Interactive History V: The Duel of the Sea

[Rodion Romanovich]

1B, but pursue with Zeppelin coverage, use 2 light cruisers and 2 BCs, they're fast and can retreat if it gets hot. Also have 2 BBs or so lag a bit behind these cruisers (they obviously can't take part in the chase of Furious), close enough to home to be able to retreat with the BCs if needed, but also close enough to the BCs to be able to join the two forces if needed, with the BCs turning around and the BBs keeping on forward. The Zeppeliners should 1. scout ahead of the BCs and 2. scout the flanks of the line obtained by drawing a line between the location of the BBs and BCs (hm I wonder if what I just wrote was comprehensible...).

2A, but wait until about 30 minutes after the landing. This will give the ships important time to get a bit further away from the coast, while giving enough time for the cavalry to slip away from the main force before all the troops are caught. Just a dozen or less of the cavalrymen should be able to do enough damage, and we need that ammo...

3A, our raid troops will be discovered anyway if we send the radio message, which we must send to get the ammo, so have them engage the enemy. If the can catch the bombardment force before we send our radio message they'll be able to destroy it before the force sighted at the Dogger Bank could intervene. However either way I'm quite sure the raid force will be lost. If it is lost we had better make sure it does a great deal of damage on it's way to the bottom...

4C the sighted force could be a trap for units chasing Furious, but could also be a force that could intercept and threaten our raid force. How large is our raid force? If it's capable of handling a single QE class BB with several smaller ships in support in it's current state with good margin, it'll probably be so by the time it has suffered some damage from engaging the bombardment force. I'll be back with an edit when I've judged the strength of the raid force...

[AggonyDuck]

1) Breakout sideoperation...
B: Mommsen makes a good argument that the Furious might not choose to follow the decoy, but needs to be chased away, sunk if possible.

Makes the most sense to me. If we can chase the Furious away while it's planes are in the air there's a good chance that the Brits will have troubles recovering and replacing the planes in time. Although I am sure that the Brits wouldn't send Furious out unescorted, it might actually be likely that there is a group of battlecruisers covering the carrier.

Currently Furious is perhaps the biggest asset for the Brits and I do not think that they would send it out without a strong proper escort.


2) The Kaiser's Offer

B: Keep silent and let the good Oberst do his job of sowing confusion and burning warehouses in Kent. The ammunition would be great, but not worth the risk of getting found out too soon, or a possible ambush of the forces requered for the capture.

We should avoid risking the operation at any cost, even if it might be for some rather nice extra ammunition. Either way I am sure that the army needs that ammunition just as much as we do. If they do break the radiosilence though, then I think we could send them that order.

Faking it is definately against the proper conduct of a German officer and most likely the Kaiser will see through our feint.

3) The British bombardment force

B: Don't do anything. It is risky so far out, and who knows what the British are hiding beyond the horizon of the coast?

This is definately not worth it. We have no idea of the strength of this force and any detachments of our strike force will just end up making it even more vulnerable. Also sending just battleships or torpedoboats is like asking for heavy casualties. We're currently in waters somewhat infested by British destroyers, so they can pull of nasty surprises against unescorted battleships.

4) The Unknown Operation*

B: Order two fast light cruisers to investigate. Fast in and fast out.

or

C: Let the British play what they want as long as they stay clear of the strike force.

This is propably one of the ships damaged badly in the last battle. It has propably lost it's propulsion and is being repaired at sea for now to be able to return it to port.

So in both cases we're talking off ordering the strike force to detach forces to deal with it?

This would arguably destroy the radio silence of course, so I am going to opt against it. But if the light cruisers are in port in Wilhemshafen, then I opt for it. Or if the strike force breaks the radio silence, then detaching the two light cruisers might be smart.

Just destroying the barge would be enough to keep that battleship stationary for a while longer and thus perhaps allow us to destroy it later.

[Franconicus]

1) Breakout sideoperation...
D: The two zeppeliners' positions during their attacks seems to indicate that Furious might not stay in one spot, and thus it is far from certain it will even spot the fleet. So just ignore it and sail when the time is fitting.

2) The Kaiser's Offer
B: Keep silent and let the good Oberst do his job of sowing confusion and burning warehouses in Kent. The ammunition would be great, but not worth the risk of getting found out too soon, or a possible ambush of the forces requered for the capture.

3) The British bombardment force
B: Don't do anything. It is risky so far out, and who knows what the British are hiding beyond the horizon of the coast?

4) The Unknown Operation*
B: Order two fast light cruisers to investigate. Fast in and fast out.

[King Kurt]

Our channel raids must take top priority and any other action will divert forces as well as the possibility of furthur casulties. So

1) Definately D - anything else will either split our force or affect our timings.

2) A I think we should give the Cavalry a chance for a moment of glory - the ammo will be very nice. Radio traffic can be a nusance - could we send a message via a Zep?

3) B Ignore it our target is now firmly port facilities, not the enemy fleet. Why risk furthur casualties.

4) C Again, ignore it. It is almost certainly a BB which was damaged, ran aground on the Dogger bank for repairs. It will be protected, so again, why risk casualties. Perhaps we should share the information with our friends in the U boat service.

I feel the story rising to its climax - I can hardly bear the tension!!!:2thumbsup:

[Uesugi Kenshin]

1) D, Chasing the Furious is completely unrelated to helping the offensive.l Plus I bet it has a rather heavy escort near enough that we will be hard-pressed to combat it and knock out their ports.

2) B, I would love to have the ammo, but we can't really afford to start sending messages to our landing force. Could we try to reason with the Kaiser and request more ammo anyway though?

3) B, we can't do anything to jeapordize our strikes on the ports, and I think our raid force could get back safely with a bit of luck.

4) C, ignore it, just get in, blow the ports to hell and hope the British don't have anything anywhere near the coast to stop us.

[Kraxis]

1D means sailing out during daylight to get to the Channel at night and thus under cover while the infantry lands and the ships position themselves for bombardment. But it runs the risk of Furious being in position to spot the fleet as it leaves the Bight.

1C means sneaking out during night, but will result in the fleet arriving shortly before first light, risking discovery of the infantry landing at Boulogne.

1A&B means the Furious is supposed to be distracted while the fleet sneaks out as in 1D. Of course the forces are to attempt to return to he main fleet if possible (it won't be going faster than 13 knots, the top speed of the two commerce raiders).

So any dividing of the fleet is only meant to be temporary is possible (if Furious manages to keep an eye on them they can't rejoin of course).

You can't argue with Wilhelm. He is proud and vain, and he is in a tough spot (and he knows it). He needs something to guard him from the wrath of Ludendorff when he finds out the ammo has been diverted from the front. The propaganda coup would be it, that needs to be HIS operation.

Technically a zeppeliner could give the orders, but currently there are no zeps home that are capable of flying that distance. You will have to wait until they have returned, rested and refueled. And then the flight to Kent is going to be risky as it will take the zep right over where Furious is supposedly hiding, plus possible British fighters in Kent could intercept it. So if it arrives it will arrive rather late in the day and then it isn't even certain the cavalry will be available for such operations. The good Oberst might very well hav sent them to occupy some warehouses along the northern coast, and thus not be in contact with them.

[AggonyDuck]

Are any of our submarines currently in port?

I am asking because the immobile battleship would be a perfect target for a submarine. Because we most likely now the location of the battleship and thus finding it wouldn't be too hard. I think a submarine could handle it rather nicely and at a little cost.

[discovery1]

1D, but with a twist. Prep and have a short window were we are ready to go but don't. If there is weather that would ground the Furious' planes, then we leave under its cover. At the end of the window, we sail reguardless.

2 A but only when we have reason to believe that the landing is VErY immenent, like only an hour to go and with the condition that if the horses walk into an ambush then they should surrendor. Glory or an all expense paid vacation to Canada.

3 D. Don't go out there. Too risky.

4 Again, leave them be too risky

[Flavius Clemens]

1) B.
Torn between B and D on this one – but I fear C is too high risk for the Boulogne force. I doubt A will be enough to distract Furious. Our forces are probably able to outrun any support Furious has, so B edges it for me.

2) A, I think.
The ammo would be a big help, though we shouldn’t make a huge gamble for it. So I have a couple of questions -
a) is it clear where the target lodge is and do our troops have good enough maps to find it? No point in trying if it will just leave our men blundering around in the dark.
b) My gut feeling is that sailing up and landing a whole regiment isn't an unobtrusive job, even on a seculded stretch of coast at night, so that breaking radio silence around landing time won't actually give the Brits much (if any) earlier notice of our arrival. Is this a reasonable supposition?

If we do send a detachment for the lodge it needs to be clear to them that getting the ships home safely is top priority, they won’t wait around to be ambushed by the RN if the lodge force isn’t back on time.
C is certainly out – if the Army High Command get wind of what we did they will expose us to the Kaiser, keep the ammo and we see our naval career end in disgrace.

3) B
The odds aren’t good enough to risk an attack, especially without knowing what class of vessel we would be facing. Certainly don't risk splitting our forces.

4) C.
If the battleship is stuck then it’s unlikely to be back in fighting condition by the time of the showdown on the channel ports. So attacking it brings little benefit to us for our ultimate objective but carries real risk. I do second the others though – a U boat attack would be worth a try if we can wrangle one, or maybe if there's cloud cover a zeppelin raid bombing from within the clouds via gondola spotting.

[Rodion Romanovich]

hm I think I'll change my votes...
1B as before

2A as before, but as before wait half an hour or one hour after the supposed landing to give the raid force time to get away a bit. It's a good compromise between how long they have a chance to avoid capture by the enemy and waiting as long as possible to allow the ships to get away as far as possible

3B instead of A. Don't attack, I now realize the "odd sighting" is an immobile force thus bombardment force and odd sighting force can't unite, so no need to go after the bombardment force. Only possbility for enemy is to go after our raid force with their bombardment force, in which case the same match occurs and no stronger match occurs, so going after the bombardment force is no improvement, it only slows down the return of the raid force, making the chance of capture greater. As the "odd sighting" is stationary I suppose there's a very good chance of the raid force escaping after all. Plus having reviewed the composition of the raid force, it's apparent that it is in no condition to engage enemies with much destroyer support.

4C as before. A sub would probably be able to finish the BB off easily so the only thing we need to do is to report the location to the sub fleet and the British have one BB less :2thumbsup:

[King Kurt]

Kraxis's information on the options for question 1 - i.e. distract the Furious etc. - has got me thinking about this. My initial thought was that we should not split our forces or compromise the operation - i.e. troops arriving in daylight. The consequence of doing nothing and sticking to our original timetable is that we might be discovered leaving the Bight - but what does that mean? - in all previous operations we have gone basicaly North to engage the Home Fleet, so it would not be unreasonable for the English to think something similar was happening. They would not necessarily think that we would be heading south. Even if they did guess that, what is the absolute worse that could happen? the English Fleet could be be in the North Sea as we return to base. To be honest, we would get a bit of a hiding - but would also inflict a good deal of damage ourselves. But more importantly, we would have done our principle strategic task - disruption of the movement of supplies from England to France. Our fleet might be shot as a major weapon, but it would have struck a critical blow in support of the Spring offensive. These are desparate times - if the offensive does not work, then Germany is finished, so let us have one last roll of the dice to see if we can tip the balance.
So, I stick to my original choice of D - let us take a chance of discovery, it is much less risk than possibly loosing a couple of ships from the operation. In particular, I think we need all the light forces we can lay our hands on in the narrow waters of the Channel. Our plan has 3 targets - so there is an element of distraction there - there is a strong possibility that by striking at 3 ports at least 1 will get through with complete surprise - as the Allies would not be sure which was the main target.:2thumbsup:

[Uesugi Kenshin]

King Kurt I agree, we just have to hope that this will turn the tide of the war as a whole, and if it doesn't we're going to be scuttling the majority of our fleet in the North Sea anyway...

[Kagemusha]

My gut feeling tells me that we might be in for a suprise.Maybe the English are on the move and we are going to face an attack rather then carry on one.~:smoking:

[Ludens]

The succes of option one is really dependent on what the British will do. In case of A), I doubt they will waste one of their precious planes on following two light ships. B) will weaken our force and the British are mad if they haven't got other ships to protect the Furious. C) Seems the best option, to escape Furious, but is that worth the risk of the infantry being discovered? D) on the other hand risks discovery of the entire action before hand.

In the end, I think 1C: it's not certain the landings at Boulogne will be spotted, but the British will certainly be keeping an eye out at our harbours.

2B) The job is hard enough without having to hunt for royal hunting cabins, and I really doubt that the Kaiser's offer ammounts to much.

3B) Let's not spread our forces too thin, and hope that the bombardment force won't be in our way when we move it.

4C) Doesn't seem a threat. Let's concentrate on our goal.

[Kraxis]

To Kent and Beyond

As the darkness lays itself as a heavy blanket over the port, you calculate that the landingforces have arrived in Kent. It is now or never to send the order to the good Oberst. If you wait he will have fanned out the cavalry and can't be recalled in time...
The Kaiser's offer is very intreaguing to you. The ammo in the stores is very limited, and with the pre-dreadnoughts returning to duty you will lack a great number of 11 inch shells, which the Nassaus and the battlecruisers up to Seydlitzuse. And since the two Bayerns have been in the thick of the fighting in each battle they have basically emptied the stores of 15 inch ammo. But it is a great risk to send the orders... You can't make up your mind, it is ripping you apart, and you get agry at that. Such a simple decision and you can't make it, the stress must be getting at you. Too long in the thick of the fighting and too long with too little sleep and rest.
Stifffaced Stossburg notices your predicament. "Herr Admiral, is there something wrong?"
You smile weakly. "Not with me, if that is what you ask..." You sigh. "Well, actually there is. I can't make up my mind."
The younger officer frowns at you. "But you have never lacked that decisive ability. Are you sure that there isn't something you would chose over the other?"
"I don't know! That is the whole point. It is getting at me."
"Ah... I understand. Did you think of one choice first? Sometimes the first belief is what we should go for."
You keep silent for a few seconds as you think back... "Yes... Yes, there was. I think you are right, perhaps I should go fo that, if anything because my hunches have helped me before."
Stossburg visibly lightens up. "Great! What will it be then?"
"We send the order!"

A few minutes later you are standing in the radioroom watching the wireless operator send the message to Oberst Von Brackenau. You pray in your silent mind that it doesn't arrive at the wrong time. Your thoughts are broken off as a response returns. It reads: "Interesting. It is done. Anything else?"
Apparently the order arrived before the troops had been unloaded too much, but it is also possible that none have been unloaded so far and the shipsare still getting into position. Bah! No time to think about what might or might not be going on over there, you can't help it anyway, what is doen is done.
"Herr Admiral, they are expecting a response to the query." Stossburg looks at you.
"Yes." You turn to th operator. "Send a negative." Stossburg suddenly fidgets. "What is it Stossburg?"
"Well, I was thinking about the bombardmentforce and the odd lone ship on the Bank. Should we investigate at least?"
"I would like to, trust me, but we need to save our forces for the last big push. I can't use four damaged Kaisers for much, even if they sink all three enemy ships. And what would an investigation of a single immobile ship do? It would just tell the British that we have a presence, getting them to swarm to the area, at the wrong time I might add. No, we will let them pass, and let the British stay ignorant."
Stossburg isn't pleased, but he nods and seems to have accepted your arguments. Now it is up to Kommodore Loesch on Kaiser to handle the rest of the operation. You return to your office to look at some papers regarding numbers of sailors and ships.

The entire day of the 24th pass with little intersting work. But the inside info on the offensive has it slowing down considerably compared to the first days, and casualties are mounting immensively.
You do however arrange for two of the older and smaller torpedoboats stationed in Belgium to rendezvous with Von Brackenau and the cavalryraiders for extraction. By now Brackenau is sending back a stream of messages. His forces managed to disembark quickly from the ships, and within two hours the cavalry was already fanning out. However the infantry, taking a backseat to the cavalry took longer and it wasn't until a few hours before first light they had finished disembarking. The only resistance had been a battery of fieldguns, which had quickly been silenced by the battleships.
Surprise seems to have been total.
His latest report mentions a capture of two warehouses full of food and cotton, and the capture of a special target.
Resistance has been stiffening with local militias engaging the infantry, but they have been uncoordinated and easily broken, while some cavalry forces have encountered small detachments of infantry, though the contacts have been short so the knowledge of their abilities have been limited to more or less nothing.
Also the Leipzig II finally arived after a troublesome jouney through the Kiel-Canal.

