The Godfather, Part 2 [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 2

Kommodus

10-27-2006, 05:10

Wow, I'm gone for six or seven hours, and come back to find a big pile of votes for me. What'd'ya know. :shrug:

Whatever all your reasons are for voting for me (which don't seem to have been articulated publicly much), they're wrong - I'm not the Godfather, and I wasn't chosen as a mafioso either. Think about it, guys - why would the Godfather select someone who openly said, before the game even started, that he wouldn't be able to participate fully?

I've got no special role in this game; just a regular villager. As for Sigurd's bewildering assertion that I'm the Godfather, I can only guess why he claims this. Maybe this is my own tactics from Mafia IV coming back to bite me - claiming to have knowledge of the guilty party, but refusing to reveal how this knowledge was obtained. The difference is that while I was right, Sigurd is, in this case, utterly wrong.

Now, that much will be obvious when I am lynched and the game continues, since once the Godfather dies the game is over. But I think that when this happens, you should demand that Sigurd explain himself. I have a lot of respect for his deductive abilities, and his accusation of me makes no sense. Obviously GeneralHankerchief has heard Sigurd's argument and was convinced, but since the conclusion is false then either the assumptions or the reasoning are flawed. Sigurd, why don't you make your reasoning public?

The question has been asked why I'm not using my method from Mafia IV here to sniff out the mafia. For the answer to that, go back to the end of Mafia IV and read my posts, in which I promised not to use that method ever again. My self-imposed moratorium still stands; I'm deliberately forcing myself to rely on more conventional tactics.

Anyway, I doubt any of this will sway the outcome, as many votes have already been cast in my direction. Ah, well - this will be the first time I have the pleasure of being falsely lynched. Don't worry; I remain a loyal townsperson, and I don't blame any of you. Just remember the outcome of Silver's last game, and try to use better reasoning next time.

Death Match

10-27-2006, 05:38

It looks like nobody is suspecting me for anything. I, however, think in a different way. We live in a world, Gameroom, where anything is possible. I could be the Godfather! I could even be a mafioso. I am not saying any of these are true, but the point is, hey, don't just suspect on people who are posting - people who are not posting may be trying to keep their cover!

Csargo

10-27-2006, 05:45

Sigurd

10-27-2006, 08:06

Alright Kommodus you gave a pretty good defence and considering you are leading the votes, a convincing one.
I will now put forth my evidence and suspicion and we will see if the townies agree with my conclusion.

On the eve of the very start of this game after Silver’s first announcement that he had sent PM’s out, I got a pm while surfing the .org and I think I was looking at some profiles.
My heart was jumping and I expected to find Silver’s Godfather PM there. Mind you my heart did not jump for joy.
The pm was from you Kommodus. And first I thought nothing of it, but later I found it highly suspicious.
This is it:

Out of curiosity, what did your military service involve?
Why did you send me this? You knew I would give a full answer as I did and spent some time in the PM typing up the answer. Anyone monitoring pm activity would have caught me sending a pm at that crucial moment. Considering you hiding your activity no-one could have seen your pm’ing.
I think you are the Godfather as Silver had a round of role distribution after all this as well.
I think it has been a while since I mentioned anything about my career in the military and your pm strikes me as a diversion especially since you never replied with a thanx or a comment. Maybe it was because I told you in my pm that I got a little afraid that I had been assigned a role. You realised your mistake and hoped I would forget all about it.
If all the above is just nothing, I still believe you a candidate for being chosen by the Godfather.
My vote stands.

Ignoramus

10-27-2006, 08:13

That does sound suspicious. Perhaps also for another reason. Perhaps Kommodus was looking for "interesting" ways of eliminating his victims...

Sir Moody

10-27-2006, 09:21

thats a very weak set of evidence and komm is usually very good at picking mafia when hes a townie so i think we can risk leaving him alive considering the evidence we have is flimsy at best

Don o nthe other hand is making me very nervous with all these "newbie" posts ive only been in 2 Mafia before this so im a newbie but i never posted like that... hes very very suspicous

unvote: abstain
Vote: Don Corleone

Death Match

10-27-2006, 09:55

Whatever you people think. I think that we can rely on our detective to figure out whether or not Kommodos is guilty or not. Sigurd Fafnesbane, I find your evidence a bit suspicious. Maybe you are trying to defend your cover and divert attention to another person?

Don't draw into a conclusion, my friend. I will not vote for you, but I hope the detective investigates pretty soon.

That is not to say that Kommodos is not a guilty one. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. But because I trust you, Sigurd Fafnesbane, I am voting for him.

Vote: Kommodos

Sigurd

10-27-2006, 10:15

Whatever you people think. I think that we can rely on our detective to figure out whether or not Kommodos is guilty or not.
One thing is sure; the detective is of no use when it comes to ferreting out the Godfather as he comes up innocent if investigated.

If Kommodus is innocent, I will gladly take a lynching myself as deserved.

Myrddraal

10-27-2006, 11:36

If Kommodus is innocent, I will gladly take a lynching myself as deserved.

It would be deserved. For all we know, you could be pulling a Sasaki on us (leading the crowd in the last godfather), and doing it in a very clever way with that last little comment.

However, how will we ever know? The mafia are only killing one person, so we can never be sure when we've got one... That's surely what they intend (although it's probably very foolish so early on in the game)... Unless of course we really did get a mafia :inquisitive:

Don Corleone I'm not liking the attitude. I just think the continuous asking of newbie questions seems like perfect cover for a mafia member. Husar has been going down that route too. I think Husar made it without anyone commenting on this behavior yet. We need to keep all behavior in the spotlight, don't let anything slip or get forgotten etc.

Still, I'm not feeling enlightened. Vote:... I don't know... :sad:

Vote:Kommodus
Since we can't find out if you're right Sigurd, I've got my eye on you :evilgrin:

EDIT: I'm also thinking about those who followed Sigurd blindly... :inquisitive:

Kommodus

10-27-2006, 12:56

I think it has been a while since I mentioned anything about my career in the military and your pm strikes me as a diversion especially since you never replied with a thanx or a comment.

Actually, it hasn't been that long, Sigurd - you mentioned it at the end of Mafia IV; something about having worked in the field during your military service. That's what I was curious about.

I guess this is my belated "thanks" for your reply. Sorry I didn't send it sooner. Regardless, I asked you that purely out of curiosity due to your post in Mafia IV.

Sigurd, I think you're being sincere, but it really is just a big misunderstanding. Most of the people here are surely smart enough to know that simple-minded "profile watching" will not net you a mafioso. There was some speculation that that's what I used in Mafia IV, but believe me when I say there was a lot more to it than that. Besides, many of the methods available to the mafia to defeat profile watching were discussed in Cosa Nuova, most prominently by you. If you were a mafioso, you'd use them.

Congratulations, though, on getting a townie lynched. I repeat it one last time: I'm innocent, and that will be clear eventually, though you may have to wait till the end of the game to see it.

Maybe next time I'm tempted to ask a friendly question I'll quell my curiosity... :sweatdrop:

Sigurd

10-27-2006, 13:10

I guess playing this game is giving you a slight dose of paranoia.
Not good...

Somewhere a Godfather is laughing his/her @ss off.

Peasant Phill

10-27-2006, 13:15

@Don Corleone
No worries mate. I understand your vote. I've always acted under the radar and posted very little, it's what keeps me alive and what kills me. No one notices me until the mafia starts to kill people who aren't suspicious. I only survived one game and it was because the doc saved me (and after I killed the tiger of course) and the mafia didn't get any time to kill innocents. The reason for my act is:
1) to survive a few rounds
2) I don't accuse or defend people to stoutly as a few lines of text on this forum usualy doesn't prove a thing. I can only give my suspicions
3) real life. By the time I get round to reading the forum (at least once a day) many new posts were written and most of the time I feel I don't have much left to add.

Vote: Abstain
nothing more than hunches

Seamus Fermanagh

10-27-2006, 13:21

Most of the people here are surely smart enough to know that simple-minded "profile watching" will not net you a mafioso. There was some speculation that that's what I used in Mafia IV, but believe me when I say there was a lot more to it than that. Besides, many of the methods available to the mafia to defeat profile watching were discussed in Cosa Nuova, most prominently by you. If you were a mafioso, you'd use them.

....with respect, it was by precisely that method that Hanky identified Destroyer as a potential mafioso in Cosa Nuova. Destro was lynched based -- I suspect -- on Hanky's efforts, and Hanky had certainly PM'd me with his evidence to insure that Destroyer was my next investigation (made unnecessary by his demise).

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Kommodus

Sigurd

10-27-2006, 13:22

Most of the people here are surely smart enough to know that simple-minded "profile watching" will not net you a mafioso.
Actually this is how GH got DoH in your game... It was doc_bean's and my warning that sharpened him up. No wonder GH was pissed at me.

[edit]: damn, too late again

Kommodus

10-27-2006, 14:06

Really, that's how you guys got DoH? How about that... and as you'll see in the write-up soon, I was having my mafiosos communicating with me through e-mail to try to counteract that approach (although they didn't always follow my suggestion).

Well, nothing I can say is going to make any difference, so go ahead, finish me off. But I'll be the one laughing at the end of the game and saying "I told you so." Really, Sigurd, was lynching one of the town's most potentially helpful citizens worth such a taint on your reputation? Up until this point, I've had such respect for your deductive powers, and I suspect others have had the same respect. Ah well, no one's infallible...

See y'all in "The Black Hand."

EDIT:

Somewhere a Godfather is laughing his/her @ss off.

Somehow I feel that must be true.

Sigurd

10-27-2006, 14:28

Really, that's how you guys got DoH? How about that... and as you'll see in the write-up soon, I was having my mafiosos communicating with me through e-mail to try to counteract that approach (although they didn't always follow my suggestion).
I just took GH's word for it.

Really, Sigurd, was lynching one of the town's most potentially helpful citizens worth such a taint on your reputation? Up until this point, I've had such respect for your deductive powers, and I suspect others have had the same respect. Ah well, no one's infallible...

Now, now.. Are you trying to change my vote? If I let you off the hook now and you are in fact the Godfather, the game will be all yours.
In Mafia we lynch on suspicion. Even though you claim innocence you could still be lying. It comes with the trade of being mafioso. There is just no way of knowing as I can't read your body language.

Kommodus

10-27-2006, 14:58

Now, now.. Are you trying to change my vote?

Not in the slightest; I wouldn't dream of it. Like I said, this is the first time I've had the pleasure of being falsely lynched. It's really quite a unique experience. Simply hunting down mafiosos was becoming almost... banal.

Besides, the timing of my PM was a little questionable, I suppose. I'd thought of asking you the question before, but was busy and hadn't gotten around to it. BTW, it sounds like you had a very interesting time in the military.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-27-2006, 16:21

Hmm. Sigurd's PM reasoning is not convincing in the slightest. However Kommodus' defence does not sound innocent and I already had a good reason to vote him.

Myrddraal

10-27-2006, 17:04

Hmm. Sigurd's PM reasoning is not convincing in the slightest. However Kommodus' defence does not sound innocent and I already had a good reason to vote him.

I'd say that's actually the most convincing thing so far. The theories posted so far have been quite weak. Not that surprising really so early in the game.

Kommodus

10-27-2006, 17:04

However Kommodus' defence does not sound innocent and I already had a good reason to vote him.

Hehe, I've been known to have a way of acting guilty even when I'm innocent - especially when I'm innocent, in fact. When I start acting innocent is when you really have to watch out.

Out of curiosity, what's your reason to vote for me? Because I'd make a good choice as a mafia grunt for the Godfather? :laugh4:

Divine Wind

10-27-2006, 17:37

I think the problem we have in this game, is that everyone is quite clued up on how to survive the early rounds on Mafia. Basically, keep a low profile, dont post to often, dont accuse, just abstain and bandwagon another players voting reason.

We need to be more actively accusing people. Its when players become more defensive that they make mistakes in their posts, and lead us to small clues and suspicions.

From reading the last few posts, im going to vote for Sigurd. Why? Well because its a good tactic for mafiosa to start bandwagoning votes, and especially being active in the chat room trying to convince other players of your innocence, while actively trying to get another player lynched. On a side note, Sigurd probably realises Kommodus is a clever villager, and wants him out of this game so he does not participate so much in the game.

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

Sasaki Kojiro

10-27-2006, 18:42

Hehe, I've been known to have a way of acting guilty even when I'm innocent - especially when I'm innocent, in fact. When I start acting innocent is when you really have to watch out.

Out of curiosity, what's your reason to vote for me? Because I'd make a good choice as a mafia grunt for the Godfather? :laugh4:

It's an excellent reason at this stage in the game.

Also, I think Sigurd making such a bold accusation is a bit far out there for mafia.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-27-2006, 18:47

I'd say that's actually the most convincing thing so far. The theories posted so far have been quite weak. Not that surprising really so early in the game.

How so? The detective messages the game host. People private message for many reasons. Mods can see who people are investigating, if you or I had been watching the pm list we'd have seen "Sigurd Fafnesbane--Replying private message Kommodus" and would likely have thought they were mafia in cahoots, thus backfiring on Kommodus. If suspicion fell on Sigurd for being seen private messaging he would say "I was replying to Kommodus" post the pm, and perhaps accuse Kommodus of setting him up as he did here.

Not in the slightest bit convincing. I can see how Sigurd would take it that way...though...one does have to wonder if this was a plot to get Kommodus out of the game. Lynching him is the only way to off him without confirming his innocence. Hmm. I'm not sure it would be worth the loss of a mafioso and dropping down to 1 kill.

Kommodus

10-27-2006, 18:58

one does have to wonder if this was a plot to get Kommodus out of the game. Lynching him is the only way to off him without confirming his innocence.

Even I doubt it was a plot to get me out of the game. More likely, as I said, a big misunderstanding, due more to the fortuitous timing of my PM to Sigurd than anything else. Somewhere there's a Godfather and two mafiosi laughing their heads off, scarcely able to believe their good fortune.

Of course, if I turn out to be wrong and Sigurd is guilty, well, someone can hand me the dunce cap. :clown: For then I'll have thoroughly been "had."

Sasaki Kojiro

10-27-2006, 19:00

Even I doubt it was a plot to get me out of the game. More likely, as I said, a big misunderstanding, due more to the fortuitous timing of my PM to Sigurd than anything else. Somewhere there's a Godfather and two mafiosi laughing their heads off, scarcely able to believe their good fortune.

Of course, if I turn out to be wrong and Sigurd is guilty, well, someone can hand me the dunce cap. :clown: For then I'll have thoroughly been "had."

Yeah, he's more a candidate for investigation than for lynch.

Don Corleone

10-27-2006, 19:08

Crazy thing about this game.... the more you learn, the more you learn how much you have to learn. This is true about how to play the game, and it's true about the details of the particular game. It's tough, because no matter what event occurs, you can take it either way:

I accused Peasant Phil. Now, if he hadn't responded at all, that would have been suspicious. If he had responded vehemently, that would have been suspicious. But he responded reasonably, and frankly, that too is suspicious. And God knows, I've aroused more suspicions than just about anyone, and rightfully so. At this point, I'm actually a little suspicious of anyone that trusts me, as there's only one way they know they could.

Anyway, in the absence of any new evidence, I'm sticking by my initial call, but it is good to know Peasant Phil won't be gunning for me behind the scenes in all subsequent games.

With regards to the PM log checking business, can't we call a moratorium on that? It seems to create more hassles then it solves, and as moderators get more information than the average player, doesn't that give them an unfair advantage?

Sasaki Kojiro

10-27-2006, 19:17

With regards to the PM log checking business, can't we call a moratorium on that? It seems to create more hassles then it solves, and as moderators get more information than the average player, doesn't that give them an unfair advantage?

We went by email and IM in the last mafia game. edit:but apparently you got destro that way? Lame...he must have been careless.

BTW Sigurd, why did you think Kommodus was the Godfather specifically? Instead of just a mafioso.

also edit:

Somewhere a Godfather is laughing his/her @ss off.

Somehow I feel that must be true.

This is the kind of thing I meant when I said Kommodus' defence didn't sound innocent. An innocent person would know that the Godfather was laughing, they wouldn't "somehow feel it was true".

