The Godfather, Part 2 [Concluded]

[Csargo]

Well there buddy if more people visited the Chat they would know what it's about know wouldn't they I have just seen some very convincing evidence.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well there buddy if more people visited the Chat they would know what it's about know wouldn't they I have just seen some very convincing evidence.

Deja vu lol

[Csargo]

Deja vu lol

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, oh yeah you can't go in there can you. :2thumbsup: :laugh4:

[Ignoramus]

This is nonsense. Sigurd hasn't given a single piece of evidence that I am one of the mafia.

Sigurd's evidence for accusing Kommodus was extremely weak.

I am not one of the mafia, and jumping on a bandwagon of an innocent villager at this time is not at all wise.

If Sigurd's not producing evidence, but says he's certain, then something is wrong.

[Csargo]

This is nonsense. Sigurd hasn't given a single piece of evidence that I am one of the mafia.

Sigurd's evidence for accusing Kommodus was extremely weak.

I am not one of the mafia, and jumping on a bandwagon of an innocent villager at this time is not at all wise.

If Sigurd's not producing evidence, but says he's certain, then something is wrong.

He can't post the evidence it's a PM from you.:juggle2: You can't take screenshots and post them here or atleast none of the other games you couldn't. If Silver says it's ok I'll post the PM screenshot if not then we in the chat can only tell you about it.:book:

[Proletariat]

Ignoramus has to go, this is just too silly. Chatroom gossip ftw

Vote: Ignoramus

[Myrddraal]

If it's a PM, can't you just post the text here???

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I suspect Ignoramus sent him a pm saying "hey hows it goin" and Sigurd instantly realized it was an attempt to frame him :laugh4:

j/k m8 I'm just curious

[Ignoramus]

I am innocent.

I did send the following message to Sigurd:

"Hello, my mafia henchman. You are progressing well so far, I have a nice piece of information for you.

Crazed Rabbit is the detective. He foolishly told me his role in attempt to wrok together against the mafia. Little did he know he was talking directly to the Godfather himself.

Go get him.

The Godfather."

I sent it as a trap. If Sigurd was one of the mafia(as I suspected strongly), Crazed Rabbit would get killed next round and I could expose him. If Sigurd is innocent, which I almost am certain now(because he believes Crazed Rabbit is the detective), then I would never have sent that message to him if I was innocent.

If I was the Godfather, I would know who the mafia were, and thus Sigurd can't be one of the mafia, otherwise he wouldn't vote for me because he'd lose if I was killed, therefore I can't be the Godfather because I wouldn't have sent that message to an innocent villager.

The two people who defended me were: Masy and Dutch_Guy. That is I think suspicious. If they were innocent, they would jump at a reasonable chance of knocking off the Godfather.

Ignoramus.

[Husar]

My version is you confuzzled Seamus and Sigurd or were in a haste, made a big mistake and have to hang now.
If I am wrong, it still proves my point that PM tricks are bad because they tend to backfire...
Should you not be the Godfather, we can still lynch Sigurd, but so far I want to lynch you my dear.:smash:

edit: 1000 rubber points for the one who notices a big logical flaw in my last post.:laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This is ridiculous. What the Hell are we supposed to think, that Ignoramus messaged the wrong person? Yeah right. A mafia ploy? What the old "pretend I'm guilty and confess to someone that I know is innocent, that'll fool them hahahah!" ploy?

Something is going on behind the scenes here.

My bet is we'll find the mafia among those who pushed for the Kommodus and Ignoramus lynches, and among those who go after Seamus next turn (since the gossip seems to be Ignoramus meant to message Seamus, which makes no sense. At all.). Perhaps they think it's worth one of theirs getting lynched to off a few townsmen. Weird.

Tell me this. The word seems to be that it was a predictive text glitch and it was intended for Seamus (how convenient). Why would it have been intended for Seamus and not for Sasaki since they both begin with S. Or Sir Moody. That's at least an Si. The predictive thing always lags a few seconds for me and it doesn't autofill. He would have had to have typed "S" waited a few seconds, manually selected "Sigurd" from the list, and then not noticed. Baloney.

Actually you have to type 3 letters before anything comes up. So he would have had to have typed "Sig" instead of "Sea" and then selected sigurds name yadda yadda.

[Myrddraal]

Just a quick note before going to bed. This whole thing is just too good to be true. I'm willing to bet the game doesn't end next round.

[Xiahou]

This is ridiculous. What the Hell are we supposed to think, that Ignoramus messaged the wrong person? Yeah right. A mafia ploy? What the old "pretend I'm guilty and confess to someone that I know is innocent, that'll fool them hahahah!" ploy?

Something is going on behind the scenes here.

My bet is we'll find the mafia among those who pushed for the Kommodus and Ignoramus lynches, and among those who go after Seamus next turn (since the gossip seems to be Ignoramus meant to message Seamus, which makes no sense. At all.). Perhaps they think it's worth one of theirs getting lynched to off a few townsmen. Weird.

Tell me this. The word seems to be that it was a predictive text glitch and it was intended for Seamus (how convenient). Why would it have been intended for Seamus and not for Sasaki since they both begin with S. Or Sir Moody. That's at least an Si. The predictive thing always lags a few seconds for me and it doesn't autofill. He would have had to have typed "S" waited a few seconds, manually selected "Sigurd" from the list, and then not noticed. Baloney.

Actually you have to type 3 letters before anything comes up. So he would have had to have typed "Sig" instead of "Sea" and then selected sigurds name yadda yadda.
Sounds like desperation to me. :wink:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sounds like desperation to me. :wink:

You're letting the mafia walk away with it...unfortunatly so many people are going along with it it's hard to tell who's who. You're up there, Sigurd and Myrddraal almost certainly. Less suspicious of crazed and GH than before and Seamus is pretty clearly innocent.

[Ignoramus]

GH is the Godfather.

[Ignoramus]

I intended to message Sigurd. Masy and Dutch_Guy are the mafia, while GH is the Godfather.

Why? Masy and Dutch_Guy both defended me when Sigurd accused me of being the Godfather. They wouldn't know who the Godfather was when they were chosen, so they believed Sigurd was right, and were anxious to protect their "Godfather". GH is the real Godfather, and knowing that I was faking it, he abstained from voting.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Why did you quote Michael Corleone from the Godfather Part Two in lodging your 1st round retaliation vote against Don C.? In the movie, of course, this was a Godfather speaking to a made man/brother in his own family about that made man's betrayal.

Didn't know the source of the quote. I heard it before, thought it might be a clever thing to throw in.

On to more recent events...gah...

Why in the heck would someone try to fake being a Godfather? The mafia knows the real Godfather is! Also - I am not the detective, and even if I was I couldn't reveal my role to one person at a time.

That's a super lame excuse Iggy for sending that PM.

Also: the mafia dropped down to one kill again. Are they faking it or not?

Sasaki: Why is Seamus innocent?

Iggy: what makes you say GH is the Godfather?

Vote: Abstain

Edit: Saw Iggy's reason for saying GH is the godfather:
Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Iggy

CR

[Seamus Fermanagh]

PS: @ Seamus - your notes on my voting record are wrong. I voted RTWGuru last round.

You are correct. My apologies. btw, nice debeloped rationale for your vote. Not sure I agree, but certainly not a lurker/bandwagon post.

[Kommodus]

Hm, Ignoramus' defense actually seems reasonable to me, now that I read it.

Why? Consider the following:

1. Recall that last game Ignoramus was the detective, and mistakenly PM'd either GH or Sasaki (I don't remember which), who were the Godfather and mafia mastermind, respectively. Crazed Rabbit knows of this - do you really think he'd make the same mistake if he were the detective?

2. In this game, Silver has forbidden the detective from revealing his role to individual players; he's only allowed to reveal himself publicly in the thread. If Crazed Rabbit were the detective, he wouldn't break the rules like that.

These two things make it a near certainty that Ignoramus' PM to Sigurd was not a genuine PM mistakenly sent to the wrong target. It is far more likely to be a ploy, as Ignoramus claims - although I must admit, a very dangerous stunt for Iggy to pull.

Sigurd, that's twice you've been wrong now, and likely twice you've gotten an innocent person executed. I still think you're innocent; otherwise you wouldn't have claimed that lynching Ignoramus would end the game. Nevertheless, two strikes is two-thirds of the way to three...

I urge you guys to retract your votes for Ignoramus. Don't make me come up with a new numerical method here... :scholar:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Kommo:

You raise good points.

Mistakenly PMing the wrong person is possible but as both you and your co-corpse Sasaki note, it seems unlikely.

Currently, we have 7 votes for Iggy, 1 Abstain, and 10 or so who haven't lodged a vote -- including most of the inactive voters from previous rounds.

Either your points are malfed and Siggy has this figured out to a "tee," or I think we've got lots of white noise while mafiosi skate through without any active voting while we're killing each other.

For now, I'll vote against an inactive.

Vote: Peasant Phil

subject to change

[Don Corleone]

I don't have a lot of time and I apologize for having to fall out of play like this. I just have this to say:

-I'm still convinced Sasaki was mafia and as we haven't had 2 assasinations yet, I haven't been proven wrong. In my mind, that puts everything he says up for suspicion.

-I'm tempted to vote Sigurd, mainly because before we lynched Kommodus, he said "If I'm wrong, lynch me". Now, he's saying the same thing about Ignoramus. Except....

-The PM message as a tempt? Sorry Ignoramus. The mafia know who the godfather are and vice versa. If you thought Sigfurd was the mafia, what would be the point of telling him that CR confessed to you, the Godfather. Even if you didn't know that Sigurd the hitman would already know you were the Godfather, couldn't you just have ordered him to kill CR?

In light of points 1 and 3:

Vote: Ignoramus

Thank you everyone for being understanding. I promise when things settle down here at home, I'll play (in a much more restrained fashion next time).

[Ignoramus]

In all honesty, I seriously thought that the Godfather was secret from the mafia. I realise now that I confused The Godfather's role in this game to Sasaki's role in the first Godfather mafia game.

I am innocent, and killing me will just waste an opportunity to kill the mafia. Almost certainly I shall be killed by the mafia next turn, so you needn't vote for me.

Not that my vote is going to do any good, but anyway:

Vote: General Hankerchief

Edit: Crazed Rabbit is acting strangely in his last post.

[Husar]

Just a quick note before going to bed. This whole thing is just too good to be true. I'm willing to bet the game doesn't end next round.
One of my professors lately said something like:
"It's worse to miss an opportunity than to make a wrong decision, I want the right to make a wrong decision but I surely don't want to miss a good opportunity"
:bow:

[Sigurd]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
You're the man Ignoramus...




Actually you have to type 3 letters before anything comes up. So he would have had to have typed "Sig" instead of "Sea" and then selected sigurds name yadda yadda.
This is of course if he used that method for chosing whom to PM.

Let's say he used the profile selector from within the thread and let's say he is on dialup and therefore does not have avatars or signatures visible.
If you are not paying attention you could easily mistake me from Seamus Fermanagh

[edit]: added if

Sigurd Fafnesbane
Seamus Fermanagh

And Ignoramus have mistakingly sent PM's to the wrong people in the past.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The problem, my lord dragonslayer, is that Iggy would have had no reason to PM me. If he was sending a mistaken message, I was not the originally intended recipient. Since I know myself to be innocent, I cannot accept your current theory as to Iggy's guilt.

Mind you, Iggy may be the GF -- I have no clue -- so his lynching may indeed end the game, but I know that you are arriving at that conclusion based upon a false premise.

This suggests that:

You're on the wrong investigative track and we're about to lynch someone without valid evidence (still might be mafia, but only randomly).

You have developed valid evidence, but are keeping it hidden and using this as a cover (legit tactic, of course).

You are the actual source of threat to the town (I will be assessing this assuming the game does not end).



Unvote: Peasant Phil
Vote: Abstain

[Husar]

You're on the wrong investigative track and we're about to lynch someone without valid evidence (still might be mafia, but only randomly).

You have developed valid evidence, but are keeping it hidden and using this as a cover (legit tactic, of course).

You are the actual source of threat to the town (I will be assessing this assuming the game does not end).



Unvote: Peasant Phil
Vote: Abstain
And you think abstaining will finally get all the mafia?
You , Sasaki and Ignoramus have posted so much since we all voted for Ignoramus, I almost don't care anymore what your posts contain. Why is it so important for the three of you that Ignoramus will not be lynched?:inquisitive:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I don't like seeing the innocent lynched. Especially since, as numbers dwindle, we may run out of chances to stop the mafiosi.

Iggy is defending himself rather poorly. His defense rests on an elaborate PM bait-and-see ploy that he used to try to smoke out the mafia. If false, he's obviously guilty. If true, he's trying a whacky strategy that, based on what's presented in this thread, didn't seem to me a very good effort at investigation.

Iggy will almost certainly be lynched. A lot of votes would have to change or the entirety of the non-voting set would have to pick someone new.

I just don't see Siggy's stated reasons as compelling. Maybe there's something else there that I'm not seeing, but I refuse to disconnect my cerebrum and jump on the bandwagon unless I see some value in the lynch. Right now, I don't really believe Siggy's stated reasons AND I do not find Iggy's defense sensible.

However, you are correct, an abstention will resolve nothing at this point.

Unvote: abstain
vote: Husar

You've been a little too gleeful and a little to unsupported in your lynching votes/rationale thus far.

[Kommodus]

*sigh* And so the town makes another mistake. What is it about Silver Rusher's games that causes the townspeople to take leave of their senses? :wall:

I admit, Sigurd's evidence looked convincing at first, when he told the story. It was certainly stronger than the evidence he posted against me, and even I was convinced. However, now that Ignoramus has posted the contents of his message to Sigurd (which haven't been disputed), the real answer is clear.

Ignoramus' message was either:

1. A misdirected message to one of his mafia goons, or
2. An attempt to bait Sigurd.

In this case, there are no other possibilities - it's one of the two above choices. As myself and others have effectively shown, it isn't the first.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truth.

It's certainly true that Iggy's attempt was misguided (seriously, Iggy, how did you expect Sigurd to respond to that?) The mafia do know who their Godfather is, and how Iggy could've misunderstood that is beyond me. Still, however improbable that seems, it is far more likely to be the truth.

Ignoramus will be lynched. The game will continue. Sigurd, given the fact that you had the actual text of the message Ignoramus sent you, I think you should've been able to figure this one out. No offense though; everyone makes mistakes.

[Sigurd]

The problem, my lord dragonslayer, is that Iggy would have had no reason to PM me. If he was sending a mistaken message, I was not the originally intended recipient.
That he sent the message is unquestionable as he has admitted to this and even posted the content of it in this thread.
It is my speculation that it was originally intended for you based on the similar names (if you are slightly dyslectic).


This suggests that:

You're on the wrong investigative track and we're about to lynch someone without valid evidence (still might be mafia, but only randomly).

You have developed valid evidence, but are keeping it hidden and using this as a cover (legit tactic, of course).

You are the actual source of threat to the town (I will be assessing this assuming the game does not end).

In my opinion it is valid evidence and should not be considered a weak one. Ignoramus
sent me the PM that is clear; it is valid even though the intent is a little mystic.

If Ignoramus is speaking truth he should be lynched just for pulling this stunt. The town’s interest is not served by having its members posing as mafia. Remember the Spartan?


If I where Godfather Ignoramus, the nature of your innocence would have been a secret only I knew and hence I would not have killed you. I would have gotten you lynched and you just gave me the tools by which I could do so. I would not have been as bombastic as I chose to be here; I would have simply laid out the evidence to the townies and made them decide what actions to take. You would have admitted your guilt anyhow. The problem would have been to make a convincing story to why the mafia didn’t kill me the next round.

I know by saying this I am balancing on a knife’s edge as this gives suspicion and rightfully so. The mafia would want to keep me alive because I do divert the attention. But they don’t know what other pieces of the puzzle I might have. Maybe I watched some of the profiles after I posted my “brannfakkel” (a word you must implement – meaning ‘a torch’) and saw some frantic PM activity in the after match. For this reason they will not kill me because as an innocent I get credibility. The townies on the other hand have good reason to want me lynched as I am a wild cannon just up there with Ignoramus. My two stunts (that is if the game does not end after the lynching of Ignoramus) has cost too much diversion, and I remember someone saying that they would never be fooled twice again. Well…
I am not going to defend myself with the ferocity as that of Sasaki as that always got me lynched anyway in previous games. Sasaki did as well in his last two games.

[Husar]

*sigh* And so the town makes another mistake. What is it about Silver Rusher's games that causes the townspeople to take leave of their senses? :wall:
You may want to give us stupid townies a hint at who to lynch next instead of Ignoramus?
We have a bunch of idlers and a bunch of innocents so should we all vote no lynch? I see at least a bit of a hint towards Ignoramus being guilty, for the rest I do not see much, we could of course lynch all idlers but if noone of them is mafia, we're screwed as well.~:confused:

[Masy]

I intended to message Sigurd. Masy and Dutch_Guy are the mafia, while GH is the Godfather.

Why? Masy and Dutch_Guy both defended me when Sigurd accused me of being the Godfather. They wouldn't know who the Godfather was when they were chosen, so they believed Sigurd was right, and were anxious to protect their "Godfather". GH is the real Godfather, and knowing that I was faking it, he abstained from voting.

Odd. Here you're getting overly defensive and casting about wild, unsubstantiated assertions to draw the heat offa yourself.


I am innocent, and killing me will just waste an opportunity to kill the mafia. Almost certainly I shall be killed by the mafia next turn, so you needn't vote for me.

Not that my vote is going to do any good, but anyway:

Vote: General Hankerchief

And here you're playing the old "I'm resigned to my fate, I don't really care" card.

Mafia? Perhaps. You've drawn the most suspicion to yourself this round,

Vote: Ignoramus

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Latest report on "inactive" voters (4 No votes or abstains through 4.5 rounds)

Destroyer = DNV, DNV, DNV, DNV, No Vote Yet
Dutch Guy = Abstain, Drisos, DNV, Abstain, No Vote Yet
Evil Maniac = DNV, DNV, Abstain, Abstain, No Vote Yet
Myrdraal = Abstain, DNV, Kommodus, Abstain, No Vote Yet
Peasant Phil = Gen. Hanky, Abstain, DNV, DNV, No Vote Yet

I'm guessing that Destroyer is a suicide to be.

I think we need to treat as suspect any of these folks who are still breathing as we start the 5th round of lynch votes.

I was annoyed at Husar, but this annoys me more.

Unvote: Husar
Vote: Myrdraal

You contribute much, suggest guilt, but vote little.

[Silver Rusher]

*****Voting Closed*****

[Dutch_guy]

Ok, well it seems as if Ignoramus is getting lynched this round - and it also seems like he wants to take Masy and myself with him. The reasons for those accusations are slim, and don't exactly endear the town to him, especially as Masy and I actually defended him.

Now, I never did find Ignoramus suspicious - that is, untill his last few posts...Why drag someone down with you when they didn't vote for you untill that time, and actually tried to defend you ?

EDIT: It seems my vote doesn't matter anymore, was typing this when the voting was closed

:balloon2:

[Silver Rusher]

Evening in the Gameroom.

In recent years the government had been involved in a campaign to plant more trees. Unfortunately, they seemed to have forgotten this in the Gameroom and so Chief of Police Divine Wind had to use the only tree, an oak on a corner near the centre of town, as the execution. He walked towards it, leading 4 horses behind him. Ignoramus' legs had already been tied to the tree to stop him trying to run. Even if he tried to untie the ropes the townspeople would have been on him like a pack of angry hounds. Suffice to say, he didn't bother with anything fancy like that.

DW arrived at Ig and tied his hands to rope. There were 4 pieces, 2 on each hand. The other end of each piece of rope was tied to the collar of the horse.

"Now then, Ignoramus," DW began, "I have here a letter you sent to Sigurd Fafnesbane recently. The letter did not have Sigurd's name in it anywhere, so we can safely assume that you were sending orders to your fellow 'mafioso' on who to murder during the night. Thanks to the wonders of our innefficient postal service, they ended up in Sigurd's hands. What do you have to say for yourself?"

"It was a trick!" Ignoramus burst into action, "I was trying to get Sigurd to murder Crazed Rabbit so I could prove it was him! You are making a mistake!"

"A trick? Ha!" DW turned to the backs of the horses, and with a sweeping motion he consecutively wipped all four of them. They began trying to trot, then with a couple more they were attempting to do a full gallop.

Ignoramus shrieked out in pain. The horses were pulling his bones with horrific force. But the rope was clearly fraying, and before too long the ropes broke and the horses ran off into the distance.

This was, unfortunately, the time when Destroyer of Hope walked out of the hairdressers having just had his head shaved and walked straight into the path of the horses, stroking his scalp and smiling. He didn't notice the horses at first, and when he did it was too late. They knocked him over and trampled him. His vital organs and blood laid onto the road, it wasn't a nice sight.

DW watched this, partly with shock and partly with amusement. "Damn," he muttered, "but I guess it doesn't really matter." He picked up an axe next to the tree and landed a blow on Ignoramus' neck. His head came off cleanly.

Tally:
Ignoramus - 9 votes (Cowhead418, Crazed Rabbit, Csar, Don Corleone, Husar, Masy, Proletariat, Sigurd Fafnesbane, Xiahou) :skull:
GeneralHankerchief - 1 vote (Ignoramus)
Myrddraal - 1 vote (Seamus Fermanagh)
Abstain - 1 vote (GeneralHankerchief)
Not Voting So Far = 7 (Big King Sanctaphrax, Destroyer of Hope, Evil_Maniac From Mars, Myrddraal, Peasant Phill)

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody
theRTWGuru

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro
Ignoramus

PM:
Destroyer of Hope

Still alive:
Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Crazed Rabbit
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
Cowhead418
Dutch_guy
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

PM's please.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What?! The game isn't over!?

NO WAY DUDE

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

No! I didn't get my abstain in! :shame:

[Kommodus]

What?! The game isn't over!?

Woo, big surprise there! :balloon2:

Sigurd, I think you'll have a harder time convincing the town to go with your suggestions in the future, assuming they don't lynch you.

:oops:

[Ignoramus]

What?! The game isn't over!?

NO WAY DUDE

I told you. ~;p

[Myrddraal]

I'm not surprised, however, I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm talking about Sigurd. That's twice now he's suggested we lynch someone on trust, and both times he's been wrong. Coincidence?