On the 25th the landoffensive is called off after the fighting bogged down to small advances and what can be called an open version of trenchwafare. While you think this is odd, you are informed that this was merely a diversionary offensive, meant to draw Allied reserves away from the Channel ports. You are however not given a date for a renewal of offensive operations. This infuriates you greatly as you will not know if Operation Mamba will fall outside the timeframe and thus fail spectacularly.
Late in the day Baden is finished, and Bayern, Hindenburg and Kronprinz Wilhelm all leave the docks to finish the last repairs while at their berths, though Kronprinz Wilhelm has not gotten her central turret repaired, just like Bayern has not had her upper rear turret repaired, but her damaged single gun has been repaired.
In the late afternoon Kommodore Loesch reports that he has entered into combat with five British ships, presumably battlecruisers.
The engagement is short and vicious. The battlecruisers clearly seek to engage the transports, while Loesch does his best to protect them. Smokelaying torpedoboats quickly obscure the transports while the battleships lay themselves in between. This prompts the battlecruisers to shift their target to the torpedoboats and they manage to sink one before retreating. No hits were recorded on the battleships or merchants, but the old light cruiser Settin was struck several times and her return to active duty must be presumed at an end when she returns.
Unfortunately no hit were noticed on the battlecruisers either, though it is possible given the heavy smokecover that blanketed the battlefield.

Later in the evening a small seaplane attaches itself to the group and hugs the edge of the range of the few AA guns. Clearly Furious remains on station near Heligoland. However, you remain confident that the Furious can't cover the entire area, and you leaving with the fleet should be unnoticed by her. After all her plane only arrived AFTER the clash. The British ships attempt no further attacks on the fleet until it arrives inside the Bight a few hours past midnight. And early in the morning of the 26th the ships enter the port.
To your great displeasure you learn that the battleships had expended a considerable amount of ammo. The panic of both the sudden appearance of the hidden battery and the battlecruiser attack had Loesch order a full retaliation with all guns, no time for ladders and careful aiming, just pure pounding. The result is that around a third the ammo of the big guns was expended in two short engagements. You can't really punish Loesch as he did what was technically was right, protecting his charges at his best abilities, and given how a few hits for any weapon could have caused considerable damage among the transports speed was of the essence. It was the lesser of two evils.
If you hadn't chosen on supporting the Kaiser on the matter of propaganda chances are that the ships with 12 inchers would set out with around halfempty stores of ammo. Just like the 15 inchers and 11 inchers.

The good news is that during the night the six cavalry raiders were extracted from Kent with the trophees, as well as a nice collection of wine and cognac cases. They arrived safely in Belgium.
The somewhat bad news is that the crew of the Betruger, including the entire collection of officers have come down with a serious fever. Especially the illness of the captain is a bad blow. He had until then become intimate wit the capabilities of the ship and how to use her to the fullest.
Now you must find a new commander for the raidingforce at Calais.

Of the six possible candidates you prune the list to three, and in the afternoon of the 27th they all arrive at your office for interviews. All three are hardworking individuals, and the interviews go fast.
As the last of the three leave your office, you turn to Stossburg. "So who do you think would be best?"
The Kommodore frowns in thought. "I'm not sure. I mean Fregattenkapitän (Wolfgang) Wegener has seen plenty combat with Regensburg. He is a very experienced battlecommander. There can be no doubt that he is one of the best smallship commanders we have."
"I sense some regret in your words."
"Yes. While he is good at what he does, he is hardly experienced in this kind of warfare. He has always been the first to charge in and fight. We require a great deal of composion for this mission, and he has never been in charge of a unit of ships, always a single ship."
"Good, that was what I thought as well. What about Fregattenkapitän Erich Raeder?"
"Now there we have an interesting choice. He is calm, intelligent, fast in his mind and quite cautious, some would say that he is also a bit stiff. But he never commanded a ship, save a squadron. Though he has seen how it is done by being Chief of Staff for Hipper. And he was present at Dogger Bank, Jutland and the Great Chase. He should be able to cope with a command. He is my choice."
You can't help but chuckle a little, a staffer chosing another staffer. "I'm not surprised. What do you think about Korvettenkapitän Günter Lütjens?"
"He is young, not yet 29. He is notoriously proud and doesn't care much for protocol."
"Yes, I noticed that he wore his cap like the U-Boat commanders, with the stiffener removed."
"And he didn't wear his decorations either. He is just that sort of man. I would say he is unreliable. However, he is considered a tactical genius by his peers, and he has already led a torpedoboat attack on Dunkerque. But it is almost a certainty that he doesn't conform to orders, and he changes the objectives as he sees fit. If it hadn't been for the war I doubt the man would have a future in the Navy, and even so he will never reach Kommodore or command large ships. Besides his rank is too low to actually command an important squadron. He is my last choice."
"Interesting... He certainly is a wild card, I will give you that. Well, it seems I have to ponder at this. Tell all three to remain at the base until tomorrow."
Stossburg nods and leaves the office.

Late in the evening a long train arrives at the station, carrying thousands of shells for the heavy guns. As soon as it is unloaded another arrives and before the morning of the 28th, you can be certain that each ship will be fully loaded, with a bit more in the stores in port.
And in the early morning Grosser Kurfürst leaves the dock under own power, but she still lacks her upper turret in the rear.
This leaves you with 12 battleships, of which 4 are in various damaged states with three turrets not in a serviceable state. Further you have 4 battlecruisers of which two are damaged. But all ships are able to sail at top speed and are now able to load fully on ammo.
You also have 14 light cruisers, of which 4 are old outdated ships and 5 are very modern ships of the Cöln class. Also you have managed to scrape enough topedoboats together, for instance Lütjens brought five boats with him and another seven has been transferred from escortduty in the Baltic, giving you a total of 26 topedoboats.
With the five Pre-Dreadnoughts that gives you a total of 61 warships, nearly two thirds of the Jutland force.
This collection of strength gives your confidence a great boost, and you wonder at when the operation should be launched.

What will you do now?

1) The commander for the Betruger force.
A: The aggressive and experienced Wolfgang Wegener.
B: The cautious and intelligent Erich Raeder.
C: The flamboyant and brilliant Günter Lütjens.

2) Date of operation.
A: Set out late afternoon today.
B: Wait until the 30th.
C: Wait until the 2rd of April.

[Kagemusha]

So the day has come to solve this campaign.:bow:

We need a brilliant man of action that can adapt to any unsuspected changes.So my pick is:

1) The commander for the Betruger force.
C: The flamboyant and brilliant Günter Lütjens.

Well the situation is not getting any better at this point so lets roll the dices:

2) Date of operation.
A: Set out late afternoon today.

Btw Kraxis you nominated some people with a great future as candidates for this very hazardous mission.It was a pleasure to read about them when checking them out.~:)

[AggonyDuck]

What exactly will we gain by waiting an extra two days?

[Kraxis]

Thank you Kage... Good to see you noticed them.

What you will gain is more time to repair the damaged ships and get everything in order. You can never get too much planning and organizing.

But that is not the point. At lest it is minor.
The point is that you don't know when the next stage of the great offensive will be started. If you set out too soon and it starts too late your efforts will have been in vain as the Allies will be able to get supplies from ports further south.
The entire point is to knock out the Channel ports so that there will be a consideral amount of confusion for a while, as well as a grave lack of supplies at hand when the offensive goes towards the coast. If given time the Allies will be able to cope with the loss of the ports, and in any case they will be able to use them soon enough, if just in a limited capacity.

So timing is important, but you lack the knowledge important to make the timing fit. Sometimes info doesn't travel to the right persons for various reasons, this is one of those cases.

[AggonyDuck]

1) The commander for the Betruger force.
C: The flamboyant and brilliant Günter Lütjens.

2) Date of operation.
B: Wait until the 30th.

These two options seemed the best to me, so I went with them. Nothing else to it really.

[discovery1]

Awesome update Kraxis. Thanks.

1 C)

2) I have thrown my eye into the well of wisdom, thus I have reason to believe that the offensive will start on the 4th. So I say C, wait until the 2nd of April. Not that I have any reason to think Kraxis won't change things....

[Franconicus]

1C)
2A)
Whatever we do now, it will not be too soon to help the infantry, it may only be too late. Let's use the confusion of the Brits. After all the caution we have shown until now, they won't expect us to strike again right now!

[Peasant Phill]

1) C
My first choice was B. However, Raeder hasn't commanded a ship yet. Obvious Lütjens is a liability, but a genius and experienced in attacking ports. War brings out the best and the worst in people.(Like Boyington's black sheep) The whole operation is risky, a stroke of genius could be just what we need.

2) B
If we're just guessing, we can wait a few days so our force packs some more punch.

[King Kurt]

Tough choices on the new commander - but like most, I go for 3 - a bit of flair is what is needed - our hero will provide the calm head and the back up.
I think we should go straight away, all is in place and the offensive is flagging.:2thumbsup:

[discovery1]

Tough choices on the new commander - but like most, I go for 3 - a bit of flair is what is needed - our hero will provide the calm head and the back up.
I think we should go straight away, all is in place and the offensive is flagging.:2thumbsup:

The offensive farther inland is over. It was just a diversion. The main offensive is to be directed at Ypre and the channel ports. Historically it started the 4th of April, so I would think it would start sometime during the first week of April. Thus
I'm inclinded to think that we should wait a bit. Now would be too early. What's the date in game? The 25th?

[Flavius Clemens]

German troops running rampant in Kent and brought out safely for the loss of just a torpedo boat... Oh the Royal Navy must have egg on its face today!

1) Like the majority I favour C, Lütjens (just ahead of A, Wegener.) Now is no time to use a captain without practical flottila command experience, and sailing into Calais under the French shore batteries in a ship stuffed with tonnes of explosives needs a charismatic leader to carry the sailors with him.

2) C Wait till 2nd April.
If the first stage of the land offensive has stalled then going today will be a waste. As Kraxis has said "If you set out too soon and it starts too late your efforts will have been in vain as the Allies will be able to get supplies from ports further south."
Over and above what happened in real life, as the army has just lost a couple of train loads of artillery ammunition to us, their build up for the next phase of the attack will take time. So waiting is strategically vital. I would really urge those of you who want to set sail today to reconsider. As a small added bonus waiting gives us time to complete repairs and continue with exercises for the pre-dreadnaughts and the newly arrived ships.

[AggonyDuck]

What's the date in game? The 25th?

From what I've understood it should be the 28th of April today.

[discovery1]

From what I've understood it should be the 28th of April today.

Ah, thanks. So I guess the offensive could start anywhere from 4 days to 2 weeks from now, at least taking those train loads of ammo we got and they didn't.

[Kraxis]

Erhm... The regiment is still in Kent. It knew it was a one-way trip for most of the men. The small fleet couldn't wait around to pick them up or offer support. That would just be an invitation to be crushed by superior British naval forces.

At the same time, only a few hours wouldn't generate any results worth the effort. So it had to be a oneway trip for the troops. The prospects of a safe POW-camp after a disruptive period in Kent wasn't something that scared the troops off. And given the estimated lack of regulars in the English countryside it seemed perfectly safe to carry this out.

[King Kurt]

The debate about the start date is interesting. Initially, my inclination was to strike when the iron is hot. However, the point about coordinating with the offensive is important - but made difficult in that the Army has not told us when they are making the big push!! The other point of context is what the English fleet is doing. Inevitably they would sortie in response to the Kent raid and there are the forces with the single ship on the Dogger bank. So we can assume increased naval activity in the North Sea and Channel for a few days.
This all adds up to me changing my mind - I think we should wait until the 2nd of April. We might catch the English fleet just back in base and low on fuel and it would probably fit with the offensive better. There would also be more time for more training, supplying, repairing etc.:2thumbsup:

[discovery1]

Why can't we just ask when the offensive is going to be renewed?

[Franconicus]

Because it is confidential!

[Flavius Clemens]

Erhm... The regiment is still in Kent. It knew it was a one-way trip for most of the men. The small fleet couldn't wait around to pick them up or offer support. That would just be an invitation to be crushed by superior British naval forces.

At the same time, only a few hours wouldn't generate any results worth the effort. So it had to be a oneway trip for the troops. The prospects of a safe POW-camp after a disruptive period in Kent wasn't something that scared the troops off. And given the estimated lack of regulars in the English countryside it seemed perfectly safe to carry this out.

Ah, I misunderstood when we took out the ones who had raided the hunting lodge. At least they were able to cause trouble a little longer, and a raid like that must still have shocked the British.

[AntiochusIII]

Why can't we just ask when the offensive is going to be renewed?Even if it is confidential, I have to agree with disco and ask if there's any influence left to use. This is crucial, lest the efforts be wasted or be too late to be of use.

The first set, the commander, I'll have to unfortunately go with 3. I don't really trust the guy -- being too flamboyant is going to be devastating for our operation -- but the other two choices are too flawed. Wegener is too useful as a commander for other operations and too aggressive, also without experience in this kind of warfare. Raeder is an interesting choice, but not for this job: his World War II career shows a tendency to be especially cautious with the resources he had. Not a man for a daring raid.

The second set of choices, well, I'll wait until the 2nd of April, or at least when the offensive gets going (if it gets earlier than the date). There's no point going now and failing to achieve anything worthwhile.

It's rather sad, though. The British are probably right now confused by the shock of us in Kent. There's nothing to exploit from this confusion unless we want to go out and try and take their ships down one by one like the old days.

:balloon2:

[JimBob]

For the commander C) Günter Lütjens We need a rule breaking fllambouyant guy with the class to pull of something that is not a part of basic training.

Maybe we can use some of the sway with the Kaiser to find out, after the Kent raid he should be on our side.

Failing that, plan for April 2nd. The offensive hopefully will be within it's first week and breaking the ports could cause the necessary dissruption.

[Kommodus]

1. C

So he won't obey orders precisely... so what? This job requires someone with cleverness and initiative.

2. B

Assuming the offensive is going to start on the 4th, I'd rather get a bit of a head start on it. The longer the channel ports are open, the more supplies the Allies can transport to the mainland before we arrive to close them down. Besides, there's the matter of the British fleet - when we give ourselves time to repair and prepare for battle, we give them time to do the same. I'm sure they could still crush us in open battle if it came to that.

[Franconicus]

I agree with Kommodus. After the first invasion, the Entende troops should be low on supply now. So it is time to cut it off right now, not just when the new operations start.

[Rodion Romanovich]

1c 2b

[King Kurt]

I agree with Kommodus. After the first invasion, the Entende troops should be low on supply now. So it is time to cut it off right now, not just when the new operations start.
Franc

The first invasion - I assume you mean the Kent Operation - was a pin-prick. All the supplies were probably coming from London - the biggest and busiest port in the world at this time. The key point, I believe, about the timing is the English fleet - they must react to the kent operation - think of what the Kaiser would have wanted if it had happened in Prussia - and so I assume they are rushing about the North sea and the channel in case it was the fore runner of something big etc, etc. A few days of that will deplete their bunkers and they will have to return to port to re-coal - only the very modern boats used oil - so that is the time to attack. That, coupled with making the maximum impact in support of the Spring Offensive, means that the 2nd is the best day.:2thumbsup:

[Franconicus]

Sorry, my post was misleading. The first invasion, I mean the operation of the army in France. I assume that the French and British troops there already used everything they had to stop our army. Now they are calling for more. If the Allies can bring more troops and supply to France right now they will be prepared to stop the next operation (of the army). The navy operation has to be some days before the land operations or it will loose its efficiency.

Additionally, look at the situation from the British point of view. The land invasion is stopped. The German navy did a desperate one way assault, that is finished now, too. From all their experience the German navy is anything but aggressive. Therefore I do not think that they expect another strike. I guess they prepare another offensive operation to punish us.

[AggonyDuck]

Additionally, look at the situation from the British point of view. The land invasion is stopped. The German navy did a desperate one way assault, that is finished now, too. From all their experience the German navy is anything but aggressive. Therefore I do not think that they expect another strike. I guess they prepare another offensive operation to punish us.

You forget that other humans are playing the Brits and they know that we have to act if we're going to win. What they don't know is when and where we're going strike and this is the only advantage we have currently. (although they can easily guess where though)

[Kagemusha]

I agree with Frank.We have to remember that there are huge storages of supplies on the French side of Canal.And if we attack too late.The supply cut will come too late for the land attack.The best situation to support the land forces is to cut the supplies so that the Allied are short on supplies at the time the attack starts.That way the effect of our efforts will give out the maximum benefit.:bow:

[Ludens]

1C) Unconventional operations call for unconventional commanders.