Myrddraal

10-27-2006, 19:31

Umm Sasaki I was agreeing with you... :sad:

I agree, the manner of Kommodus' response is probably the most suspicious thing about him.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-27-2006, 19:39

Myrddraal

10-27-2006, 19:46

Hmm yep, bad choice of words there. :bow:

Csargo

10-27-2006, 19:55

Alright Kommodus you gave a pretty good defence and considering you are leading the votes, a convincing one.
I will now put forth my evidence and suspicion and we will see if the townies agree with my conclusion.

On the eve of the very start of this game after Silver’s first announcement that he had sent PM’s out, I got a pm while surfing the .org and I think I was looking at some profiles.
My heart was jumping and I expected to find Silver’s Godfather PM there. Mind you my heart did not jump for joy.
The pm was from you Kommodus. And first I thought nothing of it, but later I found it highly suspicious.
This is it:

Why did you send me this? You knew I would give a full answer as I did and spent some time in the PM typing up the answer. Anyone monitoring pm activity would have caught me sending a pm at that crucial moment. Considering you hiding your activity no-one could have seen your pm’ing.
I think you are the Godfather as Silver had a round of role distribution after all this as well.
I think it has been a while since I mentioned anything about my career in the military and your pm strikes me as a diversion especially since you never replied with a thanx or a comment. Maybe it was because I told you in my pm that I got a little afraid that I had been assigned a role. You realised your mistake and hoped I would forget all about it.
If all the above is just nothing, I still believe you a candidate for being chosen by the Godfather.
My vote stands.

I think this is too much of a coincidence on Kommodus's part. Seems very suspicious on his part plus it seems pointless. A good cover I think so my vote stays.

GeneralHankerchief

10-27-2006, 20:18

Ok, just to clear a few things up:

Yes, I did catch DoH PMing up a storm the first night of Cosa Nouva. I also checked his recent posts to see if any were PM-worthy. None were. It's a reason I was somewhat angered at Sigurd for posting how to beat my Big Brother method.

I did PM Seamus the evidence (screenshots), but with a request that he not reveal that these came from me. I guess that's moot now. I did tell a couple of other people in the chat why I suspected DoH (and persuaded Csar and Disco to change their votes to him) but did not give them the evidence.

I suspect that this is why Sigurd told me before everyone else. Maybe he wanted an ally to take a threat out of the game. Maybe he was being truthful and wanted to get a mafioso. But for now, the evidence against Kommodus does seem shaky. My vote stands, but there had better be only one kill next round.

Sigurd

10-27-2006, 20:25

BTW Sigurd, why did you think Kommodus was the Godfather specifically? Instead of just a mafioso.

I think it was the timing of his PM, just minutes after Silver's first announcing that roles had been PM'd.
I believe in Silver's game the role of Godfather is handed out first. The Godfather then choses his henchmen and PM Silver the list. There is a second round of role distribution. Kommodus' timing was just after the first role distribution.

As I said, I didn't think of the possibility at first, bit then suspicion washed over me.

Death Match

10-27-2006, 20:33

It looks like people are looking to solve the mystery... But do not worry. I am very sure that we, the townspeople, will win. Seriously, why not? I mean.... well....

Silver Rusher

10-27-2006, 20:34

*****Voting Closed*****

Don Corleone

10-27-2006, 20:40

Anybody wanna bet we see 2 kills this round?

Crazed Rabbit

10-27-2006, 20:46

Would the godfather getting killed affect the amount of kills?

CR

Kommodus

10-27-2006, 20:48

*****Voting Closed*****

YES! Does this mean I win? :2thumbsup:

FYI, whether we see two kills or one next round doesn't indicate much. For all you non-vets out there, in the original Godfather the mafia deliberately reduced their kills to one per turn after the first lynch simply to fool the townspeople. It worked perfectly; everyone thought they'd got a mafioso, and the mafia rode this wave of deception all the way to a complete victory.

So basically, there are multiple reasons why the number of kills might be reduced to one; successfully having lynched a mafioso is only one possibility. The mafia may use it as a deception tactic, or one of the mafia goons may fail to communicate his instructions on time.

Man oh man, I can't wait; this execution is gonna be so much fuuuuuun... :smash:

EDIT: CR, once the Godfather dies the game is over, even if the other mafia goons are still out there.

Csargo

10-27-2006, 20:56

Would the godfather getting killed affect the amount of kills?

CR

The Godfather dieing ends the game ending in a Townspeople Victory. :2thumbsup:

Edit:oops too late

Silver Rusher

10-27-2006, 21:02

Evening in the Gameroom.

Chief of Police Divine Wind sat in a boat on the Gameroom Pond with Kommodus, who was about to be executed. DW stood to address the angry mob.

"Settle down now, settle down..." DW's voice was barely heard above the rants of the townspeople.

"Kill the filthy mafioso!"

"His evil wrath will surely cause the deaths of our children!"

"He's too crafty, if you don't get him now he could escape!"

"QUIET YOU DISRESPETABLE BUNDLE OF OAFS!" DW unusually managed to gain control of the mob this way. "Listen. You have chosen to kill Kommodus today. Very well. I shall go out into the lake in the boat and push him off. He has weights attatched to his feet, so he won't be able to swim out."

"Can I say a few words?" A voice was heard from beside DW. It belonged to Kommodus. DW nodded.

"Three cheers for the intrepid townsfolk," Kommodus began in a theatrical tone, "who have bravely murdered one of their finest citizens! Let the mafia rejoice and be glad, for they have been spared the trouble of bringing down their greatest foe! But woe, woe unto you, oh city of folly; for if this is how the innocent are treated, then how shall the guilty fare?"

The sound of crickets became surprisingly strong at that moment. A tumbleweed even rolled past some of the villagers. Divine Wind was looking at his watch.

Kommodus raised his arms and looked to the sky. "Ever thus have they treated the prophets and apostles sent to them. Forgive them, for they understand not their er-"

At this point, DW, still looking at his watch, muttered: "That's lovely, Kommodus" before giving him a little shove. This shove was enough to send him plunging straight into the depths of the lake, but the weights got caught in the boat and so it capsised.

Divine Wind swam to the surface just in time to see Kommodus' pail hand reaching out for the surface. It sunk slowly back into the water.

Tally:
Kommodus - 8 votes (Csar, GeneralHankerchief, Ignoramus, Myrddraal, Sasaki Kojiro, Seamus Fermanagh, Sigurd Fafnesbane, theRTWGuru) :skull:
Don Corleone - 3 votes (Husar, Sir Moody, Xiahou)
Abstain - 4 (Big King Sanctaphrax, Cowhead418, Evil_Maniac From Mars, Peasant Phill)
Peasant Phil - 1 vote (Don Corleone)
Husar - 1 vote (Proletariat)
Not Voting - 8 (Byzantine Mercenary, Crazed Rabbit, Destroyer of Hope, Drisos, Dutch_guy, Kommodus, Masy)

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus

Still alive:
Sasaki Kojiro
Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Byzantine Mercenary
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
Sir Moody
Cowhead418
Kommodus
Dutch_guy
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Destroyer of Hope
theRTWGuru
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

PM's please. That includes you, DW. By the way, one thing I forgot to mention before was that the Chief of Police can't vote, but does not receive warnings.

Don Corleone

10-27-2006, 21:03

. For all you non-vets out there, in the original Godfather the mafia deliberately reduced their kills to one per turn after the first lynch simply to fool the townspeople. It worked perfectly; everyone thought they'd got a mafioso, and the mafia rode this wave of deception all the way to a complete victory.

This would only work for the mafia if they feel so unthreatened, they could live with just getting one kill a round. You start shaking the trees and making them nervous and that second body will start showing up every night, just as soon as you get close enough to make them nervous.

That's why I made the prediction that we're going to get 2 kills tonight. I think we're getting into the discussion really early and that's gotta be making them nervous.

Don Corleone

10-27-2006, 21:06

Uhm, Silver, you forgot to update the lynched list to include Kommodus.

Kommodus

10-27-2006, 21:29

Uhm, Silver, you forgot to update the lynched list to include Kommodus.

Yeah, he's right! I'm supposed to be deader than a mummy! :egypt:

Well, that was fun. To the Godfather and his mafiosi I say this: I hope you were as amused by all this as I was. I sense that this is going to be quite a game. :skull:

Don Corleone

10-27-2006, 21:33

Kommodus

10-27-2006, 21:49

Wait a minute... is this the twist? That Kommodus, despite being sent to the bottom of the lake, didn't drown? Just in time for Halloween eh?

Vote: Kommodus

Method: Stake through heart, beheading and silver bullet, for good measure.

Brrraaaaaaaiiiiinsssss.... Muuuuusssssst conssssuuume biiiig, juuuicy brraaaaaaaiiiinssssss....

Oh yes, and also, I vant to suck your blood. :evil:

Don Corleone

10-27-2006, 21:51

You forgot to howl, but thanks for getting the references. :laugh4:

Divine Wind

10-27-2006, 21:56

PM's please. That includes you, DW. By the way, one thing I forgot to mention before was that the Chief of Police can't vote, but does not receive warnings.

Now im confused. I cant vote, but I can be lynched? So all I get to do is choose the executions...

Thats slightly pants. :shrug:

Silver Rusher

10-27-2006, 23:51

Uhm, Silver, you forgot to update the lynched list to include Kommodus.
Dammit, I'm losing it here.

Cowhead418

10-27-2006, 23:56

Vote: Silver Rusher - I find his supposedly innocent mistakes suspicious...:inquisitive:

Csargo

10-28-2006, 00:00

Dammit, I'm losing it here.
:laugh4:

It's alright Silver I'm pretty sure it's hard to run one of these games.

Kommodus

10-28-2006, 00:24

FYI, the write-up for Cosa Nuova is up - go check it out if you're interested! :balloon2:

Seamus Fermanagh

10-28-2006, 01:49

Now im confused. I cant vote, but I can be lynched? So all I get to do is choose the executions...

Thats slightly pants. :shrug:

Can't be murdered either. So if things go ill, you get to attend all of the funerals.

Nice touch choosing a noyade -- particularly cruel.

Seamus Fermanagh

10-28-2006, 01:51

Townies all:

Out of town for all of Saturday and most of Sunday to attend an exemplification of the 4th degree (KofC). I'll scan things when I'm back.

Don Corleone

10-28-2006, 04:22

This is messed up. The mafia is screwing with us. There's no way we've nailed two of them. I doubt we've even nailed one. Talk about cheesy tricks. Okay, sorry Sigfurd, just too obvious. "Trust you, and all the mafia go away" and then they all do?

Vote: Sigfurd

Sasaki Kojiro

10-28-2006, 04:34

Hmm Don, usually the kills aren't posted with the execution, last turn was an exception.

Don Corleone

10-28-2006, 04:46

Ruh roh.

Unvote: Sigfurd
Vote: Abstain (but I got my eye on you...)

Ignoramus

10-28-2006, 05:06

I think Divine Wind is one of the mafia, possibly the Godfather.

This is what Major Robert Dump said on the revote between Drisos and Divine Wind: (it's post #189)

"Oh dear, I needs to sleep on this.

on second thought, since I can't edit, my vote still stands with Divine Wind. I don't like the chief of Police role as the likelihood that he could be mafia, so I'll vote the Chief no matter who it is. Sorry DW, its best to keep the untouchable Chief-thingy rotating. Of course, any detective please feel free to chime in via a PM and I may change my vote if I beleive you, either way I think I'm doomed to a horrible death...theres no reason to believe I'm not mafia, and no reason for the mafia not to kill me.

In my own defense, the selection of Drisos seemed purely numerical circumstance. The only person I don't trust is all of you. If Drisos were CP I would vote him just as well.

vote: Divine Wind"

Notice that MRD gets killed when Drisos gets executed?(I presume that was Silver's way of making up lost time)

Then Divine Wind kills Sigurd Fafnesbane because of one of two reasons:

1.) Kommodus is also in the mafia, therefore DW is taking revenge for Kommodus' death.

2.) Sigurd was getting to be too investigative, and may have gotten close to the mafia.

And about DW asking the detective to investigate him, how do we know that Lemur or UltraWar weren't the detective? They may have made a slight slip up, alerting the mafia to their role.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-28-2006, 05:13

Isn't Sigurd alive? https://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2158/emotpsyduckvv0.gif

Death Match

10-28-2006, 05:32

Death of Kommodos shall be revenged with more deaths! We have just killed an innocent man!

Ignoramus

10-28-2006, 05:41

Isn't Sigurd alive? https://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2158/emotpsyduckvv0.gif

Er, yes. :embarassed:

Death Match

10-28-2006, 11:48

Why isn't anyone posting? Play my game!

Husar

10-28-2006, 14:46

Why isn't anyone posting? Play my game!
You really, really sound like Mafia somehow.:inquisitive:

Dutch_guy

10-28-2006, 15:39

You really, really sound like Mafia somehow.:inquisitive:

Yes indeed, highly suspicious.

:balloon2:

Husar

10-28-2006, 16:47

Oh well, he was talking about his own mafia game, it's not my fault, I cannot be bothered to read each and every thread here.~:rolleyes:
But I could just as well have quoted his previous post, he uses too many dots and didn't post anything productive here so far.

Evil_Maniac From Mars

10-28-2006, 18:42

Vote: Abstain

Husar

10-28-2006, 20:19

Vote: Abstain
There haven't been any kills since the last lynching.

Don Corleone

10-28-2006, 20:27

Yeah, shouldn't Silver rusher be posting a kill or two here pretty soon?

Silver Rusher

10-28-2006, 21:05

Day breaks in the Gameroom. All is quiet.

Byzantine Mercenary, sleeping late, did not hear the slight noise of an intruder breaking into his house. As a matter of fact, he didn't hear anything until some duct tape was ripped off its roll about ten centimeters away from him.

"Huh? Whu-?" That was all he got out before the tape was placed over his mouth.

He tried to struggle, but the mafioso punched him in the stomach. Byz, with the wind knocked out of him, could do nothing but catch his breath and watch as the mafioso taped his remaining limbs, as well as his neck, to the mattress.

The mafioso then lifted the mattress (with Byz still on it) off of the bed, and dragged it outside. He proceeded to load it into the back of a van, with the words "Vincenzo's Guttering" on the side. The mafioso got into the front seat of the van and started to drive.

After about 15 minutes, he stopped at a familiar spot - the Gameroom pond, site of last night's execution. After opening the back, he took out the mattress and Byz, and strapped four thirty-kilo weights to it.

"This is where you get off," he said to Byz. "Say hello to Kommodus."

The mafioso, with some struggle, dragged the mattress/Byz/weights to the edge of the pond. Finally, he took out a pistol and shot Byz once, in the same spot where he was punched.

"Just to make sure you won't be going anywhere."

The mafioso pushed the mattress into the water and drove away, leaving Byzantine Mercenary to sink and bleed to death.

Later that morning, Chief of Police Divine Wind stepped up to address the crowd.

"Villagers, we have been hit by another disaster. Byzantine Mercenary was a good friend to many of us and a loyal, devoted citizen. It is a royal shame he had to be murdered. Such a charitable, honest-"

BANG. A loud gunshot was heard, and a Cessna Skyhawk flew into view.

"YAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!" the voice inside the plane was screaming out desperately as the white machine almost lost control and fuel began leaking. The pilot kept control of the plane, fortunately.

BANG. A second gunshot. This time, it hit the fuel tank again but the friction against the metal side caused it to set alight, and there was an explosion. The plane soon became a fiery inferno, with parts scattered across the ground. DW walked over to the charred corpse, picked up a stick and flipped the head over. The corpse belonged to Sir Moody.

Divine Wind turned to the villagers. "This is barbaric," he begun, "and so it must be dealt with using barbaric means. The next person to receive your votes will be stoned to death, and everyone must be involved. Get voting."

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus

Still alive:
Sasaki Kojiro
Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
Cowhead418
Dutch_guy
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Destroyer of Hope
theRTWGuru
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

Don Corleone

10-28-2006, 21:58

And neither of them had said anything yet... interesting.

Csargo

10-28-2006, 22:04

Kommodus is in the Still Alive column Silver.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-28-2006, 22:12

We can get 2 things from this.

1. They are probably looking for the detective, lurking is often detective behavior.
2. They themselves are not lurking, because killing lurkers would increase the likelihood of a mafioso being lynched for lurking.

Dutch_guy

10-28-2006, 22:47

It is interesting to note that the mafia have abandoned the one kill a turn trick, at least now we know for certain we're still dealing with the two of them. And the godfather of course.