I actually think it is. I think he was just plain wrong the first time, and I think this time, he was trying to do the best for the town, but Ignoramus' strange behavior threw him off track. However, I'm not so happy about the fact that he also made accusations apart from Ignoramus. How could he be so sure of anything apart from the Ignoramus claimed to be the godfather... If he was mafia, he would have been just as keen to get Ignoramus lynched as if he was townie...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Heh, figures that his fellow mafia would attempt to let him off the hook. Hopefully the town won't buy it, and will lynch you next round, Myrddraal.

[Death Match]

voice from the dead....

I was innocent as you see, but why would I have acted suspicious on purpose?

Point to really think about

ps. I was only not posting because of my end of year exams...

[Myrddraal]

You really are lashing out wildly with your accusations Sasaki. I wish you'd add some meat to your posts.

[Proletariat]

It's a little curious how involved he remains in this game, where I remember I think two others I've been in where Sasaki ignored the on-going game after dieing.

[Drisos]

I'd like to repeat... don't wait too long lynching suspicious charactere or they just might be slipping through.

Anyway. I didn't want to say this before to let the discussion continue; I am 99% sure Sasaki Kojiro was NOT mafia. And you know I'm innocent as the kills didn't stop, so why would I be lying? I am not going to tell you how I know Sasaki was innocent, perhaps later.

Most of the people he called suspicious are still alive. That needs to chance. Lynch the ones that are not killed. :whip:

[Myrddraal]

That would involve lynching about half the remaining living players. Sasaki seems to have accused anyone who questioned his logic along the line.

I didn't vote for Sasaki, because I really was not convinced at the time that he was mafia, but since then he's really been hard at work. When he posts a long bit of reasoning, he twists history beyond recognision, and when he posts a one liner, everyone jumps to follow him. God help this town if he really was mafia.

@Drisos, what do you think of Don C now? I know that if I dare to suggest his name again I'll be accused by Sasaki of going for the easy lynch, but I haven't forgotten the PM you recieved, and you've been proven innocent.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That would involve lynching about half the remaining living players. Sasaki seems to have accused anyone who questioned his logic along the line.

I didn't vote for Sasaki, because I really was not convinced at the time that he was mafia, but since then he's really been hard at work. When he posts a long bit of reasoning, he twists history beyond recognision, and when he posts a one liner, everyone jumps to follow him. God help this town if he really was mafia.

@Drisos, what do you think of Don C now? I know that if I dare to suggest his name again I'll be accused by Sasaki of going for the easy lynch, but I haven't forgotten the PM you recieved, and you've been proven innocent.

Myrdraal:

you have lodged exactly one active vote this entire game, joining the Day #2 plurality (8 votes) for Kommodus' lynching. Kommodus, along with Drisos were found innocent ex post facto by reason of the continuance of double mafia killings. Of the three opportunities out of five where you lodged a vote, two were abstentions -- hardly a decisive record. So the only lynching vote you made was made against one of two players whom we can confirm (now:shame: ) to have been innocent.

You post frequently, and argue with Sasaki's logic, yet you offer no alternative explanations of what is happening. You provide no direction for pressure or investigation save a return to the targets of earlier rounds, rounds in which you did not vote for that target when presented with the opportunity.

I am, and I think understandably, troubled by an active poster who refuses to take a stance in our voting. Whose abstentions do NOT prevent him from arguing suspicions and accusations. Reenk annoyed me in CN by abstaining almost all the time, but at least he didn't spend time hanging target markers on others while doing so.

What strategy are you playing at Myrdraal? So far, I am reading posts by someone stirring up bandwagons or trying to run them in certain directions without leaving a track record her/himself.....

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You really are lashing out wildly with your accusations Sasaki. I wish you'd add some meat to your posts.

I've already said what I had to say, no need to reiterate, just pointing out that you were trying to let Sigurd off the hook.


Pushing the bandwagon without voting myself is something I did several times in Godfather one. You don't put yourself out there too much, but give other people the oppurtunity to agree with your logic and vote for the person.

[Divine Wind]

Sorry I havent taked part in any of the discussion for the last few days, my internet went kaput. I'll have a brief read through later on this evening if I get a moment.

[Kommodus]

Somewhere deep inside a secret lair, a Mafioso was relaxing after a long day of deception and murderous scheming. He was lounging in a comfortable recliner, his feet resting on an ottoman in front of him while he watched television. The room was dark except for the flickering light coming from the screen.

Creeeeaaak…

The Mafioso started, craning his neck behind him to look at the door that had just moved inexplicably. That’s odd, he thought, I was sure I closed it. Nevertheless it was hanging open by a few inches. He got up out of the chair and shut the door again, making sure it was latched securely. He then went back and sank into the chair, propping his feet up and taking a sip from his drink. Drifting off to sleep, his eyes were just beginning to close…

Suddenly, a terrible voice filled the room. “Doom is upon you!” it said.

The Mafioso’s eyes shot open, and what he saw filled him with terror. Before him stood the ghastly spectre of Kommodus, looking every bit like a rotting corpse. His clothes hung off him in tatters, revealing that much of his flesh had been eaten away by fish and by decay. About half his face was gone, leaving a grinning skull and hollow eye-sockets. A skeletal arm was pointed straight at the Mafioso.

“The dead demand justice!” pronounced the apparition in a guttural voice. “Their blood cries out against you! Abandon hope, for soon you who have dealt death to so many will also feel its icy black hand in turn!”

As it spoke, the phantom was slowly advancing upon the hapless Mafioso, who shrank back, quivering, into the chair. “Pl… please… please don’t…” he tried to say.

“Silence!” screamed the ghost of Kommodus. “Your judgment has come, and the day of wrath will be swift and terrible! There can be no escape, for your guilt smothers your rotting soul like a burial shroud!”

By now the spectre’s face was inches away from the terrified Mafioso. In a lowered voice, it said, “Prepare for the en-”

At that moment, Kommodus’ lower jaw broke off, fell to the ground, and rolled under the Mafioso’s chair.

“Aw, dai’it!” he tried to curse. Dropping to his knees, he began fumbling around underneath the chair, searching for the missing body part. Recovering it, he turned around, rose to his feet, and began affixing it back to the rest of his face, grumbling as he did so.

“I knew it was a bad idea to go with the rotting corpse form,” he sputtered. “They all said it would be cool; that I’d get a great reaction. Some reaction, indeed… that’s the last time I listen to…”

The Mafioso was still terrified, but now his terror was mixed with confusion and something approaching amusement. Suddenly the sound of laughter was heard coming from the once-again-open doorway. Both Kommodus and the Mafioso turned around sharply.

Standing in the doorway were the ghostly forms of Lemur, Drisos, and Major Robert Dump. Their translucence gave their deceased status away, but otherwise they looked quite normal. Drisos was holding a ghostly camcorder.

“Did you get that, man?” snickered Lemur.

“Every minute of it, right here on tape,” shot back Drisos. “Kommodus’ First Haunting – destined to be a classic!”

“Ha ha ha, everybody’s a comedian,” said Kommodus sarcastically, shaking his head. He appeared to be slightly annoyed, but also found the stunt rather amusing. “I really had him going there; can’t I mess with the guy a little before he joins us?”

“Memories, man,” responded MRD. “It’s all about the memories. All the newbies get some kind of joke played on them; you should’ve been there for what they did to me.”

Kommodus shrugged. “Alright, alright, you’ve had your fun. Now hand over the tape.”

“Not a chance, dude,” responded Drisos, removing the small tape from the camcorder and placing it in his pocket. “This is serious blackmail material here.”

“I’m not joking,” warned Kommodus seriously. “Give me the tape, right now, or I’ll come and get it myself.”

“Oh sure, I’d like to see you try,” taunted Drisos. With that, Kommodus suddenly charged at the group. The other three ghosts turned and ran from the room, laughing hysterically as they went.

As he reached the door, Kommodus’ left lower leg suddenly broke off, and he stumbled to the ground. “Oh for crying out – you better run, guys!” he shouted, fumbling to reattach the leg. He got up and began limping down the hall. “This isn’t over! You won’t be laughing when I get my regular form back…” His voice faded out.

The Mafioso collapsed back into his chair in a dead faint.

[Silver Rusher]

Day breaks in the Gameroom. All is quiet.

Some time during the morning, Dutch_guy woke up and staggered out of bed. After the multiple deaths last night, he had decided to go to the Elephant and Cannon Pub and drink.

And drink, and drink, and drink.

Somehow he had managed to make it back home in one piece, but now he was feeling it with the massive hangover. Groaning, DG made his way to the shower and turned the water on hot.

After that nice, hot shower, DG went downstairs to make some breakfast. But right before he turned the corner, someone swung a large, black skillet right in his face.

DG was sent reeling, the headache back. He could do nothing but watch as the person showed himself. He was dressed expertly, with an evil grin on his face. There was no doubt that this figure was the mafioso.

The mafioso spoke, knowing that DG could do nothing. "You should really be careful when you take your showers. Once you're in there, you have no idea what else is going on. Somebody might even be entering your house."

DG groaned.

The mafioso frowned. "Well, you're not much conversation." He then took out a machine gun and poured bullets into his target. Dutch_guy was gone.

On his way out, the mafioso fired his gun at random objects before driving off in the van marked "Vincenzo's Guttering."

Over the night, Chief of Police Divine Wind had been trying to fix his car which had recently ran out of fuel. He opened up the front bonnet and tinkered confusedly with random parts, not having a clue what was going on. Eventually he managed to screw up his car beyond all repair, when all he really needed to do was go to the shop down the road and buy some diesel.

As such, DW was not in a mood to talk when it came to addressing the villagers. His only two words were "Get voting." He didn't even describe his upcoming execution method.

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody
theRTWGuru
Dutch_guy

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro
Ignoramus

PM:
Destroyer of Hope

Still alive:
Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Crazed Rabbit
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
Cowhead418
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

[Silver Rusher]

****Double Post****

[Dutch_guy]

Why would someone want me dead, why ?!

:balloon2:

[Husar]

Why would someone want me dead, why ?!

:balloon2:
Because of the evidence this creates.:juggle2:

[Myrddraal]

Ok, so the accusation against me is that I haven't voted enough. It's true, and it's been due to indecision on my part. I'll try to correct this in my future voting, but I still don't really know who the hell I should be voting for. I don't want to resort to a random number generator!

Now Sasaki, I've answered everything else you've conjured up about me. I think you're just trying to repeatedly accuse me so that hopefully some of the accusations stick. Maybe I'm getting paranoid, but I'm tempted to think the mafia want me lynched. After all, killing me would prove me innocent, and lynched the townsfolk might stop listening/I might stop posting (don't count on it).

Sasaki has obviously enjoyed himself thinking up things to accuse me of. Seamus has made a valid point about my posting. I didn't really notice that I was following that tendency, and I'll try to correct it in future rounds. Otherwise, I can't prove anything I say, neither can anyone. If you think I'm a mafioso :evilgrin: you'd better lynch me, but I'm not, and I hope we can find someone a little more suspicious than someone who's been trying to post a lot.

Now onto the case of Dutch_Guy. He's a different kill from the previous ones, he's an experienced player. Does that mean anything? Food for thought.


About 'letting Sigurd off the hook'. We can lynch him if people feel he needs to be punished for his misleading comments, but I'm not confident that he's a mafioso. If he is, he must have posted those comments expecting to die the first time... I don't think a mafioso would sacrifice himself to get one townie lynched. The second time around, Ignoramus confirmed that he did send the PM. So Sigurd didn't just invent the story, it's wierd, but genuine. If we lynch him, it would be simply to be absolutely sure that he can't do any damage if he is mafia. I think we can find better evidence than the evidence against him, but if not, then I'll happily vote for him. (of course, I'd say the same if I was mafia :evilgrin:, but if people like Sasaki think that's going to stop me posting my thoughts, they're wrong)



PS, yes I did just post without voting. I hope all the contributions I've made to this thread have at least given others who's reasoning is better than mine some things to think about which they might have missed.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok, so the accusation against me is that I haven't voted enough

Actually that's not it at all. You're under suspicion for making subtle misdirections such as this, usually when pushing the bandwagon on an innocent, behavior that is classic mafia. And as for answering all of my charges--you did, but you neglect to mention that you admitted several of them to be true. Don't make it sound like you refuted all of them.

I think Sigurd could be pretty certain of not being lynched after Kommodus was proved innocent. He's good enough to argue his way out of that one, and he had his fellow mafia to help him. All they had to do was start a wagon against someone else. During the round I was lynched I pointed out several mafiosos, so much so that they had to fall back to killing only one person a night to make me look guilty. Sigurd got an email from Ignoramus that he thought he could pass off as guilty sounding and went for the lynch hoping to distract the town from the accusations of the previous round. I'm not going to let him get away with that though.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ok, I needed that round off. Now that I can think straight, my suspicion alarm is screaming at Masy.

Why? Just check out these two posts last round:


Why? He's not done anything...or is that what you're getting at?

I have my suspicions of several characters, but I shall wait until the oppertune moment before I divulge my info.



I intended to message Sigurd. Masy and Dutch_Guy are the mafia, while GH is the Godfather.

Why? Masy and Dutch_Guy both defended me when Sigurd accused me of being the Godfather. They wouldn't know who the Godfather was when they were chosen, so they believed Sigurd was right, and were anxious to protect their "Godfather". GH is the real Godfather, and knowing that I was faking it, he abstained from voting.


Odd. Here you're getting overly defensive and casting about wild, unsubstantiated assertions to draw the heat offa yourself.



I am innocent, and killing me will just waste an opportunity to kill the mafia. Almost certainly I shall be killed by the mafia next turn, so you needn't vote for me.

Not that my vote is going to do any good, but anyway:

Vote: General Hankerchief


And here you're playing the old "I'm resigned to my fate, I don't really care" card.

Mafia? Perhaps. You've drawn the most suspicion to yourself this round,

Vote: Ignoramus

Mainly, I want to see this information you have. Are you playing the Detective? Or are you actually the Detective? Answers please.

Myrddraal has also aroused my suspicions, but I am convinced of Sasaki's guilt, so unless he is proven innocent, I will continue to believe that Myrddraal is a townie.

Vote: Abstain

For now.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Mainly, I want to see this information you have. Are you playing the Detective? Or are you actually the Detective? Answers please.

uh, just curious, why do you want to know if Masy is the detective? Why would you ask him to reveal himself? Pretty blatant Role-fishing.


Nice "non-sigurd" wagon attempt though.

[GeneralHankerchief]

It sounds like he's pretending to be the Detective to me. I just want to see if he's legit or means something else.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It sounds like he's pretending to be the Detective to me. I just want to see if he's legit or means something else.

But if he is legit then you just pointed him out to the mafia. Or you are the mafia and are trying to figure out if he is detective for more nefarious reasons. It's a pretty common mafia-tell.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Why would anyone who actually is the Detective post this:


I have my suspicions of several characters, but I shall wait until the oppertune moment before I divulge my info.

Unless Masy is a terrible Detective, there would be no way that he would post this if he actually was the Detective.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why would anyone who actually is the Detective post this:



Unless Masy is a terrible Detective, there would be no way that he would post this if he actually was the Detective.

You don't know which it is and you're trying to figure it out (because you want to kill him if he is detective :p )...that's why you asked him "are you actually the detective".

If he was detective he wouldn't have "suspicions" he would know for sure. Everyone has suspicions, that post doesn't rule him out for detective.


edit: I'll stop posting about this now before you get us entirely off the sigurd/myrddraal track.

[Myrddraal]

During the round I was lynched I pointed out several mafiosos, so much so that they had to fall back to killing only one person a night to make me look guilty.

Well that's one point of view... ... ... ... ... and "several" is the word. It was six in total I think. Just 3 times as many as there are actual mafia, you were doing the classic mafia attempt to save yourself by accusing others. You didn't post any accusations before anyone suspected you, very dodgy. A couple of rounds ago you defended Don C despite the earlier voting for him. People were voting for a reason, he's been acting very suspiciously.

Well I don't think Sigurd is suspicious. I won't vote for him just to clear my name, though it is tempting.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well that's one point of view... ... ... ... ... and "several" is the word. It was six in total I think. Just 3 times as many as there are actual mafia, you were doing the classic mafia attempt to save yourself by accusing others. You didn't post any accusations before anyone suspected you, very dodgy. A couple of rounds ago you defended Don C despite the earlier voting for him. People were voting for a reason, he's been acting very suspiciously.

Well I don't think Sigurd is suspicious. I won't vote for him just to clear my name, though it is tempting.

It's hard to narrow it down exactly at this stage in the game (there are 3 mafiosi btw not 2). Seamus for example had acted suspiciously up to that point but has since redeemed himself. The "classic mafia" attempt would be to accuse one person and attempt to get that person lynched. Anyway, if I was mafia, where were my comrades in arms? Surely it wouldn't have been that hard to send a couple votes in another direction, start a case against someone else, rather than let one of your own be lynched and drop you down to 1 kill per night. Answer me that.

I did post accusations before I was suspected, that's blatantly false. They weren't very strong up to that point because it was only round three.


Sasaki is now accusing everyone who posts

eh? One is a poor statistical sample. How about you actually address my point against GeneralH? That's a poor attempt to discredit me.

[Husar]

Sasaki is dead, we might want to try and find the other/real mafiosi instead of trying to make Sasaki admit his guilt, this won't win the game for us townsmen.
Sigurd could be lynched for those two accusations, Myrd might be lynched for being accused by Sasaki, so might GH.
And then we have some people like EMFM, BKS and others who have not been that active, though I did not count any posts. While some are discussing the guilt of a dead man, the real mafia may be laughing in the background.:smash:

[Crazed Rabbit]

So, anyone remember who Sasaki was accusing before and after he died? We're still going at one kill per night, the mafia is either trying harder to keep up the charade or Sasaki is mafia.

I recall Sasaki said he thought Seamus completely innocent, but offered no reasoning in support. Was he trying to protect his fellow mafioso? Or did he think he'd be presumed guilty and wanted to cast suspicion on innocent people? ALso, who defended him?

Of these, at least one, probably two, are mafiosos:

Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Crazed Rabbit
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
Cowhead418
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

We could have killed both mafia henchmen, or just one. I'm thinking just one so far. Assuming Sasaki is mafia (likely), who would have picked him? He is an experience player, who else would the godfather have picked?

Masy is suspicious, as is Myrd and Seamus. We need more discussion though, and enough beating of the dead horse that is Sasaki.

EDIT:
Voting records on the round Sasaki got stoned. To death.
Tally:

Sasaki Kojiro - 4 votes (GeneralHankerchief, Csar, Crazed Rabbit, Don Corleone)
Abstain - 3 (Dutch_guy, Myrddraal, Evil_Maniac From Mars)
Don Corleone - 2 votes (Xiahou, Husar)
Sigurd Fafnesbane - 1 vote (Divine Wind)
GeneralHankerchief - 1 vote (Sasaki Kojiro)
theRTWGuru - 1 vote (Cowhead418)
No Lynch - 1 vote (theRTWGuru)
No vote - 7 (Masy, Big King Sanctaphrax, Proletariat, Seamus Fernanagh, Ignoramus, Peasant Phill, Destroyer of Hope)
CR

[Myrddraal]

The last thing Sasaki did before being lynched, was move to defend Don C, who I notice has gone off the radar...

@Sasaki,I agree about GH, so I'm hardly going to answer it. Though I think it's a bit harsh to accuse someone full out on such a weak point. It's simply been added to my suspiciousness list.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So, anyone remember who Sasaki was accusing before and after he died? We're still going at one kill per night, the mafia is either trying harder to keep up the charade or Sasaki is mafia.

This is why it is still important Husar. Consider this: if I was innocent and my accusations were correct (at least some of them) the mafia would be forced to kill only one, otherwise they would prove my innocence and give creedence to my suspicions. If I was guilty then there is something to learn from that also.

So let's hear why Crazed is so convinced I was guilty. That there was only one kill the night after doesn't prove anything (see Godfather pt 1). How do you answer my point about my supposed comrade mafiosos letting me be lynched, Crazed? Don C was a popular choice, surely they could have drummed up a couple votes on him. No mafioso will be lynched with only 4 votes this early in the game.


I recall Sasaki said he thought Seamus completely innocent, but offered no reasoning in support. Was he trying to protect his fellow mafioso? Or did he think he'd be presumed guilty and wanted to cast suspicion on innocent people? ALso, who defended him?

More falsehoods! I did offer reason. Sigurds frame attempt against Ignoramus attempted to frame Seamus as well. That's a good indication. Also, my original suspicion of him was due to activity that was markedly different from last game, but it turned out he was on vacation or something.


Of these, at least one, probably two, are mafiosos:

Three. Although I suppose we can't technically clear Ignoramus.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The last thing Sasaki did before being lynched, was move to defend Don C, who I notice has gone off the radar...


eh? Where was this. I do have to find him less suspicious now that you and Sigurd have moved up in my suspicions. I'd put you Sigurd and Crazed as the most likely right now, with GeneralH, don and maybe Xiahou being my next three.

Especially since this post is just another attempt at casting suspicion somewhere other than Sigurd. If Sigurd was mafia this is exactly what the mafia would do.


Anyway, if I was mafia, where were my comrades in arms? Surely it wouldn't have been that hard to send a couple votes in another direction, start a case against someone else, rather than let one of your own be lynched and drop you down to 1 kill per night. Answer me that.

Any answer to this Myrddraal?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ok, let me make one thing clear:

Sigurd is not in the mafia.

A couple of things can determine this. First of all, the whole Kommodus thing. If Sigurd was really out to get Kommodus, then why were there two kills immediately following K's lynching? Because of this, Kommodus was proven innocent.

If Sigurd was smart (which he is), he would only go to one kill per round. Because then Kommodus would be under suspicion, and if Sigurd wanted to take out a threat then he would make sure that K was not proven innocent.