2B) I don't like this one. It just depends on gueswork when the army will attack. Sailing immediatly is a bad idea: I doubt the army is that fast and the British are probably on alert. Sailing at the 2th seems the best idea, if the historical offensive was at the 4th, but if something goes wrong it leaves us very little time. So the middle road is probably the best one.

[Kraxis]

Eventuality and Finality

As you sleep, you dream of all the major decisions you have made recently, and the big battles return to haunt you. Dead sailors, missing legs, arms or even half their heads stare accusingly at you, as you cover the same terrain once more. Finally one speak up with a raspy voice affected by saltwater, his cap indicates he is from the illfated Ostfriesland: "You! You left us to die... And now you plan to do the same to thousands of others. You have blood on your hands, my blood, THEIR BLOOD!" He waves his left stump of an arm at the others. "Do you think you have the right to fight for honour? You play with the lives of your men." He falls silent and returns to stare at you with the others. Meanwhile you direct the battle at your best ability, but your ships are struck time and again, and one by one they fall out of line and sinks. You scream out in rage and begin to throw stuff around because of the unfair treatment. The sailor makes a short comment as the world fades and changes. "You will never forget us for we will all be back every night. You will not know peace." The darkness takes you, and you slowly open your eyes, your heart pounding and your body drenched in sweat.

It is barely past 6 in the morning but your servant is already up and preparing breakfast. As he enters you wave him out and tells him to fetch Stossburg.
The younger officer enters as you munch on a breadroll, his face quickly takes on a deep concerned frown.
"Herr Admiral... You look like you have had your soul ripped out."
"It feels like it too, but it was only a dream, do no worry about it, please."
"Very well, but if you are unfit to lead it would hurt us more if you stayed on."
The rage and fury of the dream haven't entirely left you and you lash out at the man. "DID I ASK FOR YOUR OPPINION?!?! No, I asked you to let it be! Consider it an order now! And you will be silent!"
Stossburg snaps to attention and is stiff like a board, staring right at the wall. You sit for a while staring at him, daring him to move or speak, but he stays silent. Finally you speak again.
"Good... I have made a decision about who should lead the Calais-force." Again you let silence drop, once more daring Stossburg to speak up, but he is a professional officer and stays his mouth.
"I have chosen Günter Lütjens." Stossburg fidgets in place but says nothing. "You have something to say? Speak up."
"He is a loose cannon, we can't trust him."
"We need a loose cannon for this kind of work. Besides if he dies, which is rather likely, we will not have to put up with his insolence any longer."
Stossburg smiles at this. "Ahhh... now I understand."
"Good that you do. Transfer four torpedoboats of the same class to the Betruger, they will form the force. Now go and inform the men about my decision."
Stossburg smacks his heels together, spin around smartly and march out to inform Lütjens of his new comission.

After Stossburg leaves you think to yourself.
And now for the hard part. The army and Ludendorff in particular has been decidedly stupid in choosing not to inform me of when the offensive will be renewed. How am I to know when to strike? Bloody landlubbers! They know nothing of the difficulties in commanding a fleet, they just assume we will be ready when they want it but do not support us when we need them. We will sail on the 30th. Hopefully that will leave us time to do some damage.

Later in the day you coordinate the repairefforts but keep yourself informed on what is going on in Kent.
The troops retreated into the Isle of Thanet and set defensive perimeters already yesterday. The British infantry has increased the pressure and their numbers have been swelling to the point that the cavalry charges into their flanks are no longer effective, and the cavalry has dismounted to bolster the ranks. Luckily the British infantry are raw recruits and their attacks have been horribly uncoordinated and hasty, but numbers is a quality by itself.
Before the retreat the troops managed to ravage a good section of the Kentish north coast and the warehouses there.
The afternoon brings a message that battleships has begun to shell the German positions despite the presence of considerable numbers of civilians.

Lütjens takes a good reign of his little taskforce, and puts them through several testruns to see how well they can be coordinated. The energy and tactical abilty of the man is staggering to say the least. As you think about it, you actually believe the man might become a good admiral one day, but that neccesitates a victory in this war.
The extra time you have given yourself allows you to bring in a few extra torpedoboats, bringing the total up to 33. And you manage to get another two of the outdated light cruisers ready for action. And by some miracle the Westfalen is once more ready to fight, if not at full speed.

Finally, late in the afternoon of the 30th, with the sun moving ever farther to the west you set out with your entire fleet. 71 warships and two merchant raiders carrying the infantry. As you leave the port the last message from the beleaguered troops in Kent tick in. Their ammunition is nearly gone and they are surrendering. No mention of enemy battleships.

The weather is bad, which is good for you, but not so bad that Furious would ground her planes. However the low clouds forces her planes to fly low if they want to be able to spot anything and that keeps their spotting range fairly short.
Out in the Bight you split the fleet up into three sections. The Scouting Division, consisting of the battlecruisers, four of the Cöln light cruisers and temporarily attached is Lütjens' raiders. The Battle Force, cosisting of all the Dreadnoughts, the six remaining modern light cruisers and sixteen torpedoboats. The Strike Force, consisting of the five Pre-Dreadnoughts, the six outdated light cruisers, the two merchant raiders and the twelve slowest topedoboats.
Each section sails at a distance to each other. The Scouting Division ranging out to sea, looking for trouble. The Battle Force keeping itself closer in, near the coast, guarding the Strike Force. You hope that if the Scouting Division is noticed it will be believed to be a minor foray, and if the Battle Force is discovered it will keep prying eyes from the slow and vulnerable Strike Force.

Before you left port, you managed to persuade U-Boat Command to let their boats out in the North Sea to finally assist you. They won't redirect them, but at least they will remain in place some distance out, to act as an umbrella of eyes.

The first tentative hours pass as you hurridly leave the secure, but well scouted, Bight. The three sections quickly split up to assume their transit roles. And as darkness falls you have heard nothing from Kapitän zur See Schlick, captain of Derfflinger and commander of the Scouting Division. You take that as a good sign.
But during the night one of the boats forming the umbrella messages that it has just been passed by a considerable British force of large warships. It's captain estimates seven large ships, but becasue of the distances involved and the darkness he couldn't make out the shapes for proper identification. Their bearing and speed (guessed at just short of 20 knots) has them going to a position in front of you.

As darkness once more begins to give way to light, you notice that the clouds have risen and patches of open sky is visible. It is the perfect weather for scouting with planes, but you should have left Furious nad her little planes behind by now. And it isn't planes that suddenly sends a sharp message as the clock passes seven. It is hurried and not even coded:
"Considerable enemy force spotted. Estimated 10+ battleships and a large host of escorts."
The identity is given to be a British submarine and her position is right on top of yours. You have been spotted!
With great nervousness you pace the new bridge of Baden for hours and at 11.09, Schlick informs you that his forces has spotted a significant number of smokeplumes to the west, and is moving to investigate. He is intelligent enough not to say anything specific about you, and his message leaves the impression that he is merely reporting back to base of a potential target.
You assume that Lütjens and his ships have broken off to pursue their own goals, while Schlick investigates. It wouldn't do to have Betruger and her consorts discovered.

At 11.47 Schlick informs that the enemy ships have been identified as six battlecruisers and an estimated eight to twelve destroyers. Thus you assume he will retreat in face of these superior numbers. You are however surprised when he messages at 12.02 that his ships have engaged the front ship as the British charge in. The lack of information on the tactical situation has you bewildered. Is it a regular linebattle? Is it a chase? Or has he crossed their 'T'? You are tempted to ask him, but perhaps racing to his rescue would be better? You can't make up your mind, but you know for sure that it has become a critical situation.

What will you do?

1) The Battlecruisers.
A: Order Schlick to disengage at all costs, even a few ships.
B: Order him to withdraw in your direction, it might bag you a number of battlecruisers, or it might scare them off, both are good. But then the enemy will know where you are.
C: Come charging in with the Bayerns and Kaisers. That will at least scare off the British for now and it might not give off your intentions as bad.
D: Curse, swear and ramble about the foolishness, but do little else. And certainly not using the wireless.

2) The Operation.
A: The Strike Fleet is still near Dutch waters. Hide them among the islands until the danger has passed.
B: Send them towards home, that should save them from any interception, and you can always recall them when it is safe.
C: Combine the Strike and Battle Forces for safety.
D: Change nothing and sail on. The mission comes first.
E: Send to the outside and rear of you, instead of the nearly parallel courses you have now.

[Kagemusha]

So the moment of truth has come. Great chapter Kraxis sama!:bow:
I need to think about this very carefully, cant answer yet. But it seems we are expected and our assault is not a suprise to the British. Now what we need to decide is whether its more important to complete our mission or die trying.Which seems more likely or withdraw and realize that we have failed in our main objective.

[Stig]

1D, as I would hide the fleet (as far as that is possible) and engage on my own command not at the command of the British
2C, if it might come to an almighty clash atleast the German fleet can be strong enough to win it

[Rodion Romanovich]

1) The Battlecruisers.
C: Come charging in with the Bayerns and Kaisers. That will at least scare off the British for now and it might not give off your intentions as bad

If we strike them and they stay in battle for a while, we can inflict heavy losses on a small British fleet. This could be important later this day. If we lose, it means they sent in a very large force, but then we'll at least damage it a lot, and this might make them retreat a considerable force for repairs, unless they know we're planning a crucial operation... The hiding of the operation then becomes crucial...

2) The Operation.
...so i suppose I have to choose A (can we trust Dutch people who spot the force not to report it to the British? perhaps not...), or E (but I'm not sure what E means exactly, could we get a map?), or possibly D (I'll decide later).

First I'm wondering what the others think about estimating the strength of British forces in the channel. Could the strike force survive the possible engagements against the likely opposition to be met there? If yes, I'd choose 2D, and perhaps the battle force would act diversionary enough by engaging as in 1C and then retreating home (whether victorious or defeated, but if victorious we could carry out a short 1-3 hour pursuit just to make the diversion look more realistic), making it look like we attempted a raid but thought twice and chose to withdraw in the face of the British opposition (the British then perhaps won't react until the ports have come under attack). Then when we expect the strike force to be retreating we sail out with the battle force again to escort the survivors back the last part of the way home - trying to destroy any British interception operations.

[discovery1]

1 C) Charge in with our best. If we can ko this strong British force it will improve our situation considerably.

2) hmm this is tough. Can we get a map of the situation?

I would think that the strength of british forces in the Channel is relatively weak. Almost all of their heavy forces would be out in the north sea. I would think that the strongest ship we would encounter is a cruiser, unless of course British ships beat us into the Channel.

[Kraxis]

I guess a map would help...

https://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6002/engagementdl2.png

Of course you can't trust the Dutch, or rather you can't trust them all to not care. But that is just something you need to consider, and of coruse how fast can the spies inform the British?

[AggonyDuck]

We can assume that we were already spotted when we left the Bight. Notice that the British battlecruiser force was on its way to intercept us before, the rest of our fleet was reported about. This means that in fact the British knew that we are out on an operation. They might lack exact knowledge about our whereabouts, but they can be sure that most of the fleet is out.

If they got reports of the operation immediately, then we can safely assume that the Grand Fleet is perhaps an hour or two away from the battlecruisers. This means that the Grand Fleet is at most three hours away from our main Battle Force.

Several questions need to be answered though; what is our current situation and exactly which battleships do we have with us?

But at the moment to me its clear that the operation will not succeed, we've not even entered the English Channel and already we have the Grand Fleet chasing us. By the time we reach the Channel we will most likely be fully engaged with British forces, so good luck in trying to bombard ports while being engaged in combat. Even worse I don't think we will manage to land the infantry, because the Strike Force is even slower than our dreadnoughts and we have a massive fleet in our rear by the time we reach the Channel.

So what should we do? Continuing with the operation is the greatest folly we can do, we'd have a great chance of doing nothing and losing everything. We'd give the Royal Navy the decisive victory that they have been missing for the whole of the Great War. Our main priority should be to preserve the lives of our sailors and our accompanying infantry. The second priority should be to do as much harm as possible to the British forces.

So how do we act according to these priorities?

Firstly we need to increase the distance between the British battlecruiser squadron and the Grand Fleet. The more isolated the British battlecruisers are, the better for us. The way to do is to have our Scouting force head towards us and concentrate our force and head back home. Our dreadnoughts have rather similar speeds, so the Grand Fleet will have a hard time catching our concentrated force if we get a good headstart.

The strike force again is slower, so I don't like the idea of having it as a burden later on in the fighting. The best option in my opinion would be to send the Strike Force to hide in the Dutch islands. They're relatively safe there and if a British force does come after them, then we can atleast keep the casualties low among the infantry.

So my votes are:

1B: Have the battlecruisers head towards your mainforce. Overall the battlecruiser squadrons are fairly equal, because the British have only 6 battlecruisers against our five. The real threat at the moment is the Grand Fleet and we need to keep a good distance between us and the Grand Fleet. After the Scouting Force has rendezvoused with our Main Force we should head for Germany. This should keep our fleet safe and at a fair distance from the Grand Fleet. Depending on how the situation looks, we might be able to turn back towards the English Channel during the night and proceed with the operation. We might still have a chance to pull off the operation if we manage to use audacious maneuvers during the cover of night.

2A: Have the Strike Force hide in Dutch waters. It is relatively safe there and their absence allows us to keep an equal speed with the British during the maneuvers that will take place during this day and the night. If we need the Strike Force, then it's in a position to resume operations if needed.

[discovery1]

We can assume that we were already spotted when we left the Bight. Notice that the British battlecruiser force was on its way to intercept us before, the rest of our fleet was reported about. This means that in fact the British knew that we are out on an operation. They might lack exact knowledge about our whereabouts, but they can be sure that most of the fleet is out.

We don't know that they sent them knowing that we had left port. But what we do know is that they have every reason to think that we will try something in the channel very soon. For all we know these ships could just be repositioning to protect the Channel.

How common was it for such a force of battle crusiers to be deployed independently and not as the strong eyes of a larger force?

[Kraxis]

You have four battlecruisers... Not five. Moltke is still out with repairs.
Derfflinger (Division Leader)
Hindenburg (structurally weakened)
Seydlitz
Von der Tann



Of Dreadnoughts you have thirteen.
Baden (Fleet HQ)
Bayern (one turret down in the rear, structurally weakened)
Grosser Kurfürst (one turret down in the rear)
Kronprinz Wilhelm (central turret out, rangefinding limited)
Kaiser
Kaiserin
König Albert
Fredrich der Grosse
Thüringen
Nassau
Posen
Rheinland
Westfalen (weakened engines, might fail under severe pressure)

The Battle of Dogger Bank ensued between battlecruisers alone with no battleships near, or even ready to act.

[AggonyDuck]

Usually sighting the British battlecruisers meant that the Grand Fleet was perhaps an hour or two away at most. I believe this is the case now too. Think about this; we're being intercepted off the Dutch coast. What is a battlecruiser squadron doing there independently, especially if there is a great risk that the High Seas Fleet is sallying out?

The Brits are smart enough to not use the battlecruisers without the Grand Fleet being close by to support them. Atleast the weather is clear so we should be able to use our Zeppelins for reconnaissance and determine what we're exactly up against.

[King Kurt]

The battlecruisers were always the rapid reaction force - so these could have been the forces engaging our troops in Kent. Also there was the ship on the dogger bank being repaired, they could be covering that.
I believe we should press on - if we run back to port, we will loose all support of the Kaiser and we will not make an impact in support of the offensive. Our fleet should protect the strike force with an emphasis on keeping the strike force secret.
I do not see the point in a general fleet engagement it does not serve our purpose, nor do I see the point of running - let us grit our teeth and press on - we have u-boat support at last, all be it as extra pairs of eyes. Finally, let us get some Zeps in the North Sea to scout for what is about.
This is the Grand Fleet's last hurrah - the alternative is to rot in port and scuttle our ships in Scarpa Flow in a year's time - we should crash on and inflict maximum damage even at the expense of loosing a large part of the fleet, there is no alternative.:2thumbsup:

[Rodion Romanovich]

ok I'll stick to 1C, but for option 2 I now choose option D. What should happen after the 1C clash I haven't decided, but the choice stands between continuing to act diversionary, or pressing on with the operation, sending the battle force with them. I think I prefer sending the battle force with them slightly over the other idea, because the chances of pulling off the other plan is quite small. Aborting the operation as a whole is still out of the question for the reasons King Kurt mentioned.

[Franconicus]

1D) 2D)
Go on!

[AggonyDuck]

Well you better hope that I am wrong in believing that the Royal Navy is only hours away. We've yet to enter the English Channel and our Strike Force has a maximum speed of about 18 knots. By comparison the Grand Fleet has a maximum speed of 20 knots. Thus it is possible that we will have the Grand Fleet upon us once we've entered the English Channel. In that case the chances of a successful operation drop considerably and the Royal Navy will get the decisive victory that they are looking for.