:balloon2:

Drisos

10-28-2006, 22:56

It is interesting to note that the mafia have abandoned the one kill a turn trick, at least now we know for certain we're still dealing with the two of them. And the godfather of course.

Yeah, so you guys are already sure you lynched me innocent :furious3: :P

Good analysis in the last post, Sasaki.

Husar might be a nice one to lynch. :2thumbsup: Don't listen to me on that though, just intuition, and in most cases is has been wrong.:laugh4: :embarassed:

:skull:

Sasaki Kojiro

10-28-2006, 22:58

Csargo

10-28-2006, 23:08

Oh, and I just noticed that, byz is the same person who there was an attempt against last turn. Huh.

You noticed too eh?:yes:

Crazed Rabbit

10-28-2006, 23:20

Well the mafia have admitted that none of them have been killed off yet, and that going to one kill after Drisos was a ruse. This may be an attempt to portray the people who voted for Drisos as innocent. As such, here is a list of people who voted for Drisos the first and second rounds of voting:

Cowhead418
2 things - I'm not disagreeing with you here about lynching, I'm just making a point:

1. If we lynch a mafioso, that means that only ONE person will be killed the next night, not two.

2. If we lynch the Godfather, we win. We don't need to execute his henchmen to achieve victory.

For now, I Vote: Drisos for using some sketchy reasoning. If you noticed, Divine Wind did not use the Snowman in Cosa Nuova and was innocent despite the change in behavior. I agree with Sasaki here. We have to get everyone into the discussion. If the mafia barely have to talk, then they can avoid attention. This is what happened in the last Godfather - there was very little discussion so I easily avoided suspicion. The last time I tried to promote discussion I got lynched, but I urge the town to not allow the lurkers or one-liners to get-by so easily this time around.
Sasaki Kojiro
Lynching based on who was killed is a terrible idea. At this stage the mafia is choosing who to kill with the intent of creating a red herring.

We should instead vote based on who would be chosen mafioso by the Godfather.

Unvote:Don Corleone
Vote:Drisos

I'd choose him if I was Godfather. He always seems so innocent.
Crazed Rabbit
*CR is finishing his steak and hears the news of Don C's change in heart*

Wonderful news. I forgive you Don.

Unvote: Don C
Vote: Drisos

I wonder if he wants the CoP lynched so he can install one of his fellow mafioso?

Mainly a discussion vote.

Crazed Rabbit

Second Round of Voting on Drisos:

Dutch_guyVote: Drisos

I don't think it's best if we rotate our chief of police, yet. We have no evidence against him, and if there ever will be I'm sure the detective will find out.
It just doens't feel right to change the CoP now, what if he's innocent and we put a mafioso on the position ?

Sorry Drisos, but this just seems best to me.
Seamus Fermanagh
Vote: Drisos

I accept the idea that someone has to go -- but I'd like to see others commenting more. The only real purpose to an early execution -- aside from the Godfather catching the chop due to random luck -- is to generate voting records and commentary/rationale for same to produce a body of evidence.

So far, the primary reason for Divine Wind getting cross-bolted to a wall is that another Godfather in another game got picked as the police chief, so that requires us to kill our top cop immediately in this game. His posting behavior hasn't been outlandish, so....

Mind you, I hope a detective has done a quick exam of D.W., since he can only get whacked in a lynching, we'll need some warning if he is hinky.

The surprisingly resilient Drisos (btw, lethal injection is better, too many people don't die promptly when electrocuted!!) drew a modicum of suspicion for the style of his early discussion. This is thin evidence at best, and I was tempted to abstain for that reason, but I will support the effort to move forward.

Silver, if possible, a list of votes with names/initials at the executions would help us tally/excel chart geeks keep up. My chart still does not jibe with yours
Sasaki Kojiro
Vote:Drisos

The first round is the round where the Chief of Police is least likely to be mafia. With less people there is a greater chance of him being a mafioso. If we leave the same person as CoP the detective can investigate him instead of having to investigate each new CoP.

GeneralHankerchief
We're giving the Detective way too much trouble if we keep killing off our cops. Let him get a good read on DW first.

Vote: Drisos
Divine Wind
Gah!

Well im sure your probably innocent Drisos, but I have to look after my own skin mate.

Vote: Drisos

Id just like to remind the detective to investigate me, and see im an innocent Chief of Police just trying to make a living.

If I am investigated and proved innocent, I will benefit the town as I will be one less person that can be touched by the Mafia, raising the chances of us actually lynching one of them. This will be useful at the end of the game, as i would be one less suspect. I realise the detective wont reveal im innocent for quite a few rounds, but its worth keeping me for the reason I cant actually be touched.

Something to think about I guess.

Oh and question for Silver Rusher. If I am killed can I still think up the executions?
Major Robert Dump -DEAD by Mafia
unvote: divine wind
vote: drisos

One vote is shaky as the other. You're right about the detective vs the CoP. We will never find out as the detective takes a day to get results.

As for me saying the detective should send PMs and possibly getting PMs from people who were posing as the detective, well thats exactly what I want, thats exactly what I would expect, and I don't see why Silver would disapprove as it adds substance and confusion to the game. I'm not mafia, but alas no one took the bait into trying to fool the nooblet
Big King Sanctaphrax
Vote: Drisos.

There's not very much between them, to be honest, but voting for the CoP on the basis that GH was mafia in the last game seems like a really silly idea, so Drisos it is.

Are we allowed to reveal ourselves as the detective by PM in this game? I ask as in Kage's game it was a public reveal or not at all. I don't have a problem with private reveals, personally.
Don Corleone
I thought about that. What's more, if somebody else were mafia, wouldn't it be in their best interest to keep me in the game for as long as possible, slowing down the discussion and making you all revisit logic puzzles you've solved long ago. Truthfully, I think it's nice that you strive to keep newbies in for a little extra time, but the cold hard logic is even if you're pretty sure they're not mafia, you've got to kill every newbie, cause they slow down the discussion and reduce the ability to put things in perspective. Wait, did I just make an argument for y'all to do me in?

Okay, if the mafia cannot kill the chief of police, that changes my vote (though I would really hope the chief of police would be top of the list for the detective).

Unvote: Divine Wind
Vote: Drisos

Sorry Drisos, nothing personal. Just cold hard logic.
Csar
We cannot kill the Police Chief just yet because I'm sure he's the first person the detective would investigate(hopefully). My vote goes with Drisos nothing personal.

Vote: Drisos

This leaves us with:
Cowhead418 (Voted first time only)
Sasaki Kojiro (voted Drisos each time)
Crazed Rabbit (first time only)
Dutch_guy (second time only, as the others below him)
Seamus Fermanagh
GeneralHankerchief
Divine Wind
BKS
Don Corleone
Csar

A thorough examination of these people's votes in the last round may be in order, as the mafia could well have been attempting to prove their innocence, but then abandoning that ploy as not many people believed it.

CR

Dutch_guy

10-28-2006, 23:21

Oh, and I just noticed that, byz is the same person who there was an attempt against last turn. Huh.

Which would confirm him as an innocent then, wouldn't it.

:balloon2:

Sasaki Kojiro

10-28-2006, 23:27

Interesting thought Crazed. We could rule out all the round 2 only people though. I can't see anything in your or Cowheads posts that makes me particularly suspicious though. OTOH we can rule out "mafia forgot" because the kill appeared briefly last turn...huuuuh.

Csargo

10-28-2006, 23:36

I still have my eye on you Sasaki.:inquisitive:

Sasaki Kojiro

10-28-2006, 23:37

I still have my eye on you Sasaki.:inquisitive:

Well, eye have my I on you Csar, so there.

Csargo

10-28-2006, 23:38

Well, eye have my I on you Csar, so there.

That's nice 2 know:beam:

Husar

10-29-2006, 00:05

That's nice 2 know:beam:
Gay?:inquisitive:

Any way, I am still curious of Don, I still do not believe he is that much of a noob and since his noobish posts have decreased, his posts got smalller I think.
And before I miss the deadline I will Vote: Don Corleone again simply because I am still not convinced of his innocence and because I cannot sense any good alternatives, the kind of suspicion that got Kommodus lynched has been proven wrong and to be serious, I didn't believe in it and still don't.

Csargo

10-29-2006, 00:26

Gay?:inquisitive:

Are you? It's ok if you are I don't care. :laugh4:

Alright my vote goes to Don Corleone. I mean come on how hard is it to read the rules on the first page? Come on man. I think it's the perfect cover for a Mafioso to be playing dumb. But I think his plan back fired and it's garnered him more suspicion than he thought it would. So that's where my vote goes.

Vote: Don Corleone

Sir Moody

10-29-2006, 00:33

i am not very good at surviving these mafia games am i :help:

anyway you may notice that i voted for Don C every round - so its possible iwas killed to protect a mafia member or even the godfather as i had intended to keep voting Don C since he out of all of us was acting very very very odd - RTWguru was also on the "what the hell is he up to" list i made but no point trying to work it out now :dizzy2: good luck all

AVENGE ME BROTHERS!!!!

:skull:

Evil_Maniac From Mars

10-29-2006, 00:47

Vote: Abstain

For now...

Myrddraal

10-29-2006, 00:57

you may notice that i voted for Don C

Thats interesting. I say that because my initial reaction was - well that's an obvious frame, surely... but it depends. Isn't this Don's first game, and he's been displaying a lot of ignorance of the way the game works (even if some of it is put on).

So we're left with two (or three) possibilities:

1. Don C is mafia, he decided to get back at Sir Moody without realising that this would be picked up on.

2. The mafia tried to frame Don C by going for Sir Moody

(3. I'm barking up the wrong tree, however I don't like option 3, everything should be considered and added to the Grand Scales of Justice (tm) :knight:)

Unfortunately, I think 1 and 2 are equally likely... 1 seems very possible, but then again, what are the chances that a more experienced mafioso wouldn't tell him what he was doing? 2 also seems possible, but it seems like a clumsy frame... I figure that after all these mafia games, simple frames like that surely don't work anymore?

Also did anyone else notice this:

and a Cessna Skyhawk flew into view.

Reminds me of Osmium and as such should be thoroughly ignored.
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&resnum=0&q=Cessna%20Skyhawk&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=wi

@ Dutch Guy

Which would confirm him as an innocent then, wouldn't it.
Well hes dead now, so yes... I feel like I'm missing something.

Vote: Don C
Because he's highest on my suspicious list. There isn't one thing which makes me suspicious of him, its the sum total of all the little things.

EDIT:

This leaves us with:
Cowhead418 (Voted first time only)
Sasaki Kojiro (voted Drisos each time)
Crazed Rabbit (first time only)
Dutch_guy (second time only, as the others below him)
Seamus Fermanagh
GeneralHankerchief
Divine Wind
BKS
Don Corleone
Csar

Interesting thought Crazed. We could rule out all the round 2 only people though.

And that leaves us with:

Cowhead418
Sasaki Kojiro
Crazed Rabbit

CR suggests this theory, Sasaki then goes to say almost anyone but him can't be suspected because of this. That leaves an interesting situation. Is is possible that CR is onto something and Sasaki is being very clever (it would be like him :wink:). Is it possible that CR and Sasaki are in it together? Seems unlikely... and then we're left with Cowhead. I'm not sure what to make of this, Sasaki and Cowhead seem to come of worse for this evidence, but not much (either due to a very good false defence by Sasaki, or by way of actually being innocent). You could go around and around...

Don Corleone

10-29-2006, 00:57

It must be me. I'm the mafia in every game I play in. Just lynch me the first round and get it over with. :dizzy2:

Okay, as hard as this is to believe, yes, the first day... I really was that dumb. With an infant punching keys while I'm trying to read posts, it gets pretty confusing. Not to mention, the rules aren't really that clear.

Once everybody started laughing and saying "What a clown, there's no way he's this dumb" I thought "Crap, my image is going downhill fast". So I started hamming it up (which is why I got dumber and more frequent for a while).

Go ahead and lynch me. If the mafia has 1/2 a brain, they'll drop to 1 kill for a few rounds, just to convince you all that you nailed one of them. Then, when they pass the 1/2 way mark, when it's most likely too late, two of you will start dying again.

I know I'm not the mafia, so I'm not going to do anything dumb like voting for myself.

Vote: Dutch Guy

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 01:04

Vote:Myrddraal for poor logic that sounds reasonable, the worst enemy of the town.

Myrddraal

10-29-2006, 01:11

Vote:Myrddraal for poor logic that sounds reasonable, the worst enemy of the town.

Well I'm sorry, I'll stop trying :sad:

Unvote:Don C
Vote:Abstain

Give me something better to go by, and I'll bow to you, until then I'll leave you with this: I've never heard of a worse reason to vote for someone than for trying.

EDIT: Anyway, what's wrong with my logic? I've tried to consider everything, what have I missed? Point out something wrong with my logic, rather than simply say "that's poor logic". I'm a little hurt, and also very suspicious. You post a one liner insulting my attempts, then vote for me. That is highly highly suspicious. Until you tell me what on earth you're trying to do:

Unvote:Abstain
Vote:Sasaki

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 01:14

I'm sorry no offense meant, but your post looked exactly like the things I used to post when I was in the mafia in Godfather part 1. There's some substance there, it makes some sense, and other people will pick up and vote based on it. It was looking a whole lot like Don was going to be lynched with no discussion this round.

Myrddraal

10-29-2006, 01:17

It was looking a whole lot like Don was going to be lynched with no discussion this round.
And this would have been a good thing?
:inquisitive:

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 01:26

And this would have been a good thing?
:inquisitive:

No! Bad. That's why I voted you to derail the bandwagon. Don C was a popular vote choice last couple rounds, the mafia will naturally try and lynch him this round. I foresaw a bunch of "I agree with Myrddraal vote don" posts.

Myrddraal

10-29-2006, 01:34

No! Bad. That's why I voted you to derail the bandwagon. Don C was a popular vote choice last couple rounds, the mafia will naturally try and lynch him this round. I foresaw a bunch of "I agree with Myrddraal vote don" posts.

:laugh4: Ok I see what you're getting at. However, I know you may think I'm laying my head on the chopping block here, I'm still leaning towards Don C (as soon as you unvote me that is... :inquisitive:)

He is highest on my suspicious list, and you're above average yourself I'm afraid. Come to think of it, Don Corleone's best defence in this game has been that nobody has stepped up to defend him. This is something I didn't consider at all, and it is quite a redeeming fact.

So I won't vote Don C this round, his suspiciousness has fallen for me, and actually so has yours Sasaki. That little bit of discussion was refreshing, and more of the same is our best hope.

Edit:

Unvote:Sasaki
Vote:Abstain
for now... I must consider things...

Edit2:
PS, it's also refreshing to talk to someone who consitently spells my pseudonym correctly :bow:

Xiahou

10-29-2006, 01:39

Vote: Don C

He's been acting like mafia all game long.... I mean really. :wall:

No! Bad. That's why I voted you to derail the bandwagon. Don C was a popular vote choice last couple rounds, the mafia will naturally try and lynch him this round. I foresaw a bunch of "I agree with Myrddraal vote don" posts.Sometimes people are suspicious because they are mafia.

Byzantine Mercenary

10-29-2006, 01:54

im dead! well my fault for not coming on for two days which is also why i missed almost being killed, what happened there?

Don Corleone

10-29-2006, 01:59

Okay, not that I don't appreciate Sasaki's pro bono defense work, but let me ask you all this. The mafia wants the clearly innocent dead first. They want to keep very suspicious characters that they know aren't one of theirs alive. Hmm...

Unvote: Dutch Guy
Vote: Sasaki

Sorry, Sasaki, but I've learned there's no such thing as good fortune or goodwill in this game.

Myrddraal

10-29-2006, 02:02

Don Corleone

10-29-2006, 02:08

Vote: Don C

He's been acting like mafia all game long.... I mean really. :wall:

Sometimes people are suspicious because they are mafia.

Believe it or not, mi amigo, its your accusation and Husar's that have me convinced that the 2 of you are innocent. But if the detective is out there, don't blow your cover by investegating and exonerating me. Investegate Sasaki.

Crazed Rabbit

10-29-2006, 02:28

Vote: Sasaki

He thinks we can rule out the second round voters, I know I'm innocent and he could well have been chosen by the Godfather for being so able at controlling a game. And I don't suspect Cowhead as much.

CR

GeneralHankerchief

10-29-2006, 02:33

Sasaki, that's twice now that your first votes in one round have been insulting little one-liners that really say nothing. After you're called on it, you hastily bring forth the logic.