Second, Sigurd has now made two large mistakes in the game regarding lynchings. If you remember in Gotta Have More Mafia, he played an almost perfect game. The fact that he his screwed up this badly this early in the game is testament to his innocence.

~~~~~~~

Finally, Sasaki, I am convinced of your mafiosery and thus your going after of Rabbit, Sigurd, and Myrddraal pretty much confirms their innocence to me.

[Myrddraal]

Well sasaki, since you were doomed, it would hardly have been a wise move for two people to step up and defend you, they've have been lynched one after the other. You know this as well as I do.


eh? Where was this.
Do I really have to bother going back through the thread to find it, or have you remembered yet... You're whole attack on me started because I accused Don C.

Anyway we must focus on who out of the remaining people are mafia, not on wether you are... I know I shouldn't have replied to you Sasaki, but I can't resist answering your accusations.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well sasaki, since you were doomed, it would hardly have been a wise move for two people to step up and defend you, they've have been lynched one after the other. You know this as well as I do.

I wasn't doomed. I had 4 votes in the end. And if they stepped up and defended me and I wasn't lynched, how would that make them suspicious? I'm sorry, your argument doesn't follow.



Do I really have to bother going back through the thread to find it, or have you remembered yet... You're whole attack on me started because I accused Don C.

Anyway we must focus on who out of the remaining people are mafia, not on wether you are... I know I shouldn't have replied to you Sasaki, but I can't resist answering your accusations.

Yes, that was several pages before I was lynched so I was confused. And I didn't accuse you because you attacked don c, I put a halt to what could have been a bandwagon on someone who I didn't think was that suspicious at the time...it's strange that you leave no room for change of opinion.

Your last paragraph is poor strategy as I already explained. Of course you don't want my innocence discussed, if people are shown the truth they will lynch you and your mafia allies.

@GH, well you are looking more like a townie who has merely had the wool pulled over his eyes I'll give you that. I find it odd that you think Sigurd is innocent because he got 2 innocent people lynched. It's the very fact that Sigurd is smart that makes me think he is mafia, his logic is usually so much better than his arguments against Kommodus and Ignoramus. And as I said in my last post, he had much to gain from getting them lynched. Also, if I were mafia would I really be so outspoken in my accusations? Or mightn't I accuse one of my fellow mafiosos? I wouldn't rule any of them out, please consider the evidence against them on it's own merits.


Most of the town is really quiet. Speak up, people. Me, GH, Myrd, and Crazed are the only ones who've really posted so far.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

For those following the lurker/inactive theory:

Voters with 1 active (naming someone) vote or fewer in 4.5 rounds:

Evil Maniac: DNV, DNV, Abstain, Abstain, DNV
Myrdraal: Abstain, DNV, Kommodus, Abstain, DNV
Peasant Phil: General Hankerchief, Abstain, Abstain, DNV, DNV

Voters with 2 active votes in 4.5 rounds:

Big King S': Dutch Guy, Drisos, Abstain, DNV, DNV
Masy: Abstain, Drisos, DNV, DNV, Ignoramus
Proletariat: Abstain, DNV, Husar, DNV, Ignoramus
Sigurd: Abstain, Abstain, Kommodus, DNV*, Ignoramus.

* voted late for Don Corleone.

Of 16 townies who live and breathe:

1 must be a mafioso godfather.

As many as 3 mafiosi may still live -- or more if there is a hidden role.

7 of our 16 surviving voters have lodged a total of 10 "active" votes in 35 opportunities, with 13 votes not made at all.

Myrdraal and Sigurd have posted actively.

Big King S' and Masy have posted less frequently.

Evil Maniac, Peasant Phil, and Proletariat have posted very little whatsoever.

[Cowhead418]

I'm going to Vote: Myrd. You are acting very suspicious - throwing around accusations and posting quite a bit but strangely you haven't voted in a few rounds. The way you are defending yourself is also suspicious and you seem to be trying to throw off suspicion by asserting that you might be in the mafia.

However, while I believe you are probably mafia, I don't think you are the godfather. As Sasaki pointed out, most of the town is very quiet and this allows the mafia to hide in the shadows so to speak. They can post very little and be safe in the knowledge that there are too many lurkers with little clues to effectively decide who could be guilty. This is not good. There are also very few people actually forming votes (meaning not abstaining). This is a mafia heaven right now. The current situation needs to change if we are to win. The Godfather could be among the lurkers and it would be extremely difficult to differentiate between them. Seamus has the right idea, we must keep tabs on these people.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Thanks, Sasaki. I was wondering about who else is a townie, and you go and name GH, Sigurd, and Myrd.


I wasn't doomed. I had 4 votes in the end. And if they stepped up and defended me and I wasn't lynched, how would that make them suspicious? I'm sorry, your argument doesn't follow.
Who's to say they didn't? Maybe Xiahou or Husar are mafia. The mafia realized your ship was sinking, and wasn't going go down with you.
Oh yeah...

So let's hear why Crazed is so convinced I was guilty.
You speak with a forked tongue.

Also, mafia kills have been at 1 a round twice now - unlike their earlier attempt.


Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief - Unlikely
Proletariat - Lurker
Don Corleone - Unlikely
Seamus Fernanagh - ?
Evil_Maniac From Mars - Lurker
Crazed Rabbit -No
Xiahou
Peasant Phill - Lurker
Cowhead418
Sigurd Fafnesbane - Very Unlikely
Husar ?
Divine Wind
Myrddraal - Very Unlikely

Anyone else have comments on this list?

CR

[Xiahou]

Is BKS's silence uncharacteristic? He seemed alot more active in the last game I played.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief - likely
Proletariat - Lurker
Don Corleone - likely
Seamus Fernanagh - No
Evil_Maniac From Mars - Lurker
Crazed Rabbit -Yes
Xiahou
Peasant Phill - Lurker
Cowhead418
Sigurd Fafnesbane - Very likely
Husar ?
Divine Wind
Myrddraal - Very likely



Anyone else have comments on this list?

CR

Looks pretty good to me ~D

[Csargo]

Sorry guys I haven't been very active in this I have some real life issues that have to be settled out before I can really get into this. I have read the thread over not very good I might add.

I don't have a vote for this round yet I'm so confused with all the arguing :dizzy2:

Vote: Abstain


Is BKS's silence uncharacteristic? He seemed alot more active in the last game I played.

Yeah I found that kind of odd.

[Sigurd]

We are just making enough noise here that we can’t hear the laughter of the mafia.
As long as they choose to kill only one player each round, Sasaki is effectively a highly suspicious player and anything he has to say should be considered as coming from the mouth of a dead Mafioso. Ergo he is full of it.
The mafia is however constrained with only one kill and will have trouble winning this game in the end as the detective will have time to do a thorough investigation.
Sasaki is probably another townie but he disrupts the thought process of the rest of us. I suggest the detective investigates Sasaki and give us the result when you feel it is the right time to do so. Hopefully you will give us a Mafioso to lynch as well. Until then

Sasaki should not have a say in how we conduct our investigation as he will lead us astray if he is Mafioso. Right now he should be considered as one.

You Sasaki should consider this and give the remaining townies your trust that they will pull this off themselves.
If this entails lynching Me, GH and Myrddraal so be it. You will still have 3 rounds to get the real mafia after this. But if none of us was mafia you have 3 Mafiosi alive and that means mafia victory.

If GH, Myrddraal and I are innocent it will be in the Mafia’s interest to not target us at night. However they will want to put guilt our way so that we will be prime candidates for a lynching. It is interesting that Sasaki doing everything in his power to keep the attention of the townies directed at us.
We need to take back the control and get the lurkers talking.

Proletariat has been quiet and it could be that she is lurking for other reasons than being a Mafioso. I will however want her input and I therefore cast a vote in her direction.

Vote:Proletariat

[GeneralHankerchief]

There's too many inactives around. Since Silver is being pretty lenient with the Wrath of God, we need to send these people a message.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: EMFM

[Don Corleone]

Guys, whether anyone is aware of it or not, Sasaki is trying to help his mafia buddies from beyond the grave. His incessant chatter and stream of accusations individually make sense. But when you add them all up, the sum total drowns out any real information in a flood of red herrings. Just look at the way he modified Crazed Rabbit's suspect list... 5 possibly 7 mafia suspects, when there's only 3, tops!!! Try to resist the urge to engage him, he's just trying to spin us in circles. I still stand by the fact that the mafia haven't produced two kills since he died.

I'm afraid I'm really at a loss. I don't like the idea of accusing people, just to get an explanation out of them, because now any comments are tainted with "Well, they're just saying that to cover for themselves".

Also, did anybody else find Dutch_Guy an odd mafia target? He hadn't said boo up until then. I guess he must have PM'd the wrong guy...

I'm afraid I don't have enough of a history to know who lurks by nature and who's doing it just to hide. I think absentions do more harm then good though at this point. The only thing I'm reasonably confident in is that Sasaki was mafia. Using that as my compass point, the person who's been making the same arguments as Sasaki, but from a different angle:

Vote: Xiahou

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Dutch Guy was an inspired hit.

As has been discussed, the same "low profile" strategy that works for a mafioso/a is also pretty solid for a detective. So, if our mafiosi are hoping to take out the detective but have no solid evidence as to who the detective is, a low profiler who isn't under fire at all (got 1 vote from BKS in round #1) makes a fair choice.

Xiahou is an interesting choice Don, but I'm uncertain.

A sense of "wrongness" prompts my vote. I've pored over the records, and I just can't make sense of Myrdraal's approach, nor of BKS'. To stir things up, I'll suggest....

Vote: Big King Sanctphrax

[Myrddraal]

because now any comments are tainted with "Well, they're just saying that to cover for themselves".

I'm feeling that.


Also, did anybody else find Dutch_Guy an odd mafia target? He hadn't said boo up until then. I guess he must have PM'd the wrong guy...

Yes! This is a point I made in the chat. Isn't Dutch_Guy an experienced player? Which is different from the previous kills. I'm seeing a couple (maybe more) possible reasons for going for Dutch_Guy.

1. They're trying to get the slightly suspicious but not very players in the hope of catching the detective...

2. The mafia are lurkers, they've been trying to kill of those who aren't suspicious but now there aren't many lurkers left who aren't mafia. Killing more lurkers would reveal their identity through process of elimination so they've decided to go for the slightly more suspicious people, without going for those who are likely to be lynched.

I didn't know that BKS has posted less than his usual amount in previous games, but combine Seamus' post with point 2 above and it makes me suspicious. So for now, Vote:BKS


EDIT: Surely I've attracted enough suspicion by now to be investigated by the detective. Here's hoping for a detective reveal soon...

[Husar]

it just came to my mind...Evil Mafia from Mars...

Vote: EMFM

[Don Corleone]

Surely I've attracted enough suspicion by now to be investigated by the detective. Here's hoping for a detective reveal soon...

Assuming the detective hasn't been snuffed or lynched already... can the detective 'reveal' from beyond the grave?

Edit: I propose a seance.... "Spirit of the detective... reveal yourself.... " :singer:

[Don Corleone]

it just came to my mind...Evil Mafia from Mars...

Vote: EMFM

Okay, this is suspicious... this is worse than a random vote: "I have a reason, but I'm not going to give anyone a clue what it might be". Come on...

[Husar]

This is why it is still important Husar. Consider this: if I was innocent and my accusations were correct (at least some of them) the mafia would be forced to kill only one, otherwise they would prove my innocence and give creedence to my suspicions. If I was guilty then there is something to learn from that also.
This is why you are not important:
1. you cannot/do not name what exactly we could learn from your guilt

2. point 1 could by itself prove your guilt because that is the only reason for you not to give a hint there

3. if the mafia are among the lurkers, your accusations still won't lead us anywhere since you didn't accuse any lurker which leads me to three possible explanations:
1) you know they are unlikely to respond and thus not good for your distraction strategy
2) one or two lurkers are your mafia buddies and you don't want us to talk about them
3) you are as distracted as many others here and focus only on active people

4. this talk didn't lead anywhere yet and there was no final solution in sight, it was just discussing back and forth about trivial stuff, mentioning the obvious again and again while completely ignoring some players who may be guilty as well

This should also clarify my vote, we cannot let anyone get away with lurking, the choice of who of the lurkers to vote for was more or less random.

[Don Corleone]

This should also clarify my vote, we cannot let anyone get away with lurking, the choice of who of the lurkers to vote for was more or less random.

I'll buy that. You're right, that we could be falling into the trap of limiting ourselves to the subset of folks that might actually post once a game-day.

Unvote: Xiahou
Vote: EMFM

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well that's 3 for the martian and 2 for the king.

I'd like to hear from either. If not, EMFM is the person with the fewest active votes -- zero -- thus far.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

We need some posts from these lurkers...anyone who doesn't respond this round should be mod killed, they'll just be a distraction otherwise.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well, noble Gamemaster Silver's rule is 3 missed in a row or 5 overall and you're gone.

So BKS and Phil would be exiting stage left if they do not lodge a vote.

[Proletariat]

I'm posting for the sake of posting here. Been busy with some real life stuff, but I have been following along. No real leads here, everyone seems so full of crap at this point I'm not sure at all who to vote for.

I'll echo Husar here and go along with stringing up a lurker.

Vote: EMFM

[Xiahou]

Well, noble Gamemaster Silver's rule is 3 missed in a row or 5 overall and you're gone.

So BKS and Phil would be exiting stage left if they do not lodge a vote.I was going to vote for BKS, but it looks like he'll be sorted out this turn regardless. If he's just inactive, he'll go away this turn- if he votes to save his skin, I'll think it suspicious.

Vote:EMFM

[Divine Wind]

I keep reading through these posts thinking about which person I want to vote for, then I remember I cant actually vote! :furious3:

In the current situation I believe that the mafia will be bandwagoning this *lets kill the lurkers off* strategy. Another comfortable round for them.

Its pretty obvious that the mafia will be somewhat active, as they do need to PM silver rusher for the game to continue, so anyone that hasnt posted like Phil or BKS, is just a waste of a vote.

At the moment im somewhat suspicious of GHC. Mainly because ive noticed hes got rather defensive in this game of mafia, than in previous games. Something to hide perhaps?

[Don Corleone]

I keep reading through these posts thinking about which person I want to vote for, then I remember I cant actually vote! :furious3:

In the current situation I believe that the mafia will be bandwagoning this *lets kill the lurkers off* strategy. Another comfortable round for them.

Its pretty obvious that the mafia will be somewhat active, as they do need to PM silver rusher for the game to continue, so anyone that hasnt posted like Phil or BKS, is just a waste of a vote.

At the moment im somewhat suspicious of GHC. Mainly because ive noticed hes got rather defensive in this game of mafia, than in previous games. Something to hide perhaps?

I agree that Mafia that want to appear as active posters will bandwagon on the 'let's get the lurkers' trend.

I disagree that they couldn't be lurkers. There's a difference between lurking (here, but not posting) and inactive (not bothering to check in at all). There's no reason Peasant Phil or BKS couldn't be reading the thread closely, not posting, and PMing their kills in to Silver Rusher.

As for GHC getting testy/defensive, it wasn't the accusations that Sasaki was making that got GHC upset, it was the tone of them.

Let's remember, there's one Godfather and one mafia (until they prove to us otherwise with two kills) so any defense that relies on their being two mafia left is suspect at best. :yes:

[Masy]

GH, firstly, if I was in fact detective, I would not be so foolish as to make any hint to the mafia of my role.

Secondly:


Ok, I needed that round off. Now that I can think straight, my suspicion alarm is screaming at Masy.

Why? Just check out these two posts last round:

If I am indeed provoking you into wild bellows, why haven't you voted for me? Any genuine townie would surely act upon their suspicions, especially one as vocal as this (suspicion that is, though you are a vocal player too.)...
Rather, you pick EMFM, from which I can draw but three conclusions:

1) You truly believe EMFM is in the mafia, because of his lack of participation (which I admit is galling, why sign up for a game then not take part?) - Quite possible, a lurking strategy could indeed be effective, as it is assumed no mafia would try one.

2) You HATE lurkers, so much so that you would wish them expunged from the game immediatly, rather than letting Silver Rusher deal with him. - Again, entirely possible.

3) You are in the mafia, and wish to draw suspicions upon moi, but then not really commit yourself to anything.- This I am not sure about. You did not really claim I was mafia, but rather that I was acting suspiciously. However, why would a townie try and point out that they believed someone was detective? Surely it is in the towns benefit to keep any slip ups by a detective hush hush...

-edit-

Oh, and as for who my suspicions are (and suspicions they remain, I have no facts), well, sadly, Dutch_Guy was on my radar, but obviously no more. Not confident of anyone else yet, I want to wait and see how a few folks play out.

[Silver Rusher]

*****Voting Closed*****

[GeneralHankerchief]

GH, firstly, if I was in fact detective, I would not be so foolish as to make any hint to the mafia of my role.

Secondly:



If I am indeed provoking you into wild bellows, why haven't you voted for me? Any genuine townie would surely act upon their suspicions, especially one as vocal as this (suspicion that is, though you are a vocal player too.)...
Rather, you pick EMFM, from which I can draw but three conclusions:

1) You truly believe EMFM is in the mafia, because of his lack of participation (which I admit is galling, why sign up for a game then not take part?) - Quite possible, a lurking strategy could indeed be effective, as it is assumed no mafia would try one.

2) You HATE lurkers, so much so that you would wish them expunged from the game immediatly, rather than letting Silver Rusher deal with him. - Again, entirely possible.

3) You are in the mafia, and wish to draw suspicions upon moi, but then not really commit yourself to anything.- This I am not sure about. You did not really claim I was mafia, but rather that I was acting suspiciously. However, why would a townie try and point out that they believed someone was detective? Surely it is in the towns benefit to keep any slip ups by a detective hush hush...

-edit-

Oh, and as for who my suspicions are (and suspicions they remain, I have no facts), well, sadly, Dutch_Guy was on my radar, but obviously no more. Not confident of anyone else yet, I want to wait and see how a few folks play out.

I wasn't saying that you were the Detective - I know that you're a good enough player not to make those mistakes - rather a mafioso pretending to be the Detective.

However, I'm satisfied at your response. The reason I didn't vote for you was because I wanted to see your defense before I committed. I voted for EMFM because I knew I wouldn't get on again until voting was over (and I was right), and wanted to send a message to the lurkers.

[Silver Rusher]

Evening in the Gameroom.

Voting? What was this 'voting'? Peasant Phill had no idea what was even going on in the Gameroom, and the time taken to actually drive in his tractor for 5 minutes to the town was too much for him at any rate. He lived on a 'farm' a very short distance outside the town, yet had only ever once visited it. The 'huge' amount of technology scared him, and he never returned.

PP's real name was Phillery and odd wouldn't come close to describing his family. He was a polygamist, with 3 wives. 1 was his sister, Mary-John, another was his sister and also cousin Josefeen, and finally there was Milly, his mother and 2nd aunt. By these 3 wives, and especially Milly (with whom he had an intimate and overtly sexual relationship), he had a total of 237 children. All but 2 of these had been eaten in family meals and even snacks in the past, and the only two remaining were Marjeree and Billy-Bob MaGee.

During that cold November day Billy-Bob Magee was out in the farm (farm is a bad word, as all PP owned was a run down shed for a house, a few pots to grow wheat in and several animals running rampant around the outside of the shed with nowhere to eat) chopping wood for a fire. There were no trees around, and as his father was ruthless about this he crudely ripped a piece of wood from the house to avoid trouble. Unfortunately, this caused the house shed to fall down but neither him nor his father (sitting on the toilet) seemed to notice.

Billy-Bob raised the axe above his head and struck down with large force upon the wood. The axe bounced off and hit him in the face. He was holding the axe the wrong way round.

He started screaming. "Pa! Pa!" he began in his yokelly, high-pitched, breaking voice, "I done chopped my sneezer with the choppin stick, and now its stuck!"

PP put down his Raccoon Eater's Digest, which he bought only for the pictures of sumptuous raccoon meat as he could not read, and, only just noticing what had happened, jumped off the chamber pot and ran over without pulling up his trousers.

"I'm coming, Billy-Bob!" he searched the rubble and picked up a lead firing musket, still hardly noticing that his shed had fallen down. "I'll shoot it off!" he said.

"Tankers, Pa." These were Billy-Bob's last words. PP picked up the gun, aimed, and fired. He missed the axe very badly and instead fired it at his son's groin. "Oops." he clumsily uttered before shooting again. This time, it hit, but had the wrong effect. It ricocheted off the axe and landed in Billy-Bob's head. His son was already on the ground from the first shot, but this time he was dead.

Later, PP got over the death of his son and prepared for a feast. He didn't bother cooking the meat. Instead, he sliced off a fine piece of groin meat and put it in his mouth. Had he chewed, he would have noticed the lead musket ball concealed in the meat. But no, he swallowed it whole and died shortly afterwards from choking.

Big King Sanctaphrax was commonly regarded as the filthy, stupid rat of the Gameroom, with an ape-like posture, startlingly low IQ and complet and utter lack of hygiene. He never washed, but hit on soon-after screaming women a lot of the time anyway. His stench could be found all over town. It was that bad.

There had once been a petition to exile BKS from the Gameroom. His stench, primitive stupidity and filthy appearance made him very much unwanted. However, the government banned the petition on the grounds that it was 'abuse to animals', assuming BKS to be a shaved gorilla rather than a human. He couldn't even vote on executions because the people wouldn't let him near the centre of town. Today, though, BKS was out to change all that. He decided that, after all those years, he would actually have a shower.

The assistants at the local supermarket ran in horror when they saw him. Thanks to his mystical powers he was able to steal 5 bottles of shower gel, 2 bottles of conditioner and 3 of shampoo, plus several women's fragrances.

He arrived at home, walked towards the washroom and turned towards where the shower used to be. He didn't realise in all that time, but he had replaced his shower with a carpet-space for gone off meat. This he liked to eat when on the toilet.

So, BKS went next door. Nobody lived there for obvious reasons, so he was able to smash the open window and climb through. He sustained many cuts from this, but he enjoyed the pain as the filth covering his body entered them. It was at that point that he forgot the health products he had accumulated.

He climbed back through the window, resulting in more cuts and scars, and walked back to his dump of a house. There he picked up the 'goods' and ran back, climbing through the glass-spiked hole in the already open window. Then he clambered upstairs, drooling, and entered the shower room. At least he thought he did. He managed to search every room in the entire house before actually finding the shower.

BKS hopped inside, not bothering to remove his filthy rags or close the door.

As he had never actually used a shower before, it took him a while to figure out how to turn it on. When he finally managed to, he picked up the bottle of shampoo on the floor and clumsily landed it on his long, messy hair, filled with a lot more creatures than just lice. He emptied out the entire bottle, and somehow managed to get huge blobs of it in his eyes when he was aiming for the back of his hair. BKS enjoyed the pain, and so he did not close his eyes, but he could not see.