Personally I prefer rotting in port over losing thousands of sailors in an operation that has failed to achieve the surprise critical for its success. We need to surprise the Brits if we want to pull this off and charging like a madman down in the Channel isn't the best way to achieve it.

Anyway it looks like you choose to proceed with the operation. I just hope that there actually is no Grand Fleet close by, but something tells me that it isn't the case. Either way good luck, you will need it.

[discovery1]

Personally I prefer rotting in port over losing thousands of sailors in an operation that has failed to achieve the surprise critical for its success. We need to surprise the Brits if we want to pull this off and charging like a madman down in the Channel isn't the best way to achieve it.


I very much doubt we could possibly catch the English by surprise, at least with them knowing that we will have an offensive aimed at the channel ports soon. They would have to know that we would launch something at the channel and soon. Indeed, we should push foward now because if they aren't based closer to the channel then Scappa now they will be very soon. Course when they do it is very possible that they would be force to spread out.

vote 2D. Foward. If we turn back now we throw away any chance of success, me thinks.

[Flavius Clemens]

1 C.
Two things we have to avoid - a full fleet to fleet engagement where the RN's numbers beat us, and fighting a series of division to division engagements where the RN are again likely to outnumber us in each case as they do in the current battlecruiser engagement. So charge in now to take out as many of the BCs as we can to swing odds in our favour. If the RN do turn out to have reinforcements on the way, it will probably then be time to apply 'he who fights and runs away lives to fight another day'.
2A
Agree with Aggony Duck on this one.

[Ludens]

1D) We don't know what is happening to Slick. It seems unlikely to me that he has engaged the Brits on their terms, so perhaps the situation isn't critical. Whatever it is, the mission comes first. Here we either win the war, or go down in a blaze of glory. Well, a blaze anyway. Whatever chance we had at suprise was blown when the British sub spotted us.

2D) Because I am not quite sure of what 2E would do.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

1) D, even if the situation is critical we don't really need the fleet if we can succeed with this operation and win the war. Also it does not seem like the situation is likely to be critical, and if he has charged in to fight them, with their superior numbers, he must feel confident he can defeat them due to some other condition that we don't know about.

2) D

EDIT: Temporary laziness gone.

[Kraxis]

About 2E

Currently the Strike Force is sailing pretty much to your port side, a little back.
This order will send it to the rear of you, some distance to starboard.

Given that the Battle Force was the one that wa spotted, it seems like that the British will know it. And being relatively closeby the Strike Force could be spotted in time. Being to the rear would perhaps save them from that while still maintaining an advance towards the goal (while hiding among the islands would invariably slow it down).

The Strike Force can only just maintain 15 knots due to the two merchant raiders. The Battle Force can however max out at 21 knots (though with serious risks to Westfalen)

[discovery1]

Hmmm, thanks Kraxis.

I change my vote to 2E

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Eh, that does sound a bit better...I guess I'll change my vote to 2E as well.

[AntiochusIII]

1C, 2E. And scout the hell out of the Seas. We must know where the British are.

I want my cake and eat it too. This is big, big risk, but, while I'm not advocating a Jutland duel with the Royal Navy, it's not good to turn tail yet either.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I think 1C is important because if we don't get any early victory now when we can isolate a smaller enemy force, we'll probably be in big trouble when, and I say when and not if, the British try to trap us in the Channel on our return, or try to attack us before we reach the raid targets. Since our battle force is faster than the strike force, letting the strike force sail on for a while, while temporarily sending off the battle force to win us an important victory before again going back closer to the strike force is IMO not a very risky thing to do, but probably of huge importance for the operation to have a chance of succeeding.

[Kommodus]

1. B

This is a difficult choice. What did Schlick do to get engaged? Did he try to withdraw but get caught by a faster enemy, or did he deliberately decide to fight?

Option A attempts to preserve the secrecy of our operation at the cost of some ships. However, I'm not sure what secrecy we have left, since the Battle Force was spotted by the submarine. Only the Strike Force remains hidden. Besides, if Schlick simply attempts to disengage, he may get chased around by the British battlecruisers all day, rendering him useless to us. I don't see much hope in him completely disengaging. So this option is out.

Option B, as stated, could win us a small tactical victory, but gives away our whereabouts. I'm really not sure what the British will learn that they don't know already, though - as has been said, the Battle Force has already been spotted, so the British will know its position and velocity.

Option C has the Battle Force moving to the aid of Schlick. I'm uncomfortable with this, as the Grand Fleet is probably also moving in the direction of the engagement. Assuming we've lost most of the surprise-element, I'd like to try to keep as much distance between us and the Grand Fleet as possible.

Option D, while tempting, is a no-go. Thus I'm going with B.

2. E

Once again, we have a balance to preserve. I don't think they'll be much safer with the Battle Force; in fact, they may be less so. Simply sailing straight on leaves them with the greatest risk of detection, and sailing back toward home means it'll take them longer to get back and do their part in the mission.

With respect to AggonyDuck, we really can't turn back now - if we do so the war is lost and this Interactive History ends in defeat. Kraxis wouldn't keep it going if we had no chance. Yes, our odds our slim - they always were - but we have to try something. A "fool's hope" is better than no hope at all.

[Kraxis]

You don't know what happened to Schlick's force and why they are engaged. He could have tried to disengage, but was overtaken by the faster British ships, or he could have been reckless and attacked them if he found the position favourable (such as crossing their 'T').

1A doesn't have to mean the loss of battlecruisers (though it can of course). A regular commander would cover his retreat by launching a torpedoattack with the torpedoboats and light cruisers.

1C doesn't mean the entire Battle Force. Only six battleships in fact, the fastest six (and an escort of course). The rest will remain in position relative to the Strike Force.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I think 1C is important because if we don't get any early victory now when we can isolate a smaller enemy force, we'll probably be in big trouble when, and I say when and not if, the British try to trap us in the Channel on our return, or try to attack us before we reach the raid targets. Since our battle force is faster than the strike force, letting the strike force sail on for a while, while temporarily sending off the battle force to win us an important victory before again going back closer to the strike force is IMO not a very risky thing to do, but probably of huge importance for the operation to have a chance of succeeding.


There are no guarantees in war, thinking that running off to fight this enemy force will leave us plenty of time, and ammunition for the real job at hand is very optimistic to say the least. More likely we will engage the enemy, fight for a while with an advantage, and then the British will get more ships to the scene and even if we win we will come outof the battle too low on ammunition, or too badly damaged to effectively pursue our objectives.

[Kraxis]

Vaccilating

You feel an urge to rush off to help Schlick with whatever problems he is facing, and the urge is almost unbearable. But you find strength inside yourself to face this ungodly sensation in your stomach.
No, you have to sacrifice whatever needs sacrificing for the sake ofthe operation. The British musn't know what is going on.
However, you can't help thinking what the British might know and what they would use that knowledge for.

Well, such thoguhts will have to wait a bit. You order one of the signal officers to order Cöln to race to the Strike Force and give them new instructions, to lie to the rear of your a little distance off to starboard instead of port.
You watch as the sleek light cruiser breaks off and puts up steam for an impressive 30 knots. Sheshould be able to carry out her order in a few hours.

As the minutes ticks by you think back on previous engagements. Each time has seen a vicious engagement, before you retreated back to the safety of the Bight. You wonder if the British have in fact expected that and sent their main force towards your home ports? After all, you know that they have spotted your Battle Force and the Scouting Division, but not the Strike Force. You would consider this a regular strike out to sea, hoping to catch a limited force in the open and alone. Yes, the British must be gunning for the Bight at this very moment. But what of the battlecruisers? You suddenly realize that the battlecruisers are fast, the British battlecruisers are a little bit faster than yours, and it could be that they expect them to be able to escape any ambush, and while they flee the main fleet positions itself so you will be caught on the way from a fruitless chase. Brilliant! But that still leaves your poor battlecruisers facing overwhelming odds.

At 12:49 Slick sends a message.
Enemy overwhelmingly powerful. Von der Tann without weapons and listing heavily, Seydlitz on fire, Hindenburg sprouting more smoke than usual. Two enemy ships on fire, one has broken off. Requesting assistance, we can't escape. Enemy has small destroyer squadron approaching from the north, will launch torpedoattack with the light cruisers while laying smoke.
For the Fatherland.

That sinking feeling in the stomach just got immeasurably worse, and you feel the eyes of the dead sailor on your neck. You turn around with an angry growl, staring right in the face of a young ensign, who visibly shrinks away from you. But you also seemed to notice something moving away behind him... You shake your head to clear your thoughts once more, but the sinking feeling does not go away.
You walk to the bridgewing, but at once you find that it was a mistake. Out there you can hear the soft rumble of guns in the distance, too far away to be seen.
Stossburg comes up from behind. "Herr Admiral. I doubt that Schlick and his force will be seen by Germany again. He sounded pretty desperate in the last message."
You sigh... You feel the rising of your temper, but for som reason it never boils over and you just feel hollow instead. "Yes... But there is nothing I can do without jeopardizing the mission."
"How so? The British already knows we are here... in force! Their battlecruisers would run in face of our battleships, we might even punish them a bit."
"And let them be able to shadow us? Letting them figure out our objectives? Right now their main force must be heading for the Bight to cut us off. We need to let them assume they are right."
"We could do that just as well w by saving the battlecruisers."
"Do not question my orders or I will have you locked in the brig!!!"
"Yes, Herr Admiral." Despite the acknowledgement of your authority his eyes betray his emotions, and while the bridgecrew around you doesn't even mutter a single comment or even face you, you can feel their disappointement.
The feeling is horrible and you retire to your cabin for the rest of the day to get some disturbing sleep. This time the dead sailor says nothing, but he follows you around in your dreams, never letting his eyes stare on anything but you.

At quater past five in the late afternoon you are awoken by your servant, claiming that the bridgecrew has spotted smoke to the north, coming closer fast.
You are thankful for something to stop the dreams and you rush to the bridge. And rightly you do spot a small selection of plumes to the north. Your mind races. Who can it be? It has to be the British battlecruisers.
"Order the guncrews to stand ready for action! We might have to chase them off."
And so your little deception fails. The British battlecruisers have found you eventhough you sacrificed your own. Well, at least only three large plumes are visible, so Schlick must have given them a good kick in the nuts before he went under. He was a brave man, and until the last he kept the operation a secret, no last messages of fury and disillusion, no cursing you for letting his ships die. He was a professional through and through.

The ships get nearer and nearer, speeding at you at around 25 knots. And in the fading light the ships are completely invisible and the range is basically not determinable, yet you get ready for combat. Perhaps they haven't spotted you? At 15 knots the smokeplumes are actually quite small, making it possible that you have remained unseen... Nah! Such a large fleet must be visible! However the British battlecruisers keep coming. They could as easily keep an eye on you from afar as in close, and without the danger. What is going on?
Finally the spotters can make out the hulls and a distance calculated, just a little more than 8 nautical miles, well within range of most of the guns of the big ships. You are about to order the guns to commence firing when the leading ship begins to flash a message.

"Its our code!" One of the signal officers yells out. "W-E A-R-E T-H-E S-C-O-U-T-I-N-G D-I-V-I-S-I-O-N... We are the Scouting Division! They have survived!"
You are confused, and yet relieved. What has happened for them to survive? You compose yourself. "Ask them what has happened! Quickly!"

As the remains of the Scouting Division comes closer you learn of the battle they had with the British battlecruisers.
At first contact Lütjens broke off from the main group to escape. Seeking a northerly route to get around the British, as he assumed the German ships would turn around and run. So a southern route would not get him out of harms way completely.
Schlick felt confident as at first the British seemed to have only four ships. So he closed as well. When it became apparent that there were six battlecruisers, he tried to run, but when the first shells began to fall, he turned around and presented the British with a line of ships. They pounded the first British ship badly and it fell out of line, but stayed in the battle. By then the British had turned too and a sluggingmatch ensued. Because of the damages to Von der Tann while running and turning she was already severely weakened, so technically it was less than 3 and half battlecruisers versus 5. The last two British ships concentrated on Von der Tann while the others went on to trade blows with their opposite number in the German line. Eventually poor Von der Tann was so heavily damaged that the second last British ship began concentrating on Seydlitz and she began to suffer heavily at that. Hindenburg suffered a range of hits to her superstructure and got some internal fires, but she gave better than she got and her opposite number, presumed to be Tiger, suffered serious fires in quite a few places and her firing stopped being accurate.
However the British were slowly crawling up the German line, beating the Germans one by one.
Right then a destroyer squadron approached from the north, and Schlick gave the order to lay down smoke and have the light cruisers press home a torpedoattack. The four ships laid down smoke and charged in. The British knowing full and well what was coming combed into the torpedoes and mananged to sink Magdeburg as she turned to flee. Von der Tann was by then dead in the water and got torpedoed by British destroyers.
Surprisingly the destroyers from the north launched a torpedoattack on the British unnoticed. The results were catastrophic in that the first British battlecruiser was hit three times and began to roll almost at once, a destroyer broke in half and another battlecruiser suffered two hits. At this the British formation broke down and all chances of a chase were lost.
Lütjens had noticed the uneven battle from afar and came to the aid at the right time. The British, engulfed in the destruction of a significant force had barely acknowledged his little group. The destroyers that were supposed to have challenged him were busy fending off the light cruisers and torpedoing Von der Tann

The loss of a battlecruiser and one of the most modern light cruiser in the world is a heavy blow, but escaping from such a battle and managing to sink an enemy battlecruiser and two destroyers (one of the torpedoes from the light cruisers struck a destroyer which was then sunk by 6 inch shells).
But Seydlitz is barely able to fight anymore with two turrets out and all rangefinders lost, and both Hindenburg and Derfflinger have suffered numerous hits. And disturbingly the British battlecruisers have gotten significantly better at accuracy. They quickly gained the range and held it throughout the battle. However their commander was clearly not very capable and managed to botch each attempt at maneuvering. When they combed the light cruisers' torpedoes two of the battlecruisers nearly collided, and incidentally they were the two big ships to be struck by Lütjens' torpedoes.

As the night falls you pass the last of the Friesian islands and the safety of their shadow. You can see in on land the lights of the houses, a nation at peace.
No doubt the British are searching for you, but you hope they are looking to the east, expecting to catch the limping battlecruisers perhaps. Because Seydlitz is in such a bad state you send her back to the Strike Force to act as a bombardmentship as well, basically that is her only capability now.
During the night a report from one of the U-Boats informs you that the British battlecruisers, down to three are still out looking for you, but to the east. However no sign of any main force has been spotted.
Also, to make sure you don't get too far ahead you slow down to 13 knots for the night, and when light breaks you are just off The Hague. That leaves you pretty much on schedule for a nightly infantrystrike at Bolougne and getting into place off the ports.

But you wonder if perhaps it would be worth it to race ahead with the Battle Force (now containing the remains of the Scouting Division). Or perhaps staying even closer with the Strike Force would be preferential. With no sign of any British main force and the lack of scouts you feel naked and blind.

You ordered the zeppeliners to launch today when you left port. So perhaps they will see something later. But their missions will take them over the more northern parts, not really close to you.

Seydlitz suffered quite badly in the battle, and her casualties have been transferred to Wolf II to get proper medical treatment and better places to rest. But perhaps she can do with getting out of the coming fight?

What will you do?

1) The Battle Force.
A: Race ahead at top speed to catch any British squadron in the mouth of the Channel, and to put distance to the Strike Force in case of contact. It could still be mistaken for a simple raid.
B: Stay at the same distance, about an hour at 15 knots apart.
C: Get closer together. You are getting closer to more patrolled waters. The closer you are the less likely you are to be noticed. However if noticed the entire fleet will be known to be out.

2) Seydlitz.
A: Put her in at Zeebrügge. The port has the capabilties to repair her, though not docks large enough. Also the casualties from the battlecruiser will be unloaded there.
B: Let her stay with the fleet.

3) Route.
A: Hug the coast. By doing this you lessen the chances of discovery at day by the British. But spies might spot the fleet and inform the British. However, how fast will such info travel?
B: Stay far enough off the coast to be unrecognizeable. There you are pretty safe from casual eyes, but trained individuals might just identify you by rule of elimination.*
C: Sail in the dark waters. There you suffer no risk from land of course, but the British have submarines, fishermen and all kinds of other stuff out to sea.

* In any case, when you get to Pas de Calais you have little option but to sail in the middle. Visible to both sides, but not enough to make a fuss with either. And who other than the British can put such a large fleet out in the Channel?