My question is: Why not use the full logic in the first posts? Unless of course, there's ulterior motive.

Vote: Abstain

It's not enough to warrant a vote. But I do have my eye on you.

Csargo

10-29-2006, 02:40

Vote:Myrddraal for poor logic that sounds reasonable, the worst enemy of the town.

:inquisitive:

Unvote: Don C
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

My gosh man I can't let you get away now. Man I can't believe this.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 02:53

Interesting, interesting. I see some people haven't yet grasped the principles of getting discussion going. (hint:being slightly insulting and accusatory works wonders)

Unvote:Myrddraal
Vote:Sigurd

I wasn't too suspicious of your argument against Kommodus round 1. But I am very surprised that no one has voted you yet this round. I believe if you were innocent there would have been some attempt by the mafia to get you lynched, you even said yourself "lynch me next round if I'm wrong".

2nd thing was Crazed Rabbits lengthy post. Drisos is proved innocent he says, so those who argued against him could be guilty. He completely fails to mention that Kommodus has been proved innocent as well, by his own logic Sigurd is far more likely to be mafia than anyone from round one. This strikes me as an attempt to take suspicion away from Sigurd.

@DC: the mafia likes suspicious people because they make easy lynches. Not lynching the suspicious people would defeat the point. And yes, there is pro bono in this game, any good townie will defend someone they think is innocent.

@GH: I like to see what they have too say for themselves first. Two posts for the price of one as it were.

@Crazed: As I said, why not Sigurd?

@Csar: you always vote for me no surprises there :tongue3:

Oh and before anyone says "well now you are trying to get sigurd lynched", 2 things: first I said they would have tried before now, and 2nd I'm not trying to get anyone lynched just trying to make discussion.

Crazed Rabbit

10-29-2006, 02:54

Good point about Sigurd. I'll vote for him next round though.

CR

Xiahou

10-29-2006, 02:57

the mafia likes suspicious people because they make easy lynches. Not lynching the suspicious people would defeat the point. And yes, there is pro bono in this game, any good townie will defend someone they think is innocent.That's foolish- if you're stated policy is to not vote for suspicious people then the mafia has free reign and can even act overtly suspicious because you'll defend them for it.

I'm not yet changing my vote- but I am beginning to suspect we're being deliberately misled by you.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 03:03

That's foolish- if you're stated policy is to not vote for suspicious people then the mafia has free reign and can even act overtly suspicious because you'll defend them for it.

I'm not yet changing my vote- but I am beginning to suspect we're being deliberately misled by you.

I don't think he's acting suspicious, but it's obvious others percieve him as such.

Edit: btw Myrdraal, I meant the "poor logic that sounds reasonabl" is the worst enemy of the town, not you...

GeneralHankerchief

10-29-2006, 03:04

Interesting, interesting. I see some people haven't yet grasped the principles of getting discussion going. (hint:being slightly insulting and accusatory works wonders)

...

@GH: I like to see what they have too say for themselves first. Two posts for the price of one as it were.

Oh and before anyone says "well now you are trying to get sigurd lynched", 2 things: first I said they would have tried before now, and 2nd I'm not trying to get anyone lynched just trying to make discussion.

Sorry, I'm not convinced. You, sir, seem far too lynch-happy. If you want discussion going why don't you just publicly accuse people without voting for them?

Three people who you've voted so far based on "starting discussion" are myself, Myrddraal, and Sigurd. While I am suspicious of Sigurd now, it's far more suspicious that the people you vote for are two experienced players and one person who is new but fast grasping the game. You want to take out the threats.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 03:11

Sorry, I'm not convinced. You, sir, seem far too lynch-happy. If you want discussion going why don't you just publicly accuse people without voting for them?

Three people who you've voted so far based on "starting discussion" are myself, Myrddraal, and Sigurd. While I am suspicious of Sigurd now, it's far more suspicious that the people you vote for are two experienced players and one person who is new but fast grasping the game. You want to take out the threats.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

https://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2158/emotpsyduckvv0.gif

Lynch-happy? That would be defined as trying to get people lynched. I went out of my way to stop someone from being lynched. You on the other hand, just put the 4th vote on me putting me well in the lead. So who is lynch-happy?

Voting someone ensures they respond. It has nothing to do with getting them lynched.

I honestly don't recall voting for you. Also again: you say it's suspicious that I'm voting for the experienced players while you yourself vote me.

As a mafioso, you don't try to take out the threats during voting. You kill them. The people who are threats are usually also good at defending themselves. You go for the easy lynches (don) or the popular lynches...like, say, me.

You're making yourself look pretty suspicious here, bud.

Unvote:Sigurd
Vote:GeneralHankerchief

This is exactly the reason I try and start up discussion. Someone is bound to make a suspicious post eventually.

Don Corleone

10-29-2006, 03:15

While Sasaki makes some great points on the Sigurd issue, in reality, CR didn't make his Drisos accuser argument to throw suspicion off of Sigurd, he just made it.

Now, I have to disagree with Sasaki on two points: 1) that the mafia wants guilty looking (though really innocent) people to get lynched and 2) that a townie would defend somebody as guilty looking as I currently am, even if they really did think I was innocent.

On point 1), the mafia want to get the absolutely innocent lynched. Or, they want to whack them next round. Innocent people drag the mafia's odds down, as it gives them a smaller field of guilty looking folks to hide among. Guilty looking people (but innocent) though muddy the waters, allowing them to hide better.

Next, 2) what townie in his right mind would stick his neck out for somebody that's so far gone (granted, by first my own ignorance, then by my misguided efforts to coverup). Even if you thought I was innocent, you'd surely realize I'd be too far gone to save. You say, any townie would do it for somebody they know to be innocent. But there's no way you could possibly know that I'm innocent. Husar and Xiahou are acting reasonably. You on the other hand are acting like you're protecting an asset.

The most likely scenario in me getting lynched is that the mafia will stop killing one person a round for a couple of rounds, to throw up a screen. You're one of the best players, surely you'd know this. You'd also know that when that happens, you'd stick out like a sore thumb, as it would appear you defended, vehemently, a guilty man, and you'd be next on the block. The only way you could feel safe to defend me is if you know you can control the number of killings in the next round. If you defend me, and your defense is unsuccessful and I get lynched, you tell your cohorts to kill two, to exonerate you.

No, you're trying to line up a patsy for later use.

Death Match

10-29-2006, 03:21

Whatever. I suspect one of you will be the detective and Mafia will find out soon!! Ha ha. Not really. I'm no fan of the Mafia, but I suspect Sasaki.

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 03:28

While Sasaki makes some great points on the Sigurd issue, in reality, CR didn't make his Drisos accuser argument to throw suspicion off of Sigurd, he just made it.

Entirely possible of course.

On point 1), the mafia want to get the absolutely innocent lynched. Or, they want to whack them next round. Innocent people drag the mafia's odds down, as it gives them a smaller field of guilty looking folks to hide among. Guilty looking people (but innocent) though muddy the waters, allowing them to hide better.

As a former mafioso I can tell you you are way off base here. As mafia you avoid accusing those who seem innocent. That makes you look guilty because everyone believes you are incorrect. If you accuse the guilty looking you'll blend in with the townies who are accusing that person as well.

"Lynch a townie, any townie, just please god lynch a townie" is what the mafia is thinking.

Next, 2) what townie in his right mind would stick his neck out for somebody that's so far gone (granted, by first my own ignorance, then by my misguided efforts to coverup). Even if you thought I was innocent, you'd surely realize I'd be too far gone to save. You say, any townie would do it for somebody they know to be innocent. But there's no way you could possibly know that I'm innocent. Husar and Xiahou are acting reasonably. You on the other hand are acting like you're protecting an asset.

Who said I'm in my right mind? :laugh4:

But really. I think you are innocent. I don't know for sure, but that's how I feel. A responsible townie would try to dissuade people, history has shown this to be true. Last game if you remember, silver, crazed rabbit, and BKS all defended me even though it was clear I would be lynched ("YOU FOOLS KNOW NOT WHAT YOU DO" etc)

The most likely scenario in me getting lynched is that the mafia will stop killing one person a round for a couple of rounds, to throw up a screen. You're one of the best players, surely you'd know this. You'd also know that when that happens, you'd stick out like a sore thumb, as it would appear you defended, vehemently, a guilty man, and you'd be next on the block. The only way you could feel safe to defend me is if you know you can control the number of killings in the next round. If you defend me, and your defense is unsuccessful and I get lynched, you tell your cohorts to kill two, to exonerate you.

No, you're trying to line up a patsy for later use.

huh? So, if you get lynched the mafia will kill 1 person to make you look guilty? They already tried that and no one bought it. I've already explained, with precedent from other games, why I'm defending you. There's no reason to come up with convoluted plots to explain that.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 03:42

Seriously, people, I'm not so bad at playing mafioso that I would bring this much suspicion on myself. I could have lurked this whole round and said I was busy with The Black Hand. Easy peasy.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 04:23

No responses...interesting, especially since several of you are online. Several people just took a jump up in my suspicions. You think you'll get away with quietly letting your vote stand?

Kommodus

10-29-2006, 05:20

I just want to point out that I told you guys I was innocent! Why didn't anyone believe me? :wall:

Oh yeah, and I still see my name on the "alive" list, so... Vote: Sigurd! (***NOTE A VOTE 'CAUSE I'M ACTUALLY DEAD***) :2thumbsup:

Sigurd

10-29-2006, 05:42

I have just come home from a weekend trip... it's 05:40am and I need to get some sleep... Catching up tomorrow later.

Death Match

10-29-2006, 09:04

I'm sorry Kommodos. Come join my game.

Divine Wind

10-29-2006, 10:52

Im not liking this, Sigurd / GHC alliance. It seems to me that you both defend each other rather subtlety. I believe there is some deeper stratagem going on between these two, since from the first round they have quietly hinted that they have been in contact with each other, and voted off each ones enemies like Sasaki this round.

I have just come home from a weekend trip... it's 05:40am and I need to get some sleep... Catching up tomorrow later.

Note: This comment was made at 04:42 by Sigurd.

No responses...interesting, especially since several of you are online. Several people just took a jump up in my suspicions. You think you'll get away with quietly letting your vote stand?

At 03:23, by Sasaki.

Now Sasaki, can you tell us whether Sigurd was one of these people online that didnt post?

If he was, then I would find it suspicious that in one hour and 19 minutes, this is the only post he could come up with. Yes it was early, yes Sigurd was probably tired if really has been away for the weekend, BUT who comes online for five minutes at that time in the morning just to read the mafia thread?

I'll tell you! A Guilty Man!

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

Dutch_guy

10-29-2006, 11:08

Thats interesting. I say that because my initial reaction was - well that's an obvious frame, surely... but it depends. Isn't this Don's first game, and he's been displaying a lot of ignorance of the way the game works (even if some of it is put on).

So we're left with two (or three) possibilities:

1. Don C is mafia, he decided to get back at Sir Moody without realising that this would be picked up on.

2. The mafia tried to frame Don C by going for Sir Moody

(3. I'm barking up the wrong tree, however I don't like option 3, everything should be considered and added to the Grand Scales of Justice (tm) :knight:)

Unfortunately, I think 1 and 2 are equally likely... 1 seems very possible, but then again, what are the chances that a more experienced mafioso wouldn't tell him what he was doing? 2 also seems possible, but it seems like a clumsy frame... I figure that after all these mafia games, simple frames like that surely don't work anymore?

Also did anyone else notice this:

Reminds me of Osmium and as such should be thoroughly ignored.
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&resnum=0&q=Cessna%20Skyhawk&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=wi

@ Dutch Guy

Well hes dead now, so yes... I feel like I'm missing something.

Vote: Don C
Because he's highest on my suspicious list. There isn't one thing which makes me suspicious of him, its the sum total of all the little things.

EDIT:

And that leaves us with:

Cowhead418
Sasaki Kojiro
Crazed Rabbit

CR suggests this theory, Sasaki then goes to say almost anyone but him can't be suspected because of this. That leaves an interesting situation. Is is possible that CR is onto something and Sasaki is being very clever (it would be like him :wink:). Is it possible that CR and Sasaki are in it together? Seems unlikely... and then we're left with Cowhead. I'm not sure what to make of this, Sasaki and Cowhead seem to come of worse for this evidence, but not much (either due to a very good false defence by Sasaki, or by way of actually being innocent). You could go around and around...

Sorry for the late reply, but I had to react to this post, the part which quoted me of course.

Well, you might remember the chaos that ensued when Silver posted the kills a few turns back, it appeared that MRD was killed, but that Byz.merc was also killed. Now I missed the initial confusing, and afterwards thought that the mafia had planned to kill Byz Merc, but had decided to go for MRD. Now, I then proceeded to conclude that Silver's slip up just confirmed Byz Mercs innocence. Sadly, however, Byz Merc had been killed by the mafia, which needless to say also confirmed him innocent, but not In the way I imagined.

All in all, I probably misread the entire thing - as it was pretty confusing.

That clear enough ?

:balloon2:

Dutch_guy

10-29-2006, 11:22

Now Sasaki, can you tell us whether Sigurd was one of these people online that didnt post?

Keep in mind, that he might still have invisible mode on - as that was mandatory in the Black Hand.

So, Sasaki might not have seen anything.

Im not liking this, Sigurd / GHC alliance. It seems to me that you both defend each other rather subtlety. I believe there is some deeper stratagem going on between these two, since from the first round they have quietly hinted that they have been in contact with each other, and voted off each ones enemies like Sasaki this round.

Well, GeneralH hasn't been posting as much as last games, that's what got my attention. Plus, he would be one of my choices as a mafioso, a good enough player to not make any stupid mistakes. Plus a player that as his role as hoster, probably knows more about the mafia, and corresponding tactics, than he might make public.

For now, I'm not voting for anyone just yet - I'm waiting to see what GeneralH has to say.

Vote:Abstain.

:balloon2:

Husar

10-29-2006, 12:09

BUT who comes online for five minutes at that time in the morning just to read the mafia thread?
I would.:juggle2:

On point 1), the mafia want to get the absolutely innocent lynched. Or, they want to whack them next round. Innocent people drag the mafia's odds down, as it gives them a smaller field of guilty looking folks to hide among. Guilty looking people (but innocent) though muddy the waters, allowing them to hide better.
Another good point to keep my vote for now, though many think you are suspicious, almost all changed their vote back and you seem to survive again, in case you really are mafia, this is very bad.

Husar and Xiahou are acting reasonably.
You're basically defending your worst enemies, maybe hoping to finally make friends? The understanding you show to your enemies is the only consistent line I noticed in your posting so far.

I want to break a spear for Sasaki here, I might be way off but my stomach tells me he is not necessarily guilty in this game, I grew some antipathy against him before which is one of the worst things one can do right next to sympathy. I now get the feeling that peoples' antipathy is triggered every time Sasaki makes a longer post though I do not see exactly why he should post that much anymore if it only makes him suspicious anyway, I actually believe him there, for now.

Whatever. I suspect one of you will be the detective and Mafia will find out soon!! Ha ha. Not really. I'm no fan of the Mafia, but I suspect Sasaki.

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

I'm sorry Kommodos. Come join my game.
He's either playing U-Boot or he may even be guilty, another one ignored by many.

Death Match

10-29-2006, 12:28

Husar

10-29-2006, 13:04

It seems obvious to me that you people are actually thinking of blaming people who are innocent now. As you see, Kommodos was not guilty after all. I haven't been reading carefully here, but I see that Sasaki Kojiro could be guilty as he is good at making people go the wrong direction. The funny thing is, Myrrdraal and Sasaki are trying to tell us that each other is the guilty one. Why?

This is a common, yet still sneaky, trick used by Mafiosi to convince us that they are both innocent. Yet, they still find way of avoiding the other's death by later merely suggesting that someone else maybe the mafioso!

Tell me, how suspicious do I look? Yet, I could hold some secret. But nobody suspects. Well, rest be informed, the only way to win against the brutal enemy, Mafia, is to No-Lynch for the moment.

Unvote: Sasaki Kojiro
Vote: No-Lynch
1. it's Kommodus, not Kommodos

2. saying Sasaki may be guilty because he is good at deception is about as good as saying Kommodus might be mafia because he was/is/may be good at finding them

3. Are you saying Sasaki and Myrddral might be both guilty but we better not vote for any of them?

4. do you have any explanation why we should not lynch except that you say so?