The lack of sight caused his stumble to develop into a slip-up. He fell, and his face connected sharply with the wall. His rot-weakened skull collapsed and brains were allowed to spew outwards.

At execution time, the townspeople had no idea what the execution method was going to be. They also didn't know about PP's or BKS' demise as they were cut off from society, but would probably have been happy to hear of it if they even cared at all.

Without any word from Chief of Police Divine Wind, Evil_Maniac From Mars was shoved into the back of a truck parked in the centre of town. The back of the truck was completely empty but also 100% escape proof, so EMFM had nothing to do but make a brief, failed attempt at an escape and then wait.

DW got into the front of the truck, turned on the engine and drove off. The townspeople were left completely clueless.

The truck rumbled to a halt. EMFM knew his death was near. DW got out of the front and opened the back door, grabbing him forcefully and dragging him out. Upon exit of the vehicle, EMFM noticed that they had parked outside a large research facility overlooking a cliff.

DW pulled EMFM towards the facility, dragging him above the ground. EMFM screamed wildly and tried to resist, also catching a glimpse of a jar in DW's hand labelled "AHB". The jar was humming strangely, but it was opaque and so EMFM could not see inside.

"Hey, quiet down will y-" DW turned around for a brief moment, before losing his grip on the pathway and beginning his descent towards the bottom of the cliff. He dropped the jar he was holding, which smashed against the rocky path.

EMFM smiled. Now was his chance to escape. But when he realised why the jar was humming his smile faded. It had been full of Africanized Honeybees, more commonly known as African Killer Bees. EMFM tried to run, but the bees swarmed him and he was stung in many places. He fell to the ground, dead.

Meanwhile, DW was still falling down the cliff. But in an extremely lucky coincidence somebody had abandoned a super-springy trampoline at the bottom, and he was saved. He later returned to the Gameroom with minor injuries.

Tally:
Evil_Maniac from Mars - 5 votes (Don Corleone, General Hankerchief, Husar, Proletariat, Xiahou) :skull:
Big King Sanctaphrax - 2 votes (Myrddraal, Seamus Fermanagh)
Proletariat - 1 vote (Sigurd Fafnesbane)
Myrddraal - 1 vote (Cowhead418)
Abstain - 1 (Csar)
No Vote - 6 (Big King Sanctaphrax, Crazed Rabbit, Evil_Maniac from Mars, Masy, Peasant Phill)

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody
theRTWGuru
Dutch_guy

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro
Ignoramus
Evil_Maniac From Mars

PM:
Destroyer of Hope

Wrath of God:
Big King Sanctaphrax
Peasant Phill

Still alive:
Masy
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Crazed Rabbit
Xiahou
Cowhead418
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

PM's please.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

We started this voting round at 16. EMFM is gone, and Silver may kill BKS and Phil on non-participation. Divine Wind cannot vote. Unless EMFM is the Godfather, we will lose at least one more to the next round of murder.

EDIT: Wrath of god enacted, see above.

That would leave 11 voting townies, 2 of whom are mafiosi.

If the mafia has been playing us, then we add one murder and the numbers become 10, 3 mafia.

We could rapidly be approaching an endgame here -- and the information is still unclear.

[Xiahou]

I think we're fast approaching the time for a detective to step forward and clear some of the remaining townies. I'm no expert here, but I think with our dwindling numbers it'd be extremely beneficial if we could rule out a number of townsfolk as potential mafiosos. :yes:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

After tonight:

9 townies 3 mafia
wrong lynch:
7 townies 3 mafia
wrong lynch:
4 townies 3 mafia
game over since divine wind can't vote

In other words lynch two more townies and we lose. You let the mafia get an easy lynch today. I was going to argue against it but it seemed likely to be counterproductive. I urge the town to take a look at the people I've accused without regard to what I've said which evidently you feel you can't trust.

If we lynch one mafioso we buy an extra two rounds. I guess a fair bit depends on the detective. Unfortunatly an innocent result is worthless (unless it's on me because I can't be godfather), only a guilty result will be helpful. Still, given the breakdown if you get a guilty result it would be best to speak up. Investigating me if that's allowed may actually give the most information.

I'm wondering what the twist is going to be.


I think we're fast approaching the time for a detective to step forward and clear some of the remaining townies. I'm no expert here, but I think with our dwindling numbers it'd be extremely beneficial if we could rule out a number of townsfolk as potential mafiosos.

We can't clear any townies since the Godfather will appear innocent.

[Don Corleone]

Nobody answered my earlier question. Can the detective reaveal what he knew at the time of his death if he got offed?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Nobody answered my earlier question. Can the detective reaveal what he knew at the time of his death if he got offed?

Usually not.

[Xiahou]

We can't clear any townies since the Godfather will appear innocent.Ah yes, that.... :shame:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

btw, congrats Silver, this game is second only to Mafia III, and with another 170 or so posts will pass it up.

So what do you people think about the detective's choice tonight? Should he/she investigate me?

[Husar]

btw, congrats Silver, this game is second only to Mafia III, and with another 170 or so posts will pass it up.

So what do you people think about the detective's choice tonight? Should he/she investigate me?
I don't know what to say, my world just collapsed...
You may want to buy some time for your fellow mafiosi or you really are innocent. And how do you know that the detective is still alive?
Why are you still trying to be important?
You're an attention-whore.~;)

[Cowhead418]

After tonight:

9 townies 3 mafia
wrong lynch:
7 townies 3 mafia
wrong lynch:
4 townies 3 mafia
game over since divine wind can't vote

In other words lynch two more townies and we lose. You let the mafia get an easy lynch today. I was going to argue against it but it seemed likely to be counterproductive. I urge the town to take a look at the people I've accused without regard to what I've said which evidently you feel you can't trust.

If we lynch one mafioso we buy an extra two rounds. I guess a fair bit depends on the detective. Unfortunatly an innocent result is worthless (unless it's on me because I can't be godfather), only a guilty result will be helpful. Still, given the breakdown if you get a guilty result it would be best to speak up. Investigating me if that's allowed may actually give the most information.

I'm wondering what the twist is going to be.



We can't clear any townies since the Godfather will appear innocent.Remember, if we lynch the Godfather then we win. The other two mafiosi do not need to be executed for victory. And you are assuming that the mafia will go back to two kills a night. If there really are three left, then the only reason they'd want to put up a charade of one kill a night would mean that they are trying to protect one of the people Sasaki accused. Or perhaps they just want us to think that way.:inquisitive:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, it's only the last night that they'd go back to two. And yes, hopefully we'll execute the Godfather. My bet is on Myrddraal as opposed to the other suspicious people, because of that "I hope the detective investigates me" thing.

[Silver Rusher]

Day breaks in the Gameroom. All is quiet.

“Chk. Chk. Chk. Chk.”

Xiahou had been hearing that sound ever since he got up. It was present during his morning shave, his shower, his breakfast, and his routine checks of whether the house was secure or not.

“Chk. Chk. Chk. Chk.”

But where was that cursed sound COMING FROM???!!?!

“Chk. Chk. Chk. Ch-CRACK!!”

Suddenly a much louder noise made its presence known. Xiahou now knew where the sound was coming from – his own back yard! He ran upstairs to his window to see what was going on.

Somebody, dressed in a fine Italian suit, was swinging a hatchet at the large oak tree out back. How odd. Xiahou opened the window and yelled out.

“Hey! Just who do you think you are, cutting down my tree?!”

“I’m with Vincenzo’s Tree Service,” the figure in the suit yelled back. “You call us up, we chop it down!”

“…then why does it say Vincenzo’s Guttering on the van outside?”

“Ah, well, we do that too. Our… business is always expanding! Are you interested in some guttering work as well?”

Xiahou was pretty angry at this point. “No, I’m not! And get away from my tree at once! I did not order you to come here and chop it down!”

“No,” said the mafioso, “but my boss did. TIMBER!”

With one final swing, the tree started to topple. Xiahou gasped as it came crashing down… straight down on his house. He was crushed to death. Meanwhile, the mafioso cursed himself as he walked away.

“Blood I don’t mind. But I’ll never be able to get all this sawdust out of my suit.”

Chief of Police Divine Wind assembled the villagers in the town centre. He was standing next to what looked like a newly built swimming pool, with a cover over it. This seemed unnecessary as many of the villagers had already seen what was underneath. Or so they thought.

Once everyone had arrived, DW began speaking.

"We have lost another great member of our community in Xiahou. A good friend to all of us, he was. Whoever committed the crime shall pay in blood." He turned to the pool and pulled off the cover, smiling. Inside the tank were sharks, and they had lasers on their heads. "I present our latest execution. Sharks with frickin' lasers!"

There was a round of applause among the amused villagers.

"Thank you, thank you. Who gets thrown in the pool with the sharks with frickin' lasers? Get voting."

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody
theRTWGuru
Dutch_guy
Xiahou

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro
Ignoramus
Evil_Maniac From Mars

PM:
Destroyer of Hope

Wrath of God:
Big King Sanctaphrax
Peasant Phill

Still alive:
Masy
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Crazed Rabbit
Cowhead418
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

[GeneralHankerchief]

:help:

I honestly have no idea where to go after this. Maybe it's just this game that's fatiguing me, but I can't start discussion anywhere.

3 and a half hours have passed since the kills were posted. Does anyone have any ideas about anything?

EDIT: Forgot to vote in case I can't later on:

Vote: Abstain

[Don Corleone]

Sorry General Hank, but for an advanced player, you've had one too many of these 'can't think of much to say' moments. I think your fight with Sasaki was cover, and I'm willing to put my neck on the block over it.

If you agree with me, join me:
Vote: General Hankerchief

If you disagree, vote me!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sorry General Hank, but for an advanced player, you've had one too many of these 'can't think of much to say' moments.

Such as?

To my knowledge, this is the first time I've been truly stumped during this game or any of 'em.

1st round I abstain because it's the first round.
Runoff I vote Drisos to save Divine Wind.
2nd round I back Sigurd up and (wrongly) vote Kommodus.
3rd round is the Sasaki thing.
4th round I took off. I was, however, paying attention to the thread, I just had no desire to get into another large argument. That may sound shocking to a Backroom vet like you, but there's a reason why I stay out of there.
5th round I suspect Masy, who defends himself fairly well enough, and am the first person to vote for EMFM.

Don, I'm pretty sure you're innocent, but I will vote for you if I have to save myself.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Voting Record Facts:

With the exception of Drisos (lynched in runoff) Everyone who voted for Divine Wind in Round 1 or the Runoff has been murdered.

With the exception of Drisos (lynched in runoff) Everyone who voted for Don Corleone in Round 1 or the Runoff has been murdered.

With the exception of Sasaki (lynched in round 3) all of those who voted to kill Drisos in the 1st round -- not the runoff -- are alive and well (Cowhead, Crazed Rabbit).

All 4 who voted to lynch Sasaki in round 3 are fine and dandy (Gen. Crazed Rabbit, Csar, Don Corleone, Gen. Hanky).

2 of the 3 who voted for Don Corleone twice are dead (good luck Husar!)

Neither Cowhead nor Crazed Rabbit, responsible for 2 of the 3 Drisos votes in round #1, lodged a vote in the runoff between Divine Wind and Drisos.

"Inactive" voters:

Masy: Abstain, Drisos, DNV, DNV, Ignoramus, DNV.


...If I make just one oddball assumption, that Sasaki was innocent (in this game) then the play of Cowhead and Crazed Rabbit becomes a bit more sinister....

Vote: Crazed Rabbit

...just business, nothing personal. I always liked you.

[Xiahou]

I knew the mafia feared me. :skull:

This is just my gut instincts here, but I don't think the mafia is only taking one kill a turn to fake us out- I think we got at least one of them. If they had been killing two all this time it'd be pretty all sewn up by now wouldnt it?

So many suspicious people left... and so little time remaining for the townsfolk. I dont know with any certainty who's mafia- but Seamus makes alot of good points about who to watch out for. Of course, we musnt overlook the frightening possibility that Seamus is mafia- what better way for the mafia do game Seamus' analases than if he was also one of them. I dont think we should start the bandwagon based on this, but the notion bears discussion.

[Kommodus]

Whispers from the dead: Ah, so the brave townsfolk are at a loss, indeed? Despair not, good people of the Gameroom, for though I appear but little I have not forgotten your plight! Nay, how could I forget they who have so wisely and selflessly relocated my body to the depths of this lake? The waters are cool and refreshing, and the creatures of the lagoon are steady and amicable company; though they do get peckish occasionally and are wanting for conversation.

Despair not, for my watery abode affords opportunity for little but thought, and where there is theory, practice is not far behind. Can the steady, relentless assault of logic break apart this conundrum, as the glaciers have worn away this lake bed in ages past? Time alone can tell; and for the dead, time is never wanting...

[Divine Wind]

Whispers from the dead: Ah, so the brave townsfolk are at a loss, indeed? Despair not, good people of the Gameroom, for though I appear but little I have not forgotten your plight! Nay, how could I forget they who have so wisely and selflessly relocated my body to the depths of this lake? The waters are cool and refreshing, and the creatures of the lagoon are steady and amicable company; though they do get peckish occasionally and are wanting for conversation.

Despair not, for my watery abode affords opportunity for little but thought, and where there is theory, practice is not far behind. Can the steady, relentless assault of logic break apart this conundrum, as the glaciers have worn away this lake bed in ages past? Time alone can tell; and for the dead, time is never wanting...

So in plain English, you dont have a bloody clue ~;)

Ive always suspected GHC so far in this game. Theres something slightly different about the way hes playing, and I dont like it.

Seamus Fermanagh on the outside, seems to so far have been the perfect villager. Contributing very well by displaying voting record facts, which in every case link nothing to himself, and getting through most rounds without an ounce of suspicion.

Tough one to call.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

[GeneralHankerchief]

Two votes? Well, I didn't want to do it this early but you've forced me to.

I am the Detective. And I'm not the only one.


Make sure you have read the prologue in the Godfather thread before reading this. Also, make sure you read this PM bit by bit, and that you have read the entire story before even glancing at what's underneath it.

GeneralHankerchief lived in a small apartment in the center of town. But in the Gameroom, the crime rate was low, which was why it came as a shock to him when an arrow from outside shattered his glass window, flew into the apartment and embedded itself in a wooden dresser.

At first, GH was too shocked to move, but after a while he collected himself and walked over to the arrow. Slightly reluctant and afraid to touch it, he bent over and pulled it out of the dresser, with about 3 vests. The damage was irreparable. "Darn it," GH thought, before noticing there was a note attatched to the arrow. It read:

Call this number:
555-62342

Nothing could have been more important than a note carried by an arrow flying through a person's window and damaging his dresser. He was too angry with the person responsible to think about what he was doing, and he was also curious on how a phone number had eight digits. So he picked up the phone and called.

"Ah, hello GeneralHankerchief. I am glad that you decided to call me."

GH was rather angry at this person, and so he screamed into the receiver. "Who are you? Why did you put an arrow through my window?"

"Soon, a window will not be important. Your town is in grave danger."

"Danger? The GAMEROOM? Nahhhhhhhhh." GH wasn't convinced, beginning to think that this whole thing was a prank.

"Shut up and listen." The voice was dead serious. "Do you know the van that's been driving around recently? The one with 'Vincenzo's Guttering' written on the side? We have reason to believe that this Vincenzo is a high-up figure in La Cosa Nostra, the mafia. We believe that he is trying to recruit villagers to kill off everyone in the town. However, we need an inside man. It will be your job to investigate one villager every day, and you must phone in your results to me."

GH was now somewhat convinced? "Wait, why do I have to phone in to you?"

"Because I'm the only one who can save the town. Don't worry, you're not the only one. I've also recruited Myrddraal for this job. You two should pool your information in order to save the town. Good luck."

With that, the mysterious voice hung up, leaving GeneralHankerchief determined. He would save the town.

Congratulations, GeneralHankerchief. You have been randomly selected for the role of Detective in The Godfather, Part 2!

-PM me now and every night during the game telling me the name of one person you wish to investigate.

-Your partner is Myrddraal.

-The twist is in this game, you and Myrddraal have a choice of how to investigate. You can choose to separately investigate people, which will bring you normal results, or you can investigate the same person together. If you choose to do this, I will tell you whether that person is the Godfather, who is ordinarily immune to Detective investigations. In addition, if you both investigate a Mafia Grunt, I will reveal that role to you too. However, I need PM confirmation from both of you should you decide to pursue this strategy. If one of you dies, than this power goes away.

-You are allowed to reveal yourself (and your partner) to everyone at any time during the game while you are still alive. You cannot reveal to individual people, however. And, as always, you cannot reveal if you are dead.

-You now have until 9:00 PM GMT on Tuesday 24th October to PM me your first investigation.

Good luck,
Silver Rusher

After some discussion Myrddraal and I decided to go the "one investigation per round" route in order to find the Godfather. However, our results have not been the ones we were hoping for.

In the following rounds, we investigated the following:



Round 1: Dutch_guy (innocent)
Round 2: Divine Wind (CoP) (innocent)
Round 3: Ignoramus (innocent)
Round 4: Sasaki Kojiro (just executed) (guilty)
Round 5: Sigurd Fafnesbane (innocent)
Round 6: Proletariat (innocent)

Out of all of these, only Sasaki came up as guilty.



GH and I want to investigate Sasaki this round. Is that allowed even if he's dead?

Yes, that is allowed.

Sasaki is guilty!

Before being executed, he killed UltraWar and Sir Moody. However, he is not the Godfather.

Now, judging by the people that Sasaki has gone after, combined with investigations, here is the status list of people with their status. "I" indicates confirmed innocent, "i" indicates probably innocent, and "D" indicates Detective.



Masy
Csar
GeneralHankerchief (D)
Proletariat (I)
Don Corleone (i)
Seamus Fernanagh
Crazed Rabbit (i)
Cowhead418
Sigurd Fafnesbane (I)
Husar
Divine Wind (I)
Myrddraal (D)

In order to save myself, I'm going to

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Husar

No offense bud. But I need more time for investigations.

[Proletariat]

Well, I'll be.

I'm willing to believe it, since the only person I know for sure to be innocent is myself, and that there reveal jives with that. Also, Sasaki has acted soo ludicrous this whole game, I'm definately buying what GH is selling.

Guess I'll Vote: Husar for now as well, since I'll be at work for awhile today and won't have too many chances to check in until evening.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well, well....

That's a horse of a different color.

If Sasaki is guilty, then Crazed Rabbits voting is all on the up-and-up.

Unvote: Crazed Rabbit
Vote: Abstain

Let's hear from the half-man.

We must evaluate this carefully, but if Hanky and Myrdraal's list/role passes the "smell test" then our list of lynchees narrows.

[Husar]

Hmm, let me look up one of my older posts...this here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1286279&postcount=498).

While this has some completely flawed logic in it, especially in those last four points, I remember suspecting Seamus Fermanagh for several things and since then he almost convinced me of his innocence, because he was the perfect citizen.
If we now have a look at his voting record facts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1290836&postcount=614), he votes for Crazed Rabbit who he thought might be detective and had probably found him to be innocent. In addition, he wishes me good luck while indicating Don, who we all think is innocent, might be Mafia.
Next up is the reasoning for his vote, he simply makes the assumption that Sasaki was innocent and then bases his vote for CR on this.
This is if GH is not lying of course.

There is of course the possibility that GH and Myrddraal are mafia and GH now tried a weird stunt to survive the last rounds.
After all, he votes for me on no basis than wanting to stay alive, which is not assured by lynching me, so I do not really understand the reasoning behind this.:dizzy2: He can still be killed by the mafia next night. except if I were the Godfather of course, but I cannot understand the logic because I'm not...whatever.
There is also a possibility of Prole and GH being Mafia because she just bandwagons on his vote, this way they might provide a reason to kill Myrd next round, we should see what he says about this.

The last are only assumptions which I do not (want to) believe but included to not leave anything out, so...

Vote: Seamus Fermanagh

edit: Seamus believes GH and changes his vote...this pushes the balance more towards my secondary suspicions, but I am going to keep my vote for now.

[GeneralHankerchief]

There is of course the possibility that GH and Myrddraal are mafia and GH now tried a weird stunt to survive the last rounds.
After all, he votes for me on no basis than wanting to stay alive, which is not assured by lynching me, so I do not really understand the reasoning behind this. :dizzy2: He can still be killed by the mafia next night. except if I were the Godfather of course, but I cannot understand the logic because I'm not...whatever.
There is also a possibility of Prole and GH being Mafia because she just bandwagons on his vote, this way they might provide a reason to kill Myrd next round, we should see what he says about this.

Remember, the mafia are down to the Godfather and one grunt (maybe zero, but I highly doubt this). This means that even if I die, Myrddraal can still get some work done. I am banking on revealing our final cooperative investigation result to you before I am killed in the night.

[Dutch_guy]

I very, very, very much doubt Husar is a mafia grunt. He might be the godfather, but he isn't one of the grunts.

This is, by the way, a nice twist to the story Silver. Isn't it a bit pro town though ? If everything GHC said is true, then it does seem so.

:balloon2:

[GeneralHankerchief]

I very, very, very much doubt Husar is a mafia grunt. He might be the godfather, but he isn't one of the grunts.

This is, by the way, a nice twist to the story Silver. Isn't it a bit pro town though ? If everything GHC said is true, then it does seem so.

:balloon2:

My belief is that this twist makes up for the pro-mafia one in Godfather 1. If you remember, the Mafia Mastermind got to select both the Godfather and the Detective, with disasterous results for the town.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Argh, I just realized that Divine Wind can't vote. So I revealed with one vote against me. :wall:

[Masy]

GeneralHankerchief, not sure about you...this does give explanation to your suspicions of me (You seemed sure I wasn't a detective, but rather a mafia faking. This explains your assuredness, and why you weren't fussed about (potentially) pointing me out to the mafia.) However, this could all be an elaborate set-up...

BUT! I would feel rather silly if you were indeed detective and we let you die, so
Vote: Husar

-edit-

Am I right in thinking that the Godfather can be investigated, and not come up as guilty? If so, then some of these folk on that investigated list could be far from innocent.

[Divine Wind]

Argh, I just realized that Divine Wind can't vote. So I revealed with one vote against me. :wall:

GAH!!! My fault GHC, I keep getting tangled up in the game, and then forgetting I cannot vote.


-On top of the Godfather and two mafiosi there will be Detective. He can investigate one person each night to find out if they are innocent or guilty. If he investigates the Godfather, however, it will show up as innocent.

Oh crap.

[GeneralHankerchief]

-edit-

Am I right in thinking that the Godfather can be investigated, and not come up as guilty? If so, then some of these folk on that investigated list could be far from innocent.

A part of our role was that we could choose how to investigate. If we conducted separate investigations, then if we found the Godfather he would come up as innocent.