[Franconicus]

1) The Battle Force.
B: Stay at the same distance, about an hour at 15 knots apart.


2) Seydlitz.
A: Put her in at Zeebrügge. The port has the capabilties to repair her, though not docks large enough. Also the casualties from the battlecruiser will be unloaded there.

3) Route.
B: Stay far enough off the coast to be unrecognizeable. There you are pretty safe from casual eyes, but trained individuals might just identify you by rule of elimination.*

[King Kurt]

I agree with Franc - steady as she goes. It looks like we have slipped past the British and they are looking for us in the Bight. Ironically our "bloody their nose then run for home strategy" has put them in this mind set.
However, there is a small problem for the future - how do we get back home??
To start the debate on this could I suggest some ideas -
1)We could leave the slower boats to hug the coast and put into Zeebrugge.
2) We could despatch some forces to raid South Coast of England ports - say Dover or Folkstone - this would pull the fleet towards those ships and we could slip back along the Belgium coast, ideally under the cover of darkness.
3) We could go for broke and scuttle the fleet in a key channel - say the Solent or the Thames.
4) We could attempt to break through the British Fleet - but our ammo will be low
5) We could scatter and instruct all ships to return at best speed - slow boats to Zeebrugge, faster to the Bight. This is a bit PQ17 but a multitude of targets will mean that some ships will get through.
Something to chew over during the weekend.:2thumbsup:

[discovery1]

Lujtens you saved the battle cruisers you magnificent illegitimit son! Iron cross for him when we get back.

1 B) Steady. We don't want to split our force, nor do we want to give it all to the british if caught.

2 A) Have her stay with the fleet. We could use the ship as a bombardment vessel. Definitely have her put in at Z on the way back though.

3) Hmmm. How shallow would the water be at B? If its deep enough for subs to remain unnoticed then I would perfer A.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Nice chapter! I agree with the others:
1B
2A
3B

[Kraxis]

Subs can dive in the coastal waters, but since it is still very shallow they would prefer not to. Also, the trafic seems to be rather light that close in.

So a submarine can certainly hide there, but with risks to herself and it is hardly a good huntingground.

[Stig]

I'd say BAB too, go steady ahead, and possibly let the Brits make the move, there's little you can do now I'd say

[Kommodus]

Um, guys, 2A is the option to have the Seydlitz enter port, not the one that keeps her with the fleet.

Also, it's plain that we picked a bad option last turn. We were extremely lucky not to lose the entire scouting force, but things have turned out bad enough. Due to the damage suffered, we have no effective scouting force, and are blind. To my shame I admit I chose the wrong option as well: I wanted the scouting force to retreat in our direction, when clearly we should have gone to the rescue with some of our battleships.

Anyway, regarding the current situation, I choose:

1. A

The hope of the Strike Force rests in secrecy, not protection. If the Grand Fleet comes down on us, the Battle Force won't even be able to properly protect itself. We should try one last trick here to fool the British.

However, I do remember that we have a battleship that has some engine problems. However fast we go, it shouldn't be so fast that it risks damage to this battleship's engines.

2. B

In real life I might've gone with A, but since this is surely the last operation of this Interactive History, I say we use everything we've got. If the Seydlitz retreats now it'll be out of the action permanently.

3. B

This option seems to incur the least risk of being spotted.

[Kagemusha]

Great Chapter!
My answers:

1) The Battle Force.
B: Stay at the same distance, about an hour at 15 knots apart.

2) Seydlitz.
B: Let her stay with the fleet.

3) Route.
B: Stay far enough off the coast to be unrecognizeable. There you are pretty safe from casual eyes, but trained individuals might just identify you by rule of elimination.*

I would keep Seydlitz with the fleet. Before this is over we will need every gun available.

[Stig]

Um, guys, 2A is the option to have the Seydlitz enter port, not the one that keeps her with the fleet.
Yeah I know that's what meant to happen, a heavely damaged ship will:
1. smoke alot, easy to see
2. slow us down

[discovery1]

Yeah I know that's what meant to happen, a heavely damaged ship will:
1. smoke alot, easy to see
2. slow us down

good point about the smoke, although we are going pretty slow as it is. How much smoke is S producing?

[Kraxis]

She isn't on fire at least. But her smokestack was punctured, and the smoke from her engiens leaves her at a steady and widening plume.

Her engines are fine as it is, but she has suffered some flooding and is listing to starboard. This list was only developed during the flight from the battle.

[discovery1]

Ah, thanks.

I vote

1) Don't change anything, its not like the british need to know what direction we are heading any sooner then is absolutely necessary.

2) Have S put into Z

3) Just far enough out to not be easily distinguished as German.

[Csargo]

Ah, thanks.

I vote

1) Don't change anything, its not like the british need to know what direction we are heading any sooner then is absolutely necessary.

2) Have S put into Z

3) Just far enough out to not be easily distinguished as German.

Same.

[AggonyDuck]

1) The Battle Force.
A: Race ahead at top speed to catch any British squadron in the mouth of the Channel, and to put distance to the Strike Force in case of contact. It could still be mistaken for a simple raid.

Might as well be aggressive if we're on a suicidal mission.

2) Seydlitz.
A: Put her in at Zeebrügge. The port has the capabilties to repair her, though not docks large enough. Also the casualties from the battlecruiser will be unloaded there.

I will not sacrifice the experienced crew of this great ship. Our battlecruisers are clearly our best ships at the moment and overall the Seydlitz will only hamper us in battle.

3) Route.
C: Sail in the dark waters. There you suffer no risk from land of course, but the British have submarines, fishermen and all kinds of other stuff out to sea.

Overall submarines are not that great at spotting and I don't think fishermen are that risky.


Kurt about getting through the Grand Fleet to the Heligoland Bight, how about we don't head for the Bight? How about we leave our slower and heavily damaged ships at Zeebrugge, and instead take our forces around Jutland through Skaggerak and Kattegat, then from there to Kiel.

[discovery1]

A: Race ahead at top speed to catch any British squadron in the mouth of the Channel, and to put distance to the Strike Force in case of contact. It could still be mistaken for a simple raid.

Might as well be aggressive if we're on a suicidal mission.

That seems like a bad idea. It would alert the British to our intentions while the strike force is still far away from the targets.

[AntiochusIII]

Like most, B.A.B.

I wouldn't risk slowing down the Battle Force, but rushing forward and showing yourself is not necessary either.

The surviving Battlecruiser has done enough. She'll be safer in the port; besides, the damaged, smoking ship isn't exactly an asset to an attacking force.

3 is the hardest choice. I opt for the Middle Ground just because...

Also, the commander ought to receive the highest honor of the entire German military for his bravery once we return to port. (No if's here!!! :P)

[Flavius Clemens]

1) B
Rushing in means we're spotted in the Channel sooner rather than later, giving the RN more time to respond in force. (I suspect even if the RN has sent a battleship force to the Blight they will have used their superior numbers to keep a fair sized force back home too.) On the other hand we have different targets, so bunching up slows down our attack.

2) A
Given Seydlitz' state she won't add much to our bombardment capability, but the smoke increases the risk of early detection, so better for her to make an honourable retreat. This might also be good for morale if it suggests we're not totally callous about the crews.

3) B
Sounds like the best option for avoiding detection as long as possible.

[Ludens]

1) B
2) A
3) B

[Uesugi Kenshin]

1)b
2)a
3)b

[Kraxis]

Wow... you are almost all in agreement.

Trust me, there are some interesting developments on the way.

[discovery1]

Wow... you are almost all in agreement.

Trust me, there are some interesting developments on the way.

The Home Fleet baring down on us?

Edit: Phoey

[AggonyDuck]

The Home Fleet baring down on us?

Edit: Phoey

Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. ~;)

[King Kurt]

Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. ~;)
Oh ye of little faith!!!

Of course, they could be trying a port raid of there own on our home base - now that would be a surprise for them - fight their way through the mines etc to find nothing there!!!:oops:

[Kraxis]

The Fog

As light breaks you are handed a complete list of damages to Seydlitz, it convinces you that she is not fot for anything more in this operation. Also, she has been taking on water, slowly but steadily. She might flounder if she stays.
But with Zeebrugge nearby, there is a haven for her. There she will recieve the most needed repairs, then rejoin the, hopefully, victorious fleet, as it returns to port. So you order her to put in at Zeebrugge and await the fleet.

Looking at the coast, only a few miles away, you come to the conclusion that it is a danger to the secrecy of the operation. You order the fleet out to darker waters. Meanwhile you put the pace back up to 15 knots, and after a few hours the coast is quite small, but not too far away. Around this time Seydlitz hoots a mournful farewell to the fleet, that responds in kind as a sign of respect for the injured warrior. You stand on the bridgewing watching the listing ship head for the coast, and you feel a tear forming in your eye. What happened to her and her consorts, is your fault. You feel that you could have saved them, instead it took the genius of a young commander to save them, and that is something that pains you.
As Seydlitz vanishes towards the coast you decide that Lütjens has deserved the Pour le Merit. You nod and retire to your cabin to write down the recomendation for the man. While you write you feel personally proud that you selected this loose cannon. His personal initiative has already payed off. Those torpedoes must also have been fired with supreme accuracy, another credit due to that man. He is impressive to say the least. Torpedoes... You think. Damn, he is out of the very torpedoes that are vital to the operation at Calais. Torpedoing the ships inside Calais was one of the most important aspects of the raid, now that is gone. You feel despair fall over you again, but before it can settle you remember Wolf II actually has torpedotubes herself. She might have enough torpedoes in her hold to supply Lütjens' little squadron. You run out of your cabin and order the signals officer on watch to inform Lütjens to head to the Strike Force for resupply. Resupplying small ships like the torpedoboats at sea is risky, but you feel it is worth the try.

Even before it is noon, you begin to feel the clouds have gotten lower, their denseness and the calm sea makes for an eerie feeling of being alone in the world. You looks around the bridge for comfort, and notice that you are not alone in this feeling. You step out ontp the bridgewing and look at the line of ships behind you, neatly arranged in a single line with the light cruisers and torpedoboats off to the sides.

As you look back on the ships you can litterally see the clouds settle over them, making one ship after another vanish from sight, until you can barely make out the bow of Bayern behind you. While this is most uncomfortable, since you can't use the horn, it is sort of a comfortable blanket, hiding you from the world, hiding you from prying eyes. This can very well mean that you can get to the Channel unseen, and your spirits rise again. But you are certain that Lütjens won't be able to find you in this peasoup, you just hope he stays with te Strike Force as long as the fog is this dense.
Around 13 in the afternoon the fog begins to clear, but it doesn't vanish, and you can still only see a short distance, making out Bayern and König behind you, but at least this makes collisions less likely to happen. However, the fog is certain to make a mess of the nice line of ships, the line likely resembles either an echelon or even a snake by now. And the little ships could be anywhere. You can only see a single light cruiser and a single torpedoboat from the bridge, though you can just make out several dark plumes to the sides, expecting them to be those ships.

The fog itself also muffles all sounds so the lonely feeling is increased many times over, but at the same time the silence is calming, as if the nature is still stronger than anything man has created, that it still has a beauty in the middle of a destructive war. You take a deep breath of the cool clean air, then you look at the smokestack, the smoke leaving it is a thick dense cloud, but it quickly dissipates in the fog, no doubt due to the lesser density caused by the slower speed.

As the time passes the fog stays around you, perhaps even getting denser again, very unusual, but a situation you like. Here you are safe, and you calculate that about now you should be nearing the frontlines on the coast. The games can begin.

Suddenly a spotter screams his lungs out: "SHIPS SPOTTED!!!"
Your heart skips a beat. "Where? Where dammit?!?!"
"SHIPS DUE WEST. THREE-FOUR OF THEM, COULD BE MORE. LARGE BY THE LOOKS OF THEM."
You feel your eyes open wide. It can only be British ships. You stare hard to the west, and can just make out some black disturbance in the fog. The smokeplumes of large ships.
"Can you tell how fast they are going?" You shout up to the spotter.
"The size of the plumes indicate at least 20 knots going almost directly at the coast."
"Distance?"
"Don't know Herr Admiral, but guessing from the visibility of the fog that they are no more than 3 nautical miles away. They are very close!"
You quickly calculate the speeds and arrive at the fact that the British ships cross in front of you. The only reason you haven't been spotted has to be the lower speed and thus smaller plumes, but it will only be a matter of time, as very short time!

What will you do?

There is only one choice this time, and because of the critical situation only those who post within THREE (3) hours of this chapter will get a choice. If noone posts in that time only the FIRST poster get a choice.
Complex maneuvers are quite dangerous in a fog and mistakes are much more likely, and each order has to be transferred from ship to ship, instead of being relayed from a light cruiser off to the side.

1: Order a halt of the fleet. You might just go unnoticed, but the little ships are not certain to get the order due to the fog. And the traveltime down the line can be considerable. Collisions are of course always a risk when halting a formation in a fog, and each ship halts in different distances, which is generally considerable. You might as well get spotted as you glide into view.

2: The distance is short, you are bound to be discovered no matter what. Charge in Nelson-style, cut their line. The distance can be covered in about 10-12 minutes. Given that it should take a few minutes for them to discover you and at least a minute to turn the turrets, you should have a very good chance of getting among them. If they are few you should easily crush them, and if they are many the confusion should be battlewinning.
However when you speed up, the distnace between each ship will certainly increase, but you risk nothing from mistakes and collisions.

3: Order a Gefechtkerwendung (an about turn, starting at the rear of the formation, saved the High Seas Fleet twice at Jutland) and try to evade the British. However the fog means it will take time for the message to travel back to the last ship (Westfalen, with the unstable engines). Also the fog could result in collisions as each ship have a different turningradius, and again the little ships might get left out.

4: Give the order for a 16-point turn to starboard, parallel with the British, but in the opposite direction. The engagement should be short, and the chance of collisions should be low, however this time the risks for the little ships is considerably higher than the other orders as many more risk getting run over, as the line turns northwest.

[AggonyDuck]

2. We might as well surprise them and hopefully inflict terrible casuatlies in the fog. Seeing as nobody wanted to turn back, then we will fight. ~:)

[SwordsMaster]

Number 2. If Nelson taught us anything.... We might need to cancel the operation after this though, depending on the outcome, enemy strength, etc.

[Stig]

mmmm It will only be a matter of time before the spot us. So that means we can halt and back up, and we will stay invisible. However fog doesn't last forever, and as said we might glide into view.
If there are collisions, well so be it, imo. These things can happen and sometimes it's better to lose one ship through a collision then lose the entire fleet in a fight.
Also there might be more English, this might only be the flank of them.

The Nelsonic charge is out of the order, as it can get the entire fleet destroyed.
An ordering the fleet to halt might work, but you can always slide into view
Making an about-turn might work, but in that case I would rather opt for just halting.

I'll settle with the 16-point turn to starboard (4), it seems the best option to me.

[Rodion Romanovich]

2, even though Nelson had the advantage of guns on both sides while we are fighting in a time of rotating turrets. Might as well take the risk, since all other options too have risks AND this is the one that has the greatest possible gain. Especially it won't slow us down, and I believe slowing down will compromise the operation. Being able to hide seems unlikely to succeed, and since I only consider 1 and 2 viable options the unlikeliness of success in option 1 makes me settle for no. 2.

[AggonyDuck]

Also there is a good chance that by charging straight at the British, we manage to break up the formations of both sides. In a fog this can be catastrophal for both sides, due to the difficulties of identifying friend from foe. Also there is a big danger for collisions for the British if we manage to split their formation in two. Anyway a chaotic battle in fog will only work in our advantage, because there are most likely more of the British ships and thus they are more likely to collide and hit each other. :yes:

[Rodion Romanovich]

True, the two lines can't meet easily in the fog, plus the fog makes us able to get closer before the enemy starts shelling us, so the odds are probably after all at least as good as or better than for Nelson :2thumbsup:

[discovery1]

Vote: 2

If its a small force then we can take them. If it's the Home Fleet we have already lost.

Edit:
Where are we anyway?

[Kraxis]

You are off the frontlines in Belgium, perhaps a little distance onto the German side.

[Kagemusha]

Option 2.

[Flavius Clemens]

I guess I'm past the posting deadline by now, but 2 does seem to be the best option - I suspect any attempts at fancy maneouvers in the fog will just get us into a mess and give advantage to the British.

[Kraxis]

Well then, 2 it is.

I was actually half expecting you guys to attempt to pull a gefechtkertwendung.