5. You're about the only one here who consistently tries to create a we vs. them attitude here while of course putting yourself into the we group, this could be a lame attempt at covering your mafia identity

Now I told you how suspicious you look.
:bow:

Don Corleone

10-29-2006, 13:38

You're basically defending your worst enemies, maybe hoping to finally make friends? The understanding you show to your enemies is the only consistent line I noticed in your posting so far.

I've written myself off for lost and I'm chalking this game up as a learning experience. BUT, one thing I have learned... always look to motive. I used you as an example of the way a regular townie (granted an overly suspicious one) would probably act. At best, they just wouldn't say anything about me at all. Launching a Perry Mason style defense, such as Sasaki has done for me, makes me ask why?

Don't forget, Sasaki is really taking a huge chance defending me. Let's say I get lynched and the mafia decide to employ the kill one person trick (and Sasaki, it didn't not work the first time, they just moved away from it)... the mafia could kill Sasaki any time they wanted to, just by pointing to his rabid defense of me and then noting that the killings stopped when I died. Poof, Sasaki is gone too.

The only way it would be safe for him to tread this path is if he knows for certain that the mafia won't kill just one person next round. There's only one way he could know that.

And I still go back to my original question of why? I admit, I played the game badly for the first few rounds, and it makes me look unrecoverably guilty (I suspect Xiahou is going to default to me as mafia every time we play now, I've made such an impression). BUT! Sasaki seems convinced of my innocence. Why?

Husar

10-29-2006, 14:16

BUT! Sasaki seems convinced of my innocence. Why?
Well, you both seem to say that the mafia like to hide in a forest of suspicious people and you are suspicious.
One might say now that if they hide in a forest, we should just chop down the forest and they either are left in the open or get chopped in the process.
This leads me back to RTWGuru who wants to stop the chopping without giving any reason except that he says so.

GeneralHankerchief

10-29-2006, 14:42

I honestly don't recall voting for you

You voted for me in the first round, immediately after I abstained. You want to prevent an abstention? :inquisitive:

Voting someone ensures they respond. It has nothing to do with getting them lynched.

When I vote, it’s either because I think they’re a mafioso or I believe that the person with the most votes is innocent. Not because I want to see them respond. If I wanted that, I would abstain while posting my suspicions, as I did with you earlier. You then responded, I saw some errors in your reasoning so I grew more convinced that you were a mafioso and voted for you.

Also again: you say it's suspicious that I'm voting for the experienced players while you yourself vote me.

I’m well aware of that fact. But the thing here is I called you on it first.

EDIT:

Im not liking this, Sigurd / GHC alliance. It seems to me that you both defend each other rather subtlety. I believe there is some deeper stratagem going on between these two, since from the first round they have quietly hinted that they have been in contact with each other, and voted off each ones enemies like Sasaki this round.

Well, GeneralH hasn't been posting as much as last games, that's what got my attention. Plus, he would be one of my choices as a mafioso, a good enough player to not make any stupid mistakes. Plus a player that as his role as hoster, probably knows more about the mafia, and corresponding tactics, than he might make public.

For now, I'm not voting for anyone just yet - I'm waiting to see what GeneralH has to say.

I don't think I've been less active - if I have, chalk it up to the fact that this week was a particularly painful one in school. As for revealing mafia tactics, I just did, but Sasaki seems to disagree.

Finally, my alliance with Sigurd: Where did this one come from? Yes, he told me in the chat about Kommodus' PM, but we are both chat regs and Mafia comes up a lot in there. The fact that there were two kills this round places immediate suspicion on him, because he was the main attacker of Kommodus. But Sasaki seems even more suspicious.

Cowhead418

10-29-2006, 15:12

I'm going to Vote: RTWGuru. Why? He's made several suspicious posts and yet seems to keep a tone to these posts that makes him ignored by nearly everyone. Seriously, if you are even half-certain that either Sasaki or Myrd is mafia, then why would you want to not lynch? How exactly would that help the town? To me, this seems like a miscalculated mistake by you, and you are trying too hard to appear innocent by voting no lynch. I don't buy it, care to explain yourself?

Drisos

10-29-2006, 17:35

Vote off RTWGuru! Leave Sasaki alive!

Oh right... I'm dead..:skull: well..:juggle2:

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 21:27

Dutch_guy

10-29-2006, 21:44

Upon furthur analysis, Crazed Rabbit, GeneralHankerchief, and Don Corleone are the 3 mafiosos, with Crazed Rabbit being Godfather.

Myrddraal, Sigurd, and Seamus have all raised my suspicions but I can't link them together particularly...

I'll post my evidence soon but for now, Unvote:GeneralH, Vote:Don Corleone although I'm still ahead in votes 4:3 with half an hour left...

Hmm well, from what I've read in the thread thus far, Don Corleone seems to be an innocent towny, albeit a slightly un experienced one. His ignorance on some parts of the game seems genuine...

GeneralH, however, I find to act a bit more suspicious than in other games, don't know why it just seems that way. Crazed Rabbit has also been a bit less active than he normally is, a bit too much of those anonymous 3 line max posts. I'd like to hear him on that.

:balloon2:

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 22:18

Ok, game starts and GH tries to get people to abstain:

Vote: Abstain

This will most likely be changed depending on conversation.

And finds my calling him on this suspicious.

Don Corleone also argues in favor of it in a lengthy post. He eventually sees reason and random votes Crazed Rabbit.

Crazed Rabbit then posts this:
*At Crazed Rabbit's Tree and Gleann Pub, CR hears the recent news and stops eating his steak*

What's this Don?

I'm getting voted to be lynched (to death, you know!) because of a random number system?!

Of all the farfetched reasons...

Now, I can understand that you're new and all, and I can forgive the 'lets not lynch anyone' and other errors.

But this? This I cannot forgive.

Vote: Don Corleone

You broke my heart, Don, you broke my heart.

Isn't that nice. After all, mafia wouldn't vote for eachother, would they? But don't worry, they unvote eachother quite quickly.

GeneralH then starts to try and get clues from the mafia kills (the kind of clues that the mafia always plant) and his suspicion list points to (surprise) Myself, Divine Wind, and Ignoramus. Myrddraal agrees with him which is one of the reasons he's on my list. He also questions whether the CoP will be replaced, as if he is questioning whether it would be to the mafia's advantage to lynch Divine Wind now.

Just a thought for those voting DW. If we lynch the CoP will he be replaced? If not, we probably don't want to go about killing him just yet.

Silver?

Crazed Rabbit now Unvotes Don and jumps on the Drisos wagon.

Don Corleone then makes another quite suspicious post. He calls out Proletariat and Xiahou for basing things off of lemurs argument, while neglecting to mention that Myrddraal and GeneralH brought it up as well. Interesting.

Sigurd agrees with him and mentions that they are both using invisibility mode.

Don brings up the Proletariat and Xiahou suspicions again, and makes the suggestion that all those who are posting are innocent.

He then attempts to cast suspicion on me:

-Is it just me or is Sasaki trying very hard to lead the group. To where...?

Which is odd considering his pm to me around the same time:

Kinda goes without saying that I'm pretty damned sure that you're not mafia.

Especially odd considering he has voted for me this round. The only way he could be sure I'm innocent is if he's mafia.

Then comes the mangled kill posting by Silver. Don, Crazed Rabbit, and Myrddraal are all confused by this. From past games I think we can see that the mafia are likely to comment in this situation.

Sigurd posts that he has reason to suspect Kommodus. Remember that it is in the mafia's best interest to lynch Kommodus rather than Kill him because if he's killed he's proved innocent and can still work against him.

Crazed Rabbit and Myrddraal immedietly question his claim (voting would be seen as suspicious). GeneralH is "convinced" by Sigurd in chat and votes Kommodus.

Sigurd explains his argument which is very sketchy. Myrddraal votes for Kommodus while questioning those who vote for Kommodus :inquisitive:

Seamus votes Kommodus without giving a reason. This and he general change in posting stile from cosa nuova make me suspect him.https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/editpost.php

Don Corleone immedietly tries to get Sigurd lynched following Kommodus' death (something mentioned earlier by Myrddraal):

This is messed up. The mafia is screwing with us. There's no way we've nailed two of them. I doubt we've even nailed one. Talk about cheesy tricks. Okay, sorry Sigfurd, just too obvious. "Trust you, and all the mafia go away" and then they all do?

Vote: Sigfurd

Crazed Rabbit then posts a long list of who voted for Drisos while ignoring the 2nd round and Sigurd. Oddly enough, I'm the only one on his list who voted for Drisos each time.

Myrddraal votes Don c on poor evidence, and agrees with crazed that I look guilty by that evidence.

Don continues his habit from last round of voting for someone who hasn't been posting much.

I call Myrddraal on his post and he quickly votes me. Notice that he unvotes don and votes me while saying "anyway, what's wrong with my logic? I've tried to consider everything, what have I missed? " So he thinks his logic voting for Don is good but he unvotes him?

Don, Crazed Rabbit, and GeneralHankerchief all jump on the Sasaki wagon https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gif

They see a chance to lynch me and go for it. I answer all of their accusations but they quietly leave their vote on me and sit watching the thread doing nothing.

I'll finish this up in a bit...Myrddraal is looking more suspicious than GeneralH at this moment.

Drisos

10-29-2006, 22:19

Someone vote Don Corleone immediately, please!

I received a PM of him... at first I tought it proved his innocence.. but I think that's what he tried to achieve, seen the fact I post the names of those I suspect and those I think are innocent sometimes, while I'm dead.

Lynch him.

Next turn, Lynch Crazed Rabbit. If you don't win, lynch Sasaki. But I highly doubt that.

Good luck!:sweatdrop:

:book:

Silver Rusher

10-29-2006, 22:22

*****Voting Closed*****

Drisos

10-29-2006, 22:25

*****Voting Closed*****

Crap. Sasaki is lynched instead. Well. Lynch Don Corleone or Crazed Rabbit next turn. Preferably Crazed Rabbit.

The mafia will probably return to the 'one-kill-each-round' strategy, to have us think Sasaki was mafia, so people won't vote off the ones he named as Mafia.

Sigurd

10-29-2006, 22:26

I am not ahead as lynch candidate? But Sasaki is?
Where is the logic?

Since my last drama torch (see the accusation of Kommodus), I have been out.. Yes, I actually left the computer for nearly two full days and took my wife out for a good time. It was daylight saving too this weekend and we got an extra hour to enjoy ourselves. That was probably why the times got mixed up DW.

These games do need a little drama to stay interesting and more of you should chip in.
Did my stunt ferret out any suspicious behaviour? Did you see anything?
I came up with nothing except theRTWGuru’s little Reeinkster hints.

Sasaki actually gave us a great method of reasoning; if you were Godfather who would you choose as your henchmen? Nobody actually picket up on this. It would be funny to see if anyone particular derailed this line of thought.
Kommodus would have been high on several lists I imagine.
Now who would I have chosen if I were Godfather? A lot of names come to mind. You have the great veteran mafia players like Kommodus, Sasaki, GH, Cowhead and CR.
If the Godfather is an inexperienced player he/she would probably get one of them onboard.
If the Godfather is experienced he/she would probably take fresh blood on.
If I where Godfather my short list would have included Proletariat, Myrddraal and Seamus.
None of them have been mafia before and they seem like intelligent players.
Then you have the new players Don C, Husar and MRD who most of us know from before and could sway favourably in the selection process.
Then you have the players we don’t really know (speaking for myself) like theRTWGuru, Ultrawar, Byzantine Mercenary and Peasant Phill. I guess taking in unknown players would pose a risk.

As I mentioned earlier Sasakiis leading the tally, but I think he is the genuine townie in this game.
We need to lynch someone and it does take a bandwagon to do so.
To counter the Sasaki BW I’ll join the Don C BW because he would be a good candidate (even after many votes) for the Godfather.

Vote:Don C

[edit]: Silver, you got to extend this voting as there has been some problems getting pages in the .org up. This is my first successful attempt since around 9pm. (it's now 10:30pm)

Drisos

10-29-2006, 22:46

[edit]: Silver, you got to extend this voting as there has been some problems getting pages in the .org up. This is my first successful attempt since around 9pm. (it's now 10:30pm)

.org has been running fine for me... :inquisitive: However if you really had such problems, your vote should be included... which woul bring a tie... :book:

Sigurd

10-29-2006, 22:51

8 people has not voted at all and it could be that some of them experienced similar problems as I did.

I kept trying though because I had already typed up my reply.

GeneralHankerchief

10-29-2006, 22:52

Don, Crazed Rabbit, and GeneralHankerchief all jump on the Sasaki wagon https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gif

They see a chance to lynch me and go for it. I answer all of their accusations but they quietly leave their vote on me and sit watching the thread doing nothing.

In being so quick to gallantly name the "three mafiosi" you did not respond to my latest defense of your accusations. You call that "quietly leaving [my] vote on [you]?"

And I don't hear you saying anything about the people who voted for the Don. I guess because they're working to save you, they're exempt from the bandwagon rule, huh?

Silver Rusher

10-29-2006, 22:53

Evening in the Gameroom.

The abandoned quarry just off Route 405 seemed to Chief of Police Divine Wind as the perfect place to execute Sasaki Kojiro. He was to be stoned, and the quarry was full of stones both small and large.

SK was actually at home listening to AC/DC when DW arrived at his house to pick him up. DW ran with full force into Sasaki's front door, but it was no use. It was hard as a rock. DW tried again several times, failing again each time. He then noticed a fly on the wall, which got off and flew into the wide open front room window right next to him.

"Strange. I didn't notice that." DW mused, before climbing in. It was a tight squeeze, but DW kept a stiff upper lip the whole time. He fell through and made a huge noise.

Obviously, Sasaki knew all this was coming, but even so he stayed in the next room listening to his music. What was the rush? He was going to be caught either way. Might as well listen to more of his favourite band beforehand.

DW burst in and grabbed Sasaki. Without any resistance he was handcuffed and blindfolded. He was dragged through the house, knocking over several of the precious vases that Sasaki had collected, out of the house, and loaded into a van. The van drove off.

Later...

The van door opened and Sasaki was pulled out. He stood, wondering where he was. He must have been outside, and he could hear whispers of people.

"3, 2, 1... GO!"

The blindfold was removed and Sasaki was able to catch a glimpse of the trees, the birds, the beautiful quarry and, of course, the angry mob hurling rocks at him before the stones hit several vital organs and he collapsed on the ground. Dead.

Tally:
Sasaki Kojiro - 4 votes (GeneralHankerchief, Csar, Crazed Rabbit, Don Corleone) :skull:
Abstain - 3 (Dutch_guy, Myrddraal, Evil_Maniac From Mars)
Don Corleone - 2 votes (Xiahou, Husar)
Sigurd Fafnesbane - 1 vote (Divine Wind)
GeneralHankerchief - 1 vote (Sasaki Kojiro)
theRTWGuru - 1 vote (Cowhead418)
No Lynch - 1 vote (theRTWGuru)
No vote - 7 (Masy, Big King Sanctaphrax, Proletariat, Seamus Fernanagh, Ignoramus, Peasant Phill, Destroyer of Hope)

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro

Still alive:
Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
Cowhead418
Dutch_guy
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Destroyer of Hope
theRTWGuru
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

PMs please.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 23:01

In being so quick to gallantly name the "three mafiosi" you did not respond to my latest defense of your accusations. You call that "quietly leaving [my] vote on [you]?"

It took you some time. Also it went like this:

You accused me with some arguments.

I pointed out that your arguments applied more strongly to you than me.

You did not dispute this in your reply.

And I don't hear you saying anything about the people who voted for the Don. I guess because they're working to save you, they're exempt from the bandwagon rule, huh?

You mean...husar and Xiahou? They've suspected Don for a while. In Xiahous case it was because of that PM Don sent him. The only other vote on Don is my own, and I have ample reasoning.

Remember, bandwagoning is when a significant part of your reason for voting someone is that they already have votes on them.

Also you people should consider this: in the Godfather pt1, GeneralH selected one experienced player and one new player. Avoided putting all his eggs in one basket as it were. It's likely the godfather has taken the same strategy this time, choosing Don C and Myrddraal.

GeneralHankerchief

10-29-2006, 23:02

Silver, as much as it pains me to say this, I think your tally's wrong. The Don has more votes than that, and you don't include Sigurd or Husar's vote anywhere (not even in "didn't vote")

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 23:06

SK was actually at home listening to AC/DC

https://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4782/emotrockjy8.gif

GeneralHankerchief

10-29-2006, 23:08

It took you some time. Also it went like this:

You accused me with some arguments.

I pointed out that your arguments applied more strongly to you than me.

You did not dispute this in your reply.

You mean...husar and Xiahou? They've suspected Don for a while. In Xiahous case it was because of that PM Don sent him. The only other vote on Don is my own, and I have ample reasoning.

Remember, bandwagoning is when a significant part of your reason for voting someone is that they already have votes on them.

:wall:

So first of all, you're not going to respond to my defense because I didn't post them... right away?

:wall:

You're right, I didn't dispute them in my reply. Instead I just pointed out how your logic was wrong.

:wall:

Silver Rusher

10-29-2006, 23:08

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 23:11

:wall:

So first of all, you're not going to respond to my defense because I didn't post them... right away?

:wall:

You're right, I didn't dispute them in my reply. Instead I just pointed out how your logic was wrong.

:wall:

https://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4646/emotraiseum5.gif

You were sitting watching the thread for quite some time, and only posted your reply when I called you on it. And you showed no such thing. "I accused you first" doesn't lend any creedence to your accusation.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 23:12

I was wondering how long it would be before somebody pointed out a flaw in my post.

EDIT: I made a mistake with Husar, I admit, but the reason Sigurd isn't included is because he made his vote after I closed the votes. Because of this I didn't include him in the no votes section either (just to be fair).

It's fixed now.

I voted for Don as well https://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6489/emoteng101gi6.gif

Holy ****, when did I pass 4,000?? And how did I not notice? Whoah.

GeneralHankerchief

10-29-2006, 23:20

https://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4646/emotraiseum5.gif

You were sitting watching the thread for quite some time, and only posted your reply when I called you on it. And you showed no such thing. "I accused you first" doesn't lend any creedence to your accusation.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I still responded, didn't I? Bottom line is, you didn't directly reply to it. :dizzy2:

And why does it not lend any credence to my accusation? If you haven't noticed, my votes were for abstention, Drisos, abstention, and you. Only 1 out of my 4 votes were for "threats."

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 23:25

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I still responded, didn't I? Bottom line is, you didn't directly reply to it. :dizzy2:

And why does it not lend any credence to my accusation? If you haven't noticed, my votes were for abstention, Drisos, abstention, and you. Only 1 out of my 4 votes were for "threats."

Because you tried to get out of responding. You can't deny that. As for replying to your post, you made it at 9:42. I don't get up that early on weekends :p As you no doubt noticed, my posting energy was devoted elsewhere.

You were focused on one person, that's all.

GeneralHankerchief

10-29-2006, 23:33

Because you tried to get out of responding. You can't deny that. As for replying to your post, you made it at 9:42. I don't get up that early on weekends :p As you no doubt noticed, my posting energy was devoted elsewhere.

You were focused on one person, that's all.

Uh, no. Were you watching when I was replying to the post and then decided not to, because I didn't feel it addressed everything and I wanted to watch TV?

Anyway, wow, you don't get up that early. So what? There was ample time between when I posted and when you said that I just silently kept my vote without responding.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 23:41

Uh, no. Were you watching when I was replying to the post and then decided not to, because I didn't feel it addressed everything and I wanted to watch TV?

No dude, let me explain it to you. When I was mafia last game, as soon as the votes started piling up on Kagemusha I stopped posting. If you keep posting you give your detractors something to argue with. Divine Wind called me on it last game and I'm calling you on it this game.

Anyway, wow, you don't get up that early. So what? There was ample time between when I posted and when you said that I just silently kept my vote without responding.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1285064&postcount=401

https://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6489/emoteng101gi6.gif

GeneralHankerchief

10-29-2006, 23:51

Waitwaitwait a minute. You're trying to say that the fact that I didn't post before I went to watch TV is enough to lynch me? Come on, dude.

That post does not address my defense.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-29-2006, 23:53

Waitwaitwait a minute. You're trying to say that the fact that I didn't post before I went to watch TV is enough to lynch me? Come on, dude.

That post does not address my defense.

Which defense :inquisitive: oic. With limited time I wanted to do more than address one petty post, I had the whole thread to go through and many arguments to bring. The point is I was actually posting, not watching in waiting, which is what you don't seem to get.

Did you not read my previous post? You are attempting to focus in on one tiny part of my argument against you, and pretending it's my entire argument.

I've even said Myrddraal is more likely than you. Crazed Rabbit, Myrddraal and Don seem the most likely.

GeneralHankerchief

10-30-2006, 00:01

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1284598&postcount=396

If you had the whole thread to go through, surely you didn't miss this one where I clearly responded, but yet still managed to post where we just silently kept our vote, not responding.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 00:03

You aren't even reading my posts anymore...

GeneralHankerchief

10-30-2006, 00:05

How? I'm addressing everything.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 00:08

No you're not. You are trying to distract people from the arguments laid out previously. Too bad, I'm reposting it:

(didn't copy quotes)

GeneralHankerchief

10-30-2006, 00:09

Well, since you never responded to mine, which was posted first, why don't you go ahead?

Don Corleone

10-30-2006, 00:20

Sasaki, your theory has one big hole in it. Doing the math, to nail everyone that suspected you, you've pointed to Mydraal, GeneralHank, Crazed Rabbit, possibly Sigurd and myself. That's 1 1/2 too many. I'm pretty sure we got one this time folks.

I felt pretty strongly about Sasaki last time. I have no clear where to go from here, as I stumbled on him.

Don't worry about lynching me this round, I won't be around that long. Saski's coworker is going to give me some payback.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 01:13

@GeneralH: could you make it more obvious you can't refute my argument? Actually this one goes for Don as well. I did respond to your argument.

And Don, I said I'm not sure which of the 4 of you are mafia. You are all very suspicious. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Oh, and for laughs, here's this quote again:

Kinda goes without saying that I'm pretty damned sure that you're not mafia.

Myrddraal

10-30-2006, 01:19

Well well well...

I'm surprised Sasaki got lynched. After all, wasn't I the first person to vote for him this round, and that vote was pure retaliation for his 'discussion provoking' post.

However suspicious this will make me seem to all the people convinced of Sasaki's guilt, I think we made a mistake... I should have voted, as they say: an abstention is a vote for the extreme party.

However, more importantly, we've been derailed. The deductive train of thought that was going on has been lost somewhere a few pages back (or at least, my train of thought has).

Sasaki, you made some points about my own suspiciousness. My answers are in a spoil tag. The reason for this is that we've been derailed enough by this Sasaki affair already. We need to focus on the next lynch, however I can't leave these things unsaid:

I'd like to answer them, even if I can't answer them very well.

GeneralH then starts to try and get clues from the mafia kills (the kind of clues that the mafia always plant) and his suspicion list points to (surprise) Myself, Divine Wind, and Ignoramus. Myrddraal agrees with him which is one of the reasons he's on my list.

Well it's true I sort of agreed with him. FYI, here is my post on the matter:

Argh this reminds me of the last (and only) game I played in. There's so little info to go by As far as I can tell, the only info we have is that Lemur has some past experience of being targeted by people.

This really isn't enough to go by, but it's all I've got. Sorry folks, but you're all moving a (small) step up on my suspiciousness list.
I hardly agree at all. It was all we had to go by at the time, so it's all I could do. I decided at the beginning of this game to try to publicly analyse everything that's said. Keeping suspicions or oppinions on others suspicions private can only help the mafia (which is why I find the sudden appearance of your list of suspicions, just as you're attacked, quite suspicious itself).

Then comes the mangled kill posting by Silver. Don, Crazed Rabbit, and Myrddraal are all confused by this. From past games I think we can see that the mafia are likely to comment in this situation.

What can I say. In the last and only game I played I did this kind of stuff too. I'm afraid I don't really consider what people will think of what I say, I try to be as open as possible.

Of course, if I was mafia, I'd be saying exactly the same thing. I can't defend that point with anything more than saying I was more confused by the contradicting posts following silvers post than by SR's post itself.

Myrddraal votes for Kommodus while questioning those who vote for Kommodus
Well that's simply a lie. I voted for Kommodus after the evidence against him had been publicly posted. I then stated that I was suspicious of those who had voted for him without evidence.

I call Myrddraal on his post and he quickly votes me. Notice that he unvotes don and votes me while saying "anyway, what's wrong with my logic? I've tried to consider everything, what have I missed? " So he thinks his logic voting for Don is good but he unvotes him?

Now that is weak Sasaki. :no: You know exactly what went on with that sequence of posts, and it wasn't what you just wrote there. This is what happened (anyone feel free to go and check).

I posted a lengthy post which contained all the suspicions I had in my mind at the time. This included amongst other things an analysis of the previous accusations of Don C as I saw them. I said in that post that the latest evidence individually was very weak, but since there had several other suspicious things (especially his early behavior) he was highest on my suspicious list, and as such I would vote for him.

Sasaki immediately insulted me with a one liner and voted for me. Offended, I retaliated. I first abstained. This was to make a point - at least I was trying, rather than abstaining. I then got a bit pissed off with Sasaki. After all, I really thought about that post and then Sasaki just strolled along and said "it's crap" so I voted for him in retaliation. I then unvoted Sasaki and abstained. I actually thought the best piece of evidence Sasaki gave at this point was that nobody had defended Don C early in the game.

NOW Sasaki, you've changed history. The post I quote above is so twisted and far from the original I'm almost convinced we really have got a mafia.

I call Myrddraal on his post
No. You vote for me, you're only evidence is derision of my attempts to discuss.

and he quickly votes me.
No. I vote abstain, I post asking for an explanation of wtf you're up to. I then vote for you, in pure retaliation.

So he thinks his logic voting for Don is good but he unvotes him?
How can I vote for two people at once? Like I said, I voted abstain because I wanted to make the point that you had posted no better evidence than mine, but were still attacking mine. I voted you for the same reason, only I was more annoyed. You know that Sasaki, why are you trying to twist the truth in your post?

:inquisitive: <-Annoyed smiley...

Now, on to other matters. Hmm... I have to say I find the discussion going on between GH and Sasaki is filled with dodgyness and not much substance. I'm not sure if that means anything, seeing as one of them might be a freshly lynched mafioso, but GH you've just earned yourself a slight increase on my suspiciousness list. :inquisitive:

RTWGuru - Well, I don't know how to best express this post. RTWGuru seems to be acting really wierdly, but not really how I'd expect a mafioso to act. It's very possible he's using ignorance as cover. That would explain everything neatly. It reminds me of the Snowman of Death. We can't afford to have unexplained behavior in the town, it could be covering a mafia member. I'm afraid you get my vote:RTWGuru, isn't voting for anyone who's acting wierdly one of the maxims of mafia games?

Someone vote Don Corleone immediately, please!

I received a PM of him... at first I tought it proved his innocence.. but I think that's what he tried to achieve, seen the fact I post the names of those I suspect and those I think are innocent sometimes, while I'm dead.

Lynch him.

Next turn, Lynch Crazed Rabbit. If you don't win, lynch Sasaki. But I highly doubt that.

Can we see the PM? Don C acted very suspiciously at the start of the game, and since then he's put a lot of effort into being very 'townie'. Of course that could be the mafia who realised his mistake, it even seems likely that this is the case. Anyway, lets see it.

Xiahou

10-30-2006, 01:29

Ok, now Sasaki's dead- great. Now, can we lynch Don finally? I've been suspicious of him from the very beginning and by extension CR for their seemingly choreographed votes/unvotes for each other.

Seamus Fermanagh

10-30-2006, 01:34

Holy Moly!

Take 48 hours off and all bejeebers happens.

I will analyze and get back to this tomorrow AM.

GeneralHankerchief

10-30-2006, 01:45

Ok, you know what? Here's your argument. Let it be known that I actually *respond* to them, since it's clear that Sasaki won't respond to mine.

Ok, game starts and GH tries to get people to abstain:

And finds my calling him on this suspicious.

Uh, yeah. You voted for me with one of those ridiculous little one-line posts. Of course I'd find it suspicious.

GeneralH then starts to try and get clues from the mafia kills (the kind of clues that the mafia always plant) and his suspicion list points to (surprise) Myself, Divine Wind, and Ignoramus. Myrddraal agrees with him which is one of the reasons he's on my list. He also questions whether the CoP will be replaced, as if he is questioning whether it would be to the mafia's advantage to lynch Divine Wind now.

Sometimes the mafia plant clues and sometimes it's just genuine errors. Remember Godfather 1? It was pretty much all we had to go on at that point, so excuse me for furthering discussion.

Sigurd posts that he has reason to suspect Kommodus. Remember that it is in the mafia's best interest to lynch Kommodus rather than Kill him because if he's killed he's proved innocent and can still work against him.

Crazed Rabbit and Myrddraal immedietly question his claim (voting would be seen as suspicious). GeneralH is "convinced" by Sigurd in chat and votes Kommodus.

Yeah, I was convinced. Ask Sigurd, he told me about it in the chat.

Don, Crazed Rabbit, and GeneralHankerchief all jump on the Sasaki wagon https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gif

Originally I was suspicious of you but abstained. You then responded, suspiciously IMO, and I then voted for you.

They see a chance to lynch me and go for it. I answer all of their accusations but they quietly leave their vote on me and sit watching the thread doing nothing.

You know my feelings on this.

Satisfied?

Don Corleone

10-30-2006, 01:56

I find it really interesting Sasaki that you posted that one line and not the entire PM that I sent you, back when I thought Prole and Xiahou were mafia and Xiahou never responded. Could HE be your partner?

At the time I wrote it, you were the only person I didn't suspect. In fact, I never got suspicious of you until you started defending me so ardently. Unfortunately, as they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

Husar

10-30-2006, 01:59

Oh my, this is all messed up, I almost can't be bothered to read your personal feuds...let's get a few things straight...

I voted for Don as well
Yes, nice, but I think you forgot to unvote before that.

I'm afraid you get my vote:RTWGuru, isn't voting for anyone who's acting wierdly one of the maxims of mafia games?
No wonder Silver is disturbed when people post votes even before the next kills have been posted.~;)

Myrddraal

10-30-2006, 02:09

Whoops!

Sorry folks...

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 02:34

Ok, you know what? Here's your argument. Let it be known that I actually *respond* to them, since it's clear that Sasaki won't respond to mine.

Already responded, it's interesting you like to pretend I didn't.

Uh, yeah. You voted for me with one of those ridiculous little one-line posts. Of course I'd find it suspicious.

Vote:GeneralHankerchief

For starting what could be another cycle of "I abstain, because there isn't enough information to go on, because everyone else abstained, because there isn't enough information to go on, because..."

Voting someone to start discussion is standard practice. Even if you don't choose to do it personally it's not suspicious. Day 1 is all about discussion.

You complain that my post was ridiculous. Explain why. Rampant abstention hurts the town, this is fact. Why is one line a problem? There are dozens of one line posts. I believe I've made some of the longest posts in this thread to date. I was responding to your post which was much shorter.

Sometimes the mafia plant clues and sometimes it's just genuine errors. Remember Godfather 1? It was pretty much all we had to go on at that point, so excuse me for furthering discussion.

It sends discussion in the wrong direction. Odds are greatly in favor of it being a mafia plant or just meaningless. The mafia want you to waste time discussing it. There is plenty of precedent for this.

Yeah, I was convinced. Ask Sigurd, he told me about it in the chat.

How could something so weak convince you?

Originally I was suspicious of you but abstained. You then responded, suspiciously IMO, and I then voted for you.

I'm sorry, but this makes you look more guilty. Mafia often worry about being seen as bandwagoning and will say they find someone suspicious and then vote them in a later post.

You know my feelings on this.

To be fair it could be coincidence that you didn't respond. I saw Don sitting there not responding as well which made it more interesting.

Satisfied?

Oh, entirely. I can see why you avoided responding to my post if this was all you had to offer. Myrddraal makes a much better case for his innocence.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 02:38

Yes, nice, but I think you forgot to unvote before that.

I did unvote.

I find it really interesting Sasaki that you posted that one line and not the entire PM that I sent you, back when I thought Prole and Xiahou were mafia and Xiahou never responded. Could HE be your partner?

At the time I wrote it, you were the only person I didn't suspect. In fact, I never got suspicious of you until you started defending me so ardently. Unfortunately, as they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

I posted the relevent part. Your suspicions of Prole and Xiahou were already mentioned in the thread and ignored.

Listen, you were suspected by the town. A prime candidate for a mafia lynching. Before re-reading and noticing the links between you and several other people I thought you were merely noobish. Of course I stepped up to defend you, no offense meant but your ignorance of past games and mafia in general is really showing here Don. Unless it's an act.

Here you go if you want:

I followed up on my hunch about Prole & Xiahou. If we're allowed to by the rules, I'd like to discuss an experiment I've performed.

Doesn't say anything about it in the rules, so it must be allowed. Would be interested to hear.

Sasaki

Well, as I said, I noticed Prole & Xiahou in lock-step on that crazy story about Lemur's old enemies. Turned out to be a red herring... or did it? I PM'd each of them and told them I knew they were guilty and if they left me alive until the end, I'd be a 'runaway jury', defending them. Prole wrote back and laughed and said she was glad I'd started playing, but no, my imagination had gotten the better of me. (To be truthful, it was mostly in jest, I was more interested in their reaction then the proposal itself). I actually doubt Prole is really involved.

Xiahou on the other hand has remained strangely silent. He hasn't said a word.

If I get contract killed, Xiahou and #7 definitely have blood on their hands.

Interesting. If I was mafia I'd pop you this turn just because you'd be convinced it was Xiahou and #7 dude :p

You have to watch out for coincidence. You have to remember that if Xiahou is innocent, there is still a chance you'll be killed.

Sasaki

Kinda goes without saying that I'm pretty damned sure that you're not mafia. I mean, you certainly could be, don't get me wrong. But I just get a feel from the way you've played what little we've had to go on so far. Sure, this could be my introduction into the "never trust Sasaki" club, but there's more expeditious ways to do what you'd be trying to do.

By the way, if I'm overly posting or stirring up too much mud to be helpful, let me know. I don't think anybody's ever accused me of being too shy (I think the Backroom serves as proof there) but I can take polite criticism.

No worries m8, we need mud stirred up. The only thing we have to watch out for is being to certain in the early stages of the game. Quite often what seems like proof later turns out to have been unfounded.

Sasaki

Ignoramus

10-30-2006, 02:40

This is becoming increasingly difficult to find suspicious people. I am rapidly getting confused. I will post when I have done some research.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 02:46

This is becoming increasingly difficult to find suspicious people. I am rapidly getting confused. I will post when I have done some research.

You said this before. How can you not find anyone suspicious yet? :inquisitive:

Don Corleone

10-30-2006, 02:52

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 02:53

I'd like to answer them, even if I can't answer them very well.

Well it's true I sort of agreed with him. FYI, here is my post on the matter:

I hardly agree at all. It was all we had to go by at the time, so it's all I could do. I decided at the beginning of this game to try to publicly analyse everything that's said. Keeping suspicions or oppinions on others suspicions private can only help the mafia (which is why I find the sudden appearance of your list of suspicions, just as you're attacked, quite suspicious itself).

What can I say. In the last and only game I played I did this kind of stuff too. I'm afraid I don't really consider what people will think of what I say, I try to be as open as possible.

Of course, if I was mafia, I'd be saying exactly the same thing. I can't defend that point with anything more than saying I was more confused by the contradicting posts following silvers post than by SR's post itself.

Well that's simply a lie. I voted for Kommodus after the evidence against him had been publicly posted. I then stated that I was suspicious of those who had voted for him without evidence.

Now that is weak Sasaki. :no: You know exactly what went on with that sequence of posts, and it wasn't what you just wrote there. This is what happened (anyone feel free to go and check).

I posted a lengthy post which contained all the suspicions I had in my mind at the time. This included amongst other things an analysis of the previous accusations of Don C as I saw them. I said in that post that the latest evidence individually was very weak, but since there had several other suspicious things (especially his early behavior) he was highest on my suspicious list, and as such I would vote for him.

Sasaki immediately insulted me with a one liner and voted for me. Offended, I retaliated. I first abstained. This was to make a point - at least I was trying, rather than abstaining. I then got a bit pissed off with Sasaki. After all, I really thought about that post and then Sasaki just strolled along and said "it's crap" so I voted for him in retaliation. I then unvoted Sasaki and abstained. I actually thought the best piece of evidence Sasaki gave at this point was that nobody had defended Don C early in the game.

NOW Sasaki, you've changed history. The post I quote above is so twisted and far from the original I'm almost convinced we really have got a mafia.

No. You vote for me, you're only evidence is derision of my attempts to discuss.

No. I vote abstain, I post asking for an explanation of wtf you're up to. I then vote for you, in pure retaliation.

How can I vote for two people at once? Like I said, I voted abstain because I wanted to make the point that you had posted no better evidence than mine, but were still attacking mine. I voted you for the same reason, only I was more annoyed. You know that Sasaki, why are you trying to twist the truth in your post?

:inquisitive: <-Annoyed smiley...

I do want to apologize if I came off as insulting. I wanted to say that I found your posting remeniscent of a clever mafioso. You are also an excellent choice for mafioso which is why you remain near the top of my list. You can say you meant such and such by your post or that you had a good reason for voting Kommodus, but the fact is a mafioso could come up with such a reason and use it to eliminate a good player. If I were mafia I would probably use the "Kommodus is a good choice for mafioso" argument just the same so I won't argue this point too much.

You refer to my twisting of the truth, I'm just trying to read between the lines. If you're innocent it comes of as twisting the truth, if you're guilty then I'm uncovering the truth.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 02:56

Well, Sasaki, I must not be all that off the mark if you feel a need to get insulting now. Yes, you're right, I didn't get the greatest start. And no, I haven't played 7 or 8 times over the past 6 months like the rest of you.

That doesn't mean I'm retarded or anything. I explained my reasoning. You sort of counter it, and then get into disparaging me. Interesting.

It wasn't meant as an insult. Should I have been pc and said "your lack of knowledge of previous games" instead?

When your arguments would not be used by anyone who has played the game a number of times what am I supposed to say? It's like I claim Communism is the solution to all the worlds problems and you say "well, historically, the ussr..." and I say: "don't call me retarded just because I haven't read any history books! I still believe it's true!".

Csargo

10-30-2006, 02:56

Oh my God there's so much crap to read I'm gone what 3 hours? I hate you guys ;P

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 02:58

Oh my God there's so much crap to read I'm gone what 3 hours? I hate you guys ;P

Well Csar it's interesting that you say that. I've done a post by post analysis of your behavior this game with references to the last few games, it's a bit lengthy so I'll put it in spoiler tags:

Made you look! :laugh4:

Csargo

10-30-2006, 03:01

You complain that my post was ridiculous. Explain why. Rampant abstention hurts the town, this is fact. Why is one line a problem? There are dozens of one line posts. I believe I've made some of the longest posts in this thread to date. I was responding to your post which was much shorter.

Sasaki could you explain to me why Abstention hurts the town I'm confused?:dizzy2:

Oh yeah that last post was hilarious.:thumbsdown:

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 03:04

Sasaki could you explain to me why Abstention hurts the town I'm confused?:dizzy2:

Oh yeah that last post was hilarious.:thumbsdown:

Because there's no discussion and all that happens is townies die. The detective has a 1/14 chance of finding a mafioso first round. 2nd round he has 1/13. If he just randomly guesses by the time he finds a mafioso half the town will be dead. It's no good at all, and GeneralH knows this.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 03:04

Holy Moly!

Take 48 hours off and all bejeebers happens.

I will analyze and get back to this tomorrow AM.

Is this true or are you just avoiding posting?

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 03:06

Oh, and if none of the people I named are actually in the mafia then I'm officially the worst townie ever :embarassed: :no: :embarassed:

Csargo

10-30-2006, 03:10

Because there's no discussion and all that happens is townies die. The detective has a 1/14 chance of finding a mafioso first round. 2nd round he has 1/13. If he just randomly guesses by the time he finds a mafioso half the town will be dead. It's no good at all, and GeneralH knows this.

Just because one person Abstains not all of them will Sasaki.

Oh yeah something else I've noticed.

Your Crazy:yes: :yes: :clown:

GeneralHankerchief

10-30-2006, 03:40

Already responded, it's interesting you like to pretend I didn't.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1284598&postcount=396

I'm still waiting. If you already posted, post it again.

Voting someone to start discussion is standard practice. Even if you don't choose to do it personally it's not suspicious. Day 1 is all about discussion.

You complain that my post was ridiculous. Explain why. Rampant abstention hurts the town, this is fact. Why is one line a problem? There are dozens of one line posts. I believe I've made some of the longest posts in this thread to date. I was responding to your post which was much shorter.

No it isn't. Making a medium-sized post analyzing the situation is. You vote for someone when you think they did it, or the person with the most votes didn't do it. At that time, I really had nothing to offer and since Silver's games seem to be notorious for deadlines, I wanted to make sure I had something in.

It sends discussion in the wrong direction. Odds are greatly in favor of it being a mafia plant or just meaningless. The mafia want you to waste time discussing it. There is plenty of precedent for this.

Ok, fine. But look at it this way: How much would your suspicions of me have differed had I not posted that little analysis?

How could something so weak convince you?

It wasn't weak. Kommodus is an extremely smart player who learns from his mistakes. Engineering that kind of frame is right up his alley.

I'm sorry, but this makes you look more guilty. Mafia often worry about being seen as bandwagoning and will say they find someone suspicious and then vote them in a later post.

Yeah, I know. I did that with BKS in the last game. Don't you think that if I were mafia this time that I would have changed the strategy up?

Oh, entirely. I can see why you avoided responding to my post if this was all you had to offer. Myrddraal makes a much better case for his innocence.

Oh, please. Those are my reasons. I don't even know why I continue to argue. The townspeople made the right decision.

This game is starting to make me sick to my stomach. That's never happened before.

Xiahou

10-30-2006, 04:33

I find it really interesting Sasaki that you posted that one line and not the entire PM that I sent you, back when I thought Prole and Xiahou were mafia and Xiahou never responded. Could HE be your partner?I never responded because I took it as an amusing frameup attempt confirming your mafia role- asking me to post a sign in a different board here to acknowledge your "plan".

Honestly, it was pretty transparent. It would make no sense at all for me to leave a "secret" message on the public boards here when there would be numerous other ways for me to communicate(PMs for example) were I actually mafia.

So then, why make such an oddball request? Because you know already that I'm not mafia and in making such an odd offer it would also make me think that you're innocent as well. That PM, combined with your other public statements are the reasons I've been trying to get you lynched from round1.

You may be new at this, but your new guy mistake was overplaying you're new guy status to try and dodge suspicion. :wink:

Crazed Rabbit

10-30-2006, 04:49

Sasaki, you're way off the mark, and so is anyone else, in suspecting a link between me and Don.
Sasaki in particular is way off in his suspicion of, basically, every single one of my posts.

You're a master player; even after your death you attempt to continue your cause, be it for mafia or village.

Xiahou: there's been only one time of us voting and then unvoting for each other, and that was because Don used a random voting thing, which got him votes from other people who he didn't select.

Right now I'm suspicious of Don, Xiahou, Sigurd, GH, and Myrrdral.

All would be good choices for a mafioso. Well, Don has the right name for it, and he can claim ignorance as a defense (which he has). Xiahou performed well as a first time mafioso, going out after Sasaki, legendary spinmaster. Sigurd was a teflon Godfather in Sasaki's first game, and Myrrdral seems like a good player.

Also, RTWGuru is acting strange.

Gah, I'll come back tommorow after my exam.

CR

Ignoramus

10-30-2006, 05:16

RTWGuru is just crazy about his new forum game, I doubt he's in the mafia.

Xiahou

10-30-2006, 05:20

Xiahou: there's been only one time of us voting and then unvoting for each other, and that was because Don used a random voting thing, which got him votes from other people who he didn't select.Even with the vote exchange withstanding, Don is most likely mafia. He sent the PM as a clear attempt to gain a defender in lynch votes and when that didn't pan out he's now using the PM to frame up one of his main accusers(me).

edit: I suppose, following the PM saga, that Proletariat can't be entirely ruled out either...

Death Match

10-30-2006, 06:48

Hello everybody! I like to tell you NOT to vote for Don Corleone! It is absurd thinking that he is guilty! I really have nobody to suspect so:

Vote: No-Lynch

Ignoramus

10-30-2006, 07:03

You really are asking to be lynched aren't you?

Csargo

10-30-2006, 07:20

Hello everybody! I like to tell you NOT to vote for Don Corleone! It is absurd thinking that he is guilty! I really have nobody to suspect so:

Vote: No-Lynch

The Mafia kills haven't been posted yet

That's all I'm saying. :shame:

Ignoramus

10-30-2006, 09:37

"...plus time for Silver to log on, check his PMs, and rewrite the kills."

This is what GH said after the roles had been given out, but before the game actually started. I find this suspicious, especially the "rewrite the kills".

GeneralHankerchief

10-30-2006, 12:57

Don Corleone

10-30-2006, 13:33

Actually, Xiahou, I sent that PM to you and Prole just to see what sort of reaction I would get. I did find your 'no answer' sort of odd, so when I believed Sasaki was innocent, I mentioned it to him. BUT, I had already changed my mind about you and didn't think you were mafia a while ago. The reason the PM I sent to you and Prole came up again was because Sasaki brought it up.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure Sasaki was mafia. I'm 95% confident. But I'll tell you what. If the mafia kill two of us tonight, I'll vote myself. (Edit: Never mind, that's a bogus offer. If I am mafia, I'll just convince my coworker to only make one kill). Is there anything I can do, or should we just lynch me to be safe at this point? If we do, we're going to lose 3 innocent people, as we've wasted a townie (me) and another game turn (2 more mafia kills).

As for who the other mafia might be, I haven't a clue. I have several suspicions. What's more, we're focusing on people that have posted, but here we are, 1/3 of the way into the game, and there's about 5 or 6 people that haven't posted, and 4 more that haven't posted anything substantive.

It's a pretty easy day for the mafia if they don't have to say anything until they're one of 6 people left in the game, don't you think?

Seamus Fermanagh

10-30-2006, 14:24

Now that we have a few rounds of voting, its time to begin the trends analysis that I was using last time.

Inactive Voters [1 "active" vote or fewer in 4 rounds (with runoff)]:

Destroyer = No Vote, No Vote, No Vote, No Vote (likely suicide?)
Dutch Guy = Abstain, Drisos, No Vote, Abstain
Evil Maniac = No Vote, No Vote, Abstain, Abstain
Masy = Abstain, Drisos, No Vote, No Vote
Myrdraal** = Abstain, No Vote, Kommodus, Abstain
Peasant Phil= Gen. Hanky, Abstain, Abstain, No Vote
Proletariat = Abstain, No Vote, Husar, No Vote
Sigurd = Abstain, Abstain, Kommodus, No Vote*

* attempted to vote Don Corleone in round #4
** Active poster throughout

Most of these folks have been posting in a fairly limited fashion as well. Based on one game of experience (I know, I know...) this style is reasonably normal for Proletariat, Peasant Phil, & Evil Maniac.

Half of our living players have failed to register more than 1 "active" vote! Meanwhile, DonC/Sasaki/Hanky are creating enough bandwidth noise with their dispute that any attempt to bring in the lurkers might fail for lack of space.

I'm gonna start combing through the rounds of votes and comments looking for patterns -- probably skip the runoff though, as it is too limited to shine lots of light on anything.

I would hope to get EVERYONE more active in the discussion.

Edited: Removed Cowhead, who had voted in R3.

Death Match

10-30-2006, 14:36

EDIT: Accidently posted a spam and is now deleted

Death Match

10-30-2006, 14:41

Stop making suggestions and make an action. If you know who the detective is, tell that :furious3: person to investigate somebody.

Investigate me! Investigate theRTWGuru! Innocent - not because I'm the Godfather, because I'm NOBODY. WOW. Let's get some action going.

Not only are my posts always ignored, the detective (yes I did not say "our detective" because of several complaints) does NOTHING! The Mafia are like killing random people, the Godfather must be VERY bored, and SO AM I!!!!

Action! 3-2-1- GOOOOOOO....

:yes: :yes:

Dutch_guy

10-30-2006, 15:06

Drisos

10-30-2006, 15:38

Can we see the PM? Don C acted very suspiciously at the start of the game, and since then he's put a lot of effort into being very 'townie'. Of course that could be the mafia who realised his mistake, it even seems likely that this is the case. Anyway, lets see it.

I'm terribly sorry... I deleted it:wall: dumb action of mine..:wall:

Well I don't remember how exactly it was written but it was just one question: "Is there a good reason for you pointing your finger at RTWGuru?" It seemed like he wanted to know if I had some evidence, so he might want to vote RTWGuru. I replied, saying that I hadn't, apart from just my intuition after reading the thread.

Well.. draw your conclusions...

I guess this puts RTWGuru higher on the suspicion list as well... the list is getting long though. The mafia will probably have to kill some of them in the endgame, so less will remain with still a couple of executions to go...

Don Corleone

10-30-2006, 17:11

I'm actually going to have to be much more inactive. My wife has come down with the flu and I need to spend a lot less time on the computer when I'm not at work. I'm telling you all this because you're going to notice a stark change in my behavior, right when I start getting investegated. If you can't come up with anybody to lynch this round, feel free to vote me. Mrs. Corleone will thank you.

Husar

10-30-2006, 17:12

Not only are my posts always ignored,
Are you ignoring my posts?:inquisitive:
I often feel ignored as well, but I am happy not to get any responses where someone deflates my whole post and has a lengthy critique about each and every of my points, pulling suspicion out of his nose, either.~:rolleyes:
Maybe my friends in the Mafia won't ignore me in the next set of kills...:skull:

Sigurd

10-30-2006, 17:34

Sigurd

10-30-2006, 18:12

All mafia games need drama to stay interesting. I believe I contribute to this by my inputs.
This game is however derailing into a big argument and I am particularly concerned by GH feeling it physically.
These games should be played with tongue in cheek and funny dialogue. Some of you seem to take this a little too serious. You should not make enemies in these games, just new friends.

I believe Sasaki is playing this game tongue in cheek because that is how I interpret it.
Let’s take a step back and play like old buddies where snide remarks are taken with good humour. This might not be common in your local culture, but please let’s make it so.

Having said this…
I feel we need to move to the next game. The mafia will surely loose this round and I am going to make it happen.
Kommodus had an uber method of finding Mafiosi. I will top him by using one of the old navy methods and give you the players of this game.

Crazed Rabbit our detective has probably investigated me already and found me innocent.
Sasaki a Mafioso got lynched last round, while his companion Seamus Fermanagh… is still alive.
Both were chosen by our Godfather … Ignoramus.
Vote Ignoramus as I surely will get wiped out this round.

Myrddraal

10-30-2006, 18:19

Wow. You sound pretty convinced. Why?

Xiahou

10-30-2006, 18:30

Well, Ignoramus would certainly follow the theory of Prole's from round1. It would also seem to match the eerie words Lemur left us from the great beyond after his untimely death.

I do doubt that the mafia would kill you now, however, because it would prove you innocent and lend credence to your claims(hmm, unless of course you're wrong in which case they'd want to lend credence to your erroneous claims). Nonetheless, the above information along with your claims are enough for me to think it's worth a shot to lynch Ignoramus just to see if there is any truth to your claims.

Kommodus

10-30-2006, 18:32

Voice from the dead: Lisssssten to Ssssigurd, he knowsssssss what he'ssssss talking aboooouuuuut.

If you lynch Ignoramus and the game is still going, though, lynch Sigurd for being wrong twice. He's a smart guy and would only be wrong twice if he was guilty.

Sigurd

10-30-2006, 18:41

Wow. You sound pretty convinced. Why?
You came up as and alternative to Seamus... hmm.

Anyway vote Ignoramus and the game surely ends.

Myrddraal

10-30-2006, 18:48

You came up as and alternative to Seamus... hmm.

Well I'd still like to know why... I hope you don't mind.

I'm very tempted to vote, because a gamble where the stakes are winning the game is a gamble worth taking. But it kinda goes against my whole attitude to vote without reasoning...

Proletariat

10-30-2006, 19:11

I'm going with Sigurd this round. Big gamble, but worth it. Sig know's he's dead next if he's wrong, so we might as well shoot for it here.

Proletariat

10-30-2006, 19:39

edit: I suppose, following the PM saga, that Proletariat can't be entirely ruled out either...

Huh? I post on a lark about Lemur's past in these games, you agree and piggyback my post, Don therefore lumps us together as mafioso and somehow I get implied by you as well?

Do you think that I contacted Don privately, said something like, 'I'm gonna go drop a line about Lemur that's a total crock, when Xiahou takes the obvious bait and agrees in the thread, you Don, come riding through accusing Xman and me of being in the mafia! mwahahaha, perfect crime, those fools will never know'

:shrug:

Husar

10-30-2006, 20:00

This is almost as good as a talkshow.:2thumbsup:

Myrddraal

10-30-2006, 20:04

This is almost as good as a talkshow.
:yes:

edited to correct smiley

Crazed Rabbit

10-30-2006, 20:36

Xiahou

10-30-2006, 20:42

Huh? I post on a lark about Lemur's past in these games, you agree and piggyback my post, Don therefore lumps us together as mafioso and somehow I get implied by you as well?

Do you think that I contacted Don privately, said something like, 'I'm gonna go drop a line about Lemur that's a total crock, when Xiahou takes the obvious bait and agrees in the thread, you Don, come riding through accusing Xman and me of being in the mafia! mwahahaha, perfect crime, those fools will never know'

:shrug:No, I was talking about the PM Don sent us both. When I was talking about it's implications to his apparent guilt it occurred to me that I had to consider at least the remote possibility that you were in on it with him. To do otherwise would have been remiss of me in my role as one of the paranoid townsfolk. ~;p

Ignoramus, OTOH, fits in very nicely with your earlier theory (that I also subscribe to) that Lemur's death was a revenge killing of sorts. We suspected DivineWind or Ignoramus. Lemur's words from beyond seemed to clearly point to Ignoramus- and now these latest accusations also point to Ignoramus.

In light of this, I'm willing to put Don on the back burner for now to lynch Ignoramus. If Ignoramus truly is the godfather, Don's guilt or innocence will be irrelevant.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 20:47

This is almost as good as a talkshow.:2thumbsup:

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

:no:

Ignoramus has just posted a couple times to say "hmm no one suspicious". I do disagree with your assessment of Crazed as detective and me as mafioso though sigurd.

Silver Rusher

10-30-2006, 21:39

Day breaks in the Gameroom. All is quiet.

theRTWGuru was determined not to leave his house aside from executions. He had made this choice ever since the first two kills, and had been faithful to this rule ever since. There was only one problem:

He ran out of toilet paper.

TRG was debating on whether to break this infraction just the one time, up until he had to actually go and use a substitute material. Then, it was no contest. Cursing to himself, he got into his car and drove to the store.

Upon arriving home, he noticed a new addition to his street: A van, with the words “Vincenzo’s Guttering” printed on the side, was parked near his house. Where had he seen this van before…?

With a slightly increased air of caution, TRG got out of his car and walked up to the door of his house, turning the handle. When opening it, the back of his mind noticed that it was slightly harder to open than usual. Upon entering the foyer, TRG had about a split second to notice that an elaborate rigging system had been set up.

Then, the rigging system made its purpose known. A pot with a liter’s worth of hot coffee flew directly at him, breaking the glass and scalding TRG in many places. He barely had time to react before the mafioso charged down the stairs, firing away with his tommy gun.

Upwards of 25 bullets were placed in theRTWguru’s person before the mafioso finally stopped. As he left, he flipped a silver coin onto the corpse beside him.

Chief of Police Divine Wind walked out of the Get Yer 'orses Stable towards the expectant crowd later that morning, leading 4 horses behind him.

"These are the finest stallions of all the land." DW began. "Whoever is chosen responsible for TRG's death will have his arms tied to the horses and his legs tied to this here tree. The horses will then be wipped. Not a good way to go. Get voting."

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody
theRTWGuru

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro

Still alive:
Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
Cowhead418
Dutch_guy
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Destroyer of Hope
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

Seamus Fermanagh

10-30-2006, 21:40

4 Points for consideration:

A. Possible Detective Action: Assuming you've cleared DW, PM him your results ( I noted no rule prohibition of this). Since he is unlynchable, he can serve as a deposit point for the investigations. And, if more than one detective contacts him, a target list can be developed.

B. All of our contentious votes, thus far, have involved Don C. There is no specific pattern of vengeance murders regarding votes for or against him, but I think we will need to explore these votes (R1, R2) as the field narrows.

C. Prole': He's been mentioned a time or two, but you are the only one to vote for Husar. What's your thought here?

D. Sigurd is coming over as the voice of reason regarding re-toning the discussion to produce evidence (and taking it less personally). In the CN game, he and cowhead were rewarding for beginning to steer the discussion in the correct direction with quick lynchings. On what basis do the Sigurd detractors think he's hinky? Explain a bit more please.

Point of Personal Privilege:

-- I am not a mafiosi. My reticence over the weekend was due to my attendance at the exemplificiation of the 4th degree, KofC, here in the Old Dominion. Feel free to Google it if you wish. We brought in a large class of 200+ new Sir Kinghts!:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: I am back now, and happily analyzing votes/discussion. Also, since mafiosi were picked this time, and not at random, what Godfather in their correct senses would choose a guy who loves to analyze track records and publish them as one of his made men? Too many chances for a slip up.

Seamus Fermanagh

10-30-2006, 21:44

RIP Guru:skull: we hardly knew ye.

RTWguru:

Newbie to .org; very active poster in discussions on this thread. Voted for Don Corleone in R1, Did not vote in the runoff, Voted for Kommodus in R2, and lodged the only "No Lynch" vote of the entire game immediately prior to his own terminal lead poisoning.

p.s. Who's the fan of XXX who went for the scalding coffee thing?

Sigurd

10-30-2006, 21:54

I will drum up the Bandwagon then... come join me fellow townies... one, two, three, four.
Vote for Ignoramus
one, two, three four.. you know the rest.

Vote: Ignoramus

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 21:55

Hah, at least some of my accusations must have been accurate. Of course if I were mafia I would have accused a bunch of people anyway. Still, it looks like I accomplished what I intended.

~:cheers:

Dutch_guy

10-30-2006, 21:59

Eh, I'm most definately not the detective. If we have any doctors they can feel free to protect me, in case the mafia believes Sigurd and tries to off me.

Sigurd, You've got to have some more explaination for Ignoramous. How do we know you aren't just leading us around?

CR
PS I do heartily agree with Sigurd on the need to keep these games fun and not deadly serious.

Well, there is no doctor.

Personally Sigurd, I'd like to know why you think Ignoramus is so guilty. His posting behavior is exactly the same as in other games, and he hasn't made any posts which contain a sufficient amount of data needed to find someone guilty in my opinion.

PS: Let me be the third one to agree, these games are meant to be fun as well as challenging.

PPS: just wanted to edit this message, I'm off to bed now, so I'll be back and ready tomorrow (afternoon)

:balloon2:

Csargo

10-30-2006, 22:05

Vote: Ignoramus

I don't much like you anyways :P

Silver Rusher

10-30-2006, 22:08

Point of info for everyone: Revealing your role to single players at a time is forbidden. It is a rule included in the detective's PM, not in the thread.

Masy

10-30-2006, 22:25

I will drum up the Bandwagon then... come join me fellow townies... one, two, three, four.
Vote for Ignoramus
one, two, three four.. you know the rest.

Vote: Ignoramus

Why? He's not done anything...or is that what you're getting at?

I have my suspicions of several characters, but I shall wait until the oppertune moment before I divulge my info.

Seamus Fermanagh

10-30-2006, 22:33

Why? He's not done anything...or is that what you're getting at?

I have my suspicions of several characters, but I shall wait until the oppertune moment before I divulge my info.

Masy:

If you have suspicions, why not share some of the whys and wherefors? And why have you been so "inactive" in voting despite activity in discussion?

Sigurd:

A bit more on the why's to take out the Ignoramus, please. And why have you been so "inactive" in voting (though part of that was a late vote I know) despite activity in discussion?

Dutch Guy:

I agree that Siggy should be more forthcoming. And why have you been so "inactive" in voting despite activity in discussion?

....some might note a theme here...

Edit: used wrong form of emphasis to highlight dutchies name 1st time.

Sasaki Kojiro

10-30-2006, 22:44

Eh that's interesting. It's a poor townie play to name someone as detective if you have reason to believe they are Sigurd. Lynching Ignoramus may be cool and all, but it's probably not a good idea to let Sigurd get it done easily. I can't see getting yourself lynched for the sake of one townie as being worthwhile but then maybe he knows something I don't know.

GeneralHankerchief

10-30-2006, 22:46

Vote: Abstain

I'm taking this round off.

Seamus Fermanagh

10-30-2006, 23:09

Voting analysis note:

3 of the 4 who voted to/changed votes in order to lynch Sasaki were Abstainers in the 1st round, though all voted in every subsequent vote:

Csar, Don Coreleone, Gen. Hanky.

The 4th lining up to kill Sasaki was:

Crazed Rabbit, who had voted for Drisos in R1, but skipped R1b and R2.

Since the Sasaki vote was easily the most contentious, with votes changing up to a fairly short time before the deadline and with only a few votes deciding the kill, this may have been a mafioso ploy to select the target of the lynch.

To be fair, with 8 not voting and a couple of abstaintions, this point is not absolute.

Seamus Fermanagh

10-30-2006, 23:11

Crazed Rabbit:

Why did you quote Michael Corleone from the Godfather Part Two in lodging your 1st round retaliation vote against Don C.? In the movie, of course, this was a Godfather speaking to a made man/brother in his own family about that made man's betrayal.

Cowhead418

10-30-2006, 23:14

I'm going to Vote: Ignoramus. Last time someone was this confident in a mafia game the town won the next round. Also, if anyone needs remembering, Ignoramus voted for himself in round one. Now, people who have done this before (Lemur, Kagemusha) were townies and it does seem like a stupid thing to do so early, but consider this:

Round one, there was a contested three-way vote between DW, DC, and Drisos. Near the end of the round Ignoramus jumps in and votes for himself, thinking that it was safe to do so because it was unlikely a bandwagon would be started. Also, surely the town would think this is just another villager acting stupid and thus not worth the trouble of lynching? Finally, remember that in the last Godfather, IIRC Aggony Duck voted for himself and was killed by SR next round. No such action was taken on Ignoramus. Ever since that first round, he has been very quiet and has successfully avoided detection - until now.

On the other hand, If the game does not end, then Sigurd will be in hot water. I remember how 'certain' you were in Gotta Have More Mafia about Tiberius, and I won't forget how you led the town astray. You better be right.

PS: @ Seamus - your notes on my voting record are wrong. I voted RTWGuru last round.

Husar

10-30-2006, 23:29

4 Points for consideration:

A. Possible Detective Action: Assuming you've cleared DW, PM him your results ( I noted no rule prohibition of this). Since he is unlynchable, he can serve as a deposit point for the investigations. And, if more than one detective contacts him, a target list can be developed.
Despite Silver saying that this is forbidden, if Divine Wind is the Godfather, this is a pretty stupid thing to do and gives me the idea that you may be a mafioso who had exactly this in mind.

B. All of our contentious votes, thus far, have involved Don C. There is no specific pattern of vengeance murders regarding votes for or against him, but I think we will need to explore these votes (R1, R2) as the field narrows.
I think now that Don C is not guilty because I do not believe he would use his wife as a cheap excuse to get out of the affair, if that isn't enough for anyone, he mentioned this problem in other game threads as well.

C. Prole': He's been mentioned a time or two, but you are the only one to vote for Husar. What's your thought here?
Yes, voting for such an innocent cute guy as me...
Well, I have neither anything against nor for Prole but I think her decision was also forged in the chat, details shall never be revealed.

Crazed Rabbit our detective has probably investigated me already and found me innocent.
Sasaki a Mafioso got lynched last round, while his companion Seamus Fermanagh… is still alive.
Both were chosen by our Godfather … Ignoramus.
Vote Ignoramus as I surely will get wiped out this round.
Let's try to apply some logic guesses here:
1. Sasaki might be mafia + one kill this round
2. Sigurd may be mafia + my reply to the first quote in this post
3. you were not wiped out last round, instead someone remotely suspicious got killed
4. Crazed Rabbit might be detective but denies any knowledge

Vote: Ignoramus for now.