But if we cooperatively investigated people, they would come up as guilty even if they were the Godfather. Trading quantity for quality of sorts. That was the route that Myrddraal and I took, but so far we have not been successful.

[Husar]

GeneralHankerchief, not sure about you...this does give explanation to your suspicions of me (You seemed sure I wasn't a detective, but rather a mafia faking. This explains your assuredness, and why you weren't fussed about (potentially) pointing me out to the mafia.) However, this could all be an elaborate set-up...

BUT! I would feel rather silly if you were indeed detective and we let you die, so
Vote: Husar

-edit-

Am I right in thinking that the Godfather can be investigated, and not come up as guilty? If so, then some of these folk on that investigated list could be far from innocent.
Ok, you give a good example of why the village will likely lose, you didn't even read the important parts of GHs post, you just join voting on me and I haven't even seen a single good reason from anyone for doing that. I tried to provide some reasons for voting, but noone cares to even think about it, it seems. It's all fine, just go ahead and lynch me, I prefer that over getting killed by the mafia, but in the end it won't help us townies.
If someone would at least have tried to dig up something suspicious from me or at least have made a single quote showing why he/she chose to vote me...apart from GH randomly choosing me, that is.

Is it just a weird trend to show many highly suspicious people and then vote for someone else?

[Sir Moody]

this is the second game where sas has had me killed :no:

why sas why?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Boo-yah, I knew it was Sasaki. And yeah, the reveal was a little...hasty GH. Ah well. We've got only 5 possible choices for mafia and don.

I'm going to vote:Seamus.

For the same reasons as Husar stated, and for his seemingly compelling, but obviously wrong, evaluation of me. Also, it could very well be that he set up the kills he outlined to frame me (and cowhead, who would seem more innocent if Seamus is guilty).

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Wow, that's awesome. I'd have liked to see the town win this game, but I do have a soft spot in my heart for a mafia group who can lead the town around in circles.

I will make some points though, I guess it's my duty:

It could have been faked. I myself believed it was real until I read the part about myself being guilty, but you can't deny that it is possible.


If you want to confess to being in the mafia or being a detective, you may use quotes, but not screenshots, from any PMs I have sent you.


GH's pm does not mention this. If it were genuine it would.

Doesn't it strike you as a little odd that I as a mafioso (according to their story) managed to go after both detectives?

Does their behavior in the game match up to detective behavior?

Why did GH wait so late in the day? Why reveal at all? He only had a couple votes. He was waiting until he was sure the detective wasn't going to claim.

There would have been no need for them both to investigate me after I was dead. The game would have been over if I was Godfather, so one of them would have been enough to see if I was a mafia grunt and the other could investigate another townie. Not the kind of thing you mess up if you are actually detective, however this is just the kind of thing you mess up if you are faking a story.

Lastly, it would be a lame twist. Compared to mafia mastermind, throwing in an extra detective with watchman like capabilities would hardly qualify as a twist, and if you read the pm you'll notice the twist is identified as the two detectives being able to get a guilty on the godfather. That isn't a twist.

:bow: to GH, Myrddraal, and Sigurd. You've played an excellent game. I'm pleased with myself for identifying you, but obviously I need to work on my powers of persuasion :laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Also, I suspect the twist has something to do with the words that have been bolded in some of the execution/kill scenes:


Prologue Vincenzo
Kill 1 Gameroom Quarry
Lynch 2 Gameroom Pond
Kill 3 Cessna Skyhawk
Kill 4 Get Yer 'orses Stable
Kill 5 Elephant and Cannon Pub

etc. I stopped keeping track because I couldn't figure out what they're supposed to mean. Latest was the African Honeybees. Myrddraal commented on these as being mafia distractions which is part of what makes me think they are significant.

Also, if you read back over the thread, those three have started almost all the bandwagons. Kommodus, Sasaki, Ignoramus, EMFM do you see a pattern? This should set warning sirens off in your head.

[Dutch_guy]

It could have been faked. I myself believed it was real until I read the part about myself being guilty, but you can't deny that it is possible.

Nice one, would be great if you had more evidence to prove it as a fake. It is indeed possible, and GeneralH is certainly a capable writer to do so, but it's up to the townies still left to make up their minds about it.


GH's pm does not mention this. If it were genuine it would.

Could be, but then again, this isn't your usual detective PM compared to the other games.


Doesn't it strike you as a little odd that I as a mafioso (according to their story) managed to go after both detectives?

Does their behavior in the game match up to detective behavior?

No, I find it to be more of a compliment to your mafioso skills that you were able to flush them out - for lack of a better term. But yes, it can be interpreted both ways.

Well, detective behavior isn't exactly generic. It's up to the Detectives themselves to figure that out I assume.


There would have been no need for them both to investigate me after I was dead. The game would have been over if I was Godfather, so one of them would have been enough to see if I was a mafia grunt and the other could investigate another townie. Not the kind of thing you mess up if you are actually detective, however this is just the kind of thing you mess up if you are faking a story.

This is a good point, and it does seem a stupid thing to do for such an experienced player like GeneralH. I'd like to hear him on that.


Lastly, it would be a lame twist. Compared to mafia mastermind, throwing in an extra detective with watchman like capabilities would hardly qualify as a twist, and if you read the pm you'll notice the twist is identified as the two detectives being able to get a guilty on the godfather. That isn't a twist.

This most certainly qualifies as a twist, because it's an event not discribed in the rules and is thus a special case, a twist if you will.


to GH, Myrddraal, and Sigurd. You've played an excellent game. I'm pleased with myself for identifying you, but obviously I need to work on my powers of persuasion

You need to work on getting your townie reputation back Sasaki, the mastermind in GF1 is still fresh in most players' mind. And this rather potent defence does remind me of a similar thing Lemur tried to pull off when Tiberius caught him - he failed.

Anyway, your post has raised some thought and I'd like to see the three named by you respond to the allegations.

:balloon2:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I don't think it qualifies as a twist. A twist in movies for example, is when you think someone was a good guy the whole movie until the end where you discover they are the opposite of what you thought, and you say "Whoah!" in your best Keanu Reeves voice.

There's no "whoah" here. Nothing significant has changed. An extra detective? SHOCKING

This changes everything! Now that there are two detectives...well wait they only investigated 2 people per turn...so it's just like one detective...except they can identify the Godfather. Woo.

[Husar]

There would have been no need for them both to investigate me after I was dead. The game would have been over if I was Godfather, so one of them would have been enough to see if I was a mafia grunt and the other could investigate another townie.
This is indeed true and there is another thing that catched my attention:


-The twist is in this game, you and Myrddraal have a choice of how to investigate. You can choose to separately investigate people, which will bring you normal results, or you can investigate the same person together. If you choose to do this, I will tell you whether that person is the Godfather, who is ordinarily immune to Detective investigations. In addition, if you both investigate a Mafia Grunt, I will reveal that role to you too. However, I need PM confirmation from both of you should you decide to pursue this strategy. If one of you dies, than this power goes away.







GH and I want to investigate Sasaki this round. Is that allowed even if he's dead?


Yes, that is allowed.

Sasaki is guilty!

Before being executed, he killed UltraWar and Sir Moody. However, he is not the Godfather.

Now here it looks like Myrddraal was the only one who sent a PM, I might be way off in that GH left out his PM to Silver but it all makes me rather suspicious since after all he seems to vote for me completely random, as if there was nothing else to go by.
I would like to hear what Myrddraal has to say about this.
And how long until the voting will close?

[GeneralHankerchief]

There would have been no need for them both to investigate me after I was dead. The game would have been over if I was Godfather, so one of them would have been enough to see if I was a mafia grunt and the other could investigate another townie. Not the kind of thing you mess up if you are actually detective, however this is just the kind of thing you mess up if you are faking a story.

Yeah, now that I look back on it that was probably a mistake. But at that point Myrddraal and I were used to just doing cooperative investigations.

As far as quoting Myrddraal's original "Did Sasaki do it?" PM, I suspect Silver did it out of convenience. My guess is that Myrddraal sent the later PM and Silver just replied to both of us.

[Husar]

Myrddraal is in the chat, not replying. I wish he would at least say anything here or there. If he doesn't I am even more inclined to believe Sasaki.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Wait, isn't Silver from Britain?


Call this number:
555-62342

I thought using "555" as a prefix for fictional numbers was only a North American thing. Any British orgahs care to confirm?

Also, why are their 5 digits on the end of it? Careless typo, GH?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_telephone_numbering_plan

This makes it sound like the british have quite a different numbering system for phone numbers.

I could be mistaken of course. I don't even know if Silver is British. But GH is American, and this could be a fatal slip up.

[Husar]

Ok, I don't really get this number thing, but I also somehow doubt that Sasaki would pull this out of nowhere. As it looks right now, i think I'm dead anyway, leading with 3 votes. But that noone of those three gave any good reason whatsoever why they would want me dead makes me change my vote now.

Unvote: Seamus Fermanagh
Vote: General Hankerchief

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well, now.

We are at a cusp point.

General Hankerchief is well aware that his reveal is a "make or break" point. He will either be believed or dis-believed and lynched.

If you believe him, you must also believe that BOTH he and Myrdraal were willing to investigate Sasaki after his death -- knowing full well that even if mafia (which Hanky at least believed in enough at that point to vote to lynch Sasaki) they would be using one of their precious "double investigates" to investigate someone who could not be the godfather [why not one to confirm Sasaki and the other to narrow the field?] and not to narrow the field and then in the very next round to knowingly Abstain/not vote during the round in which an "innocent" Ignoramus was lynched, without even an effort to nudge one of their still-under-suspicions (like me) forward, and then to do the reveal with only two votes against, and to have the reveal involve Myrdraal who hasn't posted at all in corroboration after nearly 7 hours.

Hanky's post did make me rethink about Rabbit (btw Husar, I don't recall ever thinking of him as the detective, though several folks suggested it early on, which he denied), but I am questioning the veracity of this whole reveal. Unlike the rest of you, I also know myself to be innocent, and therefor have doubts about anything that gives ammo for my lynching.

Absent Myrdraal's confirmation and discussion, I will Vote: General Hankerchief

I'm beginning to think we haven't hit any mafiosi so far. This lynching will be followed by one murder taking us from 11 voters to 9. If that lynching fails to nail a mafia, then the game is over.

This truly is the cusp point.

[Don Corleone]

Unvote: General Hankerchief
Vote: No-lynch.
Until we figure out what the heck is going on, we shouldn't be lynching anybody.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It was tied 3-3 between Husar and GH, Don. Divine Wind's vote didn't count.

With your unvote it's 3-2 Husar will be lynched.

[Don Corleone]

Unvote: No-lynch.
Vote: General Hank.

Let's keep the tie until Mydraal can confirm or deny.

Thank you Sasaki.

[Husar]

Let's keep the tie until Mydraal can confirm or deny.
You think he would deny if they are both mafia?:inquisitive:

[Don Corleone]

They're not both mafia. Sasaki was one of them, of this I'm 98% certain, which frankly, has me looking a little oddly at you, that he chimed in to pull your bacon out of the fire. That being said, this is a bombshell, and one day for a vote-runoff between the 2 of you is just the thing...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Certainly, Myrdraal's confirmation would not stand as absolute proof of Hanky's status....either way. But it WOULD give us another point of reference to evaluate to determine the which we felt to be more accurate.

Tying the vote for a runoff and longer eval may be of use.

[Proletariat]

Yeah, now that I look back on it that was probably a mistake. But at that point Myrddraal and I were used to just doing cooperative investigations.



Riiight.

:inquisitive:

Unvote: Husar
Vote: GH

I really doubt they would've done something that silly.

[Silver Rusher]

*****Voting Closed*****

[Husar]

They're not both mafia. Sasaki was one of them, of this I'm 98% certain, which frankly, has me looking a little oddly at you, that he chimed in to pull your bacon out of the fire. That being said, this is a bombshell, and one day for a vote-runoff between the 2 of you is just the thing...
Oh well, I defended Sasaki as well and if he is a villager, he would want us to win, since i am innocent it would only be logical for him to jump in since we do not have many rounds left to find the mafiosi.
I won't stay out of here as well, even after getting lynched or killed or whatever. There may be an exception when I get lynched and noone of those who voted for me gives any good reason(how often did I mention that now?), then I would be kinda upset, yeah...:furious3:

[Proletariat]

Silver, can we please extend voting?

I think that on a saturday, this late in the game, it would be alot better for the game over all if we could give a few of the other active players a chance to get a vote in.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Wait a minute, this isn't right. Four people haven't even posted. Most people voted who for me did so on the basis of extending discussion. Can we at least have an extended deadline?

[Husar]

I agree with Prole and GH, many people like Sigurd are away over the weekend or invest their time elsewhere and thus cannot vote here, not even join in on the discussion, so maybe we should open the weekend vote until monday evening or so?

[Silver Rusher]

Evening in the Gameroom.

"Liar!"

"Murderer!"

"Coward!"

"Wobblebottom!"

These were among the curses being yelled at GeneralHankerchief as he stood on the diving board, blindfolded, waiting for the sharks with frickin' lasers to consume him. Not everyone thought GH was a mafioso, but that was certainly the general consensus. He was being closely guarded by Chief of Police Divine Wind.

DW began speaking to the villagers. "People of the Gameroom. GeneralHankerchief has told you today that he is a special detective, commissioned to investigated the murderous plague that has fallen upon our quite town. But these are lies! He is trying nothing other than to deceive you, and thanks to the will of the people and a few of the ghosts, we have seen through it. He is a liar, a murderer...."

Under the cover of the blindfold, GH shifted his eyes. This was the perfect opportunity for escape. During the distraction of DW's speech, he turned and quickly broke into a sprint. But DW was anticipating this. Before GH could get anywhere, DW sent his elbow flying straight into his cold head, knocking him back into the pool. He was cut to pieces by the lasers and the teeth of the sharks, simultaneously.

The celebrations of the villagers were cut short by a familiar booming voice from the skies...

"PEOPLE OF THE GAMEROOM!" Silver Rusher yelled down to the shocked townspeople, "YOU HAVE BEEN VOTING WELL. I AM GLAD TO SAY THAT I HAVE HAD TO KILL ONLY TWO OF YOU THIS ENTIRE TIME. NOW THAT SO FEW OF YOU ARE STILL ALIVE, NOBODY ELSE WILL DIE BY MY HANDS."

Tally:
GeneralHankerchief - 4 votes (Proletariat, Don Corleone, Seamus Fermanagh, Husar) :skull:
Husar - 2 votes (Masy, GeneralHankerchief)
Seamus Fermanagh - 1 vote (Crazed Rabbit)

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody
theRTWGuru
Dutch_guy
Xiahou

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro
Ignoramus
Evil_Maniac From Mars
GeneralHankerchief

PM:
Destroyer of Hope

Wrath of God:
Big King Sanctaphrax
Peasant Phill

Still alive:
Masy
Csar
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Crazed Rabbit
Cowhead418
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

10 players will remain after the next set of murders, so there shall be no more Wrath of God. PM's please.

[Silver Rusher]

I agree with Prole and GH, many people like Sigurd are away over the weekend or invest their time elsewhere and thus cannot vote here, not even join in on the discussion, so maybe we should open the weekend vote until monday evening or so?
Sorry, I'm not going to change the 24 hour voting time just because something has happened. Nobody who didn't vote will be killed, don't worry.

[Husar]

Sorry, I'm not going to change the 24 hour voting time just because something has happened. Nobody who didn't vote will be killed, don't worry.
I was more worried about us killing the detective...

[Silver Rusher]

I was more worried about us killing the detective...
And is it my fault that 4 people voted for GH?

[Husar]

And is it my fault that 4 people voted for GH?
No, but if we had more discussion and more participation, we might have decided otherwise. And the lack of participation is not due to people refusing to participate than rather them being occupied over the weekend.

[Silver Rusher]

No, but if we had more discussion and more participation, we might have decided otherwise. And the lack of participation is not due to people refusing to participate than rather them being occupied over the weekend.
I never even implied that it was because people refuse to participate, and I would even disagree with that point, but the 24 hour voting period can only change by within about an hour. It isn't more flexible than that unless I absolutely can't possibly post the execution until later.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Don't worry Husar, we lynched the right person.

@GH: why did you reveal Myrddraal as the other detective? It would put him in unnecessary danger from being killed by the mafia. I'm sorry, but no real detective would do that.

[Csargo]

Crap I missed the Deadline. Sorry guys I don't have time right now I've got alot of crap going on hopefully I'll be on in time for the next vote.

[Cowhead418]

Damn... I was gone all day today and yesterday, so I missed this round (I also missed voting in the Black Hand).:no: However, I think we made a mistake. If we had not lynched GHC, the next set of kills would have told us much. If GH was killed, then his credibility would have been confirmed. And if he wasn't, then maybe he could have got in one more investigation before he is killed (we'd probably have him lynched at that point). Right now we need Myrd to chip in with a few words.

PS: Did anyone notice this tidbit?


10 players will remain after the next set of murders, so there shall be no more Wrath of God. PM's please. There are only 11 players alive at this point, so the narrator might have just confirmed the death of one mafioso! This gives GH more credibility, though nothing is ever certain.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

There are only 11 players alive at this point, so the narrator might have just confirmed the death of one mafioso! This gives GH more credibility, though nothing is ever certain.

Yeah...cause GH being a mafioso would in no way lead to there being one kill tonight :juggle2:


Look at the pm guys:


They both investigate me round four when only one of them needed to, if they were detectives they would have thought of that
The phone number is American (like GH) while Silver is British
If GH was detective he wouldn't have outed Myrddraal and put him at risk.
Neither of them made an effort to prevent Ignoramus from being lynched, even though according to GH they had found him innocent
The pm doesn't mention that they aren't allowed to post screenshots to prove their role, which it would if it were genuine
"An extra detective" doesn't qualify as a twist. Also, if this is a twist, what is the meaning of the bolded words in some of Silver's descriptions?
GH hadn't gotten enough votes for him to really need to claim

[Husar]

2 of the 3 who voted for Don Corleone twice are dead (good luck Husar!)
:hide:

I really wonder who wants to frame Don there...

[Don Corleone]

Hey, go ahead and lynch me. Other than nailing Sasaki, there's not much else I have to offer. I'm clueless on the GH/Mydraal detective angle. If we need a ritual killing on Monday night, I'm meeting friends for Monday Night Football, make it me.

But, Sigurd hasn't said boo in what, a week now? What's up with that?

[GeneralHankerchief]

:wall:

[Kommodus]

@GH: why did you reveal Myrddraal as the other detective? It would put him in unnecessary danger from being killed by the mafia. I'm sorry, but no real detective would do that.

The rules in the PM indicated that the detectives had to be revealed together publicly. Anyway that's how I read them.

Having caught up on the recent activity I have this to say:

My word but you are full of it, Sasaki! I can't believe you got the town to lynch one of their detectives - again! You're simply getting too good at this. Well played, my friend, well played.

Well, that means the detectives can no longer successfully investigate the Godfather. That'll make the end of the game interesting, since essentially the town needs to get lucky in order to win. I wouldn't be surprised to see Myrddraal survive for quite a while now, since his threat is effectively ended. The town gains little, if anything, from lynching the other mafia goon.

I can't say I have much sympathy for the townspeople in this game, though. Again and again they've made the wrong decision when the information needed to make the correct one (or at least a better one) was available to them. If they believe your BS arguments, they deserve their fate. There are going to be a lot of people kicking themselves when this is all over.

Well, the mafia are due for another victory anyway. I'll enjoy reading the ending. :2thumbsup:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

https://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8069/emotwordsbl2.gif

That's not what the pm said though:


You are allowed to reveal yourself (and your partner) to everyone at any time during the game while you are still alive.

He is allowed to reveal himself, and he is allowed to reveal his partner. It doesn't say they both have to be revealed at the same time.

Also: the town gains much from lynching another mafia goon. If there are two mafia, there being 6 left it will be lynch or lose. If there is only one goon left at that point they have another shot with 4 left. 1/6 +1/4 > 1/3*1/4

Of course, since the detective is already dead there's no point in that discussion.


I disagree, the town is in a very good position. The mafia goofed with their pm, as neither they nor you have been able to dispute. Does reinterpreting the partner reveal rules change your mind about me?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ugh.

Sasaki... just... congrats. Once again you have managed to manipulate the town and have them do your bidding, even in death. I admire your persistance at this game; in Cosa Nuova when you were mafia you just bowed out after dying. Just the town's luck that this game you decide to play all the way through. :wall:

A quick response to all of his points, not that it matters since he succeeded in getting rid of me.



They both investigate me round four when only one of them needed to, if they were detectives they would have thought of that
The phone number is American (like GH) while Silver is British
If GH was detective he wouldn't have outed Myrddraal and put him at risk.
Neither of them made an effort to prevent Ignoramus from being lynched, even though according to GH they had found him innocent
The pm doesn't mention that they aren't allowed to post screenshots to prove their role, which it would if it were genuine
"An extra detective" doesn't qualify as a twist. Also, if this is a twist, what is the meaning of the bolded words in some of Silver's descriptions?
GH hadn't gotten enough votes for him to really need to claim


#1: This was an error on our part. As previously said, we were just used to investigating the same person.

#2: No idea about this. I think the eight-digit thing corresponds to the last five numbers representing the word "MAFIA." So I get lynched based on a phone number that Silver did for a little effect. :wall:

#3: Not outing Myrddraal would have required a lot of time to change the PM around, time which I did not have. At that point I was convinced that the bandwagon would roll against me, and you would happily push it along. Getting a quick reveal in was Priority #1.

#4: That is a lie. We never investigated Ignoramus, and Sigurd was only found innocent after Ig was lynched.

#5: It is mentioned in the first post of the thread.

#6: Oh wow, so you're suddenly the universal definer of what a twist is? I believe that it is up to Silver on what falls into the realm of a twist in his game.

#7: See #3. At the time I thought I had two out of the three votes cast.