[AggonyDuck]

Yeah, the decision we just made is quite the opposite to our prior goals. We will not help the offensive by doing this, but we might as well take advantage of a situation like this and hope that the chaotic battle goes our way.

Anyway it remains to be seen if the force we're facing is the Grand Fleet or not. Most likely it is, which would make our sudden charge somewhat suicidal, but atleast it will make for an epic ending. :)

[discovery1]

Thanks for the location.

What makes you say that Kraxis?

And how does your schedual look for the next few days?

[Stig]

mmm I thought too that option 2 was out of the question, and that I was already very "progressive" with my choice. But then I don't want the fleet destroyed.

btw did anyone say that these are warships, can't they just be steamliners used for troop transport, would be great fun.

[Kraxis]

What makes you say that Kraxis?
You guys have been somewhat timid after the great battle that was the sinking of three battleships. Trying to preserve the fleet as much as possible. Not that it has been wrong, it has worked so far, but this is a rather interesting turn-around.

But do not worry, I have all bases covered.

I expect the next installment to be up in a few days. Let's see, I have a new apartment to paint over the weekend (moving to a larger place with my GF). But I suppose that sunday evening is open.

[discovery1]

You guys have been somewhat timid after the great battle that was the sinking of three battleships. Trying to preserve the fleet as much as possible. Not that it has been wrong, it has worked so far, but this is a rather interesting turn-around.

But do not worry, I have all bases covered.

I expect the next installment to be up in a few days. Let's see, I have a new apartment to paint over the weekend (moving to a larger place with my GF). But I suppose that sunday evening is open.

Nah, now we are all in.

Congradulations on the move. Hope there are no accidents. A few days you say? Splendid, I was expecting a few weeks.

[Stig]

(moving to a larger place with my GF)
Will that mean that when playing BF2 we have less background noice from you? ~D

[King Kurt]

Is it typical - I check the forum reguarly all day, every day while I am at work - about 10 minutes after I check near the end of the day, Kraxis posts the next episode with a 3 hour deadline!!!!!!

I would have probably gone for the same thing - we have an advantage in that we see them, they don't see us and we at a range where we will hit first and fast. Ordinarily I would suggest avoidance - the raid is still the main aim of the action, but these ships would mean the end of the raid, so we must destroy them - if there are more well then it is down to a slugging match which we will either win Phyrricaly or lose gallantly - but if there are more then that was the end of the raid as well. A battleturn away is out of the question in these waters and conditions, so it has to be death or glory.

Finally Kraxis, I was slightly confused with your news about your new appartment - in my family GF was always grandfather. After a couple of minutes admiring your support of older citizens, I realised that GF was your girlfriend!! So have a good wekend decorating and don't forget for a good finish you need to let the paint dry nicely - just enough time to pen another episode!!!:2thumbsup:

[Kraxis]

That is no problem, the place already has the colour we prefer, now we just need to add another layer. So it isn't as if we need to first give it a base paint of white or something. It should cover just well.

Stig, you insufferable gamer!:yes:

[Stig]

Stig, you insufferable gamer!
Well I don't know what it was, but the TV was on pretty loud I think 2 weeks ago.

[Kraxis]

Yeah... The TV is less than 2 meteres away, while the sofa is at least 3 meters away. At teh new place there should be a wall between the PC and the TV (but still an open door). But then again I has TS too sensitive as others commented on feedback.

But enuogh of that, this is about IH.

[King Kurt]

Yeah... The TV is less than 2 meteres away, while the sofa is at least 3 meters away. At teh new place there should be a wall between the PC and the TV (but still an open door). But then again I has TS too sensitive as others commented on feedback.

But enuogh of that, this is about IH.
Shame, I thought we could have a debate about interior decoration and soft furnishing!!:laugh4:

[Flavius Clemens]

So does the appartment get painted battleship grey or do you manage to keep a safe distinction between this and real life?

I suspect that the force we've encountered is a repeat of the earlier RN shelling of our troops in an effort to hold up the ground advance. So we'll probably outnumber them, and the main downside is that they will now know our whereabouts, but I'm pretty sure that would have happened whatever we did, as manoevering in the fog would have gone wrong.

[Kraxis]

So does the appartment get painted battleship grey or do you manage to keep a safe distinction between this and real life?
Heh... Not really, but it is going to be a sort of light khaki. That was used by certain smaller ships in the Med. and the Pacific.

[Kraxis]

Finished painting today...

So obviously there wasn't time for a chapter.

[Kagemusha]

Hopefully there will be soon.:smash:

[Kraxis]

The End

You stare at the dark shadows for a few seconds, then you turn to Stossburg. "What do you think?"
"I believe we can manage a turn and not get spotted, if we do it now."
You frown as you think. "No... Even if we manage to give them the slip now, they will be back in time for intercepting the Strike Force. If it is the Grand Fleet, then it will be a slaughter and if it is only three-four dreadnoughts they will do horrible damage to our undermanned old ships. No, we have to charge! If Nelson has taught us anything it is to sieze the moment."
Stossburg nods and turns to give the orders while you rush to the signals officer.
"Give the order that all the ships are to come up to at least 20 knots, keep the bearing and be ready for a violent battle. Do not await response, just order them to do it. Hopefully we won't be strung out too much."
You turn back to Stossburg.
"Herr Admiral, the chief engineer says we will be up to speed in a short while. He expects that we will cross 23 knots, as until now he has spared the boilers, but now the engines can take it for a short while."
"Great! I just hope that Bayern can keep up with us. I wouldn't want to get there alone."
"Well, that is the problem eh? But I suspect Kapitän Rohardt will understand and bring her up to speed as well."
You bite your lip as you nod. "Now we wait for the British to spot us. I want the guns ready to pound the first ship that begins to turn her turrets. If we are lucky we might knock one of them out, giving us a few precious moments. But do not shoot before that happens, I don't want the surprise spoiled. Let the British try to inform the fleet themselves, it should prove hard and slow, giving us a chance to surprise them." You turn to your servant. "Oh, please get my gramophoneplayer and The Ride of the Valkyries. I want a fitting mood up here." Stossburg and most of the bridgecrew laughs.
As the ship under you reverberates with the increased revolutions of the engines, you stare ahead at the clearing shades of the enemy ships, expecting the spotters to yell that the enemy has noticed you, meanwhile the music plays and you feel strengthened. But the spotters do not yell, either they can't see it or the British are not terribly observant right now. You hope for the latter.
"Spotters can you see anything? Can you make out the turrets?"
From the tube a voice responds. "Not yet... The British ships aren't terribly clear. We will in a few minutes though."
"Inform us when you can. We will need the info badly."
"Jawohl Herr Admiral!"

The minutes tick by extremely slowly, and you are beside yourself with anticipation. By now you can make out the hulls of the British ships, not a lot but they are there. Your plume of smoke must be visible to them as well... But so far no calls from above. Then suddenly... "Second ship in the line has turning turrets! Bearing down on us!"
You jump at the voice and bellow. "Target second ship in the line! Fire at will!"
The next seconds as the turrets target the enemy ship are horrible. You feel the stare of the dead sailor on your neck and the dread in your gut rises to your head. You will it down again but it won't leave you entirely.

The first volley shakes you and the flames from the guns blinds you for a short second. You stare at the target and are treated to a series of flashes on it. A voice yells out. "Hits! We hit them with our first volley!"
"Spotters! Information!"
"Herr Admiral, it seems one of the turrets has stopped moving, the hits were all centered on the rear third of the target. The other turrets are still moving. Other ships are responding as well now."
Stossburg steps up to you. "Maybe we should present the rear guns with a chance to fire as well?"
"No, we risk a collision with Bayern. We must stay firm!"
The spotter once more calls down. "Herr Admiral, the British line seems to extend forever. There are at least ten battleships in view right now, and numerous small ships."
Apparently it is the Grand Fleet you have stumbled upon. You swallow the bitter taste in your mouth as the stare from behind grows to intolerable levels.
"Keep it up people!" You barely manage before the targeted ship fires from a lonely turret, then another and then a third. You tense in anticipation of hits, but you are surprised when none a registered, one overshoots and the other two fall short.
Right then your forward turrets belches fire once more and you are rewarded with another string of hits. Luck has so far been on your side, but to miss at this range is not right, something must be wrong with the British ship. Perhaps you knocked out the primary rangefinder?
But then you notice fire from the third ship. And this time luck isn't on your side and Baden is struck three times on the belt and the casemate. You don't know if any penetrated, but now the game is set.

From behind Bayern joins the fight and the British ships responds. The uneven fight continues and you are struck time and again, but tough as she is Baden pushes on as if nothing has happened, punishing the British ship. Since seh has her flank to you your shells hit while hers mainly straddle you, and in effect you hit each other equally if not with a small advantage for you. And as more ships speed up behind you, more guns join the fight, spreding out the British attention.
Finally you have gotten close enough, and the British moved along enough for the rear turrets to join in. This time however, you shift your attention to the fifth ship in the British line, a King George V class battleship. Her guns are fixed on another ship so you get an open shot at her. All eight guns strike home at her, with a tremendous impact. Her upper forward turret is mangled as it is hit by at least three hits, her forward superstructure, including the bridge is blown to bits and flames lick up from the barbette under the upper turret.
Meanwhile your secondary guns have been engaging light cruisers and destroyers, inflicting terrible damage on them. These light mill about in confusion, and now that the lines are getting entangled they are uncertain of whos who.

You order the onboard torpedoes to be launched, hoping that they will strike something, it is after all a target-rich environment.
As you pass through the British line your guns punish the KGV even more, joined by the secondary guns, sweeping the decks of the unfortunate battleship. However, she manages to give you a last response with her forward turret, striking turret Caesar's barbette, knocking it out of the action in a spectacular explosion. A few minutes later you Bayern and König are all through the British line, coming about for a regular shortrange linebattle. Baden is heavily damaged by now and she lists to starboard, but she still has three functional turrets.

You walk to the starboard bridsgewing to take in the battle. You are astounded by the confusion and destruction around you. A great plume of smoke marks the spot where a ship has just exploded, German or British, you don't know. The KGV you punished so severely is just floating on, sinking by her bow, two battleships are locked in collision and both sinking due to the massive damages they suffered in the ramming. Several other ships are burning, and the British line has been broken in several places, one particular Royal Sovereign class ship is being pounded from both ends by two German battleships. You own guns continue to fire, despite the increasing list.
Behind you the officer tasked with the response efforts speaks up. "We think we have contained the flooding, the engines are not at risk at the moment."
"Great! Will that keep our list to a minimum?"
"Don't know, we haven't been to all the areas, so we can't say for sure, but it should stabilize."
He leaves again to rejoin his teams, meanwhile you look at the confusing battle. And it strikes you that the visiblity has increased. Apparently the fog is finally lifting. You look to the head of the British line and watch the first three British ships sail on, only the third ship turning to port to reengage. Apparently the British have lost some measure of command. But soon the three ships more or less vanishes in the lifting fog. You turn back to the main battle and watch as an old Colossus class battleship gives you are broadside. You barely manage to blink before the shells strike home...

When you come to again, you have no idea how long as gone by. You cann't hear anything, it is as if someone turned off the sound of the world. However you can feel the impacts of the British shells. But you can't feel your own guns firing. You shift your hazy sight onto the bridge and are stunned by the sight. Spread around the bridge lies the bodies of men you knew, the captain, Stossburg, the signalsofficer and the helm. Some are more complete than others, and you notice a stream of blood running in your direction. You try to get up, but both your arms and legs fail you, you can't move. You take a look down yourself and see your impreccable uniform torn and bloodied. Your chest oozes blood from numerous wounds and you blink as blood run into your eyes.
Slowly you realize that you are dying. Your breaths become shallower and faster each time. Suddenly the battle becomes a distant thing as you lie against the railing on the bridgewing, dying. With death approaching nothing becomes important and you feel detached, yet you feel horribly hurt inside, that you should lose this battle, you can basically hear the dead sailor railing against you and you feel a small tear forming in your eye. You have let down your men and your country.
As these thoughts go thourgh your slowing mind, you begin to feel wet around your lower body, rising fast. Suddenly the wetness engulfs you, and you understand what it is. Baden is going down. You float around on the surface for a few seconds, then the suck of the sinking ship drags you under. You see the surface above you, quickly vanishing, and the press of the water on you body is unbearable, but you can't move your body to get up. As your vision tunnels into darkness, the dead sailor and all the others aray in front of you, and he speaks: "Welcome brother, we have been awaiting you." Then darkness...


90 years later.
Email from one historian, in response to a query from another.

Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2008 17:22:06 +0100 (CET)
From: "Daniel Florentz" <df@hum.ku>
Subject: Re: About the Fog Battle
To: "Sune Bechmann" <becher@gmail.com>

Yes, I know very well how hard it is to find concrete information on this battle. It has hardly been worked on by historians other than myself. What you will usually find is an extremely general account of it, often incorrect.

What prompts you to ask me? Have your students begun asking unpleasant questions your couldn't answer? Haha... I know the feeling. But I'm happy to be of assistance. I could send you my sources, but since I'm about the only one who has them, I think I will just include a short account of the battle from what I have been able to find out.

As you know, since the battle was in effect just a long series of individual battles between single ships, it has been practically impossible to find a single thread to follow. Most of the accounts from the survivors have been limited to their own ship, which of course leaves a lot to be desired.
Anyway, Vice Admiral Latham had managed to secondguess Vice Admiral Schleizinger's intentions of going into the Channel, while he himself believed that his several small sorties would draw the British to the Bight as soon as they heard of the breakout.

Technically this should have left the British with a huge advantage, as they managed to bring eightteen battleships (in positional order: Marlborough, Benbow, Malaya, Ajax, Centurion, King George V, Warspite Flagship, Royal Oak, Revenge, Resolution, Emperor of India, Colossus, Hercules, Conqueror, Thunderer, St. Vincent, Collingwood and Ballerophon) and three battlecruisers (Lion, Renown and New Zealand, not in the line with the battleships) to the battle, opposing the German thirteen (Baden Flagship, Bayern, K&#246;nig, Grosser Kurf&#252;rst, Kronprinz Wilhelm, Kaiser, Kaiserin, K&#246;nig Albert, Fredrich der Grosse, Th&#252;ringen, Posen, Rheinland and Westfalen) and two (Hindenburg and Derfflinger, positioned between Fredrich der Grosse and Th&#252;ringen). However the fog that descended on the water that day undermined the superior British position, to the point that it was perhaps even unfavourable.
Since the Germans travelled slower and only presented their front, they were practically invisible to the British in the fog, but the British who were going at 20 knots sent massive plumes of thick smoke up, easily visible for the Germans.
When Schleizinger was informed of the presence of the British to his front, he supposedly mentioned Nelson and then ordered the fleet up to battlespeed, for a bullrush at the British line.
Baden held its fire long enough not to alert the British line, thus causing the first British ship to spot her to go through a lengthy alert to the other ships. This gave the Germans an advantage in getting pretty close, and yet they managed to get the first shot in.
Because of the surprise and speed with which the Germans charged, Baden managed not to get pulverized on the approach, in fact the first shots taken at her missed completely. She breached the British line between Ajax and Centurion, and her two point blank broadsides into Centurion, was enough to take her out of the battle completely as they ripped the entire frontal section, including the bridge and the turrets, up. Both Bayern and K&#246;nig passed through that same opening as well, but Grosser Kurf&#252;rst rammed into King George V and the resulting damages caused both to sink. Around the same time Ajax took a few hits to her forward belt, that apparently penetrated her armour, setting fire near the forward ammobunks, which then exploded sending her under the water in seconds.
By then both lines had dissolved a bit and both K&#246;nig Albert and Fredrich der Grosse broke the British line at the same time around Revenge, which then got several broadsides from both ships, effectively putting her out of the fight.

The British seemed to collect their wits and Malaya, third in the line and the first to spot the Germans, turned around to reengage, and Hercules gave the now severely damaged Baden a horrible broadside that destroyed her bridge, apparently killing Vice Admiral Schleizinger. Two destroyers took advantage of the obvious weakness of the German flagship and torpedoed her, causing her to sink with speed.

