, or the wealth, to support one last campaign would be the victor of the conflict..

Unfortunately for the north that was the Sultanate. Marshaling a powerful force of over 6,000 me the Sultan returned with renewed purpose and smashed the Aragonese defense at the Third Battle of Albarracin. Worse still the defeat cost the Kingdom of Aragon it's most powerful warleader, the Lion of Aragon herself, Maria de Murcia.

Broken, leaderless, and with little hope for victory, the Kingdom of Aragon passed to Ramiro II, son of the late Maria and thought to be one of the greatest military minds of his generation. The Sultan was swelled in confidence as he marched further north and entered the mountainous county of Alto-Aragon. It was there that he encountered a rebuilt and strong army, hardened by almost a half decade of war. The army was not of Aragon, but of Castile, who had finally put down their rebellion and returned to the battlefields in the east. Ramiro II in command of only a small retinue of his own men, took control of the allied effort and smashed the Muslim advance. His victory officially marks the turning point in the war, outnumbered 3 to 1, Ramiro's victory is a battle that military scholars studied endlessly for centuries afterward

But even with the great victory Ramiro faced an empty treasury and an inability to go on the attack. There just wasn't enough money or men to propel the war machine forward. Was it luck, or was it fate that then intervened? It's hard to say, but shortly after the bloody battle in the northern mountains an envoy from the Venetian dodge arrived, carrying with them great chests of gold! They wished to open new markets on the shores of Aragon and hoped that they money would serve as an incentive for the great King Ramiro to permit such things. Ramiro welcomed the foreign merchants with opened arms. The following year, the beleaguered northern forces launched the final counter attack of the war and completely ruined the Sultan's dreams of pacifying the Kingdom of Aragon. The veterans of the Battle of Alto-Aragon, backed by mercenaries bought with Venetian gold, were far too much for the weary Almoravid troops. Eight years after the outbreak of hostilities the great Sultan of the Almoravids conceded defeat and the invasion was officially brought to a close.

It would be the beginning of the end for Muslim dominance of the Western Mediterranean. Ramiro II moved quickly, cementing his alliance with a marriage of the Castilian King to his sister. The union would last and as each Kingdom fully supported the other through the coming decades, as one power grew, so too did another. With the powerful alliance at home, Ramiro further increased his power by remembering his Venetian allies. In 1106 he expelled all Geonese traders from his lands, opening the way for Venice to claim dominance of the trade in eastern Iberia. Back by the Venetian Doge abroad and supported by his brother-in-law in Castile, Ramiro oversaw the greatest military expansion of the Kingdom in its history. Surpassing that of even his mother's reign, his wars would make Aragon well and truly whole.

In 1120 after decades of continued war, a powerful Kingdom of Aragon (now fully in control of Valencia, Barcelona and all of de jure Aragon) claimed victory in a papal sponsored Crusade for Sicily, extending the power of the court of Aragon as far as the boot of Italy.

https://i.imgur.com/G7T6SEm.jpg

Or maybe I love to hate it! I don't know which, one of the two for sure.

Visor

03-07-2013, 03:38

Have you guys played mulitplayer/had trouble getting multiplayer working? I introduced the game to a group of friends and we all enjoy it. Multiplayer is great fun as well. (We've managed to get 5 players join so far).

Chaotix

03-07-2013, 04:58

Impressive, Monk. And with no help from France at all- that's quite a feat. I've done the same as Navarra, but always had to call in the big guys to help get me started.

As for multiplayer - I think I have it set up fine, but I don't actually know enough people to get a game going - and if I did I don't really have the time in my schedule. I've been trying to get my roommate to get it, though. I'm sure it's a lot of fun.

Monk

03-07-2013, 05:19

Impressive, Monk. And with no help from France at all- that's quite a feat. I've done the same as Navarra, but always had to call in the big guys to help get me started.

I got incredibly lucky. If it wasn't for the republic making doges give you money should they want to build stuff in your land, and the Pope sending me some money for being a stalwart defender of Christendom, i'd have lost in the 1090s after my Queen died. I just didn't have the manpower to fight them by myself, and that rebellion in Castile's homeland couldn't have come at a worse time.

I was hoping that any war from the Almoravids would be targeted at Galicia or Castile. Unfortunately for me, Galicia fell to another power early on and Castile, i guess, was a bit too powerful to risk it against. I was in the middle of a much needed cooldown and rebuilding period before the first crusade was about to be called. I wanted to claim Jerusalem, instead, i was fighting for my life at home. Even with cooperation from Castile it was a close one. :knight:

Have you guys played mulitplayer/had trouble getting multiplayer working? I introduced the game to a group of friends and we all enjoy it. Multiplayer is great fun as well. (We've managed to get 5 players join so far).

I'd love to get some MP going. I need a better comp though. I just did a huge move and I'm stuck on a crappy laptop for now. I can barely handle singleplayer let alone MP :laugh4:

Catalyst

03-19-2013, 10:52

Hello guys, I used to have a very good event file which did pretty much everything. Add traits, Add army, Add diplomatic relationships, gets your wife pregnant, claims.... As I said pretty much everything.

I lost this file, do you know which one is it and where I can find it? I think it's unique so it's possible to know what I'm talking about.

Thanks.

xploring

03-20-2013, 14:51

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 1 - A Different Europe

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?676756-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Dev-Diary-1-A-Different-Europe

The first dev diary is out. There are some maps with tranversible rivers (a bit like sea zones/straits, but clearly visible), looting, and talks a bit about bonus and penalty for different pagan beliefs.

And this (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?676790-Sir-Phil-s-Lifestyle-Solutions) is a funny thread. I couldn't help but laugh while reading it.

Monk

03-20-2013, 21:45

I want it. Now.

That looting system looks incredible. :yes:

johnhughthom

03-20-2013, 22:08

Monk

03-20-2013, 22:49

Just wondering what you guys feel about the state of CK2 with the dlc? I played a lot (heck of a lot...) of the original game with the DVIP mod, and found CK2 pretty shallow on release, in terms of events and immersing myself in the game. Have the dlc improved the depth of the game, more regular/varied events? I wouldn't bother with the Aztec dlc, just the others.

We'll have to disagree on it being a shallow experience, but odds are if you didn't like the base game the DLC isn't going to do anything to fix that. Most of it is based on giving different flavor to the various faiths or government types of the game. Sword of Islam and Legacy of Rome are probably the best for pure immersiveness and flavor factors, though, with The Republic falling a bit short and being too random in how it rewards/punishes you.

Or are there any good mods out there yet to expand on this area? I know your mod adds events and things, Monk. The equality bit would bug me though. Not having a go, just don't like 21st century political correctness in my grand history games.

:shrug:

Considering in CK1 women could be Steward, Chancellor and Spymaster without restriction I didn't see much reason to have the sequel change that. The only liberty I've taken is the ability for high martial women to be marshal and lead troops, which is specifically limited to ability, education and traits. I don't consider it political correctness, otherwise I would have just allowed them to do everything across the board, including the ability for women to lead bishoprics, which I haven't done. You're free to disagree though, as I knew not everyone would like that direction. ~:)

As for mods that seek to change immersion/balance there's 3 that I find worth mentioning: You'll need to login to the paradox forums to see these links.

VIET (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?652025-MOD-Vanilla-Immersion-Events-and-Traits-A-Modular-Flavor-and-Tweak-Mod&p=14735327&viewfull=1#post14735327) is a fun mod to play with that adds mostly immersion events and is pretty modular. It's primarily focused on being a character and roleplay mod first and a balance mod second. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Project Balance (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?594436-Project-Balance-(AKA-Balansegang)) is a vanilla based balance mod that attempts to tie in roleplay with balancing. Characters can only do certain things if they have the right traits (you can't betray allies unless you have Wroth, or are ambitious, for example) and its design is very similar to my own mod. For a while I played PB and completely stopped developing my own mod since I enjoyed it so much, but it does a few things I don't like and I eventually turned back to modding myself.

PB is my definite recommendation for people who want to try a balance mod but don't like mine, for whatever reason. VIET also has PB compatible modules, so there's that.

CK2+ (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?587854-CK2Plus-Balance-improvements-more-kingdoms-and-empires-more-ambitions-and-plots) is the community favorite. It fundamentally alters almost every gameplay mechanic to the point that you're almost playing a different game, that's probably why some people like it, but I could never get into it. It makes some good choices but also some kinda bad ones, specifically related to middle-east balance and the faction mechanics.

johnhughthom

03-20-2013, 23:37

I didn't mean to come across as overly critical in calling the game shallow, I simply meant in comparison to DVIP, which was a mod with a number of years work behind it, so I didn't expect any less. In terms of the base games, CK2 is light years ahead of the original, and it's clear there is potential for mods that kick DVIP out of the water. I was only semi-serious with the 'political correctness' thing, females being allowed those roles unrestricted in the original was something that bugged me, though I was rarely strong enough to roleplay and not give a highly skilled female one of the positions. :embarassed:

VIET looks like a DVIP style mod so I think I'll give that a whirl sometime soon. Thanks for the info. :yes:

Monk

03-20-2013, 23:54

VIET looks like a DVIP style mod so I think I'll give that a whirl sometime soon. Thanks for the info. :yes:

:thumbsup:

Alexander the Pretty Good

03-21-2013, 00:21

And this (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?676790-Sir-Phil-s-Lifestyle-Solutions) is a funny thread. I couldn't help but laugh while reading it.

The problem is that the first answer could apply to all the questions in CK2:

Arrange for your wife to be assassinated, especially if she is of bad breeding stock, and marry this courtier.

komnenos

03-23-2013, 22:09

It seems that unfortunately the old gods expansion is the last one.:no: Am I right? because they have solved all the problems in this game. However they can make a lot of expansions for that.~D

Greyblades

03-24-2013, 03:24

The problem is that the first answer could apply to all the questions in CK2:

Ouch, probably unintentionally offensive joke but I can see that ending badly.

xploring

03-25-2013, 13:55

Patch 1.092 is now live on Steam and GamersGate! (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?678233-Crusader-Kings-II-1.092-PATCH-RELEASED-Checksum-ICBN-NOT-for-problem-reports!)

Old save games should be completely compatible.

CHECKSUM: ICBN

This patch rebalances Merchant Republics: There is now a limit to how many Trade Posts you can have, based on palace upgrades and the number of adult male dynasty members in your court. "Family Dues" are now paid only to adult male dynasty members in your court, and they all receive the same share. Also, the Seize Trade Post plot has been nerfed in several ways.

Chaotix

03-25-2013, 22:15

Definitely a big nerf to Republics; adding a Trade Post limit is going to severely cut their income. Also, requiring a Trade Post before you can do a city war is an extra incentive for the player to embargo.

Also of note in the patch:

Holy War CB has been nerfed to duchies that are adjacent or 1-2 sea regions away.

Truce breaking now has a huge prestige and diplomacy penalty (half your prestige + 200, and -5 diplomacy for 10 years).

I have a feeling Iberia and the East are going to become a lot more static with these changes. It might even help the pagans in the Baltic survive, too, but that's doubtful until the pagan DLC buffs.

Monk

03-25-2013, 22:21

xploring

03-26-2013, 11:49

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods Interview Live at Strategy Informer
“The Old Gods is the fifth expansion DLC for Paradox Interactive’s gripping dynastic succession strategy title Crusader Kings II, shunting the starting date back and allowing players to take control of the pagan chieftains vying for power in the turbulent 9th Century. We talked to project lead Henrik Fåhraeus about raiding, rebels and more.”
http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/crusaderkingsiitheoldgods/453/interview.html

PDS will take YOUR questions on the march 27th stream- submit them here! (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?677553-PDS-will-take-YOUR-questions-on-the-march-27th-stream-submit-them-here)

Ibn-Khaldun

03-27-2013, 20:59

Can someone help me. How to create titular titles?!

I've been playing a mod called "A New World, The Dawn of Empires" and I should be able to create kingdoms there but I can't find a way to do it. The mod doesn't have any predefined kingdoms and empires in the game. As I understood I should be able to create a kingdom with my primary duchy but I just can't find the option for it.

Beskar

03-27-2013, 23:33

I've been playing a mod called "A New World, The Dawn of Empires" and I should be able to create kingdoms there but I can't find a way to do it. The mod doesn't have any predefined kingdoms and empires in the game. As I understood I should be able to create a kingdom with my primary duchy but I just can't find the option for it.

You need to own two duchy titles, plus own the location you want to make the title of. There may be other conditions such as culture or religion to forming that title.

Monk

03-28-2013, 06:28

Paradox had a huge mega stream today. The topic? Everything they have coming up in regards to grand strategy. If you got an hour or two head on over to check it out. Archived stream here. http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive/b/382958953

The Old Gods begins at 1 hour and 39 minutes

If you don't, list below from what I saw.

Features revealed and talked about:

*Pagans are now locked to Gavelkind, which given how easily they expand seems a good balance choice.

*New Technology system allowing you to actively invest in certain technologies. Every month you get technology points which you can then invest where and how you want to. You also get points if your neighbors far outpace your tech, techs cost more or less points depending on how far ahead or behind of the curve you are.

*Technology buffs have been spread out more significantly to slow down the tech race.

*New ambitions which allow you to push toward certain objectives ("Become King of Norway")

*As time goes by pagans can either convert to other religions or reform their religion and declare a religious head. Reforming your religion opens the ability to crusade and act like the more established faiths of the game. For the Norse, you must capture holy sites in order to bring your people together under one figurehead. Norse Crusades are called "Great Holy Wars."

*The biggest benefit of reforming is the ability to move away from Gavelkind. The biggest negative to reforming is the "raised vassal levy" penalty which you can effectively ignore as long as you an unreformed pagan religion.

*The Varangian Guard will form through narrative events (just like the holy orders).

*"Petty Kings." Dukes of certain cultures call themselves Kings but still are considered dukes. They use a similar naming convention that Muslim dynasties do until they can become "real" kingdoms.

*A ton of new nicknames.

*Adventurers can get a special CB to claim coastal duchies and become vassal of the de jure ruler, imitating the historic rise of Normandy.

*Armies (maybe only norse or pagans, it's not clear) can be toggled to raiding mode, which allows them to attack anything solely for the loot a province has, not to take the fortifications. You don't seem to need to declare an official war to raid. Your raiding target is automatically hostile to you.

*You have to make it home for the gold from raiding to get into your treasury, setting up the possibility to destroy raiding armies and deny them their loot.

*Zoroastrians mechanics are teased. No information given (future dev diary probably)

*"Take Concubine" Diplomatic option.

Alexander the Pretty Good

03-29-2013, 00:27

Insanity. It sounds like a completely different game.

rickinator9

03-30-2013, 17:36

Monk

03-30-2013, 20:55

In case you don't know yet, Elder Kings (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?624367-MOD-Elder-Kings-a-CK2-Elder-Scrolls-mod)(The Elder Scrolls mod) will be released on the 1st of April(no joke :D ). It should give a somewhat different experience.

I've been following its development for a while. Personally I can't wait, looks like it's gonna be really awesome :yes:

rickinator9

03-30-2013, 22:57

I've been following its development for a while. Personally I can't wait, looks like it's gonna be really awesome :yes:

I'm gonna be downloading it the minute it gets released. The last thing I personally coded on it were Annoying Fan events. I wonder if they added Werewolf/Vampire events since I last saw them.

Ishmael

03-30-2013, 23:14

The last thing I personally coded on it were Annoying Fan events.

:laugh4:

Oh man, I have to get it now. Please let us know in the thread when it's released.

Monk

03-30-2013, 23:37

I'm gonna be downloading it the minute it gets released. The last thing I personally coded on it were Annoying Fan events. I wonder if they added Werewolf/Vampire events since I last saw them.

Haha oh wait, I remember you telling me about that on steam while you were making it. Fantastic. :thumbsup: Truly can't wait to reunite the Empire while fighting off anxious fanboys.

rickinator9

03-31-2013, 02:39

Truly can't wait to reunite the Empire while fighting off anxious fanboys.

Well, I don't think there is a scenario for 4E, but there's also 2E(Which I personally think is better) where there is no dominant force yet. One surprise for me is that they have not only included Tamriel, but also Akavir.

Monk

03-31-2013, 05:07

I suppose this is as good a time as any to share my current game. I want to apologize in advance for all these Anglo-Saxon names...

Jerusalem, 1156

https://i.imgur.com/QH4TRcu.jpg

It's been a full century since the Mad King Harold Godwinson threw out the Norse invaders in the combined Norman and Norwegian invasions of England. Fully believing himself possessed by the spirit of Satan, Harold's rule was punctuated by periods of harsh brutality visited upon his subjects. Some wondered whether they would have been better off under the rule of William the Bastard or Harald Hardrada rather than their insane king. The former met his end penniless and little more than a pauper after his failed invasion of England, while the later was slain by the 'possessed' Harold.

https://i.imgur.com/HyzKf0N.jpg

For over half a century the heirs of Harald have fought to unite the Isles beneath their rule. First was Wales, which was united beneath Godwine I, son of Harold. Next came Ireland, where ultimate resistance was crushed by Ælfwald the Wise, known more commonly among his enemies as Ælfwald the Dwarf. But it was not until 1120, just after the conquest of southern Ireland was complete that a new challenge was presented: Jerusalem. The crusade for the holy land was in full swing and little success was being met by the exhausted troops of western europe. That is, until the arrival of German and Frankish Knights from the Holy Roman Empire and France respectively and the imposing Huscarls of the Saxons.

Providing the backbone of the combined army of western europe, the Saxons held fast in every single battle. Backed by the powerful German Knights and Saxon infantry, the crusaders smashed the Fatimids in every significant battle after the arrival of reinforcements in 1122. For their contribution to the crusade effort, the Saxon King was also proclaimed King of Jerusalem. It's been almost 40 years since the Crusade and time and ambition have finally caught up to the heirs of Harold Godwinson.

With the death of Gisela I 'the Great' of Godwin, succession was complicated by the death of her first son by mysterious circumstances. Gisela's granddaughter, Ecgwyn, was by law entitled to the succession, but due to her young age (only 11 at the time of her mother's death) she could do little to stop her older sister, Æthelflæd I, from stepping in and proclaiming herself Queen of England. Æthelflæd had spent most of her adult life building a powerful web of alliances and supporters in England, making deals with the Saxon lords of Mercia and Northumbria (the two most powerful vassals of the Kingdom). Nearing 30 in 1150, and married matrilineally to the bastard son of Queen Cecilia 'the Fat' of Sweden, she was considered dark horse at best in the question of succession.. until she murdered her brother of course. Although no evidence could ever link her to the assassin who poisoned Eadweard of Eilat, she is the one who benefited the greatest from his demise...

Gisela's second son was living in Scotland, married to Queen Helen I of Scotland, and her third son was even younger the heir apparant Ecgwyn, still just a child, and with fewer supporters. With only the young Ecwyn in her way and already having powerful support from the central dukes of England, Æthelflæd used the threat of foreign interference in Saxon affairs to encourage her conspiracy to act. She was crowned Queen of England in 1151, almost 100 years after Harold fought for his life in the invasions.

https://i.imgur.com/6hnbSVM.jpg

With the throne of England passing to Æthelflæd, the Duke of Lienster, Sæxbald I, moved quickly to consolidate power in the Emerald Isle. The first son of Harold of Ascalon (who was in turn, youngest son of Ælfwald the Wise), Sæxbald rallied his supporters and declared himself King of Ireland a few months after the Kingdom of England had been passed to Æthelflæd. With little in the way of manpower in England after Æthelflæd had siezed the throne, Ecgwyn's supporters could do little but accept the declaration as fact. Ireland and England both had new rulers.

https://i.imgur.com/Qt1IAKs.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JzAGx0z.jpg

The powerful Kingdom of England had now been split between the successors of Gisela I.

With Ireland firmly under the command of Sæxbald and Æthelflæd cementing her power in London, Ecgwyn fled to the only place that might still accept her rule, The Holy Land. Protected by the last retinues of her mother who were still loyal to the true royal line, the fleet landed in Acre nearing on August of 1151. To the great relief of all involved, Ecgwyn was welcomed by the dukes of the Levant, who proclaimed her the rightful heir of Gisela I and the true Queen of Jerusalem. Yet now, cut off from their homeland and truly alone in the world, the newly independent Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Jerusalem must now face its first and most dangerous quest: Survival.

https://i.imgur.com/bk7Qx64.jpg

To be honest this has been my plan from day one, but I didn't expect it to be so dramatic... :confused:

I also love how Æthelflæd has 100 relation to me. Yeah. I gave you a kingdom because I saw the writing on the wall, you murdering :daisy:.
I couldn't be prouder. :grin2:

Ibn-Khaldun

03-31-2013, 11:15

Monk's crusader state made me think about my current Byzantine game.

Catholics have declared Crusade to capture Jerusalem from the Fatimids. However, I have claims on it as well. So, I was wondering whether the crusade will end if I declare war on Fatimids and take Jerusalem before crusaders take it? As of now they are mainly fighting land battles (Fatimids haven't given the crusaders time to capture settlements) but it's obvious that Fatimids (who had to fight several civil wars from the start of the game) run out of manpower sooner than later.

So, will the crusade end if I take Jerusalem before the crusaders?

Monk

03-31-2013, 18:52

Really good question.. I'm actually not sure! One of two things will happen, either the war will end inconclusively or the war will shift to you as you are the holder of the landed titles.