~~~~~~~~

This game has taxed me to the limit, but I will do my best to limit the damage and still try to pull off a Town victory. But I hope that a game this nasty and cutthroat is never played again. As said before, there's a reason why I don't go in the Backroom. Mafia needs to be fun first. Not the exhausting psychological marathon that it has become.

Anyway, a premature congrats to Sasaki and his two mafia buddies on their victory. Well played gentlemen, well played.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

#1: This was an error on our part. As previously said, we were just used to investigating the same person.

I believe you're better at being detective than that.


#2: No idea about this. I think the eight-digit thing corresponds to the last five numbers representing the word "MAFIA." So I get lynched based on a phone number that Silver did for a little effect. :wall:

The last 5 numbers don't represent the word mafia though. The 2nd number is '2' which could only be D E or F. Not A. The 555 thing is only in America. I don't know what British telephone numbers look like but the wikipedia article made it sound like they all start with 0 or something but I don't see how that works. Regardless, Silver wouldn't have used an American number, even by accident. That means the PM has to be faked, simple as that.


#3: Not outing Myrddraal would have required a lot of time to change the PM around, time which I did not have. At that point I was convinced that the bandwagon would roll against me, and you would happily push it along. Getting a quick reveal in was Priority #1.

All you had to do was asterisk out his name. 5 seconds tops. You would have done this.


#4: That is a lie. We never investigated Ignoramus, and Sigurd was only found innocent after Ig was lynched.

Excuse me? You said you did:


Round 1: Dutch_guy (innocent)
Round 2: Divine Wind (CoP) (innocent)
Round 3: Ignoramus (innocent)
Round 4: Sasaki Kojiro (just executed) (guilty)
Round 5: Sigurd Fafnesbane (innocent)
Round 6: Proletariat (innocent)

Now you are contradicting yourself? Or did you forget who you claimed you investigated?


#5: It is mentioned in the first post of the thread.

Yes, but Silver always includes all the rules in his PM's, even specific rules that aren't mentioned on the front page.


#6: Oh wow, so you're suddenly the universal definer of what a twist is? I believe that it is up to Silver on what falls into the realm of a twist in his game.

Yeah, fine. I can't prove anything here, it just doesn't seem very twisty to me.


#7: See #3. At the time I thought I had two out of the three votes cast.

Then you could have voted and tied it up.




This game has taxed me to the limit, but I will do my best to limit the damage and still try to pull off a Town victory. But I hope that a game this nasty and cutthroat is never played again. As said before, there's a reason why I don't go in the Backroom. Mafia needs to be fun first. Not the exhausting psychological marathon that it has become.

Anyway, a premature congrats to Sasaki and his two mafia buddies on their victory. Well played gentlemen, well played.

Being a mafioso can be pretty taxing, yeah? ~;) but nastiness and throat cutting has no place, I agree.




More people need to give their opinion on this. I find it really odd that Myrddraal hasn't posted since he's been on today.

[Crazed Rabbit]

What a bunch of complete morons we have in our town. You all seem to jump whenever Sasaki says so.


GeneralHankerchief - 4 votes (Proletariat, Don Corleone, Seamus Fermanagh, Husar)

Guess what, perhaps next time you should wait a bit before jumping on a revealing detective and once again killing him on Sasaki's word? Huh? Just maybe? Hmm? Maybe see how they fare one night through?

Geez-lou-frickin'-weez.

Therefore, I vote: Seamus. My vote will stand unless he gets offed this next round.

CR

[Myrddraal]

Well *!

I can't believe this. Firstly, I can't belive GH revealed, secondly, I can't believe you lynched him! WTF are you guys on.

For a start, even if you thought that GH and I were mafia it would be 100 time more wise to keep us alive a little longer. After all, if we are both mafia, you can work out the exact number of rounds till the critical point (where if we were are mafia you have to lynch us to save the town) and in the meantime we had a hope of finding the Godfather.

Seamus, who's analysis of games has a reputation, should definitely have noticed that...

I just can't believe how easy that was for Sasaki. He just has to say a word and everyone leaps on the bandwagon.

I think we just missed the critical point townsfolk. I might be able to investigate one more person this round. There aren't that many un-investigated people to investigate left, so I've got a 1/6 chance of getting 1 mafia member, or 1/4 if you count suspicion.

Well I'm stunned. I just hope this town undergoes a revolution before long.

PS, I don't think there is one (the first post doesn't mention one), but if there is a doctor could he please get in touch, anonymously if you like.

[Silver Rusher]

There are only 11 players alive at this point, so the narrator might have just confirmed the death of one mafioso! This gives GH more credibility, though nothing is ever certain.
Actually, I was merely saying this based on the current trend. Don't read too much into this sort of thing.

[Husar]

What I also find interesting is that I should not believe sasaki because he is supposed to be manipulating when there clearly are points that speak for him.

Just take the following example:

Neither of them made an effort to prevent Ignoramus from being lynched, even though according to GH they had found him innocent

#4: That is a lie. We never investigated Ignoramus, and Sigurd was only found innocent after Ig was lynched.

Round 1: Dutch_guy (innocent)
Round 2: Divine Wind (CoP) (innocent)
Round 3: Ignoramus (innocent)
Round 4: Sasaki Kojiro (just executed) (guilty)
Round 5: Sigurd Fafnesbane (innocent)
Round 6: Proletariat (innocent)
To look it up, the original post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1291075&postcount=618)
:inquisitive:

On the other hand we have:

Don't worry Husar, we lynched the right person.
Sounds like my big brother and mentor, while I would not really mind that elsewhere, this is a mafia game...:inquisitive:

And Don, I didn't want to lynch you, I was saying that someone else(mafia) might want to get you lynched and it's somehow all in Seamus' statistic...
And I still wonder why people start voting again, before the klills have been posted, CR.~;)

Now over to...Myrddraal.

Ok, he plays along with GH, cannot believe our stupidity and it is all Sasaki's fault because....well, because of his reputation, which in itself seems to be the only real point anyone here can bring up against Sasaki. Now I have to follow the path of the Don and say this is my first(and hopefully worst) mafia game ever and I do not know much about Sasaki's reputation, all I see is that he often has some good points, makes some suspicious comments here and there(but who doesn't?) and I would like someone to blame him without mentioning his history all the time.

I'm inclined to believe both, but that won't fit with GHs revelations claiming Sasaki was guilty. Kommodus mentions how stupid we are, but cannot come up with a better solution, as a former townie he might just want to come up with something useful instead of just blaming us?:smash:

That was my morning(2pm) wakeup post for today.:bow:

[Myrddraal]

I'm sorry I just can't get over this. GH reveals, and you lynch him immediately. Seeing as there isn't a doctor (I don't think) we were doomed anyway! At least it would have taken the mafia two turns to kill us off, and we could still have made another investigation. As we stand now, I'm doomed, I won't be able to make another investigation. STUPID STUPID STUPID!

If we were both mafia, then it would have been obvious because we wouldn't have died!

Who else would want GH lynched straight away apart from the mafia!

[Crazed Rabbit]

And I still wonder why people start voting again, before the klills have been posted, CR.

I know who the mafia is. Sasaki, a while ago, said that Seamus was the only person he did not have suspicions of, and thought was innocent. Maybe Don is the godfather.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Myrddraal, I'd like you to at least attempt to defend the pm which I have shown to be faked.

Also, why did GH not know who you two had investigated? Any explanation for that?

[Csargo]

Wow this is really crazy isn't it.:dizzy2:

[Silver Rusher]

Day breaks in the Gameroom. All is quiet.

Cowhead418 had a job as a marketing consultant in Culp Co., a large firm supplying doughnuts in the centre of the Gameroom. One night, he was held up at work for a long time, and when he finally got out he was relieved.

"Phew..." CH sighed to himself, "Another minute in there and I would have killed myself."

But then a strange feeling entered his gut. He saw 4 shadowy figures dressed immaculately in suits standing next to a van marked "Vincenzo's Guttering", shaking hands.

Their heads turned to him. He instinctively began walking towards the car park.

Later, on the road leading towards his home, he looked in his wing mirror. Here he noticed a van following him. It was marked "Vincenzo's Guttering".

He stepped on the accelerator. The bridge was coming up, and there was no way off the road.

CH began to cross the bridge, but his acceleration was no use. The van drove up to the side of his car and rammed it straight off the bridge into the cold river below. There was no fancy escape.

Chief of Police Divine Wind addressed the crowd. There were shockingly few left; he couldn't help feeling somewhat disturbed by the fact that the murders still hadn't stopped.

"Citizens, this is a desperate time. We must find and execute the source of the problem, before it is too late." It was getting cold this time of year, and the words came out of his mouth as steam. "Whoever you choose to execute now will be strangled to death. We can't get this wrong! Start voting."

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody
theRTWGuru
Dutch_guy
Xiahou
Cowhead418

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro
Ignoramus
Evil_Maniac From Mars
GeneralHankerchief

PM:
Destroyer of Hope

Wrath of God:
Big King Sanctaphrax
Peasant Phill

Still alive:
Masy
Csar
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Crazed Rabbit
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

10 players remain.

[Don Corleone]

I know who the mafia is. Sasaki, a while ago, said that Seamus was the only person he did not have suspicions of, and thought was innocent. Maybe Don is the godfather.

CR

If I was the godfather, whomever I picked for mafia wouldn't let me say boo. Think about it, they'd have killed me irl by now, at least after that first week when I was 'finding my sea-legs', so to speak.

And I didn't vote General Hank to actually lynch him. I did that because he he decided to reveal 15 minutes before the end of voting and I was trying to keep a tie until we get it all sorted. If General Hank was going to reveal such a bombshell, wouldn't it have made sense to have Mydraal around, at the very least? For all I know, the whole damn thing was staged.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

He saw 4 shadowy figures dressed immaculately in suits standing next to a van marked "Vincenzo's Guttering", shaking hands.


Ack! Saywhatnow? Does this mean there are 4 mafia left?

[Don Corleone]

We started with 2 mafia and a godfather. Somewhere along the way, Silver changed the rules and we got 3 mafia and a godfather. Now we have 4? I'm getting really sick and tired of all this rule changing, and I'm not too pleased with these 'bombshell revelations' 10 minutes before the end of voting, not giving us any chance to work it out. First Sigurd, now General Hank....

Vote: Don Corleone (I'm tired of this).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I guess this has something to do with the twist. Why would they be shaking hands? There isn't a mastermind character right?

Can you confirm/deny any of this Silver? Or if you can't, can you confirm that you can't?

[Silver Rusher]

I guess this has something to do with the twist. Why would they be shaking hands? There isn't a mastermind character right?

Can you confirm/deny any of this Silver? Or if you can't, can you confirm that you can't?
I confirm that I can't ~;)

[Csargo]

We started with 2 mafia and a godfather. Somewhere along the way, Silver changed the rules and we got 3 mafia and a godfather. Now we have 4? I'm getting really sick and tired of all this rule changing, and I'm not too pleased with these 'bombshell revelations' 10 minutes before the end of voting, not giving us any chance to work it out. First Sigurd, now General Hank....

Vote: Don Corleone (I'm tired of this).

DC are you quiting? Do you want yourself lynched? That's not going to help us:shame:

[Don Corleone]

No, not quitting.

Waah, waah, waah and my my little tantrum is over. But please folks, if you have anything else in the future to reveal, let's not do it 10 minutes before we vote. I tried my damndest to keep it tied just until we could sort it all out, but I don't blame Prole. That was crazy timing, GH. If you are innocent, you almost deserved to have been lynched, just for dropping a bomb like that with no time to sort it out.... :dizzy2:

Unvote: Don Corleone
Vote: No-lynch.

I disagree with Sasaki on this point. In fact, I think he's playing us yet again. With only one scheduled kill per turn, he knows that lynching makes the mafia's odds go way up.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Don, if there are 4 mafia left, then no-lynching this turn and next turn means the mafia win. Your plan is very bad for the town.

What we need to be doing is figuring out what that message meant about the 4 shadowy figures and speculating as to what the twist could be. Simplest explanation so far is that Silver put 5 mafiosos in the game (GH and 4 others). That seems rather unbalanced though, since with 3 mafia+mastermind the mafia swept the town.

[Sir Moody]

you know don has acted suicidal form the start and has survived by being so suicidal no-one believes hes guilty - its the classic lemur defence and it may not be a good idea to keep letting him survive

[Husar]

Don, if there are 4 mafia left, then no-lynching this turn and next turn means the mafia win. Your plan is very bad for the town.

What we need to be doing is figuring out what that message meant about the 4 shadowy figures and speculating as to what the twist could be. Simplest explanation so far is that Silver put 5 mafiosos in the game (GH and 4 others). That seems rather unbalanced though, since with 3 mafia+mastermind the mafia swept the town.
Please, Sasaki, this sounds like you really are Mafia. If there really were so many mafiosi in the game I would simply refuse to lose, I think this was either written by the mafia or one of those little things silver said we should ignore. Now I really believe you are playing with us...:thumbsdown:
If I am wrong here and silver really put 4 or 5 mafia in, well, as I said, I refuse to lose...:thumbsdown:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Please, Sasaki, this sounds like you really are Mafia. If there really were so many mafiosi in the game I would simply refuse to lose, I think this was either written by the mafia or one of those little things silver said we should ignore. Now I really believe you are playing with us...:thumbsdown:
If I am wrong here and silver really put 4 or 5 mafia in, well, as I said, I refuse to lose...:thumbsdown:


Well the mafia don't write the kills so it was put in there by Silver. If it was something we can ignore he would have said so. Now as I said, I find this explanation unlikely but it's the simplest and only one we have right now. OTOH, their can't have been 5 mafia or they would have won last round by killing 2 instead of one. This doesn't have much to do with who we lynch this round, but if it turns out to be significant it shouldn't be ignored.

[Cowhead418]

Myrd wasn't killed... Is this a trick by the mafia trying to make us believe that he is guilty or is Myrd really in the mafia?

[Sigurd]

I just read through the posts that I have missed since before the weekend.
I got to hand it to you guys. This game has been quite entertaining, fascinating even.

We are at a point of no return. We need to bet on a horse here. I am inclined to bet on the GH/Myrddraal horse. Even though GH’s confession has its apparent flaws I am willing to believe it (62342 do spell MAFIA btw. I am thinking of the double-Dutch on Sasaki).
If it hadn’t been for the constant posting of a certain LYNCHED player who has a HIGH probability of being MAFIA, I would have had problems swallowing the camel presented by GH.
And why… townies did you lynch GH when the town would be better served if you had lynched me instead? I am also listed Sasaki’s list of highly suspicious players. A grave mistake has been done, orchestrated by the one I previously advised you from listening to. All logic says that he is probably mafia.
Do you see Kommodus or any of the other lynched players actively post their theories?
No, because we shouldn’t take advice from they and they realise this.

If we bet on the horse that GH has put forth there are 4 players on GH’s list left.
Csar
Masy
Seamus
Husar

Personally I believe there are only two Mafiosi left. Not 4 as Sasaki try to make us believe. He is planting a seed of doubt as to whom they might be. Are there any obvious clues we are not seeing here? Who amongst these 4 would have chosen Sasaki as Henchman?
I am inclined to believe that Csar is our man…

Vote:Csar

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ack! Saywhatnow? Does this mean there are 4 mafia left?

omg no thatz nto a proper twist!!!1

:laugh4:

[Masy]

nd why… townies did you lynch GH when the town would be better served if you had lynched me instead?


If we bet on the horse that GH has put forth there are 4 players on GH’s list left.
Csar
Masy
Seamus
Husar

I didn't vote GH, and am horrified by the poeple that did. He was detective wasn't he? Surely no-one would have that much free time on their hands to make such an elaborate fake.

Also, I'm not a mafia, so you can take me off that list :beam:

-edit-

Csar:

Sorry guys I haven't been very active in this I have some real life issues that have to be settled out before I can really get into this. I have read the thread over not very good I might add.

And next round he 'misses' the deadline.

What is this 'real life' of which you speak? lol fair enough, we all have stuff to do, but your abstaining and missing deadlines too much for me, so

Vote: Csar

[Sasaki Kojiro]

We are at a point of no return. We need to bet on a horse here. I am inclined to bet on the GH/Myrddraal horse. Even though GH’s confession has its apparent flaws I am willing to believe it (62342 do spell MAFIA btw. I am thinking of the double-Dutch on Sasaki).

Ok I looked it up and the system doesn't work the way I thought it did. The fact that GH noticed that makes me think he wrote it that way on purpose though. I like how you also fail to mention that it is an American number, and don't address any of the other obvious flaws in the pm.


If it hadn’t been for the constant posting of a certain LYNCHED player who has a HIGH probability of being MAFIA, I would have had problems swallowing the camel presented by GH.

Do you see Kommodus or any of the other lynched players actively post their theories?
No, because we shouldn’t take advice from they and they realise this.

NONE of you ever give reasons why you think I'm guilty beyond that I'm accusing you and I've been guilty in the past. The best you can seem to come up with is that none of the other lynched players are posting much, which doesn't work because they are posting some, and I always post a lot.


And why… townies did you lynch GH when the town would be better served if you had lynched me instead? I am also listed Sasaki’s list of highly suspicious players. A grave mistake has been done, orchestrated by the one I previously advised you from listening to. All logic says that he is probably mafia.

What logic. Specify.




If we bet on the horse that GH has put forth there are 4 players on GH’s list left.
Csar
Masy
Seamus
Husar

Personally I believe there are only two Mafiosi left. Not 4 as Sasaki try to make us believe. He is planting a seed of doubt as to whom they might be. Are there any obvious clues we are not seeing here? Who amongst these 4 would have chosen Sasaki as Henchman?
I am inclined to believe that Csar is our man…

Vote:Csar

I don't believe there are 4 mafia left, I said so in my last post. I said I don't have any explanation for that sentence. I hope Silver would have told me if it didn't mean anything.

You also just voted Csar for no reason. Nice. He would have chosen me after I got investigated first round last game? You have to actually give a reason why he would have chosen me you know.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

omg no thatz nto a proper twist!!!1

:laugh4:

I only speak english, sorry.

Why did you say you didn't investigate Ignoramus?

[Sigurd]

*Muffled mumbles*


*Holding both ears*
LALALALALALALALALA … I AM NOT LISTENING TO A LYNCHED PLAYER!!!! LALALALALALALALA

[Csargo]

I didn't vote GH, and am horrified by the poeple that did. He was detective wasn't he? Surely no-one would have that much free time on their hands to make such an elaborate fake.

Also, I'm not a mafia, so you can take me off that list :beam:

-edit-

Csar:


Sorry guys I haven't been very active in this I have some real life issues that have to be settled out before I can really get into this. I have read the thread over not very good I might add.
And next round he 'misses' the deadline.

What is this 'real life' of which you speak? lol fair enough, we all have stuff to do, but your abstaining and missing deadlines too much for me, so

Vote: Csar

Your kidding me right? That was the crappiest excuse for a vote for me I've ever seen. I've seen votes better for me by Sasaki and those were retaliation votes.:yes: I abstain once and miss a vote once and all of a sudden I am a mafioso that's bad logic on your part.:yes: If I'm not mistaken you missed a vote not long ago and probably more before that. The last one you missed you posted a big long speech to GH and still didn't vote. Come on don't penalize me for things that you've done yourself.


Personally I believe there are only two Mafiosi left. Not 4 as Sasaki try to make us believe. He is planting a seed of doubt as to whom they might be. Are there any obvious clues we are not seeing here? Who amongst these 4 would have chosen Sasaki as Henchman?
I am inclined to believe that Csar is our man…

Vote:Csar

Yeah that's almost as good as Masy's reason for voting for me.:thumbsdown: Your reason for voting is worse than Masy's.

Vote: Sigurd

[Sasaki Kojiro]

*Holding both ears*
LALALALALALALALALA … I AM NOT LISTENING TO A LYNCHED PLAYER!!!! LALALALALALALALA

Well it's up to the town whether they want to trust someone who won't even respond when someone points out the flaws in their logic. Neither GH nor Myrddraal have responded to my questioning them why GH said they didn't investigate Ignoramus when he had previously claimed they had. I'm not going to let that kind of thing stand. Make a claim, contradict yourself, and then not respond to any reasoning while making up excuses to vote other people? Come on. Sigurd has been voting people on poor reasoning all game, compare this to Cosa Nuova where he sniffed out Xiahou with ease.

[GeneralHankerchief]

If I reply, you're just going to make up some BS about it being a poor excuse, so I'm really not going to bother.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If I reply, you're just going to make up some BS about it being a poor excuse, so I'm really not going to bother.

LOL

Come on GH. These posts are how people judge our innocence or guilt. The way you three are avoiding discussion makes it obvious you have something to hide.

Myrd, you've been lurking this thread all day, I can see you now. Who did you "investigate" and do you have any answers to my questions?

[Myrddraal]

If I am killed in the same round as I investigates someone, do I get the result of the investigation?

I'd like to investigate Seamus please.
The detective does not get the investigation result if they die that round.

Seamus is guilty!

Before being executed, he killed Lemur, MRD, Byz Merc, RTWguru, Dutch_guy and Xiahou


Make of it what you will. Why have I taken so long to post? Because this is just too good to be true for the Mafia.

Firstly they leave me alive, because they know you will lynch me this round and that way our investigations will never be confirmed.

Secondly I hit a mafia this turn. It was a 1/4 chance, but still, it just looks so much like I'm mafia trying to cover for myself.

So I leave you with this: make of it what you will, I know what the right course to take is, but I don't know if you will take it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Good, that's what I wanted. Seamus now knows I've been telling the truth.

lol, Myrddraal, I like how it's "too good to be true" for the mafia that they decided to leave you alive (!) and that you also "found" one of them. Oh, those lucky, lucky mafia.

Also, it took you aaaaaages to write that, I was watching. Why didn't you vote for Seamus if he's so guilty?

[Husar]

Quote:Originally Posted by Silver Rusher
Quote:Originally Posted by Myrddraal
If I am killed in the same round as I investigates someone, do I get the result of the investigation?

I'd like to investigate Seamus please.