I have included the memoires of a young subaltern serving as a spotter on the bridge of Malaya:

"I was serving on the bridge on the very day of the battle, my task was to look for the boueys making the far end of our patrol towards the Belgian coast. While looking to the port, just for variation, I saw something dark out there. I then asked one of the dedicated spotters if he could see something to which he agreed. We watched it for a minute or so, until Captain Boyle came over and boomed at me. "What are you doing here?!?! You were supposed to look ahead for the boueys!"
"But sir, we have spotted something out of the ordinary directly to port."
The Captain snatched my binoculars and looked for a good twenty seconds, before lowering them again. When he did he began waving his arms around and yelling out orders. In particular th order for the guns to load first was to hurt us later.
I kept my eyes on the menacingly dark shape out there. It slowly began to form into something worse than I imagined, it was a huge German battleship only a short disntance away, and it's guns were pointed directly at us.
Almost as soon as our guns began to traverse to meet her, her guns opened up and struck us hard among out rear turrets, taking out the primary rangefinder. The gunners obviously got very distressed with this and as soon as their had pointed the guns in the right direction they fired. The results were that their shells missed the Hun altogether and she gave us another round of hits. When we bagan to strike her, we still didn't get many, as her slim profile gave our gunners little to work with. Then another Hun battleship joined in and before I knew it the first was among us and a third and fourth Hun battleship had appeared. We were taking constant hits by then... we were giving back a good deal ourselves, but it seemed we were doomed to be sunk. But suddenly the Huns ddin't care about us and they set about destroying the ships behind us.
For a while we kept sailing in the original direction, the lack of new orders made it hard forthe Captain to issue new ones. He kept pacing the bridge until I asked if we shouldn't turn back to reengage. Absentmindedly he gave the order, and we took a port turn in the hopes of getting to the rear of the Hun battlefleet.

When we thought we were about to reach it we found that there were more of them than we had expected. And we took a savaging from two battleships, knocking out both our frontal turrets and causing horrendous losses belowdeck. The damages were heavy and the Captain considered abandoning teh ship for a while, but then the Huns lost interest again, and we managed to sneak away.

We were busily trying to plug the leaks and put out the fires, so none of us were aware of how the main battle ended. We had taken almost impossible losses in the battle ourselves and wouldn't have been worth anything there. We finally beached the beaten girl on a sandbank off Nieuport, where I could finally see the carnage below when I helped carry the wounded from the ship. At that point I didn't know it, but in time more than 200 of my shipmates would be put to rest and another 110 would survive their wounds. Such terrible losses I have never heard of on a surviving ship with a compliment of around 900.
The faces of the burnvictims still haunt me at night, when their hoarse screams and wild eyes disrupts my every dream."

The ships Malaya had encountered were Posen and Rheinland, Westfalen had not been able to keep up with the other ships and had fallen back. She was the only German battleship that didn't get engaged with a fighting enemy.
When Malaya managed to escape the British fleet was broken. The flagship, Warspite had been attacked on three sides and forced to surrender. And the rear of the British line didn't know what was going on, so it stumbled into the Germans one by one, firing at whatever they could see. So naturally a few instances of friendly fire happened. For example Collingwood and Ballerophon both engaged the three battlecruisers, causing some damage before they realized they were British. And the Germans, despite being much better prepared accidentally sank two of their own torpedoboats as well as setting the light cruiser Frankfurt on fire, and K&#246;nig got engaged by the late comer Westfalen. But at the same time individual acts of bravery were carried out. For instance the British destroyer Broke managed to charge in under the guns of Kaiserin and torpedoed her with a full volley of four torpedoes. As she headed out and away she was finally sunk by the German battleship's secondary guns. Another was when the British destroyerleader Faulknor guarded the fleeing Resolution from four attacks by German torpedoboats to torpedo her. Damages from which she eventually had to be abandoned for, but to her credit is the kills of both B97 and B112 that she managed to torpedo herself.
Yet another was the rammingattempt from the light cruiser Dublin against the modern light cruiser Leipzig under the fire from the two battleships, Th&#252;ringen and Posen as well as the target. It only grazed the German ship as she managed to turn into the attack, but it was a brave, perhaps foolhardy, attempt to make the Germans pay. Of course Dublin sank shortly after, overcome by the multitude of shells.

Other interesting and surprising situations include the sinking of the destroyer Ossory, when she turned into the path of the oncoming Th&#252;ringen and was promptly sailed under the water in a great crash.
Another instance was when the destroyer Marksman and the torpedoboat V73 engaged in an hourlong gunduel where they both ended up expending all ammo and were too damaged to even attempt ramming the other. The two captains would later become best of friends.

After Colossus turned back no new British ships entered into the battle, as the following ships one by one followed her out of the engagementzone. But as each of them turned they managed to leave the Germans a going-away present that cost them the old light cruiser Kolberg and considerable damages to both Th&#252;ringen and Hindenburg. But the Germans managed to hunt down Royal Oak (with Hindenburg and Derfflinger) and Emperor of India (with Bayernand K&#246;nig), causing the previous to surrender and the latter to fight it out.

In the end the British lost Ajax, Centurion, King George V, Warspite, Royal Oak, Resolution and Emperor of India sunk, with Revenge, Malaya, Benbow, Colossus and Lion heavily damaged. The losses among the destroyers and light cruiser are impossible to calculate as they were scattered to the winds, and no real Order of the Fleet was made as it was an ad hoc force, created out of need.
Other notable losses was the death of Vice Admiral Latham, the commander of the Grand Fleet and the brave and intelligent Rear Admiral Evan-Thomas on Resolution.

The German lost, most notably, Baden, but it wasn't the only dreadnought lost, the others were Grosser Kurf&#252;rst and Kaiserin. Beyond that Kronprinz Wilhelm, Kaiser, Fredrich der Grosse and Hindenburg were damaged to the point that they had to return to Zeebr&#252;gge. I have included a picture taken of Kaiser after she had landed at Zeebr&#252;gge.
https://img55.imageshack.us/img55/8625/damageiv6.jpg
As you can see the damages were quite extensive, and that the victory of the Fog Battle was not as clearcut as the cold numbers themselves say.
Beyond that the Germans lost the four light cruisers Frankfurt, Kolberg, K&#246;nigsberg and Dresden, as well as seven torpedoboats.
Other special losses is the German commander in chief of the Hochseeflotte (High Seas Fleet), Vice Admiral Schleizinger.

The real horror of this battle was the lousy visibility, that meant not only that the damages were deal heavily and fast, but also that sailors in the water could not be seen from ships even very close to them. Thus of the many thousands of sailors on the sunken ships, only about 1500 were saved in time, German and British alike.

The German battlefleet had won, it had scattered the Grand Fleet in a surprising action in a fog, but in the process it had worn itself out. Only seven heavy units were still able to fight on. And without leadership it seems it was bound to fail in its ultimate objective, the destruction of the Channel ports. However, Kommodore Loesch of Kaiser managed to transfer to K&#246;nig Albert and took over command of the German battlefleet and directed it onwards.

The losses and time used in recovering survivors and bodies from the water, as well as taking stock of the losses, meant he had to push the fleet on if it was to reach Calais in time. The Strike Force which the British hadn't known anything about actually stumbled right through the battlesite, and managed to pick up six survivors from the battle, two British and four German. L&#252;tjens had by then departed them and managed to reach Calais in time.

The Strike Force was predictably engaged by the French force stationed at Dunkirk. But two versus five will never lead to anything good and the French ships were easily taken out by a torpedoboatattack.
Meanwhile L&#252;tjens entered Calais, but he was however discovered for what he was just as he crossed the outer pier. He and his squadron managed to sink most ofthe ships in the port, while the battleships out to sea pounded the French forts. However, the Betruger was sunk before she could set off her explosives near the warehouses. So Loesch opted to bombard the entire port when the remaining single torpedoboat made it out again. Unfortunately L&#252;tjens was killed when the Betruger was sunk.

The Strike Force had long since said farewell to the two commerce raiders, which had sailed during the entire night to reach the little fishingvillage near Bolougne. There, during the earliest hours they disembarked the two regiments of infantry.
The pre-drednoughts had continued to empty every shell into Dunkirk, first their main guns, then later when the shore batteries were presumed leveled, they closed to use their secondary batteries, free from fear of British or French intervention. The five hours they stayed on site meant that Dunkirk was at best, a rubbleheap when they left again.

Calais was also subjected to a heavy bombardment, more than double the number of heavy guns kept up the barrage on the port, sinking what was left after L&#252;tjens' raid. However, the smaller amount of HE shells carried meant the destruction was considerably less than at Dunkirk. However the port was out of action.

Bolougne ended up a semi-failure. A regiment of American infantry had landed only the day before, and awaited transport out of the city when the Germans attacked. When it was clear the city itself was not breachable, they shifted their target to the two forts covering the entrance to the port. There they succeeded in capturing the shore batteries, which theythen turned on the city and port.
For three days they held out against reinforcements brought down from the route to the front.

Combined, these three attacked took out the main three Channel ports on the French side. The loss of supplies for a few days prior to the next great offensive of the German Army, meant the BEF was anything but ready for them. The offensive didn't bog down as the first had, and within two weeks German troops were walking in Bolougne, while two thirds of the BEF was bottled up in Calais and Dunkirk. Meanwhile the French Army had pulled back to protect Paris from the third German offensive aimed at that very location. And as such the BEF was doomed.

While the Germans lost Westfalen to a destroyerattack on the way home, the campaign had been a succes. And by June the Allies asked for an armistice. Germany had managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Back home in Germany, the Imperial Navy were the heroes of the war, the saviours of a beaten nation. And above all Vice Admiral Schleizinger was revered, in fact he was posthumously promoted to full Admiral and given the Pour le Merit.

So there you have it. The battle and the aftereffects. That should give you something to tell your students next time. If they persist, just ask and I will gladly help you again. You could of course just refer to me, but I think it would be better if you learned this as well.

Your old comrade in studies
Daniel

*Disclaimer
Neither Schleizinger, nor Latham or Stossburg were actual persons. And the picture is actually of Seydlitz after Jutland.

[AggonyDuck]

That was a jawdropping result. I was expecting a glorious defeat, but instead we won a crushing victory and helped win the war in the end. I'm just speechless. We stole a victory from the jaws of defeat. Anyway way to go for the Kaiserliche Marine. Also I'm extremely happy about the fact that my favourite ship, the Derfflinger survived the battle. :2thumbsup:

Thank you for this wonderful Interactive History Kraxis. It has been a thrilling story with wonderful writing and a lot of hard decisions. Could it be possible for us to get a view on the British side of the story now? Perhaps a link to our opposing forum?

Thank you Kraxis for giving us this Interactive History.:bow:

[Stig]

mmm great last chapter Tarrak

[AntiochusIII]

*Cries*

...amazing. We are dead; we are victorious.

Kraxis, sir, you are an amazing writer. The foreshadowing with the German-favorite Ride of the Valkyries, Admiral Nelson's victory in death, and the bittersweet ending: simply beautiful.

It is funny, though -- for such an epic battle, we didn't lose that much at all, but what we lost was our very flagship!

:bow:

[Kraxis]

:bow:

I thank thee for thyne generous words. I'm happy you noticed these things. They were highly intentional.

And it was Ride of the Valkyries... I did think I made a small mistake there. I think I better change it.

Oh, btw Aggony, it wasn't a crushing victory, and as my historian wrote the cold numbers didn't tell everything. The British managed to extract enough forces to make sure you didn't gain supremacy. But without leadership and the fleet scattered it would be a considerable time before they could set out again. You gained temporary supremacy in the Channel and that was enough.

[AggonyDuck]

Oh, btw Aggony, it wasn't a crushing victory, and my historian wrote the cold numbers didn't tell everything. The British managed to extract enough forces to make sure you didn't gain supremacy. But without leadership and the fleet scattered it would be a considerable time before they could set out again. You gained temporary supremacy in the Channel and that was enough.

Well to me it feels like a crushing victory. Although I agree, the choice of word was perhaps a bit wrong.~:)

By the way, could we perhaps get a chance to see the British side of things?

[Kagemusha]

Thank you,thank you,thank you Kraxis!! What a great end.:bow: I cant believe it but we did won.Even in death we won.Duckie told me that the last chapter was ready and i put Sibelius Valse Triste to play as background music and bloody hell the atmosphere was so intense that my eye almost cought a tear when i read it through.A great chapter and enermous interactive history.Thank you Kraxis.~:cheers:

Kage

[Kraxis]

I have a small confession about the British side.

For the most part of the story it existed.
But due to a much smaller fanbase, it sort of died out due to many reasons, I had to end it. So when you reached the landings in Kent it was the last time they actively were part of it.
However, I had gotten enough of a baseline to form a personality of the British Admiral.

They had consistently seen through you guys, but never understood the importance of the Betruger (eventhough I dropped hints for them). So your sneaky parts generally went well.
Also they liked getting into the thick of it, engaging you guys whenever possible. For instance in the first battle they charged your entire battleline with a mere eight battlecruisers, causing you to turn back (where you could have savaged them greatly).

They liked keeping an eye on you and using gimmicks, so I tried to simulate that with Furious (in the end) and the submarines.

However, they also liked to spread themselves out, so when 'they' saw through you the fleet they assembled would be hastily created, with an odd setup and bad communications. The very things that let you snatch a victory where you should have been defeated.
Had they been more "one fleet" minded then their fleet would have responded correctly to the last battle.

While I had inteded you guys to have access to the finished parts, the forum admin misunderstood me and deleted it. I had of course not made it clear that I would have liked it preserved (it was important to me in determining which British ships were actually fit for service and which could be readied like your own), so it is gone now.
However Stig can vouch for it as he is in fact from that very forum.

[discovery1]

Spectacular Kraxis, just spectacular. Thank you for writing this brilliant Interactive History.

Amazing, against all odds we beat the Grand Fleet, even at the cost of our flagship and our characters life.

[Stig]

Aye, the combination British dying out, me wanting to play made me come here.
I never really played as the Brits, as by the time I joined Pond 4 it already started dying. Tarrak posted 2 more chapters but we gave up.
Since the forum is deleted and you wouldn't be able to see it anyway there isn't much use in giving a link.
However I believe Olympus saved the thread that was destroyed with the downfall of Pond 3, so we could always ask him if he still has it. Will atleast give you about the first part of the story

[AggonyDuck]

Hmmmm, interesting to know that. Anyway do the British chapters still exist, because if your German chapter are anything to go by, they should be wonderful and interesting reading. What was the British battlecruiser that was sunk in the battlecruiser engagement?

Also could you help me clarify the British losses for the whole story?

Dreadnought, Erin, Agincourt, Canada, Barham, Ajax, Centurion, King George V, Warspite, Royal Oak, Resolution and Emperor of India. Also there's the one battlecruiser that they lost. Did the Brits lose anything else (BB/BC)?

EDIT: Shame about the British chapters. They feel like a lost treasure to me. I was lookin forward to reading them for the whole game, but sadly things ended up this way. Still it doesn't reduce the sheer greatness of this Interactive History. ~:)

[Stig]

Anyway do the British chapters still exist
As said, most likely not. I didn't expect Duck (DuckofWar, our forum admin) to delete the forum either so I didn't save it. It could be someone did, but I wouldn't know who. Tarrak didn't and he would obviously have been the first choice.

[Kagemusha]

Kraxis. I think you deserve something for this huge work other then just our appreciation. I looked at the start of the thread and it has been almost 11 months of Naval Warfare for us in the chapter house. This has truly been the ultimate one, no matter if the other side gave up at some point.Truly amazing. I tip my hat to you Sir.

[AggonyDuck]

I agree with Kage. You have put down a lot of energy into this and I think that we should reward you for your efforts in some way than just statements of appreciation. :2thumbsup:

[Flavius Clemens]

Well the others have already said it all, but just to echo them - thanks Kraxis, this was the best yet.

Just out of interest, if we hadn't picked option 2 would we have faced a British victory?

[Stig]

Had a look around the Pond (what the forum is called) for you Ducky but I couldn't find anything.
The only thing that had to do with it was the excuse thread, in which Tarrak started complaining that all the moving around (3 forums within 2 months) was too much for him and his IH, and after that everyone gave excuses why they didn't play ~D

[Flavius Clemens]

I agree with Kage. You have put down a lot of energy into this and I think that we should reward you for your efforts in some way than just statements of appreciation. :2thumbsup:


Pour le Merit for Admiral Kraxis

[Kraxis]

The sunk battlecruiser was Inflexible.

Also both Orion and Monarch were lost in the initial engagement, and Queen Elizabeth didn't take too well to the duel and actually floundered on the way home.

She was the ship your zeppeliner found alone with some 'boxy' ships. She had at the time just been raised (she came to rest on te Dogger Bank) and was being floated home by barges.

Guys you also have to remember that this is training for the time I might become a real author.
I have learned a lot about creating personality, giving the person a weakness (in your case a bit of schizophrenia) is a good way to make him/her believeable. And creating 'sidekicks' is also a good way to further the person (Han Solo and Chewie is a good example).

Btw, Derffi is also my favourite ship. And I guess it shows. She does everything and then some.