Ibn-Khaldun

04-01-2013, 08:19

Well, I took Jerusalem (Haha.. crusaders fought a battle against the Fatimids in Tiberias(?) in the same time) and soon I was offered a peace. But the crusade is continuing against the Fatimids. Is this the start of a never ending war?

xploring

04-01-2013, 11:26

STOCKHOLM – April 1st, 2013 – Paradox Development Studio and Paradox Interactive will soon bring Crusader Kings Z to the masses, the fifth expansion to one of 2012’s most acclaimed strategy/RPG games and inspired by zombies.

Crusader Kings Z adds a zombie invasion to the medieval Europe, as a way to make the Black Death come alive in a physical form. This is a world where gruesome death dominates Europe, when zombie armies pillaged towns and monasteries in their search for brains, slowly walking to wherever the promise of human flesh awaits them.

Expanded gameplay mechanics will allow you as a player to become a zombie ruler, rallying your undead hordes throughout Europe or a Zombie Survivor fighting for your dynasty’s survival.

View the first screenshot, character portrait and concept art ever released for Crusader Kings Z here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?679685-First-Ever-Screenshot-Released-for-Crusader-Kings-Z

Main Features:

Two separate possibilities for gameplay: Zombie Ruler or Zombie Survivor

Zombie Ruler
• Play as a Zombie ruler and ravage your weak neighbors. If you remain at peace for too long, your undead will grow restless...
• New gameplay feature: Devour your rivals and earn their traits through eating their brains
• New gameplay mechanics: Use plagues to spread your influence and expand your undead armies
• Your zombie ruler is strong, but plots may decapitate you or burn you at the stake, so be on your guard. Your heirs can only be chosen from the people you have infected personally, and not from anyone infected by your horde.

Zombie Hunter
• Experience a new and different type of game by playing as one of the great Zombie survivors
• As the head of a Zombie Survivor family, you must guide your dynasty through a world infected by zombies
• New seasonal effects will encourage you to expand to the northern parts of Europe where the winter will give you a breathing space for when zombies freeze
• Build fortifications with dozens of unique new buildings and expand your empire by controlling the sea lanes and coasts of Europe since zombies have a hard time crossing waters…
• Christians and Muslims can dispatch Holy Wars against the infected hordes.
• Experience feuds with other survivors and plot to seize their supplies and beans; many special events for characters in Crusader Kings Z

Crusader Kings Z also includes:
• New dark Zombie interface skin.
• Unique torn clothes and crude ship models created from whatever survivors can find in Crusader Kings Z

The screenshots look good, sounds quite promising actually... :yes:

rickinator9

04-01-2013, 13:58

The screenshots look good, sounds quite promising actually... :yes:

Please, let that not be April Fools. It sounds awesome!

Elder Kings (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?624367-MOD-Elder-Kings-a-CK2-Elder-Scrolls-mod) has been released! Download it!

Monk

04-01-2013, 14:24

The screenshots look good, sounds quite promising actually... :yes:

:laugh4: Best April fools ever

xploring

04-03-2013, 10:57

The Paradox Mega Stream - The Highlights

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?679955-The-Paradox-Mega-Stream-The-Highlights

Paradox had a huge mega stream today. The topic? Everything they have coming up in regards to grand strategy. If you got an hour or two head on over to check it out. Archived stream here. http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive/b/382958953

The Old Gods begins at 1 hour and 39 minutes

If you don't, list below from what I saw.

Features revealed and talked about:

*Pagans are now locked to Gavelkind, which given how easily they expand seems a good balance choice.

*New Technology system allowing you to actively invest in certain technologies. Every month you get technology points which you can then invest where and how you want to. You also get points if your neighbors far outpace your tech, techs cost more or less points depending on how far ahead or behind of the curve you are.

*Technology buffs have been spread out more significantly to slow down the tech race.

*New ambitions which allow you to push toward certain objectives ("Become King of Norway")

*As time goes by pagans can either convert to other religions or reform their religion and declare a religious head. Reforming your religion opens the ability to crusade and act like the more established faiths of the game. For the Norse, you must capture holy sites in order to bring your people together under one figurehead. Norse Crusades are called "Great Holy Wars."

*The biggest benefit of reforming is the ability to move away from Gavelkind. The biggest negative to reforming is the "raised vassal levy" penalty which you can effectively ignore as long as you an unreformed pagan religion.

*The Varangian Guard will form through narrative events (just like the holy orders).

*"Petty Kings." Dukes of certain cultures call themselves Kings but still are considered dukes. They use a similar naming convention that Muslim dynasties do until they can become "real" kingdoms.

*A ton of new nicknames.

*Adventurers can get a special CB to claim coastal duchies and become vassal of the de jure ruler, imitating the historic rise of Normandy.

*Armies (maybe only norse or pagans, it's not clear) can be toggled to raiding mode, which allows them to attack anything solely for the loot a province has, not to take the fortifications. You don't seem to need to declare an official war to raid. Your raiding target is automatically hostile to you.

*You have to make it home for the gold from raiding to get into your treasury, setting up the possibility to destroy raiding armies and deny them their loot.

*Zoroastrians mechanics are teased. No information given (future dev diary probably)

*"Take Concubine" Diplomatic option.

xploring

04-03-2013, 15:45

Dev Diary 2 - The Wrath of Odin (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?680207-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Dev-Diary-2-The-Wrath-of-Odin)

This one is about raiding. Main points are:

- raiding can only be against counties outside your realm and of different faith,
- loot is not taken from the treasury of the local ruler, but rather represents the possessions of the local clergy, burghers, farmers
- all sieges (not just raiding) in a county will damage the wealth, but only raiders will get money from it
- Loot from counties neighboring your own realm goes directly into your treasury (I think it implies no loot from raiding counties further away), except for Norse pagans who have the option of raiding all coastal areas, no matter how distant (only Norse fleet can carry loot back home)
- fortification can be upgraded to protect partially from looting, and eventually block off rivers from Norse fleets, but this protection is lost if the holding is sieged down
- buildings and even entire holdings can be destroyed if siege is successful, rare and will mean windfall for raiders

Next dev diary is 2 weeks away, on special wars for pagans from gold and prestige gained through raiding.

Monk

04-04-2013, 03:19

It looks like Raiding is restricted solely to pagan faiths, with bonuses given to Tengri and Norse rulers in particular. That's a solid restriction, otherwise any time a crusader state would pop up, they'd get endlessly raided by their good Muslim neighbors. :sweatdrop: Not exactly fair when those provinces have to eat 15-20 years of significant recruitment penalties anyway.

Looks like title level will be really up and down through a Pagan dynasty's lifetime. A count of an obscure province (who's smart and picks his time right) can amass a fortune raiding and use it to advance their rank. Definitely sounds fun ~D

Beskar

04-11-2013, 18:34

Beskar

04-11-2013, 18:37

Looks like title level will be really up and down through a Pagan dynasty's lifetime. A count of an obscure province (who's smart and picks his time right) can amass a fortune raiding and use it to advance their rank. Definitely sounds fun ~D

With Gravelkind too, I can imagine a lot of creation and dispersing.

One thing I have to admit, is I find gravelkind far too messy in the way it is implemented in CK2. Shame you cannot assign which estates go to which sons.

Monk

04-12-2013, 03:36

I have to be honest, I was never looking forward to a Pagan expansion, it was a shrugged off moment, going "Bleh..", but they really made it appealing by adding tons of new mechanics and best of all, the new start date. One problem I find with CK2 and EU3 is after a while, you simply look and know exactly how the game will play out. With the new start date, even the old areas are worth re-exploring through their new environments. Best of all, England is not united in any sense, which is a refreshing change.

I think a lot of players feel the same way. I mean think about the eastern side of the map and how many times you've actually played over there since the game came out. What usually happens is any power who grows in the east is challenged by the mongols just as they are starting to consolidate. Unless you're a speed freak and can unite a strong state way before they arrive, you're in deep trouble no matter what. I can personally count the number of times I've started as eastern factions on a single hand.

The extra start date and the benefit of an extra 200 years makes many areas of play that were previously unwise choices very interesting. What's got my interest currently is building a Zoroastrian Persian Empire over those 400 years and then fighting off the Mongols at my apex ~D. I think it'd make for a hell of a game.

Monk

04-13-2013, 20:29

This thread (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?648502-Why-You-Should-Play-As-Any-Particular-Character-in-CK2)is incredible.

xploring

04-17-2013, 14:05

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 3 - The Heathens Are Coming! (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?683263-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Dev-Diary-3-The-Heathens-Are-Coming!)

This one is about pagan's options for waging war. There are 3 screenshots too.

Prepared Invasions

Norse Pagans, or Vikings as they are known to the common man, have the unique ability to launch Prepared Invasions against non-pagans. This undertaking can only be done by small to middling Viking realms, and the target of your invasion can't be too small or too big (it needs to have between 9 and 40 holdings).

The way this works is that you declare your intention to invade a particular realm. This will cost you a lot of prestige (which can be gained through looting, as explained in the previous Dev Diary), and you'll have two years to prepare before going to war. During this time warriors from across the Norse lands will flock to your banner, hungry for loot and plunder. Needless to say, if you fail to declare war before these two years are up, you will lose face. ("Events will occur continuously where you are granted troops and ships for the invasion as warriors trickle in." from reply in comment)

Subjugation

Pagans won't shy away from fighting each other, and all pagan rulers may make use of the new Subjugation casus belli. This lets them attack other pagans within a specified target kingdom, but it can only be used every ten years unless your ruler has the new ”Become King” ambition. If you are the victor of a Subjugation war, you will vassalize all lords within the target kingdom.

Pagan Conquest

Pagans can always declare war for control over a single neighboring county, and in addition to this, Norse Pagans may also go to war for any coastal county.

Tribal Invasion

This casus belli can only be used by independent Altaic (Turkish and Mongol) and Magyar pagan rulers, and it targets entire kingdoms in what amounts to massive horde invasions. You may have been on the receiving end of these before, but now you'll finally get a chance to unleash them yourself as you ride in from the steppes to carve out an empire.

And finally, a few more items that have a significant impact on pagans and how they wage war:

Non-pagans suffer from a significantly smaller supply limit when in pagan territory, which limits their ability to march massive armies towards the heathen homelands at the start of the game. This penalty will eventually be removed as you progress through the Military Organization technologies.

As was touched upon in the last Dev Diary, Norse and Tengri pagans lose prestige if they have been at peace for too long. The Suomenusko, Romuva and Slavic pagans are less focused on offensive warfare and do not have this penalty. In addition, their warriors enjoy several defensive bonuses, especially when fighting in provinces with their own religion.

Monk

04-18-2013, 03:11

Screenshot 3 confirms (or very likely does) a new face pack DLC. I see a norse helm design i've not seen before :yes: Also, dat beard on Rurik.

The restrictions on the pagan subjugation are interesting to say the least. With the "Become King" ambition we'll be seeing realms uniting fairly quickly beneath strong pagan overlords, but will become significantly weaker upon the warlords death with the lock in to Gavelkind.

Remember that unless you specifically start with Primogeniture it takes you until High CA to get it, and since Pagans are locked to gavelkind from the start, we'll likely see a quick consolidation of a number of realms and then massive internal problems for them until they can get strong leaders again. (And since the AI is typically not smart enough to swap to Senority or Elective unless by faction revolt, this could go on for centuries in some kingdoms..) I think that's going to be really interesting to watch from both a balance and player perspective.

I do not like Norse getting free CBs on all coastals. That's what raiding is for! Without some restrictions we can likely expect a repeat of what Republics used to do and just DoW random minors from halfway across the map. Will have to see how it plays out, but it's a potential concern.

Love the idea that once you get too powerful you can no longer prepare invasions. Looks like that feature was made for the little guy. In the live stream the dev was still able to call invasions after having formed Norway, so you probably won't run into the limitation until you've formed two kingdoms.

Great list. Some great stuff in there, some balance concerns but nothing a bit of modding won't fix. ~D thanks for the share xploring.

xploring

04-20-2013, 16:15

Live stream about the Old Gods on the 22nd of Monday at 20CET. It will be on Technologies. (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?684038-This-Monday-we-ll-be-doing-an-Old-Gods-feature-stream.-This-time-Technologies)

Funny thread on common misspelling in CK2 (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?683313-CK2-Misspelling-Fun-Fiction) :laugh4:

xploring

04-23-2013, 09:25

Talq has posted a summary of the live stream on technologies here (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?684609-Technology-in-Old-Gods-(so-far)).

I thought there is a new tech for ships?
Like more levels and less categories.
Not sure what is meant by tech now spreads, it spreads now too? Though very slowly.

Video highlight of the technology live stream here (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?676764-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Developer-Diary-Archive)

Ship building is now a tech (for quantity of ships).

xploring

04-25-2013, 03:33

The Heathens are Coming! Release Date Set for Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods

The Gods Will Rise May 28th, Feast Thy Eyes on the First Gameplay Trailer Ever Released

Soon Paradox Interactive and Paradox Development Studios will welcome you to a past darker than you can imagine, where there are few shining knights or mighty castles and the kings of Europe are more petty warlords than imposing rulers. We stand only 400 years from the fall of Rome, and a mere 200 from the revelations of Mohammed and much of the world still clings to an ancient code written with iron and blood.

This is the world of Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods, and it is yours for the taking on May 28.

The latest trailer for The Old Gods is the first trailer to show gameplay from the expansion. Feast thy eyes on river-going vessels, the new map and brand new powers that will compete for prestige and prominence.
Pray to the old gods or risk the wrath of Odin - watch the trailer here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?684868-The-Heathens-are-Coming!-Release-Date-Set-for-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods

xploring

04-25-2013, 12:19

Very informative summary of the livestream @ pcgamer (http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/25/crusader-kings-2-the-old-gods-release-date-and-new-details-from-mondays-livestream/)

A lot of new stuff (to me anyway)

What we learned from the livestream:

The only republics existing at the 867 A.D. bookmark are Venice and Amalfi, the latter being a completely new historical trade union made up of both Italian Catholic and Greek Orthodox patrician families. Genoa and Pisa can both form between 867 and 1066—we saw Genoa pop up during the stream. We’re unsure whether or not they always will.
According to game designer Chris King, there is a new “Berserker” trait that certain characters can have. The effects and cultural restrictions remain unknown.
Since there weren’t that many powerful Shiite Muslim landowners in 867, an event will fire after game start that spawns the first Shia Caliph. He will begin as a landless adventurer with a large host of supporters, and carve out a kingdom for himself to begin the Shia rise to power. This event was modeled after the rise of the Mamluks.
Muslims are given an across-the-board starting boost to technology, due to their historical scientific superiority during the time period the expansion depicts.
If you have researched too far ahead in any technology track, you will take a percentage penalty to researching the next step until time has caught up to the point at which that tech would have, historically, become available. Thus, rushing down one tech path will now result in less efficient use of tech points over a long campaign.
You now get a base boost to Military, Economy, and Cultural tech based on the stats of your Marshal, Steward, and Court Chaplain, respectively. Council missions no longer increase your chances of discovering new tech, but rather speed up the spread of tech in the targeted province from all adjacent, higher-tech provinces. This will give you more incentive to actually move your tech research missions around, creating “highways” of tech spread to outlying areas of your realm.
Any time you capture a fortress as any religion, you will now be able to take prisoners from the court there, such as the ruling lord’s family. If you are a pagan ruler, you can force any such prisoners who are female and of age to become your concubines.
Succession for pagans treats children of concubines exactly the same as children of wives.
Zoroastrian rulers are apparently less concerned with incest than other religions. Concrete details were lacking, but they made it sound like marrying your own daughter is all well and good with Ahura Mazda.
The Jomsvikings are in the game as a Holy Order that can be hired by Norse Pagan rulers. Holy Orders for other pagan religions are still under consideration.
There will be a much larger mercenary pool, and many cultures that did not have cultural mercenaries will have them now.
Flavor events surrounding the great East/West schism in Christianity are still being considered, but are not currently in the game. Orthodox and Catholic are still being treated as “effectively separate” in 867.
If you are a pagan ruler under a Christian liege (such as Erik the Heathen in 1066), some of the pagan mechanics—notably raiding—will be switched off. We’re unsure if this is based only on top-level liege, or if it applies to any liege. (For example, a pagan count under a Christian duke under a pagan king may or may not have these restrictions.)
Heretics can now rise up in organized rebellions.
New formable empires include Abyssinia and Mali on either side of Africa. These join the previously-revealed Tartaria, Carpathia, and Italia, such that every province on the map now belongs to a de jure empire.
Dublin will be ruled by the Norseman Ivar the Boneless, son of Ragnar Lodbrok, in 867.
Pagans have the ability to sacrifice prisoners for Presige and Piety boosts.

Monk

04-26-2013, 02:37

Great finds xploring ~D

I had to shake my fist a bit at the devs, they are teasing some interesting things for Zoroastrian characters. In the live stream they mentioned numerous times that they'd have some big flavor events. I can barely wait until the Zoroastrian dev diary. :yes: I also have my fingers crossed for a Seljuk Invasion event..

xploring

04-27-2013, 04:22

Any time you capture a fortress as any religion, you will now be able to take prisoners from the court there, such as the ruling lord’s family.

This one sounds exciting and scary at the same time. I wonder if there is a choice of prisoners or is it random? Does this mean if any stack even moves towards my capital, I will have to rush back to save my heir/spouse? :sweatdrop::laugh4:

I wish there are more interactions between characters though. Gaining traits seems a bit random at the moment, more cause-effect relationship for actions and traits would be nice.

Monk

04-27-2013, 04:55

This one sounds exciting and scary at the same time. I wonder if there is a choice of prisoners or is it random? Does this mean if any stack even moves towards my capital, I will have to rush back to save my heir/spouse? :sweatdrop::laugh4:

I wish there are more interactions between characters though. Gaining traits seems a bit random at the moment, more cause-effect relationship for actions and traits would be nice.

There's already a few really fun mods like this, one of which I played around with for a while. It's called Dungeons and Sieges and it really amps up the stakes when it comes to capturing castles. The game is smart enough to know exactly where characters are, if they are leading armies they should be safe from these events provided they are scoped correctly... however, if they aren't leading troops? That would be fair game for capturing...

This change will make playing female rulers extremely dangerous as in vanilla they cannot lead troops and are always in their demesne provinces, unlike men who can be toggled to a command somewhere to keep them 'safe.'

Chaotix

04-27-2013, 18:57

There's already a few really fun mods like this, one of which I played around with for a while. It's called Dungeons and Sieges and it really amps up the stakes when it comes to capturing castles. The game is smart enough to know exactly where characters are, if they are leading armies they should be safe from these events provided they are scoped correctly... however, if they aren't leading troops? That would be fair game for capturing...

This change will make playing female rulers extremely dangerous as in vanilla they cannot lead troops and are always in their demesne provinces, unlike men who can be toggled to a command somewhere to keep them 'safe.'

Indeed. If your desmesne is on the front line or you're fighting a particularly powerful enemy, the best possible choice might actually be to have your family members leading troops rather than vice-versa. Should be a real game-changer, and it'll definitely make Martial more important for rulers, even of larger countries.

xploring

05-02-2013, 04:47

PC Gamer interviews Doomdark re Old Gods (http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/01/crusader-kings-2-the-old-gods-in-depth-qa/)

No major revelation but some interesting tidbits

xploring

05-03-2013, 06:42

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 4 - The Pagan Reformation (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?686357-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Dev-Diary-4-The-Pagan-Reformation)

To begin with, religious Moral Authority has been revamped. The base value is now determined by the number of Holy Sites under the control of the religion. On top of this, there are various timed modifiers (think character opinions) for things like winning or losing holy wars, or building temples. This new system applies to all religions, not just the pagans. The pagan religions do tend to start with fewer Holy Sites under their control, but on the other hand there are no pagan heresies to worry about.

Now, as mentioned in previous dev diaries, pagans enjoy a number of advantages, but they also suffer from some frustrating limitations. Foremost, perhaps, is that they are stuck with Gavelkind. Pagan vassals are also a lot more suspicious of new rulers on succession (harsher "short reign" opinions), they cannot demand conversion of vassals, and they are easily impressed by the cunning missionaries of the Abrahamic religions. To avoid these problems, pagans can of course simply give up the old ways and convert, but there is another option; pagan religions can be reformed in imitation of those clever monotheists. With a proper church hierarchy, a holy book, and standardized rituals, the pagan religions can become more competitive.

Reforming the faith is not easy; you need to control three of the holy sites and have a lot of Piety to boot. After reforming, your faith will be given a religious head. In the case of Norse Pagans, the character who conducted the reformation will become the Fylkir, serving as both secular ruler and religious leader in much the same way as an Islamic Caliph. You may now declare holy wars, both great pagan Crusades and regular religious wars against infidels. Other pagan religions get a vassal religious head, like the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

There are tradeoffs to reforming the faith, however. You will lose the Subjugation casus belli and the defensive home attrition, and the unreformed version of your religion will become a heresy (which can cause problems for you.) As a pagan, you will normally want to grow quickly using your invasion and subjugation CBs, and then try to either reform your religion or convert in order to consolidate and stabilize your realm...

That's all for now. Next week's topic is special pagan events and decisions!

xploring

05-09-2013, 01:48

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 5 - Events, Decisions and Zoroastrians (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?687343-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Dev-Diary-5-Events-Decisions-and-Zoroastrians)

The events and decisions sound interesting, though there doesn't seem to be many of them for some(most?) pagan faith except Norse...

The dev diary also explain Zoroastrian and its game mechanics in some detail.

Monk

05-09-2013, 03:18

Oh wow. Zoroastians get a variant of the sayyid trait for descendants of the character (likely to be you) to reunite the Persian Empire and declare themselves Saoshyant... that is so cool. :grin3:

xploring

05-14-2013, 10:16

CONTEST! Invade Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods with your very own in-game event
Dare to go berserk and create a pagan event – the winners will have their events put into the game. (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?688327-CONTEST!-Invade-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-with-your-very-own-in-game-event)

Could be fun to read. Only one-shot event though.

Crusader KingsII: The Old Gods Video Dev Diary 2 - Rebels (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?688332-Crusader-KingsII-The-Old-Gods-Video-Dev-Diary-2-Rebels)

About the various types of rebels with the new DLC. Sounds promising.

xploring

05-15-2013, 13:04

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 6 - A Rebel and a Traitor (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?688489-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Dev-Diary-6-A-Rebel-and-a-Traitor)

This one is about rebels (peasants, heretics and "liberators"), adventurers, and new cultures. It's a shame that to play with the new rebel system require the new DLC, but all these changes sound really promising and exciting.

Monk

05-16-2013, 02:49

Chaotix

05-22-2013, 05:58

I finally got around to finishing my Komnenian Restoration.

Put a lot of time into this one:

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/559849719852394753/684F54A9105891A5F64D8F5008F67C408CF81FA3/

The Komnenos line also sits on the thrones of a few Despotates withing the empire, Ireland (but they're heretical Catholics), and Denmark, as soon as the current Queen dies.

Ilkhanate and Timurids never even wanted to mess with me. They were each strong at first, but later splintered due to Sunni having near 0 Moral Authority from me winning so many Holy Wars.

xploring

05-22-2013, 12:38

The last dev diary of The Old Gods is out. (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?689521-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Dev-Diary-7-Technology-in-the-Dark-Ages)

Technology gets a revamp. Only dukes or above get points to spend on tech, and only in capitals, tech then spreads to other provinces.

There are also a couple of new steppe cavalry buildings, and a new merchant republic with a new province, Amalfi, in southern Italy.

rickinator9

05-23-2013, 00:49

I think I'm going to like the new Tech system. The old one was so passive that I barely ever pushed the 'Technology' button.

Monk

05-23-2013, 03:04

I think I'm going to like the new Tech system. The old one was so passive that I barely ever pushed the 'Technology' button.

I think a lot of players had that same mindset about Tech. It was essentially something you set at the very start of the game (focus on infastructure, Legalism, Castles..) and never touched again for 400 years. The new system looks absolutely grand in comparison.

The Komnenos line also sits on the thrones of a few Despotates withing the empire, Ireland (but they're heretical Catholics), and Denmark, as soon as the current Queen dies.

Ilkhanate and Timurids never even wanted to mess with me. They were each strong at first, but later splintered due to Sunni having near 0 Moral Authority from me winning so many Holy Wars.

Very impressive. :thumbsup:

rickinator9

05-24-2013, 11:16

I think, when I get my hands on TOG, I will create a character called 'Kurush' and rebuild the Persian empire under the guidance of Zoroaster!

giorgos

05-24-2013, 13:38

hello.can i ask something?i have the game ck2 and is download no official i can join multiplayer like "host" or i need the official.thank you

Beskar

05-24-2013, 16:33

Crusader Kings 2 The Old Gods Expansion is out next week, along with 3 smaller DLCs.

I am guessing.. Some sort of CoA or Sprite pack, music of the Norse, and music of the Hordes.

Chaotix

05-24-2013, 20:26

hello.can i ask something?i have the game ck2 and is download no official i can join multiplayer like "host" or i need the official.thank you

As far as I know, you need to register your game on the website in order to access the multiplayer server.

EDIT: Tiaexz : You're probably right. Norse music and units are a definite. Not sure about Coat of Arms... I'd love that, but it seems unlikely to me.

Personally I don't buy the unit skins because I am usually so zoomed out on the map that I can't even see them.

xploring

05-25-2013, 01:48

I am guessing.. Some sort of CoA or Sprite pack, music of the Norse, and music of the Hordes.

http://www.paradoxplaza.com/shop

It's Norse Portraits and Unit Pack, and Hymns to the Old Gods.

Monk

05-25-2013, 04:44

I think, when I get my hands on TOG, I will create a character called 'Kurush' and rebuild the Persian empire under the guidance of Zoroaster!

I have to admit that is one of the biggest attractions for this expansion for me. Rebuilding both the Persian Empire and your faith along with it sounds like loads of fun. And god help me if there's a "Turkish Invasion" event. :laugh4:

komnenos

05-25-2013, 15:51

However i didn't like Mediterranean Portrait and Russian Portrait but I prefer this new DLC, I mean Norse Portrait. Because the faces are more natural.

xploring

05-27-2013, 14:51

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Official Q&A Thread, with change log for v1.10 (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?690260-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Official-Q-amp-A-Thread)

Some huge changes with the patch alone. There are so many...

- Liege levies now have 0 morale when raised
- Bastards may now marry normally. If they have children, they will start a new dynasty.
- Birth rates have been reduced a lot
- You now need more than 50% of the de jure counties to usurp or create a title
- The kingdom of Italy is now a de jure part of the HRE in 1066

You can buy The Old Gods and related minor DLCs on greenmangaming with 20% discount. (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?690284-Cheap-The-Old-Gods-Preorder) You will be able to activate them on steam.

I tried to copy the ck2 folder to keep the 1.092 build so I can continue playing old saves, but I don't get the window to choose mods when I open with ck2.exe in the new folder. Is there anything else I need to do for savedgames with mods to work?

Monk

05-27-2013, 21:38

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Official Q&A Thread, with change log for v1.10 (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?690260-Crusader-Kings-II-The-Old-Gods-Official-Q-amp-A-Thread)

Some huge changes with the patch alone. There are so many...

- Liege levies now have 0 morale when raised
- Bastards may now marry normally. If they have children, they will start a new dynasty.
- Birth rates have been reduced a lot
- You now need more than 50% of the de jure counties to usurp or create a title
- The kingdom of Italy is now a de jure part of the HRE in 1066

Currently the dynasty is randomly generated. I say currently because when directly asked about this, the dev felt the need to tack on "for now." Read into that what you will!

Almost all the changes are hugely positive. I do not like the HRE having Italy in its De Jure but as always, nothing a little modding won't fix. This patch also claims to have fixed multiplayer sync issues introduced by the republic DLC as well as the sav game crash affecting some players.

I haven't anticipated a patch this much since 1.06. Can't wait to play. ~D

Alexander the Pretty Good

05-28-2013, 02:49

This patch list is nuts.

Also, favorite minor change:

>- De jure change: Cut the Duchy of Oxford. Gave its counties to Essex/Bedford and Hwicce/Gloucester.

Gonna make my favorite Lannister Lancaster start less of a headache. :P

Beskar

05-28-2013, 17:21

Playing my first Old Gods game at the moment. Started as the Count of Skane, and my first goal is to get the Skane areas under my control.

Building is more expensive now with no modifiers to affect the cost. I like the tech system. Hungary just formed in 881, and they reformed the Tengri Faith instead of going Christian or Muslim. I did a very ill fated war against Lotharinga for Zeeland (A Norse Holy Site). Managed to get a force of equal size to theirs, and mine lost, and I instantly went to -47% warscore, I managed to get a White Peace just before then, but yes.. ouch.

rvg

05-28-2013, 20:09

Beskar

05-28-2013, 22:45

I'm considering buying this... (it's 75% off on Steam right now). Thoughts?
I like tactical combat, which as I understand this game lacks. Does all the political intrigue make up for the lack of tactical combat? What is the biggest highlight of the game?

It is a really great game for the type of game it is. So one of those "If it is your cup of tea, it is great. If not, you might not like it at all".

As for political intrigue, it does everything right so far and it has a robust modding community so there will always be changes and variations done by the masses.

Arguably the best time to try it is during a 75% sale due to picking a lot of the Expansions (Byzantine, Muslims and Republics) though the new Pagan one is full-price.

Monk

05-29-2013, 05:21

Had 3 hours with the new expansion, so far I am absolutely blown away. If there was any DLC that I could point to and say "this renewed my love for the game" it would be Old Gods. What a fantastic showing. The new technology system works great, as do the buildings.

The 867 start date offers an incredibly less static and highly unpredictable map.

In one game, the Magyars conquered modern Hungary and then expanded their empire across the stepps. In another, the Bulgarians completely destroyed them and they never formed Hungary. In one, Lotharingia united all of Italy and Eastern Francia beneath its banner.. in another, Italy stayed strong, Lotharingia disintegrated into petty fiefdoms and Aquitaine, not France, rose up to be the power in the west. And yet more, in one game the Umayyads united all of Spain and were launching forays into southern France.. and in the next, the northern Christians rallied and held their ground quite effectively.

This bookmark is absolute chaos in the best kind of ways. I love it and cannot wait to play more.

I do have a few concerns. Right now it's very easy for a few powers to snowball and become big blobs. The good news is that, due to the extra 200 years, there's plenty of time for internal strife to catch up to them. I've already seen the Abbasids blob up and then disintegrate under Decadence wars twice.

Norse also have an unfair balance advantage in that prepared invasion forces don't disband after the invasion is over. You get to keep the retinue and ships. Yes, you're limited to 1 invasion per life, but it has the potential to snowball quite easily if you're a smart gamey player.

But beyond that? I am absolutely in love with the Old Gods.

https://i.imgur.com/H6Qxpvl.jpg

My first game came from Ivar the Boneless, I've united Scotland and am generally being a pretty bad dude. Scotland is incredibly strong beneath Norse occupation, but the strength is tenuous. I have a feeling my sons are going to tear the Kingdom apart after my death. Gavelkind ensures there will be at least two strong contenders in the civil war.

Truth be told? I cannot wait for the chaos to erupt and fight traitorous brothers for a father's crown :knight:

komnenos

05-29-2013, 11:16

I need help! I'm in an emergency. Today I created an account in Seam to purchase CK2 collection which is on sale there. But unfortunately I saw that Iran is not included in countries list. Can't I do s.th to purchase it? Is another website that supports Iran? Please help me before the sale time of CK2 expires.:help:

johnhughthom

05-29-2013, 11:33

It was on sale on a few other websites before the Steam sale, unfortunately thay have finished.

Is it Steam itself unavailable in Iran, or just CK2 through Steam?

komnenos

05-29-2013, 16:23

It was on sale on a few other websites before the Steam sale, unfortunately thay have finished.

Is it Steam itself unavailable in Iran, or just CK2 through Steam?

Yes Steam is itself unavailable in Iran because I tried M2TW and Call of Duty but again I didn't see Iran in the list. In addition to Iran some countries like Iraq wasn't there.

Beskar

05-29-2013, 18:23

You could use a proxy and pretend to be in another country, lets say, America. I believe that is a way.

rickinator9

05-30-2013, 02:46

Achaemenids: Attempt #1
https://i.imgur.com/MnuJNLT.jpg

So, I started as Kurush. I first started attacking Khiva, for the duchy of Khiva(The muslim states to the south were occupied in a war). I, of course won. After this, I saved up a whole lot of money, as the wars to the south had only left one dominant muslim state: The Saffarids. As I expected, they quickly DoWed me, but with the money I stocked up, I was able to get some mercs, which helped me defeat the 10000 man doomstack(in this context, it was). I was able to drive up the warscore to 100% by destroying their army and I even had the luck of killing the enemy ruler in battle.

A few years later, the turks from the north attacked. I hired some Horse archer mercs and set out to battle the turks. They were defeated so decisively, that I made peace and followed up with an holy war. That was to be that last of the turks. In the meantime, I took all the land of Khiva. From that point on, I didn't expand. The affairs with the Khivans and the Turks meant that I wasn't able to attack the Saffarids, which I should have done. The Saffarids were promptly defeated and now, the Caliph held most of Persia.

The only opportunity that popped up against them was a decadence invasion, but I was soundly defeated because for some reason, the AI sent all their armies to me. The decadence invasion succeeded and was followed by civil war, but I wasn't able to take advantage of this. Whenever I went to war(with the son of the now dead Kurush) my vassals revolted. I decided to stop the game at this point, as my vassals randomly started making factions.

Chaotix

05-30-2013, 03:34

Yes, I have found the Zoroastrian Karen Satrapy to be very difficult to succeed with myself after several trials today. But it seems you made it further than me - I always got bogged down fending off other countries' Holy Wars. First I tried to go south into the Tahirid Satrapy for an immediate land-grab in Zoroastrian lands (so little turnover to give me troops), and that worked for a while - even got myself a Genius daughter of the Satrap and his sister - but I got mauled by the Cuman Khan and the Saffarids at the same time. The second time I went for an early war against Khiva but I took the single county left in the Duchy of Merv (probably not a great idea), and then everyone outpowered me. I was starting to think it was impossible without swearing fealty to the Khivan Shah before your proof.

Something I have discovered - the Saffarids always start at war (Invasion of Persia) with the Tahirids, and will take all of their land if they win, leading to that blob problem you have. And unless someone else is supporting the Tahirids, the Saffarids will probably win, because they are significantly bigger.

Also, the Horse Archer mercs are super-helpful, and I've found they can take down armies about 1.5 times their size with the right commanders.

So the way to succeed may lie in making sure the Tahirids and the Saffarids stay separate - because divided, you can conquer them, but together they are just too much.

Anyway I spent a lot more time yesterday with Harald Fairhair, and here's what I've accomplished:

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/594753342689186351/8914C7FCE8DBCE1D1E0A3A19D5A45C49A3D72218/

That's Harald's grandson on the throne now. Completed the Norse reformation within Fairhair's lifetime, and since his son died young I've been mostly defending the Fylkirate until now. I plan to let Denmark de jure drift before I create the Kingdom; Norway is enough for now. I also had the Holy Isle of Zeeland until just about 6 years ago when the Queen of Lotharingia holy-warred me for it and called in all of her Karling cousins. One Karling I could have handled, probably even two or three with Sweden's support, but the entirety of Europe rallied with the infidel witch.

Not sure what I'll do with Harald II now. Maybe I'll invade Scotland and get rid of the heretical Old Norse living there. Definitely want to stick it to the Karlings and take all of Holland soon. By the way - as soon as you reform, you're considered "organized religion" by the game and get the huge supply limit penalties in other pagan lands. Found that out the hard way when I went for Mecklenburg after reforming.

naut

05-30-2013, 10:50

Well, I came here to see if I should purchase Old Gods and your fun games have tipped the balance out of my account and into Paradox Interactive's eager palms. Now I just need the friendly modders for PB, SWMH and VIET to update!

- Birth rates have been reduced a lot
That's probably a good thing. My last game as the von Pruessen Kings of Vendiland each king produced about 9 children, maybe more... :eeeek: Although I'd prefer it if rather they kept the birth rate the same, but instead increased infant mortality. In fact, I may just try implement that myself!

Also, the Horse Archer mercs are super-helpful, and I've found they can take down armies about 1.5 times their size with the right commanders.
Horse Archers are the second most powerful unit type, their stats mean they're approx half as powerful as knights (and 35% stronger than LC and a whole 78% stronger than pikes). The fact they have high skirmish numbers means armies are very susceptible to taking big loses initially, and then never recovering. In short, yes they're good!

Myth

05-30-2013, 11:43

I gave Antioch a try or two in the 1087 scenario (third crusade), however each time I got my arse handed to me by Salahadin, he simply called a Jihad on my weak, two county state, and stomped me effortlessly. What do I have to do? One time I made it up until the Teutonic Order was formed, but I still lacked the 120 piety necessary to get their delicious, free, Muslim-slaying armies.

rickinator9

05-30-2013, 18:31

White_eyes:D

05-30-2013, 20:27

I think becoming a vassal of Jerusalem is your only choice.

90% of the time, that only just delays the Jihadist onslaught. If the Sunni one fails then the Shia one well get you...Still, I admire anyone for trying to play a Catholic Character in the Outemer region.:thumbsup:

rickinator9

05-30-2013, 23:23

Monk

05-31-2013, 03:22

I'm gonna try it with PB now. I found out that along with their larger size the Saffarids also get 4000 free troops. I cheated them away and stopped the war between the two satrapies to just give the Tahirids time to prepare.

There's a juicy target to your southwest. The Alavids are Shia, so that means they can't call in too many muslim allies.

Meneth has made some really great balance changes to the 867 start. I'm impressed. Wouldn't mind giving it a go myself.

I can actually have my sisters and daughters as concubines...

It's not only allowed, it's encouraged. Taking sisters or daughters as wives gives a large opinion boost to Zoroastrian vassals. :sweatdrop:

rickinator9

05-31-2013, 04:05

Meneth has made some really great balance changes to the 867 start. I'm impressed.

I talk to him almost every day, so I can suggest a lot during playthroughs. The removal of the massive Abbasid claims was one of my suggestions.

Monk

05-31-2013, 04:06

I talk to him almost every day, so I can suggest a lot during playthroughs. The removal of the massive Abbasid claims was one of my suggestions.

:thumbsup:

naut

05-31-2013, 05:30

My first game ended in first success, then failure. I created Lithuania by subjugation, then was subjugated myself by Danish Vikings. That casus belli really needs to be nerfed. You can absorb huge regions if the duke and king titles exist. =/

Meneth has made some really great balance changes to the 867 start. I'm impressed. Wouldn't mind giving it a go myself.
Wooo! That guy is a machine mighty fast turn-around on his updates.

Myth

05-31-2013, 09:14

Hmm.. I think i'll obtain all the dlcs and such, then give it a try again. I've seen some pretty gimicky guides, like taking all your starting vassal's lands for yourself, banishing/imprisioning/executing them and such, but it sounds like it's not how the game was meant to be played. Plus, starting in 1066 on some backwater island in northern Europe is one thing, but starting in the middle of the storm in 1187 is another.

Interestingly enough, for a first try of CK2 (I played a bit of 1 and Deus Lo Vult, but never mastered it), I somehow managed to not get my head chopped off by muslims and NOT swearing fealty to Jerusalem until the TO emerges, which is several years after the start I think. If I somehow manage do get 120 piety by then, I think I'd be fine.

Though last night I did swear fealty and I found that it's actually to my benefit to do so, as the entire army of the Hospitallier order basically helped me crush the Hashashin province. It then went on conquering in Rum for some reason, but whatever. I'm curious how the AI can raise the Hospitalliers ASAP, while if I were playing the KOJ i'd have to wait to amass the necessary piety.

I also have an idea of somehow involving the HRE into the levantine conflict. If the Kaiser drops the hammer on Egypt I think myself with the KOJ can together somehow splatter the rest (with the aid of the Holy Orders of course).

komnenos

05-31-2013, 20:10

naut

06-01-2013, 13:27

Has anyone managed to reform the Norse faith?

White_eyes:D

06-01-2013, 17:28

Has anyone managed to reform the Norse faith?

Yeah, but there are two bugs with that. One is that the Norse holy orders don't reform and the other is that female seers cannot convert anything or anyone, I have no idea why...:shrug:

You also lose that yummy defensive attrition bonus and get hit by it when invading other unreformed pagans.:sweatdrop:

Chaotix

06-01-2013, 20:15

Has anyone managed to reform the Norse faith?

Yep, check my screenshot a page back.

Yeah, but there are two bugs with that. One is that the Norse holy orders don't reform and the other is that female seers cannot convert anything or anyone, I have no idea why...:shrug:

You also lose that yummy defensive attrition bonus and get hit by it when invading other unreformed pagans.:sweatdrop:

I can confirm the Jomsvikings not reforming. Actually I reformed before they existed, that might be the problem. As for female seers, I never actually tried/noticed. Good catch.

naut

06-01-2013, 22:07

Yep, check my screenshot a page back.
Ahh. You did too!

Holy orders didn't reform for me either.

I started an 867 Game as Holmgardr, now I'm in 973 and I've got the kingdom of Rus, just large enough to create the Russian Empire if I had the right culture--somehow my lineage went from Norse culture and Norse religion to Estonian Culture and Slavic Religion. On the up-side, i'm >< this close to reforming the Slavic Religion, just gathering moral authority as I already have the Holy Sites and the piety.
Your culture/religion shift would be down to guardians or events. Guardians have a chance to change their wards culture/religion to their own. So be careful educating your children with a foreigner. Alternatively it can be used to your advantage, educate your next heir using a Russian and you'll be able to form that Rus Empire!

naut

06-02-2013, 08:53

I thought I'd combine my favourite CK2 things, Norse raiding, the Baltic Sea and Project Balance and see what I'd manage to accomplish.

Premise: An (completely) ahistorical Baltic Norseman tenuously rules Prussia, his vassals distrustful of this upstart heathen. Surrounded by religious enemies and ambitious would-be-kings, he must reach his goals.

Goals:

Revoke all of Prussia before becoming a King prevents doing so.
Subjugate Lithuania and become its King.
Marry into Norse Royalty.
Subjugate Poland and become its King
Create the Empire of Poland-Lithuania
Keep it all together!

Needless to say:

I did it!

https://i.imgur.com/VFA9Mto.jpg?1

Also.... 14 children is, uh, quite a lot, and only 20% died young. Concubines are a bit of a double-edged proposition... Mortality and fertility still needs a little more tweaking.

This DLC really is excellent. Raiding is so much fun and so powerful. In the course of my game I sacked Venice and Rome and took the spoils and plunder of the Mediterranean for my own!

And I captured the odd King too!

https://i.imgur.com/zP1NZte.jpg?1

Next up is the impending realm division when Jedvard journeys off to Valhalla for further glories. Thankfully the Empire is elective, and all but 1 Duke weak and easy to manipulate.

The Heir to Poland.
Vs.
The Heir to Lithuania.

https://i.imgur.com/YGedODq.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/m8hCw7V.jpg?1

There is still more of Poland to conquer. But that can wait till after the inevitable succession crisis (you can tell which son I favour!)

rvg

06-02-2013, 14:27

Curse this game! I'm so utterly hooked. This thing is worse than crack.

Ibn-Khaldun

06-02-2013, 15:13

Curse this game! I'm so utterly hooked. This thing is worse than crack.

Agreed!

Monk

06-02-2013, 21:14

So i heard restoring Zoroastrianism was hard.. and you're damn right it is. Liberal use of your chancellor's ability to increase relations with rulers is the only way you're going to survive. Even with Project Balance making the east less stupid (no more abbasids getting claims on everything!) if you aren't increasing relations you're going to go down in flames. I've adopted the strategy of, whichever direction i'm not expanding in, I send my chancellor to tell sweet lies to the ruler of that region. It's worked incredibly well, as have my military campaigns.

And if there was one thing saving the Godwin dynasty taught me it was the best defense is a great offense. (A little assassination here and there doesn't hurt either...)

https://i.imgur.com/B9VPb3D.jpg

I've picked apart and annihilated every emirate and satropy who dared to stand against me. Usually invading when they were least expecting it, and using the opportunity to pick apart their stacks before they could doom up. The southern powers start much larger than you, but if you can organize a quick strike you can easily cut off their forces and take them piecemeal. Do that and amazing things happen, if you can't get that to line up perfectly, they will doom up and you're done.. :no:

The Karen Dynasty now controls a restored Persian Kingdom. The Shah's power is absolute in the eastern part of Persian. In the center, petty Sunni rulers are fighting over the remains of the Sarrafids after their collapse, while in the West the Arabian Empire is controlled by the waning power of the Abbasids. Perhaps shadows of their former selves, Persia must take great care not to disappear into those shadows in the days ahead.. For while the Karen Shahdom of Persia is powerful it has expanded too quickly and many of its new satrapies are not fully beneath the control of their Zoroastrian overlords. Religious tension is mounting, especially along the Persian Gulf, but if any man can hold together this newly forged kingdom it would be Vahid The Great.

https://i.imgur.com/myBSaQi.jpg

A decidedly average noble who, at first glance, hardly has any idea how to run a kingdom, this man has fought in every battle, led every charge, and personally united two kingdoms beneath his banner all within the 17 years of his reign. It has been a hard road to this point, and the challenges ahead look even tougher as the power of the Abbasids refuses to fade completely. A confrontation is likely inevitable between the two powers, and Vahid is likely going to be right in the thick of it, as he always has been.

And of course.. what sort of Zoroastrian Shah would he be without marrying his sister. :sweatdrop:

100 years remain until the Seljuk Invasion arrives on my northern frontier. I need to consolidate my power quickly if I am going to have any hope of weathering that storm, but the Abbasids aren't going anywhere... I have a feeling it's going to be a long winter.

Beskar

06-02-2013, 21:37

Curse this game! I'm so utterly hooked. This thing is worse than crack.

I am glad my shoddy reply to you didn't scare you away then. :thumbsup:

rickinator9

06-02-2013, 23:44

Monk: How did the Tahirids survive? The Saffarids usually eat the Tahirids and form a mega blob.

Monk

06-03-2013, 00:07

Monk: How did the Tahirids survive? The Saffarids usually eat the Tahirids and form a mega blob.

They did, but the Tahirids made a comeback when I destroyed the Saffarids.

The Saffarids only had a couple duchy titles across their blob, apparently. So when I invaded Birjand in a holy war and took it (in a series of flawlessly timed engagements where I completely broke their stacks before they could doom up, if I might add) it fractured the mega-blob into a half-dozen smaller states after the peace offer. The Tahirids are the result of around 10 years of clawing back to the forefront in the ensuing chaos.

I'm currently in the process of dismantling them once again. :grin2:

Chaotix

06-03-2013, 01:06

Well done, Monk.

I can't for the life of me figure out a winning strategy in landlocked regions like that when I'm outnumbered. Even hitting the levies before they combine into a stack is difficult because it's so difficult to guess how long it will take you to get anywhere.

I very much prefer the old "hit them where they're vulnerable and then retreat to the boats" strategy, but it obviously doesn't work in Persia.

Monk

06-03-2013, 06:05

Strangers have arrived from a far away land...

https://i.imgur.com/Drk0O9u.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/06enYuA.jpg

I have no idea how they even got here, but this is simultaneously the strangest and greatest thing i've ever seen the AI do. :laugh4: With about 2,000 tough adventurers this guy set sail for the ends of the known world and has arrived in Basra. Not only that, he's carved out his own little kingdom just a stone's throw away from the power struggle over Persia between the Karen Shahs and the Abbasid Caliph. Everyone seems to be leaving him alone for now.

I can only imagine the story these guys would tell if they could.

Chaotix

06-03-2013, 06:55

Is there even a river route that connects to the Indian Ocean??

naut

06-03-2013, 08:41

Surely Zoroastrian inbreeding would lead to many undesirable traits?

rickinator9

06-03-2013, 08:52

Is there even a river route that connects to the Indian Ocean??

I believe PB has seas there for the republic of Hormuz in later start dates.

Myth

06-03-2013, 13:25

OK i decided to put Antioch on the backburner until I get the hang of CK2. I started with the count of Vestland (the province in Iceland which has Reykjavik). I discovered the joys of the ruler builder, which is paramount when starting so small. I managed to conquer my neighbour in Iceland mainly because of my ruler having 22 combat, and my marshal having >14 at the start. I reformed the duchy - Petty Kingdom of Iceland, and started my raids.

My two sons - Ragnar and Thorkel (whom I personally named and discovered how much more immersive the game becomes when one name's one's sons) became great warriors and leaders (it helped that they had a Genius father). Ragnar won fame and fortune with the Varangian guard, and Thorkel was sadly denied his chance when he asked, because he at the time had 21 combat and was the realms marshal.

With just the troops from the two counties we raided Ireland every summer. The fleet of 7 longboats soon become larger, as we managed to conquer two independent counties in Norway, as well as the Faroe islands. The old king died at age 79, leaving his sons a raiding navy of 30 longships and a 1500 strong army of mostly upgraded heavy infantry. Naturally, Ragnar returned from Contsantinople a few years before his father died, and even though he was the son of a concubine, he managed to keep his kingdom. Throkel, who was the more capable leader, never did manage submit, and so was beaten with the help of the levies in Norway. He was then released from prison (after his title was revoked), and was reinstated as Marshall. Sadly, Thorkel lost his life at age 52, and will be remembered as the most fierce fighter and general Iceland had yet born.

His half-brother Askelad was given reign in Norway, while King Ragnar continued consolidating his position and raiding. At the peak of his reign, he would haul 340 units of gold and valuables per trip, and so gradually the capital of Iceland became a flourishing castle and had a sturdy foundation of military and civil infrastructure.

Ragnar's son had to deal with the rising threat of a petty kingdom in Norway, which had an ambitious ruler who had managed to conquer almost all of the necessary counties to form the Kingdom. Had it not been for the vast treasury accumulated from raiding, Iceland would have been subjugated. The petty Kingdom was neutralized but the garrisons proved too firm to be broken by the battered remains of the Icelandic army and the Scottish Band company of mercenaries. By the time we returned next year, our good friend and father in law the King of Sweden, had conquered all of Norway. Despite numerous key marriages, it seems that sooner or later we will have to deal with the larger duchies of Sweden (as the old king is 74 and his heir has not reached manhood yet).

The path before Iceland is now to continue with the yearly raids on Ireland, Wales, England and France and consolidate the young King's fresh rule (especially preparing for Askeladd's departure from this world, as his son does not have as much respect for his King) and then attempt to hire mercenaries and transport them to reclaim the Norwegian counties from the greedy Swedish dukes. It appears though, that transportation is the bane of Icelandic expansionist desires, as not being able to move our full force in one fleet severely hinders our mobility, and we don't have the capacity to fight a combined Swedish army.

For Antioch, swearing fealty to the Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire might indeed be the way, but the new factions feature chops the game up with faction announcements and it's really annoying. Also, the first thing to do is restart until the Pope calls a crusade for Alexandria and not Andalusia. The former means blessed respite from the Abassids, whilst the latter means one has to endure the onslaught of a (mostly) unified Islamic world.

rickinator9

06-03-2013, 13:38

For Antioch, swearing fealty to the Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire might indeed be the way, but the new factions feature chops the game up with faction announcements and it's really annoying. Also, the first thing to do is restart until the Pope calls a crusade for Alexandria and not Andalusia. The former means blessed respite from the Abassids, whilst the latter means one has to endure the onslaught of a (mostly) unified Islamic world.

Perhaps the byzantine empire. It's a lot closer than the HRE.

Monk

06-03-2013, 14:24

Surely Zoroastrian inbreeding would lead to many undesirable traits?

You can usually get away with inbreeding as long as you don't compound the incest too heavily. You still get the bonus if you marry half-sisters, so marrying sons to daughters of concubines is a good way to break up the bad genes. You can usually avoid almost all the big pitfalls of bad traits if you're careful about that and a little lucky. Low health values are another thing, though. :no:

OK i decided to put Antioch on the backburner until I get the hang of CK2. I started with the count of Vestland (the province in Iceland which has Reykjavik). I discovered the joys of the ruler builder, which is paramount when starting so small. I managed to conquer my neighbour in Iceland mainly because of my ruler having 22 combat, and my marshal having >14 at the start. I reformed the duchy - Petty Kingdom of Iceland, and started my raids.

My two sons - Ragnar and Thorkel (whom I personally named and discovered how much more immersive the game becomes when one name's one's sons) became great warriors and leaders (it helped that they had a Genius father). Ragnar won fame and fortune with the Varangian guard, and Thorkel was sadly denied his chance when he asked, because he at the time had 21 combat and was the realms marshal.

With just the troops from the two counties we raided Ireland every summer. The fleet of 7 longboats soon become larger, as we managed to conquer two independent counties in Norway, as well as the Faroe islands. The old king died at age 79, leaving his sons a raiding navy of 30 longships and a 1500 strong army of mostly upgraded heavy infantry. Naturally, Ragnar returned from Contsantinople a few years before his father died, and even though he was the son of a concubine, he managed to keep his kingdom. Throkel, who was the more capable leader, never did manage submit, and so was beaten with the help of the levies in Norway. He was then released from prison (after his title was revoked), and was reinstated as Marshall. Sadly, Thorkel lost his life at age 52, and will be remembered as the most fierce fighter and general Iceland had yet born.

His half-brother Askelad was given reign in Norway, while King Ragnar continued consolidating his position and raiding. At the peak of his reign, he would haul 340 units of gold and valuables per trip, and so gradually the capital of Iceland became a flourishing castle and had a sturdy foundation of military and civil infrastructure.

Ragnar's son had to deal with the rising threat of a petty kingdom in Norway, which had an ambitious ruler who had managed to conquer almost all of the necessary counties to form the Kingdom. Had it not been for the vast treasury accumulated from raiding, Iceland would have been subjugated. The petty Kingdom was neutralized but the garrisons proved too firm to be broken by the battered remains of the Icelandic army and the Scottish Band company of mercenaries. By the time we returned next year, our good friend and father in law the King of Sweden, had conquered all of Norway. Despite numerous key marriages, it seems that sooner or later we will have to deal with the larger duchies of Sweden (as the old king is 74 and his heir has not reached manhood yet).

The path before Iceland is now to continue with the yearly raids on Ireland, Wales, England and France and consolidate the young King's fresh rule (especially preparing for Askeladd's departure from this world, as his son does not have as much respect for his King) and then attempt to hire mercenaries and transport them to reclaim the Norwegian counties from the greedy Swedish dukes. It appears though, that transportation is the bane of Icelandic expansionist desires, as not being able to move our full force in one fleet severely hinders our mobility, and we don't have the capacity to fight a combined Swedish army.

:thumbsup:

For Antioch, swearing fealty to the Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire might indeed be the way, but the new factions feature chops the game up with faction announcements and it's really annoying.

Right click on the message and set it to a low priority message, that way it will appear in the upper right instead of a pop-up and won't pause the game.

Myth

06-03-2013, 22:28

I made it work! I'm now King of Anatolia! Antioch on the highest difficulty setting is possible indeed :laugh4:

Monk

06-04-2013, 03:28

From the official forums for CK2 (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?692910-Is-a-hotfix-coming-out):

There is a patch coming, although I would not call it a hotfix. I plan to make this available as a Steam beta patch on Wednesday afternoon, to be officially released next week. The next round of DLCs will be coming out with the patch after that, in late June.

Hold on tight!

...Wait what DLC?

The Celtic Portraits, Units and the Dynasty CoA Pack 3.

Oh my.

DoomDark also reports there should be full save compatibility with games started in 1.10.

I made it work! I'm now King of Anatolia! Antioch on the highest difficulty setting is possible indeed

Not so fast! I demand screenshots! :grin2:

naut

06-04-2013, 06:05

Well, last night I had one of the most enjoyable sequences of events in CK2 so far, I cannot recommend Additional Objectives 2.0 (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?690552-Additional-Objectives-2.0-Brand-New-Ambitions-and-Plots) (PB compatible) highly enough! That being said the mod still needs work, for larger realms the plots can get ridiculous and the backers often don't make sense. Regardless, I will regale you:

---

It was in 869--summer. Russia was far away from the world, and asleep; it was still the Dark Ages in Russia, and promised to remain so forever, or so it was thought.

https://i.imgur.com/PsVGHOv.jpg

The shadows of courtly intrigues had rudely awoken the nation; the realm was abuzz and rumbling at the latest scandal. The High Chief, Rurik Severus of the Severians, had had his manhood and honour dragged through the dirt. The offence, a cuckolding by a simple Baron who had seduced, or been seduced by, a girl of the Chieftain's Harem; and in the passing months had fallen pregnant to him, bringing a disgracing child into the arms of the court.

The Chief was no man to trifle with and was not best pleased at this lowly vassal's audacity.

The Chief
The Concubine
The Child

https://i.imgur.com/LnuImyJ.jpg?2
https://i.imgur.com/Tw5DXmh.jpg?4
https://i.imgur.com/wCe81tg.jpg

A rage was building in the Chief, a man not known for his kindness or patience; for even his sense of justice had been offended. A towering rage that demanded satisfaction, a rage that Rurik sought to appease by becoming this upstart Baron's ruination. A plot was laid to frame the Baron for treasons against the realm. A plot easily fabricated, and once achieved the man was soon enough imprisoned.

The Baron

https://i.imgur.com/LOrxjnH.jpg

Having stripped the man of his rights and freedom the irate Chief still would not abate, he would not relent until the man was truly broken. He set about to take the man's wife and love while he, stranded in a prison cell, could do nothing to its prevention. An eye for an eye, and a cuckolding for a cuckolding.

The Wife

https://i.imgur.com/PzGKoUf.jpg

The two lovers spent many a day and night together, perhaps spurred on by the nature of their lusts and situation, I cannot say--but by and by there was a child.

https://i.imgur.com/ttiyvGA.jpg
(Event is from the VIET mod, another mod I highly recommend!)

The Son

https://i.imgur.com/REy5Ld3.jpg

He had had everything he held dear slowly stripped away; his freedom and his wife. Still, there was yet one last thing to strip him of--his life.

https://i.imgur.com/RYWcqep.jpg

The execution went along swimmingly, and with it the hereditary property.

https://i.imgur.com/RGfKqcy.jpg

---

Thankfully this is CK2 not the Godfather or Princess Bride, or Rurik would likely be staring his own ruination straight in the face in the coming years.

xploring

06-04-2013, 15:24

2 more years of expansions for CK2 (https://twitter.com/producerjohan/status/341505597478432768)! :rolleyes5:

Myth

06-04-2013, 15:59

Antioch: Rise of the Crusader Kingdom of Anatolia

Year of our Lord 1187 - Outremer, Independent Duchy of Antioch

"We arrived trough much perils, following the footsteps of many a noble knight and pious soul, our predecessors in spirit, if not in blood. We came here, and we found that our Lord's work has but just begun, and the trials we must needs endure for our faith are a great many."

Peter d'Anjou, Duke of Antioch

I begin this tale, knowing full well that I might be scorned by my peers for putting to ink the life of Duke Peter of Antioch. I nevertheless feel it important for his actions to be preserved for the future generations, so that they may yet benefit from the wisdom of seeing how doing the Lord's work might require hard decisions upon men who are pure of soul and sound of mind, turning them into devils in the eyes of family and folk.

Duke Peter came from France on a mission to stabilize the Greek coastal counties of Aintioch, conquered a century ago by the holy assembly commissioned by His Holiness Urban II. His God given task was not made easy, as the King of Jerusalem had secured the loyalty of both the Hospitallier and the Templar Holy Orders, and he owed little respect to a newcomer to the Levant. The situation was, as my liege had assessed - most dire. Antioch was small, surrounded by hostile Muslim empires. Salah-ad-Din to the south, was biding his time and eyeing Jerusalem and all nearby Christian holdings, and the infidel Saracens of the East, the successors of Nur-ad-Din, had nothing to occupy them but their desire to scour from Syria those of us who had taken up the cross. Perhaps the greatest threat was the imminent calling of Jihad by the two Caliphs, which would amass a horde of Saracens upon our lands, that would rival the Plague of Locusts unleashed on the heathen Egyptians of ancient times.

The Duke, in his wisdom, decided to marry a most suitable young wife, not caring for her secular titles or standing amongst men, but seeing into her eyes the virtues which a wife and ruler must possess. His Grace was at the time, fifty years of age, but nevertheless an outstanding warrior, a genius and a man of patience. His wife, whilst not matching in his military expertise, was of a wit as nimble as my Lords', and with an uncanny talent for stewardship, which made it possible to perform miracles of the quill and ledger for our Duchy. It took but a simple glance at the impending storm to the east and south, and the cool relations with the Kingdom of Jerusalem, for our ruler and his wife to quickly decide and swear fealty to the Basileos of the Eatern Roman Empire. I believe this move, whilst opposed by those of Frankish descent and of the Catholic faith, was nevertheless important and the primary reason why we were not swept away before the terrible might of Islam and its hordes. The Basileos, Komnenos II, was an old man, yet capable and strong. His armies were at the time, vastly superior to those of Antioch and Jerusalem, and sufficient to deter all but the most organized aggression of the Muslims.

It is then, no doubt with the advice of his young, genius wife, that His Grace performed the first of his three crimes that so mar his name.This first crime, was of a secular nature, and happened not days after he climbed off the ship that had ferried him from Genoa to Antich. The decision, whilst in his right as Duke, was nevertheless seen as an outrageous display of tyrannical power by the then assembled court of the Duchy. His Grace Duke Peter stripped all of his vassals of their titles, imprisoned the then appointed Marshall of the Realm, and subsequently disinherited and forthwith banished most of them. Those whom he did not banish, he married off matrilineally, and the younglings he betrothed and did not care to appoint guardians to school them in proper courtly manners and Christian values. I must now add, that all who were married or betrothed, were done so to members of the high nobility of Europe, which was not required of my liege, but rather an act of benevolence which few now acknowledge.

In hindsight I can now see why my Liege had decided against swearing fealty to Baldwin of Jerusalem and instead looked to the more loosely governed realm of the Roman Empire. Baldwin was a strict and pious man, as was expected of those noble knights who would bear the cross to Outremer. He would not stand or allow Duke Peter's desires to revoke the titles of his vassals, nor would he sit idly as Antioch's levies grew in strength and number. I must also note, that while both our ruler and his wife remained Catholic and His Grace never betrayed the traditions of the Franks, the common folk in his Duchy were and still are to this day, Greeks (and only recently did they convert to Catholicism, under our current ruler Tristan d'Anjou, King of Anatolia).

I must state formally in these writings, that whilst undoubtedly harsh, these actions of revoking the lands and titles of his vassals are without a doubt what saved our Duchy's relative independence within the Empire, as well as ensured the well being of the house and set up the prosperity of this glorious bloodline. As he wrested control of all four Antiochean baronies, as well as a bishoparic and the city itself, Duke Peter secured his personal power with the unquestioned advantage of obtaining the full levy of all his holdings. Whilst he was not an involved mayor, the tax income and port tithes from the City of Antioch proved invaluable to our fledgling realm. So it is then, that this humble scribe asks you, the noble reader, to consider the actions of the future King of Anatolia on their merit, and not on the harsh words most would spill.

With the formidable troops he had outfitted, and the new court he quickly assembled, the Duke then set forth not to press his De Jure claim on the nearby county ruled by the Hashashin, but instead to turn his gaze on Cyprus. A claim had surfaced for Duke Peter, and he went on to press it, only to be beaten to the storming of Nicosia by a Greek Doux, who had similar intentions of expansion. Meanwhile the baronies of Antioch had seen an unprecedented boom of building, and many masons and woodworkers were assembled to undertake the vast projects of construction, with more arriving from Europe every day.

It is at that point that Duke Peter turned his gaze north, towards the never ending war the Basileos lead versus the hordes of the Seljuks. Much to our surprise, news reached us that His Holiness, following the completion of the Crusade for Andalusia, of which we had little news, had commissioned a new one, on Anatolia itself, in aid to the Orthodox Christians of the Eastern Roman Empire. Why my Duke had not received word of this glorious call to arms earlier, I may not speculate, though I think his personal matters of succession weighed heavily on his mind at the time. His wife, while quite worthy, had been still childless. My Lord the Duke of Antioch, whilst possessed of many fine qualities, had the vice of being quite lustful. As such, he laid with the wife of one of his courtiers, whose name now escapes me, and she took with child soon thereafter.

At the time when Antioch joined the Holy Crusade for Anatolia, the Duke had not one but two legitimate sons, as well as a bastard he formally recognized. Feeling secure with matters of succession for now, he set of to do God's work against the heathen Turks. However this adultery and betrayal of his wife, is considered by some, to be Duke Peter's second sin before Godand his noble wife. However, as she was possessed of an intellect peerless amongst Christians and heathens alike, only matched by that of the Duke himself, It was quite clear she well understood the need for a male heir, and why it had been necessary at the time, prior to her bearing her oldest son Tristan, for this transgression happened whilst we had not received the revelation that she had been with child. It is also my personal observation that the good Lady had forgiven her husband, as she had long since set her ambitions on expanding his influence.

The Holy Crusade for Anatolia was a bloody business of much turmoil and peril. Duke Peter was a genius commander, but the hordes of the Turks were well beyond what our levy could match. Only because of the mettle of our knights and the stern instruction of the realm's Marshall, were we able to win more victories for God than anyone expected of us. I think this is also the case, why later the new Pope would award the victory of the Crusade to His Grace Duke Peter, despite the efforts of the King of Sicily, who threw many men and horses into this war, as well as vast amounts of gold. One must also note the complete lack of involvement of Jerusalem and their two Holy Orders, which I will attribute to the Jihad called upon them by Salah-ad-Din, as well as the valorous deeds of our troops as well as some minor mercenary companies which the Duke employed, as his coffers were overflowing under the wise and cunning care of his wife.

I know of a specific scholar, employed by the King of Sicilly, who furiously defends his Liege's right to had been named victor of the Crusade, and to him I say - it was as much the will of God almighty, as was the skill at arms of our valorous Duke and his men, which determined the victor. That his Holiness would see our zealous involvement as a greater contribution than the vast armies which Sicilly levied and brought to the field, would speak of his unparalleled wisdom. To doubt him is to blaspheme.

After the completion of this most Holy task, Peter d'Anjou was given sovereignty over the crown of the Kingdom of Anatolia, and even at his advanced age of 70, he knew then that there was much work to be done in this realm, in the name of God and his liege-lord the Basileos. Of the Greeks I must say, they strike me as an odd mix. They are constantly fighting amongst one another, grabbing at power and bickering over laws, yet when a horde of thirty thousand Saracens comes battering down the doors of Antioch, the Basileos raises mighty armies and swiftly crushes them with the force of united Christendom.

And now, when talking of laws, I must mention the third, and most grave crime that my lord did commit, before the eyes of God and his subjects, but most harshly seen in the eyes of his noble lady wife, the Queen of Anatolia and Duchess of Antioch. In the quarter of a century in which we have been a part of the Eastern Roman Empire, we had enjoyed respite from their incessant internal bickering, most probably because my liege never vied for power and never sought a consular position nor lusted at the throne in Constantinople. And while I suspect thoughts of independence did cross his mind at times, the ever present Muslim threat saw it that our benefit from the hosts of the Basileos was vastly superior to the temptation of ruling alone. As such, we had, and still must, abide by Imperial law. It is quite unfortunate then, that due to the Basileos being too lax with his vassals (of which we were reaping the benefits of lower taxation and freedom for our levies), His Majesty the King of Anatolia could not set his own laws of succession.

For those of you who are not versed in such scholarly matters, the succession most favoured by the House of Anjou has been Gavelkind. Unfortunately, because Peter was King and owned the titles of two duchies, his oldest son Tristan would inherit them, but not the vital counties in Antioch or the baronies contained within. And yet these counties and especially the castles in the baronies, are what has made us so formidable and such a powerful vassal of the Basileos as to discourage meddling in our internal affairs. The situation at the end of King Peter's life was such, that his younger son and his legitmized bastard would inherit the two Counties, and thus would wield more power than their older brother, who would be King in title, but not by force of arms. Considering the fact that the two younger boys were born much later, and were still adolescent, their powerful counties would be ruled by regents. As such, the well being of the Kingdom and indeed the whole House of Anjou in Outremer hanged in the balance. In order for the Lord's work to be continued and for our good Christian realm to subjugate the heathens of Rum once and for all, as well as in answer to the now vast threat of the Abbasid Calihpate, who had conquered all the way north to Syria proper, my King and liege took action.

In a single night of horror and despair, he ordered his two young boys seized, thrown in prison and executed, even as he was incapable of actual ruling (as he was already of very advanced age and bedridden, his old wounds of war now taking their toll on his frail health). I know there would be no way to redeem such actions before God and men alike, and I shall remember for ever with horror the bitter screams of sorrow and the days of crying of the Queen Mother after the deed had been done. My liege spent the last of his days praying, with a plain wooden crucifix barely held in his weak hands. He was unable to stand and he spoke with barely but a whisper on his lips. His eyes stared without understanding, either at the ceiling or outside the tiny window in his dank room, yet sometimes, on rare occasion, they would gleam with the clarity and edge I remember from the days of youth of this most remarkable man. I should also mention that at the time, I was the one left to attend him, as all the servants had abandoned King Peter for his young, charismatic son Tristan, who was the de-facto ruler of Anatolia and Antioch.

There were new wars to lead, new diplomacy to consider, levies to raise... And yet, I think that even as his brothers' tiny, blond haired heads rolled on the courtyard floor, Prince Tristan knew full well why this had been a most necessary evil. Then, at the year of our Lord 1261, as we were discussing the recent news of a new warlord to the far east, King Peter I of Anatolia, Duke of Antioch, and count and baron to so many peerages I shan't even attempt to list them, passed away in his bedchamber, shunned by all but this most loyal scribe and historian. And while we must be thankful that the court and the petty nobles saw young Tristan as a liberator and had fresh hopes invested in him, we must nevertheless, remember the man who fashioned a Kingdom out of a duchy which most had long since condemned to Islamic conquest.

Written in the Year of our Lord 1264, by Abbot Bernard Cantor, royal historian of House Anjou and he Kingdom of Anatolia.

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-05-2013, 01:58

I started a game as Georgia. Put it on hold to try the Duke of Courland, but it's a sticky situation. I have the de jure lands of Georgia except for I think a county or two the Byzantines hold, plus the duke of Abkazia (?) has stolen most of Alania from the pagans. I'm a rough position because he has way more land than I do, and my four counties are going to be split between two sons (and I can't bring myself to just off one or the other). I'm pretty sure either the turks or Byzantines are going to steamroll me. I may just bend the knee to the Greeks but they have High crown authority already and that's stifling.

Monk

06-05-2013, 06:52

Excellent stuff guys ~D

Myth - Uh oh.. it's got its claws in you now. There's no going back. One of us. One of us! Full revocation is a very extremist tactic, but it's something that you can always fall back on in last resort situations. I'd say the Crusader States are likely one of the hardest starts in the game. No question. Quite impressed by your survival!

Gelatinous Cube - Think you can keep that momentum? Decadence is a killer but I always found that unless i could solve the main problem (through murder, most the time!) I could never stay ahead of it through holy war alone.

Here's a few shots from my ongoing game. I haven't had a chance to play much beyond where I last left off, but the AI is doing some insanely cool things while I am building my empire in the east. More musings on the AI and Project Balance, which is fast becoming the best mod for CK2 imo.

https://i.imgur.com/2jam9SB.jpg https://i.imgur.com/QU39AMf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/T7NOw4U.jpg
United England and Scotland beneath the Yngling Dynasty. These two women, who have come to power without any aid from me or relaxed female ruler penalties (which i normally run) are the two most powerful women in the known world right now. They are direct descendants (about 4 generations removed) from Ivar the Boneless and are sisters. Together they pretty much rule the North Seas.

Central Europe is in Chaos with the collapse of the Karling hegemony. The title of East Francia has been destroyed and no longer has a holder. Petty kingdoms thrive in the chaos after its fall with Saxony and Bavaria being the strongest of the central Germanic realms. Lotharingia holds fast with one of the last Karling kings but finds itself surrounded by enemies. It has very few allies.

https://i.imgur.com/B1l6smD.jpg

The Capets have risen in Northern France but their power is overshadowed by Aquitaine. The last truly powerful Karling realm left, it is the strongest kingdom in Europe. Currently engaged in heavy fighting against Muslim Iberia, they've already taken quite a few holdings, namely the entirety of Aragon.

https://i.imgur.com/3ETvh5Y.jpg

The Baltic is a mess. Rurik died a broken and failed adventurer unable to secure his dynasty. None have been able to secure a powerbase among the many warring slavic tribes, but the newly formed Novgorodian Kingdom could very well be the one to do it.

The Steppes are ruled by the Khazaria Khanate controlled by the Cumans. Their size is due to a meteoric rise in toppling the Crimea based Pecheneg Khans. The Crimean Khanate, which once stretched from Hungary to the fringes of the Persian Sultanate, collapsed in succession crisis not 15 years ago.. allowing the Cuman rise to power.

I am endlessly fascinated by this game.

Myth

06-05-2013, 08:14

Thanks! This game is indeed very addicting and immersive, and plus it's (as far as I can tell) very historically accurate, to the point where one can use it to learn about feodalism, medieval warfare and the different houses, kingdoms, dynasties and so on.

Now, also I beg to differ, but I didn't start with the Crusader States. I started with the two-county Duchy of Antioch, which is IMO a whole lot worse than the Kingdom of Jerusalem. So I actually feel pretty good about my achievement. I must admit that having beginner's luck in winning that crusade for Anatolia really helped me out. I also secured another county and Ducal title (the latter actually a hindrance) from the new Basilea (yes, a woman) of the ERE, as she was flat broke after a holy war against miserable, three county Rum in which the rabid Abassid empire eagerly plunged in.

Now we have a Crusade for Jerusalem, and the Abassids are successfully holding off half of Crhistendom (which is quite impressive). I must admit I'm not playing ironman (as this game is supposed to be played IMO) and use copious loading, but then again I didn't exactly pick the easiest starting position.

Now, if I somehow, against all odds I manage to win the Crusade for Jerusalem, I think I will be safe to establish a large Crusader kingdom and war for independence with the Basilea of the ERE (who is now very, very weary of Tristan I of Anatolia). I'm also pondering a fresh start with the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Honestly, I think the AI just squandered the golden position this powerful faction has. They managed to completely botch things up and let the Abassids reduce them to a few counties. The KOJ has the allegiance of both the Hospitallier and Templar holy orders which was something I sorely missed as lowly Antioch.

The Hospitalliers and Templars allow the sub-par AI to hold off double Jihads on Jerusalem and actually had the AI not squandred their manpower they would have been enough to end Salah-ad-Din. 14000 troops, mostly heavy infantry and a great number of heavy cavalry, is nothing to sneeze at. I think that if I start with Jerusalem I can eliminate the Abassids, and if I manage to grab that Teutonic Order stack, then nothing short of the Mongols or a very strong ERE will be able to stop me. Speaking of the Teutonic Order, I see their army just camping in some backwater ERE province in Asia Minor, not doing anything and not being up for recruiting. Is that a bug?

Anyway, this game caused me much sleep deprivation, as I played it non-stop during the weekend and then on Monday and Tuesday night until the early hours (and I get up for work so...). Last Night I gave a try of 1066 but I started as a small count in Sicilly. I managed to secure several counties and overthrew the yoke of the newly formed Kingdom of Sicilly, but not before the stupid AI king did the damage of lowering crown authority so I can't set my succession to Primagenitor, so now it's execution time I suppose.

As far as playing Christians during the Old Gods start date, I think I will try the Eastern Frankish Empire, as I'm a huge fan of Charlemagne. I can also try Bulgaria, being Bulgarian and all :yes:

rvg

06-05-2013, 16:07

2 more years of expansions for CK2 (https://twitter.com/producerjohan/status/341505597478432768)! :rolleyes5:

I wonder what's next.

komnenos

06-05-2013, 18:08

I really like that they make another expansion to make Hashashins playable and also make Mayors or barons playable! And expand the game for starting it 200 years earlier than 867!! :laugh:

Ibn-Khaldun

06-05-2013, 19:18

I really like that they make another expansion to make Hashashins playable and also make Mayors or barons playable! And expand the game for starting it 200 years earlier than 867!! :laugh:

Rise of Islam? Would like to see a that kind of DLC.

Myth

06-05-2013, 22:04

Playable barons is not really feasible IMO.

Hooahguy

06-05-2013, 22:37

Just finished season 3 of The Tudors, really makes me want to jump back into CKII again.

Beskar

06-06-2013, 00:51

Chaotix

06-06-2013, 01:25

I have to admit, I dislike running huge areas like that. So congratulations!

Biggest I did was recreating the Roman Empire but extended it, leaving a border with Russia. Those independent/etc wars were sure a pain though!

Agreed. Anything even half the size of the Roman Empire and the game becomes more about micromanaging vassals than anything else. Along with the inevitable revolts with every succession. There's no challenge in fighting wars anymore once you get that big, so really it's just about holding it all together.

I love making a big empire but once it reaches a certain point I kind of want to stop and do something else. I can only keep going if I have a specific goal in mind.

Beskar

06-06-2013, 01:32

I love making a big empire but once it reaches a certain point I kind of want to stop and do something else. I can only keep going if I have a specific goal in mind.

Same here. I am far happier to be a non-colonising power in EU3 for example and hold lets say, France area to myself and just out muscle everyone tech, economically and military.

Monk

06-06-2013, 03:50

Huge beta patch is now on Steam. Only steam users have access to it and you'll need to opt into it. Full release next week. Patch notes below:

MAJOR:
- Added a "Retract Vassal" interaction
- Disallowed destruction of non-titular titles under Gavelkind

INTERFACE:
- Added lots of portrait fixes from the "CK2 Portrait Fixes" mod by zebez
- Adjusted the random CoA colors and color choices
- Scripted a lot of CoAs for various dynasties
- The CoAs of titles named after a dynasty now match the dynasty CoA
- Bishops no longer wear pope hats, but the pope does
- Livonia now has the correct pagan flag
- Buildings requiring a coastal province now show up in the tech tooltip even if the capital is not coastal
- Fixed some tooltips in the settlement view not showing building levels with the name
- Nicknames are now shown for heads of religion
- The 'Grant Independence' action is no longer even shown if the recipient is not your vassal
- The 'Prepare Invasion' action is now shown but grayed out if you are at war with the recipient
- Added missing Bektashi religion description
- Endgame screen now shows correct score for characters
- Added missing name of the Reformed Aztec Church title
- Tweaked the religion colors to make them more distinct
- Corrected some event text typos

GAMEPLAY:
- Norse Pagans can no longer employ the coastal conquest CB against other pagans (neighboring counties can still be taken though)
- The Subjugation CB can now only be used once per lifetime instead of every 10 years. (Unless you have the 'Become King' ambition.)
- Characters with the "Become King" ambition and access to the subjugation CB can no longer move their capital out of the de jure kingdom
- Subjugated rulers of another religion now get a smaller opinion bonus vs the winner, lasting for a shorter time
- Fixed a bug with many vassalizing casus bellis where the target's own counties would be seized when they should not be
- Tengri Pagans are now limited to Agnatic succession
- The Jomsvikings now reform if the Norse reformation takes place
- Fixed an issue where the primary heir under Gavelkind would not inherit the capital county
- West African pagans can now also raid
- Lowered the spawn rate of TOG rebels by 20%
- Added the "Ghanan Band" mercenary company
- Slavic, Baltic and Finnish Pagans now get a bonus to their levy sizes, at the cost of their garrison bonus
- Fixed a problem with the decadence invasion event
- Fixed a bug with decadence revolts ending strangely on the attacking ruler's death
- Court Chaplain job events no longer restricted to men for pagans
- Made the Chancellor job to improve relations more effective
- Mercenary ships will no longer spawn in major rivers
- The Viking trait can now only be gained by adults
- Heirs returning from the Varangian Guard to take the throne of their dead father can no longer get the same event twice
- Piast the Wheelwright and his son are now of the Piast dynasty
- Pagan festivals can now only be held in summer as intended
- City Shipyards now produce slightly more galleys than their Castle and Temple counterparts
- Fixed a bug where banishing landed vassals would not take all their titles
- Under Gavelkind, your oldest son will no longer ask for titles
- Added additional names and dynasties for Roman characters created in the Ruler Designer
- Added an earlier king of Ireland to make Irish liberation revolts possible
- 867: Strengthened the coastal Baltic, Slavic and Finnish tribes with better Holdings
- 867: Slightly strengthened the initial forces of Ivar and Halfdan
- 867: The Karling kingdoms are now on Agnatic succession
- 867: Moved Uglich from the Meryas to the Vyatichi
- 867: Byzantium is now properly on Primogeniture, not Gavelkind
- 867: The Duchy of Meath now exists, called "Tara" by the Irish
- 867: Made some important vassals to the King of Italy Italian culture to prolong the survival of the culture and ensure more internal troubles
- 867: Adjusted the initial political and dynastic setup among the Baltic tribes to make them more resilient
- The vassal opinion for free investiture law now correctly only applies for Catholics
- Build cost and time is now affected by your capital tech, not the average tech in your realm
- Ignoring pagan defensive attrition is now controlled by your capital tech, not by the average tech in your realm
- Own fort level no longer affects ability to navigate major rivers
- Tweaked the AI bonuses on Hard and Very Hard difficulty settings
- Successful non-claimant adventurers are now known as "the Conqueror"
- Fixed a bug with weird dynasty names for the commanders of Liberation rebels
- Castrating or blinding a prisoner now removes the righteous imprisonment cause when they are released
- The ambition to gain a council position now only increases a skill the first time it is successful
- The generic Pagan religion now has a description and holy sites
- Added the Hellenic religion
- The events when certain cities are sacked now properly trigger for the Mongol Empire
- The event when you raise a runestone as a zealous Reformed Norse character no longer treats you as a Christian
- Captured Rebel leaders now have a "Broken Spirit" modifier, making them pretty useless
- Fixed a bug where Gavelkind could produce republics
- Fixed a general bug with multiple kingdom inheritance that could produce republics
- The decision to create the Kingdom of Leon now makes it a de jure part of the Empire of Hispania
- Trade posts are no longer counted towards the Prepared Invasion realm size limits
- Fixed a bug with being able to semi-grant invalid duchies and kingdoms to your heir under Gavelkind
- Heathen priests can now inherit titles
- Mayors and heathen priests will now marry if they are heirs to other titles
- Lack of Piety rumor event now only triggers for Christian lieges as intended
- Trade post garrisons now give less retinue cap increase
- Moved the counties of Loon and Julich from de jure Cologne to Luxemburg
- Technology points are now gained by own demesne when containing buildings that give technology points

AI:
- Will not convert to Norman culture if in a huge Norse empire
- Higher prio on building temple towns
- Adjusted propensity to backstab brothers of the faith who are primary parties in holy wars
- Behaviour is now affected subtly by the difficulty settings
- Tweaked max field army sizes a bit
- Will not agree to concubinage for title claimants

MODDING:
- Exported BASE_REVOLT_CHANCE_MOD and TOG_REVOLT_CHANCE_MOD to defines
- Added a 'can_appear' field to dynasties to prevent for example the Seljuks from appearing before their event

Hooahguy

06-06-2013, 07:16

Something which has been troubling in my recent 4 hours of playing today is that there doesnt seem to be a way to clearly see which lands are yours. Currently Im playing as a duke in England, formerly King of Scotland and Ireland. Pretty spectacular downfall, Id say, I mentioned it here before. Anyhow, after a slew of wars my current king died at 40-something from a heart attack leaving no heir, as all of them died as children except for one who died of the plague or something after he married and had kids, which sucked. Anyhow, his grandson or something became ruler so that kind of messed up my precious few lands that I held to a point where I really have no clue which lands i own. I thought I could go to my titles bar and check there so I thought I knew everything, but then when civil war arises I find that I held another province somewhere else that I had no knowledge of. Anyone know how I can find out what exactly I own/my vassals own?

Monk

06-06-2013, 07:21

Something which has been troubling in my recent 4 hours of playing today is that there doesnt seem to be a way to clearly see which lands are yours.

The direct vassals map shows which areas of land belong to which primary title. If a character's primary title is the Kingdom of Scotland and he owns three counties near one another, it will appear as a blue blot on the direct vassals map as "Scotland."

You can use that map to see which characters directly control the most land

Myth

06-06-2013, 11:32

Can you more experienced players post any tips for taking on a much larger faction than your own in a predominantly land-based war?

Hooahguy

06-06-2013, 16:37

Not an experienced player, but really the only way I see that a small faction can take on a larger faction is the use of mercenaries.

EDIT: Also, is there any way to totally give up a province? Because right now my new ruler has a bunch of provinces in Ireland and two random ones in Bavaria, and they are really causing problems for me so Id really like to just give up those two provinces in mainland Europe and concentrate on Ireland.

rvg

06-06-2013, 18:52

EDIT: Also, is there any way to totally give up a province? Because right now my new ruler has a bunch of provinces in Ireland and two random ones in Bavaria, and they are really causing problems for me so Id really like to just give up those two provinces in mainland Europe and concentrate on Ireland.

Install a count and grant him independence, no?

Hooahguy

06-06-2013, 19:00

I dont think I have a count, but Im pretty sure I have a bunch of barons. I tried to give off those lands but the option was not there to give them away. Im not sure why. I might reload to before my last duke died and assassinate the heir so the other heir, with no random areas in Bavaria will be able to take over without as much drama.

naut

06-06-2013, 20:29

Can you more experienced players post any tips for taking on a much larger faction than your own in a predominantly land-based war?
The best option (unless you have money for mercs) is to hit and run before they doom stack. Also bait them into favourable defensive terrain (hills, over rivers, etc).

If you are fast enough you can often also bait and switch before they doom stack.

I dont think I have a count, but Im pretty sure I have a bunch of barons. I tried to give off those lands but the option was not there to give them away. Im not sure why. I might reload to before my last duke died and assassinate the heir so the other heir, with no random areas in Bavaria will be able to take over without as much drama.
Random barons? Transfer vassalage to the count they are located in.

Chaotix

06-06-2013, 21:04

If you're at 100% decadence, you will sooner or later get hit with a Decadence Invasion.

Some county will revolt and come at you with roughly as many troops as you can muster in your entire realm. And they're all attrition free.

You'll also lose 50% decadence. But as soon as it jumps back up, you're susceptible to getting another one.

The way I handled decadence the last time I played Muslims was by keeping my dynasty very small. I was playing as Rum, so it eventually meant assassinating all of my Seljuk cousins. I also revoked or killed all of my vassal relatives and kept only my desmesne under Seljuk rule. Then give your designated heir a county and imprison the rest after he inherits. Rinse/repeat. With such a small dynasty you rarely gain any decadence, though it can be dangerous not knowing whether you'll have an heir.

rickinator9

06-07-2013, 03:12

Hit their separate stacks when they are besieging provinces. They should split up.

Myth

06-07-2013, 11:43

That's great and I'm certainly doing it, but the problem with the ERE and the war for Anatolia is that it's all landlocked so I can't really outspeed them wit clever navy use.

Also, how can I get the TO hochmeister as my vassal? Their ginormous stack is just sitting theren in an ERE province and they have apparently been kicked out of the baltic. I tried granting them a county and he was happy and all, but still did not accept being my vassal. However the KOJ still has the hospitalliers and templars as its vassal.

rickinator9

06-07-2013, 12:14

That's great and I'm certainly doing it, but the problem with the ERE and the war for Anatolia is that it's all landlocked so I can't really outspeed them wit clever navy use.

Always reserve 250 or so gold for mercenaries when you're small or have big blobs next to you to get mercenaries. I especially found horse archer mercenaries very good.

Also, how can I get the TO hochmeister as my vassal? Their ginormous stack is just sitting theren in an ERE province and they have apparently been kicked out of the baltic. I tried granting them a county and he was happy and all, but still did not accept being my vassal. However the KOJ still has the hospitalliers and templars as its vassal.

No idea. I never really played in the holy land. Perhaps it is not possible and Jerusalem just starts with them vassalised. Or this may still work: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?596869-Holy-Orders-and-Vassalising-them

Monk

06-08-2013, 04:04

I've said this before. I will say it again. This has got to be the greatest moment i've ever witnessed. Playing with Project Balance, what you are about to see is thanks to the duel engine which Meneth included in the mod's development... This engine was adapted from the Game of Thrones mod.. and is just about the most glorious thing i've ever seen. It's insanely high risk (you can be killed VERY easily) but my god.. moments like this guys.. it's moments like this.

Three mega powers locked in bitter struggle with one another. On one side, the Karen Shahdom of Persia defends the Satropy of Hamadan against the beligerants. On the other, the Sunni Calliphate of Arabia, with their allies the Tulunid Sultanate of Egypt, fight to retake Hamadan from Zoroastrian hands and restore Sunni rule in a Holy War.

https://i.imgur.com/tN26KbJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IvyyjuA.jpg

The two sides have been struggling for the last two years. The first battle at Dezbar completely destroyed the allied forces of the Abbasids. But now it's 956 and the Caliph's strength is rebuilt. He's back for round two at the Battle of Aligoodarz. He's got the upper hand, the Shah is on the ropes and despite having a numerical advantage, the morale of the Persian forces wavers... until...

Through the chaos the two men meet. Shah and Caliph. King and Emperor. They circle each other. Tense. Kingdom against Empire, Sunni against Zoroastrian, it has all been forgotten, all been boiled down to this one fight. Man against man.

https://i.imgur.com/aoYvaDn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wLRTJdb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UGVfSJg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ukZMf7J.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4nt6X26.jpg

The Caliph lies defeated. The men around the moment of personal combat stand in awe. Their religious leader is at the mercy of his enemy. Their enemy.. and mercy is granted. Captured, the Caliph knows his war is over. The Shahdom of Persia has just defeated its two most powerful rivals as the entire world watched.

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-08-2013, 14:20

Ha, they didn't even change the graphics from AGOT.

All told, does Project Balance change more or less than E&B, Monk?

naut

06-08-2013, 15:58

Ha, they didn't even change the graphics from AGOT.

All told, does Project Balance change more or less than E&B, Monk?
PB doesn't make sweeping changes, it makes subtle changes that are aimed towards less volatile AI behaviour and a slower, but more deliberate game.

For me the most welcome changes are slower levy reinforcement, meaning less early game snowballing by medium-large realms. It also means the player can't do the same obviously. The other I appreciate is the law system, which has been broadened. Especially the changes to Crown Laws, which make for a more interesting 'per ruler' rule change.

Monk

06-08-2013, 16:14

Ha, they didn't even change the graphics from AGOT.

All told, does Project Balance change more or less than E&B, Monk?

In a broad sense it changes much more than my mod but does so in the same style I would mod in. Lots of little changes that add up to a better whole. PB used to be completely obnoxious in the trait restrictions/balance methods but it's a lot more reasonable these days. It probably helps that Meneth is one of the more approachable modders on the pdox forums and is actually willing to take feedback.

Overall PB leads to smaller retinue sizes, slower expansion of centralized crown powers and increases the difficulty for powers to blob effectively. After TOG's release it's very nearly the best mod for CK2, if not the best imo.

Hooahguy

06-09-2013, 19:41

Im thinking about getting one or more of the DLCs when the steam summer sale happens. Is the Old Gods DLC worth it? Any other worthy DLCs? No interest in playing as a muslim ruler though.

edyzmedieval

06-09-2013, 19:49

I just noticed Crusader Kings on Steam the other way, and got intrigued by it. Managing a kingdom/empire is definitely one of my favourite aspects of Total War, hence my interest.

So I'm asking the fans - do you heartily recommend it?

B-Wing

06-09-2013, 20:37

Managing a kingdom/empire is definitely one of my favourite aspects of Total War, hence my interest.

So I'm asking the fans - do you heartily recommend it?

I say it's definitely a worthwhile game to check out, if you don't mind the steep learning curve. It is an entirely different game from Medieval Total War, despite the similar setting. I haven't played the vanilla game in nearly a year, so I may not be up to speed on the improvements made by DLC updates, but there are two things I feel are worth pointing out:

(1) The game constantly throws difficult decisions at you to make which have serious impacts on your economy and/or character development. Most are minor, but some are quite important. Often times, none of your possible outcomes are favorable, and the random outcomes of these random events can absolutely derail your character and kingdom/duchy/empire. Some people love the challenge and "realism" presented by this lack of control, but I personally find them needlessly frustrating.

(2) There's nothing you can do to control the outcomes of battles. You can choose the number of troops to form your army with and select the general(s), but once the battle is engaged, you just watch the numbers dwindle. I find this rather unsatisfying, but again it just depends on how much control/influence you feel the need to have over the game.

Despite my gripes with these aspects, the overall experience is definitely worth delving into if management is one of your favorite aspects of TW. Just be prepared to deal with a lot of characters who very much have their own goals and personalities.

edyzmedieval

06-09-2013, 21:35

That's what I'm looking for, micro-management. One of the things I wish for more in TW games is micro-management, hence why I asked about Crusader Kings.

Hooahguy

06-09-2013, 22:12

That's what I'm looking for, micro-management. One of the things I wish for more in TW games is micro-management, hence why I asked about Crusader Kings.
Well if thats the case, definitely get CKII. Though I would wait until the Steam summer sale, probably will happen in a month.

rickinator9

06-10-2013, 02:10

Well if thats the case, definitely get CKII. Though I would wait until the Steam summer sale, probably will happen in a month.

or 2.

Hooahguy

06-10-2013, 02:18

or 2.
The summer sale is usually in mid to late July.

Anyhow I had a fantastic comeback. My last king died at age 30, leaving behind an heir who was just 6 years old. I already had levies up because I anticipated problems, and was able to put down the civil war that followed. Then my grandmother died, giving me claims on a large part of Scotland, which I proceeded to capture. Now I am King of Scotland. Absolutely spectacular how I started the game in lower Ireland, became King of Ireland, then became King of Ireland and Scotland, then was taken way down to just a duke, and worked my way back up to King of Scotland. While Im still a member of the English Empire, I am deciding whether or not independence is worth it. Im saving up to pay for some mercenaries so Ill have a fighting chance if the time for war ever comes.

Myth

06-10-2013, 08:58

As a strategy gamer who is always looking for a medieval setting to play in I'd say CK2 is great. Very, very imersive and realistic. Also, if you're the type of player who, like me, likes to autoresolve once he gets big enough in a Total War game, due to laziness to lead battles when obviously the AI can't tip the player faction over, then CKII is the way to go!

In regards to battles, I've found that when fighting european stacks raised by the AI, heavy infantry really matter. When you have access to masses of horse archers, those pretty much trump anything but really dedicated heavy cav armies. Also, the terrain traits give a huge bonus. Flat Terrain/Mountain Terrain expert really make a difference, it can especially be seen when you get it mid battle and you see how the enemy army gets depleted twice as fast.

I have a huge list of things that I want changed to improve CKII, but that's basically just making an awesome game even more awesome, they are in no way game breaking or anything. Anyway, my list:

- Make Baron revolts more meaningful, allow them to generate armies on the map and recruit mercs/get some adventurer support.
- Lower the opinion towards the liege for the neighbouring barons/mayors/bishops in a province if there is one of their rank rebelling in that province.
- Tyranny should be visible to the other monarchs on the map and not magically disappear if you banish or kill all those who had witnessed it.
- Severe tyrannical actions should give a negative trait.
- Matrilenial betrothals should be honoured by the AI or the AI should get a penalty when changing its mind once the boy turns 16.
- You should be able to see the laws in a realm you select. (if this is possible I don't know how to do it)
- Claim fabrication should give a negative opinion towards the one fabricating it, it's basically stealing land and it should be viewed negatively.
- When searching for characters you should be able to choose a combination of desired traits the character must possess.
- Characters should ask less frequently to be granted land if all available land for the liege to give is within their demesne limit. However, if the liege is over his demesne limit or if he has the money to build a new holding, characters should insist more.
- Unrest in provinces should gradually increase over long periods of non-stop war.
- When warring over a claim on a single county the attacking army can occupy it and be given a timer. If several years pass without the original owner of the county coming to remove the occupants, ownership of the county should be transferred to the aggressor, thus making it more likely for smaller realms to take "bites' out of juggernauts like the HRE.
- An army should be allowed to fortify it's position at a cost of gold, thus increasing the defensive bonus it gets. However this should take time, and returning back to "mobile mode" should not be instant, thus making this a liability if another army is actively pillaging across your realm.
- Besieging a county which borders only enemy territories or a coastal county which does not have an adequate fleet in the body of water it borders should give greater attrition to the besieging army.
- Infant mortality rate should be made much higher if the current birth rate remains.
- Christian rulers should be pressured by the pope to be more virtuous.
- Bishops should dislike the seven deadly sins more severely and not raise in support of sinful lieges.
- Allow the building of monasteries in provinces. They should provide a huge technology boost, a large piety boost and the option to send unmarried daughters to a monastery. For male rulers, they should afford the option to atone of one of the seven deadly sins at a cost of time spent away from governing the realm.
- Daughters should have the "Virgin" trait upon birth. Lustful daughters should have a large chance of disobeying their fathers and losing their virginity to some random idiot from court. Daughters who are not virgins have a severely lowered chance to be accepted as marriage material and no chance to be married of matrilenially to a ruler of Duke level higher.
- Daughters should have a chance to fall in love with random characters and ask your permission to marry them. If you refuse, they can have the option to running away with their new husband (or absconding to his court). The shy and chaste traits should reduce the chance of this happening.
- Sons should have the option of starting a love affair with random courters (especially your own), thus deflowering them (and lessening their value) and possibly angering their respective liege. Again, the chaste/shy traits should lower the chance of this happening.
- Rulers should have an increased chance of seeking a young lover as they grow older. Traits like lustful, attractive (for the lover), ugly (for their spouse) should change the probability, as should Chaste and Celibate.
- Greatly educe the chance of characters aspiring to a council position if they are only 1 point better than the current councillor. Exponantially increase the chance with each point the character exceeds the current councillor. Ambitious characters should attempt to sway your mind in various ways, including seduction, bribing and killing the current councillor (if he is not a powerful feudal lord).
- Homosexual characters set to educate a child SHOULD NOT make that child homosexual unless you want to include stuff like child abuse and paedophilia in the game.
- Women who are not direct rulers should be able to take on 3 wards, men who are rulers only 1.
- Characters who have educated two or more children should get a trait which allows them further slots to take on the education of more wards, and also allow a greater chance of their traits to "rub off" on the child.
- Allow for the removal of the "possessed" trait via exorcism, at a steep piety cost. Allow the trait to resurface in characters.

There is plenty more which I can suggest, but I have to cut off for now (work, work).

naut

06-10-2013, 16:26

When searching for characters you should be able to choose a combination of desired traits the character must possess.

Matchmaker (http://www.couscouscrabcakes.com/matchmaker/matchmaker.html). Standalone tool, I don't know if there is a more recent version out there.

naut

06-11-2013, 12:00

Nice! Who'd you start as?

Beskar

06-11-2013, 18:34

That's what I'm looking for, micro-management. One of the things I wish for more in TW games is micro-management, hence why I asked about Crusader Kings.

CK2 is mostly character driven.

However, EU4 should be out in August too, which is more about the 'embodiment of a nation', though EU3 is a good game and still play it quite often (with mods).

Hooahguy

06-11-2013, 20:12

Is the Legacy of Rome DLC worth it? I dont have an interest in playing as the Byzantines, but I like the concept of a standing army.

Chaotix

06-11-2013, 22:33

Is the Legacy of Rome DLC worth it? I dont have an interest in playing as the Byzantines, but I like the concept of a standing army.

Retinues are definitely a game-changer. I can't say whether they make the game more or less deep in terms of strategy, but they definitely change things up. I think it's also probably the way the developers mean for the game to be played.

Every culture does get it's own unique retinue type, so you don't have to play as the Byzantines to get something out of the DLC.

That said, if you don't actually want to play as the Byzantines... I honestly don't know if it's worth buying just for the retinues. Maybe get it when it's on sale, if at all?

Hooahguy

06-11-2013, 23:21

Retinues are definitely a game-changer. I can't say whether they make the game more or less deep in terms of strategy, but they definitely change things up. I think it's also probably the way the developers mean for the game to be played.

Every culture does get it's own unique retinue type, so you don't have to play as the Byzantines to get something out of the DLC.

That said, if you don't actually want to play as the Byzantines... I honestly don't know if it's worth buying just for the retinues. Maybe get it when it's on sale, if at all?

Yeah, I plan to get it when it goes on sale for the steam summer sale. But thats so far away from now...

EDIT: Impulse/gamespot had it on sale already, though Old Gods isnt on sale yet so Ill wait for that.

B-Wing

06-12-2013, 01:12

I'm presently debating whether or not to go ahead and get The Old Gods now or wait for a sale. The idea of trying to create an Irish kingdom at the new start date is very enticing.

Hooahguy

06-12-2013, 03:53

So after much fighting and taking advantage of an already weak English empire, I succeeded from England, creating a free Scotland. Obviously this didnt sit well with the English empress but what was she gonna do, as her armies were depleted and Im awesome. Anyhow, later on I set up my heir to marry the non-dynastic heir of the English empire. Then the king I was playing as died and I assassinated the old empress of England so now my queen was also Empress of England. So now my heir can unite both England and Scotland into one happy empire under my command. The Dunkeld dynasty has gone from lowly dukes to possible emperors, this game is amazing.

EDIT: Also, because the Empress of England is my wife, she cant declare war on me so England isnt a threat.

I really gotta take a picture of this.

Myth

06-12-2013, 07:31

I started as a Count in Burgundy. Took the petty Kingdom, then took all the counties near Savoy due to some breaking off of HRE vassals. With two Ducal titles now under my name (had to reform the Duchy of Savoy unfortunately), I created the true Kingdom of Burgundy. Now I'm waiting for the death of either the King of France or the Emperor of the HRE so if their vassals break off I can forge a claim and press on. Currently due to some marriage and inheritance issues I took some counties in northern Italy, so my Kingdom is growing. Too bad that from Primagenitor sucession in the petty kingdom we are now Gavelkind and raising Crown Authority is a tedious process.

Chaotix

06-12-2013, 10:06

I've noticed that at a certain point, Crown Authority just isn't worth raising. Medium seems to be the sweet spot unless you have a very stable and wealthy realm.

Yeah, the only reason to raise crown authority above medium is if you want Primogeniture. And then you should probably drop it back down again.

Gameplay-wise, Elective is probably better anyway, if slightly risky. But a lot of times for role-play reasons I'll go for Primo anyway.

Myth

06-12-2013, 12:29

Primogeniture is thee only acceptable way for me. Also, these claimants/adventurers are really getting on my nerves.

komnenos

06-12-2013, 19:08

I've noticed that at a certain point, Crown Authority just isn't worth raising. Medium seems to be the sweet spot unless you have a very stable and wealthy realm.

But I think it's better to raise your crown authority because most of the factions will be busy to lower this law. This will cause to make their faction goals busy and in this way you will forbidden them to think about other dangerous titles of their faction goal.
For example you'll see less factions about making elective system or put someone instead of you and so on.
So I prefer to always increase this law even if above medium.

rickinator9

06-12-2013, 19:27

But I think it's better to raise your crown authority because most of the factions will be busy to lower this law. This will cause to make their faction goals busy and in this way you will forbidden them to think about other dangerous titles of their faction goal.
For example you'll see less factions about making elective system or put someone instead of you and so on.
So I prefer to always increase this law even if above medium.

Unless they changed this, vassals can be in multiple factions at once.

Hooahguy

06-13-2013, 01:16

Alright, my current kingdom in all its glory:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/577866110940160055/95DC7A97D336B55952712134A0FC80A9DD49FCDD/1024x575.resizedimage

Yes I do own the bottom tip of Ireland, not sure how I got it.

Although a few months after this screenshot was taken my heir's betrothal to the Princess and heir of Brittany was broken due to her father throwing her in prison and removing her from the line of succession so I think I can net him a better wife.

Hooahguy

06-13-2013, 03:18

Britannia! How'd that happen without you getting demolished?

No clue, maybe because they have part of Ireland?

naut

06-13-2013, 08:44

Unless they changed this, vassals can be in multiple factions at once.
Yep, they can be in 2 each.

(Although I have it set to 3 each personally.)

komnenos

06-13-2013, 13:41

rickinator9

06-13-2013, 13:54

The old gods has some problems for example it has brought unique events just for norse pagan and tengri religions. I liked that there were especial events for other pagan religions like hellenic religion. I hope they add some events for other pagan religions in next patch.

The Hellenic religion is dead. It's just for some roman emperors IIRC. Tengri doesn't have any events either. The mongols do. They should have named it 'The norse gods' as it seems they spent 90% of their time and manpower on the Norse. I'm kind of dissapointed by this, but we could have seen it coming.

B-Wing

06-13-2013, 16:17

Just to be clear, if I were to buy The Old Gods DLC and started a new campaign at the new, earliest start date: would the campaign still last as long as the regular one, or does it arbitrarily end around 1066? Haven't found a definitive answer to that question in my searching.

komnenos

06-13-2013, 16:56

The Hellenic religion is dead. It's just for some roman emperors IIRC. Tengri doesn't have any events either. The mongols do. They should have named it 'The norse gods' as it seems they spent 90% of their time and manpower on the Norse. I'm kind of dissapointed by this, but we could have seen it coming.

But if you use ruler designer it will be useful and you will expand this religion around the world so it's needed to add especial events for it.

Beskar

06-13-2013, 17:13

Chaotix

06-14-2013, 04:30

Also The Old Gods changes to game mechanics will carry over into later start dates, so if you wanted to play a Pagan in a far more challenging situation you could try playing Romuva in 1066 or something. ~:eek:

Pagans (aside from the Norse) actually have it a lot easier in the 1066 start than the 867 start. Pretty much everybody (even the Scandinavians, since they've converted) will suffer some terrible attrition if they try to go after you, allowing you to build up a lot before you reform and enter the fray.

There's a reason Pagan Lithuania was so powerful, and it took the Christians until the 1200s with the Teutonic Order to finally take 'em out.

Hooahguy

06-14-2013, 05:07

So my character died, leaving my heir to rule. Thankfully my heir was already past 16 so it didnt cause too much trouble. Then the former Empress of England conveniently died a year later, so now Scotland and England are united and its awesome, although I am really not prepared for managing an empire. I was used to around 10-15 vassals. Now I have 47. Trial by fire, I guess.

Monk

06-14-2013, 05:32

I love seeing this thread so active again. ~D

So it turns out (simply due to the random nature of the game) The Seljuk Invasion is a lot like the Mongol invasion. Sometimes it just doesn't happen which is exactly what happened in my Persian game. The cutoff date passed and still no invasion... well screw that i said, because this is a fun game and I need challenges!

I forced the Seljuks to spawn and I'm actually quite pleased with their starting strength. They spawn with around 45k men and effectively serve as a mini mongol-like invasion. By the time you hit 990 (when they can start spawning) 40k soldiers is quite obtainable, and defeating that is not impossible... Of course it's not easy either..

https://i.imgur.com/zMfb6Mh.jpg

They swept aside the serene kingdom of Turkestan which had stood on the borders between the Great Cuman Khans and the Southern Shahs of Persia for decades. Within a year, they'd toppled the regime and declared a new government rule beneath their powerful Warlord.

https://i.imgur.com/HavGLFA.jpg

At the time of their arrival in 1016 there were three principle powers around the Caspian Sea.

In the North, the Cuman Khaganate of Khazaria rules the Steppe lands, uniting much of the nomadic Tengri populations into a powerful confederation. Although they war with themselves as much as outsiders, their rule has lasted nearly a century and shows no sign of stopping any time soon. To the South, the wealthy Shahs of Persia rule from their capital at Samarkand. Enjoying a Golden Age beneath the Karen Dynasty, the Kingdom of Persia is follows the teachings of Zoroastrianism fiercely. After centuries battling other faiths for the right to survive, theirs is a culture supremely familiar with the concept of war..

And beyond the Shahs still is the mighty Abbasid Caliphate, resurgent in power after having been in decline for centuries past. Despite the much easier target of the dis-unified Khans of the north, the Seljuks move south for their next conquest..

https://i.imgur.com/ikFvdiH.jpg

Ebrahim The Blessed rallies his forces near the capital as the Seljuk host pours over the horizon, invading the northern provinces. The outer defenses and counties are abandoned in order to concentrate the defense around the dynastic Karen holdings in Merv, and the capital of Samarkand

https://i.imgur.com/cnu1PSe.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YKc8fVA.jpg

Attempting to bypass the Shah's defense of Samarkand the Seljuks move into Merv nearly unchallenged. It isn't until they reach Tagtabazar that the Shah is able to rally a defense and move his men down from the capital.. the results are horrific. The first major battle fought in the north since the foundation of the Shahdom of Persia sees nearly a full third of the Persian forces killed before the Seljuks retreat, suffering complete decimation as they lose nearly 60% of their forces in the process of the assault on Merv..

https://i.imgur.com/xc8e5Qo.jpg

Having fully occupied the north the Seljuk host commits the full remainder of their attack on the traditional homeland of the Karen Dynasty. In an act of defiance they sack a number of holdings, but thankfully, most of the Shah's family are able to escape before the Seljuk troops take the cities. With his home behind burned and priceless family artifacts being claimed as personal loot, Ebrahim rallies his troops in Merv along with two full compliments of mercenaries. As the Shah marches west, the troops from the southern Satropies finally arrive, spoiling for a fight.

https://i.imgur.com/Sz7Lxqn.jpg

The Battle of Akhur saw the breaking of the strength of the Seljuk invasion into Persia. 39,000 Persians and 6,000 Cuman and Armenian Mercenaries faced off against 30,000 Turks. The fighting in the center is said to have been the bloodiest in the history of the Zoroastrian Shahs up to that point. Ebrahim's left flank was completely broken after its commander was killed near the start of the battle. Through the turmoil and chaos of the resulting melee, Ebrahim and his men found themselves surrounding fighting in two directions at once. If not for heroic actions by the Shah himself, personally leading each counter attack against the enveloping Turks, the day may have been lost. Not a single soldier who survived the battle could doubt the bravery of their Shah that day..

When the dust settled the war was effectively over. Hemmed in between two armies and the sea, the Turks were forced to flee north, and once the retreat started it could not be stopped. The hopes of the Seljuk warlords to capture the rich lands of the Persians had ended in disaster, and the most trying test of the Zoroastrian Shahdom had been passed... at great cost.

https://i.imgur.com/pt4QcmZ.jpg

Hooahguy

06-14-2013, 18:38

Okay, any tips for running an empire? Pretty much all my vassals hate me and Im very worried Im going to see an all out rebellion soon.

Monk

06-15-2013, 00:00

It's a constant balance of power. You want strong vassals because they help lessen the micromanaging aspect of the game, ensuring your realm is growing steadily along with your demesne. But.. you can't afford to let them get too powerful, or they will rise up to challenge you.

Never think for a moment that your vassals are friends of your ruler. The military AI can be a bit suspect at times but the character AI is good enough to know how to advance its own interests. If you're getting your ass handed to you on the frontier don't doubt that your enemies will take the chance to declare a faction revolt while the levies of your supporters are down.

Vassals are the rungs on the ladder to success, don't hesitate to step on them. If a duke gets more than one duchy title, try to scheme one off of him. Try to assassinate, plot, or otherwise reduce his power. If all else fails use your chancellor to fabricate a claim on one of his duchy titles (Expensive but can be worth it). If you have a strong claim on a vassal title you can revoke it for free.

And remember most of all: If you have to injure a man.. make it so severe that you'll never need to fear his vengeance. Never leave retribution half finished.. you rule a medieval court of intrigue, not a social club.

Hooahguy

06-15-2013, 00:53

So I shouldnt be worried if most of them have a negative opinion of me?

And remember most of all: If you have to injure a man.. make it so severe that you'll never need to fear his vengeance. Never leave retribution half finished.. you rule a medieval court of intrigue, not a social club.
I dont have too much experience with imprisonments and assassinations, but isnt there a serious penalty to imprisoning vassals without them rebelling first? Im not so good with all the politics stuff, might want to start by pacifying the strongest vassals.

Also currently Im the Emperor of Britannia and the King of Scotland, Im guessing I should destroy the Scotland title. Or maybe I should pass it off to my heir?

Chaotix

06-15-2013, 01:22

So I shouldnt be worried if most of them have a negative opinion of me?

I dont have too much experience with imprisonments and assassinations, but isnt there a serious penalty to imprisoning vassals without them rebelling first? Im not so good with all the politics stuff, might want to start by pacifying the strongest vassals.

Also currently Im the Emperor of Britannia and the King of Scotland, Im guessing I should destroy the Scotland title. Or maybe I should pass it off to my heir?

You should be worried if they all have a negative opinion. Check the factions tab to see how powerful the factions are, and that's a gauge of how worried you should be. Give them gifts and honorary titles to get them off your back.

Definitely don't imprison a vassal without just cause. That is a sure way to get yourself into a civil war, because it pisses everybody off. What you can do is pay attention to plots, and as soon as a vassal you want to keep in check comes up with a plot, try to imprison him (you have just cause if he is plotting something illegal). You will either get him, which means he can't join factions any more, or he'll rebel, but it'll be just him and not all of his faction allies. Then you can stamp him out, revoke a title off him once you've won, and severely weaken him.

Once they're in prison, never let them out during that ruler's reign, even if people ask you. It's usually better to take the opinion hit if you can't flatter them with diplomacy, because chances are the prisoner will hate you and join a faction as soon as you let him out.

I tend to think assassinations cause more trouble than they are worth, unless you want to make sure that you inherit something. If you get caught in the act trying to kill a vassal, all of your vassals will hate you. But it's useful if you're careful about it.

I would destroy the title, but don't do it immediately, because it will piss off your vassals in Scotland. Wait till your king is old and everybody loves him because of the Long Reign bonus. That's usually the best time to destroy titles and enact policy changes.

You could also keep it if you want the extra prestige associated with it, but most Scottish vassals will desire the title and get a -20 opinion hit on you. Don't give it to your heir. If you do that you are creating a powerful vassal. Usually your heir will love you, but if he dies before you do, there can be all sorts of complications and you might not get it back. For instance if you are using Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture and he only has a daughter, she will get the Kingdom but your second son will be heir to the Empire. There's a ton of different ways it could go down based on succession laws, and it's usually a good idea to not even open up that Pandora's box. And then there's the fact that his vassals could rebel and take his title away as soon as you give it to him, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Monk

06-15-2013, 02:01

So I shouldnt be worried if most of them have a negative opinion of me?

No you absolutely should :laugh4: Appearances Hooah, above all appearances. You want them to love you, but never for a second trust them :yes:

Hooahguy

06-15-2013, 02:23

No you absolutely should :laugh4: Appearances Hooah, above all appearances. You want them to love you, but never for a second trust them :yes:

Gotcha.

So Ive been managing politics for now. Only had two -100 vassals, and I killed them both and their heirs were in the green so thats that. As for the others, most seem to be coming around, it went from 75% of vassals red to only 30% of them in the red so thats good I think.

Then I had the "Install (insert name here) as ruler of Britannia" movement. How do I deal with those kind of factions, the ones that want to overthrow me? So far Ive only had one serious faction that got to 53% o I had to kill the guy they wanted on the throne, but I dont think I can keep killing my vassals. Unless thats what it takes to rule an empire. In which case, Ill get the guillotines ready.

Monk

06-15-2013, 02:53

Its true, the way characters and factions all conspire against you is far more engaging than the warfare aspect. It makes me rather excited for EU4's alliance system, however it's going to look.

I would not at all be surprised if they built EU4 to be very closely related to CK2 in a number of gameplay mechanic areas. With the insane popularity that CK2 has gotten (to the point Paradox has pledged 2 full years of additional content) it would make a lot of sense.

Hooahguy

06-15-2013, 05:00

Alright, all of the factions are gone but 3 separate elective succession movements. Not too bad, but Im expecting it to grow into a problem in a few decades. Right now its at 30%. I dealt with one small rebellion, all but 2 of my vassals like me (of of the two was the one who rebelled so hes in the oubliette), and I have a 12 year old male heir who actually has good traits. I think Im good right now.

Monk

06-15-2013, 08:42

but I dont think I can keep killing my vassals. Unless thats what it takes to rule an empire. In which case, Ill get the guillotines ready.

You absolutely can. Remember that the "invite noble" intrigue option will spawn a randomly generated male character in your court. This character has your exact culture and religion and can be granted as many titles as you want.. in case anyone gets ideas. Sometimes they have the ambitious trait so they make poor vassals, but you can always just hit that button again. :yes:

Vassals can be replaced, the absolute rule of the dynasty cannot be.

The best way I've found is to limit your inter realm marriages. Most often, vassals who end up with claims on the throne through a marriage to your daughter will come back to haunt you. In a generation or two, they will have a strong/weak claim and they will be itching for a chance to press it.

Do your best to limit claims on your main titles to only your immediate family and keep track of your heir and the second and third in line for succession. This is probably the most important part of dynasty management. If you want my advice? Never give brothers titles. Ever. Raise them under high martial characters and use them solely as your generals. This gives them a very important role in your dynasty, allows you to get a bit into the immersion of the game, and also keeps you a bit safer for your troubles all in one.

While its true vassals may still attempt to install them over you, your landless general brother will have no power on his own. The faction will be a lot easier to deal with if the claimaint has no land of his own since he will be MUCH easier to... 'persuade' from their course of action. ~;)

naut

06-15-2013, 08:46

You can reduce your feudal laws and increase your Noble Customs tech, each will give small boons. The laws can then be moved up again once you've dealt with the problems.

Also use your family. When reassigning lands and titles favour your unlanded cousins, etc. they will have a dynasty bonus of +25 (I think?). And be vigilant with unmarried vassals, these are prime opportunities to marry your non-heir children into noble houses to end their lines and bring their lands into your dynasty.

Hooahguy

06-15-2013, 15:09

Gotcha. How many holdings is a good amount? I currently have 4/5 holdings that Im allowed to have, but very now and then a vassal will ask me to give up a title that they should have. So far Ive been rejecting them diplomatically, but I maybe I should give some of them up?

Chaotix

06-15-2013, 23:05

I always try to hold as many holdings as possible under my demesne limit. Having the extra income and troops is almost always worth more than the Prestige penalty you get for unlanded sons. Muslim decadence does make things a little trickier, as GC said, but you're playing Britannia so you don't have to worry about that.

Even if you can't diplomatically reject your vassals, it's not much of a penalty to deny them. Usually the kind of vassal that asks you is a Count within one of your Duchies, so they're not much of a threat. If you can, look for a way to consolidate your holdings such that you have all the Counties in each Duchy you own and not much outside them. That way you will avoid this kind of event entirely.

Monk

06-15-2013, 23:59

My Byzantium/Rome game finally came to a halt when a civil war involving half the Empire finally taxed my patience.

Now you know how Augustus must've felt. :laugh4:

Chaotix

06-16-2013, 02:40

My Byzantium/Rome game finally came to a halt when a civil war involving half the Empire finally taxed my patience. I'll resume it another day, but its absolutely crazy. In the meantime, I've decided to try a Republic! Venice in 867. I'm only a couple decades in so far, but it is a nice change of pace. The internal politics of the Republic are a very fun and intriguing way to occupy what is apparently a rather war-less time.

For those with experience playing Republics: Can you do some blobbing? How does territorial expansion work as a Republic, and what's the best way to go about it?

Playing as a Republic is all about economic expansion.

Typically your primary goal should be making a lot of money, and you'll find that conquests and expansion come with the money. You have a few tools at your disposal, and it works in a basic cycle:

-You can build trade posts in coastal provinces.
-You can declare war for cities in provinces in which you have trade posts.
-You can declare war for provinces in which you have cities.
-You can also do whatever a feudal lord can do.

When you are Doge, make it your first priority to get yourself enough cities to fill your demesne limit. Cities give you a lot more cash than trading posts, and they are mainly an insurance policy in case you don't get re-elected. Also try to get yourself a Duke-level title, so that you can have Count-level vassals even when you're not the Doge.

If you're not the Doge, or if you started out as the Doge, you'll also want to devote attention to building trade posts. Build as many as you can, and try to build them all around a single sea region, as you'll get bonus "trade network" money. You can have a lot more trade posts than cities, so these will become your primary investment down the line.

You can give anyone in your family an honorary title called "designated heir", which will make him the heir instead of following the usual Seniority rule. Be aware that age is a major factor in the elections. You can also pay the election fund, though, and once you are rolling in dough it is quite easy to trivialize the election and make sure you get elected.

If you want to role-play you may choose to forego the campaign fund, as it really does make the election process trivial. However, be aware that if you're just a Patrician, the Doge can attempt to seize your trade posts. If you Diplomacy is not high enough, there's nothing you can do about it (not even rebel), and you can't plot to get them back either against a Doge, or if you are the Doge. That's prompted a rage-quit on my end, but only because I wasn't aware of what little freedom there was in that situation.

Anyway, once you are rolling in cash you'll be able to hire enough mercenaries to take on Kingdoms and eventually the Empires. It's perfectly possible to build an empire of coastal duchies and trading posts; Greece's duchies are 100% coastal and Italy comes close as well. Whatever you can't seize as a Republic you can always fabricate claims for.

A final few points of advice:
-Use the trade post views often, they are very useful and also give you an aesthetic sense of "empire".
-Build up the republic city! When the AI is Doge, they won't do it since they know it just gets passed off to the next Doge. But a weak capital city can limit your potential, whereas a strong one can provide you with a ton of extra cash.
-If you're going to make vassal Duchies, make them Dukes or Archbishops, not Mayors. City-level Duchies will become their own separate republic with their own five families, and it's very messy.

Chaotix

06-16-2013, 03:03

Good stuff, thanks! One last question though: What can you do with Empire titles? Will it not let you create them? Is there an Empire tier for Republics?

I believe you can create Empires just the same way as a Feudal lord, though I haven't done it myself.

naut

06-16-2013, 06:37

Chaotix

06-16-2013, 07:42

Hooah you also want to make sure your capital has either the most holdings or potential for holdings in it. A capital with 3 castles and a Marshall + Steward active will give much more money and levy than three counties spread out. Though you will get slightly less prestige.

This is not always true.

A city will produce many times more gold than a castle will. And under the usual crown laws you get a quarter of all your direct city vassals' income. This means with three spread out counties (say each with one city, one church, one castle) you'll get a quarter of the income from three cities. However, if you have just one holding, with three castles, one city, and one church, you only get the income from that one city.

You don't get any substantial tax income from holdings that are not your direct vassals. To be specific, you get a percentage of each direct vassals' total income. So say you have a count vassal who has a city for a vassal, and you have Low Feudal taxation, then the amount you get from that city specifically is 10% * 25% = 2.5%. And if you have No Feudal Taxation, you get nothing. Taxation of anything beyond direct vassalage is extremely inefficient for the top liege.

This is assuming you were talking about owning those three castle holdings.

In general, as Psychonaut said the best counties to get in your demesne are the ones with the most potential holdings. But it's also best to only have one holding (usually the capital castle) in each of those counties, and let the rest be held by vassals. This way you maximize your vassal baronies/cities/bishoprics.

Sorry, that was much longer and confusing than I intended it to be. :sweatdrop:

komnenos

06-16-2013, 10:14

naut

06-16-2013, 14:45

This is assuming you were talking about owning those three castle holdings.
Yes I was talking about owning. True in pure cash terms you won't get that sweet extra city tax from multiple holdings. But if you have three with decent buildings (say level three of each) and a level 20 steward and marshall you will be able to raise 3000+ troops and each will provide 14-17 gold (numbers that will grow with more building investment). The other reason is that this revenue is never subject to vassal opinions either.

But, these considerations are also dependent on your demesne limit.

Ibn-Khaldun

06-16-2013, 18:24

So I bought "The Old Gods" and played it a bit. I have to say that raiding is a lot of fun. Especially if you do it as a count with ~300 men in the Mediterranean. Seeing a 10-15 times larger forces in the neighboring county and then carefully calculating when it's the best time to leave before they arrive.. That is fun! Played cat and mouse with the Muslims in Spain and Italians near Rome. I do hope that one day we will get ship battles as well. Playing a Norse viking will get a lot more interesting then!

komnenos

06-16-2013, 21:30

OK but I really enjoyed playing as Genoa. As I read the history of fourth crusade I extremely hated Venice and I don't like Venice to play at all, but if you don't care try playing Venice.

Hooahguy

06-17-2013, 04:07

Attila "the Cube"? How does one get that title?

Hooahguy

06-17-2013, 04:17

Oh yeah, I got that part, but Im just trying to figure out where "cube" came from. Were they geometrically inclined or something?

Hooahguy

06-19-2013, 00:30

How can I fabricate a claim on an entire country? I know you can fabricate a claim on single provinces, but Im trying to take Brittany but I have to take it province by province which takes ages and Ive lost a number of good chancellors as they were fabricating claims.

Before I thought I could press the claim of someone in my court, which I did before, but that didnt seem to work as when I won, the claimant took the throne of Brittany, but wasnt my vassal.

On a similar note, whats a good way to force someone to be my vassal. Id rather just coerce the current king of Brittany to be my vassal than fight a war.

Hooahguy

06-19-2013, 00:48

If claim fabrication is how you intend to expand, the most you can get at a time is a Duchy, and only then with a good Chancellor. The most expedient way to go about claim warfare like that is to fabricate multiple claims before going to war, as there should be a "Press all claims" cassus belli.

As for getting vassals without conquering, I've only seen it work when you're an Empire and you're asking Duchies and Counties to join you. They have to be independent and at peace for you to have the option. You can ask Kings, but they always say no it seems.
So I just checked, the ruler was a petty king, Ill try again when hes dead.

Chaotix

06-19-2013, 01:03

So I just checked, the ruler was a petty king, Ill try again when hes dead.

Petty kings are considered Dukes for the purposes of the game.

Usually, to vassalize someone, you have to be at least two ranks higher than them (so King for a Count, Emperor for a Duke), share their religion, and additionally either share their culture or be their de jure liege. Sometimes if you are very powerful you can vassalize someone without being the de jure liege or same culture, if you directly border them.

If you don't border them, you'll get the "distant land" penalty, and if you are not 2 ranks above you'll get the "small difference in rank" penalty - and either of these will usually prevent you from being able to vassalize.

If you're having trouble trying to vassalize a Duke or a King, you can try claiming enough of his land to usurp his primary titles. Then when his realm fractures his former vassals will usually fold to you, and it's just a matter of doing a de jure war for the one or two counties left.

Hooahguy

06-19-2013, 01:28

Holy hell, my wife is now the empress of the HRE. Not sure how that happened, I wasnt following HRE politics, but now I am absolutely astounded how that happened. Now my heir will be unifying the HRE and Britannia, I cannot believe this. So what would be the title of this massive empire? Can I name it, Id love to have the Holy European Empire, maybe eventually I can take over all of Europe!

https://i.imgur.com/I3wpGBY.jpg

Also that petty king of Brittany died and his heir accepted my offer of vassalization so that was easy.

EDIT: there was a massive civil war in the HRE trying to oust my wife from the throne. For the good of the family I couldnt say no to helping defend her throne, so 45,000 English troops landed on the shores of Normandy, marched across France, and slowly beat back rebel forces. Initially the warscore was -65, and I was worried that my wife would surrender, but over the next few years we got it up to -20. Finally the rebels settled on a white peace, which I guess is better than a defeat, so thats good I think. I guess when I become HRE emperor I have this to look forward to.

Hooahguy

06-19-2013, 05:08

Yeah, its going to be quite the experience managing an empire that large. Thinking about just handing off England and Scotland to my favorite vassals because managing the HRE and Britannia is going to be really tough.

But yeah. I started as an Irish duke, then became king of Ireland , then to King of Scotland, then back to a small duke, then back to a king, then an emperor, its been quite the ride. The Dunkeld family began as Irish, became Scottish, then somehow was Welsh for a bit, and now its English. And I think that it will soon have some German in the mix soon.

My suggestion is to work small. When the game started I concentrated everything on getting that one neighbor's province. Then the next, until I got Ireland under my contorl. Then I did the same for Scotland. Concentrated on getting the Isle of Man, then Argyll, and so forth. Keep working like that. Even if it takes a while to fabricate the claim, take it because its just the first stepping stone. Later on the big changes like from king to emperor will happen but its small steps before that.

Also isnt there an ending date or something?

Monk

06-19-2013, 05:11

Also isnt there an ending date or something?

The game ends in 1453.

Hooahguy

06-19-2013, 05:15

Wow, so I only have like 90 years left before the game ends.

Hooahguy

06-19-2013, 05:47

Though aren't the non-pagans at a disadvantage at that early start date? That's what I heard.

Also since I don't want to get the Old Gods until it goes on sale, what's a good nation to play as next? I'm thinking maybe a small Italian state.

Hooahguy

06-19-2013, 06:01

Well My current game is an Irish one, so I'm thinking something a tad different.

komnenos

06-19-2013, 12:54

If you want to get another chance like that, you can focus on an emperor or a king and kill all of his sons and if he has daughter , marry her and get that title for the future. Therefore continue this strategy and expand your empire as you can. I always use this strategy in my game. One time I get HRE then kingdom of Castile and Russia! But you should have great spymaster to do it in the best way.

B-Wing

06-19-2013, 14:12

Also since I don't want to get the Old Gods until it goes on sale, what's a good nation to play as next?

One nation I intend to give a shot is Armenia Minor. They don't become independent until around 1100 or so, but they're in a very interesting position as a Miaphysite duchy nestled between the crusader states, Byzantines, and Rum.

I also had a very fun campaign as Georgia, who is probably in an easier position than Armenia Minor.

Beskar

06-19-2013, 14:52

Wow, so I only have like 90 years left before the game ends.

You can modify the defines so you can go past that date, but there are no special scripts or the like.

Monk

06-19-2013, 21:47

I passed over 400 hours played in CK2 during my last session over the weekend. That makes CK2 easily my most played Steam game and in the running for the most time i've wasted with a single game since I was little. It's hard to imagine another single player game that has kept me engaged this long. Not even EUIII did, as I maxed out there with about 200 hours. God this is a time consuming hobby. :laugh4: If not for a new job and a ton of new responsibilities my played time would probably be even higher than that.

I had some time today and I was thinking about the various gameplay experiences i've had with this game. Just thought i'd list them off for some fun.

Fought a desperate defense as the Excommunicated King of Ireland against the much more powerful Scottish King, only to lose and see my army destroyed on the field of battle. To add insult to injury, my brothers rebelled the following seasons igniting a civil war in the islands that ripped the Kingdom asunder. My King died an "exile" ruling only two counties which could laughably called the Kingdom of Wales.

Through dynastic power plays united all of Northern Spain and completed the Reconquista by 1300. Ensured the only powerful enemy I had was constantly suffering internal strife by repeatedly killing members of their ruling dynasty or otherwise weakening their nation with constant holy wars.

From pauper, to prince, to pauper again starting as a count in England. Secured a claim to the Throne and led a faction to install my dynasty to power. Succeeded only to see it fall apart a generation later when my idiot son couldn't hold things together.

Led over 400 years of rule in Italy as the decendants of Matilda of Tuscany. United the entirety of the Boot and even claimed the holy city of Jerusalem in a crusade. By 1250 AD Italy was the greatest power in the Catholic world, but two hundred years later a centuries old decline saw the last great king slain by rebels on the field of battle, fracturing the kingdom once and for all.

United all of Russia beneath a custom dynasty, destroying the legacy of Rurik by scouring his descendants to the wind and instituting my own rule. Faced down the Mongol invasion and turned them back time and again only to be defeated by my own lust for power. In an attempt to put down a revolt in Hungary after siezing the throne, the Mongols returned and destroyed the great Russian state, casting out my dynasty from power. 300 years of rule ended.

Pushed the last descendant of Charlemagne back to power by seizing control, through bribery and marriage, of the two most powerful duchies in Northern France. When the Capets fell upon hard times we declared independence.. and joined the Holy Roman Empire. Now a member of the Empire, many called for the last Karling to take the throne.. and it was done. The power was fleeting however, as I could not secure a smooth transition of power for my heir and lost the election upon the death of my ruler.

Succeeded in fending off both William the Bastard's and Harald of Norway's invasion forces to become Harold Godwinson the Great. Led the Godwin dynasty to become the most prolific dynasty in the history of Europe by placing members of the family on the thrones of England, Scotland, Ireland, Andalusia and Jerusalem. Although the unity was broken in the 13th century by a feud between the most powerful members of the dynasty, the main line would survive as rulers of Jerusalem for another two hundred years.

Led the crusaders of the 4th crusade in sacking the city of Constantinople and building a new Latin Empire that would claim most of Greece and Bulgaria. By 1300 however, numerous defeats at the hands of the resurgent Byzantines would weaken the Latins until they finally lost control of their most prized possession, Constantinople, within 100 years of taking it.

Established a huge trade empire as Venice based on the 285 Rules of Acquisition (or at least, those we know about!) governing every decision i made in game. By game end the Venetian Empire stretched from the Atlantic Ocean to the Black Sea. The closest i've ever gotten to "world conquest."

United all of Northern Africa beneath one sultan before invading Sicily, and later, Italy. Did what Hannibal could not do and laid waste to Rome in all her dying glory, even renamed my capital 'Nova Carthago' for a bit of fun. ~D The resulting clash between The HRE and myself set the Mediterranean on fire with conflict and ended with tens of thousands dead on both sides.

United southern Spain beneath the Sultanate of Andalusia and carved out a sizable realm for myself before the west targeted me for multiple crusades. As the fighting intensified, so too did the decline of the dynasty with numerous assassinations on the only capable rulers and sons who could have turned the situation around. By the 13th century the Sultanate of Andalusia collapsed after decades of mismanagement and military defeat.

Established a new Norseland in Scotland as Ivar the Boneless. With Scotland united and firmly control beneath his dynasty, the sons of Ivar were a constant threat to rulers in the North Sea, raiding nearby counties and resisting attempts at conversion for centuries to come.

and of course.. currently..

Rebuilt the Persian Sultanate from nothing as a Zoroastrian Ruler, ruthlessly converting all provinces back to Zoroastrianism and fighting constant holy wars against the Abbasid Caliphs of the west.

It's pretty fun to reflect back on all those amazing experiences. Ck2 isn't the most hardcore of paradox's titles but it's by a long way the most fun i've ever had with a game released by them.

Hooahguy

06-20-2013, 23:13

The Old Gods is on sale for half off so Im getting it, looks like Ill be playing as some pagans next time around!

Beskar

06-21-2013, 00:39

The Old Gods is on sale for half off so Im getting it, looks like Ill be playing as some pagans next time around!

Are you sure? On Steam, it is all of CK2 except for Old Gods in the sale. Unless you are referring to a different sale.

Hooahguy

06-21-2013, 03:14

Are you sure? On Steam, it is all of CK2 except for Old Gods in the sale. Unless you are referring to a different sale.

http://www.gamestop.com/pc/games/crusader-kings-ii-the-old-gods/109653

Im thinking of starting with the Swedish pagans first, mainly so I can make this my theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbWc3NPpXTQ

Chaotix

06-21-2013, 07:06

Right on. My first Pagan was as Homgardr, the viking petty kingdom in Russia. Was alright, but I wouldn't recommend it. Duchy of Jylland, duchy of Sweden/Uppland (spelled with wierd foreigner letters), or maybe Jorvik would be the best introductions to the Pagan mechanics. If you manage to blob a bit in the beginning and be the biggest viking around, its actually pretty easy to do what you want. The hardest part is keeping your realm stable long enough to reform your religion and switch to primogeniture so you can build a large and wealthy enough realm to withstand the crusader-era once you survive the end of the dark ages. If you fail to secure a big, stable realm in the first 200 years or so, you'll probably be on the sharp end of a Holy War from somebody with an organized religion, and you'll have to switch--which isn't all bad, it can actually be a sound strategy.

I'd add Harald Fairhair, Petty King of Ostlandet to that list of good Norse characters to start with.

Historically he conquered all of Norway and is the founder of the kingdom.

The Swedes are always fun too, though.

Myth

06-21-2013, 13:29

I'd add Harald Fairhair, Petty King of Ostlandet to that list of good Norse characters to start with.

Historically he conquered all of Norway and is the founder of the kingdom.

The Swedes are always fun too, though.

That Harald was a pain in my buttox when I played as an Icelandic count. I still kicked him to the curb however, but it took some time. Now that I know how to develop my cities and family tree I think I'll give Iceland a second try. I personally enjoy starting as a Count, I view it as a greater challenge than Duke or King. Emperor is overkill.

I started as a Count in Britanny in 1066 and now have the Kingdom of Britanny and Kingdom of Burgundy for myself, as well as High Crown Authority, so almost getting that Primo which i desperately need with two Kingdom titles in my possession. France is wobbly, as is the HRE, and somehow Lotharingia managed to pop up and secure a place between the two.

I have not been paying attention in Italy, and now I find that it has been unified. We have a larg Italy blob and a very strong merchant empire of Pisa. Good thing that I upgraded Britanny so hard that I have more gold and troops than is viewed reasonable by the AI (so they abandoned all desires to bug me about 100 years ago).

Monk

06-22-2013, 02:56

I've had a few successful Duke starts, but only when they started as Independent. I've never had a game as a vassal count or duke where I lived more than a generation or two. What I'd really like to do next is try to take the Duchy of Saxony, break off from East Francia, and form and independent Catholic Germany. I see the AI do it almost every game, so it can't be that hard.

This is the goal of a game I am gonna start over the weekend. Either a Karling -> Germany or a Saxon Germany. Raise a powerful German state, defend Rome from heathens, take the holy lands, pacify the Slavic pagans, throw back the mongols... lots to do! ~D

That extra 200 years adds so much depth to a single campaign it's staggering.

slightly related note... the AI formed the HRE in an observer game I let run last night while I was busy with other things. That's the first time i've seen that, and they became a pretty scary force. They'd united Lotharingia, East Francia and Italy beneath its command just as the Age of the Crusader began.

Chaotix

06-22-2013, 03:33

This is the goal of a game I am gonna start over the weekend. Either a Karling -> Germany or a Saxon Germany. Raise a powerful German state, defend Rome from heathens, take the holy lands, pacify the Slavic pagans, throw back the mongols... lots to do! ~D

That extra 200 years adds so much depth to a single campaign it's staggering.

slightly related note... the AI formed the HRE in an observer game I let run last night while I was busy with other things. That's the first time i've seen that, and they became a pretty scary force. They'd united Lotharingia, East Francia and Italy beneath its command just as the Age of the Crusader began.

I was playing a game as Amalfi and Charles the Bald managed to unite ALL of the Carolingian kingdoms. Then he formed Francia.

I would be scared, but by that point I had already been forced to swear fealty to the the growing Byzantine Empire, which has been conquering new territory at a constant rate.

50 years later and Francia is still standing and quite formidable; had a couple of independence revolts from vassal kings but crushed them all. However, the Emperor had the unfortunate idea to also form the Holy Roman Empire. So as soon as someone survives to have more than a single male heir, that empire's gonna split. And actually, at that point it will probably be fairly historical, minus the presence of Karlings.

I'm starting to wonder with their sheer numbers, how the Karlings managed to almost completely die out by 1066, historically.

Monk

06-22-2013, 03:47

I'm starting to wonder with their sheer numbers, how the Karlings managed to almost completely die out by 1066, historically.

Imbecile rulers, internal pressures and viking raids mostly. They couldn't deal with the constant vassal factions that kept cropping up, and emptying the treasury to bribe off the vikings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Paris_(885%E2%80%93886)) didn't help.

Those negative traits are a killer :grin2:

Chaotix

06-22-2013, 03:58

You know what, here, have some screenshots. AI Francia is a sufficiently remarkable occurence.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/597007203816676197/FA5356EF9818F15D78398128C66F95502F58CFAB/

Here's Charles the Bald's great-grandson. I'm not sure when they created the HRE, but there's been a lucky string of one-son inheritances down to him and they've kept everything together. You can see he has Aquitaine and Burgundy left to himself, and then West Francia, Italy/Lotharingia, and East Francia/Bavaria as vassals. Literally every single kingdom in the region, the Karlings have.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/597007203816677672/8B1FE0F61D6C59BB633775B0084310D88EE8CE51/

My current liege. He's been on the throne since he was a baby. After surviving the initial succession war, nobody wanted to touch him and he started conquering, Italy-first. As soon as I knew I was next I swore fealty rather than lose everything. I'd been anticipating having to do just that, so I spent a lot of money ensuring I was Doge at the time, too.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/597007203816678992/1A39C6E3B703BFE845A20441369288FF1B4A65C1/

Finally, me and my little Republic. My own family's ancestry goes back to Naples and other places in southern Italy, so I thought it would be fun to ruler-design a Patrician family and see where I could get. Off to a slow start so far due to the low-tech trade post penalty, but we're starting to speed up. The Emperor jacked crown authority up to Medium, so I can't consolidate among my fellow vassals. Yet. I am anticipating by the time he dies I'll have enough money and there will be enough support to lower Crown Authority, and then I can really get rolling.

Once I can create Sicily and take all of the de jure territory, I'll declare independence. That's the plan, anyway.

Also, a couple of tidbits:
-You can see Venice is gone. They got eaten by the Swiss Band when they couldn't pay their bills.
-Genoa also got destroyed, but was reformed as a Frankish-culture republic under the Karlings.
-The Cumans have reformed Tengri.
-There was a formidable-looking Pagan Kingdom of Lithuania earlier; they had most of Pomerania too. They're in a civil war now.
-Norse are up to all sorts of mischief but ultimately still fractured.

Hooahguy

06-25-2013, 04:39

https://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w324/PrivateMajorG/Mappidy.jpg

How do you get that kind of screenshot?

rvg

06-25-2013, 13:11

Chaotix

06-25-2013, 16:45

Are there any long term drawbacks to reducing the number of duchies in the realm?

I'm still on my first CK2 game. Started out as Heinrich of HRE just so that I could learn the game mechanics without being killed, and lo and behold, 120 years/3 emperors later I'm still playing it. Anyway, I hate dukes. They're nothing but trouble. They scheme and they plot and then they scheme some more. They lead/join factions especially when a new emperor takes over and generally refuse to cooperate with me. So nowadays, whenever a duke rebels, I crush his little rebellion, revoke his duchy and immediately destroy it. I can eat the -50 rep hit with a few counts without a problem, but are there any other issues I should be aware of?

Hmm... Only that the starting size of the HRE is about as big as you can get with mostly Counts, and if you expand and want to keep it that way it's going to get ridiculous.

Generally, Counts are easier to deal with individually than Dukes, but a pain to deal with as a group. For instance, say your realm, the HRE, consists of about 20 de jure Duchies. It's probably a little bit more than that, but this will suffice. You can (and should) hold two of those Duchies yourself, and as much land within them as possible. Then, say all your vassals are Duke-level: you have 18 vassals to deal with, total.

There are usually 2-6 counties in a Duchy. If you remove all the Duchies, suddenly you will find yourself with around 50-75 direct vassals instead of 18. They are all weaker, yes, but if they all dislike you they are much harder to bribe or threaten off wholesale than a bunch of Dukes.

With the HRE in particular, things are a little different since you have Elective monarchy, and Counts can't vote. So getting rid of Dukes you don't like can help you maintain the succession. If you change from Elective to Primogeniture, you won't have to worry about that. At that point it's probably a better idea to give Duke titles to your enemies' former vassals after you revoke them - turning an enemy into an ally, or at the very least keeping them busy. The only time I would really worry about vassals is if they start to get multiple Duke titles, as then they can form Kingdoms, and you don't want that. In particular, Bohemia can be a pain since they are not your culture, but I figure 120 years in they have either converted to German or you've successfully dealt with them.

rvg

06-25-2013, 17:00

...There are usually 2-6 counties in a Duchy. If you remove all the Duchies, suddenly you will find yourself with around 50-75 direct vassals instead of 18. They are all weaker, yes, but if they all dislike you they are much harder to bribe or threaten off wholesale than a bunch of Dukes...

122 vassals and counting... As for Bohemia, I asked my vassal the Pope to excomm the Bohemian Queen, tried to arrest her, she rebelled. Crushed her rebellion, revoked her Kingdom, then destroyed it.

rvg

06-25-2013, 17:31

If you have The Old Gods, the new tech system relies on Duchies to generate tech points. Basically, if a county isn't organized into a Duchy, it won't get any more advanced without sending the spymaster to steal tech from someone else.
Hmm... that just might be the reason for me to get TOG. Didn't plan on buying it since I had no interest in playing a Pagan faction, but that new mechanic is intriguing.

Without the Old Gods, the biggest reason to create duchies is vassal management. Yes, Counts are easy to control, but what can they do? In a civil war they'll get annexed by your neighbors. With High Crown Authority or lower, where vassals can still wage war, counts aren't going to get you very much new land. The only plus is easy squashing during times of rebelliousness (like during the early reign of a bad king).
Yeah, civil wars suck. I have basically promised myself to never ever allow a civil war to happen, i.e. every time I see a faction gather up more than 15% of my strength, I excomm/arrest its leader.

Chaotix

06-25-2013, 22:47

If you have The Old Gods, the new tech system relies on Duchies to generate tech points. Basically, if a county isn't organized into a Duchy, it won't get any more advanced without sending the spymaster to steal tech from someone else.

So, if you can at all afford to do so, it is a good idea to create vassal duchies. Kings are entirely optional, and I tend to go without them, but some people prefer them for organizational purposes. In the end, you're going to have a civil war one way or the other--the plus is that you get to choose what it will look like well in advance.

Without the Old Gods, the biggest reason to create duchies is vassal management. Yes, Counts are easy to control, but what can they do? In a civil war they'll get annexed by your neighbors. With High Crown Authority or lower, where vassals can still wage war, counts aren't going to get you very much new land. The only plus is easy squashing during times of rebelliousness (like during the early reign of a bad king).

Good call on both the tech and annexed rebels, I forgot these points myself during my explanation.

Civil wars are almost impossible to avoid, but with high diplomacy you can usually prevent them from being too terrible. Being able to choose your heir with Elective (as in the HRE) is also a good way to ensure a smooth succession.

Myth

06-26-2013, 10:34

I have all the DLCs, I know that the tech system was different before (you could only favour which tech to get). I didn't know that Duchies mattered however. Inspired by these here posts, I started a game as the Jarl of Oppland (I think. The one who has modern day Denmark's capital). My life was all fun and games. First, the sons of Lodbrok asked who's face I would like to smash. I chose the Anglo-Saxon kingdom between Scotland and Wessex (so between Scotland and what appears to be London, Oxford, Winchester etc.) They died handily. Then I returned and told my neighbour to the east that I'm forming the Kindom of Denmark. It took some axe-to-the-face persuasion, but in the end he saw things my way.

Now a Kingdom, i raised Crown Authority to the paltry next-to-lowest state which I'm allowed and went to Ivar the Bonless's spineless son and informed him that from this day onward, Jorvik is part of the Kingdom of Denmark. A short debate involving axes and faces later, he too saw things my way.

Then I began playing "just the tip" with Wessex, chomping at their counties one at a time. They got the big idea of starting a holy war or two against me and failed miserably. Scotland also tried a holy war. Once.

Meanwhile i had some news shoved into my face, because I play CK2 on the highest speed setting usually, and normally have the political awareness of a potato. It turned out Sweden had formed, and for some reason we had East Fancia as a grey blob encompassing what I would call the height of the HRE's achievements - Capua to the south, my very borders to the north, a border with France and Lotharingia to the west (lotharingia was then promptly eaten by West Francia Grey Holly Roman Wannabee). To the east the Cumans and (surprise) my own Bulgarian Kingdom were having a hayday and the Basileos of the ERE was mainly preoccupied with not dying with his head impaled on a Bulgarian, Cuman or Arab spear. Strange, since someone reported that the ERE has a CB on everyone and anyone and it tends to blob like crazy with the Old Gods on.

So, anyway, It took some executins and encouragement to go join the Varangian guard to kill of all but one of my sons (pity the good one died young). I've been able to successfully emulate primageniture with Denmark this way. But I'm having trouble with the dukedoms of Jorvik and Pomerania, because thier leaders are always fighting someone within my borders. And that Pomeraninan bastard switched to Christianity and now half the time he is leading a faction to rebel against me. It also appears that I can't revoke a Ducal title without good reason.

I have two questions about this: do i absolutely have to form ducal titles? I can create 11 I think. I can also create the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Pomerania. Do I need to do so? How will Ducal titles benefit my technology? I've been stealing tech for 100 years already and I've slowly gotten pretty advanced.

I took a look at this whole "reforming the Norse faith" thing, but since I don't have the holy sites i can't do it yet. So I just subjugated Pomerania instead (hence the issues i mentioned above). And just as Sweden had fractured after an abysmal succession crisis and I eyed them and my good friend Fairhair's Ostlandet, suddenly, out of nowhere, East Francia started spamming Holy Wars at me. 20k stacks coming at me and that attrition bonus ain't what it used to be apparently. Now I have to huddle and wait for them in a province with rivers just to have a fighting chance. That, or spare 1000 gold in assassinations to get rid of their King. But I want to have a more permanent solution for them. Any suggestions? I'd take the usual subtle axe-to-the-face approach but they have more faces (and more axes) than myself, and they are mostly landlocked so I can't go all boats and scallywags on them.

Also, apparently I can call invasions and I didn't make use of this mechanic yet apart from the Lodbrok event. Would that help me do it?