The detective does not get the investigation result if they die that round.

Seamus is guilty!

Before being executed, he killed Lemur, MRD, Byz Merc, RTWguru, Dutch_guy and Xiahou
Now there is a small problem because Seamus isn't executed yet...
And this time i didn't bother reconstructing the exact quotation structure, please forgive me.

edit: before I forget it:
Vote: Masy

[Crazed Rabbit]

Guys, re-read the begining of the story. There were a number of people in the guttering van from outside the town that came to visit whoever's the godfather here. Sasaki continues to try and sow confusion.

Oh, and to make sure it counts:
Vote: Seamus


Good, that's what I wanted. Seamus now knows I've been telling the truth.
So, you're both mafia. I knew that already.


lol, Myrddraal, I like how it's "too good to be true" for the mafia that they decided to leave you alive (!) and that you also "found" one of them. Oh, those lucky, lucky mafia.

GAH! The dead *whacks SK's corpse with a shovel* don't *another whack* talk! *whack*

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Oh, nice. "before being executed" eh?

You copied and pasted GH's faked pm to make sure it looked the same, but forgot it listed me as being executed.

Whoops!

[Myrddraal]

Vote:Seamus

PS. Interesting Sasaki, I hadn't noticed that myself. However, that's the pm, as it arrived in my inbox. You'll also notice that only the name is in red, whereas in your pm SR also put "is guilty" in red. It's clearly a copy and paste error, but it's not on my part...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

^^hahah, no answer. This is fun.

Vote Count:

Csar 2 (Sigurd, Masy)
Seamus 2(Myrddraal, Crazed Rabbit)
Sigurd 1 (Csar)
Masy 1 (Husar)

Not voting: 4

Be careful!

[Myrddraal]

I obviously edited as you were posting because you'll notice there is an answer.

[Husar]

I'm almost tired of voting.
After some long discussions in the underground, I came to the conclusion that we might either have a
- Masy, Sasaki, Seamus
or a
- CR, GH, Myrd

connection here, the first ones being the godfathers.
Given my record of successful votes I might be way off, but I just wanted to throw that in for discussion(you are welcome to take part, Sasaki:yes: ).

[Xiahou]

Seamus killed me? I'm horrified. :shame:

Now, before everyone votes to lynch him- I have to ask... what's the benefit of it? If he's lynched the godfather still gets 1 kill per round and the game continues, correct? And if Seamus turned up guilty to an investigation of only 1 detective- he cannot be the godfather, correct?

So wouldn't it be wiser to set aside his lynching for now and instead take on one of the other suspects?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote:Seamus

PS. Interesting Sasaki, I hadn't noticed that myself. However, that's the pm, as it arrived in my inbox. You'll also notice that only the name is in red, whereas in your pm SR also put "is guilty" in red. It's clearly a copy and paste error, but it's not on my part...

haha, ok, so Silver "accidently" said that Seamus was guilty AND he doesn't use consistant coloring for saying who is guilty? You can't get that kind of error copy pasting...it can't switch which words are colored or add "before he was executed" ~;)

Also, wow, you replied. What about the other stuff?

@Husar: Nice, I suppose you suspect masy & I are together because we haven't said anything to eachother this game? That could work, although it would be a littte careless on our part. CR GH and Myrd are much better bets :yes:

[Myrddraal]

haha, ok, so Silver "accidently" said that Seamus was guilty AND he doesn't use consistant coloring for saying who is guilty? You can't get that kind of error copy pasting...it can't switch which words are colored or add "before he was executed"

Also, wow, you replied. What about the other stuff?

Umm yes? So what is your point, you say I screwed up a copy and paste, I say SR screwed up a copy and paste. I know I'm right, but nothing will proove it, yet you still insist on pointing it out. Is this some kind of 'the more I post the more he will look guilty' theory?


@Husar: Nice, I suppose you suspect masy & I are together because we haven't said anything to eachother this game?

Yes it was careless. It's funny isn't it, how whenever GH or SR or I do something careless, it's 'proof' that we're mafia, but when you do something careless, you try to dismiss it as such.

EDIT:

After some long discussions in the underground, I came to the conclusion that we might either have a
- Masy, Sasaki, Seamus
or a
- CR, GH, Myrd

But unfortunately, due to a hasty lynch, I cannot confirm anything more. My job as a detective is over.

[Husar]

@Husar: Nice, I suppose you suspect masy & I are together because we haven't said anything to eachother this game? That could work, although it would be a littte careless on our part. CR GH and Myrd are much better bets :yes:
I think that because I suspected Seamus earlier, his statistics blame some random people, you confuse everyone and Masy, the Godfather sits back and makes bandwagon votes on innocent people while not contributing much.

[Husar]

Seamus killed me? I'm horrified. :shame:

Now, before everyone votes to lynch him- I have to ask... what's the benefit of it? If he's lynched the godfather still gets 1 kill per round and the game continues, correct? And if Seamus turned up guilty to an investigation of only 1 detective- he cannot be the godfather, correct?

So wouldn't it be wiser to set aside his lynching for now and instead take on one of the other suspects?
That is why I voted Masy based on my theory.

[Cowhead418]

I have to say this Mafia game has generated the most interesting discussion. Whether or not Sasaki is guilty, he sure knows how to spice a game up.

Also, I agree with Xiahou. If Seamus is guilty, lynching him will do us now good because he is not the godfather. His death would actually help the mafia, because there would be one less chance of lynching the godfather.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I have to say this Mafia game has generated the most interesting discussion. Whether or not Sasaki is guilty, he sure knows how to spice a game up.

Also, I agree with Xiahou. If Seamus is guilty, lynching him will do us now good because he is not the godfather. His death would actually help the mafia, because there would be one less chance of lynching the godfather.

Actually, this is wrong. The reason is, that if we lynch Seamus, then we buy two more rounds of time for the townspeople. That, and the fact that the Godfather no longer has a voting ally. One of the reasons why the mafia won in GF1 was because they had the numbers in the final round.

[Sigurd]

Actually, this is wrong. The reason is, that if we lynch Seamus, then we buy two more rounds of time for the townspeople. That, and the fact that the Godfather no longer has a voting ally. One of the reasons why the mafia won in GF1 was because they had the numbers in the final round.
This is true... I know from experience that being alone was what I feared the most as godfather.

Unvote:Csar
Vote Seamus

[Seamus Fermanagh]

[QUOTE=Myrddraal]Seamus, who's analysis of games has a reputation, should definitely have noticed that...
QUOTE]

Well, I had actually settle for Don C's idea to keep the voting even and have a runoff after more discussion. I'm leery of the Reveal, but was willing to listen to more discussion -- especially from you. Prole's vote change and the timing of Kommodus' vote closure ended it with a lynch. I wish it'd been delayed.

To: Crazed Rabbit.

I think Kommodus is going to make you actively re-vote to lynch me. If I recall an earlier post correctly, he doesn't let pre-murder votes "ride." I assure you I am not mafia, so I encourage you not to vote for my death, but you've had me in your sights for a couple of days now, so.....

[Crazed Rabbit]

I think Kommodus is going to make you actively re-vote to lynch me. If I recall an earlier post correctly, he doesn't let pre-murder votes "ride." I assure you I am not mafia, so I encourage you not to vote for my death, but you've had me in your sights for a couple of days now, so.....

Don't worry about it (see post 705).

And yes, I've been suspicous of you ever since Sasaki said you were the only one he thought was innocent.

Important Note: We want to kill Seamus off this round. He is definately mafia. Why? Becuase it gives the village more rounds to find the godfather, AND it takes away a voting ally of the godfathers.

CR

[Husar]

Ok, I can do the following and still follow my own theory:

Unvote: Masy
Vote: Seamus Fermanagh

:balloon2: :clown: :balloon3:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Umm yes? So what is your point, you say I screwed up a copy and paste, I say SR screwed up a copy and paste. I know I'm right, but nothing will proove it, yet you still insist on pointing it out. Is this some kind of 'the more I post the more he will look guilty' theory?

All these little things add up. You keep ignoring the big ones though. What about that bullited list showing how the pm was fake? And why did GH say Ignoramus was guilty




Yes it was careless. It's funny isn't it, how whenever GH or SR or I do something careless, it's 'proof' that we're mafia, but when you do something careless, you try to dismiss it as such.

Because you do something suspicious that would be a careless mafia action. My not talking to Masy would be careless mafia action, but it isn't suspicious on its own.



And yes, voting off a mafioso is in the benefit of the town. But Seamus isn't a mafioso...you'd better defend yourself with more vigour m8, the mafia is looking like they'll walk away with this one.


Vote Count:


Seamus 4 (Myrddraal, Crazed Rabbit, Sigurd, Husar)
Csar 1 ( Masy)
Sigurd 1 (Csar)

Not voting (Don corleone, Proletariat, Seamus, Divine Wind(can't vote))




Not voting: 4

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Look, do you really think I would have gone on about Seamus's innocence if we were mafia together, given that everyone thought I was guilty? That's like mafia 101

Also, I thought he was guilty until Sigurd awkwardly tried to frame him back in round 4. That was what clued me in to his innocence.





More dead people need to post. The current players are too heavily weighted towards mafia, it distorts things.

[Cowhead418]

Actually, this is wrong. The reason is, that if we lynch Seamus, then we buy two more rounds of time for the townspeople. That, and the fact that the Godfather no longer has a voting ally. One of the reasons why the mafia won in GF1 was because they had the numbers in the final round.That makes sense. Isolating the Godfather would certainly help the town.

About the situation, I agree with Husar that we either have Sasaki - Seamus- and Godfather together or GH - Myrd - CR working together. I'm not entirely sure whom to believe at this point. On one hand, it seems like Sasaki is trying to manipulate and deceive the town (he is notoriously good at this), but on the other hand it looks like GH and Myrd are pulling off an extremely clever ruse (Sasaki has pointed out several flaws in their 'evidence').

We won't find out anything from Myrd's status at this point. If he is the detective, then his ability to find the Godfather is gone. And now that both mafia grunts are dead, he is no longer a threat to the mafia - meaning that they can keep him alive and keep us wondering. But if he is in the mafia, then he obviously won't be killed and we are still left wondering.

[Husar]

More dead people need to post. The current players are too heavily weighted towards mafia, it distorts things.
I'm trying to be evenly balanced now, next in line is someone from the other supicious group.~;)
Except if someone can come in and give me any definitive proof why that would be a wrong thing to do.

The system works like this: we get Seamus now, so if Masy is the GF, then he is alone, then CR next, if he was GF, game ends, if not, Myrd is alone, if not, Masy, game ends or not, then Myrd is the only option left or we are screwed anyway.:sweatdrop:

2nd edit, reminds me of IF...THEN...ELSE, hehe

[Crazed Rabbit]

Uh, Husar, as Seamus is mafia, wouldn't that mean I was not mafia?

These are the four our two detectives have listed as possibly guilty:
Csar
Masy
Seamus
Husar

Seamus is going to be offed, leaving three. Personally, I don't think you're guilty Husar.

CR

[Husar]

Because you do something suspicious that would be a careless mafia action. My not talking to Masy would be careless mafia action, but it isn't suspicious on its own.
You not mentioning Masy is one of the reasons Masy almost never came up as a possible mafioso which would be very clever mafia action.
I was in bed already and actually stood up again only to say that
:help:


Uh, Husar, as Seamus is mafia, wouldn't that mean I was not mafia?

These are the four our two detectives have listed as possibly guilty:
Csar
Masy
Seamus
Husar

Seamus is going to be offed, leaving three. Personally, I don't think you're guilty Husar.

CR
You didn't get my system I fear.
I set up two likely mafia groups:
- Masy, Sasaki, Seamus
- CR, GH, Myrd
at the moment we have:
- Masy, Sasaki, Seamus
- CR, GH, Myrd
we would then go on eliminating a possible thread of each group like this:
- Masy, Sasaki, Seamus
- CR, GH, Myrd

- Masy, Sasaki, Seamus
- CR, GH, Myrd

- Masy, Sasaki, Seamus
- CR, GH, Myrd

- Masy, Sasaki, Seamus
- CR, GH, Myrd

But since I should be in bed already, I don't have the time to take mafia kills into consideration(you only come bofore Myrd because he is a possible detective).:bow:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Husar's posts are a good attempt at analysis of the situation. He is making good attempts at reasonable groupings and trying to articulate a "whack 'em both" strategy similar to the rationale used in Kommodus' Cosa Nouva to resolve the dispute between Kagemusha and Sasaki. Seems a little WW1-ish in its casualties approach, but might work.

If the Sasaki-Seamus-??? is the real threat the situation will flow as follows:

Sasaki is already dead (though not resting in peace). Seamus dies in round 7. This would leave the following alive:

Crazed Rabbit -- targeted by Seamus and therefore presumed innocent; listed as "probably innocent" by GH/Myrdraal
Csar -- on suspect list
Divine Wind -- investigated and cleared by GH/Myrdraal. but can't vote.
Don Corleone -- listed as "probably innocent" by GH/Myrdraal
Husar -- on suspect list
Masy -- on suspect list
Myrdraal -- detective
Proletariat -- investigated and cleared by GH/Myrdraal.
Sigurd -- investigated and cleared by GH/Myrdraal.

This leaves only 3 names on the hot list, with CR and Don C to follow. 7 voters would remain, with only the godfather to off for a townie win. Even stopping to lynch CR first should provide the townies with enough rounds to win, since the mafia wouldn't have enough time to make the requisite kills for control before this short list is finished. Myrdraal will be investigating, but can't be expected to find the Godfather solo.

Source = GH's Reveal


In the following rounds, we investigated the following:

Quote:

Round 1: Dutch_guy (innocent)
Round 2: Divine Wind (CoP) (innocent)
Round 3: Ignoramus (innocent)
Round 4: Sasaki Kojiro (just executed) (guilty)
Round 5: Sigurd Fafnesbane (innocent)
Round 6: Proletariat (innocent)

Now, judging by the people that Sasaki has gone after, combined with investigations, here is the status list of people with their status. "I" indicates confirmed innocent, "i" indicates probably innocent, and "D" indicates Detective.

Quote:

Masy
Csar
GeneralHankerchief (D)
Proletariat (I)
Don Corleone (i)
Seamus Fernanagh
Crazed Rabbit (i)
Cowhead418
Sigurd Fafnesbane (I)
Husar
Divine Wind (I)
Myrddraal (D)



If the GH-Myrdraal-CRis the real threat the situation will flow as follows:

Hanky is dead, CR follows after Seamus.

Since Rabbit, under this theory, can only be the GF, we have a townie win at that point. If it isn't a win, then you're relatively certain that the other theory is correct and have both the numbers and a short target list to weed through.

Sources = numerous Sasaki posts; Seamus' vote analysis post labeling Crazed Rabbit is a prime suspect.


However, I do not believe this bloodily simple strategy will work, despite the sound approach supporting it.

As you know, and largely don't believe, I claim innocence. Sasaki, despite his CR inspired sig, is on the correct path, if a bit too vociferous in his approach.

Now, since, following Sasaki's challenges (and my stunning stupidity in failing to eliminate the 2nd detective immediately in a game with no doctors :dizzy2: ) Myrdraal was so kind as to list me as "guilty" -- with an impressive list of kills (nice touch that) -- the guilt of General Hankerchief and Myrdraal was, for me, confirmed. I complement them on a beautifully brought off hoax, it was a nice touch including a believeable twist (despite Sasaki's gripes, I would agree it qualifies nicely, even if it is fiction).

It is possible that Myrdraal is the godfather and one of the lynchees was a mafioso who we got lucky and took out, but I don't think so. I don't think that even Hanky and Myrdraal would take that much of a risk. So the question is, did Hanky list the real godfather as "probably innocent," knowing that this would seem less threatening if his plan backfired or would he go for broke and list his godfather as innocent to shield them more fully? Let's review things.

Analyzing the potential "godfather:"

Crazed Rabbit: posts of modest length, not a lot of fluff. Voted for Drisos in round one (Drisos known by subsequent double deaths to be innocent). No named votes again until he's part of a small plurality for lynching Sasaki. Votes to kill Iggy. Skips one vote then votes for my death in two successive rounds (since I'm innocent, this bugs me, but I have cast suspicion on him and several others think me hinky now, following Myrdraal). Verdict: Distinct possibility.

Divine Wind: Hard to say from the voting -- since he would have known from early on that his votes would not count. He voted for Sigurd when he thought he could vote earlier, and it was his "vote" for Hanky that prompted Hanky's reveal...by happenstance? Hard to gauge. Verdict: Possible.

Don Corleone: drew flack early for overly newbie behavior. Posted and voted actively throughout -- no low profile. A difficult stance to take as a godfather. Voted for Drisos in runoff, then Phil, Sasaki, Iggy, EMFM, and lastly for Hanky. Since I know now that Hanky was guilty, and since Don changed his vote BACK to Hanky when he needn't, have, this clears him in my eyes. Verdict: Unlikely.

Proletariat: very low profile throughout, but this is her normal style. Voted: Abstain, no vote, Husar, no vote, Iggy, EMFM, Hanky. Her last minute -- literally -- vote switch prevented a tie and doomed GH, so for the same reasons as Don above, I view her as innocent. If she's mafia, then she's the donna of another family and the twist will kill us all. Verdict: Very unlikely.

Sigurd: hit-or-miss participation, though posts signficantly when active. Very prominent role in the votes on: Kommodus and Iggy, both of whose deaths were assured to all of us as a means to end the game. Voted: Abstain, Abstain, Kommodus, (Don C), Ignoramus, Proletariat, no vote, Seamus Fermanagh. All of his votes seem to be for lynching the innocent, and despite the fact that he was at his most active during the Kommodus-Sasaki-Iggy stretch, he voted late on the round where Sasaki was tapped. Verdict: Quite Possible.

Csar, Husar, Masy: On the "indeterminate" list for Hanky, my gut says they are just townies. A case could be made against any of them based on voting record, but Husar voting to take out Hanky would suggest innocence. Of all of them, Csar voted to lynch both known innocents and joined in the small plurality against Sasaki. Verdict: Csar = some possibility, Husar = unlikely, Masy = small possibility.



Also note: since I do not believe the Reveal, I do not believe the twist they proffer either. This means, the twist has yet to be revealed. Is there a hidden detective....possible, but not revealed as yet. Is there a 2nd godfather....also possible. Maybe the godfather had investigation powers to hunt for the detective...and found him. We'll see.

I actually think that our detective has been dead a while. So, don't expect any other reveals. Myrdraal will keep "investigating" for you, as he can't be murdered, but I say we should go for the GF slots and not waste time.

As to the twist:


But then a strange feeling entered his gut. He saw 4 shadowy figures dressed immaculately in suits standing next to a van marked "Vincenzo's Guttering", shaking hands.

since three mafiosi were introduced in the prologue along with the Guttering van, this means that at least one mafia-townie is acting with them. Unfortunately, that tells us little to guess the "twist" as there would have to be at least one from the town. Too many possibilites in Silver's creative mind to guess.


Vote: Crazed Rabbit as the slightly more likely of my 3 prime suspects.


Note to Silver: I, being innocent, would vehemently protest, lash out, and fight back to stop my unwarranted lynching. Let your write-up reflect this if it comes to it.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well isn't it convenient? All the 'support' Seamus has for me being guilty comes from him and Sasaki - who is a mafioso. A flim flam of shoddy reasoning that indicts the detectives (ironically, Seamus said he was waiting for confirmation from Myrd- he got it and now believes them both guilty) and all those they listed as innocent, while saying the three suspicious ones are not guilty.

Make no mistake; after Seamus is gone, it will be down to the wire for the mafia. We have three choices (Csar, Husar, Masy) and they will have still only one kill and nine people to kill.

They (Sasaki and Seamus) will do their best to misdirect as much as they can, in hopes that we as the town waste lynches, so that the Godfather can slowly kill us off.

For a while now they've been hyping a supposed mafia team of me, GH, and Myrd, (though earlier Sasaki was saying Sigurd was mafia. I suppose they want to get me lynched so they can take out one of their biggest...'critics' as it were) in order to try and get that into the subconcious, in a way, of the town. Recall Sigurd's expert maneuverings in Sasaki's first mafia game.

Also, from an earlier post of mine:


Sasaki Kojiro - 4 votes (GeneralHankerchief, Csar, Crazed Rabbit, Don Corleone)
Abstain - 3 (Dutch_guy, Myrddraal, Evil_Maniac From Mars)
Don Corleone - 2 votes (Xiahou, Husar)
Sigurd Fafnesbane - 1 vote (Divine Wind)
GeneralHankerchief - 1 vote (Sasaki Kojiro)
theRTWGuru - 1 vote (Cowhead418)
No Lynch - 1 vote (theRTWGuru)
No vote - 7 (Masy, Big King Sanctaphrax, Proletariat, Seamus Fernanagh, Ignoramus, Peasant Phill, Destroyer of Hope)

This makes Husar more suspicuous than Masy, who in turn is more suspicious than Csar (unless the mafia decided to set him up as being innocent by voting for Sasaki).
Edit: re-examination of the voting record for the Sasaki lynch round reveal Csar voted for Sasaki when he had only two votes, and when he could have easily voted for Don C. This makes Husar the most suspicious.

CR

[Husar]

This makes Husar more suspicuous than Masy, who in turn is more suspicious than Csar (unless the mafia decided to set him up as being innocent by voting for Sasaki).
Edit: re-examination of the voting record for the Sasaki lynch round reveal Csar voted for Sasaki when he had only two votes, and when he could have easily voted for Don C. This makes Husar the most suspicious.
Unless you are the Godfather and Sasaki was innocent.
Isn't it interesting to see how I often thought of you as innocent because you seemed to use the same logic as I did and even joined my vote? And now that I come up with you as a possible mafioso, you start to "see the light" and name me as most likely mafia?
Then again, I didn't expect anyone to say "go ahead and lynch me" either...
I might not even live after the next kills, but I would gladly join Sasaki and make the discussion more colourful from the grave.~;)

[Don Corleone]

If Mydraal/General Hank's detective story was real, 2 questions remain:

1) Why wasn't Myrdraal killed this round?

Either: A-Because killing him would prove his innocence and really point the finger at Seamus & Sasaki or
B- In fact he's in the mafia.

Among these, I go with "A". I really do suspect Sasaki more than just about anyone else, and the post about going back and investegating Sasaki after he was already dead... unnessary complication. First rule of a good lie is keep it as simple as possible. They could have just said they investegated him in round 1-3.

2) Why hasn't Myrdraal posted any new results? Wouldn't have gotten a report last night? :inquisitive:

He claims his role as detective is over, but is it? Was it a rule that both detectives have to be alive for either to be able to investegate? If so, this gives the mafia an incredible advantage, and the game becomes almost unwinnable for the townies. I don't think so.

So, I'm torn. I agree with Husar's theory of one lynch from each trinity, alternating, but I'm going for a different member in the trinity, just because I can't bring myself to think that my dear friend Seamus would be lying to me all this time... What's more, if that trinity does hold to be the real killers, then I suspect Seamus and Sasaki were selected as the hitmen, which leaves:

Unvote: No-lynch.
Vote: Masy.

[Kommodus]

Now look here GH, I believe that many of Sasaki's arguments are weak at best, but there's one thing I'd like an explanation for. Yes, I'm going to bring this up again:


Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Neither of them made an effort to prevent Ignoramus from being lynched, even though according to GH they had found him innocent





Originally Posted by General Hankerchief
#4: That is a lie. We never investigated Ignoramus, and Sigurd was only found innocent after Ig was lynched.





Originally Posted by General Hankerchief
Round 1: Dutch_guy (innocent)
Round 2: Divine Wind (CoP) (innocent)
Round 3: Ignoramus (innocent)
Round 4: Sasaki Kojiro (just executed) (guilty)
Round 5: Sigurd Fafnesbane (innocent)
Round 6: Proletariat (innocent)


You refused to give an explanation for this earlier, claiming that it would only give Sasaki an opportunity to make up some BS about how your excuse was poor. Well, I want to hear your excuse anyway - what does it matter what Sasaki thinks or says? Iggy was lynched in round 4 (the round you took off) with nary a comment from you or M.

Now I can understand you guys declining to protect him; such a move might've given away your identities to the mafia, as it's been mentioned as a detective-tell. What I can't understand is your claim to have never investigated him, after originally claiming that you did. It's an apparent contradiction I can't resolve.

Did you make a mistake in one of your posts? If so, your list of careless errors would be getting, er, a bit long. :inquisitive:

P.S. My pet theory for the time being is that there's another twist here besides the two detectives. To counterbalance the apparently pro-town twist, Silver may have introduced a pro-mafia twist as well. Something along the lines of allowing them to recruit a third mafioso to replace their fallen comrade, perhaps?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

If Mydraal/General Hank's detective story was real, 2 questions remain:

1) Why wasn't Myrdraal killed this round?

Either: A-Because killing him would prove his innocence and really point the finger at Seamus & Sasaki or
B- In fact he's in the mafia.

Among these, I go with "A". I really do suspect Sasaki more than just about anyone else, and the post about going back and investegating Sasaki after he was already dead... unnessary complication. First rule of a good lie is keep it as simple as possible. They could have just said they investegated him in round 1-3.

When this is all wrapped up Don, you will find that "B" was correct.

I agree with you that Sasaki has built a "rep" and that in these games most of us trust him about as far as we could comfortably spit a rat, but:

Were you a GF picking minions, would you take Sasaki? Bright, yes. Glib, yes. But also a player whose posting style guarantees he'll come under fire earlier rather than later. A person who can get lynched nearly as fast as the Lemur based solely on the play of previous games? A person who's only mafia strategy would have to be white noise? And then, to round out the team, this GF picks me? The guy who posts vote counts, trends, and activity scores? Okay, 10 out of 10 for style, but minus several million points for good thinking.

As to their lie, Hanky and Myrdraal are not in any way shape or form stupid. If you are going to lie and pull it off you need to:

1. be a sociopath like W.J. Clinton so that you actually believe your own lie. This is not workable, however, unless you're face-to-face.

2. lie by nudging one or two things off the truth path so that so much of it reads/feels true that the small changed slip by unnoticed. There was nothing small about Hanky's reveal.

3. pump out a lie Goebbels-style, as in the bigger the better. This strategy gains its credibility from a belief on the part of the viewer that nobody would be able to make something like this up -- "ts too big for that." And its not like he didn't have time. Hanky took off virtually all of round 4 to "recover" from his spat with Sasaki and didn't do more than bandwagon on the EMFM round. He nearly brought it off without a hitch.

Had Hanky survived, Husar would be dead, Cowhead murdered, I would still be the lynchee of the moment -- sorry, Myrdraal and I missed the GF, but here's the other mafiosi, and then the intact team would have murdered 2 for the clinch. It was a good plan, and was only partly foiled by Prole's last moment vote switch.

[Dutch_guy]

If Mydraal/General Hank's detective story was real, 2 questions remain:

1) Why wasn't Myrdraal killed this round?

Either: A-Because killing him would prove his innocence and really point the finger at Seamus & Sasaki or
B- In fact he's in the mafia.

Among these, I go with "A". I really do suspect Sasaki more than just about anyone else, and the post about going back and investegating Sasaki after he was already dead... unnessary complication. First rule of a good lie is keep it as simple as possible. They could have just said they investegated him in round 1-3.

2) Why hasn't Myrdraal posted any new results? Wouldn't have gotten a report last night? :inquisitive:

He claims his role as detective is over, but is it? Was it a rule that both detectives have to be alive for either to be able to investegate? If so, this gives the mafia an incredible advantage, and the game becomes almost unwinnable for the townies. I don't think so.

So, I'm torn. I agree with Husar's theory of one lynch from each trinity, alternating, but I'm going for a different member in the trinity, just because I can't bring myself to think that my dear friend Seamus would be lying to me all this time... What's more, if that trinity does hold to be the real killers, then I suspect Seamus and Sasaki were selected as the hitmen, which leaves:

Unvote: No-lynch.
Vote: Masy.


Make of it what you will. Why have I taken so long to post? Because this is just too good to be true for the Mafia.

Firstly they leave me alive, because they know you will lynch me this round and that way our investigations will never be confirmed.

Secondly I hit a mafia this turn. It was a 1/4 chance, but still, it just looks so much like I'm mafia trying to cover for myself.

So I leave you with this: make of it what you will, I know what the right course to take is, but I don't know if you will take it.

Now Don, that part I quoted was Myrddraal from a post in which he stated the following


If I am killed in the same round as I investigates someone, do I get the result of the investigation?

I'd like to investigate Seamus please.

The detective does not get the investigation result if they die that round.


Seamus is guilty!

Before being executed, he killed Lemur, MRD, Byz Merc, RTWguru, Dutch_guy and Xiahou


For reference, this was the post. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1292174&postcount=702)

:balloon2:

[Sir Moody]

Were you a GF picking minions, would you take Sasaki? Bright, yes. Glib, yes. But also a player whose posting style guarantees he'll come under fire earlier rather than later. A person who can get lynched nearly as fast as the Lemur based solely on the play of previous games? A person who's only mafia strategy would have to be white noise? And then, to round out the team, this GF picks me? The guy who posts vote counts, trends, and activity scores? Okay, 10 out of 10 for style, but minus several million points for good thinking.

actually if i was the gf i would pick sas... not because i think he can keep himself alive but because when the inevitable sas landslide starts you and your mafia henchman can jump on it - its an almost certain alibi especially if sas continues to post in a manor that makes him look more and more guilty but not confirming it

well thats how id do it but what do i know im mafia bait :skull:

[Dutch_guy]

actually if i was the gf i would pick sas... not because i think he can keep himself alive but because when the inevitable sas landslide starts you and your mafia henchman can jump on it - its an almost certain alibi especially if sas continues to post in a manor that makes him look more and more guilty but not confirming it

well thats how id do it but what do i know im mafia bait :skull:

Well, a good godfather strategem would be to pick both a high profile poster, and at the same time, a somewhat less high profile poster. So, in a way Sasaki would be a good choice again.

:balloon2:

[Don Corleone]

:dizzy2: :dizzy2: :dizzy2: :dizzy2: :dizzy2: :dizzy2:

This is almost too much to follow.... :dizzy2:

Okay, I've now gotten to a point where I suspect all, even the dead. Throwing everybody back into the potential candidate pool, I have to rank them:

Still alive: very suspicious.
Lynched: moderately suspicious, unless you're initials are S & K, then you're all but guaranteed to be mafia.
Murdered: Unless the mafia were really taking extreme chances, I have to favor the murder victims.

In this regard, Dutch_Guy's comments carry a lot more weight with me then most of the other ones. Kommodus and other undead posters, having been lynched, must be taken with a grain of salt. Now that doesn't mean that Dutch_Guy is correct, merely that he's honest, that is HE believes what he's saying.

My defense of Seamus above would be a syllogism, as I find CR equally as dear a friend and by voting for Masy, I make it less likely that Seamus will be lynched. What's more, a vote for Masy is a vote for that team.

Unvote: Masy
Vote: Seamus

Forgive me, Seamus. :shame: If I find that Dutch-Guy is framing you, in cahoots with Myrdraal, I'll find a way to make it up to you.

[Dutch_guy]

Forgive me, Seamus. :shame: If I find that Dutch-Guy is framing you, in cahoots with Myrdraal, I'll find a way to make it up to you.

How is it I'm framing Seamus ? I was merely reposting one of the most important posts of this session, and it was to answer one of your questions.

:balloon2:

[Kommodus]

You know, in the absence of GH's response to the Ignoramus paradox, I'm beginning to change my mind about this whole thing. I take back everything I've said about the "stupid" townspeople in this game. Whoever they are, the mafia have done an excellent job with their deception. In all honesty I haven't followed this thread with as much attention as I might've had I remained alive.

If GH and Myrd are mafia, they have truly cooked up an elaborate hoax. Let's have a look at the objections Sasaki has made to the claim.



They both investigate me round four when only one of them needed to, if they were detectives they would have thought of that


GH responded that he and Myrd were simply used to doing investigations together by that point. This is entirely possible, but if so, it's a careless mistake that allowed the mafia a chance to attack the "reveal." This strikes me as uncharacteristic of GH.



The phone number is American (like GH) while Silver is British


True AFAIK, but I've learned not to read too much into this sort of thing. Just because the phone number is American doesn't mean SR couldn't have used it. American TV/stories making their way to Britain and all that.



If GH was detective he wouldn't have outed Myrddraal and put him at risk


This doesn't carry much weight to me either. I still think the PM could've been interpreted to mean they both had to be revealed at the same time.



Neither of them made an effort to prevent Ignoramus from being lynched, even though according to GH they had found him innocent


It's not so much this point itself, but GH's response to it that provides Sasaki's strongest point. He does appear to contradict himself in claiming that he didn't investigate Iggy after originally claiming that he did.

The question is, why? If he were telling a lie, I would've thought he'd have tried harder to keep it consistent. But then again, could this really be just another careless mistake on the part of the (former) detective? Something's wrong here.



The pm doesn't mention that they aren't allowed to post screenshots to prove their role, which it would if it were genuine


This argument is a non-factor; it's this sort of weak, hollow argument that makes me suspicious of Sasaki.



"An extra detective" doesn't qualify as a twist. Also, if this is a twist, what is the meaning of the bolded words in some of Silver's descriptions?


Again, this argument is hollow. Sasaki is not the arbiter of what qualifies as a twist. Besides, it could be only part of the twist - as I stated earlier, there may be a pro-mafia twist that counterbalances it.

The only thing is... Silver stated in the opening post that opposing the mafia there would be "a detective." He would know this would be interpreted as only one. It does strike me as odd that he would deliberately mislead the town that way. :inquisitive:



GH hadn't gotten enough votes for him to really need to claim


This doesn't mean much either, since it's entirely possible that GH believed he had enough votes to warrant it. Still, that would be yet another careless mistake from the "detective." GH, I'm sure you realize how this looks - like perhaps you were just waiting for the right moment to spring this hoax?

Add to this Myrddraal's possible mistake in accusing Seamus of being guilty:



Seamus is guilty!

Before being executed, he killed Lemur, MRD, Byz Merc, RTWguru, Dutch_guy and Xiahou


Sasaki pointed out the obvious "before being executed" snafoo. A mistake on Silver Rusher's part? I wouldn't put it past him, since copy-and-paste errors have given him problems in the past. But in addition to this, the quoted PM doesn't follow the formatting/style of GH's quoted PM indicating Sasaki's guilt. The colors/font weights are off. More careless inconsistencies? It's starting to stretch credulity.

Then we have a relationship of Sasaki to Seamus. Sasaki was bringing up suspicions of Seamus earlier in the game; only later did he switch and start saying Seamus was innocent. Were the original accusations a ploy to provide cover for his fellow mafioso? I doubt it; that is a dangerous strategy for the mafia to pursue. Or is the twist that Seamus was recruited later in the game? Or are both truly innocent?

There are two ominous signs in Silver Rusher's latest kills.



He saw 4 shadowy figures dressed immaculately in suits standing next to a van marked "Vincenzo's Guttering", shaking hands.




Whoever you choose to execute now will be strangled to death. We can't get this wrong!


If there are four mafiosi left, then after an incorrect lynch and a mafia kill, there would be four mafiosi and four townspeople. If there are actually two mafia grunts left, then they could still kill two people, and the mafia would outnumber the villagers, giving them a victory. Divine Wind's warning rings true.

Yet how could there really be four mafiosi left? The game was supposed to start with only three, and it seems likely that at least one has been lynched (either Sasaki or GeneralHankerchief). Could the "twist," whatever it is, have even more to do with this?

So now I've been confused by both the mafia and by Silver Rusher himself. I think it will take his end-game revelations to make sense of this.

P.S. If I were still alive, I'd probably pick Crazed Rabbit as the Godfather. He's definitely on the side of GH and Myrddraal, whose credibility is looking a little tattered. But there's a good chance I'm wrong about this. This is why I try to avoid the usual analysis methods and go for something numerical; hopefully I'll have another go at that next game.

[Don Corleone]

How is it I'm framing Seamus ? I was merely reposting one of the most important posts of this session, and it was to answer one of your questions.

:balloon2:

I didn't say you were. I said IF you were....Clearly, I cannot know that until the game has been resolved.

[Crazed Rabbit]

P.S. If I were still alive, I'd probably pick Crazed Rabbit as the Godfather. He's definitely on the side of GH and Myrddraal, whose credibility is looking a little tattered. But there's a good chance I'm wrong about this. This is why I try to avoid the usual analysis methods and go for something numerical; hopefully I'll have another go at that next game.

I'm afraid you are wrong. I am neither mafia nor godfather. You are right about me being on the side of GH and Myrd.
Why? I believe Sasaki to be mafia; they have been held at one kill per night ever since he got killed. Had they been able to kill two per night and done so, they would have been much closer to winning. This is the main point of my innocence. His continued involvement and the arguments he makes are mostly hollow and designed to cause useless lynches.

If you want proof of how I act as a mafia, check out Sasaki's mini-game, and compare that to how I acted as a detective in Mafia III.

You say, with some evidence, that GH and Myrd have a slightly tattered credibility. But compare that with Sasaki, who throughout the game has thrown out accusations of who is the mafia. It's interesting to watch them change as time passes.

CR

[Dutch_guy]

I didn't say you were. I said IF you were....Clearly, I cannot know that until the game has been resolved.

True, however I find implying I might be framing anyone bad enough as it is :2thumbsup:


If you want proof of how I act as a mafia, check out Sasaki's mini-game, and compare that to how I acted as a detective in Mafia III.

Common knowledge after quite a few mafia games is that a good player (be it a mafia member, detective or townie) is able to keep on posting in a same style - or change it if there is a need for it.

I'm simply saying that people learn, and I doubt that were you a mafia member you'd act the same as you did back then.

:balloon2:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You are right about me being on the side of GH and Myrd. Why? I believe Sasaki to be mafia; they have been held at one kill per night ever since he got killed. Had they been able to kill two per night and done so, they would have been much closer to winning. This is the main point of my innocence.


Would they really have wanted to prove me innocent though? They'd probably be lynched by now if they had killed two people that night. I practically forced them to kill only one. The fact that there was only one kill doesn't prove my guilt or my innocence

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Then we have a relationship of Sasaki to Seamus. Sasaki was bringing up suspicions of Seamus earlier in the game; only later did he switch and start saying Seamus was innocent. Were the original accusations a ploy to provide cover for his fellow mafioso? I doubt it; that is a dangerous strategy for the mafia to pursue. Or is the twist that Seamus was recruited later in the game? Or are both truly innocent?

Seamus was originally on my secondary suspect list, along with Myrddraal and Don C. Sigurd was originally on my primary list and has been acting extremely suspiciously, so when he attempted to frame Seamus at the same time as he framed Ignoramus (the claim was that ignoramus had "accidently" sent the pm to sigurd instead of Seamus) and there were other murmurs of suspicion cast his way I knew he was innocent. Crazed Rabbits pursuit of him and Myrddraal s poorly fabricated pm confirm this.





There are two ominous signs in Silver Rusher's latest kills.

If there are four mafiosi left, then after an incorrect lynch and a mafia kill, there would be four mafiosi and four townspeople. If there are actually two mafia grunts left, then they could still kill two people, and the mafia would outnumber the villagers, giving them a victory. Divine Wind's warning rings true.

Yet how could there really be four mafiosi left? The game was supposed to start with only three, and it seems likely that at least one has been lynched (either Sasaki or GeneralHankerchief). Could the "twist," whatever it is, have even more to do with this?

Crazed Rabbit wouldn't bother arguing against Husar's plan if the game was going to end after this round. The twist must be something else.



So now I've been confused by both the mafia and by Silver Rusher himself. I think it will take his end-game revelations to make sense of this.


He must be enjoying this no end.

[Kommodus]

I'm afraid you are wrong.

Probably.


they have been held at one kill per night ever since he got killed. Had they been able to kill two per night and done so, they would have been much closer to winning.


Irrelevant; in Godfather 1 GeneralHankerchief and Co. started this ploy as early as the second round and still won. The mafia are pretty close to winning here as well, after just six rounds. Is it more important to kill quickly, or to successfully deceive? You be the judge.


This is the main point of my innocence. His continued involvement and the arguments he makes are mostly hollow and designed to cause useless lynches.

I myself pointed out that most of his arguments are hollow and false-sounding. You don't have to remind me.


If you want proof of how I act as a mafia, check out Sasaki's mini-game, and compare that to how I acted as a detective in Mafia III.

And that sounds about like the sort of thing a mafioso would appeal to. :inquisitive:


You say, with some evidence, that GH and Myrd have a slightly tattered credibility. But compare that with Sasaki, who throughout the game has thrown out accusations of who is the mafia. It's interesting to watch them change as time passes.

That's about par for the course for Sasaki. He accuses/votes for everyone in turn, hoping to get responses that will yield clues. Of course, that could be just a cover - deliberately acting the same way he always does, that is.

What I can't figure out is why, if GH and M are detectives, they left so many openings through which their claim could be attacked. They'd have to do some pretty careless things to leave this many holes in their story. Most of Sasaki's arguments against them are weak, true, but some are not.

Basically, if they're detectives, they aren't exactly doing a bang-up job. (No offense GH and M; you may be doing great jobs as mafia!) I'm still waiting to hear a credible response to the Ignoramus puzzle.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

meh, I guess I'll leave out the weaker arguments next time. I put them in their for additional effect, but it seems they've just discredited me and allowed the mafia to ignore the stronger points.

I honestly thought the phone number thing was very convincing though.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

How is it I'm framing Seamus ?

YOU are not.

[Silver Rusher]

*****Voting Closed*****

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Upon my death, the town census will read as follows:

CR, Csar, DW, Don C, Husar, Masy, Myrdraal, Prole, Sigurd.

Divine Wind, by role, cannot vote.

Therefore, you will have 8 voters.

If there were 4 mafia and Seamus is innocent, it is reasonable to assume at least 1 is dead (Sasaki or Hanky). The three remaining could double kill, leaving you with three mafiosi and three townies. The game is then over (3-3 tie, no lynch, add 2 murders, done), unless Divine Wind is one of the mafiosi and you can still manage a 3-2 vote. Even then, you'd have to get it right every time with no slip ups or you're toast. I'd rate this one 90/10 mafia favor.

If there were 3 mafia and Seamus is innocent, it is reasonable to assume at least 1 is dead (Sasaki or Hanky). This is a challenge for the mafia, since they are still limited to one kill and the numbers would be 5-2. This leaves a two rounds to get the GF or his henchie (otherwise its 2 murders, 2 lynches, mafia lynches remaining voter, mafia lynches CoP) -- but still provides the mafia a chance to bluster and obfuscate while weeding the numbers. This is 50/50 town v mafia.

Your only strong scenario is if I am mafia, since that leaves you with a 7-1 advantage over the GF. At one murder per swat, the GF has to survive three rounds of voting while doing all the murders -- a lot tougher. Town wins 70/30 here.

Should you let me live?

If I'm the 4th mafiosi, leaving me alive would still leave only 2 remaining -- and 1 kill to cope with -- odds of winning very similar to the 3 mafia/Seamus innocent scenario above, with one additional (admittedly somewhat chancy) shot at the godfather. Remember, even if Myrdraal IS the consumate detective, I cannot be the godfather.

If I'm the 3rd mafiosi, leaving me alive changes NEITHER the number of mafia votes you'll be facing nor the number of kills, but provides you with an additional shot at the godfather.


Ultimately, I don't think you improve your odds of winning by killing me, even if I were guilty. And, since I am not mafia, I am absolutely certain of this.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Re: Ignoramus paradox.

I claim game fatigue. Believe it if you want, but it is the truth. Ignoramus was in fact investigated in that round, but during my fifteen zillionth defense against Sasaki's attacks, I just honestly forgot that we investigated him. That investigation was a pretty minor one anyway, as it was the round where Sigurd accused Kommodus. Nothing else of note really happened, and Myrd and I didn't want to fall in the trap of investigating solely based on posts. Here's pretty much how our discussion before the investigation went:

Myrd: "I don't know, Ignoramus has been acting weird. Want to investigate him?"

GH: "Well, he's acted like that in previous games, but why not? It's good cover anyway."

Satisfied?

EDIT:


Hanky took off virtually all of round 4 to "recover" from his spat with Sasaki and didn't do more than bandwagon on the EMFM round. He nearly brought it off without a hitch.

I was actually the first person to vote for EMFM. So don't try that argument.