[Stig]

http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/images/PourleMerite2.jpg
here you are ~D

If I would have been in Denmark I would have bought you a beer for keeping this up. But then I'm not.
Maybe making sure he gets into 2006's Hall of Fame of this site will do, tho that will be simbolical.

[Kraxis]

Just out of interest, if we hadn't picked option 2 would we have faced a British victory?
Hehe...

One would have led to a bloodless defeat, another would have led to the British intercepting the Strike Force, and the last would have been an utter crushing of your Battle Force. However I would in that case have let you live. I thought it would have been better to have Schleizinger be tormented by the lives he threw away. And basically I would have let the historian comment that he would have been institutionalized when he returned because he could barely function anymore. And eventually in the twenties he would commit suicide.

[Kraxis]

Pour le Merit for Admiral Kraxis

http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/images/PourleMerite2.jpg
here you are ~D

If I would have been in Denmark I would have bought you a beer for keeping this up. But then I'm not.
Maybe making sure he gets into 2006's Hall of Fame of this site will do, tho that will be simbolical.
:bow:

Thank you both... I will wear it with pride!

Just noticed something. That Pour le Merite has oak leaves, very much like the Knight's Cross (with Oak Leaves) of WWII.

[AggonyDuck]

The sunk battlecruiser was Inflexible.

Also both Orion and Monarch were lost in the initial engagement, and Queen Elizabeth didn't take too well to the duel and actually floundered on the way home.

She was the ship your zeppeliner found alone with some 'boxy' ships. She had at the time just been raised (she came to rest on te Dogger Bank) and was being floated home by barges.

Guys you also have to remember that this is training for the time I might become a real author.
I have learned a lot about creating personality, giving the person a weakness (in your case a bit of schizophrenia) is a good way to make him/her believeable. And creating 'sidekicks' is also a good way to further the person (Han Solo and Chewie is a good example).


Dreadnought, Orion, Monarch, Erin, Agincourt, Canada, Barham, Ajax, Centurion, King George V, Warspite, Royal Oak, Resolution, Emperor of India and Inflexible. So in the end we pretty much ended up destroying 40% of the Royal Navy's capital ships. We on the other hand ended up losing a third of our capital ships, so in percentages it was a very even war.

Also if you ever do become an author and if you end up not writing in Danish, then please do let us know. From the looks of your Interactive Histories they have potential to be bloody nice. :yes:

[Kagemusha]

Here is my humble token of appreciation.The file is little too big for Org banner,but maybe someone could shrink it or maybe Tosa could be lenient for our Interactive historian.:bow:

https://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3514/thedueloftheseacopykx5.jpg

[Kraxis]

That is bloody nice! Way to go!
I think I might indeed ask Tosa, for it is terribly nice. And I need a new sig of course. But I would feel it was wrong if it wasn't open to all. I prefer to get my ideas and stories out to the public. :yes: I'm a man of the people... or something like that, all the great liers have said that at some point, so why shouldn't I?:laugh4:

And Aggony, I can tell you one thing. I'm actually better that writing in English than in Danish when it comes to fiction. The English language is so much easier to use to construct sentences with. You can write what you want with a huge variety of words, and each of them gives the sentence a level of strength, from very low to very high, yet you write the same thing essentially. That is very good when you want to write fiction as it gives you a lot of room to move about. Your characters gain more personality that way.
And of course there are more money in an english speaking market, there are after all only 5 million Danes. But perhaps a couple billion people being able to read English.

[Kagemusha]

Thanks Kraxis.I hope you can wear it or it can be shrinked so everyone who wants can.:yes:

[Kraxis]

As the observant patron wil have noticed the beautiful banner made it to my sigline. It has indeed been made 'smaller', so it is open to all. Just copy the one I have in my sigline (the previous one here is still too large).

Thanks to Sasaki Kikojiro for the help.

Ahh... now good old Derffi will follow me around.

[King Kurt]

Just caught up with the end of the story - what an end - can I add my congratulations Kraxis on your excellent management of the story and brilliant narrative - if you ever need somebody to read your copy for English - I'm your man. In England - where virtually everybody struggles to speak English, let alone a foreign language - we are constantly amazed by other nations ability to speak and write a second or third language, so well done.
As for looking back on the story, I am pleased that our management by committee approach, despite heated debate, did produce the desired result. I had realised that the English had tended to be aggressive, which was why I had always preached caution, as they could always look to loose more ships than us. I did think that we had managed to give them the slip this time and was surpised that there was as many ships there as there was. it would be good to have a narrative from the English point of view of the moves up to the Fog battle.
I feel like there is much more to say and discuss, but I don't have the time, so maybe I will come back to it in a few days.

Finally, once again, well done Kraxis, I, and I am sure my fellow admirals, have enjoyed every minute.:2thumbsup:

[Stig]

Aye, and the big question now will be: What and when will be the next masterpiece

[SwordsMaster]

Bravo!

[discovery1]

Kraxis, what impact did our attempts to mine the English ports using zeps have? Oh, and what did the rank and file think of our late Vice Admiral, at least after he died?
Thanks.

[AggonyDuck]

Hehehe I told you so Kurt. :yes:

[Kraxis]

Aye, and the big question now will be: What and when will be the next masterpiece
I might have some plans for a more political and less military IH next time, and much more openended. But that one required some serious background research so I don't know when I might get on with it.


Kraxis, what impact did our attempts to mine the English ports using zeps have? Oh, and what did the rank and file think of our late Vice Admiral, at least after he died?
The mining of the British ports had the impact that it damaged a British battleship, sunk a pre-dreadnought (converted to a minelayer) and sunk a few merchants. Those were the losses, but the impact to the morale and the time expended at clearing them is much harder to determine. So I guess you can consider it a somewhat succesful operation.
The sailors at the bottom were much like the population, they adored Schleizinger's tactical ability and his general tendency to preserve his fleet. However, they would forever remember that he was also a cynical leader, who was willing to sacrifice his men for victory, and that he could at times be hotheaded.

So for them at least, he wasn't the romantic leader that the rest of Germany came to know him as.

Many thanks KK.
Praises are as always good for my confidence. And if I still know you when/if I write a novel, I might just send you the draft.

[King Kurt]

Hehehe I told you so Kurt. :yes:
As my plan was always to wreck the ports at any cost to help the offensive, I feel slightly smug:beam:

However, I admit, I was surprized that the English fleet were there in such numbers and I had hoped that we would not loose so much of the fleet:shame:

But, on the whole, I feel the tactics worked. The English, by trying to be everywhere, being ultra aggressive and not concentrating on keeping the fleet together played into our hands. Anyway, the victors always write the history and I am sure, in that, it will be a perfectly planned offensive and series of operations:yes:

[Peasant Phill]

I might have some plans for a more political and less military IH next time, and much more openended. But that one required some serious background research so I don't know when I might get on with it.

You can already count me in. May we have an idea of the setting?
I never was the most active participants (just like with Mannsteins woes were I joined to late in the game) as couldn't fall back on the tactical and technical knowledge that others had. Nevertheless I enjoyed it tremendously. The duel of the Sea was/is a masterpiece. I actually put on "Ride of the Valkyries" when our character did as I was expecting a rather dramatic end (I, however, was expecting a sort of demise of our fleet in a heroic but disastrous last battle, like the romanticised portrayal of a soldier dying unsuccessfully in a heroic charge admitst explosions and carnage).

To the other participants, who's suggestions and remarks were far more crucial to our victory than mine, I can only express my gratitude and admiration. If it weren't for you guys (Kage, Legio, KK, Aggonyduck and the others I'm forgetting right now) this interactive history wouldn't have been half as brilliant or even died out like on the other forum. At times I felt like a junior officer happening to witness a debate on tactics by veteran captains.


Many thanks to all who made this story so unforgettable.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Very nice Interactive with an brilliant ending!
(and nice signature ~:), plus I second the decorations ~:) )

[Kommodus]

Astounding! A German victory on the high seas! Kraxis, let me repeat what everyone else has said - this was the best Interactive History to date, and it was absolutely incredible! Your already-great writing continues to improve, and I have no doubt you will be a wonderful author.

I was absent for the final decision, so I didn't get to influence it, but oh well - the decision made was a good one. The victory may not have been absolutely crushing, but considering the odds against us, any sort of victory is very welcome. As I read the opening part of the final chapter, my heart sank - I was sure we'd be crushed when it became apparent that the main High Seas Fleet was upon us. When our character, the Vice Admiral, perished, I was sure it was all over. We'd gone down in a blaze of glory.

Then came the "e-mail," and the description of our eventual victory, despite heavy losses and the death of our character. I was flabbergasted, but pleasantly surprised. Part of me wondered if you'd been a bit kind to us, allowing us to beat a much larger and more powerful fleet.

Regardless, this was a supremely enjoyable IH, and the victory only sweetens the deal. Splendid job, Kraxis, and thank you once again!

:thumbsup: :bow: ~:cheers: ~D ~:thumb: ~:pat: :shakehands:

[Conqueror]

Though I never posted a vote in the decisions, I must say that I had a great time lurking in this thread, reading the chapters. It was brilliant writing that glued me to the computer so that I almost were late to a class more than once because of it. Great job, Kraxis :2thumbsup:

[AntiochusIII]

At times I felt like a junior officer happening to witness a debate on tactics by veteran captains.Ha! Me too. :2thumbsup:

Kraxis, I believe that you've made us a group of dedicated fans here. Whenever you write a book, just tell us and we'll be spreading the word as soon as possible!

[Stig]

Tho we do expect to be able to buy it for a "friendly" price, eh ~D

[Kagemusha]

You can already count me in. May we have an idea of the setting?
I never was the most active participants (just like with Mannsteins woes were I joined to late in the game) as couldn't fall back on the tactical and technical knowledge that others had. Nevertheless I enjoyed it tremendously. The duel of the Sea was/is a masterpiece. I actually put on "Ride of the Valkyries" when our character did as I was expecting a rather dramatic end (I, however, was expecting a sort of demise of our fleet in a heroic but disastrous last battle, like the romanticised portrayal of a soldier dying unsuccessfully in a heroic charge admitst explosions and carnage).

To the other participants, who's suggestions and remarks were far more crucial to our victory than mine, I can only express my gratitude and admiration. If it weren't for you guys (Kage, Legio, KK, Aggonyduck and the others I'm forgetting right now) this interactive history wouldn't have been half as brilliant or even died out like on the other forum. At times I felt like a junior officer happening to witness a debate on tactics by veteran captains.


Many thanks to all who made this story so unforgettable.

Thank you Phill,for your kind words.~:) This was such a long journey that i feel that we were and are like band of brothers.Brothers in arms.You forgot one person who was very formidable,Franc,Franconicus.Altough personally while our character was killed we emerged victorius.But in my opinion, we were just lucky.We were in Amok run.Without that fog,i believe we would have been slaughtered.But then its just Kage.Never enough happy,always something to improve.~;)

[AggonyDuck]

Then came the "e-mail," and the description of our eventual victory, despite heavy losses and the death of our character. I was flabbergasted, but pleasantly surprised. Part of me wondered if you'd been a bit kind to us, allowing us to beat a much larger and more powerful fleet.

Actually the interesting thing was that we faced eighteen battleships and three battlecruisers with our thirteen battleships and two battlecruisers. This actually meant that their fleet wasn't that much larger. They only outnumbered us by five battleships and one battlecruiser. In these conditions they could hardly take advantage of their numbers and at a close range engagement our superior armour and gunnery did show.

Anyway what we have to thank for this victory is that blessed fog combined with our excellent decision of charging and the fact that we only faced a half of the Grand Fleet that existed at the start of this campaign. I think the conservative use of our forces while the more daring approach of the Brits ended up halving their strength at a crucial moment.

[Stig]

Aye, a suprise attack in the fog always shows off. I kinda was the only person who didn't want to charge in Nelson style, but then I didn't really think of this. In the fog you sometimes are able to take out 1 or 2 enemies before they can even do anything against you. And as Ducky said German ships are superior to British.

[Ludens]

Thanks very much for this excellent interactive history, Kraxis.

And to all other players: it was a great game. Thank you all.
:bow:

[Franconicus]

Outstanding!

Thank you, Kraxis!

[Kraxis]

Aye, a suprise attack in the fog always shows off. I kinda was the only person who didn't want to charge in Nelson style, but then I didn't really think of this. In the fog you sometimes are able to take out 1 or 2 enemies before they can even do anything against you. And as Ducky said German ships are superior to British.
I wouldn't go so far to call the German ships superior, but they were better able to take punishment, which could be vital at close range.

In the fog you had a number of advantages. You had initiative, your ships and crews knew what to expect and what was expected of them (the British obviously didn't), you were a coherent force (the British were a hastily assembled force) and you were able to nullify the numeric advantage of the British by forcing them to fiht you on an individual basis almost.

And yes, the British had been taking heavier losses until then due to aggressiveness and your relatively cautious movements. A lot of their ships were thus tied up in docks for repairs. Much like your own, but you could pull the halfrepaired ships out for a last mission while the British would not be able to do that to the same extent (they obviously didn't know what was going on until it was too late).

However, Furious was shaken off. And she did manage to connect with you again after having lost you during the night when you left (yup, you were spotted by her planes). That nearly cost you fleet if the British hadn't been adamant on protecting the convoys from Sweden (they had their battlecruisers try to ambush yours after the raid on the previous convoy, that was their last choice I think).

[discovery1]

Thanks for answering my earlier questions Kraxis.


However, Furious was shaken off. And she did manage to connect with you again after having lost you during the night when you left (yup, you were spotted by her planes). That nearly cost you fleet if the British hadn't been adamant on protecting the convoys from Sweden (they had their battlecruisers try to ambush yours after the raid on the previous convoy, that was their last choice I think).

So after we left for the final raid we were found by their planes, but we were saved because they thought that we were going after the convoys?

What was the impact of our mounting AAA on our zeps btw?

[Kraxis]

The British weren't sure what was going on and Furious stayed in place after spotting you leave. Only after the submarine's report did it become obvious to them.

The British had only planned a reverse of your own battlecruiser raid (ambush your battlecruisers as they would sneak towards Norway).
Their battleships were however spread out to counter more landings, but some were sent out to find and engage you, expecting a 'usual' battle along the lines of the previous.
When Furious spotted you first, the battlecruisers rushed south to engage you, in an attempt to hold you (and later just slow you down for the battleships to have time to converge on you).

Had they been at their right position, not expecting a raid, you would have been shadowed, and possibly the Strike Force would have been known all along. Luckily the relatively bad weather soon forced Furious out of the picture (when you restructured the alignment of the Forces).

The zep AA didn't end up making much impact. It was really meant as a possible counter for Furious and a possible raid by her on the main zep base in Jutland. The British just never chose it. And if they had, I would still have punished you. But it was meant for a more prolific use of both zeps and Furious where encounters would have been more frequent. As it happened both sides scaled back the use of these forces to a passive stance.

[discovery1]

Ah, thanks Kraxis.

[Csargo]

Very nice IH Kraxis it was a fun read.

[Doug-Thompson]

Sorry I didn't get in on this much earlier. ~:mecry:

1 C: Do a raid on Dover or the scandianavian convoys with either a fast battlecruiser force or a slower stronger battleship group.

I'd go for the Scandinavian Convoys. Trying to shell Dover would run right into the "spider web" flying-boat anti-submarine patrols off the Belgian Coast by this point in the war, and suprise would be lost.

2) B: Scale down usage on wireless.

Ships can be attached to landline telegraph and telephone communication while in port. There was never a good reason for all that chatter.

3) B: Keep them at home for the time being.

By the end of 1916, Zeppelin reconnaisance had compiled a record of being seriously spotty.

4) B: Keep them at home.

If anything, I'd strip old ships of usable crew. Attaining numerical superiority is impossible by any means. Surprise, secrecy and speed are the only ways to really get anything accomplished. Also, by this time many of the navy's best officers were at sea in the U-boat war.

5) B: Let them stay, they are some of the oldest ships in the active fleet.

As I said in #4, material parity cannot be attained.

[Stig]

it's over m8

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yeah we already won so whatever we did worked.

[Kraxis]

Btw guys, you might want to keep an eye on this thread for a while yet.

I might have been able to secure some nifty little flash maps of ships moving... Currently I will keep the source hidden until it might be ready (in case it won't be, then it would be unfair).

[Peasant Phill]

Thanks Kraxis, that would be great.

[King Kurt]

Kraxis - animations for christmas - you spoil us!!!!!!!

I would love to see what happened and find out more from the view from the other side.:2thumbsup: